Apache Christ controversy shows how Indigenous tradition blends with Catholicism

A Catholic congregation in the Mescalero Reservation in New Mexico is demanding an apology after their priest removed a painting called the Apache Christ, which portrays Jesus as an Apache medicine man. (AP Video: Andres Leighton) Read more here: apne.ws/AtDvQiN
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[@PhryneMnesarete]

In Rome and Paris, they draw Jesus in the Renaissance style, with European features. In Alexandria and Addis Ababa they draw him in the Byzantine style, with Arab and Sub-Saharan African features. In Shanghai and Hanoi they draw him using the ink wash style or with lacquer paintings, and he looks Asian. No one says they are inappropriate or heretical.

[@nicholasholiday941]

Exactly. If the church wants actual depictions of Jesus and many of the Saints who are not Europeans, then they should remove most of the pictures and statues in Europe, the Americas, and elsewhere, and replace them with images that reflect Middle Eastern ancestry. The religions of the Middle East-primarily Christianity and Islam- dominate much of the world including Africa. Europe lost its indigenous religions, and so has Africa (not entirely but close). So let's acknowledge that in religious iconography. If on the other hand people choose to portray the Saints and Jesus in forms that reflect the congregations' image, then let that option extend to all peoples.

[@Sebman1113]

@@nicholasholiday941I know that’s why the Calvinists are against images of Jesus, because they won’t be physically accurate and we tend to idolize race as humans (though I’m not Calvinist). The Roman Catholic Church always had a precedent of culturally relevant icons so it wouldn’t make sense to tear down that Icon being it is infact the Roman Catholic thing to have up. My Lutheran Church in northern Minnesota has a century old stained glass window above the Altar of a blond Scandinavian Jesus and I sure as heck don’t want that moved even though Jesus definitely wasn’t blond or Scandinavian.

[@davidescobar5366]

You know I don't live far from Mescalero in Texas and I have never seen Jesus portrayed as anything other than a fair skinned long haired man with a robe on. No European or Asian or any other feature in any church I've been to everywhere from Texas to Colorado and New Mexico and Mexico and so many more places. To portray Jesus as a specific type of Apache called a medicine man which in itself is a spiritual or physical healer is akin to stray from Jesus's role here on earth. Had this Jesus been depicted perhaps as a regular Apache man then it may not be such a controversy.

[@Thedisciplemike]

You need to do more of a study of Christian art it sounds like. ​@@davidescobar5366

[@Ecce_Agnus_Dei]

The appearance and the race or color of the depiction is not an issue. The issue is rather depicting Christ as a medicine man-a shaman with magical powers. It’s like depicting Christ as a druid or a Chinese buddhist monk.

[@KristinaUSA-x5n]

They got the Apache Jesus painting back and a new priest that hopefully treats them better.

[@willieclark2256]

The old priest has been reassigned to Craggy Island

[@rinceradio]

You mean gives them what they want, not what they need. That's the problem with world.

[@ValAllOver]

It's not about him being Apache or French, features are perfectly fine, problem lies with the clothing that should be more closer to traditional Jesus, the one that came from Nazareth, even with Apache accessories it's fine. But can you imagine Jesus in traditional Scottish skirt, socks, bagpipes etc? The plaid patterns are fine, they're uniquely Scottish, but the image as a whole must be able to represent the traditional Jesus that we understand universally which is closer to the original one.

[@peterwallis4288]

​@@ValAllOveralso, he's depicted as a medicine man. Imagine depicting Jesus as a druid.

[@jamesmedina6015]

@@rinceradio100% agree. 👍🏼

[@BeeBlot]

"We see ourselves in Jesus". The most important words to cling to. Blessings to these siblings in Christ. I pray you can forgive this trespass.

[@Ami-ml7gp]

That comment touched my soul. Amen.

[@cyancat8633]

I mean not to be bad to Christians or anything but literally ever Christians group sees themselves like that

[@KandiKlover]

I like the native parishes. They’re pretty cool with their church designs.

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@minui8758]

@@KandiKlovergive me a native parish over a snooty all Latin middle class parish any day

[@MegaKnight2012]

Our Lady of Guadalupe, a Jewish woman, appeared as an indigenous American

[@judithmccrea2601]

Based on the Aztec mythology of la llorona. Lots of people around the world became Christian when given the choice of Christian or death. Including in Europe!

[@theunwantedcritic]

All around the world and all around Europe images of Jesus are made to look like the people who live in that region. Jesus looks Irish in Ireland, French in France, German, and Germany, etc. if you go to Korea, he looks Korea if you go to Ethiopia he looks Ethiopian. Someone should tell these people that they are doing nothing wrong and that the church should apologize to them.

[@Eodat]

The church should not.

[@stuntman083]

Jesus is from the line of David, not the line of everyone

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@stuntman083 by Roman Catholic standards this icon is perfectly legit. The Nigerian priest lacked preparation for serving an Apache parish.

[@krdiaz8026]

@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 Was he just dropped there? "Here you go!" ??? Nobody told him how things are done? Different cultures practice the same faith differently. That's just bizarre. Somebody in the diocese messed up.

[@stuntman083]

@claesvanoldenphatt9972 I don't need care what an atheist has to say, I already said it's not historical and most people know that

[@BlueStinger475]

Something like this isn't really new, and it shouldn't be controversial . Even back then, like over 1000 years ago, people were depicting Jesus based on how they looked. No one should be mad about this.

[@UpTheHillBackwards]

The Apache's representation of Christ is consistent with various representations of Jesus around the world. This might sound unusual coming from a conservative Catholic, but this variety is in fact a church tradition that bridges many cultures.

[@hectorbalmaseda7690]

absolutely !!!

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@aidanjohnwalsh2129]

Yeah, my favorite prayer begins with 'Our Father', not 'Ours but not their Father'.

[@markislivingdeliberately]

Feels like how in orthodoxy you’re supposed to speak the language you’re at not the language of Greek etc… a lesson American orthodoxy needs to take more seriously.

[@RoyJNg]

If Mary appeared to Juan Diego as a beautiful Latina woman, the children of Fatima as a Portuguese woman, or in Japan appeared as a Japanese woman, I'm sure Christ will appear as a Native American to the Native American people in the same skin color and possibility in the same outfit and not like in a Roman toga.

[@hectorbalmaseda7690]

100 %

[@peterwallis4288]

But would he appear to Europeans dressed as a druid? A medicine man is a practitioner of the occult.

[@samuelbeltran3058]

⁠@@peterwallis4288medicine men and women are not occult. Medicine men and women are holy to us American Indians

[@samuelbeltran3058]

@@peterwallis4288medicine men and women are holy to us American Indians

[@peterwallis4288]

@samuelbeltran3058 according to the Bible, magic is a sin. You're free to believe in that religion, but it's not compatable with Christianity.

[@melvyncalderon5606]

It's man that judges erroneously. It is better to have a kind of Jesus than no Jesus at all. Glory to him that died for us and then rose from death.

[@FaithfulComforter]

Amen. Christ is risen ☦️❤️

[@Phillip-id9rk]

Remember Christianity is Not a White European faith it is judeo of Jerusalem , And Saint Kateri Tekakwitha Saint of the United States , Jesus YESHUA came for our Souls not our territory

[@carlosm.3426]

Christianity isnt judeo either smh

[@SimpleMinded221]

​@@carlosm.3426The first church was in Jerusalem and the first believers in christ were Jewish/hebrews. And christianity was very Jewish in the first decades of its foundation.

[@Phillip-id9rk]

@@carlosm.3426 then what is it

[@zeitgeistx5239]

@@carlosm.3426it was originally an sect of Judaism. Read the New Testament.

[@allwillberevealed777]

Nope. It's garbage.

[@MikeTMike]

Catholics did this in Mexico, and now, ancient aztec rituals are intertwined with Christianity. Wolf in sheepskin, anyone?

[@lyspaere]

European pagan rituals are mixed with christianity in the mainstream western culture, so that's not inherently a detriment to their faith.

[@MikeTMike]

@@lyspaere I'm not saying it is. I am pointing out the adaptability of the Catholic Church.

[@kmj2000]

@@MikeTMike What do you mean by "wolf in sheepskin"? It implies that you view the intertwining as a negative

[@MikeTMike]

@@kmj2000 The church preys on people in order to survive. Gods don't provide cash. People do.

[@TuRayitoDeSol]

WE'RE CREATED IN GOD'S IMAGE, WE'RE ALL HIS CHILDREN🕊️

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@renafielding945]

He came for all of us. ❤

[@ridif]

Fr. Albert Braun O.F.M. built this church by HAND,. WITH and FOR the Mescolero Apache people. Father Braun is buried there. He was a Batan Death March survivor, Officer in the U.S. Army, and was famous for his work with both the Mescolero Apaches in N.M. and for the Mexican Americans of greater Phx AZ, where he presided at Sacred Heart Church. He died in his 90's in Phx . He would have been offended and scandalized at the removal of any Native statuary or decor. My grandparents were married by Father Al, as were my parents, and I was baptised by him. He buried my Grandfather and was a regular visitor at our house. Two biographies have been written about him in which this church prominantly figures.

[@lyspaere]

Thank you for sharing!

[@norahe1953]

I’m a Irish Catholic and I think Jesus would be down with Apache Jesus

[@marymeloy1804]

It is my belief that Jesus can appear how he needs to appear to be heard by as many as possible.

[@AyDotHam]

Same!

[@Orchid-d27a]

No that un true If he was real He would be Middle Eastern Not European He was born in Middle East

[@noahrafter-lanigan2409]

@@Orchid-d27a yeah, then he would be closer in skin colouration to the Apaches, because lots of Middle Eastern Jewish men are pretty pigmented, my friend.

[@lyspaere]

Amen

[@trishalamb138]

I love Apache Jesus! It’s a beautiful expression of your faith. I’m so glad you got your sacred items back 🙏🏼💕

[@Stronghold511]

I’m a pretty conservative/ traditionalist Catholic and I didn’t see anything wrong with the icon. (In fact, I thought it looked pretty cool) Different cultures depict Christ and the saints in a way that communicates the Gospel more intimately to them. The church has even encouraged it like with Our Lady of Guadalupe. I don’t see the problem.

[@saldol9862]

I don’t see a valid reason for its removal. Even given the… unusual depiction of Jesus, the icon clearly is still styled in a conservative manner, and we’ve been doing this for centuries. There are Japanese figures of Mary disguised as Guanyin. We created three ordinariates to welcome back Anglicans into the Church with their own liturgy. I can say that keeping this icon is little hassle.

[@hectorbalmaseda7690]

100 %

[@jrdardonl]

Back in the time, men of Church were worthy. Since Vatican the second, men of Church are mediocre.

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@jd3jefferson556]

​@@saldol9862The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@now4itfriends]

What a beautiful and inspiring community 💗 I hope the Catholic church acknowledges and apologizes. Thank you AP for reporting on these kind of issues and shining light!

[@classicalteacher]

"The Catholic Church apologizes" I'm sorry that a priest from a different culture didn't respect how another culture embodies Jesus Christ. It was obviously a mistake and was corrected. The priest would not have done it maliciously, only out of a protective heart to protect his congregation against idolatry. Do you forgive his mistake since I have apologized to you directly?

[@RoyJNg]

It's pretty much the priest who went overboard, the Pope I'm sure would have been heartbroken if he saw this which I'm sure probably would.

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@RickyMaveety]

What can I say. I was born there, and no one should even consider depriving the Apache of whatever spiritual icons that bring them peace.

[@Alex-ee5pl]

Jewing them up like that is a crime against humanity told time and again

[@michaelfisher7170]

@@Alex-ee5pl the pointy hat people don't meet here anymore. you'll need another website for that garbage.

[@RickyMaveety]

@@Alex-ee5pl I can’t say I’m familiar with the term you used.

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

@@RickyMaveety: It’s a term of insult supposedly referring to Jewish behavior and activities.

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@4freethinking]

Religious zealots are so busy at imagining themselves as the only right ones that they do all kinds of wrong, inhumane, and barbaric things. Your culture should be respected as is, and not coerced to comply or conform, and become a carbon copy. You are beautiful.❤❤❤

[@Ollyatlas]

Not all Christians are evil

[@MohamedAlíSeineldín-1933]

i feel bad for you.

[@brt5273]

​@@Ollyatlas that person didn't say anything about Christians being evil, but if you're equating Christianity with religious zealots, then you may be part of the problem.

[@Ollyatlas]

@@brt5273 it seemed like they were thinking all Christians are zealots

[@noahrafter-lanigan2409]

@@Ollyatlas if "it seemed like" is your strongest justification for assuming a stranger's thoughts and opinions through the Internet, you are reaching pretty hard.

[@robertwilkins3167]

What's the issue? The Faith adapted itself to the customs and indigenous ways of the Celtic and Germanic tribes in post-Roman Europe with Our Lord, Our Lady and the Saints replacing the old gods. Some of the Holy Fathers encouraged this. This is shameful and disrespectful of faithful Apache. The Church is Catholic (Universal) for a reason. 😢

[@metoo6599]

Beautiful depiction of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He is depicted in so many faces and sizes and colors all over the world 🌎 He is the Creator and made all of us. ❤

[@punapeter]

ok sure

[@metoo6599]

@@punapeter everything I said is true. You are a mocker.

[@tloof2370]

​@@punapeter news flash dude Jesus was not white. Pick up your Bible, it is right at the beginning. Genesis 1:27. Take your hate and prejudice somewhere else.

[@Winstonrodney6989]

Yep, the Apache Jesus is just another in a long history of adapting Jesus into your own culture. White Jesus being a prime example of this. I don’t think Jesus minds if your heart is pure.

[@punapeter]

@@Winstonrodney6989 I don't think jesus is thinking, he been dead a long time.

[@epona1525]

I love it. Is it historical correct? No Is it spiritually correct. Absolutely. Jesus' message is for all people, from all cultures in the world. And what's amazing: no matter if Jesus is painted as Middle-Eastern, or more European, or as East-Asian, or African, or Nativ-American, etc.: you can always recognize him.

[@Christianity_and_Perennialism]

True Catholicism makes allotment for the spiritual differences of different peoples. It doesn’t try to force everyone everywhere into the same mold.

[@lorenzodominguez9837]

That priest doesn’t belong in the Apache community

[@christinestephens37]

Jesus is the great physician who heals all ✝️🛐🕊️.

[@juanvaladez5703]

Amen 🙏🏻

[@punapeter]

lol

[@christinestephens37]

@@punapeter ✝️

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@punapeterrebuke you

[@punapeter]

@@christinestephens37

[@god-is-with-us4387]

Catholicism isn’t for the weak. And Christ says it in the gospel the road is narrow that leads to life and broad is the road that leads to destruction.

[@kmj2000]

Learn Aramaic and give up the Latin Rite then. Walk the narrow road.

[@jd3jefferson556]

Why? The Holy Spirit speaks all languages. All that matters is the Eucharist is the center of your worship for a Christian. ​@@kmj2000

[@Darkcap222]

@@kmj2000Shut up

[@donut9719]

@@kmj2000 Where does Christ say to learn Aramaic in order to make it to Heaven? 😂

[@SanctusPaulus1962]

​@@kmj2000 Aramaic is not a language of the Church. The three languages of the Church are Hebrew, Greek, and Latin - which were the languages that were written on the plank attached to Jesus' cross.

[@Stekiaeton]

The way I see it, if it brings more people to the Faith let it be. If seeing Christ as an Apache allows them to relate to Christianity’s profound message then let them see Him in that way. It doesn’t matter how He is depicted, but rather, His plan for the world and its salvation.

[@justahumanbeing5735]

In this day and age, how could the Catholic church send someone with such ignorance? It boggles the mind.

[@magesalmanac6424]

wdym, ignorance is something the Catholic church excels at!

[@TheonewhomJesusloves895]

The truth doesn't change because of peoples feelings. Jesus is not Apache and it is a lie to pretend he is.

[@OccultOdysseyGamingGalaxies]

​@@TheonewhomJesusloves895 well you let the whole image go over your head 😂

[@Dastompinata]

He wasn’t white either

[@gorn_fremen]

@@TheonewhomJesusloves895 horrible reasoning, unless you want to remove all depictions of jesus that dont depict him as middle eastern??

[@giselagaleta]

As a Catholic person, this is so sad they were being forced to choose. I see nothing wrong with their Apache Catholic items. The Catholic Church needs to definitely apologize and do better.

[@classicalteacher]

As a faithful Catjolic, I'm sorry that a priest from a different culture didn't respect how another culture embodies Jesus Christ. It was obviously a mistake and was corrected. The priest would not have done it maliciously, only out of a protective heart to protect his congregation against idolatry. I hope you can recognize this since you are Catholic.

[@user-lt1jd1ye3v]

Even if he didn’t “intend to do it maliciously” he still hurt them and there is no excuse for what he did. You can forgive people who ask to be forgiven, but we do not need to brush aside what he did. Priests are not supposed to make anyone feel unwanted in the Church

[@Andrew-gn9qp]

I am less apologetic, if this is a Latin Rite church then they should prioritise Latin culture.

[@cherubintambwe6177]

​@@Andrew-gn9qp then I guess they should remove byzantine icons from latin rite churches then

[@jd3jefferson556]

​@@classicalteacherThe issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@muradtedoradze2000]

They Deserve Apology from that m*athead priest! How dare he do that???? It's not his Backyard! That church belongs to the people ❤️

[@user-lr6hw4dq4t]

Here in Asia, Jesus were asians. So relax for everyone

[@Toramai-pi8wx]

I don’t get the controversy that the priest stirred up…. It’s depicting Jesus as a healer and Jesus is the universal healer. I don’t see a problem. Oh no, He’s depicted as an Apache….. please. I’ve seen Jesus depicted as Chinese, African and many paintings to show that Jesus is for everyone not just white people. Heck, the appearance and apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe used Native Mexican symbolism to show that she was for them and help them understand.

[@tabletalk33]

How do we know that the priest is a white man? Is he?

[@mrs.g.9816]

I've seen Jesus and His mother Mary and nativity scenes drawn and painted in many ways all over the world. They are all beautiful, and honor the One who loves us all. I'm glad the Apache Christ is back in the sanctuary. The congregation deserves a heartfelt apology!

[@alonsotello4415]

Here in Peru we used to have paintings and statues of Jesus as an Inca, but some european priests also dislike them, most of them were destroyed and only a few remained.

[@phxntoka7563]

Shameful

[@stuartdryer1352]

I find Christian depictions of Jesus with light brown hair and blue eyes to be hilarious. That is not what first century Jewish residents of Galilee looked like. But then again, he may or may not have actually existed, so what difference does it make?.

[@FarmerGM1]

So the Priest was from Nigeria and felt uncomfortable with the pictures and was unaware of the significance of the painting. Yes he made a mistake by taking it and not giving it to the tribal council. It was never about disrespecting the Apache tribe.

[@BrighidsForge]

How do you get that? He told them they had to choose between being Apache & being Catholic... There's white Jesus everywhere (which is historically inaccurate), black Jesus, swarthy Jesus. Are they not allowed a black Jesus representation in Nigeria? Maybe they weren't and that attitude was carried on to the Apache. But their icons were beautiful and theirs. For something like that, the priest should've inquired up higher - or maybe he did?

[@FarmerGM1]

@@BrighidsForge He never replaced it with a picture of white Jesus. He was just new to the area and tribe and absolutely made a mistake.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Thank you for clarifying. This explains some of it. A Nigerian might not have been the best choice for this parish.

[@Koki-hc3mw]

Ignorant take

[@Koki-hc3mw]

He never told them to choose between being Apache and being Christian, that’s just something the woman said in the video because that’s how she felt. What she and you apparently seem to fail to grasp is that you cannot depict Jesus as a medicine man who does occult practices that are forbidden by the Catholic Church.

[@emanuelmaldonado7509]

Dios es de todos claro ejemplo mando a su madre en mexico guadalupe morena y indigena❤❤

[@ramseydoon8277]

May all sentient beings be liberated from suffering and from the causes of suffering.🕉☮️☮️☮️

[@punapeter]

causes = religions

[@humantwist-offcap9514]

@@punapeterthe Catholic Church is almost exclusively responsible for the unprecedented human progress achieved by Europe. It *exclusively* funded science and exploration, hospitals, universities, taught freedom as a human right, etc for centuries. Your values are Christian, and you don’t even realize it because it’s so ingrained in you.

[@TwisterTornado]

​@@punapeter Well, now I KNOW that you are Russian.

[@peterchristensen9585]

Beautiful church. Love the colorful artwork.

[@SK-ki1te]

I was a catholic school kid in ELA in the ‘50s -‘60s. The Presentation nuns were mostly young white Mid-Westerners. I remember they hired an artist to design and install a floor to ceiling mosaic mural in the church representative of the school and parish. We watched its progress as the tiny mosaic pieces came together. When finally revealed, it depicted a boy and girl in the school uniform kneeling and looking up reverently at the church’s namesake version of Mary. I remember my teacher was livid! She was ranting and pacing in the classroom, upset because he had depicted brown skinned, dark haired kids. It was and still is a Mexican Latino community. It’s amazing that indigenous cultures have clung to a religion that was forced upon them with great historic cruelty. Jesus is the reason! But organized religions have their agenda.

[@kyleskorner5413]

There is nothing wrong with organized religion or Catholicism man

[@SK-ki1te]

@kyle then you missed the whole point of the video, man

[@isaiah3872]

@@SK-ki1te Can you tell us what point we missed? Because the Indigenous people featured in the video seem perfectly capable of being able to choose any religion for themselves, and in spite of the historical misgivings that contributed to their evangelization, they still choose to have faith Christ & express that through their culture.

[@LosDoyerss]

Catholicism was not forced upon these people, they have free will just like anyone else.

[@jd3jefferson556]

Being Catholic is better than being Aztec, Navajo, or whatver pagan deities they sacrificed to. Honestly, you should look into the history more, many many indians loved their "black robes" the missions took care of these people, and loved them. It was often the governments that mistreated the people, not the missionaries.

[@somerandofilipino6957]

Fascinating example of cultural syncretism

[@BabyBugBug]

I think the fact that Christ transcends cultural boundaries is beautiful. Why would anyone see this as a bad thing?

[@mdc3148]

Cultural boundaries are not a problem, but they changed him himself. Jesus was Hebrew. Nothing wrong with adding elements but making him a totally different person is a little problematic. And I’m Mexican, with both European and Amerindian ancestry, so I have no horse in the “race” - no pun intended.

[@hollywoodpotato5289]

Christ is universal

[@Knsoms]

He’s a fraud.

[@TimValencia]

I’m in El Paso, and I’m definitely going to look into this.

[@punapeter]

lol

[@TwisterTornado]

​@@punapeter

[@punapeter]

@@TwisterTornado

[@ricardosena8269]

Christianity destroyed many indigenous cultures. Many tribes have lost their ways, it's really sad.

[@elizabethclampittclampitt8469]

It is sad because for thousands of years christianity sees all other religions and cultures demonic because they are conditioned to see anything other than Christianity as evil. It’s heartbreaking, another reason why I’m no longer Christian and instead pagan

[@hessu3]

Hello, I am Catholic, but I also feel deeply offended by that priest. I have great respect for all Native Indian cultures and I think, it is already a great concession of them if they keep the catholic faith after so many horrible experiences. So, for sure, they should live the faith their own way. Kick the priest out, kick everybody out who wants to tell you, how you should live your faith!

[@Serai3]

What a beautiful image. I do not understand a religion that refuses to see Divinity in all its members.

[@user-lt1jd1ye3v]

It is encouraged in Catholicism to portray Jesus as a member of your culture

[@user-lt1jd1ye3v]

The priest was in the wrong

[@jd3jefferson556]

​@@user-lt1jd1ye3vits its not so black and white. The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@luifranco1457]

The same people who changed his name from Yeheshua to “Jesus” told you what!????

[@ronwade2206]

In Bulgaria there are many depictions of Christ as a black man, but that ain't here.

[@jd3jefferson556]

@ronwade2206 The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@polemeros]

Icons darken with time, but the Christ of the icons is not subSaharan African, he is Caucasian. Nor are the Black Madonnas of Europe African, just dark. Huge difference.

[@TheRonBerg]

Why "controversy"? Jesus Christ is for everyone. I can't see anything wrong with an Apache-looking depiction, as long as it is understood that it's intended to show how he represents and belong to all of humanity.

[@sirsquirrel6176]

I can think of another controversy that happened regarding Christianity that happened recently…🤔

[@magvs_mæstro216]

Recently, and forever

[@T-h-a-t_G-u-y]

The Olympics?

[@jc2delaga]

Leave them alone. Jesus is n will be the Love within us! 🫶🙏

[@NinevehMusicNZ-xf8yj]

When feelings are more important than truth

[@enckidoofalling2883]

The Catholics helped ruin my grandmothers life. Why don’t they hold the men responsible? Not acceptable.

[@mathiusq9128]

There is more to this story than meets the eye. This is a purposely anti-Catholic spin article. The priest who had the misunderstanding here was an African immigrant himself and admitted his misunderstanding and mistake.

[@humantwist-offcap9514]

The media does not like the Church.

[@SpiritViewHomes]

He admits this?

[@NewYorkDoll_911]

He didn't apologize to the congregation. Admitting a mistake and apologizing are two different things. BTW I am Catholic and 1/4 indigenous. This is not anti- Catholic .

[@peterwallis4288]

​@@NewYorkDoll_911you don't see a problem with depicting Jesus as a practitioner of the occult?

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

@@peterwallis4288it’s not to show him practicing the occult. It shows him wearing clothing of a highly respected member of the tribe. You missed the whole point

[@tracygriffin4439]

Let them have their Apache Christ. Christ came as a human being. The Apaches are also human beings. Therefore, there should be nothing outrageous about depicting Christ in an Apache form.

[@BenzMaster95]

Poor people. Please lord forgive the false shepherds

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@Jaime.aguilar222]

I feel like the apaches and native people out of anybody, know spirituality the most.

[@famvids9627]

The issue is not that Jesus is depicted as native... But depicting him as a medicine man that Engages in blasphemous spiritual practices is the problem. Muslims wouldn't take it too well if you depicted Muhammad as being a medicine man either.

[@brt5273]

Yeah well Jesus is not Mohamed so that isn't a valid justification, nor is your suggestion that the image represented anything blasphemous. You don't even know what you're talking about and yet you run full throttle like some authority.

[@Unvaccinated69-m9o]

True

[@bratbonanza9023]

Well this is why Muslims forbid depictions of ANY prophet

[@tylerpatti9038]

The first dipiction of jesus had him dipicted as a roman soothsayer and magician with a magic wand and appolo's diadem.

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

You miss the point, historically the medicine man was highly respected. Jesus is also highly respected. The icon shows Jesus as a highly respected member of the tribe.

[@aidanjohnwalsh2129]

Apache Jesus is beautiful! ❤🙏🏼

[@njp4321]

Nobody has mentioned the woman who wore a "You stay classy San Diego" shirt to an interview with a media outlet. That is some top-tier trolling that deserves to be acknowledged.

[@user-ej4th4pq9k]

Huh?

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

Can you explain how it’s trolling, I’m kinda slow lol

[@maracayg]

Los Apaches eran mexicanos, antes de ser mexicanos eran novo-españoles. Ese sincretismo es normal. Otra cosa es que los gringos lo ignoren.

[@CitizenCan]

Well, Jesus is from the Middle East... so, presenting him as an Apache is a misrepresentation....

[@joelolwertz5894]

Talibam Jesus, have mercy on us.

[@johnfisher247]

That Apache twisting of Christ into a medicine man crosses a line. There are better ways to depict Jesus Christ than that and it is easy to imagine what it would look like.

[@bonitabruce1753]

Why is my imagination better or worse than yours?

[@bonitabruce1753]

The Europeans were using their imaginations too.

[@Toramai-pi8wx]

So Christ is not the universal healer according to you?

[@desmondjones8517]

Jesus was a medicine man. He healed people. Go figure

[@blobfishgunner5365]

It’s a pretty standard practice all over the world to depict Christ in a way that is particular to that culture. This really isn’t any different than traditional Chinese or Japanese iconography that depict Christ in traditional clothing and social roles from that region.

[@murhasta6952]

I honestly love the idea of Jesus being a medicine man

[@cesigallardo2233]

Well, he sure wasn't white, so let's start there. He was Jewish, Middle Eastern.

[@JohnSmith-zq9mo]

People from the Middle-east are white according to American legal classifications. I know they want the coveted status of people of color, but legally and culturally they just don't have it.

[@Manape78]

Surprised? Most natives aren't surprised

[@realjuanpflores]

Is that not Christ blasphemously depicted as a shaman? It's not about the ethnicity, which is such an absurd thing to worry about, but the idea of endorsing sorcery.

[@1988vikable]

Should the make moses as a native apache?? I agree its a bit ridiculous.

[@jd3jefferson556]

The issue isn't Jesus depicted as an Apache. It's Jesus depicted as a medicine man who are Indian sorcerers. I live in New Mexico, the Indian Cultures are beautiful but they are still very involved in witch craft. Which is the problem. Sorcery and Catholicm don't mix, and you can't have both.

[@nope24601]

Gotta wonder what those dances shown in the video are meant to do. Where they related to the congregation?

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

The job of medicine men wasn’t strictly shamanic, they would also heal people with herbs and stuff. Either way, I think you’re missing the point. It’s not to blaspheme, it’s to feel familiar to Christ in their own culture, in this case the way He’s dressed.

[@jd3jefferson556]

@sasquatchdonut2674 right but like I said, I'm from New Mexico and my family is Navajo. Witch craft is strong here, and it's better to steer the people from Medicine Men, who are always involved in witchcraft. Even if they did other things they are still always involved in witchcraft.

[@edwardf9661]

I am so sorry they did this to your community. Stay strong to your faith…you are loved. Love the painting of Christ.❤

[@kepinpin5277]

I need Apache Jesus vs. Judaean Cowboys

[@MalxaAza]

Is it appropriate if I say "AMEN!..." to this?... 😃🤪

[@Episcopalianacolyte]

Since JESUS was fully human, what is the problem with that priest? Note: JESUS was also fully divine. I say that, so I will not be confused with a Biblical Unitarian heretic.

[@AyatollahS.A.Khamenei]

It isn’t that he’s Apache that’s the problem, it’s that this “Apache Jesus” it’s the paganized depiction n terms of the totems he is wearing

[@alviverdeus]

As opposed to all of the Roman pagan incense, candles, altars, and icons currently found in the RCC? 😂

[@enzocompanbadillo5365]

@@alviverdeus incense and altars are all mentioned in the bible, as parts of the jewish ritual held by the priests, the arc of the covenant was adorned with images of Angels, and the ancient christian catacombs also had painted images

[@alviverdeus]

@@enzocompanbadillo5365 All of the trappings of the Temple went extinct when Titus razed it to the ground in the first century and carried its treasures back to Rome. The vestiments, altars, incense, candles, and iconography, as well as most of the holy days of the current church are Roman paganism given a Christian face-lift after Constantine made it the religion of the Empire. 😂

[@marivg8948]

Gotta get rid of those Pagan Christmas trees, too. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@AyatollahS.A.Khamenei]

@@alviverdeus sorry dingus, incense is in the Bible itself along with masoretic explanations of the liturgy,keep coping in ignorance as either a Protestant or atheist….i can hardly tell the differences

[@user-oq8pc2si2s]

Syncretism is not Christianity. The Catholic Church often compromised the Gospel. There is only one Lord. The image of Jesus as a medicine man... it is not about him being dressed in their clothes or race but about inconsistent beliefs and practices.

[@TwisterTornado]

IF YOU ARE A CATHOLIC, ABOUT TO CALL THIS WRONG, PLEASE EXPLAIN CHRISTMAS TREES AND EASTER EGGS. THANKS.

[@buddyfats4768]

Saint Boniface is the origin of the Christmas tree it isn't pagan if that's what you are implying.

[@TwisterTornado]

@@buddyfats4768 That is easily disproven propaganda. Are you one of those people who thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old? I will not talk to Biblical literalists.

[@medusagorgon8432]

That presit was dead wrong.

[@user-gl7we7nb9u]

If the Mormons can have American Jesus, so can the Apache

[@DavidPeel-fo9xv]

The Mormons believe in the same Jesus that other Christians do. They just believe He came to others after he died (John 10:16, “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”), including people in the Americas.

[@user-gl7we7nb9u]

@@DavidPeel-fo9xv yeah and he could’ve dressed like an Apache when he got here.

[@DavidPeel-fo9xv]

@@user-gl7we7nb9u Nah, prolly like an Aztec, or maybe Olmec.

[@user-gl7we7nb9u]

@@DavidPeel-fo9xv Olmec are nephalim they have big giant heads

[@DavidPeel-fo9xv]

@@user-gl7we7nb9u You’re joking, right? Cuz my last comment was a joke.

[@robocop2u2]

Even of they have Jesus painting, they are still headed in the wrong direction and inadvertently walking in darkness instead of righteousness.

[@fabriziopelissa]

Scandaloso, Cristo è lo stesso ovunque e non c' è nessun bisogno di scimmiottare la sua santa figura.

[@Alexander-wq7qo]

Hopefully they still keep their indigenous traditions and Gods

[@texasrefugee7888]

Unbelievable. The religion I grew up in likes to get between us and Jesus.

[@kathebridges4736]

There are individual jerks in every religion, even the new atheists

[@desmondjones8517]

People depict as white Jesus and from where he came from he is colored. Go figure of who is not observing culture. We have a drawing of 12 Navajo men in a hogan depicting last supper at Kayenta Catholic Church

[@melissamiller2696]

We live in a time, it seems, when we must decide again whether we want to live in darkness or righteousness and freedom

[@ramseydoon8277]

When is it not that time?

[@ramseydoon8277]

@@Echo-ux3wo "Really" Really what? How am I trolling? I'm saying it's always that time to make a decision like Melissa was talking about. I'm agreeing with her. What do you think I said? How was I being passive aggressive? How am I sad and lonely? Are you sure that's not projection? You are being judgemental for what reason? Why were you offended by what I said?

[@Echo-ux3wo]

@@ramseydoon8277 Omgosh ! 🤐 I reread your comment and uhhh... I misread it the first time. 😭 I guess I'm a little edgy from battling with the real trolls (being contrary for the sake of being contrary)! I owe you a huge apology! Insulting people I don't know is not how I roll! Geez. You were so kind too in your reply!!! Makes me feel even worse! Please accept my humble apologies. Thank you for being so kind. 🥲

[@NewJack-wr4bq]

The question is why do you love your skin color as much or more than Jesus? Idk

[@jd3jefferson556]

Facts

[@weston06.]

They liked their traditional icons, they see it as a reflection of their culture. There’s nothing wrong with incorporating elements of your culture in your art. European Christians often depicted Jesus as a white man with brown hair and green eyes; Chinese Christians often depict Him as asian.

[@gerardgarcia7127]

Depicting Jesus as an Apache is a consequence of adopting the Novus Ordo Religion where everything goes.

[@museumfreak2805]

I’m glad that this beautiful icon is back where it belongs.❤

[@BeccaBeeMe]

How HORRIBLY WRONG for the Catholic Church to do this to you!! 😲 Omgoodness, I'm in tears, I can't even begin to imagine your confusion and absolute heartbreak over losing your church!! 😥 What are these priests thinking?🤦‍♀️ Surely the Vatican doesn't feel the same way as this local diocese?! What a travesty!! I pray you get the apologies you're all deserving of and I hope they return the things to your sanctuary and do it very quickly!! Praying the blessings of our Heavenly Father and His Only Son be upon each of you. 🙏🏼🕊️

[@OfficialTexan]

Are you Catholic?

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

One rude priest does not make up the whole Church. He was removed by the bishop’s orders.

[@isaiah3872]

​@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 90% of the comments can't seem to make that distinction, even though it was clearly expressed in the video and the corresponding article.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@isaiah3872 what’s that tell us about KZbin commenters? They don’t think, they just react. Also, the priest was from Nigeria. So he wasn’t a colonialist oppressor.

[@scootahscoot9389]

I’m white and my Our Lady of Guadalupe picture still Aztec; my feelings not hurt Jesus is Middle Eastern, YOUR SOUL more important

[@angelwings7930]

What the, ? 🙄. Not a medicine man. Nope.

[@ramseydoon8277]

Who's not a medicine man?

[@Echo-ux3wo]

​@@ramseydoon8277 Troll.

[@tloof2370]

Jesus is "the great healer". Sounds like a medicine man to me.

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

@@tloof2370: Yep…

[@kfkgjgkvkgkggknfnfndb2039]

I think christ would feel honored

[@michaelfisher7170]

that preist needs to be removed from parish responsibilities until he's actually been taught the history of the Church's interactions with indigenous people. this individual apparently didn't know this has gone on for a very long time and is quite common. His education is obviously lacking. And the church needs to apologize. I'm so sick of church apologies having to be wrung out of them. Arrogant.

[@akirahojo2]

It’s a beautiful icon, and Christ appears in different look throughout Asia and Africa. No problem at all.

[@galvinowens7398]

Christianity is an immigrant religion from over seas . Judaism Muslim Christianity and budiasm is all from over seas. Immigrants religions all from over seas

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Christianity is for the salvation of the world and all the people in it.

[@sieda666]

@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 We're just fine without saving, thank you though.

[@MohamedAlíSeineldín-1933]

????

[@raulquiroz7492]

You're right, just like Buddhism originally came from India, but became popular in East Asia, particularly in China and Japan. History, geography, and religion have an interesting relationship.

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

That doesn’t make it wrong

[@johnschneider4160]

And that's another reason I left the "catholic" church.

[@OfficialTexan]

Those are clips of pagan ceremonies spliced in. You either submit to the Papacy or don’t. Half-measures are for Protestants.

[@michaelfisher7170]

they've been allowed by the church those ceremonies for over three hundred years now. attitudes like YOURS led to the Pueblo Revolt, which forced the Spanish OUT of New Mexico for a decade. Get lost, Torquemada.

[@Toramai-pi8wx]

It’s part of their culture. They’re plenty of pagan rituals that we took and refashioned the Catholic rituals. Are you just gonna stop putting on Christmas trees in the lake because those are pagan and origin?

[@sasquatchdonut2674]

@@OfficialTexan oh so they can’t dance now?

[@joeshmoe9111]

All glory and praise be to Jesus Christ

[@galvinowens7398]

Native American were here first.

[@IamTheRealZODIAC]

Sticks and rocks didn’t work out to well

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

@@IamTheRealZODIAC: 😂 As if that’s all they used. Read a history book.

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

@@IamTheRealZODIAC: Yeah so what? The Bomb wasn’t invented by Americans either, but they took credit for it anyway. As a side note, America isn’t a real country anyway. Its history is factory-made. The land belongs to the Natives who have real history. It doesn’t belong to refugee Euros.

[@IamTheRealZODIAC]

@@TheTrueOnyxRose Well too bad for you and them. That’s the price of being Pagan.

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

@@IamTheRealZODIAC: Spoken like a true imperialist.

[@martindonnellymus]

Christ in me…regardless of ethnicity or race..

[@marcuswright8418]

Acceptance of Christ means you renounce all of your past identities, worship no other gods and give up your self. In doing so you are born again in the spirit with a renewed identity and recognition of the true King of all Kings. All these pictures and rituals are demonic in nature.

[@michaelfisher7170]

thanks for your take mr zealot. I'm sure we'll all take it to heart.

[@marcuswright8418]

@@michaelfisher7170 no problem half-truther.

[@bobbymoss6160]

So Jesus was not only a zombie, but also a shape shifter? Interesting.