Creating Rounded Characters (with Lou Wilson)

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Lou Wilson joins Brennan for Fantasy High secrets, first-time DM fails, and tips for scary villains.
D20 is a series from CollegeHumor and DROPOUT.TV, created and DM'd by Brennan Lee Mulligan. It includes includes Fantasy High, Escape from the Bloodkeep and The Unsleeping City.
#collegehumor
#dropout
#BrennanLeeMulligan
#dnd

[@duncant6364]

I feel like both Lou and Brennan have dad vibes, but deeply different ones. Like Lou is a cool dad who maybe is/was in a band, and Brennan is the human incarnation of the phrase, “Hey Kiddo”

[@aduckinlingerie]

The fact that he says that a lot when role playing friendly adults

[@rydertheashen1722]

i thought i read BAD vibes, i was about to get in the comments. Oh fuck, i am in the comments

[@myeahonline]

Or his favorite line “Hey bud”

[@freebanana27]

@Reed Sylas shuuuuuuuuuut up

[@Chewchewman]

Until he speaks with a Scottish accent

[@timstabletoptime6708]

"If you get a brand new toy for your kid and they play with the box, that's still a successful gift." Awesome metaphor for nearly every dnd game ever

[@justiceiro47]

cat owner : *gives cat a new toy* cat: *sees the box in which the toy came in* cat: It´s free real state

[@DeathnoteBB]

It may be a successful gift but it could have been way cheaper

[@snowleopard064]

Timestamp?

[@timstabletoptime6708]

@@snowleopard064 46:21

[@daniellejohnston8936]

I used this quote today!!!! Parents complaining about their young kids enjoying the boxes and ignoring the toys. I got a good laugh and everyone got over it.

[@tjknight]

Lou calling Riz Gugack "Riz Gugack" instead of "The Ball" is like being transported to the fucking twilight zone

[@TAP7a]

"Wait, who's Riz Gukgak?"

[@Quocalimar]

@@TAP7a the ball

[@dantereghelin4951]

@@Quocalimar I think he means that it’s spelled Riz guckgack or something (there’s a k or a c in there somewhere)

[@Quocalimar]

@@dantereghelin4951 I know, I was also making the joke that he's the ball

[@princesstoni8116]

@@dantereghelin4951 it's cause there is a joke that fabian doesn't know riz's actual name

[@bananaboatcharlie]

31:31 "I don't think any of the villains have ever scared you..." *You should not say such hurtful things about your romaence partnaer*

[@voltcorp]

also clearly Lou was absolutely tilted by the fires at the homes before the last battle in Fantasy High season 1 that was a scary villainous situation exactly because they couldn't just shit talk it, much like the canyon example

[@bronaghmachaulaige6865]

Chungledown Bim definitely scarred Lou a LITTLE

[@PureGoldNeverCorrodes]

Sexy Rat.

[@lenkamachova8497]

@@PureGoldNeverCorrodes oh gods, not the sexy rat

[@milanthurman]

@@PureGoldNeverCorrodes Nightmare material right there

[@QuestionableKenz]

Talking about player choices, it reminds me of a hitchhikers guide to the galaxy quote "the thing about designing something to be foolproof, people severely underestimate the power of fools"

[@uhkingdom]

I wish I could save this post and frame it one my wall. It’s so true. I’m most recently a DM but I was a shit player before this and goddamn was I a fool, but I was a passionate fool. Players want to live their fantasy, not be unduly robbed of their achievements but also reach a point of heroism that makes the game worth it. It makes them try insane and ridiculous things, and sometimes makes them very reserved and unsure of themselves. Both of these mindsets can severely truncate the pacing of the adventure the DM had planned in both swings of the pendulum. So the best advice ever is either be good at thinking on your feet already or learn how to do it, because you’ll always need it.

[@elliejelly8815]

I have a very loose outline that can still unfold even if my players fuck around, eventually somehow they will meet the main bad guy and they will have to do something about it whatever they choose to do

[@tigergamer1133]

Just look at the internet

[@stevbe1723]

"If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot"

[@foxandcrow4930]

This quote is originally from Engineer Murphy, who also is the source of “Murthy’s Law.” The man was trying to make fighter planes in WWI- which means for pilots who have never flown before. 😂 It totally makes sense for Guide to the Galaxy to use that quote. He used the best quotes from the best people.

[@Darleer]

Buy a module -> break it a part -> build it back up with your PCs' motivation and backstory is a VERY GOOD way to start for any GM

[@miae5358]

This is an awesome piece of advice thank you so much!

[@Darleer]

@@miae5358 Glad you've found it helpful! I've been running games for 5-6 years now and I still do this because I just never really have the time to build completely from scratch

[@gooeybowser9332]

I wasn’t aware of thsi advice until I was already running a campaign, so I’ve sort of had to implement this mid campaign. My players haven’t complained yet so 😅…

[@MayBlaze0]

@atombrain111 agreed. I've been running CoS and taking advice from MandyMod has done me a world of good

[@nicholasfotou2980]

Im reminded of the saying that says all good artists copy.

[@timm.8327]

"D&D is a game about gambling... You are gambling with story, and the stakes are characters..." this is one of the coolest perspectives I've heard on the game. awesome advice.

[@abcrasshadow9341]

39:00 ish for those interested.

[@kuno3336]

​@@abcrasshadow9341 I saw this comment the moment I got to it in the video, lol

[@WarrenGenius]

"Bilby Buzzbeard" is that classic Brennan trope "if it starts with a B its just funnier"

[@WarrenGenius]

Belizabeth Bonathan (Chungle-down) Bimothy

[@daftpant5]

You all need to check out Brian Badonde

[@brendanwatroba8568]

"THE BIG BOOK OF BITS AND BOBBINS!?"

[@Crazhead89]

Here after Biggityburg, statement checks out. If you don’t know, watch the critical role gm roundtable with Matt, Aabria, and Brennan.

[@hotsauce-ud1by]

@@Crazhead89 that roundtable inspired me to come back and watch adventuring academy again!

[@frickedyfracs3652]

"Villians have never rattled you, Lou" *honey you've got a big storm comin*

[@Divineskulls1]

"Oiiiiim gunna sheet in yer mouth!"

[@sourpatchboy4340]

Sexy rat.

[@crimson2209]

@@sourpatchboy4340 sexy rat is not a villain she is the main protagonist

[@sardoniclysane]

Cherry Tomatoes

[@sammcguire3798]

Love how this can refer to both Bim and [REDACTED CHARACTER FROM CROWN OF CANDY]

[@SpasticLlama]

Brennan "They were being glib... And I took that personally" Lee Mulligan

[@ALeftyGoth]

When I was taking acting classes, my teacher introduced me to an idea called "The Three Entrances." The idea is that, anytime a character comes on stage, but especially the first time they come on stage, they've got 3 components of their entrance. 1) What happened to them that day/week/month in their life? 2) What happened right before they opened the door? 3) What is the first thing they want to do in this new space? I'm getting to a point in my gaming where, highly developed backstories are nice, but these are the 3 questions I really want my players to answer at the beginning of the campaign. It gives me the best look at what where they're coming from and what they're after now.

[@jadeyu7197]

this is such a great tip! thanks!

[@maxe159]

writing these down. Very nice questions to point discussion in the right way at the very least

[@ShameOwner]

Gonna have to steal these and give em a try.

[@AlisonChains13]

Bro THANK YOU

[@IrvingIV]

A warlock steps into the inn, his eyes sweep the room, locking first with the eyes of the uniformed woman behind the counter, second with the stairs, and third with your group. Muttering about being late for last month's meeting, he approaches the counter-

[@kikikyami]

I love how Brennan as a DM talks about the characters in his campaign as if they're little sprouts, or puppies. Like: get into DMing if you can truly commit! You have to water their talents, and train them and love them! Theyre your babies! And they must thrive! Its adorable :)

[@sdreaver816]

He seems like such an awesome DM

[@cwispygiraffe]

i saw an item called the "cape of monologuing" once, basically it keeps people from attacking you while you are monologuing before battle

[@predoarantes4641]

Cape of filibusting

[@MartinTraXAA]

Brennan: "You can't shit-talk a canyon!" Lou: *cracks knuckles*

[@TartarusHimself]

“You don’t narrate things the players don’t see” Aabria Iyengar has entered the chat

[@MichaelaBelle]

And she's so fuckin good at it too gaddamn

[@eliza6971]

One of my favorite characters to play was “the last halfling” bc my gm had created a world where they had all been wiped out and when I asked he said “if there were any left it would be the last halfling” and I said “that’s it, that’s her, she’s the last halfling. She’s a pickpocket who lives in disguise as a human child”

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

hell yeah

[@westkossuth]

If this were a book I'd read the fuck out of it.

[@julianauston9001]

"If the guards come and burn down my family's house" Meanwhile in Fantasy High...

[@garystern2294]

Lou's comments about 'oh do you go to the left side or the right, etc.' is definitely a trap I have seen DMs fall into. Running a module but not being able adjust on the fly or give it feeling beyond the text very much hurts immersion.

[@CorbiniteVids]

You're watching Adventure Call. My name is Falconhoof. And I will be your geide on your quest

[@Defiring]

@@CorbiniteVids Go west.

[@sazking6106]

@@CorbiniteVids kill jester

[@ShaneTaylor-wb7pi]

"Dnd is gambling, you are rolling dice, but what are you gambling with? You're gambling with stories" Brennan really pulled that out and suddenly my entire game philosophy just shivered

[@d3nku_]

Lou's hand movements give me life

[@hello_i_am_jacob]

13:04 flashbacks to when Emily almost derailed fantasy high within her first 5 minutes of playing

[@SeanLaMontagne]

Brennan gave us a masterclass in improv with that scene. Gilear showing up to the school and being like "oh you think I can't recognize my own daughter?" Was just *chefs kiss*

[@justinneal926]

The power of NPC deaths is insane. We have a campaign revolving around time travel and dimension hopping with past characters we’ve played as/encountered, and our guide through it was a major character from an earlier campaign we did. Halfway through the campaign, he sacrificed himself to save the rest of us and we were left to save the universe on our own. It broke us for a while....and we loved it 😅

[@bettsdn]

So much this: "You don't have to have been a DM for 20 years to be good. You can start DMing right now and be a great DM ~IF~ you make the focus of your DMing your player's enjoyment at the table"

[@pinkopia8420]

I'm training to be a therapist, and I have, multiple times in class, compared therapy to D&D (player/client driven, you can plan but you have to do so with the client/player in mind, learn to improvise and roll with punches) and when Brennan said that bit about empathically working with your player to help them realize a dream they didnt even knew they had? I wanted to cry. So beautiful, and genuinely human. Its the same with wish fulfillment. A lot of clients come to you just wanting answers, but it feels so much Better when you let them find those answers on their own than when you just give it to them. In another life, Brennan is a therapist. He has such emotional intelligence and such powerful and evident empathy for the people at his table. Its beautiful, truly

[@lelalu101]

I'm in grad school for counseling and I totally agree! I tell my fiance, who is a DM/GM and has run games for our friends for almost 10 years, that he runs group sessions for our peers' alter egos

[@kennyhearn5699]

Brennan does have a psychology degree at least.

[@lelalu101]

@@kennyhearn5699 I think hes got two different fine arts degrees? But he deeply understands people so either way he's ahead of many

[@gopherdays]

19:18 "If you try to please audiences, uncritically accepting their tastes, it can only mean that you have no respect for them" -Andrei Tarkovsky

[@mordirit8727]

I accidentally engaged my players too much on what was meant to be a small villain. The players were meant to come across this fresh crime scene (1 or 2 days old) of a family of dwarves brutally murdered on their way to a mission, and later realize it was their target who had done that. I didn't expect them to get excited with their new horses and basically run the poor animals to the ground by taking a full day of trotting across the plains, but I didn't want to cheat myself and say "oh it happened one day earlier!" so I improved them finding the house when the murderers were still there. They were welcomed into the house and spent the night. At that point, the dwarf family was still alive and well, and the killers were still searching the house for the thingamaguff they needed (long story short, the leader of the killers and the target of their mission was once a slave to this dwarf archeologist, and had been sold to another archeologist after his first owner retired from that to take over the family business, under his second owner he learned a powerful use of the artifact he and his last master had found and now he was back for it). There were _so_ many close calls, the worst highlight for me being the roll on random weather (which I kinda love doing) that turned the night into a thunderstorm... Knowing I'd pay for it later I described to the PCs who stayed awake how, at times, when the wind blew on the other face of the house, it almost sounded like distant screams. Yeah that was the whole family being murdered. The feeling of betrayal and hate they got for that dude has carried them so much that I took the time to extend the portion of the adventure. Now, 3 sessions later, they are finally about to enter his room after having dealt with all his lackeys and I am so excited for them to merc this lunatic Or for him to kill like half of them leaving the rest to run away and turning him into the official BBEG of the campaign, whatever the dice decide.

[@ghosty918]

That sounds amazing. A perfect response to player choice. I bet they'll tell stories of this guy for ages.

[@aaliyahadesida2815]

I absolutely adore the noises Lou makes between words.

[@rachel7121]

Flashback to when Griffin McElroy said he had to throw out an entire rescue arc because his family did well in the final showdown in The Suffering Game

[@DeathnoteBB]

Arms outstretched was an amazing scene

[@rodanandme]

Lou "Can i finally eat light bulbs?" Wilson

[@johnnykavanagh7684]

Brennan does something great that he does make his players earn stuff but he also lets them have and use awesome stuff, which is something some of the best DMs I’ve played with and I try to implement. Take Bill Seacaster as an example. Fabian gets to pull that card all the time and it adds to his personality and tool kit in social encounters. A lot of people are either afraid of or respect the clout his name carries and in sophomores Brennan turns some of that on its head in a cool way. A lot of DMs would be like “yea your dad is an infamous pirate” but then find a way to undermine or “depower” that and that SUCKS as a player. I have a character in a game now that is trying to get passage on a ship by spreading fake stories of his bounty hunting personas so he can get hired as a high tier bodyguard. My DM made me role some persuasion checks before our session 0 and I rolled well enough that some people know who I am, and I actually carry some clout. And that’s such a cool feeling as a player and adds so much to my story experience.

[@MariaDrozdova123]

sounds really cool

[@vinnm4516]

I love watching these two interact, but also I just really love watching two people who are real damn good at their craft give this tiny masterclass on extremely useful character writing. We absolutely love to see it.

[@Medbread]

That ending to Fantasy High was so beautiful

[@superthrowdown1]

Not seen any yet, is it worth a watch?

[@Medbread]

@@superthrowdown1 In my opinion, absolutely. I have a dropout subscription only for Fantasy High.

[@superthrowdown1]

@@Medbread good enough for me! I'll check it out

[@magicthegavining]

I’m on episode 6

[@holdendunlap3830]

Uhh I wish I could get dropout!!

[@asimplemoth5342]

36:20 One of the easiest ways I got my pcs to be scared of a bbeg was taking a previous foe that they barely survived fighting, and having the new guy kill him in one hit.

[@WiIIowisp]

I have no idea what bbeg means so my brain automatically filled it in as "big bad evil guy"

[@asimplemoth5342]

@@WiIIowisp lol that’s what it means

[@WiIIowisp]

@@asimplemoth5342 I can't believe this

[@WiIIowisp]

@@asimplemoth5342 I CANT BELIEVE I ACTUALLY GOT THAT RIGHT I JUST LOOKED IT UP

[@Butterfly1025A]

The Worf Effect lol

[@SailorDoom21]

Yo ok so I just got to the part where yall are talking about giving the players a reason to be unnerved and/or a reason to feel and Brennan gave that example of having an NPC that Emily’s character was close with be seen hanging when the party got back into town and how that shifted the game and rattled the players And all I can think about is still one of my favorite moments from still one of my favorite movies, like now especially as a writer myself, I’ll always turn to “Mulan” as like. The paragon of setting a tone and creating a diverse and distinct world (even though of course its based on a real place and a real time period). But the scene you guys made me think of was during “A Girl Worth Fighting For” and how the song itself doesn’t end, it cuts off as the soldiers come upon a village that the huns destroyed, the casualties of course aren’t shown but are obvious, Shang discovers his father’s death through finding his helmet, and suddenly the threat of the Huns as a force with real world impact is realized by both us and the soldiers. Like that’s when the movie stops being about “But Mulan is a girl, what if they find out? Ruh-roh!” And becomes about young people facing harsh truths right before their eyes, and Mulan sort of realizing that she’s brave enough to pull this act off, but now that she has she has to be able to actually do the work that comes with it. And that switch in mood makes it easier, later on, when she’s declared a hero and then shortly after has that discounted because she’s a woman, for that already horrible discrimination that I think we saw coming no matter what age the viewer is, to outrage us and make us take it seriously. We were shown the seriousness of the Big Bad, so the unjust punishment of the protagonist despite defeating the Big Bad hits harder. Idk. I’m rambling. All I’m saying is that the way tone shifts in DnD are utilitarian in many ways for the players and how they play like Brennan says, this one favorite scene of mine, which by the way would have been JUST as effective if it was described by a GM or even if only the audio was heard, just as they’re equally useful to the GM when it comes to shifting the story around to let its core themes shine, or even to take a core theme and exchange it for another so that in the end both can come together and reveal the story in its entirety. God. God I love storytelling bitch. Everything can mean anything to any part of everything.

[@SailorDoom21]

Addendum because Lou just mentioned the world moving along while the characters do: that was. Yeah that was my whole point in the comment above he just said it better whoops.

[@Beacuzz]

I love your example and why it works. One of the absolutely awesome things about analyzing stories is figuring out "why did that make me hurt? or happy? or angry? Why does a story that has the same basic start (ex girl hiding a guy) feel so different and make me react in a completely opposite way. Twelfth night (the Shakespeare play) has a similar set up (girl hiding as a guy and consequences if people find out) but because it has a different setting (war vs drama) and we get that moment of "oh shit this is real and people have died" the effect of the hiding and the reveal are different. (If I could think of a story that did the Mulan plot badly I would have used it but I tend to delete bad stories from my brain)

[@UnproductiveSunbeam]

I fucking love this comment. It's a great point, with a great example, and then top tier collapsing enthusiastic energy right at the end. Perfection.

[@PalleRasmussen]

The Banquet and the The Sun Tree is what made the audience and players of Critical Role understand that the stakes were upped now.

[@toplayDA_]

"Nearly 100% of people in your fantasy setting don't [hunt monsters]!" Me, sitting here, about to finish an arc about an entire nations population hunting a lich

[@benjaminoechsli1941]

You've found a unique tale to tell! Keep up the good work.

[@xlogophile]

That line about "you can't have a vampire show up and it automatically be scary" hits so close to home lol. In the campaign I'm in we met a vampire in the Doomvault and we're considering ways to get him to integrate into society in the city we liberated and one of the characters lowkey wants to adopt and/or have sex with him. There has already been some consensual blood drinking xD

[@Ardorstorm]

Vampires are sexy by default

[@emilysmith2965]

Considering that their sexuality was originally the thing that MADE them scary, ie they were a metaphor for the danger of becoming unmarriageable, yes. Of COURSE you have to work harder to make vampires scary in the 21st century.

[@jarrettkozelisky8334]

Love the idea of the world being alive and always still evolving while the party is off adventuring. I was running lost mines, and one of my characters decided to slip out while the others were sleeping to the bar where they knew the redbands (bad guys) would be and kill them for their clothes thinking he'd give it to the party and they could use it as disguises. He killed 5 of them and messed himself up in the process but they left the next morning to adventure another place. It was a taxing and grueling dungeon for them only to get back to town and find out that the actions of one character now has put the entire town at risk. The redbands went in and tortured and killed 6 townsfolk including 2 main NPC's searching for information on the group.. The person after the game called me and said OMG i fucking feel horrible i got women, kids and innocents killed because i really didn't think of the repercussion of my actions. It was kinda fun to see their faces and they got it.. Ok we might need to think a little before just going in and killing everything.

[@QuestionQuestionMark]

That amazing moment when the player's realize their actions have consequences and domino effects is amazing. I'm big on consequences, domino effects and rabbit holes of conspiracy so whenever my player's make a key action it actually sets things in motion, I've recently had to assure to them that the side quests they have to shelf in favor of their "main quest" or rather the quest that has the most urgency....that the side quests just don't simply disappear and that they evolve alongside the story even when they're not there to directly influence the events. An alive world can change the perspectives of fresh new player's who don't understand the weight of their actions.

[@Quocalimar]

That's like in The Unsleeping City where they had to put Pete in a position that would break him, so that he'd quit drugs.

[@OfficialPizza]

This happened to me in Curse of Strahd. The players killed a guy in a town who was a major enforcer and while they were hunkered down hiding, everything went to shit and without this character in the way, the ruling regime was overthrown and publicly executed. The look on their faces when they realized what they had done was priceless.

[@itme626]

29:53 Our DM had hyped up a powerful wizard for a few sessions and when we ran into them they tried to get us to leave by throwing a fireball at us. My first reaction was to cast control water and drown him while the party ate popcorn

[@CleverPsuedonym1]

I remember in 4th grade I saw the 5th grade string orchestra at my elementary school play a short little performance that our teachers made us watch, and I’m sure they sounded like 10 year olds, but I was enamored, and that moment altered the trajectory of my life towards the arc of musicianship, with the amount of time since then having fully eclipsed the entirety of my lifespan at the time, meaning I’ve now spent more of my life as a musician than not. Brennan and Matt Mercer and Jerry Holkins and all of their D&D groups were the orchestra that bent my life towards the arc of D&D.

[@AesirRev]

*PTSD Flashbacks when Brennan mentioned THAC0* Oh god why did you exist.

[@mordirit8727]

Meanwhile at the gaming session. New Player 1: we should order some food for the night, we'll be here for hours! New Player 2: what about pizza? NP1: nah we did that last session.. NP2: what about taco? Miffed older DM: NO! NP2: wait, why not... DM: I SAID NO!

[@davos6129]

About that last thing they talked about, the "give your characters a motivation to go on adventures": Old modules gave no hooks to go into the dungeon, there was no "they kidnapped the blacksmith's daughter", they just had an NPC mention there's a dungeon out there and it was assumed that the PCs would wanna go there. Why? Because it was bad design still somewhat stuck in the hack&slay mindset of the 70s, where the game was nothing but the dungeon? No, because it was designed with the assumption that the PCs, no matter what drives them, no matter their alignment, can all use gold and magic items. Your PC might be a righteous paladin who wants to free his homeland from an evil warlord, and my PC might be an evil wizard who wants to rule the world Sauron-style, but both of us can make use of gold and magic items and just in general the experience we get from going into these dungeons and fighting a wide variety of monsters.

[@foxfire7]

Been DMing for 25 years. I taught many people (3rd, 3.5, pathfinder, 4th, 5th and other games). and anyone who started DMing has always surprised me in a good way. Either by how their imagination mixed with the rules, their settings, their homebrew or just how they explain what you see. It's not perfect, but neither are my games or skills.

[@masonshucart7055]

I think Griffin McElroy is a huuuge example of not having to play 20 years to be a good DM. He is lax on the rules lawyering but the way he wove a story was amazing. Shout out to Brennan in a live setting too (not just edited episodes) I was there for the Dadlands live show and lived through the dadpocalypse.

[@f1lthy529]

Lou is the single most handsome man I have ever seen and I do not understand it. Keep your head up King.

[@DrFrankenMax]

Guys... Alphonse the skeleton? Are those... D O N K E Y B O N E S?????

[@turboqueer_]

31:31 If only Lou knew what was in store for him with Chungledown Bim.

[@cagedstowgee4991]

I always like to say “we” are telling a story. Myself and the players are telling a collective story, I’m just responding to what they choose to do.

[@lizabethb15]

Lou's laugh is INCREDIBLE and fills me with so much joy

[@BurtKocain]

34:33 I'm glad Brennan mentioned one of my fave games. Shadow of the Colossus has got great visual storytelling that a lot of TTRPG players would probably love.

[@Kindrick]

What I wanna know is, what do you do when one or more of the party members, or heck, even the entire adventuring party, decides, "Hey, the villain has a point. Let's help him." Do you just roll with your newfound party of villains or do you make the Big Bad even more puppy-kickingly evil?

[@kenshokram]

Well... What will be more fun? You may do either if you, that know the players and their characters, think they'll enjoy it. Maybe they are turned into anti-heroes? Maybe they think they are doing the right thing but the villain is hiding the more puppy-kickingly evil stuff hahaha Don't be afraid to support crazy ideas as long as all players will be having fun and getting their moment.

[@wayward-saint]

Roll with it. And by that I mean roll up an NPC party of adventures who follow the plan you envisioned and have them try to take the players + villain down.

[@IceMetalPunk]

I'd say roll with it. They want to help him? Great, now their party becomes hated by everyone who hated the Big Bad. Which means his enemies become their enemies. So now the new antagonist of the party is someone who might once have been an ally. Hell, if you find a way that it makes sense for an ally they had strong bonds with to turn against them as a result of their new path, that just adds to the pathos. Remember: there is no dichotomy between good and evil, it's all shades of gray, and the enemies of one person are just allies to another and vice-versa. Also keep in mind that understanding a villain's motivations doesn't mean you have to agree with their methods. Take Thanos in Infinity War as an example: he saw suffering, pain, and death as a result of overpopulation, and he wanted to prevent that for everyone else. That's a noble cause, and one I think most people would agree with. But then his plan of action for this quest was to wipe out half the universe. Not so noble. So the more your party works with the "villain", the more of their methods they'll see, and perhaps that will be a breaking point that will make the party go, "Wait, what? You're going to do this great thing HOW? Are you insane?!" and then turn on them again.

[@fawkes9718]

Just don't change the characterization of your villain. Your villain still has the same goals as he did before. If the players weren't fully aware of his motives and they are worse than they thought, they might change their minds. If not, let them join him and find a way to weave in a new conflict. Make sure the villain reacts to them authentically: he might delight in having new followers or he might rebuff them, remembering how they earlier thwarted one of his schemes. Maybe that's the new conflict, the player characters trying to convince their former enemy of their loyalty.

[@CorbiniteVids]

if you do it right you could probably start off by rolling with it and letting the party join the villain, then gradually pepper in darker actions in a way that the players might suspect they're being used, if you don't want to railroad your party but still don't love the idea of an evil pc party

[@emmaramirez4935]

I really want to hear about who had the idea/how the conversation went for Fabian giving the party gifts

[@auradmg]

I think Lou is extremely thoughtful and interested in his characters' development, like how he decides Fabian should respond to the Bad Thing that happened with Captain James in Sophomore Year.

[@cavemanbob82]

Just wanted to drop a note saying this video has provided the kick in the pants that I needed to go ahead and run my first game as a DM. Watching Fantasy High and The Unsleeping City just put me in the mood to game.

[@zerareota1560]

I feel like something to keep in mind when writing your story is that players actually find it very rewarding when they guess a big twist in the story. In one campaign I never finished I told a friend that the villain was actually this character who had been funding their adventures they said “I knew it!” And that kind of excitement is just as or more important to me than shocking your pc’s

[@MartinTraXAA]

Want to keep the villain being creepy\scary even if the PCs get a Tasha's Hideous Laughter in on him or something? Have the villain lean into the spells effects! The necromancer is interrupted during his unholy sacrament to become a lich by the bard casting Hideous Laughter. He pauses for a moment, before this guttural deep laugh begins rising but instead of fighting it seems like he almost enjoys it as his laugh start to become more maniacal and insane before turning into a low chuckle. They cast polymorph on the Illithid, turning him into a rabbit. His form trying to resist the spell is shown by the surface of the rabbit bulging and tearing at places, tiny tentacles pressing out from it's mouth, eyes and wounds as it tears and trashes against its new form in grotesque detail. I think Matt Mercer did a great job with the Witch and Jester. [SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR A GREAT MOMENT OF D&D] but the fact that the witch still seemed to understand **something** was off and still retained her 'deal-making malice' beneath the magically induced veneer of friendliness after Jester mindfucked her really made an amazing win still have that sense of "Oh this will ABSOLUTELY bite us in the ass later".

[@an8strengthkobold360]

Save one legendary resistance for that tasha's or vicious mockery.

[@youkorangu]

Another spell that can still make a villain more compelling- Ray of Sickness. Aelwyn wipes the vomit from her mouth, grits her teeth, and stares her sister down with demented older sister energy.

[@thewarriorofboros]

my favorite example is one time my players polymorphed the bbeg and he failed his his save so I ended up twisting it so that now that the physical form that was holding his magic inside, and it ended up manifesting in a bunch of weird spirit things, it was great

[@DurdleDers]

immediately wanna make a wizard named Bombeldo. 10:10

[@ColonelRPG]

Brenna and Lou, this is fantastic :)

[@sabahbubbler]

Who's Lou? That's Fabian Seacaster

[@sauteedbread]

gula-gula getah sabah Son of BILL Seacaster!!

[@nekrouni8497]

Fabian Seacaster? Son of BILL Seacaster?

[@emilysmith2965]

Fabian ARAMAEUS Seacaster

[@erox8091]

lou almost dying of laughter is so good

[@jscire__872]

Man, Calamity was one of the best D&D adventures I could imagine. The two are amazing

[@stevebuckley8650]

"Make your world feel like, people walk through doors, when you're not there." So inspiring.

[@invertin]

In my homebrew superhero campaign I have a favorite villain. He's Doctor Tormod Louise Blitzwolke, he's a brain in a jar using mind control helmets and robots, all of which he can talk through. He's not my favorite because he's the most creative or the one with the strongest personal connection to the PCs or anything else; he's my favorite because no matter what happens he will be allowed to get his monologue. Because he doesn't have to be there physically to fight you or speak to you, and he can do both at the same time. I have definitely run into the "this isn't a movie" problem a lot where I want my villains to have more of a back and forth, but I also know that if I introduce them too early, the villain will likely get clocked: and infact, one time, DID get clocked earlier than I had planned and that was just the end of her arc for a while. But not Blitzwolke! He can get away with anything. Easiest villain to write around, it rules.

[@dsfan2100]

Oh no don't watch past 19:00 mins in if you're not caught up on Dropout. They go into some things past episode 8.

[@flintmakesmusic6039]

Fun fact: that spoiler annoyed me so much that I decided to get Droput, just to be able to watch this podcast. and because I realised how much I love Fantasy High.

[@danielyorke5225]

I consider Brandon to by my DM sensei, too. One of the things I’ve learned from watching fantasy high and escape from the bloodkeep is not to take yourself quite so seriously; making funny and interesting characters with flaws makes the game so much more fun!

[@matthewdures]

HOOT GROWL!!!!

[@matthewletexier]

HOOT GROWL!!!!

[@timothyscott8430]

HOOT GROWL!!!!

[@nekrouni8497]

HOOT GROWL!!!!

[@spudsbuchlaw]

HOOT GROWL!!!!

[@QuackersClone]

HOOT GROWL!!!!

[@wisecrack3461]

35:35 I disagree, having an villain's introduction be "I'm a classic monster, very scary" sounds like the best possible introduction.

[@emilysmith2965]

🤷 depends on your players and what they want? If you’re all like “we’re parents, we work full-time, we want some nostalgia that fits in our busy lives” then totally. “Go in this dungeon and slay a dragon” works great. “Stop the cult ritual and break the amulet” works great. Whatever is positive for your group, is the best move.

[@ouroboros_1355]

Brennan that was beautiful, I wish more DM's were like you, I've never met a DM that doesn't have a story to tell... character motivation never matters in the games I've played... I always try to accomodate a lot of character motivation in the games I DM, but I've never met a DM that does this :c

[@emilysmith2965]

For every 4 or 5 players that haven’t met their DM, there’s a DM who hasn’t met their players… I hope you found them since first writing this comment. If not, know that we are still out there 🥺 we love you

[@20storiesunder]

Holy hell, I didn't even know these were a thing! And with Lou! His character is my favourite.

[@QuestionQuestionMark]

I view DM's as *a* storyteller instead of *the* storyteller, it's their place to tell the story in an engaging way.......but the other player's are also there to tell a great story with their own flare having their decisions drastically affect the story and how it can turn in accordance to what the DM puts in front of them or even what they go to find themselves. If you can get to and acquire perfect symphony of sorts where the story the DM is telling is fantastic and you have the player's react based on their character's to this environment you've made, then they go along and almost make the story for themselves doing actions based on what their character's would do. I've actually had a player get angry at me for adding things to a module (I later found out he was meta-gaming), but you just simply have to do it....modules a lot of the time are......barebones by design it's there to be a playground for a DM's imagination not a definite cage of rules etc. I do think there needs to be a bit of agency with the DM and the player's that he will lead their stories in a cool direction, because a player coming along and decided where there story ends undermines how they get there. Because they know, if their entire journey is going to be orchestrated that heavily then they should've just went and wrote a book.

[@hannuback]

This was good, because I'm setting up a game for next week and I will take these advices. I finally managed to realize that if I want a game, I have to create it and be the DM. Last time I played was probably in the last millennium and back then I wasn't a very good DM, but I have thought about doing it again for a long, long time and this time around I'm more prepared. Just so happens that when I started talking about roleplaying again, turns out I have friends who were looking for a game and then there is this one inexperienced group that has already been dipping their toes in the water and could use someone more experienced in the group. Now we fused together and have a positive problem as the group is big and we will probably set up two different games, as we have another DM too. So once a month is a game night and once a month we paint miniatures :D we already started painting last week and it was fun! I think this is going to be great! :)

[@CCartman69]

Congrats! Wish you the best of luck for you game. Brennan and Lou have good advice in this video, but if you are looking for more information about a specific topic, I cannot recommend the KZbin channel "How To Be A Great GM" highly enough. They've got years of videos on all kinds of DnD topics and have just started a new series about how to make a campaign from scratch. Plenty of stuff to work with. Regardless, happy gaming!

[@VBadBaboon]

I'm struggling with my players not connecting with each other. It's been 3 years, and it still feels like each character is out for their own goals. One character is out for these infinity stone-esque gems, one wants to build magic items like Tony Stark, one wants to bring a loved one back. I love all of these, but aside from some exceptions the general vibe I'm getting from the table is "I'm here to play my character, I just happen to be with these other guys or whatever". I've tried tying their goals together to promote a sense of teamwork but I still feel these barriers present at the table. It's hard, but this podcast helps.

[@Quocalimar]

If you've ever played an MMO, you'll know some players are just this way. In fact I'm this way. I had a league in DcUO and I had fun doing league missions, but when I went off alone to do group missions with randos, I would just stick heavily to my objective and role. I think if you try upping the roleplay, and casual interactions of the characters (outside of main battle) you might start seeing some more connection.

[@emilysmith2965]

If you have a session where you’re creating characters and setting elements TOGETHER, a lot of that disappears. People still want their own stuff, but they know where they’re from and they know each other. Helps a lot. Put your thumb on that scale and eventually it will pay dividends.

[@VBadBaboon]

@@emilysmith2965 Ho boy what a blast from the past. Things have definitely changed since I wrote this. Long story short, I had to kick some toxic players out of the campaign for adding player drama out of game, and we've changed settings. The most valuable lesson I learned is that I'm not Matt Mercer or Brennan Lee Mulligan, and my friends are not a cast. I'm me, my friends are my friends, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[@IvoryHourglass]

I could listen to Brennan talk about DnD for years.

[@Jessie_Helms]

Brennan’s random Paladin idea: Religious guy in a city named Greystone who has strong ideals. Me: A religious guy who lives in a city called Greystone with strong ideals. _I HAVE BEEN SEEN_

[@Jakeu1701]

Love Lou's hair. absolutely bad ass.

[@MysterySemicolon]

I have seen all these LA-based RPG groups recently online and it gives the impression that LA is a city full of games and you can pick and choose what you want. But like Lou said at the beginning it's hard to break into a group sometimes. I would totally move to LA and stand there "Hey everyone! Looking for a group and new to LA!" with a big goofy grin on my face and then have zero response... for years... and years.

[@gabividigal2839]

i have no business being this into lou

[@GDonor]

"Hey Brandon, I'd like to piss in this canyon!" made me crack my shit at work. Thank god I am alone lol

[@dylanwilson7544]

Just finding this after watching EXU Calamity!! Lou and Brennan (and Luis) BLEW ME AWAY. SO much talent from these guys, the improv from Lou was hypnotic

[@misteriousgamr41]

They are each other's hype man

[@fiaTheFae]

I'm running Hoard of the Dragon Queen (my first time DMing), and I'm flipping it around so the Angels are the bad guys. I'm calling it, "The Archangel's Bounty", or something like that

[@benvoliothefirst]

Wait, WHAT?! How's it going now?

[@baileymorton4116]

That’ll definitely be useful in keeping the players from reading the module book if nothing else

[@kierabutler1739]

That sounds so cool and the name is EPICCC.That's such a fun and creative idea and it sounds like such a fun game

[@sunniqa899]

Lou’s campaign sounds like such a dope setting and I’d love to hear more about it.

[@notsure1987]

I love Lou's vocal fry so much

[@daneshiner2298]

Ok but Brennan naming a dwarven city "Siggle" is DEFINITELY throwing some friendly shade at Matt Mercer.

[@MrGerbear]

Ok but he said Sigil, City of Doors, which is a canon DnD location, not Siggle, City of Dwarves.

[@dig8634]

@@MrGerbear I will say hearing those sounds will forever remind me of Matt, whether it is context appropriate or not XD

[@benjaminmatheny6683]

Brennan describes being a DM like you are a Marvel brand manager. Each PC is one of the superheros, and the DM's job is to weave each of their arcs together for the ensemble "Avengers" movie.

[@Ailieorz]

10:00 reminds me of when I ran a one-shot for some work friends, I needed a name for an NPC so I used one of our colleges. Almost completely derailed the session as they all decided to destroy the town guard to defend her honour

[@babassoonist557]

Brennan’s advice for players that your character should always have an adventurous spirit is so good, when I do get the chance to play as a PC I usually am a wizard, and the very first thing I’ll do before I even give a backstory is work with the DM to identify a piece of knowledge my character wants to learn, it could be spell scrolls, secrets about their setting, dark knowledge it doesn’t matter what matters is that it is a tangible goal my character wants and it’s one that can usually easily fit into games

[@MrAverus]

For those fortunate enough to play more than once a week, modules help you run fully fleshed out adventures when you might not have enough time to prepare more than one adventure.

[@PapaWolfDogZeus]

I can tell this episode was recorded before Brennan ever played with Aabria Iyengar

[@thief05]

I kinda wanna have a lich show up and be like, "Hey, I'm a classic monster, very scary." now XD

[@rocketracoon709]

46:25 I know Brennan is referring to maybe bigger scenes being narrated by dm when no pc can see it, but also thinking of Aabria teaching him how to implement that technique years later in small ways 😂 how far we've come

[@RoninRaconteur]

Very late to this party, but this is a conversation I was having with my girlfriend recently. Character creation is one of the biggest fundamental parts of RPGs. Not just the rolls made but the motivations and goals...which can change or at least shift from how they're reached...throughout the game. Those motivations and goals are essential building blocks to help guild the DM as well as the PCs. All of this conversation was one I've had and I completely agree with you on this.

[@moviemavenmommy]

It's really interesting listening to them discuss this process & seeing how it mirrors my process for novel writing. The play makes so much difference

[@bigboyart1]

I'd love to see the game with the Desert setting that Lou made being played on this channel.

[@nullunit]

I love the idea of Bumbeldo, having to re-orient his whole organization to become like a Pinkerton agency to chase down the player characters.

[@amongmateswithmodbrat6799]

I’m really excited to watch this series of podcasts! A great way to start my new year

[@acecommanderjoker3926]

I just discovered these and... I am gonna be binging this

[@atttwaa7849]

same

[@KillerBerserk007]

I agree with the PC pacing. But I've had many sessions where as the GM I say "hey you have this whole town with dozens of plot hooks" and they just look at me like ugh? Same way as how brennen described it. It wasn't even new characters but the PCs wanted to just be fed story. I let them get off the tracks and they didn't care for it, to the point where after we discussed and we all agreed that if I hadn't planned anything yet. That they would prefer the 'invisible wall' come up and turn them back.

[@Caernunnos]

oh my god I love Lou ! His laugh is so contagious ,he's great !

[@ownphantomandtoy]

52:20 Ah yes I can't wait for the carpenter of the nearby village to rip his shirt off and pummel this fucking Darkmantle.

[@krystallinecestmoneau1358]

So great to hear them reflect on a great dnd series , I've really come to appreciate and respect the dedication of the whole team , ♡

[@antoniozabalza82]

Omg! Please! Please make more of these! I am 12 minutes in and have laughed more than I can stand. I am loving these RPG shows/podcasts. Keep up the great work Brennan! Lou you are amazing! Great info btw!

[@cj719521]

This show is dope. Tuned in twice now, and I’ve been impressed both times. Thank you all!