Controlling Growth in the Polytunnel

[@austinmoore9940]

Man I know this is just the KZbin comment section but this video found me at the right time. What you do and how you do it I can’t get enough of it

[@REDGardens]

Glad it found you!!

[@fxm5715]

After trying a few different methods, I've settled on letting three stems of my indeterminate tomatoes grow up jute twine tied to an eight foot tall frame, with the tops attached 20 inches apart. In my growing conditions, this is about the right amount of foliage to slow the increase in height to the point where they reach the top of the frame close to the end of the season. Single or double stems just grow too fast, quickly surpassing my reasonably comfortable reach. Three seems to be the magic number.

[@acctsys]

Thanks for sharing

[@REDGardens]

Thanks, that is really interesting. I imagine that would be a lot easier to manage. Do you plant the plants 60cm apart? I definitely want to explore a few different options next year. I have heard of a method where every third side shoot is left to grow up a separate twine, because apparently every third one tends to be stronger. Perhaps only a few of the stronger ones, rather than the lowest two side shoots might be an interesting option.

[@fxm5715]

@@REDGardens I've just been using the three strongest shoots that start about 30 cm off the ground. I hadn't heard the "every third shoot" theory, but I may try that on a plant or two as a test. I figure this gives the three stems the most air and light as they grow, with the side ones hanging and spreading a bit, while the center goes straight up. I'm experimenting with different planting spacing and orientation. Next season, I want to try a single row of plants down the center of a meter wide bed, but only 40 or 50 cm apart. The three branches would spread across the width of the bed. Up to now, I've been doing two rows in the bed, with much greater spacing, and the branching spreading along the length of the bed. I figure if I rotate that orientation 90 degrees so that each plant has the full width of the bed for its resources, they can be spaced relatively close together. Spatially, I think it will be less chaotic.

[@tabletop_railway]

I like the way you present the videos, a methodical logical explanation of how your methods have evolved by learning through practical experience and adapting your methods to the particular circumstances in which you are growing.

[@REDGardens]

Glad you like them!

[@matthewbell5933]

I find letting the aubergine plant form two stems is the best method of training aubergine plants love your videos by the way

[@REDGardens]

Thanks! That is interesting about the 2 stems. How far apart do you plant them?

[@matthewbell5933]

@@REDGardens I plant my aubergine plants 60cm apartment

[@SimpleEarthSelfReliance]

After all this time, your channel is my goto "feel better about my tries and fails" on vegetables. Thanks for keeping this going. I hope to, one day again, become one of your patrons.

[@REDGardens]

Ah, thanks for that great comment. It is good to know that I can help others deal with their "tries and fails", as I know from personal experience that they can be tough!

[@crowlsyong]

0:56 notice the knot he uses there. It's easy to untie yet stays strong in that position. Nice little detail there.

[@REDGardens]

Yeah, that is a good knot. It doesn't hold so well with the plastic twine, but is excellent with the jute twine I have started using

[@rufia75]

My great uncle used to grow tomatoes upside down outside. I believe he basically inverted the plant in growing containers and suspended them in the air. the fruit got easier to harvest as the plant grew over the season.

[@REDGardens]

I have seen that done, and it would be very interesting to explore!

[@drekfletch]

In order to slow explosive growth, you can trim the growing tip from the tomato, forcing it to put out a sucker. This will give you an extra couple days as the sucker takes a little bit of time to get started compared to an already growing tip.

[@joefization]

I reccomend pruning the bottom shoots on pepper plants in temperate climates because they have evolved in the tropics and semi tropics where they have a much longer growing season. Also, pick peppers as soon as they are ripe so the plant keeps producing more. I live in Colorado and grow many chilie varieties in our short, dry and hot growing season.

[@REDGardens]

Thanks, makes sense.

[@IlkkaVuoristo]

Most of the modern tomato varieties have been bred to be so vigorous growers that they almost need to be grown in a situation where the ratios of nutrients (NPK) can be controlled extremely precisely (computer-controlled greenhouse). Their growth will outstrip the ripening of the fruit. Your solution is a really good one. Another might be to construct a sawhorse-type supports that hold them up from below. In a commercial greenhouse, they use bent wire supports attached to the growing bench.

[@TheEden51]

Awesome video! I just finished building my first polytunnel, about 70 sqm and already bought some twine and clips. Together with groundcover and drip irrigation sistem I hope to finally grow my beloved tomatoes and harvest enough for tomato juice.

[@REDGardens]

That is awesome! Sounds like you are fully kitted out for a good growing season. Hope you have abundance!

[@exzactlyy]

Awesome stuff as usual, love the tomatoes. Will be interesting to see how biodegradable the twine and clips end up being

[@REDGardens]

Thanks! I found that some of the twine that I buried in the soil degraded within a few months, so I think it will be very short lived in the compost. With the clips I think it will likely be longer, but I don't really mind how long it takes as long as they aren't persistent in the compost or soil. If the ones I drop into he soil in the gardens and end up in the compost disappear eventually, without leaving any problematic compounds or micro plastics, then I am happy.

[@Logan.Bernart]

I think it's a good idea to re-use the plastic clips despite their biodegradablilty. Certain bio-plastics, while biodegradable and made from renewable materials, can have a significant environmental impact. Life cycle analysis work has found that the land, water, and energy use can be greater than that of some conventional petroleum based plastics. The increased energy use can mean the bio-plastics have greater greenhouse gas emissions than conventional plastics. The biodegradablilty however is a clear advantage, seeing your microplastics in the garden video was alarming! Due to the trade-offs I can't attest to whether you should use petroleum or biobased plastics but I do encourage the re-use of bio-plastics due to the greater energy required for their production. If you want more info I can dig up some references. Cheers and thanks for another helpful video.

[@REDGardens]

Thanks for all of that. Makes sense. My main concern is not have them hanging around for ages if they end up in the compost or dropped in the soil. But I think your points about the relative impact of their production, which is an important reason to reuse anything!

[@shanartisan]

Didn't know about the crop twine and clips. Excellent, thanks.

[@REDGardens]

:)

[@MATFarm22]

Here you can see quality content! 291 likes and 0 dislikes! Good job sir!

[@REDGardens]

Thanks! 😃

[@steviekehoe]

These really are interesting details to find the best support options. I like your emphasis on sustainability and the environment and look forward to your knowledge on the peppers too!

[@ahfgebla5379]

My father lets the first sucker at the start of the season so he has tomatoes with 2 stems. If your tomatoes are too vigorous, you may try this method to have the plant spending energy to grow more fruits.

[@TobyRobb]

Really good discussion on plant support, like you say care and attention have the biggest pay off , but there's definitely some yield bonuses through crop support once the other stuff is taken care of. I am sure this has been mentioned but biodegradable is not the same as compostable.

[@danielfisch655]

I have try the twine method over our metal powder coated tomato plant cages/cattle panel trellises, great job and thank you for sharing.

[@goredgord]

The jute trellis I found lasted one season for squash, then I used once for peas/beans and then it was done. Had I been more careful, maybe it would last longer.

[@REDGardens]

That makes sense, use it for lighter crop the second season

[@Melanieallen968]

Great thankyou! Cheers from Australia.😊

[@REDGardens]

:)

[@ttothev1]

I really enjoy all the videos. Lots of great information. Thanks. Cheers!

[@REDGardens]

Glad you like them!

[@qtpwqt]

Another bril video Bruce , lots to think about here , will have to look into using some of these.

[@REDGardens]

Thanks, lots of options!

[@NooberTrOlL]

Love your channel !

[@Bigelowbrook]

what is the name/brand of that two-part twine? Thanks!

[@capeeddy]

Wow your aubergines look great!

[@REDGardens]

Thanks! The best crop I have grown!

[@floodc88]

Hoping someone more knowledgeable than me sees this. I have tomatoes growing in pots and planter boxes in my fenced in backyard. Something keeps eating my tomatoes. What am I supposed to do about that? Am I really supposed to pick my tomatoes when they're green? That goes against everything I've been told about growing your own tomatoes. The reason they're so good at home is because they ripen on the vine as opposed to commercial tomatoes that are picked green and ripened with a chemical. Any advice from other viewers or gardening god RED gardens himself? Thanks so much!

[@snsnplpl]

you may have to use a fabric cover while the tomatoes ripen. I have found that once birds or squirrels figure out that 'red' means 'eat me', there is no stopping them.

[@acctsys]

Birds even get the coco fiber I use as mulch in my pots. It's nice to see animals recognize the abundance. It's a real hassle though.

[@alisonburgess345]

Tomatoes can actually be one of the trickiest things for home gardeners to grow. For example, if they wilt even once, it checks the plant and will lessen the crop, It's much harder to grow them in pots for this reason - you need extremely big containers for them and be watering the plants religiously so they don't wilt. They could even need watering several times on very hot days. They're also prone to heaps of pests and diseases - I'd say the three most important things are: watering meticulously, feeding little and often, and giving them enough sunshine. yours are being eaten because they're somehow stressed and weakened. Keep at it though - if you get it right, they're also possibly the BEST and most delicious thing to grow yourself! 🍅🍅🍅🍅

[@h.s.6269]

Would covering the tomato plant stems with dirt to encourage further root development help bring up production more? Like the parts you end up lying down on the ground all trimmed up as you shift the stems to one side as they continue their growth vertically?

[@jakeh.8754]

cool idea

[@IlkkaVuoristo]

Tomatoes will grow roots from parts that touch the ground.

[@bjm7z]

Also would you mind linking to the biodegradable jute trellis, clips and twine please? I like using jute as much as I can, so more options would be really appreciated

[@REDGardens]

This is the supplier I use: www.fruithillfarm.com/compostable%20crop%20twine.html www.fruithillfarm.com/tomato-cucumber-clip.html www.fruithillfarm.com/tomato-hook-hd-type-180mm-without-twine-100-pcs.html

[@bjm7z]

Could you elaborate a bit on the details of how you hang the tomatoes horizontally? My cherry tomatoes have just been too vigorous in my lower and lean trellis (which is only about 5 ft tall) so I’d love to be able to try something different next year without building a taller trellis!

[@REDGardens]

I really should do a proper video about it. Basically, I prune the side shoots leaving only a main stem that I wind/clip onto a twine suspended from the structure with a tomahawk (or you can just leave extra length of twine hanging). Then when the plant reaches the top of the polytunnel space, I tie a second piece of twine to the stem of the plant at about waist height and tie this to the structure above. Then I let out more of the twine and more the tomahawk or knot over to one side so that the middle section of the plant is slightly horizontal and the top part goes vertical again. This continues as the plants grow, and they end up overlapping with the plant next to it in the row. I have begun putting in an extra clip when it crosses the next secondary twine - or add additional pieces of twine to support the plant where it is running horizontal.

[@bjm7z]

@@REDGardens thanks for the info! How close do you let the pruned vines get to each other? Do they totally overlap or do you try to keep vertical spacing? Also what do you do at the ends of your rows?

[@jodynix0]

Thanks again

[@REDGardens]

:)

[@nickdurrant4283]

Hi Bruce, I'm not sure if you're able to do it (or the pragmatics around it), but I have noticed on a few other channels, such as Charles Dowding's, a 'Thanks' button situated near the thumbs up/thumbs down icons. Obviously it's always better to have a commitment from people so that you can plan for it, however it might be a good way for a bit of extra cash to come your way every now and then in support? Just a thought, love your work. P.S. the rodents that live in my suburb apparently love my snow peas, and I haven't had a single one this season! I tried out the 'goodnature' trap out of NZ as a way to avoid using poison, but it's been pretty unreliable - just in case you had come across it in your research and were thinking of giving it a go!

[@raincoast9010]

Is the twin a poly based material? I wonder about biodegradable plastic?

[@REDGardens]

It is apparently made of natural fibres of jute and a natural viscose - so very biodegradable.

[@grassfeeding6073]

Could you include the source of the compostable trellis twine in the video description? I have been looking for something like this for some time. I find that bale twine doesn't do the job well for a california weave system and I'd like to avoid separating plastic from my compost feed stock.

[@REDGardens]

I get it from www.fruithillfarm.com/compostable%20crop%20twine.html

[@grassfeeding6073]

Excellent, thank you. I love your videos by the way. Just an excellent resource for practical market garden research.

[@JarradFerguson]

Hi great video I am also based in ireland, could you mention the suppliers where you got the twine clips and wire hanging yolks?

[@REDGardens]

www.fruithillfarm.com

[@razman_offgrid-dusun]

Nice tomatoes

[@REDGardens]

:)

[@rogerclarke7407]

I think greenhouse space is too valuable for growing squash. I start my squash in a large cold frame. It was 4x8 feet now it's closer to 6x12 (2m x 4m) and disassemble it when they start growing out of it. When squash vines grow along the ground they put down roots which must be beneficial to how big and numerous the fruit is.

[@REDGardens]

I think I agree with you. Interesting that you mention the disassemble-able cold frame, because I just built some this season and have grown some squash in them, but I didn't remove it, which I think was a mistake.

[@rogerclarke7407]

@@REDGardens Not all varieties need this head start. Right now my compost heap is besieged by 3 different squash types. I think they're daughters of hybrids since I can't find anything like them on line. Producing like crazy, one vine I've picked two and 3 more are coming in a 6 foot length and there are 2 others of that type.

[@rogerclarke7407]

and i didn't plant these

[@noeraldinkabam]

Saving things is wise: the cost of container shipping is so high atm things will get exponentially more expensive.

[@REDGardens]

I agree with all that. Buying things in is getting harder and more expensive.

[@andrewmaclennan1818]

I am running experiments on similar. Would love some of your raw data if possible?

[@kofokofo]

I’m thinking of buying a politunnel - how many layers of foil do you recommend?

[@Mrader1983]

Cool

[@REDGardens]

:)

[@davidthomas9860]

Can you provide a link for that roll of twine? I'm interested in buying a roll

[@REDGardens]

www.fruithillfarm.com/compostable%20crop%20twine.html

[@kingjames4886]

holy balls that's a thic orbagina!

[@vikramsuri9717]

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[@kingjames4886]

I disagree with hanging squash... or really any vine other than a long cucumber that needs to hang to grow straight. vines have evolved to grow along the ground and will root at every node providing additional moisture and nutrients to the plant. even growing them on a ground mat is against their nature.

[@REDGardens]

Outside, I would agree with you, but in the polytunnel there just isn't enough space for that, or I don't want to give them too much space, so thought I'd try vertical growth.

[@kingjames4886]

@@REDGardens good point.

[@davidford694]

I almost didn't watch this, because I misunderstood the meaning of the word "controlling". Perhaps the word "managing" would have been more accurate in your title.

[@REDGardens]

Interesting suggestion, thanks.

[@davidford694]

@@REDGardens "Control" in modern commercial agriculture is often a euphemism for "kill".

[@kingjames4886]

just get out the weedwacker...