Craziest ever robot fight: James v Depth Charge at NHRL

[@fritz46]

Depth Charge is impressive, but it didn't show more controlled movement than a cell phone trying to vibrate itself from a table.

[@RennieAsh]

Someone is calling you. 0:06 Person dey call ya foan! 2:26

[@Nyg5618]

Exactly

[@fagocol98]

Yeah that's not how the judge control

[@jawms]

@@fagocol98 then what criteria do they use?

[@fagocol98]

I wrote a comment explaining it see if you can find it

[@chairforceoneYT]

depth charge did more damage to the arena than its opponent

[@zakpike8019]

I mean it essentially took itself out no idea how it won at all it was completely immobilized when it hit the wall even if the other bot was also immobile wich it didn't seem to be it still should have won because it was the only one that even did anything

[@owlsayssouth]

​@@zakpike8019it wasn't immobilized. The match ended Because the cage was breeched.

[@Ambipie]

​@@zakpike8019it was not immobilized it was twirling in a circle

[@simonharris4873]

@@Ambipie Really? I didn't see it move after the impact. Also looked like one of the rotors was bent.

[@tacobell2009]

​@@simonharris4873 It didn't move, because they stopped the match when the glass broke. Both robots were still functional.

[@eveeellam995]

James should have won that decision. James' weapon was already down at the start of the match, and only took minor damage from Depth Charge. How Depth Charge got any points in control at all is baffling seeing as how it's entire fight consisted of: throwing itself into the arena just to get out of the starting square; vibrating in a circle menacingly (how is that considered controlled motion?); being delivered into the side of the arena courtesy of James.

[@kderrida]

It's awful. If they're going to allow so little control I can't see how a robot that's just a 360 degree blade with no movement wouldn't perform the same or better.

[@huntzzio]

I agree. I would put control 4-1 in favor of James (1 pt to DC bc, well, I dont think James should get all of it, it wasnt totally in control of robot). Aggression is normally done by weapon aggression so 3-2 to DC. Damage however, James was impaired by damage done WITH WEAPON (not to wall, not to floor, not to James weapon that wasnt shut off via DC), however even though DC was scraping at James, if you look at slomo, it didnt give a big hit to James, it hit the wall, and James came out of that better, so 3-2 Damage to James. Or ig you could give damage 3-2 to DC but eh.

[@fagocol98]

Control is not judged by movement

[@cheezytaterz6776]

Well you gotta consider how does James earn any points at all? not having a weapon, doing barley any damage. The other bot was pretty much a ticking time bomb, it technically did damage.

[@Thatguy2-502]

I think the control points came from the fact that Depth Charge controlled the pacing of the match because it was so dangerous that James waited 105 seconds to even attempt to attack it. James' controller was too scared of Depth Charge to even approach it. technically Depth Charge was attempting to advance on James the entire time. While James did put Depth Charge on an angle and shove him into a wall, that was only towards the end. Pushing Depth Charge onto a 45 degree angle also did nothing but slow him down a bit and change the angle of attack. He was still able to move. Now for the last bit. The push to the wall and KO of Depth Charge. As some people have said. The moment the Lexan Glass on the Big Box broke, the match ended. It went offline after it hit the ground. It was still functional at the moment the glass broke. Now if the entire thing had happened without the glass breaking, it would have been a knockout in favor of James. That's the best for what I can think the judges were thinking. As for myself, Depth Charge would have been counted out for lack of transitional movement at the very start of the match. The brush movement has potential, but it was in such an early stage as to render Depth Charge little more than a very dangerous rotating hazard.

[@GeneralMalaize]

James was the winner by most any Robo battle competition I've ever seen. The simple fact it was still functioning at the end should have relieved the need for a decision.

[@dustine4150]

James was not fully functional, they had no weapon. Depth Charge was fully functional after the arena breach

[@Mitsou44]

Minibot was also destroyed

[@Saanjie]

​@@dustine4150 It had no weapon and still managed to find a way to destroy the enemy? That's even more impressive!

[@dustine4150]

@@Saanjie A non-operational weapon counts as damage, or a disqualification if it doesn't have one

[@rayzuke1232]

@@dustine4150 Look at it this way. James weapon malfunction. But it could move. Depth Charge had no malfunction and couldn't move. It was just vibrating. Its such a massive slowpoke that the referee could have immediately started a countdown asking for movement. Seriously each bot should be able to go from 1 wall to the opposite site within 10 seconds at least meanwhile depthcharge would take at this rate 2 whole minutes provided it doesn't fling itself by DAMAGING the floor. James could at least engage Depth charge. Meanwhile Depth charge would be challenged to engage a traffic cone.

[@ratheonhudson3311]

I respect the cage designers who put that second panel there. "I don't think 1 is enough" and me, "Thanks for keeping us safe"

[@poppinlochnesshopster3249]

The insurance company, more likely. 1 is plenty. All of that energy was dispersed by breaking the Lexan as heat/friction.

[@sayethwe8683]

@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 except the second layer caught all the splinters from the first one and kept them from going into the crowd.

[@hologaster]

@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 The first one is to disperse the energy. The second one is to block any of the splinters.

[@brigadgeneralvoid2508]

@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 Ever heard of spalling?

[@Variable-2-actual]

Well when that one show killed 2 or 3 spectators they realized that they needed better protection than they had.

[@RJTheBikeGuy]

How did Depth Charge score ANY points for control? It doesn't even seem to have a drive train. Just brushes, and it spins around randomly. And it looked dead at the end. Not impressed with the judges at all.

[@fagocol98]

You are thinking about the wrong type of control

[@blockstacker5614]

I think it steers by having one of the spinners go faster than the other one while the brushes cause it to move forwards constantly

[@AndrewBlechinger]

@@blockstacker5614 holy shit, that's actually really ingenious.

[@Madhuntr]

@@blockstacker5614 actually no but yes. both "blades" spin at the same speed constantly since they are only driven by 1 belt so they have to be connected. the key here is building the rotational speed until its stable and then speeding up or slowing down to turn left or right. But seems it´s not perfected yet but still a very cool design. and powerful AF damn

[@jaydeleon8094]

match ends when barrier breaks, it "died" after that broke, so its treated separately

[@Nictator42]

James definitely outplayed depth charge that fight. The operators had to find an opening to gain control of the situation and they did, knowing full well that a direct hit would knock them out entirely. Excellent driving

[@volodymyr_budii]

Breaking the cage stop the game on stop. When it happened, the DC was working, so by the rules it was not knocked out. BTW, was it knocked out? You can't know about it in a video, since by rules you have to stop all your weapons when cage is broken, and since DC uses spinner to move, he couldn't move after.

[@Leto_0]

Not a huge statement when all it takes to outplay Depth charge is to have wheels

[@tumo07]

@@volodymyr_budiiother bots if it can not drive it’s ko but not this bot? Okay

[@volodymyr_budii]

@@tumo07 Such were the rules, and by the rules game stopped when it was still working. It was not me who wrote the rules.

[@atapene]

.... they ran away the whole fight

[@markrugman5577]

The scariest thing here is the judges decision!

[@ke6gwf]

The judges voted on Depth Charge vs The House, and completely forgot about the other robot with better strategy! Lol

[@fagocol98]

No Judges where right

[@TheKaneECO]

@@fagocol98 I don't see how. Given that James KO'd depth charge.

[@fagocol98]

@@TheKaneECO actually when something happens like the barriers shattering, every one turns off bots The moment the wall shattered the match ended, even if the impact from deth charge hitting the ground ko it, it happened after the match ended

[@rzon]

@@fagocol98 so a reckless, uncontrollable robot wins?

[@ExtremeSquared]

The problem with not requiring controllable forward movement to win a fight is that both bots could just spin around in their corner until the timer ends.

[@kderrida]

yeah, but who had the *most aggressive* spins

[@JonatasAdoM]

@@kderrida Is it baybladding now

[@kderrida]

@@JonatasAdoM IT IS!! Someone should lean into that, make a Beyblade themed robot

[@irrelevantsafety]

Imagine actual giant beyblades

[@kderrida]

@@irrelevantsafety is THAT what beyblades is short for? Beyond blades?

[@mkaleborn]

James had a lethal weapon - Depth Charge - and used it to defeat his opponent: Depth Charge. Brilliant game by James.

[@JoeLinux2000]

Depth Charge is an uncontrollable robotic weapon that is constantly spinning out of control. It's a good example of a mindless robot.

[@Atmatan]

A good example of bad design

[@gooseinatuxedo]

​@@Atmatandeliberately funny design*

[@bestaround3323]

​@@AtmatanEffective design

[@greengoblin9567]

it would have been overpowered if it was able to move

[@Nempo13]

@@bestaround3323 If you cannot actually control it's movement and move FORWARD then it should be rejected out of hand. All robots should be able to move forward and turn both directions. Not being able to control where you go means you have no control at all and it should be tossed out.

[@VoltageTripwire]

What's even scarier is the fact that the blades didn't just shatter the inner layer, it gouged a good couple of inches into the lexan before shattering. THAT'S F***ING TERRIFYING. I'M JUST GLAD EVERYONE WAS SAFE.

[@RennieAsh]

It probably shattered _because_ it gouged into the lexan, got caught in it and contributed a force to it that is not usually experienced - along the plane of the material :)

[@VoltageTripwire]

@@RennieAsh Yeah, yeah I can see that happening. Good point out.

[@phantomgaming7544]

@@RennieAsh in the end, you can also see DC fall from the sky after it shatters the pane as it seemed to have enough force to hit the roof of the big box

[@Hauntedundead]

Not sure why nobody mentions it but imho what is scary is the blades look shorter when it is spinning (see the floor and the trail in the wood it leaves being dragged to the edge).

[@Skylikesavation]

@@Hauntedundeadit’s either a camera thing or I saw other people suggesting it’s creating sufficient air pressure to blast the paint off which based on the seemingly uninterrupted movement at that time seems likely: Edit after rewinding certain parts and slowing it down it actually may be both, there’s a section of the disks that is harder to see because of less material at that point however it looks like even that part isn’t quite touching the floor during the push into the glass but it’s very close to the floor if it isn’t touching

[@Nyg5618]

How does James not win? Depth charge was in pieces motionless at the end.

[@rigdigwus]

Because he did FUCKING NOTHING???? it took him ages to even move in the right direction

[@zapperwapper13]

The match ended the instant the arena broke, and depth charge was fully operational at that point.

[@chpsilva]

​@@zapperwapper13 in other words, complete BS

[@Zomtism]

​@@chpsilvain other words depth charges opponent never broke the cage and therefore clearly loses

[@natethenotsogreat8349]

Depth charge is a very entertaining robot so they wanted it to move on

[@ke6gwf]

The judges voted on Depth Charge vs The House, and completely forgot about the other robot with better strategy! Lol

[@outkast937]

Well depth charge managed to prove that the house doesn't always win 😂

[@tahrey]

They probably let it win because they were scared it might gain sentience and come after them

[@linkmandrew]

James darting in and out avoiding the heavy attacks felt like a Dark Souls boss fight

[@SpaceMissile]

great description. haha

[@katzea.a7880]

Bed of chaos

[@TheVigilante2000]

I liked this fight as an oddity, BUT it's kind of BS. It's basically 100% weapon with weight bonus. If you get a bonus to weight for not using wheels, you should still have to move as well as if you had wheels (at least somewhat).

[@HiltownJoe]

Yes, i would suggest a test where the bot has to drive over a few waypoints in a given timeframe. Before the turnament each bot should have to show adequate levels of controlled movement.

[@youkofoxy]

perhaps they should add a minimum turn rate and land speed. having a turn rate of 30 RPM and land speed of 0.5 meters peer second should be the minimum.

[@phantomgaming7544]

This is a show that allows people to build weaponized robots whether they have wheels or not, it shows the creativity of the people who made both robots and if their weapons fail at any point, they have to figure something else, DC however would've been counted out if it didn't have the brushes and the weapon vibration for movement, the brushes replace the wheels so as long as you have control of the weapon, you can move around, just a bit slower

[@lil-j-waters]

this just nerfs movement, by raising the skill floor as a design and engineering challenge. makes robots more similar and less creative. idk

[@drdca8263]

@@lil-j-watersIf the floor for movement isn’t very high, would that be much of an issue?

[@125AXer]

Devastating power and destructive capability.... but the James robot won that bout. C'mon, judges!

[@PersonOfRandomnesss]

Power means nothing if you can't control it or use it - or even worse: have it used against you.

[@codename1176]

So winners don’t win here huh? James won depth lost

[@Mortified42]

@@PersonOfRandomnesss Yet Depth Charge had a higher control score...lol

[@rayzuke1232]

@@PersonOfRandomnesss or even worse, move it.

[@zombine555]

​@@Mortified42control of the match, not control of the bot.

[@coopers1716]

Killing a robot with it's own weapon is sick, James gets all the points.

[@OneBiasedOpinion]

I love the concept behind Depth Charge, but that decision should have absolutely gone to James. No contest at all. DC needs to be reworked to have much more mobility before it can be allowed to fight again.

[@jesusalfredofernandezcruz1833]

They can refix him as a coaxial rotor to better control.

[@willworkforicecream]

At the start of James's push I assumed that Depth Charge was going to saw through the floor. And then that happened.

[@allthingspi]

Don't worry, they did that in a later match instead.

[@JonatasAdoM]

@@allthingspi And somehow managed even more points I reckon

[@Kualinar]

Deep Charge had exactly zero control. So, HOW could it get any points for control. Then, as it could not move in a controlled manner, then, HOW could it get ANY point for aggression ? As for the damage... It should only be attributed for intentional damage inflicted in a controlled manner. Had been a judge for that fight, I would have given it zero points.

[@jgamerk1222]

James might have lost points for aggression for being very boring and non engaging while Depth Charge seemed like it was trying to do something.

[@fagocol98]

Control is not movement

[@Kualinar]

@@fagocol98 Control is not movement BUT it imply movement, transitional movement, not just rotation. Think about it for a moment. Just look at all of the fights where a bot got counted out JUST because it got incapable of having transitional movement. In most other series, Deep Charge would have been counted out after about 20 to 30 second of the match because it could ONLY rotate. In this match, it should have been counted out. That win was totally undeserved.

[@Kualinar]

@@jgamerk1222 Maybe, but it should have points for control and some points for damage for slamming Deep Charge into the wall.

[@fagocol98]

@@Kualinar think about it more like a control point in a video game And yes I do agree with you that in other robot leagues he would be out because of 0 controlled movement

[@GregorifElfeNoir]

It should have been counted out from the point it was just standing in the center without any controlled movement :/ Yes, big weapons make a good show, but if thats what you call "robot fight" lets just toss 2 live chainsaws in a box and call it a day :/

[@demolisherman1763]

I mean I would probably still watch two live chainsaws in a box, although most likely not in the context of a robot fight

[@fagocol98]

Wrong type of control

[@dravendfr]

It should’ve been counted out the moment the match started because there was absolutely 0 controlled movement.

[@Zander2212]

They couldn't just count them out because that's the only way they move. They literally vibrate to shake some bristles and move. That concept shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but once the design is approved they can't just count them out every match.

[@coreytaggart128]

@@Zander2212 New criteria to add toss a cone down in the middle before the match starts they drive out of their corner around the cone and back to their corner. Should be a simple test maybe give them 30-60 seconds to do it, if they can't they have no control.

[@emp100k]

Can that "brush drive" really be called controlled translational movement? Depth Charge was basically just moving in random circles...

[@norsehawk]

Droopy in the 3lb class I think has a similar movement but it has 2 blades that they cycle to actually make it 'walk' across the arena slowly and meanacingly. The fact that droopy can control its movement means to me that it's a 'real' contender, rather than an arena hazard.

[@krikeydial3430]

I'm going to enter an electric lawnmower and flip it up side down. Depth Charge is stupid.

[@Godsoldiergaming]

I say if your gonna enter you have to through a series of test of can your bot go forwards without going in any other direction and then repeating that for all directions like dc had as much controlability as a vibrating phone

[@leopardbunny]

​@@Godsoldiergaming_Some_ randomness would be okay, as long as there's still a clear general path at a reasonable speed. DC does not fit that description, it's all over the place, and only _vaguely_ "controllable".

[@UmbreonMessiah]

So the terrifying thing is: yes it can. The design allows the driver to control which direction Depth Charge turns/shuffles based on the speed of the weapon. ...even more terrifyingly: once Depth Charge's weapon reaches a certain speed, *it can only turn left.*

[@sandyo1063]

That Death Charge robot is awesome. I laughed at how scary and intimating it was. I was amazed how afraid James was of fighting it, then how brilliant James was of finding a way to get Death Charge to destroy itself.

[@JonatasAdoM]

Yes, that ending was cinematic. James winning the fight without even needing a weapon.

[@sandyo1063]

@@JonatasAdoM Haha.... I love robot fights.

[@chimyshark]

@@JonatasAdoM wish he actually won though, fk the judges.

[@gregdunn401]

how afraid james was?? thats called tactics they were waiting for an opening, what you are saying is similar to saying a police officer is a coward if they use a gun against a criminal with a gun, the police should just run at them barehanded and unarmed

[@Ambipie]

Oh it didn't harm Depth that's why it won

[@rmhartman]

From what I have seen, Depth Charge is not capable of directed movement.

[@ramz3556]

No wheels

[@HiltownJoe]

@@ramz3556 if the bristle walk would work like intended there would be no need for wheels. sadly it does not.

[@phantomgaming7544]

@@HiltownJoe they have control of the weapon speed so they could slow it down to move forward for the bristle walk, DC has as much control as James even where wheels aren't there, you even hear the speed of the weapons change based on the way the bot moves

[@tysonnm5034]

its bristle drive does give it movement, and it can use reaction torque to turn. because of this, it has enough control to qualify.

[@leopardbunny]

​@@tysonnm5034Enough control to qualify should not equal 5 points worth of control.

[@MJM17]

“Amazing! Look at the audience, everyone’s still alive…” Spoken like someone expecting a monumental increase in their insurance premium 😂

[@TheCulturedMan34]

Depth Charge lost that outright. Sure wins flashy flashy weapon but no poor decision

[@TheRattleSnake3145]

Apparently, the judges watched a completely different fight than we did.

[@UmbreonMessiah]

...did they? James' buddy *touched* Depth Charge and was instantly annihilated. James spent the next 1m30s jittering back and forth while Depth Charge kept advancing. James pushed Depth Charge twice while taking massive damage and then *the wall was violently blown out.*

[@natehill8069]

@@UmbreonMessiah ....yet James still worked and DC was dead. So James survived the damage and DC was killed by damage.

[@CloudEcho]

@@UmbreonMessiah "kept advancing" lmao completely delusional.

[@patronofsaints2062]

@@natehill8069 Match ended the instant that the glass broke. DC was still functional at that time so...

[@donovanmahan2901]

If the fight hadn't been stopped early due to the inner panel breaking that would have been a KO on Depth Charge.

[@leopardbunny]

I say it should've been a KO the moment Depth Charge hit the wall.

[@OMEGA_3541]

​@@leopardbunny depth charge was confirmed completely functional even after the hit. If he hadn't broken the wall the fight would've continued, no ko.

[@miniroo612]

I've never watched Robot Battles and can EASILY say WITHOUT A DOUBT that James should've won there. Amazing timing on James to get Depth Charge off axel and plow it straight into the barriers.

[@volodymyr_budii]

Rules are rules, and unlike James, DC didn't have a failure of one of its system from the very start and works as intended. Also, it does move controllably when it gets to stable RPM of its blade, just very slowly.

[@ohauss]

@@volodymyr_budii As in DC critically depends on being allowed to damage the arena. And if it moves controllably, it certainly doesn't move very far. It mostly spun in place.

[@volodymyr_budii]

@ohauss ? You can literally see it slowly moving towards James all the time. It is definitely controllable and predictable when it gets to right stable RPM and untill it hits something

[@leopardbunny]

​@@volodymyr_budii"Controllably" is apparently very subjective.

[@leopardbunny]

Sure, it moves vaguely forward, but the rest of its movement is haphazard. It has a massive weapon that it can't reliably direct, nor can it spin fast enough to prevent being flipped from any direction other than the front.

[@wormybobcat3706]

This wasn’t a fight, this was a bomb defusal.

[@funforall9741]

Depth charge didn't deserve a win for being scary, the other bot outdrove them by a mile

[@legoferrari14]

Honestly, if a robot does significant enough damage to the arena that the safety of spectators, teams and/or floor crew are compromised, then that robot should automatically be disqualified on safety grounds.

[@chpsilva]

​@@legoferrari14 aggravated by the fact that, according the judges and some people in the comments, DC's pilot had control over the robot, therefore the damage can be considered intentional.

[@Ambipie]

Any robot can drive. To survive a blow into the safety barricade and not be harmed and instead be the danger meant James was powerless

[@Ambipie]

​@@chpsilvaJames rammed him in the back. James lost for not being able to hurt his adversary

[@chpsilva]

@@Ambipie Irrelevant. We are discussing about intentional damage to the arena by DC.

[@teamgetwreckedcombatrobots776]

Deep Six would be proud.

[@jaymorrison2419]

Yeah, Im not at all versed in the rules, but Depth Charge showed no ability to move reliably, and other then acing the nanobot, didn't DO anything other then get tossed 20 feet in the air.

[@revoblam7975]

Please re-watch, Depth Charge dealt multiple bouts of damage and disabled Knockoff White's weapons merely by spinning a fucking dual saw around really fast, if you pay close attention, the pilot is ensuring James has no safe way to attack Depth Charge, he deserves control solely for how effective he was at Being threatening by using a limited movement set up (brush plus rotational speed)

[@revoblam7975]

Janes still did really well to handle such a threatening force of destruction though! Taking the hit to lodge the bastard into the wall was a brilliant way to disable him, but DC was so powerful it broke the wall and the match was stopped the moment the integrity of the wall was breached, safety ironically was his downfall here

[@rayzuke1232]

@@revoblam7975 I like to see Depth Charge vs a Traffic cone. Im sure that will be a fight for the ages after the first blow is dealt after 3 seconds against the floor and maybe after 2 minutes Depth Charge even hits the Traffic cone.

[@lyndsaypeters5981]

@@rayzuke1232 wow such entertainment

[@JerehmiaBoaz]

@@rayzuke1232 Nah DC will speed up or slow down its weapon until it's aimed at the traffic cone and expect the cone to come charging in.

[@zkeletonz001]

The judges scored this like it was a design competition and forgot that its about the fight.

[@morphingninja]

There were 3 bots in the arena, James' mini-bot got clobbered, James took a hit, and DC probably was put into an emergency stop when the arena barrier took unassessed serious damage. (If the blades were still rotating at their full speed while the integrity of the arena was in question, that would be a major safety hazard, especially if the blades took any structural damage) it sounds like DC was still operational, but the match was ended without an actual finisher or timer, due to safety concerns.

[@ToastyMozart]

It's not even a good design, Depth Charge had next to zero intentional mobility and was so unstable it kept tossing itself around like a ragdoll.

[@Leto_0]

Lol DC is a joke design. They obviously scored it based on the fact that DC was the cause of every bit of damage that happened, except for James falling apart on its own...

[@williamscoggin1509]

The judge's decision win against everything I've ever seen up until this moment.

[@mrcryptozoic817]

Yeah, the judges are a fail by the standard of the BattleBot arena.

[@Team_Panoramic]

In all seriousness, WHY did this arena not have steel kick plates? It’s becoming a standard thing for robot arenas built to contain any weight division above American antweights for this exact reason. Kinda baffling how wood was used for the floor and side barriers, but a featherweight arena in this day and age of robot combat seriously needs steel kick plates!

[@richardhanck972]

I'd have to say, wood is a _lot_ cheaper and easier to source, place, maintain, and _replace_ than steel is. The kind of steel you'd need to withstand a hit from Depth Charge? Heavy and expensive as all hell. You'd need a forklift to carry a single panel of the floor, smaller panels to keep the individual weight manageable, and custom fabrication. That isn't to say there isn't steel _backing_ the wood. But since it's unlikely that steel is going to take a direct hit, it's not engineered to take the direct hit. Also, wood is more graphic when it gets hit, easier to replace in a hurry, cheaper to source locally, and safer for the Bots. A hit like at the start of Depth Charge's run on steel, potentially on a seam between plates? Big spark, Bot does the flippy flip, and then doesn't move because it broke itself.

[@creativeframework2068]

@@richardhanck972 A robot breaking itself is the Roboteers problem, not the EO's or the Marshalls or the Safety Team. If it can't survive fighting the arena it probably isn't going to survive its opponent. The UK FW arena has a 4mm Hardox floor welded onto a 50x100x3mm RHS Frame and each panel can be lifted by 2 people no issues. It has also lasted over 10 years. Think how much wood you go through every year and add that up over time. The UK Arena walls are also steel, just 5mm mild, and while they take a pounding, they are replacable in less than a minute, and if they are stuck you can get them out with a crow bar in around 5 minutes. Yes, its nice being able to see right down the the arena floor, but its a disaster waiting to happen.

[@Team_Panoramic]

@@richardhanck972 Take it that you’re not a builder?

[@richardhanck972]

@@Team_Panoramic No. Not even that much of a fan, TBH. Basically, I know just enough to get myself into trouble. My thought is that the advantage of having an easily replaceable ablative surface on the interior of the actual safety measures is two-fold. One, it saves wear and tear on what you're actually relying on to contain the carnage. Two, it provides for an impressive visual for the crowd. Sure, you get nice sparks and loud noises from steel on steel, but seeing shreds of wood being flung across the arena, while seeing the gouge left behind in a high contrast scar is more interesting visually, at least to me. The wood surface, if constructed with this in mind, is a lot easier to replace on the fly if it's damaged than if something actually manages to compromise the steel, but it is also easier to damage, so theres a balancing act. The bit about being safer for the bots is not in the interest of making life harder or easier for the build teams or operators, but for making for a _more interesting match_ for the audience. If you have an arena surface that allows the combatants to swing and miss the opponent but hit the arena, without damaging themselves, there's more spectacle to be had. If your arena surface causes that missed hit to be potentially fatal to the combatant, then the operator is going to be a lot more hesitant to actually take that swing, and fights between heavy hitters devolve into who gets into position to deliver a guaranteed hit first. As long as what goes on in the box, _stays_ in the box, that's what's important, right? All I'm trying to say is there may be design considerations beyond simple safety and containment at work. Not that safety and containment should be ignored in favor of spectacle, but affordably enhancing the spectacle while maintaining safety should be the goal of whoever's designing and running the arena.

[@Team_Panoramic]

@@richardhanck972 Also, pretty much everything that Creative Framework has said. Having an arena and certain parts of the arena are made of the right steel is far more beneficial than having certain parts of the arena made of wood. In the case of using materials like Hardox, Armox or AR500 at the appropriate thicknesses, they will last longer for an arena and will see more fights than wood ever will. Constantly replacing wooden arena walls is not only more of a hassle but also increases more fight delays and is not ideal considering the amount of events that run in a limited time frame. Steel panels are also not that difficult to build up and replace if they for any given reason need to be, and could easily be carried by two people by hand without the need for any external tools. Let alone a bloody forklift.

[@cjevan9837]

Agility: 1 Speed: 1 Durability: 2 Attack: 10

[@weatheranddarkness]

Pretty sure it’s not attack if you just sit in your castle waiting to get hit.

[@krikeydial3430]

Uselessness: 10

[@Leto_0]

​@@weatheranddarkness pretty sure they were in a cage match and not a castle lol Being able to run away from your opponent does not mean you won the fight...

[@natehill8069]

Apparently DC put all their points in Charisma and the Judges were not immune...

[@huntzzio]

Okay, that hit was amazing, and I LOVE Depth Charge for its weapon, but how did James not win that? Explanation is below, but heres how I wouldve judged it: 4-1 Control (James), 2-3 Aggression (DC), 3-2 Damage (James), leaving by a 9-6 decision, James the winner. Control- both bots werent in great control of their robot it seemed, but James slammed DC into wall so james shouldve won that 4-1. Aggression- neither were really aggressive; you could either judge this with weaponry aggression (3-2, DC) or movement aggression (3-2, James). I personally think DC should win it (i think in battlebots they do weapon aggression) so thats 6-4 James so far. Damage-sure, James couldnt spin its weapon, but it is damage done to the opponent WITH WEAPON. Notice how I said opponent, not floor or wall. Notice how I said with weapon. Now, James didnt deal damage with weapon... so I guess its left to who came out of this better. James had a slightly impaired drive out of that hit, but DC was completely still. 3-2 James on damage. So anyway. I love Depth Charge but it should not have won. You could say DC hit with weapon, but... if you look at slow mo, it was only scraping James and it hit the wall, not James. So thats my reasoning. Still 3-2 Damage in favor of DC would also still makes sense. It would still have James win 8-7.

[@THE2SOURCE]

Not even close. Remember that the James team also had a minibot in the arena as well and that also counts when getting judged. When the minibot was destroyed, it gave DC a 5-0 in both aggression and damage and also Control because that bot was obliterated by the blades of DC. Now for James bot itself, it had no actual functioning weapon as you pointed out therefor aggression would be entirely in favor of DC, giving a real score of 4-1 since James did eventually push DC into the wall. Damage is very easy because James didn't do any damage to DC, in fact if you look at DC after the wall hit, it still looked like it took no external damage, nor did it take any real damage after it cut up the arena floor and side walls. James on the otherhand had part of it's frame damaged as well as the red plastic sheet was removed from the front. So real score for damage would be a 5-0 or at least 4-1. Control is the only thing that James really had for it. Right out of the gate when DC was getting into the middle by breaking everything else around it, James wasn't really moving. You pointed out that it had some mobility issues, but remember that DC moves by rotational force, so as long as that weapon is spinning, it will be moving. Control is probably be 1-4 in James favor is in total it would be either 8-6 or 9-5, Damage Control wins. Not to mention the little mini bot which was an easy 14-1.

[@OpenCarryUSMC]

I don’t know the rules used in battle it but in a real battlefield it doesn’t make a difference if the damage done to the enemy is with your own weapon or using their weapon and it’s flaws against them. In this contest James took advantage of its strength (maneuver and movement) to overcome the advantage of DCs weapon by exploiting its weakness, not being able to maneuver. That’s a win to James. Has no one involved in battlebots rule making and judging process read Sun Tzu?

[@captainnyet9855]

I think aggression should go to James, DT was just trying to stay in the center of the arena for most of the match hoping jams would just drive into his spinner for free; that isn't aggression, it's being defensive. (I'd argue DC is almost too slow to really be agressive at all; but I'd havr given it points there if it actually spent the entire match trying to approach James instead of trying to stick to the centre of the arena) But for damage I thing DC wins, if just by virtue of eiminating James' mini and james not being able to damage DC at all with it's own weapon. (due to the weapon failure) Personally I'd have called it a win by KO for James (assuming DC's spinner ws broken at the end, which would have completely killed it) and a points win for James otherwise. (5-1, 4-2, 1-4)

[@tomiwaaina5499]

I've disagreed with results before. But I usually see where they at coming from. Here I can't see how any one in their right minds could rule for death charge. Honestly an idiotic result

[@karlrovey]

Apparently they can't count out a damaged bot if the battle is stopped due to arena damage. In other words, Depth Charge would have lost had it not damaged the arena wall.

[@aboriani]

@@karlrovey then it should be ruled as no contest

[@ureyesrbleeding1]

@@karlrovey damn they should start rigging all bots up with little pneumatic hammers to crack the glass the moment they start to lose

[@dravendfr]

@@karlrovey Depth Charge was unable to move reliably on its own, was unable to correct itself once upright, and James smashed it into the wall. No contest, or James’ win.

[@ericcaldwell3584]

Alright judges... Please blow into the breathalyzer and let us have a piece of your hair for testing purposes.

[@tonytheofficer]

4:38 bro its blades are so strong and so fast, that the *force of the air blowing out of the sides* is cutting the floor. not even the metal blade itself, the fucking *WIND* was cutting through.

[@rainbowbutterflyfan]

There’s a jojo reference to be made here

[@towerofignis]

Thank you, Blendo, for raising the safety requirements of robot fights.

[@KTSTHofficial]

When you're a combat robot cage fighter, but it's your first day and you're under the impression that you must fight the cage.

[@LegendStormcrow]

James had ALL of the control.

[@inigomontoya860]

Terrible call by the judges. Depth Charge had precisely 0 control. It ended up in that spot in the middle of the ring because it bounced there. It didn't drive itself there. Bad, bad call.

[@volodymyr_budii]

DC moves really slowly, but it moves and it does it reliably when it gets its spinner to right RPM. Also, it isn't only about control of the bot, but the game itself. DC was holding control over the game since James was scared to attack almost the entire game and was in defensive running away. And unlike James, DC did actually damage to the main bot and destroyed the mini-bot

[@Leto_0]

0 argument, just salt

[@azuquirtle]

The voices of two men who just saw the end of battle bot tournaments everywhere flash before their eyes in the form of a lawsuit

[@Variable-2-actual]

Yes, that happened before. It killed that one bot show.

[@thefiresworddragon927]

To put it simply for everyone; Depth Charge was moving by Centrifugal Force. He made speed physically move air to produce kinetic force to propell itself. That was enough to make it point towards the ground, and basic physics took hold with push at ridiculous jewels of energy, causing the launches. Getting pinned directly to the wall at that speed, Depth Charge probably hitting the cage about 10 or so times before he finally got flung up into the air in that instant of impact.

[@tahrey]

These battles really need someone with a slow-motion / HFR camera covering them, at least when robots with rapidly spinning weapons or powerful flippers / projectile launchers are involved.

[@annai2318]

Depth charge wins the intimidation and damage battle, nothing else in my opinion (other than being scary as hell for multiple reasons). This wasn't a good fight for the record, but James deserved to win. Also... I'm watching this over and over for some reason but i think that the drivers are trading remotes at 1:00... do they have a separate remote controlling the weapon or something? maybe this is what went wrong with the drive

[@Alucard0715]

Shouldn't even get much for damage. It never did any serious damage to James and in the end, being force into the wall killed it.

[@annai2318]

@@Alucard0715 I don't know what kind of material Northwestern is using for that wedge but it looks like it got bent or torn in the first hit. After that though, James either got really lucky or had good driving because it came away looking totally unscathed! Seriously impressive stuff, and that machined frame looks pretty cool! Not sure if it flexed to absorb the impact? Also idk if that plastic on the front does anything, but it looks dope in the slowmo footage For the record though, this was not a great fight (though it's an absolute legend), James didn't have a weapon; Depth Charge could barely move translationally, and was only notable because it hit so hard. I saw that NURC was going to be at the next competition this weekend, hoping that James gets his revenge

[@helmholtzthemulewatson4763]

Is he getting points for damaging himself or the wall?

[@volodymyr_budii]

@@Alucard0715 You forgot about mini-bot that was destroyed. It did damage, unlike James. I don't even think that DC was knocked out after the cage broke, because you can only know that after the battle, since DC had to stop its weapon the moment the cage was broken, and his spinner was his movement.

[@achimsinn6189]

Depth Charge was leading in damage, but not in aggresion as it was sitting in place for most of the match waiting for James to come in and run into that spinner and DEFINITLY not in control as it did not show any controlled movement and as it was dealing more damage to the floor and plexiglass than to its opponent.

[@jessemitchem3880]

The fact that they won without a working weapon was AMAZING. DEPTH CHARGE LOST. Judges stole it. Depth charge wasn't even able to last 3 minutes against James.

[@Ambipie]

they merely switched off both because when the glass breaks shit could fly

[@volodymyr_budii]

Huh? DC was not knocked out, it was still working after the hit. The thing is, after the cage was broken, you are supposed to stop all your weapons, and the weapon of DC is the movement tool, so you couldn't see it move after. DC was still working, and Jame's mini-bot was not.

[@tysonnm5034]

depth charge was still functional, the match ceased because major damage was inflicted upon the box and would have been unsafe to coninue.

[@Leto_0]

😂 James literally was broken when the match started and all it was able to do was push DC a couple times. DC landed two massive hits with it's main weapon, and controlled the center of the ring the entire time.

[@AFT3RDAY5]

And there you have it: power is nothing without control 😂👍🏻

[@moshunit96]

Wish the judges felt that way.

[@Damndrrtyapes]

That was the slogan for a tire commercial several years ago 😊

[@miafillene4396]

You are wise, Padawan.

[@Leto_0]

And control is nothing without power, wow so deep

[@jamesroseii]

James was robbed.

[@mikereyes2488]

I see this results being like if a boxer or MMA fighter knocks out opponent and loses because he wasn't muscular and intimidating enough.... 🤦‍♂️

[@volodymyr_budii]

But that's the thing, DC was not KO, it was still working, its weapon just had to be turned off because of cage being broke, and since the spinner is its movement, it couldn't move after.

[@Chpow01]

Depth Charge should have been DQd the second it was unable to maintain control upon starting. There is no reason it should have been allowed to continue... Even at the end, the gyroscopic effect is keeping it upright, it would not have fallen over till the rpms dropped, which means it would have to turn off it's blades, then start up again, after being thrown even further out of balance....

[@volodymyr_budii]

It uses brushes and vibration to move, and it does it reliably and controllably. It doesn't matter that it is so slow, because it is still controlable.

[@dana.7500]

So the 2 judges choose DC as the winner? It's like choosing the swordsman as the winner over Indiana Jones.

[@kenzo_1172]

noone is gonna talk about the gyrocospic stabilization generated by the wepon at 2:22?

[@nuyabuisness7526]

The fact that Depth Charge won is a joke. It's clear to literally everyone that isn't a judge which bot survived the round. It's like watching an MMA fighter get tombstone pilediven into the floor in the last second then giving it to that guy because he had some good area control with his jabs early in the fight.

[@svartmetall]

"Look at the audience...everyone's still alive!" That may be one of the greatest sentences ever uttered :D

[@----.__]

So according to the judges, if I just throw a grenade in to the cage I win the battle? How is that any different to a mindless spinning blade? Ridiculous decision.

[@thewinterprince1731]

Depth Charge lived up to its name: It exploded.

[@rad6007]

That was an impressive finish for James. I feel like the judges were manipulated to punish James for the destruction of the arena. *OR* they're just tired of seeing that style of battlebot and wanted to push something new for future episodes

[@elianas1121]

lol the destruction was at least as much depth charge’s fault as it was James’s.

[@journeymanic9605]

This was a David V Goliath situation in which James, our David, out manuveaured and out thought his opponent. Depth Charge is terrifying, but James was patient and tactical. James should have won the fight. A patient man will act, a coward refuses. James was patient and capitalize. Excellent piloting from his controller.

[@BYERE]

It’s the fact that Depth Charge’s blades weren’t even close to the floor when James was pushing it towards the wall, and it was STILL scoring into the flooring! That is a VERY dangerous feature! No wonder the inner panel shattered

[@KolMan2000]

Seeing a mini-bot just get deleted from existence was hilarious

[@gunraptor]

Depth Charge doesn't even qualify as a robot...it's more like a semi-static box hazard. James got robbed here.

[@ToastyMozart]

It's the kinetic equivalent to a land mine.

[@volodymyr_budii]

It has controlled movement, just really slow

[@drewlovelyhell4892]

To be fair, none of the machines in this show qualify as robots, as they are controlled by human operators, not a CPU. They're R.O.Vs.

[@DioDCynic]

That was amazing, the underdog won and destroyed the arena. Basically mecha anime in real life.

[@DioDCynic]

I know the judges did not grant an official victory to James. But we all just saw what happened there.

[@ImpPoster]

James was the real bot. Depth was just a safty hazard.

[@TheFoxfiend]

I would give James the point in control, and possibly in aggression too. Depth charge had the power, absolutely, but it had no maneuverability and had to rely on the opponent coming in for an attack. Yeah, one wrong move and James would have been eviscerated, but James managed to out maneuver, setup, and charge Depth Charge into the side of the cage. And to top it off, James was still standing after. Also, holy frick, the damage to the cage was insane, I'm glad there were two panels there.

[@Living_Murphys_Law]

Tombstone would be proud. It has actually destroyed more box than Deep 6, having destroyed the floor (Minotaur), walls (numerous fights), corners (Tantrum), killsaws (Gruff), spike strip (Rotator), and nearly ceiling (Jackpot).

[@pinkchckn]

minotaur destroyed the floor?

[@Living_Murphys_Law]

@@pinkchckn Yes. Tombstone vs Minotaur is possibly what led to all the floor problems in Season 4.

[@pinkchckn]

@@Living_Murphys_Law are you sure it wasn't Tombstone that destroyed? A vertical drum does not seem like it could open gashes on flat panels like a horizontal bar. Minotaur has destroyed a couple lamps by throwing pieces of bots on them though.

[@Living_Murphys_Law]

@@pinkchckn Well, it might not have been Minotaur itself, the parentheses mark which fight Tombstone destroyed that section of the arena in. I agree that Tombstone was likely to gave done most of the floor damage there, yes.

[@pinkchckn]

@@Living_Murphys_Law oh, I understand what you mean now, don't mind me lol

[@kevinj9059]

Wait Depth Charge WON?!?! TF? Are the judges high? It did more damage to the floor that the other robot. And how can you be aggressive when all you do is spin in a circle...

[@natehill8069]

I think I will build a fighting robot using an electric fence.

[@hannahchristine5240]

How did the judges side for Death Charge on this? James was cheated out of a victory, especially since they gave control points to Death Charge. Like, come on now.

[@elistover]

DC 0: control 0: aggression 5: damage Even if DC could move faster, james still would have had more control if he just moved away. DC had no control over the situation. If it had controlled it wouldn't have been CONTROLLED. honestly people never cease to amaze me with how absolutely stupid they can be!

[@dr.toxicgamingmadscientist]

Imagine if Depth Charge did THAT in Batltebots during the actual tournament, never coming back to that tournament next season lol

[@JonatasAdoM]

It would be considered incapable of moving or showing aggression the moment the battle started.

[@Aethelia]

@@JonatasAdoM That should be true, but BattleBots has been annoyingly inconsistent about enforcing the controlled movement rule.

[@JeffJackowski]

With 34 seconds left in the match, Depth Charge stopped moving. How was it not considered knocked out?

[@ConstantlyDamaged]

They called a halt because the box was unsafe, I believe.

[@RennieAsh]

Yep match instantly paused due to safety hazard, so goes to the judges and I guess they found that DC dealt more damage due to the minibot, james not attacking for extended period, and the fact that the judges probably wanted to see moar Depth Charge

[@ConstantlyDamaged]

@@RennieAsh The box builders, on the other hand, could have done without moar Depth Charge. :D

[@JeffJackowski]

@@ConstantlyDamaged,​ @Rennie Ash, I didn't know they ended matches for box damage. I was hoping it would be a pause, but maybe it is a scheduling issue to have such a long pause?

[@JonatasAdoM]

@@RennieAsh The only reason depth managed to damage James was because James got closer to actually engage in the combat.

[@Wanderer_of_Sol]

James should have won. I'm not even going to elaborate, there's 600 other comments saying what I would also say.

[@andrewwang8204]

Depth charge is the equivalent of throwing a live grenade in the box

[@gniawd]

Total Bullshit Loss for James To use HIS ENEMY'S OWN WEAPON AGAINST HIM. IT was absolutely Legendary he had no weapon of his own and so his only way to win was to use the area to take depth charge out. He waited for the right moment and put DC position after position where it couldn't hit him. I was interested in this show until I saw that Ive seen robot wars and other shit but man. How could they rule that way just like WTF.

[@cooltiger2439]

I think the issue is that by say battlebot standards a fighter like depth charge might not have even been allowed to compete. As a lot of people point it out it dosent really have any controled movement or at least not enought to go on the offensive. Its like a landmine, ya if you touch it youll get blown up but ya still have to choose to touch it. Also when all was said n done , james was still moving , dc wasnt.

[@vibhanshuchaudhari7784]

3:38 everyone still alive 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@katiebarber407]

they need to get rid of the weight bonus for no wheels. no wheels is ALREADY a weight bonus in and of itself. such an OP rule

[@mech-x-xavious]

This is why we need the crab walking rules in Battlebots, we don't need 2 minutes of one bot turning in circles

[@blastingsound]

the Vindication felt by whoever suggested Double Plating the Windows, must feel unreal lol

[@yak3868]

This thing is just a 45 pound version of "they can't predict what I'm doing if I don't know what I'm doing"

[@esotericcommonsense6366]

Every sport has those terrible calls😂 James doesn't hold the L, the judges do.

[@42grath]

Not going to lie, I see someone breaks a box I thought it was going to be one of the Sunny Robotics Gyro Walkers 😂

[@taterthepenguin]

Let's be real. The judges decided on a winner before the match was over, and they weren't gonna let the reality of the match change their minds.

[@orisamain1920]

💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 1:31 that little dude got DELETED.

[@lil-j-waters]

DC: 3AG, 3DAM, 2CTRL JAMES: 2AG, 2DAM, 5CTRL James wins 9-8 in my headcanon

[@MoA-Reload...]

Wut?! Very impressive weapon on Depth Charge especially considering it's size but it's obvious the builder got it at the cost of pretty much all control and ability to do more than turn on the spot. James was the one in control of that fight. They were the one that chose when to go. They were the ones that got around the rear and managed to get a handle on it's opponent while mitigating the damage it would take and they were the ones that came up with the solution of wtf to do with it. Slam it into the side of the box and get it to kill itself... Which they succeeded in pulling off and judges really went "ooo, big spinney weapon fun. We vote dat one" ? 😂

[@volodymyr_budii]

It didn't kill itself. It was still functional after, but the fight had to stop. It took a lot of work and skill to actually try and do something for James. DC could have just stopped its blade and James would be unable to do anything, when DC could do something(and did like killing the mini-bot), even if not reliably. Everything is right with the rules.

[@Tmccreight25Gaming]

There is nothing more terrifying than MASSIVE kinetic spinners. Apex in Robot Wars, Hellachopper, Deep Six and Triton in Battlebots and Depth Charge in NHRL. Simply terrifying to watch.

[@brido193]

How on earth did Depth Charge win this? Absolute farce imo.

[@electroninja7419]

I’m sorry. If anything, James broke the arena. Pushing a clearly uncontrollable saw (not a robot) into the arena wall shattering that as well as disabling the bot.

[@noviranger88]

James's GF: Babe, come over! James: But I'm destroying a robot. James's GF: My parents aren't home... James: 2:30

[@ajabacan1886]

depth charge is very amazing and can destroy it's opponents. very sophisticated fight and well built robot

[@marcuscoquer5958]

This video has led to me watching everything NHRL I can find, even following the live streams. Amazing series and I love the commentary (even thumb wars).

[@miguelmont.1111]

I just love that after 2 years the conversation of James V. Depth Charge is still heated from movement points to who did actually won

[@zacm-m]

The judges are so wrong for this, depth charge offered nothing the entire battle. No controlled movement the only damage they did was to a mini bot. James on the other hand with no weapon found a way to take control and even used depth charges weapon against them. This is arguably one of the stupidest judge’s decisions I’ve seen.

[@TRquiet]

James won this fight by TKO. It knocked out the other bot (with its own weapon!) by way of superb control.

[@kevbrown2532]

No control, no aggression, did little damage to opponent, Depth Charge met none of the requirements for winning that contest other than spectacularly damaging the arena, being entertaining and controversial. Thats TV production for you.

[@DrewMartinez-x1r]

Wow! These judges are like Pokemon judges these days. They identify as judges but we know.

[@dm9910]

Absolutely awful judge call. It should have gotten a zero for aggression, given that all it did was just sit there spinning, it never moved towards its opponent - James initiated every bit of contact. It should have gotten zero for control, it was alternating between bouncing around the arena at random or just sitting there unable to move properly, and at the end it looked completely non-functional, while James was completely in control the entire time and still operating perfectly at the end. And it barely actually damaged its opponent, while it blew itself to bits.