Convex Hones? WHY?

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[@Eric_TheCajunBlade]

I always love listening to you talk super curve stones. Great video, love your collection of broke back rocks. 😂

[@billm.2677]

@@Eric_TheCajunBlade Thanks Eric

[@Greg_Gallant]

Great talk Bill! Your work on this has resulted in a very detailed progression of steps for developing the edges you want to shave with. My sense of this is that you only go through the entire progression once and maintain edges with loaded strops after that. Is that correct? You've given me the idea of doing a similar talk on using flat abrasive surfaces to shape edges. [Not a comparison with your method of using curved surfaces, btw.]

[@billm.2677]

@@Greg_Gallant Thanks for watching and the kind words Greg. Mostly maintenance is done on a shaped balsa charged at 0.1µ cBN and horsehide mounted on the same shape. I have dropped back to the Suehiro 20k a few times and updated older methods with my cGHP 🙂. I find once one doesn’t go through the volume of shave pieces quick enough less overall honing has to occur. I guess it is possible to have enough sharp steel to never actually need more. I look forward to your talk on abrasive surfaces and shapes. It is something that often cannot easily be seen.

[@garys_shave]

I used to set up and "run" Acme Gridley screw machines and we were always dealing in 1000's of an inch or tens of thousands of an inch....if you know what a Screw Machine is....then you know. I had a running joke at the time, when folks asked what I did for a living, I said I ran Screw Machines, men I had to say it once, women always twice! ~cheers Bill🍻🍻

[@alexharris8500]

Unreal. An excellent explanation 👏. Thanks for your time doing this vedio ❤😊

[@billm.2677]

@@alexharris8500 thanks for tuning in Alex

[@nonamebear1136]

Thank you for sharing your process. You have quite the regiment. Take care Bill.

[@billm.2677]

@@nonamebear1136 thanks for watching. It was actually just the way things developed to get what I liked consistently. I suppose I won’t stop trying for better, faster, easier, cheaper. 😎

[@justinremple7986]

Sweet!! Always love a lesson and hearing the reasoning why… thanks very much for the video!!

[@billm.2677]

@@justinremple7986 Thanks for enduring my sometimes long talks Justin

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

Long and good explained thank you for taking your time mate. Gorgeous razors stones and explaining love it all Wish you all the best mate 😊

[@billm.2677]

@@knifesharpeningnorway Thanks for listening Glenn.

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

@billm.2677 well always happy to listen when people actually take there time to explain in a good way. Instead of going i do this you do this or not you dumb type pf way 🤣🤣🤣 and i love to learn would be fun to test and se microscopic pictures of convex hones/stones vs flat how they actually impact a razor is it little or much. Does it increase or decrease of its bigger or smaller blade? Does grind type impact it etc. I would reckon a 1/4 hollow would be thinned and more impacted than a full hollow if my thinking is right samme with a 5/8 vs 8/8 the bigger blade has more surface area to contact and get altered by the stones. Love to learn and again i mean it utterly appreciate guys like you taking there time ❤️

[@billm.2677]

@@knifesharpeningnorway I try to present what I do as, what I do and why. That way interested parties may be able to find things that they might be able to use. For me, it is more about finding and developing the application of a skillset with components that you have access to than a set of rules. I have an 80x stereo wide field binocular scope with glass optics. It does enable me to observe the shape I am trying to impart to the bevel. It is easy to see transitions on larger razors and thicker grinds. I can clearly see the 3 curve shapes on 7/8 blades. Sometimes I can only use or see 2 shapes on very thin grinds especially smaller razors. The magnification of this scope is enough to pick up a chip out or void that you would feel shaving, but not enough to get a real clear view of an apex. Your countryman, JPO has a more powerful 2D scope that is better at looking at the apex and seeing the transitions of concavity. Largely I have come to use a 15-20x loupe and my packing peanut test in evaluation of progress.

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

@@billm.2677 nice mate. Just starting on this journey so fun to see what others do

[@alexharris8500]

An absolutely beautiful introduction sequence ❤❤❤. I have curved a small coticule only one way, probably a diameter of 100mm Diameter. I use it to latterly along the edge gently to get an edge all along. What's your opinion about this experiment 🤔?

[@seanstapelfeld]

well this made me want to buy stones and shape hehe great information Bill!

[@billm.2677]

@@seanstapelfeld shaping is always a necessary chore in the process.

[@seanstapelfeld]

@@billm.2677 The only stone I would love to have shaped but wont ever do is a surgical black ark... those are haaaaard

[@billm.2677]

@ My 3x8 black was a career to shape. I think Jasper would be even tougher. Sean G has one, I will ask him next live stream.

[@seanstapelfeld]

@ I will see you In the next SeanG live then hehe

[@RobertPascale]

Very well explained Bill! Pretty sure you covered all the bases👍🏼 I personally haven’t tried convexing yet but I’ve got a Jarrod plate now and a few shaped stones so I’m sure I’ll be giving it a whirl soon!

[@billm.2677]

@@RobertPascale Thanks Robert and welcome to crazy curve honing.

[@RobertPascale]

@ 😅 so many options!!

[@dnamol]

Hi Bill, Lovely to see you back in the kitchen. It's been too long 😆 Not found cbn to compare to the diamond spray I use as last step on veg tan leather strop, but know from before that you prefer the cbn so would be interesting to make a comparison in the future. Something I got thinking about more and more when I started using the film-on-a-stick was why we use wide bench stones for convex honing (assuming that we use a 2-axis stone). The contact point would be only along the centre of the long axis.. so.. would it not make sense to have as slim stone as possible? It would likely be cheaper and not to mention the time to grind them. Really enjoyed this one 👍🏻

[@billm.2677]

@@dnamol Thanks Johan. I tried diamond emulsions to compare to the much more expensive and rare cBN options. It is hard to tell much of a difference but I think cBN works faster and is smoother. You are absolutely correct on the width of the stone. I think 2x10” would be my ideal, but the longer stones require exponential increases in shaping effort.

[@dnamol]

@billm.2677 Yeah, a 10' would nog be fun on the 6 feet wheel 😁 Looking forward to your next video

[@lawrence1md]

Nice video and chat/explanation. Where did you pick up the silicone mat that you used under the stone holder?

[@billm.2677]

@@lawrence1md Thanks for watching Matthew. Yahiko Stone tray from chefs knives to go, $15 under the sharpening ponds category.

[@lawrence1md]

@ I’ll have to give it a go. I don’t like standing at the sink. Hehehe

[@jpo31]

Hi Bill. Nice demonstration. I have not experimented allot with strops. If the last step on the stones is a 20 foot wheel, and the strops have the same shape, wouldn't you introduce convexity behind the apex since the bevel is shaped like the stone? To compensate you could use slightly smaller wheel shaped strops, which might give a different result (just thinking out load here), and introduce less convexity. Do you need to go back to your first step to recreate some of the concavity created by the first step? The 20k is quite fast, so I would think that the shape of this stone will quickly dominate over the first step. I need to get me some of those packing peanuts. A human hair is roughly 80-100 micron. During a cut, at 50% of that it starts to fold over, and the cutting resistance reaches a peak and drops. That mean that the effective part we are trying to thin out is only 40-50 microns. Everything behind that point just effects the flexibility/stiffness of the edge. It really does not take much to add a little thickness at 50 microns behind the apex. As long as the end result is good, that's the most important part.

[@billm.2677]

@@jpo31 HI John and thanks. I cannot be sure how the stropping progression may bring a shape change. Visually, there is polishing, mostly towards the apex. I try to skew the razor a bit while stropping to work some polishing action further back in the bevel. I have found it beneficial and sometimes necessary to jump back and forth on the curves to try to balance the contact area or get more back bevel clearance for later steps. Once I am in the zone I want, it is not too hard to overtake one curve with the other and go back and forth. On bigger razors I like to try to see 1/3 contact areas for three curves. I try but the smaller/thinner razors are hard for me to get more than a 50/50. If you send me a private message on the Cadre with your address, I be glad mail you a bag of ‘Bill Certified’ packing peanuts. It is absolutely vital that news of this transfer does not get into the hands of Greta Thunberg, they are a plastic. Oh, and ‘do not’ feed them to your pet whales, even if you need more whale oil. 🤣

[@jpo31]

@@billm.2677 ' I try to skew the razor a bit while stropping to work some polishing action further back in the bevel.' When you skew the razor the effective stone radius increase, and as a result you are working at the apex and not further back. The smallest effective radius is at 90 deg perp to the side of the stone. I like to end on my stones with a skew just to clean up the edge for this reason. I also like to bend the bevel at a slight skew angle, by increasing the pressure. So, during my half strokes the front part will lift off the stone.

[@billm.2677]

@ Do not forget that I am working on stones and strops with a 25’ long dimension curve and a 6’ cross crown where skewing moves contact backwards. My rocks with smaller curves in their long dimension contain a 25’ cross crowning and produce the effect of moving contact forwards when a skew is used. The ‘grinders handbook’ does not appear to specify curve dimensions or cross crowning that folks like me are using to describe things we work with these days. I think those 25’x6’ ellipse dimensions that Jarrod ultimately settled on for his shaping device were influenced by what he observed and discussions he had with Solingen tradesmen. I had read somewhere that in the dressing of grinding wheels of multiple applications it was not an uncommon practice for tradesmen to impart a cross crown. And, I am obviously very jealous of the versatility of the JPO Plate. 😀 I have probably taken advantage of the flexing of the bevel more times than I am actually aware of. I do believe that on occasion I have experienced it deliberately on thinner grinds.