Correcting Tall Wall Framing Mistakes - Part 2

We discuss a potential solution to correct a common tall wall framing mistake. Stacking walls to make an overall tall wall can be a cheap option, but there are many structural flaws in building a tall wall in this manner. From excessive bending leading to drywall cracks, all the way to failure of the wall studs, this construction method must stop.
0:00 - Previously…..
0:08 - Intro
0:38 - The #1 Way to Correct Tall Wall Framing Mistakes
0:51 - Correcting Issue 1, Load Path
1:43 - Correcting Issue 2, Discontinuous Stacked Wall
2:45 - Mechanics of Tying Wall Studs Together Using a Tension Strap
3:33 - The Proper Way to Build a Wood Tall Wall
Tall Wall Framing Mistakes Part 1: • This is Not How to Fra...
Connect With Me:
Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jxg
Instagram: / ewb_theculture
Music Credits:
Skagbeats - Old Town • (FREE FOR PROFIT) J. C...
C Y G N - Spiritual Mind chll.to/7887b380

[@newcityconsultants]

The tension strap will need to placed both sides of the wall since wind has a suction component therefore the tension side can be on the exterior or interior side of the stud wall.

[@clutteredchicagogarage2720]

I like your solution. At first I thought that you should have straps on both sides, but I think it would be fine to use straps on the inside and sheathing across the hinge on the outside. You need sheathing on the outside anyway, and lining it up with the middle of an 8’ sheet at the hinge line would be fine. If your straps are, for example, 1/8” thick, would it be ok to route, plane 1/8” of thickness from the 2x4s where the straps are located and just add other 2x4s next to those for extra vertical strength? That way everything could sit flush, which might make things easier for the drywall crew… or I guess you could shim out the drywall by the width of the straps by raiding every hardware store in the area for as many free paint sticks as they have in stock…

[@travelsizearchitect]

Great channel! please keep adding videos, we need them! :)

[@rezzbuilds8343]

I'm a third year framing apprentice, I love these videos this is like extremely important information Where's the not a lot of resources for

[@JthaEngineer]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MyFortressConstruction]

Just subbed. Keep it up with the technical, yet practical building science. Many framers/contractors don't understand why they do what they do. Your information could go a long way in helping the trades get better. 👍 Oh, and LVL studs for a tall wall every day of the week!

[@JthaEngineer]

Appreciate it!

[@tony39572]

I did a renovation that resulted in a stacked wall, the structural engineer called for ltp4 every 12 inches. I don’t see this use table in the catalog, but it’s an interesting usage.

[@dylanbolton6297]

Great vid!

[@joelgerard7869]

Hey man. Great videos! Coming from a fairly novice level of understanding of framing principles, this really helps me think a little deeper about better practices and things to think about when designing/building a structure.

[@JthaEngineer]

Happy you enjoyed Joel!

[@youarehere1251]

Even if you don’t do your own work, it still a good idea to know how to do it the right way, passing inspection the first time. PS: I just shot down the idea of framing my own detached ADU with tall wall.

[@Cander509]

A triple 14” LVL ribbon. Problem solved. Also gives you the perfect nailer for the fruity bump out or soffit the architect will surely call for.

[@arturzych138]

Love it

[@scottjackson638]

Great video. May I ask a question from the perspective of a non-engineer? It is confusing that the tall wall did not have at least some studs that span the entire height of the wall. In the absence of such studs, it would seem that there is a hinge point at the middle plate located about half way up the wall. I am surprised that the building code does not require at least some continuous studs to avoid having a hinge point in the wall. I would be surprised if a competent framer would construct the wall in the manner shown because the hinge point is so disturbing (either the initial construction or even the corrected construction). As a novice, I would see the construction of the wall (again, either the initial construction or the corrected construction) to cast doubt on the competence and judgment of the builder.

[@JthaEngineer]

Scott, all great & valid points. There’s nothing I can respond to because I would question their competence as well. In addition, this solution is a very ugly solution that I would only recommend under special circumstances. A tall wall should always be constructed with continuous studs just like any average wall with appropriate sizes studs.

[@angeldiaz9113]

Hey Jay, what software did you use to model the solution you proposed?

[@nathanharbold5788]

Do you need 3 studs in the middle of lower wall and upper wall? I noticed 3 in the video

[@danabryan709]

I enjoyed your video and appreciate you sharing your insight and knowledge. I am currently working on a house (in MI) from the 1800's that has been added several times since then. The area (kitchen) I am working on appears to be added after 1913. I noticed the outside boards (1" thick) were hung vertically and the inside boards (also 1" thick, tongue and groove) were hung horizontally. The studs were placed in the both corners and one in the center and a 6' window opening (added in 1970's). Do you know the logic behind the board orientation?

[@JthaEngineer]

The board orientation probably has to do with fastening the studs in it’s strong axis to prevent the board from bending when something lateral (wind) pushes on it. I’m assuming the inside boards are fastened directly to the studs and there’s a layer of sheathing between the stud & the boards. Is that correct?

[@johnwooten7775]

So I have a question, Let say your building a wall that is 16' high, 60 long and only supported by the walls on the ends. How do I determine what size lumber to use, and any special blocking or braising that would be needed?

[@beachcruzer]

Q question for you how far can I spend a 2 × 12 of Select or grade one Lumber with only support at each end and a minimum snow load of 21 PSI most likely be using structural select, grade 1 or Douglas fir using it for roof trusses on a flat roof I want to spend them across

[@jimslama990]

Are you using autocad for the drawings?

[@bry2k]

Thanks for this. Question: On post-frame homes, they build very tall columns with interleaved 2x4's or 2x6's, ie, 3 or more studs nailed/bolted together with the one in the middle running short and the one above it inserting into the gap for some specified distance to create one very long/tall continuous column. What do you think of that approach for tall walls?

[@JthaEngineer]

That idea can work. I have designed some tall walls with double or triple studs. It’s not my first option but it is an option.

[@scottallen5269]

I like what you did, with correcting weak areas in the framing. I’ve been in construction for 25 years, starting as a framer and have learned most of the other trades. Do you think using a continuous header on both upper and lower sections would help? And I’m curious to know, what you think about sway braces notched in walks... Keep up the good work!!!

[@JthaEngineer]

My initial idea was to put a continuous ledger along the hinge point as you suggested but nobody liked the idea of having a bump out in their wall. I’ve never tried the bracing idea and I would probably try to avoid something like that. Not because I think it’s bad but I think I would have a hard time working the contractors where I work to doing something like that. But I do think it’s interesting and I would like to try doing something like that under the right circumstances.

[@scottallen5269]

@@JthaEngineer The ledger idea would be functional, but the eye sore of the bump out, can be an issue. In a couple cases, I have switched the top plate of the lower wall, for 14” and 16” LVL. And ran the overhang of the LVL to the interior. Then when we did the interior trim, we wrapped with identical material to the trim package. Even added decorative corbels on one. The homeowners liked the look and for some people, plant shelves give them a place for art or other decorative taste they have. Not for everyone, but it does add another option, in your bag of tricks. Steel I-beams have been used in 2 by 6 walls,and in one case I’ve used a 3/4” by 3 1/2” steel plate on top of the plates. Just some ideas... thanks for your time Jay!!!

[@AJTarnas]

plywood on one or both sides of the wall, bridging the hinge line (like 2-4' above and below the stacked wall hinge point) should work just as well as those straps, right? or do the straps keep the wall that much more stiff?

[@JthaEngineer]

The straps were a design decision. They still wanted the wall flat as possible without adding more layers of sheets or having some sort of bump out at the hinge point. Ideas like you suggested would have helped stiffen the wall as well. I did hear back & was told that the straps did help stiffen the wall.

[@jimmyv1961]

Correct species of wood? I thought pine studs were pine studs, with the exception of pressure treated or non pressure treated. Great, yet another for me to obsess over.

[@JthaEngineer]

Pine comes in so many different species but the common ones for buildings are spruce pine, southern yellow pine, and western pine. All of them differ in their strength properties.

[@pecacartun]

Hi. May I ask which is the software that you are using in this video? Thanks.

[@JthaEngineer]

Autodesk Revit

[@charlesfield9286]

amen!

[@godtheater]

Amazing info... your methods are excellent... Can ask your opinion of a project in private?

[@JthaEngineer]

Sure. [e-mail]

[@godtheater]

@@JthaEngineer Thank you

[@IVORY123100]

I have never built a tall wall like that .and never will .. But have seen many do it .. Most do it because they think it's easier , faster and they don't have to calculate upper floor , ceiling . roof bearing heights .. I have been sent unto jobs to find simple solutions . One is .. If the lower wall is already built , Remove that top plate and replace it with LVL's that are laid flat , glued and bolted . Projecting inside the room and later dressing it up as a long shelf .. I call it a shear shelf .LOL . Others , had to make custom steel reinforcing brackets that tied the top to bottom of the king/jack pack . Been doing carpentry 40 years . Seen a lot of stupidity . Worked for one contractor that put aluminum roofing nails in HUS hangers supporting a boatload of weight..He told me " It's just needs a nail " .. I said .. why not use a thumbtack ?? . Throughout the years I have had my fair share of engineers, architects and inspectors that I had to debate . Some inspectors are the worst because many don't know what they are looking at and interpret through code . Show them engineering and the stamp ,Generally will quiet them . One engineer was adamant about the way I framed a wall and demanded it be changed .I was livid !! . The Deal was .. In some homes , I will attach the header to the bottom of the top plate and frame down to the window height . He insisted I set the header at the window height and cripple up to the plate .. Claiming wind shear .. I asked " Aren't the wind loads equal on this wall and by that token of logic I shouldn't cripple up to the window sill ?? " If the window's top RO is 28" down from the top plate and the window sill RO is 28" from the sole plate .. Then the wind load is essentially equal ?? .. He wanted the header to be set at window height and cripple up .. I wanted to set the header to the top and cripple down . My reasons were based on fail-safe and structurally better .. The fail safe being . If a window legend is wrong or if a carpenter frames the window height wrong . Then you got to hack everything apart . My structural reason is .. A header at the top , reinforces the lateral movement of the plates the longer the header is . and the amount of intervals to the sole plates is reduced and a better pathway to the sole plate . Mine was Sole /Jacks /Header /Top Plate . His was Sole / Jacks / Header / Cripples /Top plate ..I know from experience that small cripples atop headers need to be cut perfectly to distribute top plate load to header ..Unless the carpenter takes into account the rotation in the header . A perfectly cut square cripple can many times have voids .. The load is on the edges of cripples . and the smaller the cripple .. Smashed and nails shanked in every direction . Mine takes the header and I can make sure the jacks are completely in contact and transferring the load directly to the plate .. Less intervals , less potential gaps in the loads pathway

[@thomasglessner6067]

Wow, great presentation and disclaimer. Do it right the first time. Talk to an engineer.

[@Drew-hl7ou]

What app are you using

[@JthaEngineer]

Autodesk Revit

[@alpicard4932]

Any framer should know that

[@Geekmasterproduction]

Good video, I do feel that your proposal was a bit overkill for a residential project. I have framed some 5 story apartments in Atlanta and your design/fix is pretty much identical to alot of the structural /shear wall requirements that I have seen on those 5 story podium projects. On residential 2 story jobs we typically offset the sheathing to tie the 2nd floor, joist and first floor with a 8 ft. sheet, same thing would apply to tall wall. In your analysis you have to factor in sheathing and even nailing requirements, that is a huge component. Subbed, wish you channel success.

[@JthaEngineer]

Thank you & thanks for your input! I definitely chose to be more conservative. I wasn’t as concerned about it performing as a shear wall than I was as far as the wall being able to stand upright when high winds push on it.

[@ricoludovici2825]

@@JthaEngineer Could use a little more strap for California. I'm also thinking the king studs by the right hand windows could be THREE by fours. And there would surely be a horizontal strap across all the sills to hold he wall together laterally. And stagger the sheeting vertically like the fellow up there said so no hinge.

[@OOpSjm]

Definitely not overkill. Standard proposal to remedy stacked multistory tall wall in residential construction. Recently I experienced a stacked wall bellowing when the front door (12ft) was opened and closed.

[@dane9175]

When I balloon frame I never use 2x4./ 4 x4 or 4 x6 the quality of a 2 x4 Are horrible you can never find a 20 foot straight 2 x 4😎

[@victorhgomez2318]

I’m surprised you been an engineer don’t call for Balloon framing, NEVER build a tall wall like that. if the wall is 2 x4 the studs should be double up to 12 feet. If it’s taller than that, you use 2x6 studs at 12” centers. Very simple.

[@LKline81]

Why not balloon frame it and shear/fire block the shit out of it..? It would be much stronger... 16' and 20' lumber is readily available.. Platform framing came about because it takes less skill to construct. It's not better than platform framing a 2 story house.. Jut my two cents. Thanks for the videos

[@youarehere1251]

Solution: Shit load of studs and lots of glue and screws.