COURTROOM INSIDER | Ted Bundy's cousin tells all

Tonight on 'Courtroom Insider,' Ted Bundy's cousin talks about her book 'Dark Tide.' It's the first memoir written by a Bundy blood relative and Edna Cowell Martin, together with Megan Atkinson, tells all.
Join us for this in-depth conversation - and if you have questions for Edna and Megan, post them in the comments below.

[@AnnPorterCourtTherapist]

Thank you Courtroom Insider for providing a virtual space for Edna Cowell Martin to tell her story so that we can be her audience as her listeners for her to share her written story to help her get Ted Bundy out of her head (something she kept it her head for 50 years as she said). It would be great to have a 2nd show for audience questions with Ms. Cowell Martin.

[@cheesehead4670]

This is fascinating! Ted Bundy actually approached my mother in the parking lot of Lincoln Park in Seattle, with his “broken arm” con. My mom thought “what grown man would ask a young lady to help him with heavy equipment?”, thank god, and said no.

[@dreadede]

I’ve always wondered that too. That would have been my red flag

[@dreadede]

Just wanna add, I don’t think I would have been help lifting a sailboat. Like I would have been thinking, how did you get the boat from your car into the lake? If your arm is broke, why where you taking out your boat at all and by yourself. I have so many questions from the Lake Sam* day.

[@cheesehead4670]

@@dreadede Yes! Exactly, especially back then when men’s view of women was as these useless fragile creatures. 😆 But sadly, the Lake Sam day is also sad as one of the victims, Denise was a friend of my mother. I could never understand, as a kid, why my mom was so paranoid. It wasn’t until I was grown that she told me all this.

[@dreadede]

@@cheesehead4670 Yes, was he preying on women’s lib? I often wondered if he was irritated by independent women. I can see a up and coming independent women feeling flatter that he didn’t think a women was too weak to help a “wounded man”. You could also say he preyed on women’s nature to help

[@dreadede]

@@cheesehead4670 Also, sorry to hear your mother knew Denise. I can only imagine the things that went through our mother’s generation when this was going on. I was born in 73, I grew up with my head on swivel. So many serial killers came out around this time.

[@Sassylarita]

My sister and I had an encounter with Ted in Phoenix, Arizona at the Carnation Ice Cream Restaurant. We were sitting in a booth and he was sitting at the counter. I looked up and he was staring at me with a smile on his face. I don’t remember how he ended up sitting in the booth with us. He was dressed in a brown turtleneck sweater and I asked him why he was dressed like that in Phoenix. He explained that he had just driven in from Colorado where it was much colder. That got us to talking about John Denver and his song Rocky Mountain High Colorado. This was in January or February 1974. We decided to go to our home to listen to music. I know, how stupid were my sister and me! We go out to our cars. I had just bought a Capri. He tried to convince me to let my 15 old sister to drive my car and I would ride with him to make sure he wouldn’t get lost. I told him I would not let my unlicensed sister drive my car. We walked over to his VW and he opened the passenger door and there was no passenger seat and some tools, etc., on the tiny back seat. We asked him why there was no front seat and he said he would sleep in his car and was able to stretch out. He followed us to our home, went back to our bedroom and started listening to records. In talking with him we explained that we had been raised by our grandparents and now living with our aunt and uncle and grandmother. My aunt came home and was furious that we had brought a stranger to our home and kicked him out and he left. I never thought another thing about him until 2013. I was on the computer and looking at news headlines and it showed a picture of Ted Bundy’s car on display in Germany. I clicked on the article and couldn’t believe it! It was the VW, same color, same black interior without the front seat! I quickly googled Ted Bundy and up pops a picture of the same guy in the brown turtleneck, brown hair and penetrating eyes! That is when I realized that my grandmother’s prayers had protected us. I’m think the reason he didn’t attack us is he realized we had been raised like him with grandparents and the fact there were two of us and my aunt kicked him out. I can still remember that day and how he tried so hard to convince me to ride with him. I looked a lot like his victims with long brown hair parted in the middle. I contacted Ann Rule and asked her if she knew if he had been in Arizona. She answered and said not that she knew of, but she felt that we had met Ted.

[@sherryware]

I lived in Glenwood Springs, Colorado in 1977 when he escaped from the Garfield County jail there in town. Scary times. I was 21 then. Great interview, Nate. Fills in a lot of gaps in the news stories I heard back then.

[@Retried77]

Thanks so much Nate! Very interesting. Loved this interview very much.

[@Slightlybent]

Actually, Ted was born in Vermont in a hospital for unwed mothers. When Louise and Ted went back to Philly, Ted was raised to believe that his grandparents were his parents and Louise was his sister.

[@westleaf11]

I transferred to the UW in 1973. I met Linda Ann Healey as she was dating a guy on 7 th floor of McMahon hall. Linda went missing in February of 74 from what I remember. At that time nobody knew there was a serial killer running around. I could have walked right by him (Ted) when I was going to classes or down to the Ave. Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined what turned out to be the Ted Bundy killings.

[@cindyrogers1834]

thanks for a great interview. Edna is my age and I grew up in Seattle I remember so much of this and there was a lot of trauma and fear in the community.

[@GrizzlyUrsusArctos]

Megan. Why do you keep interrupting the woman who actually lived this? Fascinating story. But I’d like it better with just the cousin.

[@hkitty1685]

My thoughts exactly!

[@joannayeo9545]

She’s constantly nodding when not speaking to let us know she’s there. Very irritating.

[@Kellyc888]

Yes, my thoughts precisely! Most who would have enough interest to watch the video already know the story of the crimes, and simply want to hear Edna’s experience. I found Megan’s presence and numerous insertions very grating.

[@AchievingAllOfMe]

I know you’re not an exclusive true crime reporter…but, you’re still my favorite true crime reporter…aside from Keith Morrison🙃… but you have a lot in common with him as far as delivering facts with empathy and respect. Thanks Nate!

[@deehalls2313]

Great interview Nate. Thank you

[@blureader1164]

Does his daughter have contact with the family? Ted did the double life thing with Ann Rule too, walking her to her car because "Ted" was out there.

[@tinavallejo3801]

I studied him when I was in college for my degree. He was intelligent and evil. He is one of the base line serial killers that serial killers cases are profiled by.

[@mungojerry]

Incredible conversation. This is so insightful. Thanks to the relatives.

[@Mystlyn26]

Good interview, I have heard Edna talk before, but not to this extent. Very interesting, but it must be so horrific to know or to be related to such a narcissistic, manipulative monster. Sorry for what Edna and the family went through, kinda know how Bryan Kohberger's family must be feeling. Thank you as always Nate. 🩷🦔🩷

[@ackhak]

I was also thinking about similarities with the Brian Kohberger case. Thanks for a great interview Nate!

[@texasgina]

Oh my goodness yes!

[@Carolyn-e5o]

My mom was struggled by Ted, she lived. I have severe PTSD because of what happened. I was only 7yrs old at the time

[@heatherstephens9295]

All I can say is wow 😮 Not an experience I would like to have gone through - thank you ladies 👏👏🇳🇿

[@deborah7164]

I have so much respect for Nate as a reporter/ interviewer

[@Slightlybent]

I was in high school when his Washington and Utah murders took place. I still remember when he escaped the second time. No one knew where he was until the murders in Florida, so it was weird wondering if he was in my area coz no one knew where he was. It was scary. And the wild thing was that he looked so freaking normal. He didn't look like the monster he was. Only his victims saw that face.

[@GaliSinatra]

QUESTION: Does Edna and Megan think that Ted was telling the truth to forensic psychologist Al Norman when he told him, in a recorded interview, that he killed two women at the Jersey Shore in early summer of 1969? Susan Davis and Elizabeth Perry were found on the side of the Garden State Parkway and the case was never solved. He was investigated for it but they couldn't pin it on him. Ted told the Dr Norman that it "ended up being the first time." I grew up in that area, to us, it was him.

[@laniejones8747]

Great interview. I always want to know why? What sparked it? Was he abused? Did he kill animals as a child? Best wishes as you continue to heal. 💙

[@tjbrat44]

Ordering book tonight!!! One of his victim's remains was found near HAFB in Utah, where I lived. I've read everything i could found in regards to Ted. I am a true crime fanatic. He definitely left a stain in Utah.

[@mardyross2838]

I'm just over in Colorado, GJ, where he struck 1x that I know yet haven't heard how he contacted the woman / victim.

[@gulliblesbabbles]

NATE: Love and appreciate your coverage, approach and delivery. EDNA OR MEGAN: Thank you both for sharing this. I feel like oftentimes we get a very superficial version of what happened on these high profile cases. The facade of normality he presented is truly scary. QUESTION: I’m confused about Ted’s Mother / sister / grandmother situation. Was Ted born out of wedlock to his sister and initially raised by his grandparents? THANK YOU, ALL.

[@msaijay1153]

He was born to his mother and initially raised as if his grandparents were his parents and his mother as if she was his sister. Then he figured it out.

[@Lavender-blue80]

As far as I know he was raised by grandparents, thought his mother was his sister, eventually learned the truth when his biological mother took him to live with her and her new husband. Ted adopted his stepfather’s surname which was Bundy. Ann Rule wrote a really good book on the case. I think it’s called, “The Stranger Beside Me.” She worked alongside him at Lifeline or some such organisation.

[@rich9697]

Thank you, Nate.

[@ackhak]

How did the rest of the family respond to learning the truth about Ted? Especially his mother? (That poor woman!) But also how did Edna’s parents react, since they’d been so close to Ted?

[@Betty-qz5zd]

I understand this interview was for the perspective of the cousin. People who aren't as familiar with the case may be interested to know that an early important tip to the police was from Bundy's girlfriend Liz. After Lake Sammamish newspaper reports included the name Ted, his arm in a cast and the VW bug, Liz found plaster of paris cast making supplies in the bathroom. He was absolutely on LE radar, and he was arrogant about meticulously cleaning his car inside and out in front of them when he knew he was being surveilled. I guess they didn't have enough cause for a search warrant to prevent that cleaning. Also, not mentioned in this interview is that he was caught in Florida because of eye witness accounts relating to the abduction of 12 year old Kimberly Leach. Bless all souls of his victims, known and unknown.

[@e2theoc]

My god…Hiding in plain sight… a fascinating insight. She has a great memory too. And it just highlights both Teds sly charm, and the incompetence of the police!

[@Dragonfly5455]

Was able to borrow the audible from the library.... starting it tonight

[@loislane856]

Would Edna approve of Netflix doing a documentary on this book?

[@lindasmart6450]

Fascinating interview and even more fascinating book. Well written and unputdownable - love those kinds of books!

[@barbaraabramovitz9987]

So fascinating. Thanks for this insightful interview!

[@texasgina]

Thank you for this interview ❤

[@deninejackson2316]

So fascinating. I can't imagine being close to someone that could do such horrible things.

[@Luvscience069]

Hi, my questions are 1: Have you considered or went to his trial? 2: Where do the profits go from this book? Thank you for being brave.

[@annegallagher7558]

? Looking back were there any indications that Ted was not what he seemed? How he interacted with women, things he did or said, etc. Great interview - can't wait to read the book!

[@katrinarafuse4318]

Who is this Megan person? What's her relation to this?

[@Slightlybent]

I think she helped Edna write the book.

[@GrizzlyUrsusArctos]

She’s kind of pushy

[@kimberlynance2711]

Seems this Megan knows everything and is controlling what Ted’s cousin is saying. I’m not sure who Megan is. She’s nodding if the cousin is saying what she likes and interjects if she doesn’t say what is expected. Glad they have been able to publish a book.

[@AkFlyFishersmembers]

I lived in Utah until 1978. Everyone left porch lights on for Debbie Kent, who Ted confessed to killing. Scary times for young women - especially those with features matching his victims.

[@RamghetAB]

How did these two get together? I am assuming Megan is a writer (impressive woman as an interview buddy for Edna).

[@RamghetAB]

Megan Atkinson is a screenwriter and writer living in the Pacific Northwest and Los Angeles. She received her MFA in screenwriting from UCLA. Did Edna contact her or visa versa?

[@RamghetAB]

Megan has an author page under Simon and Schuster.

[@cellison9414]

Wow! Fascinating story, great interview - I see a best selling book and movie ahead, I really do! Fantastic!

[@Drae_Dirt]

Thanks Eaton! Hmm... I wonder why its surprising violent criminals acting normal bc its what we actually do know- We probably have more in common than not. We don't, however know what it is like to live out the types of acts we typically hear about serial killers committing. 9:33- interesting. if I had a T.Bundy in my family I would be mostly disturbed at the gruesome sh+t committed plus the whopping 30 victims (at a minimum) So naturally, I'd have to conclude the fact that I never really knew much about X fam. member.

[@hippielogger1090]

So Nate, are you willing to report on the Adams girls from Arizona?

[@mastoyshop]

Hard to believe I went to UW when he was around, someone pointed him out to me saying “isn’t he handsome” and I looked and said, he gives me the creeps. lol I later went to sea u and met Anne Rule and we were in touch til she became ill.

[@Slightlybent]

Great interview, Nate!

[@brendabrunson3704]

Thanks Nate. This is really interesting cause I remember this well.Have you heard the latest oñ LoriVallow,claiming Tylee killed JJ

[@toniblackmore3016]

Available on Audible - just downloaded it.

[@lizmackenzie8240]

What a fascinating interview. I can't wait to hear more. I don't know if anyone has asked this but was Ted abused as a kid at all? I have watched the shows about him but don't recall hearing anything about that with him. But how else does a man turn into such an evil monster?

[@user-qf8dz1ze8l]

I lived close to Lk Sammamish in 1974 in Bellevue and we could not play outside after dark that day he kidnapped the girls from that lake. I was 6 years old and didn't know why until many years later when I asked. Bellevue was a safe place in those days until then.

[@hkitty1685]

I don’t like this Megan. I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be rude. But she’s not the cousin and I feel like she’s trying to take over what Edna is saying as if she’s the one who knew Ted personally.

[@cinndot]

QQQ Did he find out who his bio dad was?

[@tumbleweedweed3691]

Jack Worthington is his biological father

[@nikigoutis5926]

What was his childhood like? How was his relationship with his mom?

[@melanietaylor2137]

Did Dr. James Dobson meet with Ted Bundy before his execution?

[@Teach-in8gp]

Did he ever kill one of his relatives?

[@tinavallejo3801]

How could you not notice his behavior of killing women around you and not notice?

[@tumbleweedweed3691]

Because he was a psychopath who was successful in compartmentalizing his behavior and appeared normal

[@punky19761]

Psychopaths often don’t feel things like fear. So he truly could do these things and drive away and it was probably no different than driving away from a drive thru for him. He would simply go do the next thing on his daily agenda.

[@msaijay1153]

He wasn't actually killing people around his cousin

[@cskillet2003]

I'm used to hearing Nate doing Secret Santa interviews... this just seems wrong.

[@texasgina]

Yeah, but he goes to crime con and he meets all of these different people and most of us that have followed the Lori and Chad Dumbell case from the very beginning have really become or have been true crime followers

[@tenaciousduk6587]

Wow.

[@cynicalcely6015]

STOP JUMPING IN!!!!

[@gailstarchuk7846]

😮

[@kimberlyschleiger6196]

😮😮😮

[@RemyNas24]

Ummmm 👀👀👀👀

[@jeanettefuller6354]

My question is, when you were in the car and had just realised he had done these things who was the first person you told and what did they think? 🦘🐨🦘🐨😃