Oliphaunts of Harad | Creatures of Middle-earth

[@CounciloftheRings]

Here's a link to Patreon in case you want to become a patron and support the channel! www.patreon.com/counciloftherings 🧙‍♂

[@haleyschreiter9746]

As someone who is often more concerned about the dogs and horses in a story, I love that Sam is still thinking about the Oliphaunt after the Ring's destruction.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Yeah it says a lot about his character 😁

[@sethnaffziger1402]

I also very much appreciated Sam's love for Bill the pony, and how Tolkien took the time to inform the audience that he had indeed made it back to rivendell, and then the shire safely :)

[@MrMarinus18]

Though there is a big difference between the book and the movie. In the book they are only slightly larger than a real elephant. However in the movie they massively scaled them up for the sake of spectacle. Though I don't disagree with that decision. In a book you can create a sense of awe and terror by description and Tolkien is really great at that. A movie though is a visual medium so you need to use visuals to convey that. That's also why they changed the Balrog from it's humanlike description in the book to more monsterious to convey it's power and evil in a far more visual way.

[@Relics_of_Arda]

"Mister Frodo! Look! It's an Oliphaunt! No one at home will believe this." - Sam

[@Hemskelol]

It’s sad seeing such a magnificent beast being used for warfare.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Indeed!

[@widodoakrom3938]

Well we used elephants for warfare back then

[@hx20games77]

​@@widodoakrom3938same with Rhinos

[@thecaseclosedpikachufiles]

yeah to be honest with you right now I feel the same way about it. And the same thing goes with rhinos as well. But just remember that in the lord of the rings movies it’s all C.G.I and nothing real. Because in reality and in real life elephants are an endangered and threatened species right now

[@Dare_To_Game]

Gray as a mouse, large as a house.

[@JRH6271]

"Mister Frodo! Look! It's a Mûmak. No one at home will believe this." -Alternate Timeline Sam

[@HerodsRevenge]

Fun fact. Here in Germany is the Oliphaunt a word what sounds familar with a another word, also known as Ottifant and that is a pretty funny cartoon figure from a comedian. Everytime i hear the lotr version, then i think about the cartoon version haha.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Oh I didn't know that! That's interesting to know :D

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

Lovely video! There is just one thing about that scene in Ithilien, where I think it's unrealistic. At some point, the men report back to their Captain Faramir that all the enemy men have been accounted for and the only one they have no trace of is the oliphaunt. 1. How did they know how many of the enemy soldiers were in that entire troop including people in the wartower? 2. The oliphaunts should be the easiest beings to track in all of Middle Earth. For goodness sake, these men are Rangers of Ithilien! They have no idea where the beast has gone?! One would think even a five year old Aragorn would've been able to track it. (Awww baby Aragorn ... I never pictured that before - how adorable!) 3. This has nothing to do with the oliphaunts, but the part where it's essential that they remain extremely quiet, so that spies of Mordor don't see them, and then Faramir insists on him, and his 200-300 men sitting down in a clearing to have an interrogation with Frodo, who is standing, and Sam who is hanging about unsecured. This scene is tactically and logically all kinds of wrong! I have to make sarcastic comments in the notes on my e-book to relieve my feelings. Thankfully, it's nowhere near as bad as that ROP scene with Galadriel manoeuvering 5 guards into the cell while Pharazon stands there, does nothing, and lets her prance away. Thanks for the video! The art is wonderful as usual!

[@MerryMohProductions]

This was a pleasant surprise from you fellows

[@Ant-mo1gl]

Cool!!!! I always wonder if they were really domesticated or at least partially. The resources needed to managed a pack of Oliphants must be pretty big.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Yeah no doubt!

[@WolfeRavenwood]

I am a simple Rohirrim, i see a Council of the Rings video, i click a like.

[@dragoonzen]

Love them.

[@Firesoul001]

I've always seen Sam's use of the word "Oliphaunt" as him mispronouncing the actual word "elephant", because of it having travelled through a fair deal of time and space before getting to him. Tolkien would have probably enjoyed inserting that kind of linguistic phenomenon in his narrative. Following this logic, "Oliphaunt" would be a Shire-ism, and the correct Westron form would be "elephant". "Mûmak" seems to be the preferred term for everyone apart from Sam (and Shirefolk, possibly), which also goes toward proving this hypothesis. What do you all think? There's a very similar thing in Winnie the Pooh with the word "Heffalump", the depiction of which is just as fantastical as the Oliphaunt's in Sam's poem. Both instances show the elephant being made larger than life because those describing it have never actually seen it. (Sorry for the lengthy comment, but if this discussion can't be had here, where else ? 😁)

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

Always thought they were interesting.

[@CounciloftheRings]

It must have been terrifying to face such a beast in battle

[@colinbaldwin313]

I love the theory that there is a different species of oliphaunt in Rhun (or perhaps in Khand, which is never described in any detail within Tolkien's canon). I imagine that species may be a bit smaller than the one we've seen, just as the Asian elephant is smaller than the African bush one.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Yeah seems plausible at least!

[@CestusSRK]

Fun thing if we speak war elephants the asian ones were bigger than african ones, as latter were african forest elephants wich is a subspecies smaller than savannah huge one and smaller than indian one too In fact Hannibal personal elephant was said to be the only asian of his army, yet was the largest

[@Enerdhil]

I'd like to think the Mumâk killed more Haradrim than good guys once they realized why they were brought such a far distance from home. Elephants are very smart. I assume Mumâk were as smart or smarter.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Ahh very interesting idea actually 😁

[@stefanwolfe1906]

I think they were actually described as “bloodthirsty” in battle though, so maybe they didn’t mind so much 😂

[@immortalace3447]

@@stefanwolfe1906 to compare it to real history many nations who used war elephants gave them drugs before battle to make them less scared, perhaps the haradrim did the same or maybe the mumak are just naturally more aggressive than real world elephants, or both.

[@tessa4159]

I was just writing down Sam's poem when I noticed this video about it lol. 😆

[@CounciloftheRings]

Sweet! 😃

[@mo-mo-p5t]

I know Tolkien disliked allegory but when I saw the horses in War Horse and the brutal way they were treated like wheels in a machine in WWI, I thought of the oliphaunts.

[@CounciloftheRings]

That makes sense 😁

[@not.supermario]

Someone on Reddit compared the Oliphaunts to tanks. The ones Tolkien had seen in the trenches since they plowed through barbed wire and bullets and didn't stop. So I think the Oliphaunts are Middle-earth's tanks. It makes sense since in this, they are killing machines.

[@Puget55]

Fun fact in France an oliphant is a war cor often made in elephant's ivory. Just like in the legend of Roland and his death in Roncevaux, he blows in his oliphant to send an alert message to Charlemagne. Second fun fact, the smell of war elephants (such as the camel one) made the horses nervous during ancient battle, and the way to take them down is just the same, sending arrow and javelin against it till it look like an enormous edgehog or frighten them with heavy sound or fire. Scipio Africanus made a great victory taking down carthaginians elephants and even returning some against their own masters by breaking the ranks fleeing.

[@istari0]

There are extinct species of elephants, including some that lived in Europe, that were twice as big or more than the largest modern-day elephants. I wonder if Tolkien was aware of this.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Hmm sounds like the sort of stuff he would know about, but who knows? 🤔

[@Enerdhil]

You mean Mammoths?

[@widodoakrom3938]

​@@Enerdhil palexodon namadicus

[@Enerdhil]

@@widodoakrom3938 Thanks professor.

[@tyrannotherium7873]

When I was a kid, I always thought that their designs were based on the Columbian mammoths, because Columbia mammoths have one of the longest legs of any elephant but it turns out they’re based on a completely different elephant like gomphotherium

[@MerryMohProductions]

Who made the art piece at 5:41?

[@CounciloftheRings]

It’s a new one from lotr rise to war you can find on their Facebook page. The artist is sadly unknown to me ☺️

[@ellanenish5999]

Mûmaks must have lived in Far Harad to me as otherwise there would be much more evidence for encounters with them in the chronicles of the West

[@CounciloftheRings]

Yeah my thinking too! The hobbits of the Vales of Anduin had heard of Minas Morgul, so it would surprise me if they hadn’t heard more about oliphaunts

[@Lord_KillerBee]

It’s very likely small herds of the oliphaunts were kept by the men of Harad, to where they train them to use in warfare and likely other related tasks. While not completely domesticated, the great beasts were trained by those who could ride them into battle and use their great size to mow down the enemy troops with little effort. Those who had never seen these great beasts would likely be stricken with fear as such colossal beasts would come right towards them and be unfazed by their arrows and weapons.

[@anti-liberalismo]

Well done sir! Didn't the catapults of Minas Tirith kill the mumak?

[@CounciloftheRings]

Sounds plausible, but probably not easy to hit a moving target with a catapult or trebuchet 😂

[@anti-liberalismo]

@@CounciloftheRings yes but the books said some of the mumakil died of "stone cast or shot in the eye by the archers of Morthond"

[@epsilon9739]

@@anti-liberalismo I believe this refers to arrows and stone arrowheads.

[@richmondlandersenfells2238]

Speaking of the mumaks, can you give more information about the Kine of Araw in rhun? They're an exotic type of wild cattle native to the east. And was famous in the west for its huge prominent horns!

[@gallendugall8913]

Comments for metrics are still comments.

[@CounciloftheRings]

Indeed! Thank you!

[@VaderViktor]

Supposedly there was a jungle region whare the Mimakil came from, somewhere near the place near and far harad meet.

[@CounciloftheRings]

MERP added a jungle in Far Harad at least. It’s pure speculation, but since we know there are apes (according to Gimli), there sure must be trees of some sort. If they lived with those or in more desert/ savannah climate like the elephants of Africa (or the now extinct North African elephants) is unknown. I feel jungle is more logical as such a huge creature must eat a lot, but who knows. Could be a combination.

[@colinbaldwin313]

@@CounciloftheRings I find it hard to imagine such a gigantic creature thriving in a jungle. I envision it on some fertile grassland in Far Harad. However, it's also possible that they live closer to or in Near Harad; maybe they have physiological adaptations to inhabit a desert environment.

[@huanhoundofthevailinor2374]

KZbin is ridiculous no notifications

[@CounciloftheRings]

I’ve heard similar stories 😞

[@Bagan_kingdom]

Wow

[@BernddasBrotB7]

Nellie the elephant packed her trunk and said goodbye to the circus, Off she went with a trumpety trump. Trump, trump, trump! Nellie the elephant packed her trunk and trundled off to the jungle, Off she went with a trumpety trump. Trump, trump, trump! The head of the herd was calling far far away, They met one night in the silver light, On the road to Mandalay...

[@Enerdhil]

Annabon means large snout? What does Annatar mean?! 😂🤣😆

[@CounciloftheRings]

Lord of gifts 😁 Anna (gift) tar (lord or king) but Annatar is Quenya not Sindarin 😁 Elephant in Quenya is andamunda, haha

[@Enerdhil]

@@CounciloftheRings Thanks. I knew but it does look suspicious next to a word that looks like it has the same prefix/root.

[@CounciloftheRings]

@@Enerdhil Hahah indeed :D

[@TzarTzarevich777]

Actually these beasts irl were used by Persians (today Iranians) and Carthaginians (Punics, today called Tunis), just saying what Real Life prototypes Tolkien was inspired.

[@CounciloftheRings]

The north African variants of elephants were smaller than the sub-saharan elephants most think of today, not the other way around. I’m not sure if Persians used them too, but they were not native in those parts, it might have been different ones from India, however those are also smaller than the elephants most think of. You can read about it in ‘War elephants’ by Konstantin Nossov, Osprey Publishing.

[@TzarTzarevich777]

@@CounciloftheRings ok thanks for the recommendation, yeah the Sassanid Empire used them but then after it's fall, War Elephants would be used by the Timurids and the Indians untill 19-th century.

[@Padme-3o]

I wonder what a Oliphant would do to me?

[@CounciloftheRings]

I think they are harmless enough in nature, if you don’t provoke them, much like elephants

[@CounciloftheRings]

@@Padme-3o trample you seems reasonable, based on the one we see in Ithilien in the books 😆

[@Padme-3o]

@@CounciloftheRings They can trample me? What would happen to me if they trampled me?

[@joenbjerregaard7816]

I want an oliphant

[@CounciloftheRings]

Hopefully not indoors 😂

[@joenbjerregaard7816]

Nono I have a small garden lol

[@thehaim4059]

I don't want the war of rohirrim i want the angmar war and the fall of moria

[@istari0]

You stand a much better chance of getting those things if War of the Rohirrim is successful.