Counter-Strike - Why did Defuse Mode trump Hostage Mode?

[@MjkL1337]

i'm an office grub and not gonna lie, listening to the CT base ambient sound at the start of the game is the most soothing feeling

[@PossumPog64]

Office is love office is life

[@leaveacomment]

Office lovers are superior

[@auduntrede-vere8207]

Office is nice and all, but Assault was truly a masterpiece… still haunts my dreams that it was removed

[@bigherb]

Office for life baby i have like 3k hours on that map 😍

[@queuedjar4578]

Listening to Lord GabeN's voice at T-Spawn is an equally enlightening experience.

[@theamazingyoshi1938]

Honestly, I feel every game is at it’s best when nobody knows how to play it.

[@BabzaiWWP]

except rats

[@ChrisD__]

@@BabzaiWWP what was wrong with Rats? and how did it die? I bought it and played it for a few minutes and it seems pretty good. A lot more accessible than other modern parkour-quake-likes.

[@GuyOnAChair]

I get what you mean Yoshi. :)

[@SyrupBuccaneer]

Early days of discovery.

[@rotua98]

the reason why PUBG was booming back then

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

I definitely agree that Defuse is better for competitive games because it's more dynamic and players have more to worry about, but I honestly think Hostage could be just as popular as a casual alternative with just a few changes. More maps and BETTER maps is the big one, but I think the weapon pool also needs a shakeup so the attacking team has better weapons, just like in Defuse. Maybe they could give Terrorist weapons Hostage-only nerfs, or raise their prices, or replace the better ones with new weapons that are balanced for Hostage. The riot shield is a great addition for CTs and I hope it's a sign Valve will start experimenting more soon.

[@pwhqngl0evzeg7z37]

I think it would be cool to attack imbalance in Hostage matches while maintaining the ostensible "realism" characteristic of csgo. Make it like Dog Day Afternoon (with Al Pacino) : 6 CTs vs 2 Ts or some similar ratio. Ts can drag hostages around. Maybe Ts can move (destructible) objects around to barricade, and perhaps some nearly indestructible objects like fridges and dumpsters if 2 Ts work together to move the thing. Tricky to implement but very cool I think.

[@akulaasonen1065]

I think there are two main problems that are holding back hostage mode from being fun for casual play. First one is the bringing back the hostages part. It just gives terrorists a stupid easy way to win by camping ct spawn. If the rescue zone would be in a different location, maybe it would bring more wight on actually defending the hostages. Second problem is, as you said, the weapons. In defuse the balance comes from t-side having the one tap potential on a very cheap weapon since it is already very hard to get control of areas. You have a clear advantage on straight on gunfights, which gives you a fighting chance against the cts just locking every entrance down. But on hostage, the already strong side has the better weapons, which just makes it even worse to attack than it already is. Honestly hostage just needs a full on remake, the idea is good, but the execution is flawed. The maps are also really imbalanced and there are way too few of them. If they were to add Assault and Italy back, I think the hostage mode would see way more casual players.

[@soughtaftergames6824]

Money nerf is a good idea. For t imo

[@languaj]

Two or three hostage extraction zones might be a good idea too. Maybe instead of them being in the ct spawn they could be independent locations.

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

@@languaj I also really like the idea of multiple, independent hostage rescue zones. Makes it harder for the Ts to camp when a hostage is taken, kinda bringing in that Defuse dynamic where the defending team suddenly has to be on the attack.

[@boksen4252]

I would LOVE to see a viable hostage map and it beeing played in the active map pool.

[@tomhumphries912]

Hostage plays out so much differently to defuse it wouldn't make sense in a competition. I'd rather separate hostage comps

[@The_Random_Bastard]

@@tomhumphries912 exactly... hostage can spawn "in office" at differend locations... only down side is that hostage position does not change every round... but only at the start of the whole match... honestly hearing that hostage is less versatile then dust 2 made my ears bleed... Office it self had often faster search time then dust 2... why!? bcs ppl are playing it bcs its fucking awesome map where you can use all guns at ANY!!! situation... unlike dust_2 where you cant use mac10 against AK47... its a map for mid to long range... but office its map for EVERY FUCKING WEAPON... fuck Phillip for not seeing that

[@boksen4252]

@@tomhumphries912 Thats what i would like to see. I dont think any hostage map is viable for comp play rn but maybe at some point there will be one which changes the "hostage meta" drastically.

[@Sonkh23600]

Agency is pretty good actually

[@PabloEscobar-ws8rz]

@@Sonkh23600 maybe is ct had another root to hostages like scaffolding going around the building or a vent

[@lazydk2654]

I love the Insertion II map, and it feels kind of balanced in casual. I do however think it is better for 10v10 than the normal 5v5. I'd love to see a 10v10 pro match on Insertion II. The CT's need a lot better coms to really punish the fact that they spawn surrounding the T's. Also increase the round time.

[@oceanman7868]

that would be interesting to see! i would love to see that.

[@encross8058]

That would be awesome

[@00_00.1]

Yeah I feel like 3 or 4 minute rounds would be better

[@eggmund69]

Insertion II is knacks

[@bennmurhaaya8518]

one has to love how "spaced out" the hostages are on cs_office. Any win on that map as a CT is T's getting cocky and stupid.

[@dawnless852]

In ye old days, you needed all four hostages. Thus you would have to get the two hostages first, then either run through T spawn or rotate all around. But now, it's just one hostage that's needed so it's very easy on maps like office.

[@Availant]

Nah its just a well made play from ct

[@_TeXoN_]

The placement is random. There are nine locations that can be chosen and stay the whole game. If you get the back hallway and paper, it can be almost balanced. If you get spawn and projector, then tough luck winning a round as CT.

[@ragingfred]

Or matchmaking being broken.

[@fountainofspeech1379]

@@_TeXoN_ that's true, well put

[@3rdnusskern]

Man, I loved Hostage back in the day, honestly the nostalgia I have for CS makes me kinda sad, thinking about what it has become nowadays

[@Eluvix]

It became good

[@Eluvix]

@Mr Devil shirtless man hot

[@3rdnusskern]

@@Eluvix Well that's subjective. Personally, I think it was at it's peak 1-2 years after release.

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

Too much focus on skins, at the detrement to the gameplay. Weapons that have existed since launch are still unviable or poorly balanced, every map is made super clean and prop and personality free for the elite xxXMLGXxxx proplayers leisure (the horrible lightning changes due to the new agents comes to mind), it's such a different game from 1.6 and CSS mostly positive but also alot of negative

[@blest5132]

@@Grandmaster-Kush it's not even that, they came out with "retakes" so I give it a shot with bots and it's just horrible, my bot teammates just constantly place themselves in between me and the enemy without taking action and even just looking at me, constantly flashing in the bombsite we're defending when attacked by CT's, and playing on CT's half your team just stands around in spawn like you don't need them, or they push the other bombsite even though at the beginning of the round over the radio comes "bombsite B" and your team goes A? it's really a fucking joke how bad it is. it's not that the gamemode is bad, I love playing retakes it's just to valve a higher bot level just means your own teammates screw you, not harder bot a.i. that's just stupid.

[@bgtubber]

0:25 The nostalgia is strong with this splash screen. I remember it vividly as a kid. The golden days of CS when everyone was playing it.

[@pelic9608]

Everyone remembers that loading screen, because you saw it 10 times until you managed to actually join the game; even on LAN. 😄

[@dannimller1455]

What about good ol' VIP mode where a CT had 200 armor and only a USP :D

[@realpillboxer]

The first cs_insertion honestly reminded me of the as_ maps where you were in a forest with a river and also had to evac to a helicopter.

[@Shockwire136]

I remember playing that one oil rig map in VIP mode with bots. Good times.

[@Alexeimystique]

as_oilrig... The only assassination map left in retail 1.6 afaik

[@zee_zee9439]

Oilrig, I remember that map. It's so dark.

[@bsherman8236]

I hate to lose my weapons

[@Tkonk]

Maps like insertion are the only kinds of maps that make hostage fun for me.

[@giygas9305]

@Mr Devil NO

[@ChrisD__]

*make CSGO fun.

[@SneedsterSpeedster]

@@ChrisD__ Yeah, no.

[@nagashimayt9083]

I miss Assault

[@ChrisD__]

@@nagashimayt9083 oh damn, i forgor about assault.

[@Toasted1337]

i wish hostage was more popular, and more balanced.

[@naughtmeinam4603]

It's terrifying that there is now such a massive "hardcore" scene in gaming that literally no game can come out and not be a cesspit of sweat within weeks of release. CS:GO is a prime example of when a game lives too long for its own good.

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

Same issue in Minecraft servers, every new server is 100% sweats

[@JackoBanon1]

CS has a pretty compatitive community since it's early days. I used to play CS:S for several thousand of hours and I had many servers with different game modes: Deagle Only, Team Deathmatch, Minigames, Zombies, Zombie Escape, Bunny Hoping, ... It was so much fun. So when CS:GO was released it just felt empty, blank and boring because in the beginning there wasn't even a deathmatch or ranked mode. The game had big problems with player count in the beginning and it almost looked as if CS:GO might die. But the introduction of ranked and colorful skins you can get our of cases and trade it somehow survived. I started playing CS:GO 1 year after ranked was released and between 2013-2015 I grinded my way up from Silver 2 (my first rank) to Supreme Master First Class. Then the rank reset happened and I was thrown back to Master Guardian 1. So between 2015-2017 I had to grind my way back to Supreme again until I finally reached The Global Elite. But in this time the game already died for me because the cheater problem got worse and worse and Valve did nothing about it. That's why after I reached Global Elite I quit CS and switched to PUBG instead which was fun for the first 2-3 years but eventually died as well. In 2020 I switched to Valorant and have been playing since release. And to be honest it's the better version of CS:GO for me. Better servers, no cheaters and a report system that actually works.

[@joao34386]

People want the satisfaction of winning, that’s always been the case, the only difference is that in the past it was a lot easier to win with less effort and less skills because everyone was bad at the games they played. You don’t need much effort to win when your opponents are just as shit as you are. Nowadays, a lot of skills carry over across games, and you’re pitted against 2+ decades of experience, so getting that sweet dopamine from dominating your opponents takes a lot of effort, cause you can’t just blindly run and gun against competent opponents. It’s not easy to “be good” at games anymore, so unless you invest the time and effort into getting on the same level as others, you’re not gonna have fun dying every round after 5 seconds.

[@gamerdrache2.02]

@@JackoBanon1 valorant is not better

[@jeremychicken3339]

well, I know just the thing to prevent extreme sweatfests in a game. RANDOM CRITS.

[@s4n714g000]

insertion 2 is awesome but still really hard for CTs, it's too easy to get on a roof and snipe everyone, I love the map though, same as militia (my favorite map)

[@delrf2733]

I have the "go up on the ladder and snipe" syndrome in militia

[@WelcomeToLaMatanza]

I think one of the biggest issues are the maps themselves, they are full of suicidal hallways so the only way for the CTs to win is to wait for the terrorists to use all their grenades, pre fire every corner just in case and A LOT of teamwork. In maps like Italy losing an angle is basically losing the match most of the time, in Office if the hostages spawn far away from the exits the CTs will never have a chance to rescue them. The terrorists also have better weapons, wich is actually not a big deal since most of the time they just need the IQ of a 3 year old, lots of grenades and a negev or an awp to cockblock the CTs. Luckily, the riot shield now allows you to peek and get information without dying wich is nice I guess, just hope they don't throw grenades at you.

[@kikifrh]

This makes me remind me of when I used to play assault or other hostage maps with friends or randoms and have loads of fun. Or playing other game modes such as gun game, zombie mode. I was horrible in all of them but I still had more fun than any video game Ive played lately. Is that growing up? I really miss playing 1.6

[@danilafoxpro2603]

I still play 1.6 from time to time. I enjoy it more than Global Offensive.

[@dimaz3]

I enjoy every game when it's just new players experimenting with everything. As Metas build, people play with the same 4 weapons the pros do and try way too hard, the game becomes stale..becomes so automated.

[@Ununoctium-]

I'll be patiently waiting for the million dev texture patterns from now on!

[@FLy1nRabBit]

As someone whose solely played Office (and met a lot of wonderful people who only play it) starting CT first is a relief.

[@sasuke2910]

Nice analysis, as players become more perfect, map design has to become more symmetric and "simple", but this makes things more boring. A similar thing's happened to StarCraft 2. Recently there's been a few 8-way FFA SC2 tournaments, it seems like it'd work with enough funding.

[@ZOMGItsDAF]

The thing i loved about css was the multitude of game modes creates by the playerbase. Gun game, surf, surf rpg, bhop, zombie, prison, 32 player pugs w/ various stipulations, deathmatch, and competitive 5v5 leagues and scrims.

[@astral_ghxst]

it's a shame that anubis was taken out. it really felt at home in csgo

[@Oodelally]

I adored that map! Me and my friends loved it, the layout was splendid!

[@stevie8271]

i loved mocha too :( bright n sunny n was fun

[@edyslavico3761]

Yeah anubis was pretty decent, and as soon as I was starting to enjoy it they removed it from the game

[@MagicMan608]

Good news

[@robbe4247]

11:13. That's where office shines. You can just barely line up smokes at all and so few people are aware of good util lines that nobody does that lol

[@flipper6879]

Was literally just in a fucking surf server with this guy, congrats on 1 mil Philip. Love you xx

[@Mr-Ling]

I made my friends try new maps like ancient and anubis with me for the first time because i understand that trying new things brings so much value to experiences and life. Although there was a transition period we had a blast!

[@Fertog1]

Honestly, Agency is really balanced. Ts get the normal game mode advantage but CTs get lots of attacking points and different strategies they can do. I can only recommend Agency for everyone, because it really feels like a defuse experience. Also because Ts have to defend, and then actually attack, because the spawn is so huge they have to actively search for the hostage carrier.

[@jeandudey]

Agency is the most T sided map I've played ever, I've had matches there that ended 15-15 with both teams getting the 15 rounds on T side.

[@Oodelally]

I always loved playing on big 40 man team deathmatch servers with cs_office, the layout was splendid for the particular game mode! The points that you’ve brought up in this video are exactly why I’ve given up on CSGO, it is simply too much of a commitment to have fun as, in order to have fun, you have to be “good”!

[@sil3nT.]

I'm waiting for the "case unboxing millionare until I get an emerald" video. Love u kliks, keep up the great work!

[@nargames]

Wow those charts were insanely smart! Great job Phill!

[@saf01guy]

What do you think about making a video on changing hostage maps into defuse maps?

[@hunzhurte]

The reverse music in the background 💀

[@rustyhawk9711]

Insertion2 is a great map that got me back to playing hostage mode

[@bent540]

ah when i was young playing counter i clearly remember the adrenalin rush you would get when running back with the hostages in cs_italy while the opera song ell sol dell anima got more and more faint!

[@Nicki1202]

me and the boys used to play only on militia back in 2015-2016 until it was removed. sadly, when it came back and was remade, it just never felt the same anymore. the early csgo militia was so much fun

[@Dostyy]

Nowadays I play faceit on repeat probably trying to relive the feelings of playing cs 1.6 as a literal child. But back then the skill level was so low and I spent most of my time on community maps like jailbreak, awp, gungame, etc… it was just so much fun to be discovering this new stuff. I sometimes play cs 1.6 but the community changed, mainly the number of players and I noticed my friends don’t enjoy playing non-competetive games. I sure love competetives but sometimes I’d just like to play for fun. (I’m not a pothead even if I sound like one xd)

[@StyffTonic]

I started playing CS in 1999 in Beta 2 and my friends and I loved CS maps because the game was about role playing, not tournaments and twitch subs. It was bleedingly obvious to us at the time that CT was harder to play than T, but we didn't mind because it was about the challenge of it all. Plus we'd swap around whenever we wanted a different play style. In fact, I distinctly remember a CS deathmatch level based on the shower scene from the 1996 movie called 'The Rock' that was really popular. CTs would spawn in the shower room surrounded by T's in an elevated position. It was always a one sided slaughter, but again, it was about role play and the lack of balance was actually a feature of the game mode rather than a hinderance. 9:16 - Also, what you said isn't quite right. Prior to Beta 5 you could plant the bomb anywhere on the map, but when it went off, if it wasn't in a bombsite, then T's lost the round. Beta 5 made it so that you couldn't accidently plant the bomb in some random place in the map accidentally; which happened more than you might think because planting a bomb was instantaneous (rather than taking a few seconds).

[@willowryk]

pretty cool video , nice to see good reasoning as to why people never typically play hostage mode

[@smitias_8474]

I firmly believe that Office is one of the best maps in current pool. Lately in map making there was too much focus on rifle aim-duels. Office still offers to chance to have fun effectively with a shotgun or SMG - as well as plenty of room to try out bold and unusual tactics.

[@error17_]

i never realized how objectively good the defuse mode is in its simple design

[@MegapiemanPHD]

The problem with hostage is that it's easier to just kill the other team then get in, get the hostage, and get out again. The bomb in defuse is mostly used to draw out the other team to specific locations to fight, instead of actually destroying the objective in order to win. Hostages don't offer this as they start close to each other, so defenders only have to be in one general area, and once a hostage is picked up, they can then be anywhere in the map.

[@kevinuploadingwhatever]

1:56 that's not how it works The terrorists don't typically sneak off to the hostage save point (besides for militia and Insecrtion) Typically the cts get a hostage and then force the terrorists to run full sprint to even get a chance to win the round Maps like Italy give no chance to terrorists in clutch situations unless they already planned for a late game situation

[@gh1llecsgo396]

Thats cap man, Italy has so many clutch chances for T side

[@here_be_dragons9184]

They should be more like Due Process: procedurally generated maps that change often so it's not about knowing all the quirks and exploit of a given map and more about developing strategies on the flight according to the new environment. These are impossible to balance but you can solve that by simply switching sides.

[@vertigq5126]

This was awesome, a really great explanation of CS’s history and the “state of the game” for lack of a better term. Thanks a lot for sharing this with us man! You’ve opened my computer-strained eyes. Keep it up and God bless you :)

[@baumstamp5989]

well, considering we include popular community maps, there were a lot of cs_ maps where hostages were split into 2 x 2 locations - so either T side had to split or only focus on one hostage location. same as with de_ where CT can either split in a 50/50 ratio or value the defense of one bombsite over another due to whatever strategic reason.

[@GenericInternetter]

cs_rio was an absolute classic hostage custom map, and it was obviously a massive hit among the Brazilian crowd. It deserves a video all to itself.

[@greyferret26]

While I agree with most of the points, it should be noted that game can or maybe even should be fun without extra "balancing" and "competitiveness". I believe that people forgot about that after the years with cybersports constantly banging on our ears. You used "balance" and its synonyms so much in the video, I suddenly understood how foreign they sound to someone who gave up this toxic seriousness of competitive matches and started just enjoy fun dumb things. Ofc balance is important in the end of the day, but if casual playlists are alive and popular after so many years, maybe we are forgetting something important about having simple fun.

[@SnijwitTv]

Spent a lot of time thinking about this game mode as my friend refuses to remove it from our map pool. I'd love to fix it and I think I have a few decent ideas. 1: make the maps similar to defuse where there's 2 set of multiple hostages (locked at the back of a room) 2: if one set of hostages are rescued ct's win. 3: the rescue must be similar to a" camp the site" situation so that the terrorists have to retake. 4: To rescue the hostage's you must hold the site like a hardpoint in call of duty. where at the end of the hold and terrorist's have failed to retake or die before the timer is up a door opens and the terrorists run out 5: if Ct's are pushed off the Rescue hardpoint the timer is paused at fixed point similar to the overwater 2 capture system where you have multiple attempts at pushing the site without a full reset.

[@cmams4196]

i wish anubis was added to the comp pool, literally my favorite map

[@radicalawesome]

was really hoping Anubis was next up, had some fun games on it and I felt if some clunky angles were removed it could easily be viable

[@darkrider9219]

Whats name of the music plays at ''intro'' and ''defuse vs hostage gamemode'' part ?

[@lukasg4807]

I disagree on hostage mode being fundamentally flawed. The problem with hostage mode is that the meta isn't as well known and developed.

[@TonyRidesDirtbikes]

It shows that you haven't played office at all.

[@WelcomeToLaMatanza]

CT Meta: smoke short mid, nade shelves, molotov kitchen, rescue the hostage, get confused because you are not sure in wich one of the 5 halls the kid screaming in your team was killed T Meta: Haha negev go brrrr

[@lukasg4807]

@@TonyRidesDirtbikes i have, with a cordinated team, its not nearly as T sided as people claim it to be.

[@TonyRidesDirtbikes]

@@lukasg4807 Then your playing against people wose than you lol.

[@lolikon30]

Such an underrated video. One of the best Philip did lately.

[@FilipCordas]

Maybe they should do one tournament a year where only new/hostage/experimental maps are played they could have the winner be an automatic major qualifier just so big teams have something to play for. Would be fun to see if certain maps work and are fun to watch.

[@unbridledenthusiasm]

I loved hostage maps back in the day. I also always used to think about what it would be like if you could do both modes in a map, i.e. doing defuse mode in Office, or hostage mode in inferno. And I will always love the long forgotten VIP mode -- as_oilrig RIP

[@unfortunately_fortunate2000]

Nice, just finished a solid PH jersey session and checked my notifications to see a kliksphilip video!

[@vahidki186]

you got too philosophical at the end there, I began to question my life. gg

[@karanjoshi2662]

Have a wildcard entry from these modes in big tournaments and pros will show players these new game modes.

[@tarunvesireddy9360]

I think neotokyos CTS mode is a good balance between attacking and defending. At the start, both teams attack each other to go to the middle or wherever the ghost is and try to capture it. Everyone can see a marker of representing the ghost on their hud at all times. When someone picks up the ghost, the marker will turn red, and as the person who dropped their primary weapon to pick up the ghost, the marker will stay on that person in real time and will move around wherever said person goes also in real time. Everyone on the opposing side will see this marker. However, the person who is carrying also sees the other team as a red marker in a radius. This marker also updates wherever the enemy moves about in real time. So the enemy can either choose to attack the ghost carrier or to try and camp the extraction point. However the ghost carriers team can also coordinate with his or her team and tell them where the enemy is, allowing them to go on the offensive. Or they can choose to camp the enemy’s extraction point to try and bait them into crossing the map to the other side and coming to them. They can also choose to try and cap the ghost by sticking to the carrier and listening to the carrier telling them where enemy’s are. If you are a recon class, you can also try zipping past everyone by using the three long jumps you have before running out of stamina while using the active camouflage ability and capping the ghost. Or you could do the same thing but instead off capping you could kill the lsat few players. But you get more points when you cap so choose whatever.

[@TheFloodFourm]

All my 100+ hours in CS Source took place on a 24\7 office server where end of match 1v1’s were settled with forced knife fights to the Mortal Kombat theme song.

[@encross8058]

Very well done analysis Philip :D

[@aaroanttila2537]

i think that CS might be become an ageless game where we play it 50 years from now and the people who remember the good old days of 1.6 are in their 80s. People have been playing basketball, soccer etc. for far longer than CS so i dont really see why these kinds of long lasting competitive games couldn't last.

[@AlphavilleXD]

I think the main problem with hostage maps is T's and CT's economy. On defuse maps economy makes sense - CT's have weaker, more expensive weapons, while T's have an opposite situation. Why? Because CT's don't suppose to rush terrorists, they suppose to hold bomb sites, which already gives them a huge advantage over terrorists. Thus, it makes sense to make T's weapons cheaper and more powerful, because they are the ones who push sides. However, on hostage maps this logic doesn't work. Not only maps are heavily T-sided, but the economy is crewed as well! Not only T's have both the "holding site" advantage and cheaper and better weapons, but they also can just buy SMGs, shotguns and negevs every round and still having thousands of $! I think if Valve would flip T's and CT's economy this game mode would change for better. But I don't know...I'm not really a game developer, so all I can do is just to complain

[@Robstrap]

You forgot to add the hitreg lottery part to the pie chart

[@mestupkid211986]

Everyone always forgets oilrig with the VIP that was a player controlled hostage, essentially.

[@villummTV]

Would be nice to see a tournament only played in this mode!

[@ApocalypseMoose]

Honestly, there is an inherent issue with attack/defend modes in general. While some games attempt to mitigate it and succeed better than others, there's always the sense that it is balanced more in favor of defenders.

[@orenong]

This was a very clear chart, you didn't have to explian it so much.

[@gamerbg294]

For me a solution for the game mode, still based on what he said is that in defuse mode, the bombs are well defined and separated from each other, so in the same way there should be a group of hostages well separated from each other for help of unattacked terrorists take a long time to arrive and then the counter terrorists could overlap numerically and thus facilitate the capture of some hostages and to prevent terrorists from being camping in the spawn, there should be a continuous damage system in certain places, simulating as if it were a place protected by police and exposing oneself in these places would mean being hit.

[@darrkstarg]

I started playing cs during beta 4 somewhere. I so miss the scoped colt

[@Ultra289]

13:46 well, i highly doubt It was "an alien thing" back then considering tf2 was alredy a thing in 2007 and ppl still play it to this day

[@jeffreyhartman7204]

Apollo was a great hostage map and made me love the mode

[@Rubashow]

During the Betas people had just begun to play multiplayer games. Most of the people in my class still did not even have a computer yet. Online play wasn't this ubiquitous. We played CS beta and were so clueless that nobody even tried to exploit the inherent imbalance in hostage maps. I must have played CS for 1-2 years until the first match were Terrorists just camped strategically around the hostages. I remember being totally baffled by that decision. First I was angry as F because I had no response. Second I asked myself why we hadn't come up with that strat ourselves. Mostly people just played it like team deathmatch. It was insanely enjoyable.

[@Turboactive]

I loved being T and "hostage jumping" back in the day. You press E to get the hostys to follow and then jump on their heads and keep jumping eventually all the hostages would be underneath you 50 ft in the air 😂. Spent so much of my life doing that instead of homework lol

[@prsyahmi]

I am a long time casual hostage player. The hostage map may feels unbalanced, but this feeling can be used to pull out the hostage in a funny unexpected ways even when high skilled players stack on T side. Office: CTs rushing can be funny, rush into the mid/connector after smoking and shotgun every Ts as most of the time they don't expect opponents to be in the mid. If the hostage is on easy mode, secure kitchen or side hall and game over for Ts. This map getting tougher with the introduction of laser negev. Assault: Wall bang map where Ts is confined and no spot is safe. Shoulders sticking out and you are dead. Most of the time the game can be win by killing all Ts OR rescuing the hostage in the final moment while less Ts alive. Lately I used negev in this map, storming main entrance and kill many Ts with it. Well, after such a long time playing on the roof, Ts now always look up. haha.. Militia: Looks hard, but this is the only map where most of the time Ts don't guard the hostage, just the entrance. Map where I laugh a lot after rescuing the hostage, the round just started, no people is dead+full server! but the hostage just get rescued and a long "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!", laugh and unbelievable moment. While Ts & CTs prepare to position themselves and busy fighting each other you can sneak through windows and get the hostage directly. Pros (in my region) will likely to position themselves on the roof, car, windwheel and sometimes guarding the front door. Your CTs friend need to help smoke at the front yard beginning of the round, flash before rushing and prepare smoke for getout through your way in. With low skilled opponent, this map can be super easy. 2-3 round rescuing the hostage through the front, mostly they all will reposition at the front and leave the other side open and then just flip flop. Front has 4 main entrance: door, windows, windwheel/side, roof. Just need to switch entrance each round before starting going to narrow tunnel. Applying the same strategy in less-populated server can be impossible as it relies on distraction. Agency: I think this is the most balanced map since it has a big gap between Ts and CTs Italy: No word right now I love unbalanced map as added challenges, but for me, all hostages map are well balanced and a lot of variances can be played... maybe people just afraid of playing them as I almost always get the same opponent over the years.

[@void735]

I actually like hostage more then bomb. But I think the biggest issue is that the path into the hostage is usualy so tight it encourages camping when there should be many ways into the hostage zone to encourage either sneaking in since T cant possibly cover every angle with ease or more swat raid tactics.

[@gehteuchnixan69]

those were the times... trying to rescue those hostages in beta 3, that tended to get stuck on every corner, even on cs_mansion :D

[@JamesKelly-tn2oz]

I think there is a way to make hostage a much more balanced and much more fun game mode. How about spreading the hostages out more so it's more like two separate sites. That way it's easier for the cts to pick one of the sites to attack. Choosing spawn points is a good idea as well for this. Then the big change would be to have a system to make the game more dynamic so that once the cts have rescued a hostage to the zone, there is an evacuation time period where they have to defend the hostage. The ts would have to go and kill the cts and/or recover the hostage (not sure how to balance it) before the hostage is evacuated. At the very least it might make the game more more interesting to play.

[@Agile_]

Insertion 1 and 2 are the best hostage maps to ever exist. Their open concept and ability for ct's to attack from multiple open angles helps level the playing field. The angles are so wide and allow for more sneaky gameplay. Stealing the hostage puts in more tension when on T side becuase the chase isn't limited to tight corridors, but open fields and more complex areas. I have always wanted these maps to be adopted into the active duty as I think they are the key to making hostage mode more viable

[@elarmino6590]

Hostage need the following changes - There must be 2/3 CTs per Ts - The rounds have to be really long (10 min minimum 20 maximum) and be 2 wins for winning in MM (Best of 3) - Terrorists have to have the advantage of terrain but limits on their weapons buy to simulate an initial situation of being surrounded, while CTs can have double/triple money and unlimited time to buy - The reintroduction of buying cartridges would be ideal in that scenario - There has to be strong incentives not to kill and hold/rescue hostages, money for the 2/3 round can be one or some other juicy bonus

[@Swag22ify]

Hank was a gem collector, precious gems are wicked expensive.

[@crashkid3000]

Maps and the gamemode itself play a big role in deciding the balance of the game, but so does the available weapons and utility arsenal. The new riot shield feels like a step in the right direction, but I feel that we've come such a long way with CS that we simply cannot use the same weapos for CS and DE modes anymore. We should get new side-exclusive weapons for the CS mode (weak/medium grade weapons are naturally balanced), and perhaps even think about restricting access to strong weapons that are primarily used for defending (such as snipers). As it plays right now, Ts have cheaper economy, the positional advantage AND the stronger guns, and that's plenty to overcome, especially with underpowered equipment. You wouldn't even need to introduce completely new weapons (as in: an AK-74, or a G36) but use exisiting ones in a varied fashion. For instance, the CT's FAMAS/M4/AUG could be replaced with a M4/SCAR (w/o scope, less damage, higher fire rate, equalling the AK in strength)/SG553, whereas the Ts Galil/AK/SG553 could be replaced with a /Galil/G3 (w/o scope, lower damage, slightly higher fire rate. Still one-shot to the head, but low fire rate makes it more suited to long range firefights). Maybe you could even bring back ye ol' reliable silenced MP9 for that mode! That approach would at least solve the problem with exisiting skins and potentially oversupplying the market.

[@MFKitten]

In R6 Siege it's ended up the same, with defuse being the preference. The others are interesting also, but Hostage is still the lesser gamemode.

[@mugginator7386]

The best and balanced wingman map is the hostage map Paro. I played it during a mapcore tournament, I feel like everyone should try it at some point.

[@glitchedgameryt]

Honestly I mainly play hostage as it is something new to me, when I was introduced to valorant when it came out as the full release that was the first game that had defuse that I played, and then I tried cs:go after watching some videos on it. So seeing hostage is what is new to me so I like it more. I do still play defuse in cs:go maybe not as much but I do still play it. Both games have their pros and cons. I love both games.

[@feliox_]

even though defuse maps are way better than hostage maps, I think that valve aren't really trying to make it a fan favorite... For example, Italy is, imo, by far the best hostage map, but It's not even available anymore. Of course, it being an hostage map, it cant really come close to the quality of gameplay a defuse map can offer, but I think that Italy still has the power of showing the player that hostage map can, sometimes, be nice. If I had to guess, I think that Italy might be one of the next map to get a visual remake, and hopefully valve will also rethink the map and the fundamenrals of hostage mode to make it more coherent and fair to the players.

[@Mekaniac]

the numbers on the charts are confusing but great video love it

[@judebreheny3925]

Pi chart with fixed map/game mode bias values is an excellent and clear way to show your theory. Is it possible to achieve 0 variance? And if not, what do you think the minimum variance possible is?

[@mistermalignant]

As someone who is a hostage mode player, I get why people don't like it and don't play it. However, it's sparked a little community of people that are dedicated to it, and sometimes you'll come across the same players on different days. It's like a little gathering in a way, and I'm fine with that.

[@Matt-hy9qj]

I completely understand the community’s resistance to change. The highly competitive players find enjoyment in optimizing gameplay. How would chess Grandmasters feel if we started trying to add new pieces and mechanics into the game? A lot of resistance I would assume. It’s far from a perfect game, but I think they enjoy the optimization process and pushing the limits of what’s in place.

[@gytux0258]

The ending lines remind me of sports. Basketball or football remain essentially the same over time.

[@Thoern]

that was a great dolly zoom at 2:09

[@yahavshalem5692]

Great video, but the chart at 6:50 is a little too informational, I would personally prefer a chart like pragerU, where you put vague terms on the x and y axis and just draw a rising squiggly line

[@Start3rPack]

I think a map that allows for discrete take over for CTs, kinda like actual hostage situations. You'd have a top to bottom path, start on the room and take to small pathways through vents or behind the walls. The Ts have a large roomto protect but have too many exposed positions to stay safe. You can watch corridor but the vent to your right could have a CT on his way. Has a team collaboration effort to it. Of course treating it like Defuse, each hostage has a long rotation. So if one hostage is compromised, the Ts have to commit to a rotate. The fifth player would come in to play, having the team think which side would be hard pushed or ignored. If it's ignored one can stay watch for any sneaky CTs trying to do a reversal takeover. I think Hostage can be good, just need better maps for it. Office is outdated and needs a good replacement.

[@nekrosis4431]

Temporarily adding maps like basalt, moccha etc. is actually quite smart and the should make both types of players happy. Wanna play comp. but bored of the same maps, there are 2 new maps, which regularly change for new ones. Want to learn a map to perfection, highly competitive and balanced? Active map pool has been refined for a decade. There is no big need to change the active map pool often, if you can play the fresh hot maps in ranked aswell.

[@MakotoIchinose]

Even back when I played CS 1.6, I played defuse mode more than hostage mode. It's just more fun playing hundreds of rounds in either CT or T side, and even playing with bots, in defuse mode. Though cs_italy is one of my favourite hostage map.

[@conorrkful]

I love hostage mode on classic maps no matter if its T sided. Brings back memories

[@MrSpako13]

Why cant there be 2 different locations for the hostage rescue? I feel like this would be alot better as Ts didnt know which hostage spot they need to camp

[@trashcleaner]

I love to start with CT in the office. It's just really annoying to lose with an average 100 score sometimes.

[@punk92punk]

I agree with you 100%. Great vid, carry on borhter!

[@Jackman781]

gotta love a new 3kliksphil video. You da man!! Great video and one question. When tf is the mirage update coming???

[@Sagaleon14]

hi Philip thank you for making videos, they’re nice