Conqueror Getting Nerfed

[@MattBraynardChannel]

It wasn't broken to begin with as demonstrated with win rate. Did it do more damage? Yes. Did it do less valuable, more repairable damage with fire? Yes.

[@MechZilla]

Not really sure how I feel about it, tbh. Although raising the amount of time between heal charges is just...silly. It's not addressing the problem that's infuriating people so much - the neverending HE spam they throw. I watched a video on it a couple days ago - it had a Montana that got nailed at the beginning of the battle and was burned down in roughly 4 minutes. And the guy driving it made all the right moves, did everything perfectly against it and a concerted attack from a CV (I think it was a Flamu video). And still got burned down in 4 minutes. That's jacked. This solves nothing, but opens up another "pay to win" screaming fit.

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

If you kill the ship in between heal recharges, she won't be spamming HE at you.

[@das294bs]

jsm666 but it can disengage easily with its concealment so, useless "nerf", imo the main issue are just those 12 x16" guns...they should remove them.

[@crucisnh]

It was a Flamu video. I watched the same one. It was his Conqueror rant video, and he wasn't wrong. The Montana did nothing wrong, but there wasn't a bloody thing he could have done to stop the enemy Conqueror from burning him to the waterline. Even with all the anti-fire upgrades and skills, it would have only slowed his eventual fiery death, not prevented it.

[@Sangtrone]

LaMortEtLamour Exactly this. Even WGs stats showed that a large percentage of the Conqueror's damage was on battleships. And the Montana is better in almost every category except for raw damage and survival rate. Most of the Conqueror's damage gets healed. If you take that Flamu video and replace the Monty with a Conq the latter would have died much faster because it has terrible armor. It might not take many citadels but you can pen it from almost every angle. If it gets out of position like that Monty, it's dead. Get any focus fire at all and you melt.

[@seidlscirocco]

Have you seen the same video? He is spoted first by Fletcher and then by Kagero and because he is burning the range extend because fire. Im agree with flamu. you dont need any skill to aim correctly for citas or superstructure. just fire HE and hit do high dmg and set 2-3 fires per salvo. Its so easy to play with that concealment. And hountig BBs is job for DDs. And multiple methods are nothing if you are permanently on fire every salvo. maybe that repair party from october revolution would be nice to have :-D

[@TK-fk4po]

I think this is good but it would be better to raise the citadel and decrease the fire chance.

[@MichaelLaing71]

You want to turn her in the the Montana basically, reduce fire chance and cap her heal slightly but raising the citadel would be a huge nerf.

[@MichaelLaing71]

I have no problems nerfing the ship. It is over powered. I would reduce it's heal, would reduce its fire chance to 41-45% and make sure it only has the 457mm guns. To be honest the concealment isn't as big a thing as most people think as it isn't a ship I would want to really get into close combat. From what you just said you want it to have every negative from every tier 10 ship.

[@TK-fk4po]

Michael Laing Mandating 18" guns is a good idea too as it will be harder to land as many shells and thus will decrease the fire chance.

[@krostouin]

Agreed especially for the citadel. This line takes very rare citadels, even in close range broadside. We already have the boring german BB to kill with HE and pen. So yeah, rise it up a little. But it wont happen, because it’s too obvious for WG. Same for HE fire chance..

[@rustknuckleirongut8107]

I like playing the Conqueror, but at the same time I have never seen it as a problem killing it when you have one on the other team. The British deserve a decent ship that doesnt require some weird play style like the Minotaur and Belfast.

[@jensfredriksvensson]

It is a good thing that all BBs are at the same winrate. It doesnt mean what you think. It means that it is your skill in that BB that matters! This is just good!

[@sneeps]

My biggest gripe with the Conqueror, and most of the British line for that matter, is the HE meta they bring. Its not a fun mechanic, you cant mitigate the damage you take. sure you can heal it back but you cant fix the modules. Ive been unlucky enough to gain the full attention of a Conqueror in my Iowa before. First HE salvo knocked out BOTH of my front turrets. Second salvo set me on fire in 3 places and destroyed half my AA guns. Then of course i repair and get dive bombed a few seconds later for 2 more fires. I run an AA build on my Iowa and if i run into a Conqueror or Lion i can kiss my AA goodbye. I already run into aircraft carriers scarcely so whats the point?

[@spacecadet2827]

i laugh every time i get a citadel with HE. and then i apologise to the other player because it's dumb. i also always apologise after dealing a detonation. it's a dumbass mechanic whether it's me or someone else

[@noricardas1]

Exactly what i have a problem with them, conq has once knocked out my friedrich der grose guns, second salvo from cruiser near him destroyed them, all of my aa is gone soon too, just fun. Angled or not, conq HE does 6K or sometimes even 20K on an angled ship, i do 2K back with german dispersion...

[@gamelard1963]

well any HE with any BB will destroy an ass ton of AA. ive been testing that recently but of course the damage is way low compared to the british BB's

[@Francois424]

As CBT players will tell you (beside cruisers players that enjoyed that) we really tried, we tried SO MUCH to have WG nerf the fire part of the HE shells, to a point they told us to go and play cruisers if we didn't like it, that it was working as intended. Now that BBs can get in on that absurd mechanic, NOW it's not good and ship needs to be nerfed *shakes head* I will ABUSE the hell out of this ship when I get it. And I don't feel dirty about it. I just want fires to be removed from the HE shells, Create a third shell that lays down fires instead, or something like that.

[@DubyaD04]

Fires should come from one shell, AP (Armored Piercing High Explosive). When they penetrate and do critical or more damage, then they their fire % chance should be applied. HE/Fire mechanic is nothing but a lazy mechanic for those special players that refuse to learn how to properly aim with AP to do damage against a BB or anything other ship for that matter. I'm probably going to free xp to the Conqueror to play and abuse it's easiness to play with the range extender so I can sit back beyond the Yamato's reach and laugh at them with the laser like precision it's guns have! LOL

[@milionST]

Community: RN BBs HE is broken! Those ships cannot be citadelled or damaged! WG: Say that again? Wha... Community: HE on British BBs is broken. Pls nerf. Where's the citadel?! HALP! WG: Wait, what? Community: (inhales deeply) RN BB HE IS OP AS FUCK!!! THOSE SHIPS CANNOT BE DAMAGED!!! WG: Mkay, we will nerf a bit heal and concealment. It's all good now. Community: ...

[@fendelphi]

About 70% of the ship is covered in 32mm armor, which can be penned by 203mm HE and above(or overmatched by the Yamato AP shells). If you are not dealing damage to it, you are not shooting it correctly. It has the worst dispersion of any tier 10 BB. We were told that this ship would be a "BB killer 1vs1", so people should stop expecting any other results when engaging it like that(and even then the Yamato could possible "ambush it", by holding it's fire and wait for the Conqueror to pop up, the fire a salvo and shave off 20% of it's health). Use Cruisers to gang up on it, or combine HE shells(to knock out AA) and torpedo bombers to punish it's bad torpedo belt and bad long range AA. It does not have spotter planes, hydro or any other utility consumable, so a torpedo based DD can also make a mess out of it. There are so many ways to deal with it, but people are stuck on old meta and refuse to use the counters.

[@nonofyabidnez5737]

The real issue is the absurd fire chance. Now people will be even more likely to sit at max range to go through their heals slowly... great

[@taipan185]

Dude its only like 5% difference between it and the GK. The only reason its been such an issue is because its good HE was highlighted prior to its release and people have been using the shit out of it which is in contrast to the typical BB play. In case you've haven't noticed there has been a significant swing in the use of HE across all BB's since the Conq's release. Hell I did 70k fire damage with my Tirp just the other day, the biggest issue with the Conq is its Detect range coupled with the heal. People only gripe about fires because they are just outright annoying as shit.

[@tdw30630]

Was long-ranging dueling a conqueror in my Zao yesterday. He set 2 fires in 1 salvo. I used damage control. His very next salvo set 3 fires. Plus, with that HE damage in addition to fires, let's just let everyone ponder about my fate.

[@taipan185]

I'll grant you that much, the HE's initial damage coupled with the subsequent fires is a pain in the ass for sure. That being said I have zero issue with the fire chance particularly when you consider a cruiser can do exactly the same thing to you all while dropping in and out of detect from 18km away and with far greater accuracy. What really muddies the waters here is how truly bent over people can get by RNG, if hits were based on nothing but the players skill accuracy wise then Id be right there with you, but its not. The number of games I have had where I have landed 40+ hits with HE and only got 4-5 fires is frigging mind boggling. That's a fire chance of 10% or less, it defies belief. I absolutely hate the random handicapping of players just because of some fucked up dice roll, case in point those bullshit detonations people suffer in the opening minutes of a match, we all know that kind of thing is lame as hell. Shit its the only thing I have ever seen in any game where the killer will actually apologize to the victim lol

[@daysteppr]

i regularly have games in my zao with 90+ hits and 2 fires. flags, demo expert and i cant set a damned fire. I have NEVER gotten witherer in my zao and ive played 50 games with it.

[@VUO4E]

there's no fucked up 'dice roll', there's more to it than that - we just don't know it. I've had the very same HE experience. But playing against those RN BB's, that's something else. I take 3 fires from 1 salvo and the shells haven't even landed yet. I think the fire chance percentage is nothing more than a single variable in an slightly more complicated formula.

[@LurifaxDK]

Need "Damage recieved" and "Modules destroyed" to be taken into consideration as well. Still does not deal with the undefendable HE spam.

[@Elven_Red]

Hey Notser you could have mentioned another piece of data they had in there - the Conqueror is doing most of it's damage to BBs, which most likely relates into the higher average damage it has

[@jasmith4242]

I think having all the BB's so close in winrate is a good thing. That would mean its balanced.

[@Ushio01]

The only reason the conqueror has highest damage and survival is that it can spam HE at max range and get 2+ fires every salvo. All they do with these nerfs is punish those conqueror players who do push and tank. While the long range HE spammers will continue doing lots of damage, surviving every match and losing 50% of the time.

[@del7723]

Absolutely. I dont understand how he can not see that. Balanced Ships are vital to fun experience. I dont want to choose my ship based on the global win rate...

[@Lt5K1TZ]

Were you even listening to the video? Yes, the win rates are very close, which is normally a good thing, but look again at the survival rates. Montana, Kürfurst and Yamato are all in the low to mid 40's while Conqueror is at 52%. What this means is that battleships have little to no impact on the battle. So not only is Conqueror's survivability overpowered, especially since Yamato has the best armor in the game and Kürfurst has the highest health and comparable armor to Yamato, but battleships are irrelevant most of the time in tier X battles.

[@crucisnh]

I agree. IMO, that was the single dumbest thing that Notser said in this video. It SHOULD be a good thing that the WRs of all the tier 10 BBs are so close.

[@Anubis31337]

Why do people fail to realize that a winrate of close to 50% is ALWAYS going to be the case if the ship is fairly common and the longer the stats are measured. If both teams have the specific ship there will always be a win and a loss for the statistic. It doesn't say anything about the power level. Let's say the conqueror would actually be so overpowered that it always destroys every single ship in the enemy team then in the end there would always be 2 conquerors fighting each other and one would win and one would lose. So 50% winrate for those conquerors. That those two ships got 11 kills each and 750k dmg does not change that fact. So looking at average winrate means nothing. Average damage and survival does. Actually you could argue that a winrate above 50% means that in those cases when the ship is the only one in the game, it is more likely to win. So the impact for battleships on the winrate for their team is actually quite substantial, considering that all of them have above 50%.

[@georgahlers1694]

Maybe taking the 16inch guns away would be an better option to nerf the Conqueror

[@ambrosemcdonald1753]

okay then give it radar back

[@stoev2606]

I completely agree with that remove the 12 guns leave it only with the 8, that way players will actually think about using ap on the ship and not just spam he at 20km away, no wonder the average winrate is so low they just play selfishly and never help the team

[@jacobtanjinghong]

Bzzz error 404 logic not found bzzz

[@crucisnh]

If you can't find the logic, it must be because you lack a brain, because the logic is crystal clear. Fewer guns means fewer hits means fewer chances to start fires. Larger guns mean longer reloads, which means lower RoF, which also means fewer chances to start fires. Now, yes, the 18" guns have a higher fire chance than the 16" guns, but that could be fixed too.

[@jacobtanjinghong]

crucisnh LOL I was referring to the guy asking radar to be given back to the Conqueror but the reply thingy didn't appear so it made it seem as if I was talking about the reduced number of guns. I'm all in for Conqueror nerfs, in fact I hate Battleships with a passion this was my bad sorry for triggering you XP

[@malguskerensky]

Thank you for explaining this in detail. The huge gap in heal windows is a death sentence to this ship as well as tier 8 and tier 9 as well, if this goes to the line. Why didn't WG just reduce the amount of heals, not when it can heal. Of course the real issue is that WG has to re-balance HE rounds across the board; but this isn't their way.

[@0utro90]

I personaly thik that they should nerf the HE damage/HE penetration.Fire chance is fine but not if you get hit for 15k with those fires , i mean whats the reason to use AP when you can do almost the same damage regardless of angle but thats my opinion

[@fendelphi]

HE for BBs in general could use an overhaul. IMO, HE is a reliable, low damage support shell. It will never ricochet, it can knock out several modules and it can set fires. No need for BBs to have high alpha on them as well. And the fire mechanic should be changed as well. Reduce the damage and make it more of a debuff that decrease accuracy. So if a BB has 2 fires, it is much harder for it to hit smaller targets(DDs and Cruisers) at longer ranges, and even at mid range, several shells will miss.

[@jvhoef5372]

I like the idea of fire doing something other than just damage, have you posted it on the WG forums at all?

[@fendelphi]

You are welcome to copy/paste it.

[@rogerwilco2]

I think the really interesting stat would be to see if people have different win rates in this ship compared to their other battleships. I think that's much more telling than the other numbers, as a noob-friendly ship could attract the lowest skill players as well, or vice-versa.

[@dietmardumersac5678]

The battleship-concealment comes from the bigger space you can paint and conceal that way.

[@austinperrigin9044]

easy fix to brit line : leave concealment same, heal the same, cut the gun range substantially make it to where they have to get very close. to make them have to be cautious and not be nearly forced to play passive like these changes will DO

[@rrm2305]

Excellent Notser I can see by those stats that the Montana clearly needs a nerf

[@captain_dilbert1863]

What I hate about fire is that I can get hit by 3 or more HE shells from a T10 BB and they start a fire and the damage from that fire is the same as one started by a single T6 DD HE shell. How on earth does that make any sense?.

[@jadenmental]

I don't mind the 1/4 HE. Or the stupidly low conceal, or the troll-heal. The HE firechance however is the major gripe I have. That, and maybe the AP effect on DD's.

[@jensfredriksvensson]

T10 is all about Team play, it is incredibly hard to carry in T10 no matter what ship you are in. This is a good change. It is small enough change that i wont change anything drastically. The concealment is the big thing here. This will make it more possible to press the ship into continuous engagements which it does very poorly in. It will move more towards US BBs with making them hard to play well but not borderline OP as it is now. For god sake i cant hunt down a conq in my Des moines because he goes stealth when I try to push him and then he re-engages when his heal is up and he is back to full health.

[@MichaelLaing71]

Currently on the Monarch which is a very different ship to the rest of the British line (except the QE) and hoping to be on the Lion by the weekend. Sad that they are nerfing (cause I really wanted to see what the Conqueror was like) the British line but I can understand. I do wander if good players have given an artificial high damage number for the Conqueror. I am playing through the British line pretty quickly but I expect a lot of good players may have just XP'd up to the tier 10. Also it takes time for people to work out how to play against the Conqueror and not spam HE at it (which still happens). What I don't like though is the idea that this is going to be a pay to survive ship. I can understand them raising the premium to 110 but I would have thought 140 or 150 would be more practical. Also reducing the fire change would make a difference. One thing I would disagree with though, whilst a BB may have the highest chance of setting fires, you then have to take into consideration the length of time it takes to reload. In so many British ships I set fires first and the enemy puts them out straight away but then a cruiser or destroyer then sets them alight again whilst I am reloading and basically get all the fire damage for themselves.

[@tdbraun6837]

I'd like to see what effects these nerfs have, but I agree the chance of causing fires the Conqueror has will probably need to be reduced some as well, down from absurdly high to just high.

[@soulbite4897]

Fires need redone maybe to something along the lines of: The caliber of shell causing the fire determines the scale/damage of the fire, while all ships have a similar chance to cause fire. So fire from a BS shell causes a large fire or "3 fires" while a DD can spam smaller shells with same chance of fire but causes a smaller fire or only "1 fire" from a shell. Conqueror nerfs seem to be in the wrong direction and likely over the top and passing the nerf down the line affecting the special of the British BBs the repair party is typical and at least at initial look a dumb way to go about it

[@chipsterb4946]

The really funny thing about these nerfs is that it makes the best counter to a Conqueror ... another Conqueror. When do you need Repair the most? When you've been set on fire, used D.C., then get lit up again. It's very difficult to get citadels on Conqueror so you might as well use that HE with ridiculous fire chance PLUS great alpha damage. Another interesting point is that BBs need high skill point captains now more than ever. If you don't spec Concealment Expert, the Brit BBs out-spot you by miles. However, now you need Fire Prevention more than ever. Basics of Survivability is another 3 points, so now we're up to 17 points without even trying. Finally, there is Jack Dunkirk. With him, Jack of All Trades reduces the cool down time of ALL consumables by 10% instead of the usual 5%. Reducing the cool down of the standard Repair by 9 seconds doesn't seem like that much, but 18 seconds can a long time when you are on fire or just getting hammered by penetrations. So in a weird way these nerfs make Jack Dunkirk even more valuable for your Lion or Conqueror captain.

[@Geneticlyinsane1]

The issue i have with the RN boats is just the chance it has to set fire and because of this im just confused on how i should be playing them , the reload time on the guns is still high enough where i dont want to be switching ammo types constantly so i find myself just using HE because of the % which just feels wrong to be playing HE as a battleship

[@wargamingrefugee9065]

Will you please link to the source of the statistics in the video?

[@crazylarryjr]

They also need to address the fire issues, nothing makes me walk away from the game, like getting 3 fires on my ship on the first shot. I'm not even talking the conqueror, thankfully i haven't seen that monster yet. all i know is my advance on my BB lines, both U S and german, have been stopped by the fires set my british BB's. To teach a dog not to shit in the house, you usually point the problem out and smack their butt. This approach also works in gaming, Bitch smack me enough i'll eventually quit. I will not join the british infection, because it enforces the bad idea of HE spamming

[@NickJizba]

Fire prevention is pretty much a mandatory skill for BBs now, and I'm pretty sure that wargaming balanced the ships around it. Spending the points sucks, but once you do the fire chance isn't that big of a deal. If you have the skill they can typically they only get 1 fire after several minutes of shooting, and they end up moving to a more flammable target. You can also reduce the fires you take by timing damage control a little better. Instead of popping it as soon as you see two fires, wait 20-25 seconds. That way it might still be running when they land their next salvo.

[@Blue-ke5sb]

I’ve had a Conqueror set my entire deck on fire and knock out three guns as the Hindy in a single salvo once with little damage. Still pissed.

[@fendelphi]

That is also possible with the Montana(but you rarely shoot HE on the Montana). If they have the same skills, flags and modules, against the same "max fire prevention" target, the Conqueror has about 5% better fire chance with it's HE compared to the Montana, while the HE shell damage is about 500 more(on penetration). So sure, it is better, but it is not like it is impossible to do in other tier 10 BBs.

[@Gazer75]

The real issue is that the average dmg of the Conqueror is 15-27k over the next BB on the list depending on region. On Russian server the gap is 27k down to the GK. But then the gap to the worst T10 after that is only 7k, so clearly the CQ is OP.

[@szkoclaw]

Using HE means the you lose out on opportunities to punish broadside targets. Zao is still better at setting fires. Raw fire chance is lower but once you account for rate of fire and better dispersion then Zao comes out ahead. What's more, in a Zao I can actually aim for different parts of the ship, it's not something you can do in a BB due to worse dispersion. On top of everything else, it being a new ship, very few people have it in comparison to other T10s. This means only very dedicated players are accounted for in the stats. Give it a year and its stats will be below those of Montana. Overall I think the RN BBs will improve the overall quality of games. BBs can no longer sit back in the rear bow-on and laugh while sniping cruisers at their leisure. The days of invincible bows are over and that is a good thing.

[@NickJizba]

I think the nerf will probably be enough, as long as the community is ok with running fire prevention on their BBs. The line seems to have been balanced around other people having that skill. Comparing what happens to my ships with the skill, and what I've seen happen to other people in videos it makes a huge difference. I usually only end up with one fire after a Conqueror salvo compared to the 2-3 I see happen to other people in videos.

[@NickJizba]

I think other people have said this but a 52% - 54% win rate means you're making a huge impact. It would be nice to see their win rates for other ships for comparison. Based on what I've seen on the WoWs stats and numbers site the average win rate for all tier X ships is around 50.5% to 51% and the range from best to worst is between 45%- 53%. So a 52% win rate means you're having a huge impact.

[@SimonTrent8000]

I took fire prevention when the brit bb line was released.

[@MrAlex_Raven]

Despite how rude I've been, I think the changes are enough. I am pleased by this video. It's disappointing that it took this long for *anyone* to point out that "Your choice in Battleship really doesn't matter" because me having played nearly every BB from IV to VIII, to me, that's always felt true. I like best that you paid attention to it multiple times. It's almost as if Zoup's ill-fated claim that BBs are ruining the game or Flamu's constant harping about "Potatoes and BBs being casual friendly" . . . don't matter, because they're categorically false. Thank you for spending time and presenting the numbers in a concrete fashion. I am glad you're doing better and focusing on specifics once more. Have a great day.

[@Xantek85]

If an entire ship line is gonna be the same as the other lines then what's the point of grinding through the tech trees?

[@Elgar7022]

Honestly, I think this change will completely crush it. The only change the Conq needed was a reduction to fire chance (something significant, but not overkill). The heal is the core of this things survivability... it's so squishy compared the other BBs.

[@MissMan666]

I highly doubt this is enough to make it more in line with other T10 BBs, but at least its a step in the right direction. I think over time, more will have to be done to it.

[@Gulaschiltis]

also the fire thing: Imho they should implement some sort of timer --> if you get hit repeatedly by HE for lets say 30-40 seconds, your chance of getting fires increases within that timer. So lets say if a Khabarovsk hits you for dunno like 50 times in that time, your fire chance gets up from lets say 5% base fire chance, to lets say 25%. So if only ONE Battleship is spamming HE onto you, your firechance wont go up so much, because they only hit you with fewer shells. So per HE hit, your fire chance should go up a slight bit. Also your repairteam should reset that firechance to base firechance again. Meaning, that Destroyers will have the most fire setting potential, followed right by cruisers, then Battleships, as it should be... Problem solved...

[@Kulanae]

The way the Conq strips AA from other ships, if more people actually played CV's in-game, and div'd up with a Conq, it would have a HUGE impact in the game.

[@TheGuardianofAzarath]

Honestly, I'm ok with them nerfing the concealment (11.1km is a bit much for a BB, 12 should be the absolute minimum range a BB can be seen), and the recharge on the heal, i guess its better they change that, rather than adjust the heal itself, as it stands, the Conqueror is just too weak, healthpool wise, to have a standard heal, it's round about same strength as the Bismarck. Though I would have thought they would give the Conq and the Lion the October's Damage Control consumable, the limited charge one, and just give it 1 charge (3 with SI and Prem), same with the super heal. Maybe for the guns, I'd personally remove the 419s, leaving it with just the 8 457s, increase the base turret traverse of the 457s to 90 seconds, and the reload to 60 or so, and knock the sigma value down from 1.8 (where it currently is, same as the germans) down to 1.7 or 1.6 (same as the Fuso, which can't hit anything, even at point blank range). A lower hit ratio would then justify the high fire chance. And I'm glad they're not touching the fire chance, it's exactly what is needed to counter the bow-on strategy used to make AP pretty much useless. And on the subject of setting fires and consumables that counter that. I think DDs and Cruisers (and Carriers) should have the fastest recharge on damage control, so it's fastest for the DDs (20 seconds) 25 for cruisers and Carriers, and 60+ for BBs, that way, cruisers and DDs don't die to fire as often.

[@RTyp06]

The sample pool is much smaller for the Conqueror as not nearly as many people have one yet.

[@pep206]

I wonder if they took into account the number of Captain skills? I would imagine at this point the other 3 BB's all have 19 point Captains, where the Conqueror players would not have. Especially those that free XP'd their way to it.

[@hannoverfist5628]

it seems to me the stats would be askew if they are taking stats into consideration that were laid down early when the skills of the community were improving over all.......which means that better stats on the conq are to be expected

[@existentialvoid]

Lowered citadel and massive concealment in addition to that stupid 1/4 HE pen - wrap it in better turn Yamato AA and add some super heal. The super heal is gimmick enough - but I think they took all the French tree gimmicks and threw them in there too!

[@jamescossey6372]

I'm glad they are addressing the heal, but in the wrong way. It should be changed from 2%hp/sec to 1.5%hp/sec. I have no problem with the concealment but reduce the fire chance to be the same as other BBs. It's pen stats and alpha damage on he and ap is good enough.

[@MagnusVictor2015]

Honestly, I'd be fine if the Conqueror just had its citadel raised. Make it as cit-happy as the USN BBs used to be. Let it keep the new-boat button and the flamethrowers, but at least make sure that it can die if one lands good shots on it.

[@RGSRinc]

I think this change just encourages more passive play. It's only real weakness is getting too close and getting focused down. Lengthening the heal recharge rate only encourages Conq drivers to stay back / hide more and the minor nerf to the detection range only further does so. Personally I like the idea of changing the HE pen down to /5 (allowing the German's to keep the /4 and everyone else at the traditional /6 rate), lowering the fire chance about 5%, and lowering the HE alpha damage about 1K. WG just has an annoying history of OP'ing ships on release and then being too heavy-handed on the nerf bat OR nerfing the wrong things. Here, as many have said, nerfing the HE aspect of the ship instead of making it easier to kill may have been the better way to go.

[@ussjohnston1]

They should nerf only the HE fire chance, or limit the amount of HE ammunition. HE spamming is really the only problem I have with this ship

[@mariofan1ish]

I kind of enjoy the idea of a BB that can ignore armor and has great Stealth at the cost of its ability to tank just about anything. But I agree, the Fire chance needs to go down, and go down HARD.

[@djtonylee]

Detectability, fire chance the silly super heal and increased HE alpha damage all need to be decreased. Conq even has great AA, there is literally nothing it canot do. Makes me facepalm because WG are forever making gimmicky new lines then decide to bring in the british BB with absolutely no weaknesses.

[@F22raptorC]

the fire for meshould disable your ship,but not destroy you meaning that is used only to cripple a ship,destroing some modules but not killing a ship the ap on the other end have to destroy the ships and so can the torpedo

[@F22raptorC]

i think they should put another value in the game,call it "crew Efficency" like a t10 BB got 2 vaules: 100.000 hp 100.000 Ce or crew efficency armor piercing are going to do a lot of damage to the hp,but almost minimum to CE high explosive work on the other end,but with a very low alpha depending on the armor (is easyer on DD to cripple then BB) Fire should lower CE of course CE work kinda like crew on the tank in WT...if you get to zero,u are dead,the ships is still there but u cannot fight anymore and the less CE u got the ships start to play poorly,with biggest reaction time etcetera (meaning that HE will still be useful ut only to cripple,got to finish by torpedo or Ap)

[@djtonylee]

No battleships in the game should have a better concealment factor than cruisers. Period. The british BB dont really have any major weaknesses, super heal, great AA, fantastic concealment, massive HE alpha damage, massive fire chance and almost impossible to citadel... it makes no sense to have released them in such a fashion.

[@iRaffale]

Raise their citadels insted of making the premium consumables a must

[@andrew3870ify]

applause to wargaming’s creativity!

[@drcruelty]

Its just weird. BBs are overpopulated, but they wont reduce their max number in a match. So there's often 5 per team all looking for a cruiser giving them the wrong angle. And somehow we have BBs that have ridiculously short detection range. But because there are so many BBs, they make other ships be able to do insane damage to them. HE salvos that set multiple fires per salvo from several cruisers. And now battleships that can do it? Conqueror is basically a giant Zao that can work close in and not have to worry about that pesky dodging stuff. I was on the receiving end of TWO HE spamming Conqueror's once in my Montana. 20km away or so. A Shima chasing and keeping me spotted and throwing torpedoes periodically. Never ending fire, well, until the water put it out. Even if I dodged all but 1 shell it would STILL set a fire. Was a lot like fighting a well played Zao or Khab except they can just sit there healing as fast as you're burning.

[@iainansell5930]

how about a mechanic where while you are not taking damage, your crew is slowly, constantly, repairing your ship? kinda like the reverse of being on fire all the time?

[@xelaxander]

Why are these stats so different from wows-numbers.com and warships.today? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't MM always put equal numbers of T10 BBs on each side? How can the average winrate be larger than 50%?

[@friendlyxeno6352]

I'm honestly surprised they didn't nerf the fire chance or the rate in which you gain health back, considering with the skill and flags you could put it up to a 52% fire chance which is obscene. First, putting the concealment from 11.1 to 11.8, is hardly a downgrade since 11.8 is still fantastic for a T10 BB, and as for the repair time being increased, if I have to wait for an extra 40 seconds, just drop off detection like I usually do, heal, and re-engage. As someone who has the Conqueror, it feels utterly overpowered compared to everything else, and i'd hardly call something like this a nerf, more of an adjustment, lol

[@lubossoltes321]

this kind of resembles the Khaba nerfs. instead of going for the turret traverse to nerf the ship and relegate it to a long range spamer they nerf the torps and rudder shift. so the damage of that thing is still op while it has suffered in utility. these Conq and Lion changes are the same. instead of nerfing the fire chance and taking a bit of the heal capability ...

[@chrysanthcrest]

Raise the citadel, lower fire chance, and increase reload time or shell flight time. That thing is already long-range spamming HE and practically immune to citadel hit, lowering the heal potential is not going to change much in my opinion.

[@destroier920]

Averages never tell the whole story. The problem is how well does the ship perform when in the hands of a good/great/unicum player aka how high is the skill ceiling. Basically how much power does the ship have when played to it's optimum. The average stats will always be muddled by your random pleb, which will drag down the stats of OP ships that are OP due to the higher skill ceiling. Thus for balancing reasons the average stats are worthless.

[@senx3824]

Most battleships know to stay away from that fire starter. So it gets to live a bit longer.

[@DinoDillinger]

Notser, I look at a similar win rate and think, "my skill will make a bigger difference than which battleship I float out there". They each play differently. I know there is the belief that DDs are the difference makers but I would rather have a great BB captain on my team. A top tier BB can control a match.

[@kamelionify]

Fire damage needs to be reassessed across the board. There should be a maximum percentage of fire damage to any ship before it is no longer able to burn.

[@JayceonShawnTaylor]

I think those nerfs are an okay start, Notser, but I think it would be better if WG fixed the real issue, which is the ridiculous HE spam/power. Maybe if Conqueror was forced to use the 457mm guns instead with improved sigma, and fire chance reduced to around ~45%, that I think would be better, then I wouldn't even mind if the citadel remain untouched, Conq still eats quite a lot of heavy chip damage and BBs can do even more than that, and the citadel as it is can be penetrated. So perhaps you could suggest the gun changes to WG. =)

[@la_potat6065]

Feels bored - checks for new NotSer vids... *reads title* me: YYYYYUUUUUUSSSSSSSSS - in with the deepest american voice i can pull...

[@daz0705]

i was looking at these stats on another video, and the extra survival rate and the longer lifetime to me point's to the monster heal, but stat's don't always's tell the hole story due to the amount of variable's involved. With the royal navy bb's being relatively new compared to other nation's there is an element of player's still not playing the ship to it's strength's . as a result i dont think the stat's are as close compared to the other tier ten bb's as at it may seem.

[@thedargavilleman]

DMG HP together with LIFETIME is the key here for the survival rate, its shows that the ship is destroying its targets before it dies (in a small % of battles). So therefore nerfing repair party won't necessarily fix the problem, since dps is the source of the high survival rate. WG logic team still not hitting the mark! I agree, lowering the fire chance (or dps) will give the other ships more time to destroy it, so overtime the survival rate and DMG should balance out.

[@kainhall]

what i dont get......is that in a tier 7 or 8 bb (i play US bbs)...... probably 70 to 80% of my salvos do around 4K damage and it takes 30 seconds to reload but in my Cleveland.....with IFHE..... i can do 4K salvos every 10 seconds...... and if something gives me broadside..... i can do the 10K plus salvos that BBs can do 20 or 30% of the time and, the Cleveland isnt that much weaker....... its sorta like world of tanks, where armor doesnt matter that much as every tank has a weak spot (or at least, all the old tanks do) and most guns you face can punch threw your strong armor anyway and if they cant.....load gold (AKA load HE) plus....cruisers have the speed and mobility to simply dodge the shells.....and the concealment to run the hell away in quite a few games in my NC.... i spawn to the very edge....and get left behind..... so i get focused by 5 to 8 people and die VERY quickly in a cruiser, i could simply stop shooting and disappear....do a quick turn, and then speed off at 35 knots TLDR..... cruisers are better at pumping out damage than BBs.... and a skilled cruiser player can take less damage and stay alive longer than a BB

[@vicmclaglen1631]

Perhaps the RN BB line was directly Meant for Noob players and PTW types. I do understand it is a business and the player base could probably use an increase...it makes sense, long much sought after British battleships finally arriving, drawing hordes of new players to the game. This also makes sense why I haven't enjoyed it; it's the only BB line I haven't enjoyed grinding.

[@isaacmcdaniel6278]

keep the survivability it needs that but the HE fire chance and detection are just broken.

[@ThatAussieBloke1]

Imagine how OP the russian BBs will be when they come out

[@zarlev9083]

BRUUH . This comnent aged well

[@kitchenutensil7870]

Hi Could you do the same for all T10 Classes

[@anthonyware4033]

DDs are what makes or breaks your team. If you have a good DD player he can spot and never bee seen and lay smoke when needed. Thats how i play my DDs. IJN DDs need some love big time. They have been nerfed to death.

[@SuperJaaaaaa]

dont worry when they put that new DD line in (pan-asia or whatever they call it) it will be even worse for IJN DD's did u check stats for new tier X? 5.5km det. + radar gearing guns and insane torps that gunboat is way better torpedo boat than Shima

[@SuperJaaaaaa]

situational ? they only cant kill DD with it all other classes will be raped by these torps thats not situational if u ask me,how often u torp other DD's anyway maybe send some torps in smoke from time to time but... your job is to sink BB's and this DD will do it way better than any other DD in game atm

[@SuperJaaaaaa]

mate did u read what I write ? only DD's will be imune against deep torps all other classes can be sink,even british cruisers(light cruisers) that info. is confirmed

[@internetuffguy9388]

I think the fact that they have all over 50% win rate means they have a huge impact, and yes you should always use prerium repair jackoroe. But hey If spent 1/2 the match on the i/j line I wouldn't worry about the the repair either.

[@dinjoe828]

Looks like Yamato and Großer Kurfürst need a buff!

[@GlassTopRX7]

I only ever fired about 10 salvo's of AP the whole time I had this ship. HE all the way IMO, now with the Monarch that changes but it has bigger guns.

[@carlosenriquemoragonzalez8244]

If a class of ship was desicive in the battle then why would annyone play anything else?

[@KubusSc7]

Why battleships don't have that much impact on tier 10 games: because they are slow and maps are big. Caps matter, not the dmg.

[@roberthead1128]

When you compared tier 10battleships stats , why did you not include the Japanese battleship Yamato ,love your videos

[@disciple16]

I think the fire chance needed to be reduced, may cut down a little on that super heal. What they did I think will make it a bad ship to play.

[@lostinthesky1381]

Detection is fair to little bit too less... Oh Hell DRP nerf is a good idea! Let's buff cruiser bows! Make it the same as BBs so they don't get r3kt by a *single* lucky BBabie salvo!!!

[@drixs2050]

I am doing 170k average damage with this ship and closing up to 100 battles. I would agree that this is a proper intermediate step of nurfing. I found it is harder for conquerer now to lead a charge since 80s and 120s actually make a big difference. That difference is usually you made it out or you died there. with this nerf i would prefer to hide more. But does cause a lot of affects to my dmg? i wouldn't say so.

[@affe89]

It would be interesting to know the ratio between 419 mm vs 457 mm guns. Could the Conqueror be nerfed by giving it only 457 mm guns?

[@gruntzone3605]

The only nerf I'd accept on that monster of a BB is giving it a giant cit like their CA counter part. Sneeze on it and you cit it. It's the only way to keep the current stats, but forcing bad players to not do well.

[@despinoza6205]

Interesting thoughts

[@RZucic]

One important fact that isnt counted in this stats tehy gave on this ship is that whenever new ship comes out "better" players will have crack at it first. That is a fact that cant be denied. Will they skip with bunch of free XP to it or get it faster cuz they get more XP then regular guys isnt important. Conqueror great stats are in big percentage thanks to better players having a crack at it first. If you check stats of ship regular basis you will notice that they are dropping steady. With that said i do agree that fire chance and maybe HE dmg should be nerfed for the ship. Even concealment should be nerfed as they are doing. But nerfing heal will only achieve that ppl will snipe with it even more, stay behind even more and will punish players who play BBs as tanks and power projectors as is their role.

[@danishpuma]

So am i getting this right? You want the battleships to be unbalanced?

[@supravlieg]

The heal needed a slight nerf but I would have nerfed healing % instead of cooldown. And nerf that fire chance by 5-10%

[@hofnaerrchen]

If someone playing T9/10 ships cannot afford to use premium consumables i really wonder how he got that ship at all. Apart from that, the problem would be less of a problem if WG allowed for stacking consumables so we could buy tons of them, when there was a discount. And the problem of setting things on fire: Add diminishing returns to the game mechanics. We have if it already for ship sections taking normal damage. Where's the problem to reduce the chance of getting set on fire after a section took a fixed percentage of burning damage. At some point there will be nothing left to set on fire.

[@Goroh35]

They really had to search far and wide for a certain day and hour to cherrypick those winrate statistics.

[@Belly6815]

Interesting to see the HE hate. The fire mechanic is a hard one to balance. They need a better unifier. A british he shell at say 14inch shouldn't really differ from any other shell of the same calibre an type. Armour and layout of a ships hull is going to differ which is already taken into account but they should level out the fire chances based on calibre. That would be better for all ship types then. Wows meta is very jumbled.

[@DrMacintosh]

Is having to use the premium consumable bad though? I mean they cost like 22k credits.....that’s nothing at t10

[@benjamineng4992]

Statistics are nice, but we have to remember the number of battles played in the Conquerer is far less than in the other T10 BBs

[@fendelphi]

Which is why the initial win rate has dropped from something like 56% to 52%. I wouldnt be surprised if it dropped further, even without the nerf.

[@Wildboy0001]

enough for now,let´s see how it performs with this nerfs. right?

[@GlassTopRX7]

I don't see the time between the heals being that big of a deal, the charge amount sure. On new BB's if I forget the check the auto resupply box, I don't notice the time, I notice the charges and not because it jump out at me, it's because it's not there late the game. The concealment change is just logical. The right change IMO would have do away with the UK heal the 9's and 10's BB's and drop the 16's from the Conqueror. I suspect they would still need to nerf the fire chance. The UK heal is the main problem though. It makes it finishing one solo very difficult with guns. Noob friendly with a tier 10 not sure why you would even bring that up.

[@margretfortune1524]

Was conned into going out with RN officer 2 years ago by friend. He had enough hands to paint his ship by himself. No fan of RN at all. Where NPA when you want them lol

[@batrastardly4574]

I do not believe the close win rates mean the tier 10 BB's don't matter. I believe that number is more indicative of the style of play of many BB captains. The passive play often seen in matches increases in every tier and tier 10 matches have become the ultimate camp-fest. This is due to the players, not the ships. What doesn't matter so much anymore is the other ships and players. You can go out in a DD or CA/CL and contribute a great deal to the team and it means nothing. More and more the win is determined by the team with the least passive BB's. Every match now has 5-6 BB's a side and the passive play often seen is adversely affecting the game for all. I'm not saying there are not great BB captains in matches. They are just outnumbered by the mediocre. WG has left CV's to wither on the vine and heavily nerfed DD concealment while buffing BB concealment with the end result being BB's are the popular class to play for the casual player. I had games yesterday with a high number of BB players who actually knew their ship how to play as a team and it was so much fun it was hard to stop playing. Most days the BB's are still in spawn with full health half way through the match and winning or losing is more of a coin flip than anything skill related. Das Bat

[@slawomirozog5579]

Notser there might be, out of 1000 players for each ship, the same # of pros, noob potatoes, average players, etc. So I don't think I would interpret it as "doesn't matter". A BB in a Capture Area is usually a pretty big deal. More generally some tiers of RN BB are too ridicolous with the HE Fire Rate, but I would point at Orion sooner than Conqueror.

[@Aever]

Hmm, they're trying to reduce the amount of time the ship can spend "out in the open", actively engaging a target. Which is one way to do it I guess. In this scenario, no, the nerfs are not sufficient. The alternative is to nerf the damn HE spam, which is, imho, completely out of control. Do something about that, don't know, maybe have sections of the ship become immune to fire as they're "burnt out. Because right now, once you've used the repair consumable, you're dead if a Zao or a CQ has you in its sights.

[@alzys1771]

Stats don't look that far apart for all T10 BB .. i think this will drop it to bottom of the list , and we don't even know how it will affect the Lion as no stats are shown for that ..

[@lascannon]

I wonder what the win rate is of Conqueror divisions... seen them several times and they are the most annoying thing to play against... sit at the back, spam HE, bait enemies late game with their low health then get trolled by their superheal and can't do anything about it cause you can't citadel them at close range.

[@fendelphi]

Think of them as a slow DD. If you spot it, focus it. A Des Moines can deal about 20k in 20 seconds against it, using HE. Even more if you have the broadside and can use AP. In other words, Cruisers do wonders against this thing, while BBs lack the DPM to effectively deal with(except Yamato, which can overmatch everything except the lower belt armor). It was called a "BB duelist" when it was announced, so we should expect it to be good against other BBs and against typical BB meta.

[@elmateo77]

Remember Notser, these stats are averaged from tens of thousands of games by all skill levels of players, on teams of 12 vs 12. So If one battleship had a significantly higher win rate in these stats (like 58%) that would be a HUGE problem. From these stats it actually looks like the conqueror isn't actually that overpowered. On average it lives a little longer and does a little more damage, but gets fewer kills and is tied for the lowest win rate. If anything, I'd say these nerfs are just going to result in even more conquerors sitting way at the back of the map fire spamming. These nerfs are mostly against the conqueror players who like to get in and brawl with the enemy team, and I think that's a bit disappointing. The last thing the NA meta needs is more fire spammers camping the back, but these changes are going to make that a much better way to play the ship because you can easily disengage and wait for your heal to come off cooldown. I'd rather they had nerfed the HE and left the heal as it was, it was fun having a good brawling battleship.

[@CS-zn6pp]

The conqueror could be performing better because only the better players have ground up the tree to tier 10.... Just a though as I haven't got near it yet despite playing the line quite a bit.