Control Issue | Cardfight! Vanguard

This was difficult to admit since I like Vanguard so much. While I will still ride with this game until the end, admitting that it could be better is undeniable.
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Twitter: @VGPunkAiden
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[@khaleel795]

I think this issue has actually been getting better with the newer cards being released. In set 3 we have Sacrifice Glass, a control deck with an interesting stall win con and a finisher. Exactly what you described. I 100% agree we could have a lot more control centered decks but I don't think vanguard card design has become stagnant at all. There's a fair amount of aggro and control decks you didn't mention. And when vanguard isn't putting out clearly defined archtype decks they're releasing cards that give existing decks the options to be more aggro, midrange, or control. A lot of decks now bot deck, bind, retire, or affect the opponent without necessarily being control decks

[@ronbon3559]

I'm actually super excited with the Divine skill era, as it would be SUPER EASY to implement this type of thing Deck takes resources (as an act skill you pay the cost of cb1 or sb2 or eb3 using your opponents resources to draw cards, maybe they can give the vg power +5k if your opponent has no resources Then with a divine skill they can implement a gastille type skill, like v gastille. Put a card from hand to damage Harsh guard restrict Crits to all units Power to all units It would be AMAZING so here's to hoping maybe Levidras does that! Or the DE guy! Either way I agree! I love controll decks and I'm hoping to see them in the future!

[@corumbyers1302]

I wish the card design team would be willing to take risks for new win conditions. Glendios was interesting when it first came out since you could go for the stall world end win con or you could just do normal Link Joker beatdown with greater defenses. I think what the team has to balance is when control is too oppressive. Even going against Delete and Lock, I can still swing with my vanguard and make plays if I don't over extend. Megacolony got to a point where they can stun the vanguard, your key unit that enables most if not everything in the game. You would draw for turn and if you couldn't ride, all you could do is pass turn. That alone is a death sentence in Vanguard, and a slow one at that.

[@vgpunkaiden]

Unfortunately, I think past risks that didn't work haunt them. If only they remember successful risks too, like Plant tokens.

[@Spencer-sn8cz]

I feel a lot of the issues of control decks come from the decks designed around them. The issues really stem from when decks essentially bypass all of the interaction, which forces Bushi to either sit there and let the deck struggle, super overtune it with crazy strong support, or like you said, provide support that drasticaly change the identity/speed of the deck. Chaos Premium is absolutaly brutal to grind through if it gets the right board state, but decks like Highlander LITERITLY don't care. Unwinable matchup matchup. But then you have the other half where cards like Stride Gredora are integral for the clan's survival, but acts as a one button shut down for like literitly 60% of the game's playable decks. Kagero as an entire clan is already doing horribly because of poor generic support, but really also because retire is so comicly weak at higher tiers of play. Like Gandeeva, if your deck doesn't just kill a large chunk of the board every turn, most great decks will always recover from them/don't even care. A full board whipe is devistating in any tcg, but stuff like Granblue remain completely unaffected. Polarizing is the word. They make it feel as if control decks are not very interesting, calculated, grind decks but rather "you aren't allowed to play the game" decks where only a few lucky clans have the privelage of being able to play through them. Yet at the same time, in the wake of ever increasing offensive power creep, I could not see these decks going without their "toxic" qualities.

[@vgpunkaiden]

My friend has a similar thought. He hates playing vs. me in Premium (I like Gredora), but he understands that decks like those need to exist to tone down some other decks.

[@streetgamer3452]

Honestly I think it’s just how vanguard is made. Vanguard, standard at least, STARTED with multi attack decks and then the stride decks pushed stuff to have to go faster and attack better and control decks usually have that as a downside to control their power level. If they had slowly moved in multi attack and introduced more control from the beginning of standard I truly believe we’d be in a much better situation

[@RhinoSCE]

As a Eugene player, hearing someone call it a control deck feels weird. Like, I get where you are coming from since the deck wants to break the opponent's board to give it as much of an advantage as possible, especially with the re-stander abilities it relies on. But, with how it currently stands, Eugene is in desperate need of some finishers as it is the weakest when it comes to power it can put out on the field, if it was supposed to be a control deck. Plus, with Eva being able to outright deny retires of its main unit, the deck just falls apart if there is no way to interact with the board.

[@BeoTCG]

This was actually a very interesting video type and points being made

[@ufomorga]

Cool video, the graffics are dope

[@Ki-vx6fm]

I wonder if you would call Yotsuba(Gotoubun collab) as a control deck

[@EddricVanguard]

2023 premium Before History collection More control deck in the meta

[@shizo66]

i disagree with v premium being a mistake V is fantastic, thing with V is the control decks arent good. Eradicators is control, i could argue shirayuki is control but one deck type that you didnt cover was combo. I think fighting fist god hand dragon is a combo deck since you want to set up triple or double front on top with all of your front boosters on board for a giant finishing attack.

[@hdwijaya8774]

I wish Siana could be more bind focusing deck; and then when she binded enough opponent cards, she gets +10k, 3 drive, 2 crits, and guard restrict if no front rearguards Also more protection to her "defensive" rearguards that going to her soul

[@josesantiagogamezdeleon9074]

there is Gyze in premium for the control playstyle, in standard we have Griphogila for an explosive OT turn but for those decks you telegraph your strategy as soon as you flip your starter and your opponent can prepare their PGs or rush you down.

[@vgpunkaiden]

Ah, sorry. I should add a disclaimer that I'm talking about good, or at least decent, decks. The argument is useless to me if we include bottom tier decks.

[@ntarontaro]

As much I do agree with the idea that there a cruel lack of control in VG, I feel like the definition of control given here is very arbitrary If we go by the 1, 1, 1, 5 power level decks, post misdeeds dragon Kheios absolutely follows this pattern, but I doubt any person playing VG would call Kheios a control deck By contrast direful dolls, following the tempo deck power curve presented in the video is a really good deck for denying your opponent ressources and controlling the pace of the game, to just win off of sheer card advantage in the late game rather than with power I think it's unrealistic to want VG to have control decks that play the exact way as they do in MTG or SVE because of the inherent difference in game flow, but I do agree more would be welcome

[@vgpunkaiden]

I think you misunderstood my number method. They aren't the power level, they're progression to whatever win strategy the deck suppose to have. Kheios, while weak until he get to the alt g3, is a tempo deck, following the 1>2>3>4>5. It's because he still does something to progress his game plan (aka get different names in soul). As for your other statement, I really don't think it is hard at all to make a control deck similar to what MTG or SVE have. Why do we have to deal damage at all to win? Why don't we mill, have alt wincon, or other means? What I'm trying to say is why don't we do something different beside having to deal increments of damage to win.

[@Spencer-sn8cz]

​@@vgpunkaiden V Gunningcoleo is my favorite iteration of megacolony because it was an interesting alt win con. Even now while the deck is bad, many decks draw/filter/deck thin so much more than they ever have in history, so while only milling 3 cards a turn maybe didn't seem like much, in the grand scheme of a remaining 25 cards left in deck, drawing for turn, drive checks, etc, losing 9 cards from your deck is terrifying. I really wish Gunningcoleo got two more waves of main line support in V. Imagine how much less nightrose we would have seen xD

[@vgpunkaiden]

@@Spencer-sn8cz now u r speaking my language. Hahaha

[@rogueninja93]

Play defensively until you deal 6 damage in one shot? Sounds like premium Dimension Police. Very fun deck to play :3

[@JaredLipman]

You must be an amulet havencraft player

[@vgpunkaiden]

I play Forest, Abyss and yes, Haven. Every decks those craft have access to.

[@tonyike8451]

I was wondering why my interest in Vanguard dipped this is probably it. They honestly making a similar issue to Yugioh

[@shizo66]

ocg yugioh has the triangle tcg doesnt