Creating Variety For My Roguelike Game - Devlog 8

[@HelperWesley]

Don't forget to comment and let me know what you think about my game design question at the end. 🤔 I've been thinking about it since the beginning of the project, but.... 🤷‍♂

[@Glowstick-eater.]

for your timer idea at the end, I think it should be a gamemode, a challenge for the more advanced players. just put some sort of clock statue in the lobby to activate it or smt.

[@HelperWesley]

@@Glowstick-eater. It could definitely just be a game mode. 🤔 Could maybe even have it's own leaderboard too.

[@pandagaming6469]

@@HelperWesley 2 things 1 for the timer you could implement something like the game “spelunky” where once it hits a certain time maybe it’s harder or something until you beat the next boss and following that some very high skill players in spelunky choose to stay with the harder difficulty for prolonged amounts of time to get a higher score so maybe the harder enemies give more points? That last part was mainly just for fun but I think the spelunky idea could work (I didn’t explain the mechanic very well just search spelunky high score run) 2 PLEASE ADD SCREEN SHAKE TO THE SNIPER

[@HelperWesley]

@@pandagaming6469 1 will do 2 THERE IS A TINY BIT OF SCREENSHAKE ALREADY (but a tiny bit more the sniper might be a good idea)

[@bananatom7653]

leave it the way it is, I feel like a timer might put slightly too much pressure on new players and they might not think on what to choose, or what combinations are the best, because players won't be able to think when they have to quickly kill things without really knowing what things are doing because there is a strict time limit. Though an idea for a timer could be every time you kill an enemy or boss, you get more time, so if players aren't going moderately fast, they die, and another idea/mechanic for a timer in this game could be that the more bosses you kill or the further you get, the faster the clock ticks, but the more time you get, therefore hopefully making the player have to go faster and faster as they get stronger and stronger. But these are just my thoughts of it, if you really want to know what to do, maybe give playtesters (and maybe yourself) a mode that has the timer to get some feedback on it!

[@prod.n8te]

I feel like the timer should instead be something like the Risk of Rain difficulty timer, that makes the game harder over time. It’s a fun mechanic and makes it so the player can’t live as long due to the difficulty, but also makes runs less stale by having the player speed up to beat the level before the difficulty spikes.

[@HelperWesley]

I've honestly thought of that. Having the timer count up and increase damage over time encourages people to move quickly, which is what I want. I want people to rush and make mistakes, then they'll die sooner and go back to the base to spend more points. But I don't know if thats the solution I want to go with or not. 🤔 Since that does encourage immediate rushing from the start, and I want people to ease in to the experience at first. I'm really just looking for something to cut the late game short.

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

Maybe the timer could start after beating a boss then? Or something like that.

[@shentt8837]

timer starts from area 2 and area 1 serves the purpose of a tutorial area

[@mrfrog0913]

@@HelperWesley you could just make the rooms get harder ,quicker but still have the new enemys appear when they do.

[@usbtypec.]

For the timer, I think having it required could be a bit annoying at times, but to make it optional, you could have it be where if you turn it on before the run starts, you get like x1.5 points. You could also have it where instead of an instant death, when the timer reaches 0, the difficulty ramps up faster (so instead of +0.2 danger lvl per room, it would be +0.4), similar to the difficulty scaling from risk of rain 2

[@sadgeleaf_4915]

i think those are amazing options, not forcing the run to end, but making it a lot harder to succeed

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

I wonder if enemies could get some skills added, or chance to spawn more enemies. Maybe you also could see enemy buffs from time in some menu in run

[@usbtypec.]

@@principleshipcoleoid8095 or maybe just a lot more enemies spawn per room

[@genryu_strike7992]

This exactly.

[@bumblingBird-]

or it could just be a bonus reward if you clear it fast like in deadcells

[@Rune_Forge]

No time limit. Your videos are getting more entertaining!

[@JC47387]

I think that you should give the player points when they break the destructible objects.

[@MegaTuroc]

One thing I've seen done is that- you have a time limit, it gets harder over time, but when the timer is up, it spawn an invincible enemy that chases the player, when it touches the player it kills them. There may be a few perma perks that involve surving a minute or two into the kill screen with each character

[@TheSparkgod]

Maybe instead of just killing the player once time runs out, it could get ridiculously hard instead, I wouldn't want to just die if my run is going really well and I'm having fun, but I do agree that it definitely needs to end, and I'm sure an entire final boss battle is way too much to implement by the 5th. Maybe you could take a page out of Spelunkys book and make an invincible ghost spawn and chase you through every room once the time limit gets reached? Or you could just add an endless mode that you unlock after you reach the time limit to keep both sides happy.

[@HelperWesley]

I've thought about doing the spelunky ghost thing, but having it look like the arms from don't starve, and each time you go through a door the arms open slightly to give you more time. 🤔 But that's the tricky bit, satisfying the needs of two kinds of people. A timer will just stress out low skill players, but it's needed for those at a higher skill level...... The game scales really hard already, and will get to the point where it will 1 shot you if you get hit, but some playtesters were even able to get passed that. 😅

[@pynaphy]

Cheers to 8k! Can't wait for the final product!

[@Ryuu28_voidgames]

Timer cool Probably adds alot to the game too

[@izaakburningham3188]

Personally, I think that IF an insta kill timer is added, it should be an optional thing to turn on. For me, part of the fun the roguelites/roguelikes is bending the game over backwards and seeing just how hard you can break it with crazy item combos. An example of this is Tiny Rogues, where you can get fun synergies where you get more damage per potion you have, per status on an enemy, so on and so forth, while also making those effects permanent instead of normally temporary buffs. This is seen most on high HP characters and Tippler, making the Tipsy status permanent. Tipsy increases your damage by 10% per stack, and has a max stack of your HP max, but lasts about a full level and requires purchasing more, while Tippler means crazy runs like the 7HP Tank doing near double damage while having 20 different buffs on him.

[@NoahTheRobinson]

I don't think an abrupt timer is a good idea because that just frustrates people who want to explore but I do think something like what risk of rain does is a good approach because instead of killing you for taking too long, it becomes a choice of if you want to explore at the cost of the game becoming more difficult in later levels.

[@premedlynxgames]

A timer would definitely make things a lot more interesting, sounds like a neat idea! If there was a timer, you could make it so killing a boss/mini boss could add a bit more time, basically encouraging the idea of trying to get through the furthest room quickly during a playthrough. Good luck on your upcoming release!

[@davidepitone3343]

I’d say no to the timer that kills you. Instead, I’d say to make some kind of timer like in Bubble Bubble (a fairly old game): in the game, when you are in a non-boss level for too much time, enemies become faster and if you’re taking even more time an unkillable ghost enemy appears. This is so that even if the player surpasses the time limit, he can stil try to get as further as he can do. Hope this helps!

[@tigrkai]

I agree with @3beta about the timer, but I think the smoke bomb from gun dudette needs to be more balanced, with a max range or something like that.

[@kwipxd]

About the timer, i think its a good idea but not everyone will like it. So why not do both! Have 2 separate gameodes, something like “casual”and “challenge” with separate leaderboards with casual being no timer and challenge being timered

[@HelperWesley]

I could definitely add a toggle in the main menu for that. 🤔 But I'm not really a fan of splitting a playerbase up, because I'm not sure if I'll get enough players to fill up 2 sets of leaderboards. Maybe I will get that many though. It's hard to tell with these things. 😅

[@StevePixelFace]

Awesome devlog as always. Abilities feel nice and different.

[@HelperWesley]

Thanks, I'm hoping people will use them with the more varied weapons and have their own preferred combinations. 🤞

[@eunit08]

You should make the timer thing into a separate mode. Make the mode without the timer into the easy mode. And I agree with someone who said that you shouldnt kill off the player but to make the game's difficulty spike up.

[@miberss]

wow im in this video (7:24) Midas!

[@laroumstudios]

Hello, Very good video, excited for more!

[@HelperWesley]

Thanks. 👍

[@WhimsicalGobelin]

I feel like the smoke ability should have a limited range with a marker to see it, and the fire ability be a sort of incendiary grenade Great game btw, I'd love to see more!

[@HelperWesley]

I did originally plan to make the fire ability a thrown object, but it got lost in my to-do list, and in the rush never got added in. I do still like the ability, being able to click on the exact enemy you want to hit or randomly filling the room with fire does feel like a choice you get to make. But.... if I come back and work more on this game in the future, I'll probably change that. 🤔

[@williamwester223]

Always look forward to your videos

[@HelperWesley]

Me too. 😉

[@ruffark]

I just starting learning GDevelop. Your video's are a goldmine. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You are awesome!

[@Skeffles]

Fantastic progress! This game is really looking great now. I really like the ghost speed boost and the new player abilities. As for adding a timer, I don't think every player would appreciate it however you could add it as a challenge mode for skilled players to show off and progress faster.

[@foreducation408]

These characters abilities are soo cool.

[@RockyMulletGamedev]

Those environment art thingies really enhance the look of the game, I specially like that green thing on the floor.

[@HelperWesley]

Supposed to be a carpet or cloth thrown on the ground. 😅 But yeah, I think they help fill up the rooms with objects. Make them look more like "once" lived in spaces.

[@StefanHiggs]

I think you could use a o2 level, the more you dash and move the more o2 you use, so you start with a basic air canister, then use points to upgrade to make it last longer, like the default could be 3 minutes, then each upgrade could add 2 minutes. Just a thought 😊

[@HelperWesley]

That's similar to what a lot of people were saying for a timer, make it a physical resource that runs out, instead of a basic timer. I love air depletion mechanics in game, same as temperature mechanics when players need to stay warm, but I think I'd want a complete art overhaul so that makes more with the game. 🤔 I'll probably just skip the timer.... It'll no doubt keep nagging at the back of my mind, so maybe I'll end up adding it as an optional game mode. 😅

[@StefanHiggs]

You could do bullet allowance also, so once you’ve shot X amount of bullets you’ll need to restock

[@diminished4934]

I don't know if this is too late to say or has been said, but the spider pathfinding isn't really an issue if you want it to be something that can be trapped by smartly positioning yourself. A simple closest path algorithm can be cheesed so that if the player notices, they can move in such a way to effectively trap the spider.

[@PPCv2]

adding a timer would be nice but not as a whole game feature but maybe as a gamemode where you get more points or upgrades but you die in a some time limit and keeping the nontime limit gamemode for those who never played or heard of a game before

[@FunnyBaaMan]

Very good

[@cheezum]

I think that some screen shake would be nice when you hit enemies or an "impact" when you dash.

[@HelperWesley]

Some kind of screen or character reaction when you run in to a wall would be a neat little bit of juice. 🤔

[@iliarkirottu]

I think timer should be the in separate game mode or an option to turn on for speedruns or something alike, I mean ninja have no advantages in speeding killing process up, but guy with explosive bullets have

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

Maybe a soft "timer" - where time spent in a room with enemies fills up a bar that will give some enemies a buff for future rooms. And this bar is repeatable.

[@IrynStyl]

I think adding a timer will be a good idea, but only if there's ultimately a way to actually win the game. Perhaps after beating every kind of boss the main boss will randomly appear in a room and defeating that leads to credits.

[@Sakros]

that "not dnd - chaotic" came out of nowhere, nice!

[@andreahoffman8152]

Maybe you could make kind of energy status, when characters cross some time limit they will start to loose energy, get tired and be more slow. So they can choose to return back and refill, drink some energy drink, or stay and fight with less energy. Players will be gentle pushed to play quickly. Longer stay will make feeling that enemies are more difficult. People usually also get tired after some exercise and need break. Like long tennis match - sometimes players are happy, when game breaks because of rain.

[@josesanchezart1244]

Consider creating a timer that replenishes as the player kills enemies to collect experience and time fragments. Additionally, add random upgrades that can slow the depletion rate or increase the maximum amount of time. This will give players the option to adjust their playstyle by choosing between purchasing upgrades that affect the player or the amount of time they can spend in the game. If players find themselves dying frequently due to the timer, they may choose to invest in upgrades that increase the timer. On the other hand, if they are dying frequently due to enemies, they may choose to invest in upgrades that boost their abilities.

[@Banx810]

Love these videos, inspiring me to get into game dev!

[@HelperWesley]

If you enjoy problem solving, it's really fun to get in to. 👍

[@ryanshadow507]

What I would recommend for the timer is instead of making it a death timer maker a timer so that the player gets more points the faster they go. It could be a point mtiplyer or bonus points if you finish a room fast enough. This would not punish bad players and still encourage good to go fast.

[@quizcarnage]

Great improvements! Timer would be awesome only if you add mechanisms to add extra time on events (collectable items, cleaning level in a minimum time, etc.)

[@oXGoldenHeartXo]

Add A Timer, But Make It So It Makes It Into A 'Sudden Death' Mode, Where Everything Has Double Stats. To Balance This, Make It So When You Clear A Room, You Gain Time, And Start With Like, 10 Mins? This Is A Fair Way To Add A Timer, And Keep The Player On The Edge Of Their Seat!

[@randomsounds2167]

I feel like there should be a timer but, it doesn't force the end of the run immediately. My idea would be to make everything progressively become stupidly difficult beyond that timer e.g. 1 health, enemies begin to home bullets, faster melee enemy speed, faster enemy bullets, etc. nothing that actively damages the players build but simply forces a seemingly preventable death. idk just an idea.

[@HelperWesley]

Hi cool kids.

[@hazielfira3388]

I think you could add paintings to the rooms :))

[@rac_coun]

Maybe you could look at Dead Cells for how it encourages players to rush through runs by giving the players stuff. It even has different levels of timers for fast and truly speedy players.

[@DavidOBravo]

A new optional "timer mode" would be a nice addition, but I think it would feel unfair to make your way through a whole lot of monsters and then die because of something you don't control. Probably it would work better to make the enemies more of a challenge from the very start, allowing the player to die more times at first but later survive longer just because he gets good at it. But hey, good progress :) I'm excited to see how this all turns out!

[@eduardocarbajal399]

Wow it is so interesting

[@timothymclean]

3:11: Yup. Smarter enemies aren't always better enemies. 8:04: I'd suggest adding a soft timer. Not something that kills you after 15 minutes, but something that makes surviving 16 minutes difficult. HoloCure has a very _blunt_ example of this; at 30 minutes, enemies twice as tough as any non-boss enemy start spawning in massive numbers. Maybe after X minutes, the occasional enemy with a golden crown or red particle effects or something would start spawning (in addition to the normal enemies present)-enemies significantly stronger or tougher than normal mobs. They would get more common over time, until they overwhelmed the player. There are other ways to add a soft timer; slowly-draining HP or invincible angry ghosts or just scaling the power of normal enemies hard enough. But I feel like such a soft timer would suit this kind of game better than "It's been 15 minutes, you're dead".

[@jakovmatosic4890]

I think clutter is good, I'd allow for rooms with spikes to have some wall like destructible objects. It's not like it makes the game much harder, and you could introduce some interesting movement mechanics to go along with the restrictive movement.

[@danielobrien5216]

Answer to question: NO TIMER!

[@arthuruiugamesbr9777]

Hint:you should create a trail for the smoke tp ability, it helps the eyes to catch where the player is easily

[@KawsMeDev]

Could have something where the timers multiple the danger as well so you ramp up in danger fast. I like the idea of an hourglass or something in the main room that you use to toggle it on or off. Maybe have normal have timers that ramp up difficulty and then the extreme timer can be a toggle that kills you if you run out of them. I feel like there should be some sort of end boss or something in that event so you have something to kill and doing so within that timer is the objective.

[@HelperWesley]

Right now the difficulty ramps up as you go from one room to another, having timers drive the difficulty is very "risk of rain", which I might do..... I'm not completely sure yet, the timer idea keeps popping up in the back of my mind. I might end up adding it as an optional mode, or I might run out of time and not do anything with it. 😅

[@KawsMeDev]

@@HelperWesley I meant the timer multiplying the danger you get from room to room not that the danger just increases on its own with the timer, but some configuration of those can be tested I'm sure. Whatever you feel like would help fix the problem you had.

[@soundzythedev]

You should have a timer option to toggle on and off

[@JonathanDaniel-bk7ue]

try using the platformer behavior for the player and change gravity to zero and give the wall the platform behaviour

[@mercai]

Should be a no-brainer answer: let players play at their own pace. No timers, they are just not a good idea. Otherwise it shapes up to be a game that is mainly fun for the developer and the few trigger-happy bullet-hell pros, and for everybody else it becomes a punishing grind.

[@colemanbrunet6684]

I think the timer should be optional but there should be a distinction on the leaderboard kinda like two different categories.

[@DJ-if2ng]

I like it with no timer and maybe add a different mode with one so you can acaudate for multiple play styles

[@okaygeOK]

for the gun dudette make the smoke bomb have a timer so the player isnt just constantly right clicking

[@HelperWesley]

Oh, no worries, you need to collect a certain number of points in order to use your abilities. I just had that part of the code turned off for the video so I could show off the abilities better. 👍

[@ibsl7720]

Idea for timer. Add a timer that decreases the point values at the end of each increment of said timer, having the timer restart after decreasing the values. As a result it will encourage fast paced progress but those who want to go longer can

[@HelperWesley]

Oh, that's a cool way to do it. 🤔 I'm releasing the game in 3 days, so I'm just going to spend that time tweaking and polishing. But I'm sure the topic of a timer will I come back up if I work on the game again later. 😅

[@Noob-ot8rf]

for the particles u should make them spread out more, stay on the ground, and disappear slower edit: for the destructible objects to clarify

[@Armithiel]

Awesome work Wesley! Your game is going incridble well! About the timer: I hate games who push me to do things fast, cause I like to think the alternatives. Like Xcom2, I like the mechanics but the battle against the time kills me. I wish you sucess always! Hugs from Brazil!

[@asaf333steinberg9]

You can put a timer in each room, you will need to kill all the enemys befor the timer run out. And as you finsing more rooms the timer give you les time to finsh the room, You can do it that if the timer run out you will die instantle, or you can give the player slownes and poisning and add more as the time go. 👍👍👍👍👍

[@iiropeltonen]

I recommend rembering that not all players are really skilled. I vote "your own Pave"

[@HelperWesley]

Yeah, that's why I haven't added the timer yet. The timer would make the game more interesting for high skilled players, but just more stressful for low skill players. 🤔

[@Harmoniou-s]

Following what others are saying about the risk of rain difficulty timer I feel like you should have something a bit more "unique" to yours if you go that route. Instead of an "instant kill" timer, have it make the difficulty "double" and reset the timer. Make projectiles 2x as fast. Make the projectiles start to follow the player for x seconds and get faster each time. Make enemies shoot out 2x as many projectiles. Make the melee enemies 2x as fast. And just cycle through those for each "timer" that runs out (1 minute?) The difficulty would start slow, but after 4 "pops" of x2 projectiles youre already at x16

[@11sveden12]

One way to get around punitive mechanics like a death timer is to flip it around and instead of punishing / gating the player for taking too long, reward the player for completing things quickly. Perhaps completing certain objectives in a certain time offers a bonus, or unlocks some other mechanic (ideally relevant to speed running to further reinforce that playstyle). That way speed runners are happy and incentivized, and non-speed runners can go at their own pace (would also be good to reward / reinforce this playstyle as well).

[@Goofy_Geek]

i think give players an option... they can choose whether to have a timer or not, and have separate leaderboards for each game mode

[@pixelcatmagic]

Here's a weird idea: make the death timer slow down exponentially/increase when health is low.

[@HelperWesley]

So you mean, if the player plays on low health they can play longer, but they'll always be 1 hit from death. 👀 That might be hard to explain how that works to the player, but it would make for a really interesting mechanic. 🤔

[@pixelcatmagic]

@@HelperWesley It could be a background mechanic, just to make sure the timer isn't prolonging a run if the player is overpowered and never gets hit.

[@jayman1462]

As for the timer, I don't think so, but you could make it so you can go to the hub and then resume your game so you can spend points during the game.

[@KingKhiGaming]

The explosion is just Minecraft sand break SFX

[@HelperWesley]

Shhhh, don't tell microsoft. 🙊

[@KingKhiGaming]

@@HelperWesley don't worry ur secret is safe with the me(and the whole internet)

[@trolley265]

-I like that idea but I think you should do it like this whenever you want to start the game you can pick between free play which means you can play forever or a ranked one where there is a timer and affects your score on the leader board -add different game modes to add variety -try to add multiplayer it will be fun to play with friends Edit: instead of the timer you can make a timer were that timer is over the game will have difficulty spike and then a new timer starts to do that process again

[@Ryalus]

This is awesome, keep it up!

[@artsage63]

If you do add a timer I think you should be able to get more time while playing

[@hudrozz]

I feel like statues and fountains could look cool as breakables.

[@hudrozz]

I think that the best course of action is definitely the risk of rain style difficulty timer.

[@mrfrog0913]

You shouldn't add a timer but you could give the player a boost to the player if you do go quick, like a score boost or a damage boost for the next room or somthing.

[@HelperWesley]

Hmmmm. A score boost. 🤔 It's too late now because I'm releasing the game in 3 days, but maybe that'll be added if I come back and work on it again in the future 🤔

[@Moame1]

an Optional Timer would be nice because the beginners can turn it off to play longer

[@gruntgaming5528]

Maybe a melee based character? Maybe a berserker class, Good damage, Armor, And short range sounds interesting for a roguelike

[@katniny]

I think if you add a timer to the game, you should make it optional to have or alternatively, make a way to get more time for your run.

[@HelperWesley]

I've considered that, but it's not solving the core issue I'm struggling with. The potential for high skilled players to play beyond the point of the game being fun anymore. 🤔

[@SquareCeption]

what you can make the timer a very slight decrease in point gain or an increase in difficulty to make them want to hurry make the timer count up if you want to do this (Optional): make the timer a little thing in the pause menu or a very slight translucent detail Edit:(IMPORTANT): if you go with the first option, make sure you cap the decrease at a reasonable level!

[@omegaminoseer4539]

I have two responses to this video: [04:26] Gun Dudette having an unscalable Blink makes her the best character in the game. I think that the distance should consume more/less of your MP bar, which only increases by clearing floors without it. It means that she does the most DPS because anyone who plays a survival based game will assert that being able to dodge is infinitely better than doing more damage. I'd think making her only able to TP 1/2 the screen is fairer because I'd abuse that mechanic so hard. As for the insta-kill timer, you may be looking at it backwards. What that incentivizes as a player group is to engage with the game the least and do the least effort to get upgrades (See: Johhny Upgrade speedruns). I would say you should flip the timer and give each room a 15-20s timer. Failing it would give you a *par* score but completing a room in less time would promote you with more points per room. If a player reaches -20s in a room, you could summon a Hellhound; an enemy that forces them to leave or it kills them. This would be like Spelunky, as many of my brethren in the comment section have emphasized.

[@HelperWesley]

I definitely think the highest skilled players will go with the blink, but through playtesting I found that people are just as likely to panic blink in to a hazard as they are to blink to safety. So right now I'm going to leave it as is, where you can use it ~1 time per room, but if it's the "only meta" then I'll change it later. 🤔 I'll check out Johhny upgrade speedruns. 🤔

[@bananatom7653]

leave it the way it is, I feel like a timer might put slightly too much pressure on new players and they might not think on what to choose, or what combinations are the best, because players won't be able to think when they have to quickly kill things without really knowing what things are doing because there is a strict time limit. Though an idea for a timer could be every time you kill an enemy or boss, you get more time, so if players aren't going moderately fast, they die, and another idea/mechanic for a timer in this game could be that the more bosses you kill or the further you get, the faster the clock ticks, but the more time you get, therefore hopefully making the player have to go faster and faster as they get stronger and stronger. But these are just my thoughts of it, if you really want to know what to do, maybe give playtesters (and maybe yourself) a mode that has the timer to get some feedback on it!

[@HelperWesley]

Yeah, If I was going to do a timer, something other than just a strict time limit that'll kill you if you're not fast enough would definitely be better and more interesting for players. 🤔 Maybe I could try a run with playtesters with a timer, and see what the result is. 🤔(Though I might have cut it too close with the release deadline for that. 😅)

[@masterayy3731]

maybe having an option for the timer if people want to speed run into as fast as possible or if they want to take it slow in my opinion i would have it be an option and it would giver more points than regular run

[@Acezer]

You can make a vampire survivors type timer where at the end of the timer a final boss spawns that kills u if you dont kill it

[@Epicnoob-ux7es]

I personally think the timer would be a nice touch but I think the timer should be set to something like 5 minutes and every idk for this example let's say 4 kills adds like 10-20 seconds back to the timer idk lol forcing the player to kinda go fast if they want to live that with the possibility of enemy hp and damage scaling should be enough to kill them early

[@jessejburton]

Hey! What about different game modes? One with a timer and one without?

[@matthewventures]

See how dead cells does timed rewards. Or spelunky pawns a invincible enemy after a time. Just a timer is lame but these alternative would work.

[@isaacmoon7093]

I think u should have a timer on the game but have an endless mode too. Their might have to be 2 leader boards and the timed 1 could be the more competative leader board I guess. I also really like to see how strong I can possibly get in a roguelike so i think u should have it as an option

[@HelperWesley]

Yeah, that's what a few people have suggested. But I'm not sure I want to do that because it'll split the playerbase. I'd need a lot of players to fill up 2 sets of leaderboards, and keep that part interesting. 🤔

[@isaacmoon7093]

@@HelperWesley hmm good point well know that Im probably gonna suggest it to all my friends i think maybe make the timed mode the normal mode and have endless mode like an unlockable mode for beating the timer enough times or something

[@Prajwal____]

I dont know about the timer, but I think when we kill the enemies, they drop some coins, these coins should be a bit bigger size and should look attractive

[@ianmclean9382]

I love that carpet tho

[@dominiczek07]

I think instead of timer you could have added collision to the bullets. So for example when you shoot at the enemy and it shoots at you both the shots vanish. It would make this game much more competetive and harder.

[@tctt185_dg]

If you want a Timer in your game, how about have *time as a statistic* that the player can change with upgrades. When you start a run, the timer will start counting down from 60 seconds by default at the start of every run. Once it reaches 0, the timer resets and continues counting down. Each time it resets, the difficulty ramps up, etiher with some more enemies or objects in your way in future rooms. Once players are in an empty room, they can get an upgrade. All upgrades have a *time stat* that shows how many seconds it *adds or takes away* from your timer in the current run. The time stat goes into effect the next time the timer resets and will stay that way for the remainder of the run. This adds in a challenge for the players to strategically figure out if the upgrade is worth having at the cost of your time and difficulty with enemies. For newer players, they would go for upgrades that will also increase their *time stats* at the cost of not getting great upgrades while for experience players, they would their character to *be strong* at the cost of their time stats. For casuals, they would want a bit of a *balance* of both time stats and upgrades. You could also award (or curse) them with an option for a RARE upgrade (or downgrade 😈) that just focuses on your time stats. It shouldn't be huge enough in amount that it becomes game breaking but it shouldn't be small enough that it becomes worthless to pick. That's how I think it works mechanics wise. For visuals, that's very simple. Slap a stopwatch icon on the top middle of the screen. The middle part of the stopwatch decreases from full to empty and there is a number in that circle that serves as the countdown. The circle is coloured and should ideally start from light blue or cyan but the colour gets warmer each time it resets and starts a new cycle, indicating the intensity. Once it reaches red and the player is still alive after it reaches 0, go into shades of red that gradually gets darker, showing how insane the player is at keeping themselves alive at this point. It's the games way of saying - "Hey! You're not supposed to be alive at this point!" or "Wow. The enemies must really be weak for you. Well good luck. Here's a bunch more and they're the most brutal!" The number is white but it turns red in the last few seconds before it reaches 0. Things to note... - The only times the Timer should not count down is in these situations; you're in a Boss fight, you're obtaining an upgrade, you died, or before you start your run. The stopwatch circle stops decreasing and the circle part of the stop watch should be coloured grey. - The number on the countdown updates when it resets after it reaches 0 and when it starts a new cycle. So you will need to make sure the Timer checks the Time Stats on your upgrades. Maths is pretty simple for that one, *60 + (the combined total of the time stats on all upgrades the player has currently) = the new start time* for every cycle on the Timer. The circle part of the Stopwatch should reflect it being either slower if it is better than 60 or faster if it is less than 60. (eg. *60 + (-10) = 50* or 60 + (10) = 70*)

[@HaiTaiBai]

When the robot uses their shield they should do way less dmg so it isn’t too op

[@junj1023]

I liked the time limit, but is unfair to begginers, maybe making it a option, like, you get points multipliers if you use some curses, one is the time limit. I think the better thing to do is making the game even more harder, playtesters passed by hit kill enemies? At that point, you could just spawn more and more enemies.

[@HelperWesley]

That is the alternative. If I don't add the timer I'll keep filling the rooms and increasing the damage until people die. But at that point it's unfair to higher skilled players.🤔 This is why the timer is something I keep going back and forth on, it'll make the game interesting for high skilled players, but needlessly stressful for low skilled players who might die well before the time runs out. 😅

[@junj1023]

@@HelperWesley You could make the dungeon beginning to destroy itself, like rocks falling from the sky, and when the timer goes off, all the dungeon breaks down. Like, just a timer is boring, but i think people would like it as a game design, maybe? Idk, hope you findo your awnsers, waiting for your next devlog ^^

[@exopsgobrrr]

do not add a timer. just make the enemies difficulty increase over time. also, this game has seriously potential and you shouldnt give it up and stop updating after release. also you should add maybe more areas with different enemies and such in the future if you decide to keep updating would also love to see this on steam

[@HelperWesley]

If this game does really well when I release it, I'll come back to it after I finish my next short project and add more to the game to turn it in to a commercial product. 👍

[@oluwer2165]

Maybe instead of killing based on a timer, after long enough something like a grimm reaper could appear that chases player and makes it a lot harder to survive

[@kxnnoir]

awesome video!!

[@solvult7284]

u should totally add secrets in rooms that can only be accessed by certain characters

[@samz_fr]

I think it would be best to add the timer on a separate game mode, with higher rewards. Making the timer a default feature will add challenge, yes, but it will also make mistakes more punishing and add stress instead of fun. If the purpose is to make the player die, come back and spend points on upgrades, I think this design could be reflected on the enemies instead. Maybe, for example, an enemy that has a mechanic which can be beaten without the upgrades, but when you upgrade your character the mechanic is made a lot easier. Like bullets piercing through enemies or walls on critical hits, to counter that enemy that makes a little barrier on the ground, for example. Also, I have a few Ideas for the Characters Abilities: .First Character: Instead of an explosive shot, what about making it a grenade that can be launched at the target location and explode after a few seconds? Maybe have also upgrades that make the grenades damage and area of explosion higher. .Second Character: I like the teleport, but one cool thing that I thought was to add an extra mechanic to it. Like, when the character teleports, it leaves a "shadow clone" behind and when the player uses the skill again, it teleports to the clones location. Maybe upgrades could add a little smoke bomb kinda thing when the player teleports back to the clone, blinding or disorienting enemies. .Third Character: I like the idea of the shield, but what about make it a barrier that will not only block bullets, but repel them? This could be a great defensive and also offensive option for the robot. .Fourth Character: I reaaaaaally like the idea of this character being more chaotic and the flames spreading. I think it would also be cool if the flames set the objects on the room on fire, dealing constant damage to nearby enemies and even the player. I think the ideas that I proposed add a bit more of mechanical difficulty to the game and I don't know if they align with your vision, but I think they're fun! I also don't know how hard would it be to implement it. Really like how your game is shaping up and I wish you a smooth release! Cheers!

[@YeOlde_Monk]

Personally, I always thought Timers are an outdated game mechanic, which was implemented just to take more money out of players in the arcade, and later developers implemented it "just because everybody does it". But now that you mentioned that your game should be a "quick session - in and out in 5 minutes", that makes a lot of sense. OR! You can give players an option to play "Endless" if they want to. I think giving that diversity in playability is a big decisive factor for some players to come back to the game.

[@HelperWesley]

Yeah, timers have a bad rap, but I do think if used properly they can be useful. Or even just displayed differently, like an oxygen meter running low and you only have X amount of time to do a task. 🤔 A lot of people are talking about a separate mode for the two, I'm not sure how I feel about that, but maybe. 🤔

[@Spacespydev]

Disagree with the timer, have the difficulty increase as the player enters new rooms, however if you do a timer, at the very least increase the time based on enemy kills

[@zippa93]

Amazing progress! One thought, I’m not sure if the table and chairs item really fits the context/setting of the game. Were the monsters having dinner parties before you arrived?

[@HelperWesley]

Crumpets and tea. .😅

[@youtubewatcher6124]

I think you shouldn't add a timer, rather spawn mobs of enemies the longer the game goes. For example after spending 1 min on a room it spawns another batch of enemies (stronger) that would force the player to move on to the next room or keep facing the consequences. I'm personally biased on time trial games, beginners usually gets discourage when they are rushed unfairly and might end up quiting the game.

[@justehcupcake]

Leave no timer But maybe each room enemies damage scales up? Or every boss? Make some way for enemies to eventually kill the player? Could also make attacks happen quicker for enemies eventually making the game almost impossible? Seems more fair then a random timer killing the player