Could SAURON and SMAUG Have Formed An Alliance? | Middle-Earth Lore

[@gammon1183]

Sauron riding Smaug would be a sight to behold 🙂

[@MegaGandalf12]

Exactly what Gandalf was afraid of

[@gavhenrad]

Exactly

[@alexanderrobertson3548]

Yes exactly

[@LordEmperorHyperion]

Gandalf the White would've smack them back to Mordor

[@dominicktomko6767]

How do you know that Gandalf feared an alliance between Sauron and Smaug?

[@jakstorm3180]

​@@dominicktomko6767 that was his whole motive to bring the dwarves back to the lonely mountain. He knew

[@xyzzy5821]

If you read Appendix A of LotR, there is a section regarding Gandalf meeting Thorin by chance at the Prancing Pony in Bree. I believe Gandalf mentions that he’d been wanting to speak with Thorin regarding the “dragon problem”. Gandalf was worried about Sauron and Smaug teaming up.

[@scottshapiro2795]

Yeah, I thought that was one of the reasons Gandalf wanted to go to the Lonely Mountain in the first place. He didn't want the possibility of Smaug and Sauron teaming up. Although I forgot if I read that in the appendices, or if that was a creation of the movies...

[@andrewvincent7299]

@@scottshapiro2795 They recreated that scene from the appendices into the movies. Though it was a bit different in the movies as Gandalf intentionally went there to meet Thorin rather than it happening by chance.

[@DenizenoftheAges]

It would have been a terrifying alliance, but time was not on their side. Like you said: Smaug was dead when Sauron was at his closest to regaining his strength.

[@derektaylor8830]

@@IThinkImJudgeJudy69 Smaug never possessed the ring at any point in it’s history.

[@redsledgeblu5234]

Don't think Smaug ever had the ring. He was only ever in its presence when he encountered Bilbo.

[@ChildOfTheWilderness]

But he could have tried earlier to recruit him, by sending an emissary like the Witch King

[@roberthornibrook6344]

What if Sauron and Smaug? Would be a great follow up video!

[@Gokkee]

Yup yup👌

[@brianc9374]

What if smug killed bimbo and claimed the ring

[@CordeliaWagner1999]

Smaug choking on a Hobbit...

[@zorkwhouse8125]

I think one problem would have been that Smaug wouldn't have been willing to give up the ring. As covetous as he is for treasure, I think its well within reason to think that Smaug would have wanted the ring for his own treasure hoard - leading to a showdown between the two perhaps. Also, if Sauron offered him endless treasure for helping him get the ring, Smaug would inevitably begin to look at the ring as being the most important treasure if Sauron is willing to offer so much to Smaug for it - this leading to Smaug only wanting the ring.

[@queenbrightwingthe3890]

Thats a good analyse of the topic. Dragons in lore only care about thier treasure so if someone is willing to offer him more then he will see the ring as the biggest treasure he can have in his already giant treasure hall. He even knew what was on its way when he spooke to Bilbo in the hall.

[@andrewvincent7299]

That is true but would Smaug even stand a chance against Sauron if Sauron regained his ring and his full power? I'm not so sure.

[@zorkwhouse8125]

@@andrewvincent7299 Thsnk you for the response. I guess the idea is that Smaug wouldn't give him the ring. and without it Sauron probably/possibly couldn't take him on.

[@xyzzy5821]

I agree that Smaug would have wanted to keep the ring, but probably wouldn’t have considered the power of it. That said, the ring would have tried to corrupt/control him like others (ex: Gollum) and he would have wanted to keep the ring from Sauron as a very valuable treasure and not so much as a powerful weapon.

[@zorkwhouse8125]

@@xyzzy5821 I agree, I think he would just add it to his hoard. But yeah, the more that Sauron made a big deal about the ring the more Smaug would covet it as a valuable addition to his treasures.

[@marty500]

A what if Sauron + smaug sounds very cool!

[@jacobshore5115]

What if Sauron & Smaug? I’d love to see that! Imagine if they’re fighting in the battle of the pelennor fields, and they think they’re winning, when all of a sudden, a dark shadow flies from Mordor onto the field, and it breathes fire onto the armies of the west! (They might not even need Grond if they had Smaug!)

[@otaku-sempai2197]

I do think that an alliance between Sauron and Smaug would have been possible. However, just allowing Smaug to continue to control the Lonely Mountain might have been enough to keep the Free Peoples of the North from being a major factor in the War of the Ring.

[@andrewvincent7299]

True, if Dale and Erebor had not regained their strength then Sauron's eastern forces of Easterlings would have joined with Khamul and his forces at Dol Goldur to flank the elves of the Woodland Realm and Lorien.

[@CordeliaWagner1999]

Just pile up Gold here and there to keep him busy bringing it to his cave....

[@destin3591]

If you consider the Hobbit movies, Peter Jackson pretty much implied that Smaug and Sauron were in league. In one of the extended scènes Thrain meets Gandalf in Dol Guldur and tells him Thorin should never enter the mountain because the dragon and the one are in league. This implies that Sauron already made contact with Smaug and that Smaug agreed to some terms what ever they may be.

[@queenbrightwingthe3890]

He properly told Smarg he could have the mountain and all its gold if he then agree on not attacking Sauron and his forces. Smarg dont care about world domination he just want his gold.

[@jamesf3871]

While Jackson took far too much narrative license with the Hobbit trilogy, his premise of Smaug and Sauron having the possibility of an alliance is supported by Tolkien. In Appendix A of LOTR, there is a section in which Gandalf is considering the terrible effects of an alliance between Smaug and Sauron, when he has a “chance meeting” with Thorin at the Prancing Pony in Bree, and there they hatched the plan for the Quest for the Mountain. Thorin wanted to reclaim his homeland, and Gandalf wanted to deprive Sauron of a devastating ally in the wars to come.

[@308719236]

@@jamesf3871 Smaug at the very least was very aware of Sauron and his growing power, in the movie he literally mentions the darkness is coming .

[@andrewvincent7299]

@@308719236 Exactly. Sauron didn't really need Smaug fighting for him. He just needed Smaug to keep the Dwarves and Dale from opposing his Easterling forces so they could help the forces of Dol-Guldur defeat the Elves

[@arturleperoke3205]

Smaug is extremly proud, arrogant, greedy and quick to anger - it would be a piece of cake for the Great Deceiver to manipulate the dragon into an alliance as his junior partner. Good video!

[@jeffreed671]

I’m not too well versed on Smaug but it would seem that he at the time had no interest in the world outside his horde he had collected/acquired so I’d think it would be less of an alliance but more of a non-aggression pact

[@willejones1918]

Sauron could have promised a larger horde

[@stevedenis8292]

Smaug would be a great asset until he comes into contact with the oath breakers .Or that he would be immune to any offering since he is happy to sit on his horde of gold Also Sauron doesn't like to share power his own ego might not allow him to even try an alliance but to enslave. This makes for wonderful stories to make up.

[@kein_indianer]

For me there had always been one crucial question. What if Smaug had taken the Ring. The Ring was capable of adjusting to the size of ring bearer. This possibility could have been the reason why Sauron was skeptical to contact Smaug. In this case Sauron wouldn't have been able to get control of Smaug. Smaug could have become the master of all evil.

[@joseolivas5396]

Imagine even if there wasnt an alliance if Sauron, Smaug and Durins Bane had each their own armies and waged war against Everyone at the same time. Imagine the level of destruction and conflict.

[@Scott-bu5cq]

Sauron saw himself as Morgoth's heir. The fallen Valar had clearly taught him a lot. Sauron himself fell to learn from the demigod. Things he could have learned would certainly include arts for the creation and control of dragons. Sauron was capable of forging more items of power. As the greatest craftsman in the world, he could personally make objects not only appealing to dragons, but also influential over them. The Balrogs were peers of Sauron. Dragons were terrifyingly powerful, but ultimately workings of Morgoth, who made them with the means to command them. Sauron was able to corrupt and influence Sarumon, another peer of his. It is hard to overstate just how capable the Lord of the Rings was at bending others to his will.

[@sageofcaledor8188]

great video! What if Sauron and Smaug! I do think an alliance between them is due to fall apart sooner or later

[@msc8090]

I think it would go something like this: they could forge an alliance over their mutual hatred of the Free People and cause some devastation, however I think Sauron would not tell Smaug about the Ring, and once Smaug learns of it eventually, he would try to possess it (Like everybody else does), and from that point the alliance could actually backfire, just like Sauron x Saruman. Interesting afterthought: could Smaug use the ring?

[@liszcgsedt]

Invisible firebreathing dragon? Yes, you want that. :D Also, gathering a gargantuan sum of magic resources over a long period of time to resurrect a long dead dragon (or preventing the villan from accomplishing that) sounds like a very decent D&D campaign plot. More like that stupid "Alias" spy TV show. But dealing by possible planet-wide game changer and motivations of all sorts of paties involved I would love big big time.

[@cwopre]

@@liszcgsedt the ring would more likely make Smaug bigger and more shiny a la “Smaug the Golden” since that would be his desire. The hobbits turn invisible because that’s usually their goal in putting it on

[@mattwstewart205]

This has always sat in my head when rereading the Hobbit! Happy new year gents!

[@rolly1648]

I would love to see a “What if” with Sauron and Smaug being allies and what happens when they fight together.

[@liszcgsedt]

Yes, please, Smaugron alliance, I am all in! ;o) BTW, I appreciate your subtle Shelob reference ... and gather that this thanksgiving would likely play the same way ("I, Smaug the Magnificent desire that one special piece and you promised to give with both hands, o Maia!"). And unline Melkor, Sauron obviously has no balrog guards at hand, so...

[@magatetus]

I think an alliance with Smaug would have been possible, in exchange for more gold and possible dealings of old considering Morgoth created the dragons and Sauron was his lieutenant. Sauron did secure an alliance with Shelob, she guarded his pass and he supplied her with orcs and anything else that trespass.

[@Veldazandtea]

It happens in the game Battle for Middle Earth as well. It's even one of the power abilities in the game to summon Smaug.

[@ИлијаГајић-ю4ф]

Gandalf really was a master tactician. He knew this could happen and so he told Thorin to retake Erebor before Sauron got strong enough for them to form an alliance

[@primal1233]

A Sauron and Smaug alliance would have been a very dangerous alliance and a very dangerous threat to all of Middle Earth😨

[@Bazzstylez]

Legolas could handle smaug but smaug would still count as one

[@queenbrightwingthe3890]

Smarg would properly keep sleeping in the mountain while Sauron took over all of middle earth. He care more for his treasure then taking over the world.

[@andrewvincent7299]

@@queenbrightwingthe3890 That's what would have happened if Smaug was never killed. Sauron didn't need Smaug to fight for him, he just needed him to be in that mountain to keep the Dwarves and Dale from being a threat to his eastern forces. That's why Sauron's campaign against the elves failed. Because the Easterlings were supposed to meet with the forces of Dol-Goldur to defeat the elves but the Easterlings got caught up with the combined forces of Erebor and Dale.

[@ernestcline2868]

I can't see Smaug relocating even on a temporary basis to Mordor to be part of its defense, as that would at least implicitly require Smaug to acknowledge Sauron as his superior. I could see Smaug being tempted or tricked by Sauron into attacking Thranduil's realm, Lothlorien, the Eagles of the Misty Mountains, or Rivendell.

[@CyberUK]

He would also never leave his treasure that far behind him undefended (and he would only ever trust its defence to himself).

[@Huskytabby]

What-if video idea for you to do: What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?

[@KR15nAK]

I would like to see a what if scenario where Smaug aided the orks against Gondor. Maybe even add the elves and a small dwarf contingent to come in just as the knights of Rohan did. To make it even more interesting, add 3 to 5 dwarf crossbow batteries that can shoot those big arrows that did Smaug in.

[@AyanMurtaza263]

Do a what if on this topic

[@jaybonkersbonkers3613]

I don't think he would make a deal but minipulat smsug into doing whatever he wanted

[@lizard_king_productions]

I would be interested in hearing the "what if" Smaug joined with Sauron.

[@Ray-fk4vh]

A triumvirate between the Balrog, Smaug, & Sauron would be interesting.

[@DamonNomad82]

I would love to see a more detailed "What if" video for Sauron and Smaug forming an alliance. I think it would go somewhat like Morgoth's alliance with Ungoliant when they teamed up to destroy the Two Trees and steal the Silmarils. A significant difference between the two events, though, is that unlike Morgoth, Sauron wouldn't have Balrogs to rescue him when his alliance with a giant, terrifying doom beastie went sour...

[@dojoguitare]

I think, in the end, they would come to blows because Smaug would covet and desire the One Ring, not to wield but just to possess.

[@Fellow_Follower]

What if Sauron and Smaug would be a fascinating video.

[@doyle_the_warlock]

Their powers together be lot harder for everyone. "What if Smaug and Sauron."

[@jdatkin8601]

This is a really good take (much better than the What If Balrog video which honestly I felt didn't make any sense for the character and was a bit D&D). I think you are right that Sauron couldn't dominate Smaug and good call pointing out that despite being called the Necromancer, Sauron didn't actually raise the dead that we know of. I think Sauron could offer Smaug something he would find difficult to resist - mastery of the Dwarves. Smaug is a spiteful, prideful creature but does not seem, to me, to crave administrative power. I don't think being offered his pick of the lands of the North would appeal to him. Why would they? He has the larger wealth of Erebor already and Smaug seeks to be loved and feared, not rule. I think Sauron would give to Smaug all of the riches, now and forever, of the Mountains. Smaug would gain mastery over the Dwarven people and their treasures, something that would please him greatly. Smaug would love little more than to sleep in a pile of Dwarven gold, knowing that every day the Dwarves toil and labour in his name, mining gold and jewels that they have to bring as tribute to him, growing his hoard every day. To the Dwarves he would be a god, their purpose in life to work and die for his own wealth. Thats something Smaug couldn't achieve alone, at least not without expending endless time and energy which he was not fond of doing. Plus again, this would require administration but Sauron could do this. And why would Sauron give up such riches then support with admin? Because what worth does gold have for one who doesn't buy anything? After winning the war for Middle Earth, Sauron would have no use for gold other than as a component of his own works. Anything he wants, he has endless slaves to build and provide or take if needed. Sauron would lay claim to the iron in the mountains, something Smaug has no use for, and ensure the gold flows into Erebor keeping his now defunct weapon asleep. Perhaps, in time, Sauron would betray Smaug and bury him in Erebor but not before the Dwarves had been almost worked to extinction.

[@vjp46n4]

While it is true that Sauron isn't explicitly given the ability to raise the dead, he presumably created the Barrow Weights. Imagine a dragon Weight. That could be pretty scary

[@anthonyjennings9002]

Yep Sauron and Smaug follow up please

[@mateuszslawinski1990]

Original necromancy was about mere communication with the dead (like these spiritist shows), so unless Tolkien thought about common fantasy trope, Sauron's hobby in Dol Guldur concentrated mostly on chatting with spirits.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

Not really. Sauron was the master of creating undead*ring wraiths) and extending lifespans(the mouth of sauron). That's what necromancy is.......shielding one from death or at least granting unusually long life through various magical means. However I believe calling him "The necromancer" at the time was really just a clever name for a villain at the time, before the story was fleshed out(no pun intended).

[@mateuszslawinski1990]

@@MrBottlecapBill I simply wonder what had Tolkien in mind when he created Necromancer figure in "Hobbit". Did he envision undead summoner way beck before LOTR or thought title sound intimidating?

[@paramounttechnicalconsulti5219]

Dragons always reminded me of (evil) sort-of-trained dogs; in other words-your average dog. "1.Don't pee in the house, 2. don't bite me, 3. don't bite other people, 4. don't fight other dogs". You're very happy when you get 2 and 1 (most of the time) and come to an agreement on 3 and 4 with regards to "things to avoid on walkies!". The actual magnitude of the effort required by Sauron to master/ally with Smaug would probably become clear on his very first task; Sauron - "Wake up!" Smaug - "Snarf, growl, snarf-roll over and go back to sleep."

[@jamief1263]

I think it would have been unlikely, the dragon may have been tempted by the treasure that Sauron could offer him, but Sauron would always be wary of a dragons power, as I suspect even with the ring, one on one Smaug could have beaten Sauron in combat.

[@andrewvincent7299]

No, not with the one ring. Sauron with his ring would have wrecked Smaug and anyone else on Middle Earth. That's why there was such fear in him regaining the ring. No one, not even the Balrog would have been able to oppose Sauron.

[@jamief1263]

@@andrewvincent7299 I think your thinking of movie Sauron. Book Sauron was humbled by men, he was defeated twice by non-Ainur individuals twice. Sauron’s power is more in his sorcery, patience and cunning. Where I do believe Sauron, probably even without the ring, could beat a balrog, I doubt he could have beaten a winged fire drake.

[@nigeldepledge3790]

This exact possibility was enough of a concern to Gandalf that he set up the Quest of Erebor . . .

[@Gokkee]

If we set up a scenario we're sauron and smaug is actually talking I would bet smaug would join sauron if he got the lands and treasures west of moria and north of lonely mountain. Sauron would happily accept and either stab smaug in the back when convenient or wait until after all the fighting is done, sauron gets the ring, assemble a might strong enough to simply put smaug down or imprisoned him for experimental research.

[@NAWWMANNN]

Sauron may have had issues dominating the will of Smaug, but I have an idea for a way this may have actually worked: If Sauron is so keenly skilled at crafting magical artifacts that are specifically intended for being gifted to other beings and used to focus Sauron's power of manipulation and dominance to bend those beings to his will; and if Smaug had such a weakness for shiny bits of expensive and rare treasure; what if Sauron had crafted a ring specifically for Smaug? A magical ring, or some similar thing made to fit a dragon the size of Smaug, that Sauron has designed specifically to bend Smaug to his will? That's like Sauron's entire thing. He loved using magical artifacts to enhance his ability to dominate the beings of Arda. Smaug would have fallen for this hook, line and sinker. He would have ended up being just as much of a slave to Sauron's will as the Witch King and all of the Nazgul.

[@similaritiesendhere]

I think it has to do with both Melkor and Sauron knowing that they couldn't overturn Eru's will through brute force. Melkor chose to destroy creation out of nihilistic spite and Sauron chose to only use as much force as the Valar would tolerate. The Valar would not allow Sauron's forces to become more powerful than what the free people could handle unless Sauron proved the Children of Illuvatar to be unworthy (like Numenor). You have to remember when reading LoTR that one Valar never left M.E. (Ulmo) and that he was just waiting for permission to interfere.

[@nategarcia1907]

What if Smaug and Sauron? I've always loved this idea

[@pandoraeeris7860]

I had always assumed Smaug was working in Sauron's interests, even if they didn't have direct communication with each other, since the dragons were creatures of Morgoth.

[@andrewvincent7299]

Well I think it was more accidental. Sauron didn't really need Smaug to fight for him, just Smaug occupying Erebor and keeping Dale from regaining their strength would have been enough for him. This would have allowed the Easterlings to cross unopposed to meet up with Khamul and his forces at Dol-Goldur and to flank the elves.

[@ethinwhite3454]

As the great band stained said "It's been awhile, since I last saw you"

[@bv_7766]

Yes, make the other video!

[@Daangalf]

"What If" Sauron and Smaug please ;)

[@LudwigZand]

A what if Sauron + smaug sounds great

[@kennethknoppik5408]

What if sauron and smaug. That would make a good what if video

[@danielcarson4943]

A what if with Sauron and Smaug would be really interesting. Would Sauron strike earlier during the events of the Hobbit or would the Dwarves fail in their quest to retake Erebor and Smaug still holds the mountain during the War of the Ring?

[@fred20097]

I always thought sauron had sent smaug there. It was a strategic ploy, like assigning the balrog to guard moria. But i have been known to be wrong lol And wasnt sauron morgoth's 2nd in command? While morgoth was away, sauron organised an army of orcs, dragons and balrogs in preparation for his return. So yes, sauron would be commander over both balrogs and dragons, which means he'd have experience with them and dominance over them. That Sauron was nearby in Dol Gulder further points to him being responsible for smaug's takeover of eribor. Lastly, it says somewhere that if the men of Dale and the dwarves hadnt been in the region, then the area would've fallen to the easterlings. If Smaug had still been alive during the war of the ring and Sauron had taken him from lonely mountain to use in battle, that whole area would've been left undefended.

[@kennethknoppik5408]

Sauron and smaug would make the ultimate wrestling super tag team of the century hahaha

[@robertshay9235]

Can more black arrows be made? What made them so special? Cheers

[@kriza891]

I wonder if there is any actual tactic to defending a town from dragons.

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

What if Sauron and Smaug! I really wanna see your take on the theory!

[@Concreteowl]

Necromancy is talking to the dead. He was in the process of raising his 9 fingers... The wraiths.

[@williamafton348]

Sauron likely already had influence over the surviving Dragons, as it’s alluded something had beckoned the Dragons to attack and drive the Dwarves out of the far north of Middle Earth. I believe Sauron could actually influence and command dragons including Smaug, they’re not even close to their larger brethren that had fell during the First Age. Sauron would’ve likely known Smaug from birth and it’s possible the dragons would see him as a fatherly figure or something like that, as Sauron was present in Angband when Morgoth bred the Dragons. Smaug is far lesser than Glaurung and Ancalagon. The dragons while being independent beings, they’re not the same as the Balrogs, so I do believe Sauron could influence and beckon them to his will.

[@markallen2984]

What I think would be really interesting is Saruman and Smaug teaming up.... Or rather Saruman seeking Smaug's assistance against Sauron. Saruman was known to have powers in his voice that were seductive and convincing. He might have been more likely to convince the dragon to join with him than Sauron would have been. With Smaug on his side, Saruman could have been a genuine rival to Sauron. Of course, Smaug was dead before Saruman knew the ring had been found and if Saruman had forged an alliance with Smaug earlier, the ring might never have been found by Bilbo.

[@fostersstubbyasmr9557]

I feel this could’ve worked well and would have that’s why Gandalf set things into motion

[@andrewvincent7299]

Yeah, I do think they would have teamed up. Sauron would have quickly figured out what motivated Smaug and used that to gain him as an ally. I'm sure Sauron would have followed through on his promise because of the lazy nature of Dragons. Give him what he wants and he'll slumber for decades which I'm sure Sauron would have planned something for Smaug if he went rogue. I also think Smaug would have been used against the Elves of the Woodland Realm, Lorien, and Rivendale, while Sauron's forces of Mordor and Minas Morgul would have been used to finish Gondor and Rohan.

[@jakobchristiansson]

I don't think Sauron had anything to offer Smaug that he couldn't take himself. My theory is that Gandalf didn't fear a formal alliance between Smaug and Sauron, but that Sauron (if given enough time to gather his strength and bolster his army) would be able to drive Smaug out of the Lonely mountain, thereby gaining an important tactical position for the wars to come, and at the same time awaken the dragon and force him out in the open, where he would most likely wreak havoc upon all of Sauron's enemies - killing two birds with one stone. Just my personal perspective on this interesting topic! A formal alliance could and would have been a complete gamechanger for Sauron, but I just don't think he could offer anything other than promises that relied on the outcome of the war. Smaug is already one of the most powerful beings in the world at this point, and he had already claimed his new home and treasure without any aid from the Dark Lord. But if Sauron could take Erebor without killing Smaug, it would have been catastrophic for the rest of the world. Smaug would try to find a different home and a new treasure horde somewhere else, which would leave death and destruction in his wake and upon whatever fortress he picked as his new dwelling. I might be wrong though 😅 maybe someone here knows more than me

[@Tadicuslegion78]

I think Sauron and Smaug would end up at odds because Smaug is too proud and egotistical to submit and Sauron would probably be very arrogant and rub it in Smaug's face he's the least Dragon compared to those who served Morgoth.

[@MountainFisher]

Gandalf in the Unfinished Tales told the Dwarves and Thorin in particular that, "Far away here, I wonder if you fully realize the strength of a great Dragon. But that is not all, there is a Shadow growing fast in the world far more terrible. They will help one another." You forgot to mention it would amuse Smaug's wicked heart to destroy and kill on a massive scale. And then there would be elvish maidens to consume to fill his belly. So in Gandalf's mind there was no doubt that Sauron and Smaug would form an alliance. That alliance was Gandalf's greatest fear and don't forget that Gandalf had already been in the dungeons of Dol Guldur and he knew Sauron's power and attacks on Rivendell and Lothlorien were his greatest worry. Gandalf needed to get to the White Council because he thought Saruman would keep the Council from acting against Sauron not knowing that Saruman's spies had told him Sauron was searching the area where the Ring had been lost and wanted it to stop. With Smaug Sauron would have been certain of victory if he attacked Rivendell and Lothlorien with an army of Easterlings and orcs. Or he could have attacked Lothlorien from Dol Goldur almost directly. Don't forget that about 500 years before the Easterlings nearly conquered Gondor, but Eorl and the Rohirrim saved the day. Cirion, considered wisest of all the Stewards of Gondor gifted what became Rohan to Eorl and his people and being farsighted Cirion knew he was insuring Gondor's future as well. Kind of don't need a second 'what if', since Gandalf already covered it by saying in Unfinished Tales that Sauron's biggest mistake was in not attacking Lothlorien and Rivendell first before turning his attention to Gondor. Gandalf also went off to the White Council leaving the dwarves at the edge of Mirkwood because he knew Sauron would not allow the dwarves anywhere near the Lonely Mountain if he hadn't had something else to deal with.

[@victorbrianmcreynolds2200]

What if Sauron & Smaug? Yes please! The fact that Gandalf was worried about this possibility, lends credibility to the idea that they might have joined in common cause against the West.

[@SakeBlossom]

Bards have usually been underrated throughout history, hehe 🎶 🎵

[@alannolan5126]

what if? excellent do it!

[@davidsmith1310]

Yes I think that they would team up, Sauron would want Smaug's strength and he would offer him as much as all the treasure in the world except his own ring to get it.

[@jasons9592]

What about a verses video. Smaug vs. Sauron, for example.

[@PotentFrost]

I have only seen the movies but if Smaug is anything like he is in the movies they would not have teamed up. Or if they did it wouldn't have lasted. Smaug wouldn't have any respect for Sauron and wouldn't want to be on the same side as someone he saw as weak. Sauron could have offered the dragon treasure but from Smaug's pov if he wants treasure he can just take it, he doesn't need someone to give it to him. Plus if Smaug ever found out about the ring he would want it and that would just make him a powerful enemy. And Sauron seems just arrogant enough to think Smaug couldn't mount a serious challenge to him. I think in the end Sauron would either manipulate events to get Smaug to do what he wanted or use him as a guard while he stationed orcs in Erebor or both. Sauron was already using Shelob as a guard and maybe even the Balrog as well. What's one more?

[@mattwong8465]

Probably would get a rehash of Ungoliant and Melkor but this time the Balrogs won't save him. Smaug is greedy for treasure and would likely fixate on and desire Sauron's Ring. If Smaug finds it first or sees it on Sauron's then he might plot to take it. Smaug and Sauron both have the ability to dominate other creatures so Smaug might turn any Orcs sent to guard him to his side. The new Dark Lord of the 4th age might be Smaug

[@andremccormick2680]

I wonder if Sauron was weary of smaug possibly being able to destroy the one ring by consuming it? Or maybe he knew the one ring wouldn't be able to corrupt a being as a dragon and if the one fell under smaugs control he would usurp saurons power.

[@SlideRulePirate]

How did Sauron become known as 'The Necromancer'? Did he actually get up to any necromancy? I ask because if I was lying low while rebuilding my powerbase I certainly would not have 'Necromancer' on my business card.

[@shokmusic_AC]

The darklord may not have needed the dragon for the war in the south at all. Sauron could have used Smaug, with devastating effect, against both Rivendell & Lothlorien. Their removal from the board would have arguably ended the war altogether. Sauron could then commit to a war of attrition against Gondor until the kingdom eventually fell.

[@robin_the_red_fox4082]

What if Sauron and Smaug would team up?

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

Here's a thought, could Smaug use the One Ring? As something gold and precious surely if he were to see it he would covet it?

[@ryanmatthews2068]

I feel like Sauron would be on a team with Smaug much like he did with Shelob. He pleased them and kept them happy as it was easier as then having them as enemies.

[@flameduelist81]

Please continue the “what if” video

[@royadambrown3101]

I was expecting at least a little on the consequences.

[@TarMody]

Since dragons are by nature directly subordinate to Melkor's will and have a kind of free will, I think that Smaug will not come under Sauron's command, but that they can act with some degree of cooperation.

[@elvacoburg1279]

Where Sauron having an alliance with one or more dragons would have been devastating for the West, I do not believe that such an alliance would have ever been formed. IF such an alliance would have ever been possible, then surely Sauron would have done so during the wars of the Second Age, when he was at the height of his power and in possession of the One Ring. Yes, Smaug would have been younger in the 2nd Age, but as well as Smaug, there would have been Scatha, killed by Fram of the Éothéod in the middle of the 3rd Age. This all points to either Sauron not being willing to enter an alliance with any of the dragons, as he would rather dominate than form an alliance, OR that he tried and the dragon(s) refused him. Though this makes me wonder why Sauron did not produce a number of rings to dominate the dragons in the same was as the 3, 7 and 9, unless that was beyond his power.

[@kevinmoore4845]

The ultimate evil alliance would be Sauron alerting Smaug to the weakness in his armor. Sauron would repair Smuags dragon scale and Smaug would the be beholding to him. Clearly a followup what if video is needed.

[@Joeslipknot1]

Smaug died to a lone archer…. Sauron just got held back by the writer in reality he would have dominated and ruled middle earth

[@peateargriffin9932]

Smaug died to a lucky one in a million shot, of thr shot had missed and the bard killed- who knows what could have happened

[@glenncolliver3658]

This is more a general question about middle earth and maybe I am being stupid, but when elves die in battle does their spirit travel across the sea to the undying lands? I only ask as I knew men had an afterlife just wasn't sure about the other races. Thank you for any answers in advance.

[@adamtheninjasmith2985]

Not only is this alliance what Gandolf was afraid of but personally I think likely. Morgoth created the dragons and they obeyed him. But I think Sauron's ability to sway and manipulate would have won over in the end. Especially given Smaug's ego and a dragons lust for riches. Sauron even managed to corrupt Sarumon for example along with many, many others.

[@kmungal]

Sauron would craft a ring, something new and precious specifically for Smaug. Saruman would help him with delight as he wanted to craft his own ring anyways. Smaug the great king of the lonely mountain would become a Ringwraith like all the great kings of the past. The world of men would burn, Rohan, Helmsdeep, the forests of Fangorn, Ecthelion, the Pelinor fields, Minas Tireth. no black arrow could save them.

[@elizabethanne8729]

I think they might have teamed up only to get on each other’s nerves and end up fighting one another 😅

[@mightymulatto3000]

What were black arrows made of and why were there few made? One would think those who had treasure hoards would stockpile them.

[@mikecobalt7005]

They wouldn't have "Teamed Up". Sauron would've told Smaug anything to get Smaug to agree but Smaug likely would have seen through that knowing at best he would have been a servant (unthinkable and insulting), Smaug may have moved on his own accord but it would be to promote himself and knowing orcs (chaotic) Smaug at some point I believe would have attacked them. Sauron may have tried however I really doubt that would ever happen.

[@loremaster1501]

Nice job on this, but the flushing out of the abilities and not just the motives is key here. As a sorcerer, Sauron is four times more powerful than Smaug. This translate to the dragon having about a 25% chance of resisting a domination spell from the dark Lord. And of course there’s a threat, or at least the carrot and the stick approach, that if Smaug fights for him he will get immense treasures, or Sauron will simply put on his ring and Club the dragon to death. Or at least force him to leave the lonely Mountain for fear of his life. This isn’t something the dragon wants to do, but Sauron is the most powerful Maia spirit there is and the second most powerful sorcerer next to Morgoth. There was a real reason why Sauron was second in command under Morgoth which means he outranked Balrogs and the dragons. In the end, even his powers of persuasion would be successful enough to recruit Smaug. For more information on these kinds of issues go to loremaster.com

[@tomhatton2512]

I think Sauron would have made Smaug a ring just for him and maybe repaired that scale. Those two things would have enticed Smaug

[@srinjoyroychoudhury7034]

Any kind of attack would be repulsed by Gandalf, gimili could forge a "black Arrow" for Legolas and Legolas would most certainly hit smaug at his weak spot.

[@lilitharam44]

I don't see what Smaug would have to gain from allying with Sauron. Glaurung was over his own army of orcs, who were promised the treasure (or some of it), of Nargothrond. Glaurung decided he'd rather have the treasure himself and just chased the orcs off and gave them nothing. Morgoth let this happen and didn't try to stop Glaurung or discipline him in any way. Even IF Sauron was able to entice Smaug into helping his cause, there's no control that Sauron would have over him, if Smaug decided he didn't want to go along with the plan. Remember, Sauron hoarded Mithril and Moria and it's wealth might be the only thing that could possibly entice Smaug to leave his hoard, but I think Sauron would try to double cross Smaug and keep the Mithril for himself. Basically, Smaug would be a dog off a leash that could pretty much do what he wanted without fear of discipline or retribution. I just don't see what Sauron could offer that Smaug would take. Great video though, Love your channel! All the Best from Memphis, TN

[@illithidlore]

Would Sauron openly try to recruit Smaug or would he try reforging the rings that he had (dwarven and possibly human if the wraiths didn't need them) into some kind of dragon ring?

[@paulhess1689]

Were alliances something Sauron would even do, though? Sauron, and his predecessor Morgoth, aimed to enslave, not cooperate with, those around them. Moreover, the one time that Morgoth did ally with another evil entity, Ungoliant, it nearly ended in Morgoth's destruction. I figure Sauron would've learned from that and would fear that Smaug could potentially do to him what Ungoliant almost did to Morgoth.

[@KA-dx2kz]

He could offer him his own kingdom. Really, the only thing that they could have used to stop him would have been the undead army

[@t.nysted4146]

If Gandalf suspected it, it seems plausible. However, I cannot ignore the sense that... if Smaug had gotten claws on the one ring for Sauron, would Smaug have been willing to give it up?