Creative 38 Special Loads - The SDS Concept

[@brentchambers511]

These videos are the new Bob Ross for me. Nothing is quite as a relaxing as Steve’s mellow delivery and the sound of cartridges dropping in a revolver cylinder.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

BC - Thanks for the gracious comment, Brent..!! And a very Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to you and yours, Steve

[@rehoboth_farm]

A dear old shooting range friend of mine used to talk all the time about what he called "an excellent apartment load". He would take a .38 hollow base wad cutter and load it upside down. He said that it wasn't accurate at any distance but it would expand out to more than .50 on impact. Wow. I miss old Calvin. I'm sure he's gone by now. I knew him 20 years ago and he must have been 80 then. He lied about his age to get into the Navy during WWII. He eventually made it into a group he called "scouts and raiders" which eventually became what we know as the Seals today. We both liked to stay at the range after hours when it was quiet and shoot. You could hear the sound of your shots echo through the canyons and off of the mountains like thunder off in the distance. He liked to tell stories about when he was in Burma or some place in North Africa or about when he was working on the 25 mm Bushmaster for the DOD at Aberdeen. Calvin was probably the most disciplined shooter that I have ever been around. He kept meticulous notes. He would shoot the same couple of .38 revolvers every week. He would wheel off the exact distance, shoot, then pencil in the distance and load data on every target, every single time. I wish I would have spent more time learning from old Calvin.

[@mattohio4307]

Fortunecookie, I've been doing this for years using 44 Russian loads in 44 special brass, 44 special loads in 44 magnum brass and 38 special loads in 357 mag brass. Advantages are no crud ring buildup from using shorter brass, no need to purchase the shorter brass and the extra efficiency from loading shorter overall length for a specific velocity makes for a quieter load with less muzzle blast. I've used taper crimp dies (same type of crimp on autoloader cartridges) to crimp over the bullet shoulder. I run these loads in lever action rifles shooting them single shot mode, works well for plinking and target fun

[@TehBr0]

We shoot tonnes of this load in Australia for the WA1500 PPC match, and it is a proven competition load with match barreled revolvers usually achieving

[@reloader7sixtwo]

Another good use of 38 Special cases if you have a 357 Mag. revolver is to take advantage of the second crimp groove on the Lyman 358156 and load the bullet long using med. 357 magnum charges. It was one of Skeeter Skeltons favorite bullets and load combinations when 357 Mag. brass was not readily available back in the day.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Reloader 7sixtwo - All these just adds to the versatility of the 38 Spl. - a cartridge for the ages... Best Regards, Steve

[@tele1311]

Very interesting concept…. I love it. It’s amazing how every time I come to your channel I find something new and I’ve been reloading for 20 years.😮 fortune cookie, you are a treasure chest of knowledge and new ideas, for the shooting and reloading community.

[@mpccenturion]

I have to agree! Great idea! For 40 yrs I have loaded low to max loads - off the 38 pile of cartridges and played with depth. For the last 10 I have had a Chrony so I have an idea where my loads are shooting. I must Thank both you and Svein! Cheers!

[@WHEELGUNNER1]

35 caliber 1/4" hard fiber wads seated under bullet to normal depth solves all problems with uniformity, leading, and feeding-adjust powder charge to compensate.

[@hardball107]

I shoot a lot of 38/357 and I do mean a lot. Used to be 45acp in my old IPSC days but now it's PPC and 38 Special. I like to use all my 357 cases that have split necks and trim them down to 38 Special Length. I load a hand cast and powder coated Lee 358-140-SWC over (Don't try this at home, work up YOUR own loads slowly) 3.5gr of Unique for right around 800fps. I seat the bullet to 38S&W COL and check it with a 0-1" mike. I have gone as low as 3gr and as high as 4gr but I like the recoil and accuracy of the 3.5gr charge and it doesn't beat up the brass. Not only that but I like the fact I'm using throw away brass, a half charge of powder for a normal load and scrap lead for the bullets. I have a Dillon SDB set up to run this load and shoot well over a thousand a year, it's one of my favorites and cheaper than 22LR.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Ken Fischmann - Glad to hear that PPC is still being done. Currently, no PPC matches being shot in the East Bay Area of CA. Contiinued good shooting to you... Best Regards, Steve

[@hardball107]

@@FortuneCookie45LC Thanks Steve. Currently in Upstate NY there are a couple large clubs that cater to the handgun crowd and they run their own matches, one in Fulton and one in Rochester. Many people really like these matches because of the challenge of a revolver and the absence of race guns. Much fun had by all and please keep up the great video's. Just bought a Taurus 856 Defender UL a month ago, headed out to the range presently to run another 200 rounds of 38 Special thru her.

[@HobbiesHobo]

More good stuff FC! Always looking forward to your videos, Seasons Greetings to You. Mike.

[@DummyRound]

Now I don't have to wait for my specials to crack before cutting them down to shorts. Thanks for sharing, Mr. Cookie 👍👊🇺🇸

[@codyjenn8785]

This is a pretty awesome video thank you

[@michaltab688]

Interesting concept, It will be interesting to see how the tests turn out, I once wanted to do the same with WC rounds in 357 cases

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

MT - Did the range test and the rounds shoot fine - as accurate as any regular ammo. And the light bullet makes for low recoil - can even go as low as 2.4 grains of BE powder with good results. Have a great day, Steve

[@michaltab688]

@@FortuneCookie45LC thanks, i have to try it out

[@Steve-tu3ow]

Very common in Australia for 25 yard service match and WA1500 match. Many shooter just use 38 short colt rounds I. Their .38s/.357 revolvers.

[@blygutta8280]

The same in Norway :) Using this bullet for revolver and spesial revolver in competition. Near by everyone uses this bullet for the low recoil and good pressision on targets up to about 50 meters.

[@patv1271]

Great video. Love your channel.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Pat V - Thank you for taking the time to post comment, Pat..!! Best Regards, Steve

[@raystevens1458]

Would be interesting what a chronograph would show on both ways of reloading.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

RS - Already range tested and chronoed those loadds - They are very credible and useful. Best Regards, Steve

[@johnhale9686]

Very interesting . I was surprised by the bullet seating method and the depth. I would like to see some range tests of different calibers. Great video Steve

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

John - Already did the range test with good results - and added to the data from Svein ( the SDS concept loads have been used extensively in Scandinavian action pistol events already ). I have found that you can go with 2.4 grains of BE powder instead of 2.6 grains. I've also loaded up some 45 Colt SDS loads - have not tested them as of yet. Have a great day, Steve

[@johnhale9686]

@@FortuneCookie45LC Seems like you always have something that a long time reloader can learn new tricks.

[@gavindonnelly4767]

Great idea. I have a S&W model 52, This is a great option for shooting bullets other than 148 HBWC. I will have to give it a try.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

GD - That 52 is a fine pistol. It was the out of the box alternative to the 45 ACP for NRA Bullseye shooting pre 70s. Good shootin' to ya, Steve

[@gavindonnelly4767]

Thanks for the reply. Off topic - do you have any experience with aluminum gas checks. Loading for my 454 Casull 325 gr gas check mold. Casting this bullet in pure linotype at 1,200. Smacks bowling pins off the table like nothing else.😊

[@bucky3181]

Excellent video. Very interesting.

[@pkplith]

WOW that’s a great idea to save on powder,and to have a first timer to shoot 👍🎄

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Patrick Plith - Yes, the loads work well, shoot well...and save powder... Best to ya, Steve

[@wannabe4668]

Makes sense why Svein uses Vhita Vouri powder, his name suggests he is from that area. I have used their powders before they work fine. Having different powders to choose from is like having different bullets to choose to load from. Variety is the spice of life

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Wannabe - Indeed, and variety means versatility, the trademark of the 38 Spl. Best Regards, Steve

[@andrewmontreal]

I just finished a batch of .38 spl`s I love shooting them

[@johnmccrea8106]

Thank you sir for this video. I can’t wait to try it out.

[@misiomor]

This is indeed an interesting concept - to reduce the volume under the bullet, getting rid of the black powder legacy of .38 Special - arriving at an equivalent of ".380 Auto Rim". Less superfluous case volume, more "effective barrel length" within the same external dimensions of the gun. There are drawbacks however. The bullet will hit the "step" in the chamber at a significant velocity, especially when fired in a .357 Mag revolver. There is a different approach to get the charge weight down, while maintaining an efficient burn in a long case - use a fast burning low bulk density shotgun powder like Clays. In Europe there is also Vectan Ba10 powder. It burns insanely well at low charge weights and pressures - no unburnt kernels at 2.5gn under a 358-125-RF, seated normally in a .357 Mag case. Some Cowboy Action shooters go even lower, with lighter bullets. The powder has a low bulk density, about 7.5gn/ccm (123gn/cu in) and small cylindrical grains, metering surprisingly well in Lee Auto Drum. It is single base and thus burns very clean. The only downsides are bad load data (very chaotic in terms of powders available for a specific bullet, they don’t even specify things like COL or test barrel length) and poor performance of its slower burning siblings - the slower the worse.

[@lawrencehudson9939]

Many years ago I had a Walther GSP in#@ S&W Long. The only bullet I could get a mold for was the RCBS 88 grain wadcutter. For this bullet to feed in the Walther you have to seat the bullet below the case mouth. I loaded the rounds with 2 grains of Bullseye. They worked fine in the semi-auto.

[@blygutta8280]

I think you mean 84gn WC :) I have a GSP in 32 long, and the only 2 moulds i know about from RCBS is 84gn and 98gn in the WC style. 84gn is a hard mould to get this days.....but one of the best for the GSP sized .314.

[@lawrencehudson9939]

@@blygutta8280 My bad I just looked and it is 84

[@64samsky]

Awesome video Steve, I can't wait to try it!

[@ddhh6552]

Thar is a genius way to save powder. It's amazing to think that you could get over 2500 rounds from one pound of powder. It would be interesting to see you do this with 45lc too and also some range tests

[@fjb4932]

.45.....Colt.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

DD HH - Already loaded some of those 45 Colts up - just have to make it to the range... Best Regards, Steve

[@ddhh6552]

@@FortuneCookie45LC You are awesome. I can't wait to watch

[@noahmercy-mann4323]

I will say that having loaded several different calibers with bullets seated below the case mouth, accuracy can be very poor and leading atrocious. With certain cases, the walls start to thicken where the base of the bullet ends up, sizing it down. If the alloy is too hard to allow the bullet to obturate back to full diameter upon firing, it may fail to grab the rifling well or enter the forcing cone at an angle (poor accuracy), and propellent gasses can work up the sides resulting in heavy lead deposits. I have actually had great results with muzzleloader balls in loads like this, or flat-base cast bullets soft enough to be easily notched with a fingernail.

[@mario3804]

That’s interesting you’re becoming a mad scientist, hope all is well.

[@russellkeeling4387]

I learned to make black powder and cast some bullets and loaded my .38 special with them. The loads were very accurate but I think the bullets were traveling at a brisk walk.

[@DoktorPaj]

Those Lee 105gr SWC work great in 9x19 too if you seat them deep and load conservatively.

[@TheSuburban15]

Revolver rounds have a crimp to keep inertia from pulling the bullet out of the case under recoil. You're now relying entirely on friction between the bullet and the inside of the case to hold it in place. It's probably safe, but you may see large SDs and poor accuracy, especially with mixed brass, unless I'm missing something.

[@khester7397]

Good point, but also consider, these are relatively VERY low recoil rounds. Still, "neck tension" is a critical consideration and youre wise to think of it. Thank you for the food for thought.

[@SDMacMan]

If you ever tried pulling a loaded bullet with a hammer puller, you'd know that it takes a lot of inertia to move it. Even without a crimp. I doubt he will even come close with an 800 fps round.

[@chipsterb4946]

I thought the same thing - no crimp could be a problem in terms of accuracy. The bullet won’t walk out far enough to jam into the forcing cone and lock up you gun, but what if you have a powder that behaves badly when ignited in too large a space relative to the amount of powder? Some powders have very specific % of case volume limits you should not go below.

[@blackhawk7r221]

@@chipsterb4946 Pretty much 296/110 in a nutshell

[@chipsterb4946]

@@blackhawk7r221 yes those are what first come to mind; however, I’m pretty sure that there are minimum recommended density figures for some other powders as well.

[@l.a.3887]

Very interesting I would love to see a testing video on these cartridges thank you sir for the video keep them coming 👍 😀

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

L.A. - I did that video and it is up as a video exclusive to the Patreon site. However, the conclusion of the tests basically was that the load performed the same as regular seated 105 SWC but only requiring 2.4 grains of BE powder instead of 2.8 grains. Plus the cases were very clean after shooting - 100% obturation with SDs less than 10. FPS depended on barrellength. Best Regards, Steve

[@gonzogriff]

Makes me wonder if a duplex of light bullets would be possible with this style

[@nickjm37fordel1]

Hey Steve, loading 38 sp is on e of my favorite rounds to load. I shoot Cowboy so you can see why. Use the 125grn when practicing and the 125grn for the matches. I use the Lee 38/357 dies, the RCBS are to expensive for just Cowboy shooting ! (Amazon RCBS Cowboy's in 38SP $100.00). Have a great Christmas with the family :-))

[@Prepare2Survive]

That's a really neat way to save gun powder, but because primers are so expensive now I'm more interested in being efficient with the use of primers instead of efficient with the use of powder. That means I'm mainly loading ammo for the more powerful options. Instead of using small primers for 380acp, 9mm, 40sw or 38 special I'm only using them for 357 mag and 357 sig because those calibers produce more energy with each small primer than the other calibers produce. When it comes to large pistol primers instead of using them for 45acp and 44 special I'm only using them for 44 magnum because I get more energy with each one of those primers in that caliber. I'm essentially trying to use primers to their full potential in terms of what kinetic energy is achieved because I feel like I'm wasting their potential using them for down loaded ammo or weaker calibers.

[@fjb4932]

"Penny wise, pound foolish." . . .

[@Prepare2Survive]

@@fjb4932 How's that when I already have plenty of powder, but limited primers?

[@motorgearhead]

Let’s see, I go to the range & run through 50 rounds of 9mm like a forethought. Or I go shoot 25 rounds of 300 grn 454 Casull and I feel like I’ve had a good range outing. The point, I’ve burned 25 small primers and feel like I’ve been to the range vs burning 50 rounds of 9mm and don’t feel likes I’ve done anything other than warm up for another box. I get your point…. Others may not but that’s ok. Go burn as much powder & primers as you want. Actually this is why I switched over to big bore air rifles about 2 yrs ago. I don’t even have to burn powder or pop primers anymore unless I want too. My newest air rifle makes power comparable to a 180 grn 10mm factory load. So, Ralphie, be careful kid or you’ll shoot your head off… Here’s a link to my testing a 405 grn slug 457 Texan CF - 640+ FPE Lee 405 Power & Accuracy Test - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rae2h2Ssjd6ooNk

[@Don.E.63]

@@motorgearhead love them texans, im in the airgun crowd too, nothing big bore yet, do you cast your own for it? I was looking at one of the aea 9mm/.357 and cast my own slugs, take care.

[@motorgearhead]

@@Don.E.63 - yep I cast exclusively for Texan in .308 & the .457. However NSA makes very good slugs

[@scottscheuerman6170]

I remember a guy I new when I shooting handgun league and he was loading 38 special just like you are doing with bullseye powder and a 148 wadcutter and seating them halfway down the case and very little powder

[@Miguelperaza-c7v]

Aren't the + P cases a little thicker? I figure the higher pressures will buldge the bottom of the case in a regular 38 special case 😮

[@frankbollotino2270]

What is the advantage over the wad cutter bullet with 3 grains of vitavori? Or 2.. 8 grains ?

[@fredkilian4049]

I have found that too light a charge with too light a bullet will not expand the case enough upon firing and the gases come back at you. Not good, check the fowling around the case after firing then increase pressure or bullet weight or both till it seals in the chamber. I use 3 grains of Bulls Eye with 105 Grain SWC seated normally.

[@thecainer64]

Very good information! Please let us know how it worked out for you. Could we use the Lee universal case expander to seat the bullets?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

PatriotPreacher - Yes, you could - but of course, the tapered Lee expander would flare the case mouth if the bullet were seated past a certain point. Should be OK though. Best to ya, Steve

[@thecainer64]

@@FortuneCookie45LC Thank you Steve for everything you do. I appreciate you answers. Merry Christmas. Chris

[@skipmaloney2126]

With the bullet not being held in position by a crimp, would you be concerned about bullet movement within the case causing issues with consistent velocities?

[@blygutta8280]

That is not a problem at all. In Norway this is a standard load for low recoil in " revolver felt" shooting. Revolver felt shooting is one way to competeet here. I use the same load but seat the bullet flush to the casemouth....and using 3gn of Vitavouri 310 powder. Using the Lee 105gn SWC and that load also give a good pressision using a smith revolver on 25 meters. I use a model 14. But i recomending using bullets with coat.... Hi-Tec/Powdercoat.

[@ironmonkey1512]

you don't need a crimp to build pressure same as 9mm because the reduced case volume

[@bluescatreimer]

Interesting, it would be good to see how they shoot.

[@rustybayonet1664]

There is a Colt Target Pistol, 1911 style, that uses a 38 special wad cutter, seated flush with the case mouth.

[@dr.fidelius2905]

He’s sure. A very rare and wonderful handgun for the centerfire portion of the now old style outdoor pistol competition. Love to have one.

[@dr.fidelius2905]

@@echosdad2 No correction needed, just an old guy relying on memory. If memory is accurate, pistolsmith Jim Clark made the first 1911 .38 Specials for centerfire competition; I think like other 1911s, these were locked breech guns. Later Colt sensed a market but simplified the gun with a rigid barrel operating via simple blow-back. Recently saw one selling on gunbroker for $2,500.

[@markanderson1009]

I saw an article in an old gun mag , it was a 38 with 6 or 8 flat , round projectiles . Like a wad cutter .

[@SilntObsvr]

I've seen several variations of that concept over the years. Two or even three 0000 (.360) buckshot/round ball, very short nesting cones (probably what you're recalling), shortened double-end wadcutters (first lube groove, or even two of the three milled off a common 148 grain mold) -- common to all was a bullet no heavier than round ball, of diameter that still engages rifling, and loaded in quantity that mimics a heavier single bullet in the barrel. Given that none of the multiple projectiles shoot to point of aim, I'm not sure what the point is (especially in today's world where using handloads for defense is legally a Bad Idea, more so if they don't just mimic a factory load), but they've been around for half a century or longer. Buck and ball and multi-ball were used in muskets as far back as the 17th century.

[@markanderson1009]

@@SilntObsvr no sir , discs. 6 to 8 . Say 1959 or 60 , American Rifleman . Some that lasted from my dad .

[@knallis.hjemmelading]

Jeg regner med at Svein Arne er norsk ,I normally use Vita V N310 or N-340, this a great round for plinking aswell as for training shooting techniques for new shooters 🇳🇴🇺🇸🇳🇴 I seat the bullet so the tip of the bullet is aligning with the brass then I use a light roll crimp

[@blygutta8280]

Jeg kjenner ikke igjen navnet på noen jeg har sett på listene i mitt område, men han må jo være Norsk :) Og jeg gjør akkurat det samme som det utenom krympen til slutt. Den har ingen virkning så lenge kula er satt så langt nedi hylsa.....som jeg vet om. I en 38 spesial pistol så ville den hatt en funksjon :)

[@G1951-w1y]

How are pressures? Any signs? Have you chronographs them?

[@larrythompson7802]

Have you used these in a lever action with no cycling issues? Are you involved in the CAS here in the PNW?

[@tomsherwood4650]

Tell you what, if you ever load the old .38 Smith and Wesson, such as the 145 grain or the 200 grain bullets, that short case does not have alot of wasted space left inside!

[@russhayes4882]

That was great stuff !

[@franksimpson9039]

how about just loading the 105`s backwards like wadcutters to reduce powder space ?? seems like less trouble --------

[@blygutta8280]

I think the pressision on a target may be poor.....with the bullet this way you get good pressision. But interesting thing to just try. I have tryed this with 32 Long bullets, but the results of that was a dead end.

[@gman77gas]

😉

[@White000Crow]

How would this reduce powder space?

[@samuel-JF1981]

May be really not great for cicling on lever actions... But would work very quietly in a suppressed one!

[@steveshooter9010]

Interesting! Recently I have considered loading some 115 gr RN .355 coated bullets and seating them flush like a wadcutter after turning them around backwards. My reasoning is similar to what is described here except that I am comparing the load data for the shorter cased 9mm. Also, I like shooting .38 special but have lots of these 115gr 355's. Yes, I know they won't be as accurate as .357 bullets but for target practice at 10 yards, I would like to test them out. I'm not suggesting that this is a great idea; just asking for opinions/suggestions.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Steve Shooter - I recall an old article I read where cast bullets were loaded backwards to behave like WCs. The bullets weren't as accurate as WCs, but at shorter ranges, there is no matter. Certainly, you could shoot those safely with the appropriate powder charges.. Best to ya, Steve

[@steveshooter9010]

@@FortuneCookie45LC Thanks., Steve! That's what I thought but it's always good to get the opinion of a more experienced reloader like yourself, Sir! Also, one of your other followers suggested we could try the deep seated bullet technique with lighter loads in 45 LC cases so, I may try that also.

[@steveshooter9010]

@@FortuneCookie45LC I tried it with coated lead bullets. Great accuracy @ 7-10 yards.

[@USAACbrat]

I load 125g Berry's, in 38 special cases to 38 long colt length for use in BP replicas. The same load works more accurately with Hornady 148 HBWC. My 28-2 shoots it too.

[@univalve1]

i have loaded 38 Wad cutters and of course they set flush. i use 2.8 grains of WST, so 2500 rounds per lb. i have never worried about the minimal powder in the big case. i have never seen any caution about it, and have never had any delay fire or squibs. 45 LC much the same way with about 6.2 grains of titegroup. the 45 is a with a 250 gr flat nose a lot of empty space in those rounds and i have been able to plink away with them all day long. no doubt this method will work as well, just dont know if the effort buys you anything. BTW, the 45 LC has a stand dev of 7-8 fps. so titegrop doesnt seem to caer

[@dougreid2351]

Wow! Thanks.

[@KBell119]

I don't see it as a powder saving benefit. I load 158gr SWC's, at standard seating depth, with charges ranging from 2.5 to 3.5 all the time. It seems more of a saving lead benefit from my perspective. Nice to know though.

[@jesseboutdoors]

Interesting 🤔. Those rounds look weird but if they work that’s good info 👍

[@NormanPOlt]

Since Bullseye is such an efficient, fast powder (and also inexpen$ive), going to the old standard for the 148gr wadcutter load of 2.7gr (or a bit more) and just loading that 105gr bullet flush to the case mouth might also be a practical alternative...? Too bad you've not released the actual velocities recorded with your load as described in the video as insufficient velocity could result in a squib! P.S. I also noticed there was no lube on those lead bullets: was that intentional or inadvertent?

[@jamesr.simmons5510]

He tumble lubed them with Alox.

[@4d4Spl]

I've loaded up a mess of those bullets in specials. The girls love 'em, clean holes in paper. Believe it or not, I also got them to run in the original LCP.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

4d4Spl - Yes, indeed, you have hit on it... Best to ya, Steve

[@danielswartz6818]

Range Results Please???😢

[@rogerehinger6694]

I'll be watching for the range results, not too sure it's what I want to do. Still want to see the results.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

RE - The range test is posted on the Patreon 3 Circles site - results were positive. Let's just say that Svein showed me his own test results which were fine so that some Scandinavian action shooters use this concept in their matches. The real advantage of the SDS loads is WC type ammo with low recoil using about 1/2 grain less powder per shot. Best to ya, Steve

[@sharpandloud3422]

It seems to me that bullet tension is going to be considerably tighter. The next expander plug isn’t designed to reach that far down where the bullet is being seated to. Additionally, you’re reducing the case capacity considerably. I realize it probably “works” but honestly why fix what ain’t broke?

[@livincincy4498]

Somebody will complain about the brass swadging down their bullet to the inside diameter of the brass. This will cause leading. Then accuracy issues. This is worse than a Lee FCD... Then somebody will bring up full wadcutters ... ( pops popcorn ) As always, thanks for the video !!

[@reloadernorway1042]

I use this bullet (110grain) with 1,9 - 2,1 grain vihtavuori N-310. Bullet flush with the case. Less crimp than you used. Target at 25 meter.(27,34 yards)

[@johnblood3731]

Leadbulletsforlife isdoinga series on 38long and short colt RightNow.

[@happymark1805]

Well I thought about cutting the 38sp case down to the size of a 9mm one and using them like that with the charge of a 9mm

[@White000Crow]

I wouldn’t do this since the 9mm loads are almost double the pressure of the 38 special. Even if you are shooting it out of a 357 there is a risk that someone may put this in their 38 and try to shoot it.

[@happymark1805]

@@White000Crow I use a GP100 so that would not be a problem

[@White000Crow]

@@happymark1805 as long as there is no risk in it getting into someone else’s 38 special. I’ve heard a few stories of this happening. I have a 38/44 that can take some hot rounds and my old Ruger Blackhawk but I dare not load anything hotter then saami for the sake that others may shoot my reloads.

[@happymark1805]

@@White000Crow my reloads are for me only

[@bigseddo4036]

Thats very common is Europe and Australia. There is a match called WA1500 (international) and NRA Service Match (Australia) that doenst have a power factor. My loads range between 2.4gr-2.6gr WST with a 100gr SWC 2.5mm (0.1") into the case. I can achieve sub 2" groups at 50y with them.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Big Seddo - I really appreciate your adding these valuable comments to our discussions... US shooters have always been told that deep seating was the road to disaster. But not so - we can learn a lot from our shooting brothers across the pond East and West.... Best to ya, Steve

[@goranmalnar5172]

Can you do that in 44mag casees to imitate load for 44 special or even 44 russian???

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Goran Malnar - Absolutely, this deep seating works very well for standard velocity loadings. We save powder getting that. Not for hot loads though. Best Regards, Steve

[@NotAffiliated]

I want to do essentially the same thing but with .357 magnum brass instead of .38 special brass, in order to reduce cleaning chores at the end of the day.

[@wannabe4668]

I don’t recall seeing any Dillon products in your videos. Do you use their reloading equipment? If not than why ?

[@chestnutlouie4709]

Because the Fortune Cookie uses Lee. I have couple of Dillon presses. They are the cats meow!

[@45-70Guy]

@fortunecookie45lc I am just starting loading some 38/357 for a rossi lever action. Specifically a Lyman 358156 bullet. The seating depths do not match that in the books but the only way to allow to cycle In the lever action is to use the first crimp groove, about .050” deeper. What are your experiences with this billet design and seating depth?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

45-70 Guy - You have the old Thompson bullet design mold with the two crimp grooves. That was a very popular cast bullet back in the day. I believe Skeeter Skelton liked that cast bullet. I use the Lee 158 SWC TL which is the corollary to the 358156. The Lee bullet has the advantage that any of the small lube grooves can be used as a crimping groove. And powder coated, the bullet is fine. Lever guns do not do well with wadcutter ammo, and the SDS loads handle and feed just like wadcutters. Personally, my Rossi and Winchester lever guns like RNFPs and TCs - they don't like WCs. Some lever guns in 357 caliber work best with the longer rounds. My own Rossi 92 and Win 94 like 357s and 38s. If I were shooting Cowboy Action, I'd use the 95 grain Lee RNFP bullet in 38 Special cases loaded normally - feed very well in my lever guns and SAs. I would use my Rossi 92 for CAS. If I were shooting PPC, I might very well go with the 95 grain SDS load for the 7 yard rapid fire stage (lower recoil = more X rings = more PPC trophies in class - gotta rack up the Xs there) and then go with my trusty 148 WCs for any of the 15, 25 and 50 yard stages of PPC or extended PPC competitions. Brings back fond memories of PPC. Have a great day, Steve

[@45-70Guy]

Thanks for the advice. I have been using RN for both my 357 and 44’s in lever guns with great success but have been trying to get some of the wad cutter and Keith bullets to interchange with my revolvers. I have some photos of some cases I’d like to show you I think you will find them interesting, do you have a contact source I can send them to you? These specific cases I was having problems with were used and also nickel plated ( I prefer brass ). Thanks again

[@45-70Guy]

Thanks for the advice. I have been using RN for both my 357 and 44’s in lever guns with great success but have been trying to get some of the wad cutter and Keith bullets to interchange with my revolvers. I have some photos of some cases I’d like to show you I think you will find them interesting, do you have a contact source I can send them to you? These specific cases I was having problems with were used and also nickel plated ( I prefer brass ). Thanks again

[@45-70Guy]

Thanks for the advice. I have been using RN for both my 357 and 44’s in lever guns with great success but have been trying to get some of the wad cutter and Keith bullets to interchange with my revolvers. I have some photos of some cases I’d like to show you I think you will find them interesting, do you have a contact source I can send them to you? These specific cases I was having problems with were used and also nickel plated ( I prefer brass ). Thanks again

[@45-70Guy]

Thanks for the advice. I have been using RN for both my 357 and 44’s in lever guns with great success but have been trying to get some of the wad cutter and Keith bullets to interchange with my revolvers. I have some photos of some cases I’d like to show you I think you will find them interesting, do you have a contact source I can send them to you? These specific cases I was having problems with were used and also nickel plated ( I prefer brass ). Thanks again

[@666toysoldier]

I used .38/200 load data to make 2-bullet loads using 60 grain and 130 grain bullets. Accuracy wasn't great.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

666toysoldier - Duplex loads as you mention are a whole different subject. I've found that duplex loads can be very accurate out to 15 yards with one bullet on POA and the other close by. I once let another shooter, Mark, try duplex loads in 44 Mag cases at the range. He took out nearly the whole ten ring with six shots. Best to ya, Steve

[@BB_46]

Nice

[@cdarrinford]

I just posted a video where I do this WITH 45lc and 45GAP Data

[@jakeoutdoors9600]

Funny you mentioned the M1895 revolver. I have on and while funky to shoot it is fun. At the start of the pandemic I bought several 1092 round spam cans of 7.62x38R for the revolver as it was the only ammo that was affordable. I still have the cans but it seems the few that are for sale are extremely overpriced. One can on GB is bid up to $650. I am not a fan of the commercial stuff it is not load as hot and it is not as accurate.

[@johnblood3731]

All of cookies videos are worth at least two viewings.

[@peggyjorgensen3263]

I have two of the 1895 revolvers. A single action and a single/double action. I have done something similar in 45 Colt using a 452 round ball and Red Dot. They shot well. Some of the loads were lite enough that you could watch the ball go to the target. I will have to try something like what you are doing. I will use 357 cases to avoid lead between case mouth and end of chamber using 38 special cases. I will try using 9mm bullets. A small game load for revolvers. Sent from my wife's phone.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Peggy Jorgensen - You've already been into this...concepts are valid. We do need to avoid going so low with fps that bullets may stick in our barrels...Avoidance of barrel obstructions is still critical policy for our shooting... I'm sure that you know this already, but others may just need to have this policy reinforced. Best to ya, Steve

[@adamlong54]

158grn max powder charge for me.

[@normangiven6436]

I see you are using wadcutter brass. 38Spl brass is thicker than that and it will swell the case and not chamber at all. Zero 148gr wadcutters are tapered at the skirt to compensate for the thicker 38Spl brass. There is a difference in the brass.

[@woogy1131]

Great economy. What grips are you using on that Black Hawk? The look comfortable. Doesn't everyone just love that sound of case SNICK?

[@robertskidmore3571]

Good ,

[@you_dont_know_me6583]

Man i bet thats dirty with bullseye

[@pilgrimm23]

Great Idea. No I have not tried that with 38 but I do have a Nagant and many gun shows back I saw a guy with older exotic ammo and bought 5 boxes of the weird Russian ammo from him. It shoots well but alas is not reloadable.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Grey Pilgrim - Plus, all the supplies of surplus ammo for that Nagant have long dried up. You still have a historic specimen there... and congrats on having that. Best Regards, Steve

[@mckwilly]

Good morning west coast 🌻

[@gvet47]

There is no advantage to seating the bullet that deep. Small charges of that fast burning powder are just fine seated at a normal death. Even a standard primer will ignite that powder to where you will never tell the difference.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Galen - After range shooting and chronographing, the only difference is the saving of about .3 - .4 grains of powder per shot. I'm sensing that overall SD would also be lower because of the more efficient burn space, but much more data would have to be assembled to really make that a definite conclusion. Certainly, these types of loads defy normal seating recommendations. But those recommendations are based on regular powder charges where the bullet is seated deeper by accident. Here, we are loading proper powder charges for the case volumn being controlled by the deeper seating. At any rate, there is effort to say that these loads are superior...I would not load heavier bullets seated deep as heavier bullets in the 38 Short Colt are also not practical. Best Regards, Steve

[@danielswartz6818]

No target results

[@gman77gas]

Seems simular to wad cutter loads...but I would think they will tumble and keyhole the target

[@The_Conspiracy_Analyst]

why do this

[@markanderson1009]

Oh and try a 9mm bullet in 38 ......

[@T30-z5w]

Ok now shoot them and compare the accuracy to conventional loading. The normal convention is to reduce bullet jump to ease into primary engraving. Test this and see if this has any adverse effects on accuracy.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

T30 - Tested and chronographed these loads at the range (that video is exclusive to the Patreon site, but the results are reported as follows). The loads shot as well as if loaded to equal fps in regular configuration. These types of loadings have been used in action competition in Scandinavia with reports of lower recoil and good performance matching regular ammo. The point of this video was to show that our 38s are even more versatile than previously presented. Have a great day, Steve

[@v.t.powell8273]

15mg of Sodium is wayyyy too much for .38s! lol

[@mediumjumbo7484]

2.9g bull and seat flush for a good wannabe wadcutter load ;)

[@johnniecameron8829]

Sounds like a bad idea

[@fjb4932]

So does marriage, yet . . . they keep doing it . , .

[@khester7397]

You da man, Fortunecookie45LC. Very interesting concept, i may load some 44 special cases to load 44 russian powder charges.

[@NotJOE420]

This gives me an idea to use 357 brass with 38 load data, with the projectile loaded deeper. So basically a 38spl loaded in a 357 case. The lengths of both are only off by a small bit, I bet the projectile won’t even sit below the case rim.

[@Miguelperaza-c7v]

I really love .38 specials and I hate Lady Ga - Ga!