Could Luthen really be a Jedi? Or are there other explanations? (Andor Theory)

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[@Hykje]

Years back when they were neighbors back in Naboo Palpatine borrowed Luthen's lawnmower and never returned it -Luthen never forgave him for that.

[@matthewwheeler469]

This is my head Canon.

[@Himmy1984]

This would be the most original thing in Star Wars. Finally have someone with a very trivial grudge. I love it! Headcannon for sure!

[@Himmy1984]

Made my mind a sunless place. (I loved that lawnmower)

[@Hanoua2]

Luthen tought that palpatine was waving his hand at him so he waved back but he was actually waving to someone else behind him. Since that day, Luthen only has revenge in heart

[@KS-cz9qc]

This explains so much

[@Taxxxxxxes]

I like the idea of him coming across a light saber and carries it around for protection just because he has a light saber doesn’t mean he’s a Jedi

[@MrDiplomatSwag]

I always wonder what happened to the thousands of jedi lightsabers that were dropped during the purge. A couple had to be picked up by regular people.

[@hansdampf640]

He got a Mask of a Jedi-Temple Guard in his Shop... that alone tells me he´s not a Jedi (maybe he was...)

[@rogerpalsgrove9678]

He's like a space James Bond at this point. I just enjoy the mystery surrounding Luthen. I don't know how much I would want revealed.

[@mikepette4422]

thats exactly how I think. I dont need to know it all. this is good for now

[@kimwand]

Same here, his spacecraft is basically a DB7.

[@Kevin_Street]

That's a good point. It may be best to leave it to the imagination.

[@rogerpalsgrove9678]

I definitely want to have the veil pulled back a little more.

[@rogerpalsgrove9678]

@@kimwand kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3qyg5-BoL-VjZI

[@GrievousReborn]

I don't think he's a Jedi but I think he has an interest in them

[@Scorkey333]

I think he has ties to Lyra Orso, Jyn's mother. She was an archeologist and had ties to studying Khyber crystals. It could also explain how the Orso's met Saw Guerrera, something which was never fully explained in Catalyst or Rogue One.

[@pablovalenzuela907]

One of the major themes in this show is also how the rebellion has to do some dark and shady things to stir up a rebellion. With that in mind, I actually think it is very possible he is a former Jedi who has become so ruthless in his opposition to the empire that he is now relying on the dark side. “I’ve made my mind a sunless space.” That line sounded like something he would say because he has turned to the dark side. It would fit perfectly with the theme of dark things needing to be done to create the rebellion. Also, his ship’s space lightsabers are red!

[@Urielization]

In the bombing of the Jedi temple in the clone war series we see that there are normal people working on the temple. He could be just one of the worker. On the other hand in legends there used to be other works the Jedi temple did in legends like the agricorps Jedi who went to worlds to help with crops using the force and there was also a archaeology.

[@joeclaridy]

I think it would be a grave mistake making Luthen a Jedi.

[@dereklopez9060]

I prefer him not to be a Jedi, I think that would defeat the whole purpose of the show that ordinary people can also start a Rebellion without a Jedi's aid.

[@siiir1322]

This show is way to smart to come out in the last episode and bullshit at us with: did you know Luthen actually was one of the temple guards during order 66 😂😂

[@joeclaridy]

@@dereklopez9060 it is the lack of force users that makes this show impactful in my eyes because it shows the galaxy is bigger than the Skywalkers. Unfortunately it is the lack of force users that has driven off so many potential viewers

[@joeclaridy]

@@siiir1322 never underestimate Disney ability to screw up a good thing.

[@thesean3194]

I agree. I like his mercenary/smuggler type path they have him currently showing.

[@BBDragon66]

I would float the idea that he had a son or daughter that was a jedi that was killed and the saber/crystal was from them and why it is so important to him. Maybe he had to watch from afar as his child grew up after being taken away from him, and as the jedi failed to protect his progeny, he will take revenge on the Empire. Maybe he has some force sensitivity which helps his reflexes and abilities, but not near enough to be a jedi.

[@Introvertedtroy]

I rather it be this. More original

[@BHBricksNfigs]

One problem with that is he would be way to old to have had a son or daughter killed in order 66. The theory that he's dukus old apprentice makes more sense.

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

This is the idea that I like.

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

@@BHBricksNfigs Way too old? Men continue producing sperm our whole lives. Luthen's actor Stellan Skarsgård fathered 8 children, the youngest was born in 2012.

[@tunasandwich395]

I had the idea that maybe he was a Separatist spy during the Clone Wars and now that the Republic is the Empire he is still trying to fight back as a Rebel since the CIS I suppose is no more. I thought that would at least explain his espionage guerilla warfare skills.

[@jtfire2447]

I need to watch this show.

[@otakubullfrog1665]

The problem for Jedi trying to hide after Order 66 wouldn't just be imperials actively searching for them, but the fact that any random citizen who knows or suspects who they are might turn them in either because they genuinely believe the Jedi to be traitors who tried to assassinate the leader of the then-Republic or because they hope to get some sort of reward from the now-Empire. It makes sense that Obi-Wan and Yoda are both hiding out in the middle of nowhere while they wait for the right time to make their moves.

[@stevenle9960]

I think he was an antiquities dealer before the empire. It seems like it's something he's been doing for a while and he's trying to keep up appearances by continuing to play the character, similar to what mon mothma was doing

[@stevebreedlove9760]

Yes. A good motivation for an aficionado of galactic cultures would be the empire's erasure of cultures.

[@mellofan2012]

This is the best theory so far, and the reply perfectly explains it. He could have acquired his skills having done many other things throughout his life. Perhaps he grew old of that life and ended up dealing with antiquities to relax and retire to something he actually had a passion for. But then the empire ruined it, and he’s forced back into the fighting etc

[@Droidsbane]

I think he's probably a Clone Wars Veteran that knew a Jedi personally, and their death at the hands of the Empire is what's driving him at least

[@ИванСнежков-з9й]

That's my theory too.

[@KronnangDunn]

Maybe he was secretely married to a Jedi like Padme did... and the death of his loved one is the reason for taking revenge on the Empire.

[@Droidsbane]

@@KronnangDunn hm, that seems like a possibility too

[@thorskywalker]

I think that's a solid theory. It's not going to surprise me at all if there is a "Jedi connection".

[@nevertrustatory9412]

Like Rostek Horn and Nejaa Halcyon in the Corran Horn EU books.

[@joshfrier2287]

I’ve been thinking about this and I happen to think that he had a child who was a Jedi. He has a kyber crystal but it’s blue so that pretty much rules out sith. His cane looks like a hilt. I think it belonged to his child who was a Jedi and when he looked into the unbelievable story that every Jedi was a traitor he figured out it was all a lie and now he’s on a revenge tour via rebellion. Just a theory

[@derek4579]

I like this theory the most.

[@MClapYourHands]

I like this idea as well. Though, it could also be that he was friends or in a relationship with a Jedi. Regardless, I think these are much better options than Luthen being one himself.

[@ToastyMuppet]

I love this idea!! Kinda like how am exception was made for Ki-Adi-Mundi to have a wife Luthen was still allowed contact with his child/ partner

[@EnragedTofu]

I’d like to think that the Jedi Sentinel mask & some of the artifacts observed in his shop are his and he failed to protect the temple, including the Younglings. Losing the temple and the order spiritually decimated him. He’s so beyond in the area of tactics & strategies, is treated with a sort of subtle reverence by Kleya & Vel; the man would know to keep both a low profile yet hide in plain sight, also mentions sharing his plans with “ghosts” and the khyber crystal he gave Andor may be his own saber’s (hilt seen in ep.11). This Wookieepedia entry as well has me convinced now, “the Sentinels suffered fewer casualties than the other Jedi in service to the Order due to their ability to remain anonymous”.

[@ericreinholt8838]

We really don't need any more secret surviving jedi. Part of what made Order 66 so devastating was that the jedi were all but wiped out and the rest hunted down by Vader. The more we get surviving jedi, the more it makes the empire and Vader pretty incompentent and less menacing

[@MedalionDS9]

No, that would totally defeat the purpose of this show... the Rebellion is what the regular people who are not Force Sensitives do to fight against the Empire... the Jedi specialize in taking down the Dark Side users. Tony said this show is not about Jedi and the Force, so I will hold them to that.

[@dgjedi3]

Not everybody has to be a jedi. This is a amazing show with great story telling. I'm totally fine with the pace of it. It seems just because there's no jedi, new characters, it's own pace not constant action its not received well

[@420bengalfan]

i think its gotten far more apathy on people not caring about star wars as much in general as people disliking this show in sepcific

[@dgjedi3]

@@420bengalfan that's a fact. I know as a fan stuff like the moves episodes 8&9 and Fett almost took me out of it all together

[@darkphoenix2]

I don't think it would add anything to the story other than a "surprise!" moment. Luthen can be the same character regardless of his background. A Jedi hiding in plain sight or a former spy hiding in plain sight, there isn't a huge difference. All we'd gain is a quick thrill when he suddenly pulls out his lightsaber, and then the moment would be over and we'd start asking questions like "why doesn't he look for other Jedi?" It wouldn't be worth asking the audience to just go with it, when everything else so far has felt so natural and logical.

[@emtron5000]

I agree with most of your points. I was really interested in him making sure his callsign was from Alderaan. Maybe because he would give off no bad vibes since Alderaan is known to be a peaceful planet? Or perhaps he has a connection there?

[@fumfering]

(Edited to remove a dumb remark) I like your analysis. Purely from a dramatic point of view, the character adds a whole lot more meaning to the show if he has no special powers or status. Whether he's ex-military, a former Republic operative, or just a Han Solo level smuggler who manages to pull off a class act, he demonstrates both the power and the tragedy of self sacrifice in a way no Jedi I've seen has.

[@siiir1322]

We 100% wont see a Jedi or Sith in Andor. A great take from another KZbinr was: „andor feels so real and well made, you can’t imagine that this is the same franchise in which a black hooded fairytale witch called Sidious screaming „unlimited poowaaaa“ is walking around on the same planet“

[@jeffreyroedel9804]

It's a huge assumption that Luthen being revealed as a former Jedi has to make sense. It could be more of a surprise for shock value at a crucial moment where a use of the Force is necessary, for sure. I'd love to see him be the brother of a Jedi. He had the same potential as a child but chose not to go that path or washed out of the Padawan program. Changed his name and persona (as we've seen he's a great actor) and after Order 66 kills his brother and most of the other Jedi, Luthen begins working to fight the Empire in his own ways as revenge.

[@gozogo1233]

you sound like a legends fanboy since EVERYONE in legends is a jedi some reason

[@michaelmichaelagnew8503]

Well since the Jedi were taken as babies or around 2 years old at the most. Most likely if he had a family he really never knew them, and if he had siblings they didn't know him either. This is from the Jedi perspective in the old republic. Think this was practiced ever since Yoda joined the order when he was young.

[@theswagunicorn1431]

I think Luthen was some sort of commanding officer in the Republic and went along with the Empire. He then quit once he to do something awful or multiple awful things, thus the Empire stole his humanity. So he is now using that deficit of humanity to make the tough choices and strike back. This also explains his high flying moves and what the Empire took from him. Maybe the Empire killed his family for dishonorable discharge too.

[@michaelmichaelagnew8503]

His skills are really refined to be an agent in the military or pulled from the military to work in some type of agency equivalent to like the CIA or MIS. He is very intelligent and cunning, organized when it comes to planning and making things happen from the shadows. These skills are taught and don't come natural.

[@Carcat25]

100% chance he has a lightsaber. 85% chance he has a good understanding of the force from an observers point of view 60% chance he has some functional level of force connection 20% chance he's some sort of Jedi/Padawan/Major direct connection to jedi order

[@larsolofsson7226]

From my point of view I see Luthen started his out as a part of covert special ops and was an highly trained agent that specilised in deep undercover work. But later on showed remarkable leadership and big picture thinking, got his James Bond schtick promoted up to M class. I meen at times it seems he is playing 4d chess and everyone else just regular chess. And something really fucked him up during end of the clone wars, perhaps the now empire tried to take him out and only succeeded in wiping out his family. After that he just went by his old playbook, deep undercover slowly building up his network of cells of agents and undercover assets. And I think all the not so sutle jedi/sith references is doing its job perfectly keeping us guessing and talking and being invested in what is one of the most intriguing Star Wars characters ever ^^

[@jayplay8140]

Remember when Obi Wan mentioned he had a brother out of the blue, thats Luthen Kenobi

[@rekthereaper3760]

His ship with the two blades that came out. Made me feel like his staff would be double bladed

[@davidgoldbury7345]

My thought is that he is a Jedi historian that was in the temple when order 66 started and he saw all his jedi friends die so he wanted to get back at the empire that would explain all the jedi and Sith artifacts that he has.

[@JasonF9000]

I don't think Luthen being a Jedi cheapens anything. I like the idea that he has literally given up everything, including his lifelong identity as a Jedi in focusing all his effort on revenge; on balancing the equation. And he knows there's no coming back from this. Jedi, Fallen Jedi or an ordinary person he's still one man, the rebellion is bigger than him and I think they do a good job showing that.

[@charles52able1]

I wonder if he was one of Dooku's agents similar to the role Q'ira served for Maul. Probably wishful thinking, but I would like if some of Dooku's righteous ideals survived and eventually brought down the evil that had corrupted him.

[@DANCast-yv1is]

I like your comment bro it's pretty cool my theory is and a lot of other peoples theories is that he is Dooku's first Apprentice Averross Rael and now that I know little more about the Jedi Averross Rael I'm starting to think there one in same person

[@marvelousmikereviews]

I think Luthan is either a Dark Jedi or a Sith, "A Sith only deals in absolutes..." This is "personal" for Luthan, against Palpatine. I may be wrong, his motivation isn't liberty but vengeance.

[@fuzzdad2]

I suspect either a close friend or his wife or son/daughter was either a Jedi or force-sensitive. That person's death drives him to this day. He has great combat skills...maybe was an officer or something and clearly he has access to wealth and access to the best equipment.

[@HarryCochran]

I think Luthan is a Jedi sentinel, mostly because I want the sentinels to be canon

[@amadeussentre8567]

Luthen was a janitor at the Jedi Temple.

[@suros8105]

I agree that Luthen Rael being some sort of Jedi would cheapen his character's impact, but at the same time everyone around him is an every day person. In one of the videos making the Jedi connections (where the creator of the video expressed they also wouldn't want him to be a Jedi) it is mentioned that Dooku had a padawan named Rael Averross. 100% could just be coincidence but the connection is there. Rael's wiki page (for what that's worth) expresses that he was a Jedi but went about things in his own way. Also the walking stick hilt (which I wish you had verified before making this video) in the first arc is black and clearly metallic. The thing he has with him in episode 11 is brown and looks wooden. If he is a Jedi I hope that it's revealed after he dies (if he dies) and it's more of a footnote than something the whole show focuses on.

[@garrisong]

Interesting also that Rael Averross used an blue lightsaber, and if I’m not mistaken the kyber crystal he gave Andor had a blueish tinge to it. Probably just coincidence but often if there’s smoke there is fire.

[@theprodigalknight7156]

I finished listening to Master & Apprentice last week and it had occurred to me that Luthen could be Averross. There's good evidence for and against the theory but it is interesting nonetheless.

[@suros8105]

@@theprodigalknight7156 Yeah, and that's the cool thing. We get to talk about it and I was really fascinated by this possibility. I'm glad You left your comment because I personally haven't read that book so I'm glad someone confirmed that the character exists and that there is some legs there that could go either way.

[@isaacmchale8832]

I think Luthen had a secret relationship with a Jedi. (Anakin and Padme couldn't have been the only ones, right?) It explains his kyber crystal, and why he gave it to Cassian. If Cassian died during the heist, the Empire would've found the crystal, sending a clear message that the Aldani operation wasn't just about robbery, but also revenge for Order 66.

[@joshmarsh230]

I think he’s a sort of mirror to Vader. He was the forbidden love of a Jedi who was killed in order 66 and his whole cause is vengeance. The lightsaber is a shrine of sorts. They both fall into darkness but one uses the darkness to bring the light where the other becomes a servant to it.

[@michaelmichaelagnew8503]

The jedi did have a shady side to them that used double lightsabers. I like how he is so mysterious, it brings intrigue to him and the show. It might not be a lightsaber who knows but I'm sure eventually we will get answers in the series whether its next week or a future season.

[@thenobletaco4232]

I always figured his "walking stick" was actually a force pike like Palpatines royal guard use.

[@flatline8580]

Agreed with everyone here. I don't think he's a Jedi, and it would hurt the story (imho) if he turned out to be one. Rogue One and Andor are all about the regular people, getting involved in throwing off the chains of tyranny. Luthen may not be a regular person, exactly... but he's just special in his own non-Jedi way. That said, he's a fascinating character! And I *want to know more*! Can't believe we only get two seasons of this show!

[@MrGpad]

The fact that he’s hanging around on Coruscant, enforces the fact that he’s not a Jedi. Would be pretty dumb for a Jedi to hang around in Coruscant, in a prominent social position no less.

[@MedalionDS9]

I think people are looking at the wrong kind of Lucas franchise who Luthen is based on... not a Jedi... but think more... Indy. There were easter eggs for Indiana Jones in Luthen's shop as much as Star Wars... he may be a collector of rare artifacts, including Jedi/Sith ones, that's why he has things inspired by the Jedi all over his shop and own himself personally but he is not a Jedi himself... nor does he ever quote or talk about them to anyone so far we have seen.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

He could be Count Dooku's first apprentice. Too much fits perfectly, they even have the same name. It would explain a lot. I would like to think that Dooku had a small contingency for Rael as a means of revenge. A safe-house or small CIS military installation with credits, weapons, a ship and a database of CIS intelligence agents and assets.

[@yosemitejam]

Luthen has a Sith affiliation, like Chirrut Imwe did with the Jedi, and those are red lightsabers on his ship, that’s kind of a hint don’t you think?

[@WD-41469]

Man, I can’t wait for Luthen to try on that Sith armor in his shop.

[@armymanDR]

I think based on what he said during his “what I have sacrificed” speech to the ISB officer it’s obvious he’s been fighting this fight for a long time. I think it could be possible/really cool if he actually used to be a separatist in the clone wars, and now he’s fighting what the republic has become

[@Offbreed309]

Random shot in the dark here, but I feel like the reason for Luthen's motivation (aka the person the Empire took away from him) is also his link to the Jedi.

[@TjwillDamaverick1]

Since he collects old things I bet that stick is one of those first light sabers that have a cord that attaches to a battery pack on his belt

[@TwistedCarbonite]

Luthen answers to nobody but himself- and that is what makes him so compelling.

[@TheRogueAssassinX3]

I think Luthen is a former ISB agent from back when the Empire was coming into power.

[@mrcat3493]

JRR Tolkien once wrote, “ ‘the wheels of the world’, are often not turned by the Lords and Governors, even gods, but by the seemingly unknown and weak..” This is the story of Andor, to introduce a Jedi or Sith as the prime mover robs the “unknown and weak” of their agency to resist the Empire.

[@Kevin_Street]

My theory is very close to one you mentioned in your video. I think he was a rich and powerful man who had a child join the Jedi order, then that child was murdered by Order 66. After that something bad happened to "Luthen" and his family, killing everyone but him. He survived, built a new identity as Luthen the antiquities dealer, and now lives only for vengeance. He may not even look the same as he once did, undergoing the Star Wars equivalent of plastic surgery to gain a new identity. This mostly fits with the theme of the show, since we would be seeing the human cost of Order 66. Not for the Jedi, but for their relatives left behind. The Jedi themselves may not have known who their parents were, but the parents could keep track of the children they gave up, especially if the Jedi's names were publicly accessible. I imagine Luthen as a powerful man who tracked his child's career from afar, who was devastated when they were declared traitors and executed. He may have started asking questions about Order 66 and what the Jedi were really guilty of, and that brought down the fury of the Empire on his remaining family.

[@andyn46]

Something I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention about this show is how it proves that diversity never bothered Star Wars fans. This is by far the most diverse cast we’ve had from SW, with a non white lead, a prominent lgbt relationship, and several other POC all perfectly performed and written. The problem was always the writing

[@ericl2473]

I think Luthan is really Ruwee Naberrie, Padme amidala’s father. I don’t have any proof other than Calia sounds like Leia, who could be Padme’s sister.

[@NoahLodell-nk8nj]

I think Luthen's a Clone Wars veteran who fought in a local planet resistance, like Cham Syndulla or the Gerreras, and formed a close bond with a now dead Jedi who fought alongside him

[@robeckel4965]

I at first thought that his walking cane could also be a lightsaber, but now I think it's actually a vibroblade dagger, based on the action figure photos. We'll probably see him use it in Ep 12. I do think he has some history with the Jedi before the fall of the empire, but may not have been a Jedi himself.

[@christopherdaffron8115]

For me it really comes down to whether Tony Gilroy wants the audience to know Luthen's backstory or not. If he does, then all will be revealed, and we won't have to speculate.

[@allwalledup]

This. I have complete faith in gilroy.

[@Jason-gt2kx]

Dude, let the show writers do whatever they want. Everyone complains about the second episodes in the 3 episode arcs They are critical to making the 3rd show be a great payoff! Now, fans want to keep Jedi's out of the story. I just really appreciate that we finally have a good star wars show since Mandolorian. Fans should stop being so critical and just appreciate how great this show is! Top quality writing, acting and directing.

[@robertbarnes9211]

I think Luthan Rael was some kind of Force user before 66 (maybe Jedi Temple guard because they were anonymous?). Since that time his anger, hatred and lust for revenge have driven him to becoming a Dark Side user. That's what he meant by, "I'm forced to use the tools of my enemy to defeat him." I think that's pretty good if I'm right. Just because one character in the show is a Force user doesn't take away from the fact that it's telling the stories of people who aren't.

[@eclipped]

I love all this speculation, everybody has their own ideas for certain aspects/characters of the show, it’s just created such a “safe” talking point for Star Wars so to speak toxicity wise

[@mastercheeks2]

Jedi or not he knows how to handle himself Tbh would like to see him have a conversation with Vader but whatever

[@rlosable]

I would hate it, if he was a Jedi, but I think he could have a connection with them. Maybe he was in love with one. Or a Jedi saved him/his family. My favorite (not exclusove to the previous ideas): the Jedi was the one who got Luthen on this path and died fighting the Empire.

[@ikediamond]

Luthen literally pulled the old Jedi mind trick on Saw’s guards as one was examining the hilt quixotically.

[@MCsCreations]

Perhaps he was a non force user who worked in the Jedi temple as a young man, perhaps working with Kyber crystals. Who knows.

[@barneseffect]

Luthen doesn't have to pop out and ignite his lightsaber to entice a powerful statement, it doesn't even have to be explicitly said.. It's the fact that he WAS a Jedi, brought to his knees while everyone he cared for and knew is now dead. He likely swore against the force to manipulate the situation just as his enemy did. That's the only way they will win, is if he stoops to Palpatine's level. This would actually give a lot more gravity to Palpatine's line "If they [the Jedi] are not all destroyed, it would be civil war without end"

[@mambaboxingclub2040]

It’s gotta be deeper than that. I could see him as an imperial officer in the beginning. Maybe working his way up after serving in the clone wars. Maybe he was moved to a planet with his family for colonizing and getting them under control. I could see him being all the wiser and not wanting to oppress another species, as the empire usually does when it moves in. Perhaps he lost his family in the process. It’s all just speculation till Tony and his brother commit to something if they haven’t already and it’s very possible they don’t even know yet…

[@BaronGrackle]

Another real possibility is that Luthen, as a valuable antiques dealer, happens to OWN A LIGHTSABER. We've seen lightsabers wielded by non-Force characters in both older Star Wars (Han Solo) and modern times (Moff Gideon).

[@jonasplaysguitar81]

It would not shock me to see Luthen with a Sith past. A lot of his speech would speak to a past where Palpatine wronged him in some way and he wants revenge. Just a thought. He has way too many force items in his collection.

[@GreenLightMe]

what is a SITH?? It's a religion. Luthen doesn't seem like the religious type. He's practical. He's ex intelligence.

[@70briareos]

I'm thinking he was in a relationship with a Jedi, like Anakin and Padme. The blue kyber crystal he carries around was from the lightsaber of his Jedi lover, that's why he said it was precious to him.

[@MableM1985]

I think Luthen’s device is a very large Swiss Army knife. As someone who has bemoaned the lack of Swiss Army knives in Star Wars, I am very excited about this possible direction.

[@Tutorial7a]

R2-D2: “Am I a joke to you?”

[@dskidmore]

I actually think it would be really cool if Luthen is a former Jedi turned to the dark side as he tries to form the rebellion, kinda like Count Dooku and the Separatists. Unlike Anakin who does terrible things because he has turned to the dark side, Luthen turns because of the terrible things he's doing. Reinforcing what Andor says in Rogue One about everyone having done terrible things in the name of the rebellion. For me it would give this quote a lot of meaning "What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them." He's talking about subterfuge, killing people, crime, etc but also fear, anger, hate etc. The tools of a Sith which are the complete opposite of his former training. He talks about his sacrifice but I don't feel like we see it much other than leading a double life, until he decides to let the ISB trap work and let people die. I know what is unique/refreshing about the show is that force users aren't present but I feel like the show is about learning to sacrifice/fight for what is good/right. We see Andor and Mon's journeys. If my idea for Luthen were true, we wouldn't get to see his journey but I feel like it would be impactful because we know a lot about Jedi and Sith. There are a lot of holes in his story that would need to be filled for this to be true but I personally think it would awesome and support the themes of Andor. Side note: I think if he were just a Jedi the blades on his ship wouldn't have been red. Jedi have pretty much always just used a simple saber, the Sith/people using the dark side get creative with their blades.

[@MedalionDS9]

I am getting sick of all these prequel stories saying this or that Jedi survived... it really makes the OT look retconned to hell with Yoda saying to Luke the last of the Jedi will he be, when there a tons of them out there

[@GreenLightMe]

exaclty slowly by slow Disney is even ruining the ORIGINALs for me lol. Don't worry Tony wont make him a JEDI, he's Ex intelligence for Bail Organa, i saw the final script.

[@eiden5778]

It was just confirmed to be a knife and not a lightsaber

[@MercenaryPen]

knowing star wars, that knife may well be a vibroknife... they tend to add that capability when they give people actual blades of any sort

[@ryanrichardson9915]

I think he’s just a Force Sensitive. But he’s awesome regardless!

[@mauricerose3082]

"Once they were an Apprentice in The Jedi Order, but somewhere along the way the Failed Jedi wasn't able to measure up to the standards of the Jedi Knights. Either due to a lack of confidence, or too frequently letting their emotions get the better of them, the Failed Jedi now does the best they can to remain out of sight and unnoticed, striving to forget the painful memories of their past. But sometimes, the ideals of Jedi they used to be will flare up and inspire the Failed Jedi to be better than they are, at least for a little while." "In the Expanded Universe, Jedi who failed the Jedi Trials were sent into the Jedi Service Corps via the Council of Reassignment. These Service Corps were formed during the Old Republic era, and were divided into four different Branches, including the: Agricultural Corps, Medical Corps, Educational Corps, and Explorational Corps."

[@zacharyfett2491]

Making Luthen a Jedi or former Jedi or even Force sensitive, would be a shame. This story has thus far including Rogue One, been about the Rebellion; not, “ancient weapons and hokey religions”. I would be disappointed if the showrunners took that track, thereby immediately making all these characters and storyline, fade into the background. Now, with Luthen’s massive den of antiquities, it would not surprise me that he might have a lightsaber.

[@PrincessFionaYT]

I get the impression that Lucian was a politician. Maybe working for the republic and in the beginning working for the empire. He clearly has the gravitas of someone who is used to having power. I think Saw Guerrera is a more likely candidate for being a regular guy you lost something precious to him and rose through the ranks by being merciless. But I think he has a background that’s more detailed from the animated stuff in the comics which I don’t watch.

[@neophytealpha]

If he was a padawan who left the order, had a family, that would make sense, especially if some of his kids were padawans, and he was old republic officer, who became an Imperial officer but left to join the rebellion after his family was killed and opened the art place as a front.

[@wilhud]

I'm thinking he is possibly the spouse of a Jedi who was executed by Order 66. The cane/hilt they drew attention to in this past episode could be a clue. The kyber crystal he gave to Andor that holds importance to him may be another. It could be a great backstory for his hardcore anti-Empire views and definitely a catalyst for his will to defeat it. Maybe he was a pilot in the Clone Wars and developed a romantic relationship with a Jedi ally. Purely speculation, but I think it would be a best of both worlds concept...you have the strong Jedi connection without actually making him a Jedi. It may not be a common thing, but you had the Anakin/Padme relationship, Hera and Kanan in Rebels, why not Luthen and a Jedi? If he himself were a Jedi, then they are really hiding a lot of his actions because he surely would be using his powers to influence people all over the place, rather than going through the trouble of doing it verbally. Would be a Palpatine level manipulator if so and probably on his way to the dark side.

[@stevebreedlove9760]

Anakin was a rarity. Dooku maintained a relationship with his sister and that was also very rare. To say some other random was married to Luthan is to say Anakin's behavior was not uncommon and therefore hardly the stressor as depicted in TCW and RotS

[@Tobris]

I feel like everyone seems to be forgetting a character from Rogue One named Chirrut Imwe. Who had a walking stick and knew about Kyber crystals...

[@joeyyc8515]

Fallen Jedi will make his character arc amazing. Giving up on the Jedi code by embracing levels of the Dark Side, even though he thinks he’s in the right. By embracing the Dark Side, it eventually leads to his own demise.

[@drifteroutdoors]

I think he was a republic officer that was in a relationship with a Jedi when order 66 happened

[@c0lumbo]

Has anyone heard of a character called Antron Bach? He was an antiques dealer who appeared in a short story called 'The End of History' from around 2014. He had been given a bunch of Jedi and other force-related artifacts by a Jedi survivor of order 66 called Master Uvell. Antron helps save the life of a younger female resistance fighter, Miru Nadrinakar, and the story ends with him supposedly sacrificing his life to allow her to escape in his ship. However, Antron's ultimate fate isn't revealed, and the story ends on an ambiguous note of hope that he might yet survive. It's an obscure connection,, but it does seem plausible that Luthen could be based on the same character Antron Bach, and maybe Miru Nadrinakar could even be Klaya Marki. Anyone else know about that story? Am I overthinking it? My other theory was that he was perhaps a founding member of the Church of the Force. There's a whole load of details that would seem to fit very well with them. Given that Andor features a scene set in the deep levels of Coruscant, it would actually be quite odd for the Church of the Force to be absent from the story, given how important they were for keeping the values of the Jedi alive during the time of the Empire. Any thoughts?

[@MasterTim1127]

I think his connection may, and should be as simple as he had a child that was force sensitive that he gave over to be trained as a Jedi. He may not have known her as she grew, but perhaps watched her career from afar. After the purge he now has a personal vendetta against the empire.

[@derek4579]

My theory of Luthen that I hope turns out to be true is that he had a son or daughter who was taken from him as a youngling to be trained as a Jedi. He was against the decision at first, but reluctantly agreed to the Jedi taking said child. Luthen was a former soldier so he utilized his skills with espionage to secretly keep tabs on his child. Then, Order 66 happened. Luthen was devastated that he was unable to protect his son/daughter, and vowed to do everything in his power to destroy the very thing that took his everything. Perhaps his walking stick is the lightsaber that his child used to wield, and although Luthen is not force sensitive, he keeps it as a reminder of what he’s fighting for and as a last line of defense should he he ever need it

[@allanhanson6616]

He acts like an Emporer's Hand as described in the Darkside source book for the old role playing game circa 2001.

[@71Chevelle1989]

I really think Luthen is working with Maul after Order 66. His ship is inspired by the saber staff as well. Imagine Maul being a part of the start of the Rebellion

[@tehShikari]

Luthen is like Gandalf, all he did was give the rebellion a little nudge out of the door..

[@stevebreedlove9760]

I've yet to hear anyone commenting on this bring up that Jyn Erso mom gave her kyber necklace and also talked about the Force. The kyber necklace is a poor piece of evidence. The walking stick is a bit more ambiguous, but the audio description called it a compact walking stick. It looks like a blade or long baton in episode three. It would be cool if he gets to use it in a hand to hand street fight.

[@MedalionDS9]

Very good point. I drew attention to the fact that when Luthen gave Cassian the kyber necklace... it mirrored how Jyn was given a Kyber necklace as well.

[@Jeihira]

If he were to be one, I’m pretty convinced on him being Dooku’s former pad away Rael Averross. Not that I want him to be, but if he was, it seems that might be who he is

[@ericbeier7576]

I like the theory that his child was a Jedi padawan and was executed during Order 66, and that Luthen recovered his crystal and is set down this path of vengeance against the Empire

[@bubbles4769]

I’d personally prefer it if he wasn’t a Jedi. However, Andor has been so good this far that they’ve earned my trust rather than my skepticism. I trust they’d write this in a way that feels natural. I think the biggest thing that points towards him being a Jedi (or at least connected to the Jedi somehow) is the fact that he gives Andor a khyber crystal. That plot thread still is loose too, so it could be resolved in the finale. That said, somebody needs to serve as the connection between the rebellion and the remaining Jedi like Yoda and Obi Wan. Luthen is certainly a good candidate to be that person.

[@Jedishill680]

Friend of a Jedi is a pretty nifty way to make him special

[@digitaldog120521]

i still say: master uvall. uvall fought in the clone wars, escaped 66, went into hiding as a artifact collector.. fits luthan, better then just some random dude, or even luthan was master uvall's, claira. but i do see your point: this story seems to be showing some of the background character stories that made it all possible.

[@LumVaughan]

If anything, Luthen is Sith, not Jedi. Having recently read Darth Plagueis, he reminds me a lot of Plagueis. Remember, Luthen's 'lightsaber' ship had red blades and that might be more than coincidence. We always assume that all Sith are diabolically evil and cruel, yet they can be charming and even care about certain people. Luthen's motivation, if he was a Sith could be to topple Palpatine. At this point there were only Palpatine, Vader and Maul, as actual (or former) Sith, but there were plenty of Inquisitors and I could certainly see another Sith Lord wannabe who was trying Palpatine's 'phantom menace' approach.

[@cacogenicist]

No way Tony Gilroy goes that route.

[@LumVaughan]

@@cacogenicist I agree, and really, I don't think we need Sith or Jedi in Andor, at least on at the major character level. But there is a darkness about Luthen that worries me, it's more than just a 'fight fire with fire' philosophy too.

[@Lonewolf0840]

IDK, I was against the idea until yesterday when someone explained that he was one of Dooku's padawans. I love this idea. As someone who has only recently come around to Dooku, it just works for Luthen to be his apprentice. Dooku's ideology is what drove him into the hands of the sith, he helped build the very evil he wanted to stop. To use poetry, it would be for his apprentice to surpass him and essentially help bring down Dooku's creation. (yes I know its not Dooku's creation, but he helped) If he is one of Dooku's padawans, I am so down for that. Just some random jedi from the order? I will reject and substitute what I outlined.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

Same name even. Rael. Too much of a coincidence especially with Dooku getting so much spotlight over the past couple years.

[@allwalledup]

This theory is good but there’s an issue: I thought the jedi only were allowed to train one jedi at a time? Just watched phantom menace last night and yoda forbids qui gon from teaching anakin because he’s already teaching obi wan, and we know that dooku already had a padawan in qui gon.

[@Lonewolf0840]

@@allwalledup You are absolutely right. They can only train one student at a time. Obi-wan was not Qui-gon's first apprentice, but his second. His first was "killed" on a mission. Qui-gon refused to take on a second padawan despite yoda insisting, as he questioned himself. Obi-wan was in a sense washed-out of becoming a jedi. He struggled with his abilities and no master wanted him as a student. Even Qui-gon passed on him too, so he was sent to the agricultural corps to use the force to influence crop growth on struggling worlds. A chance encounter with Qui-gon would get him back into the order as Qui-gon's Padawan. Okay, that got longer than I wanted to. Supposedly in legends, Dooku has a second apprentice named Rael. I cannot confirm or deny this as I haven't personally seen or read anything with this padawan of Dooku in it.

[@Lonewolf0840]

@@allwalledup EcksClips is where I heard the theory that changed my mind. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKm2gmdrYt2paLM

[@asabovesobelow5683]

Luthens ship looked like it had lightsabers come out of it. Red lightsabers lol.

[@peterkotara]

His shooting accuracy during the dogfight with the Tie Fighters from the Arrestor Class Cruiser is (from what I could see) 100% accurate, given that the shooting accuracy in the Star Wars universe seem to average ~0.0038%, One could be forgiven for thinking that Luthen was a little bit special. Also the "put it down or give it back" piece of Objet d'art looks suspliously light sabery, there has to be a reason they devoted a few seconds of screen time to it.