Innovative Tom Mics That Eliminate The Need For Gating! Lauten Audio LS-308 & LS-208

[@AvanteTard]

These seems like instant must haves. Your channel is proving to be one of the best. Thanks for honesty, non-clickbait titles, and practical feedback/information. You are an absolute champion.

[@RecordingStudioLoser]

These are fantastic. The 208 has been a surprisingly great kick in. Really great on guitar cabs too. Those 308 are wild on amps on a loud stage. The bleed control makes me giggle. Used them live on a grand piano on a really loud stage next to a drum kit. Took careful placement but wow.

[@CreativeMindsAudio]

Fascinating! reminds me of the lewitt mic with lasers for vocals and speech. love this tech innovation!

[@lordmarco]

Ok imma need you to come over to my house and just set up the mics for my kit man 😂😅 you're a genius man. Love your videos. Been watching for YEARS

[@simondanielssonmusic]

That chart is a really smart idea! Love that!

[@ALLforROME]

Right on! 🎉 I need these in my life 🥁

[@FVDaudio]

Fantastic mics... But very well done everything else !! The source, the room and the hitting. Open drums at the middle distance miking. Sounds so good.

[@stevendierkes6028]

I love that you’re sticking to the chart.

[@kniferideaudio]

LDC out front of kick about a fot or two has been my go to forever

[@tekis0]

Impressive demonstration.

[@philippgrunert8776]

From listening and comparing I Always prefer the sound of condensers on toms from some distance, sounds more realistic. But the bleed... This may actually solve that issue

[@TheGarageRecordingSC]

Great video!! I’ve been eyeballing these for a while, but the price is probably with scares everybody away. I think starting with the 208 on snare would probably be the biggest improvement for most people because no matter what you do you’ve always got so much high hat in the snare mic. I’ll probably pick up a 208 eventually, especially since it could be used for other things as well.

[@andriskissproducer]

Their mics are on my list. 😁 Nice video as always. 🤘

[@Rubenvalente20]

we just bought the Lauten Tom Mics at the studio. Crushes everything in sound and in bleed. D2, D4, Warm 47Jr, MD421. It was better than all of those.

[@dilankarun9172]

The Lauten's cost about 150% more than some of the mics you mentioned & 300% more than a SM57 So yes, they should be better at helping guys like me who aren't professional audio engineer's😛 Someone like Flood Ellis can make Larry Mullen Jr's drums sing with an SM57 (Just listen to the Joshua Tree Album). But that takes talent & know how.😉

[@Rubenvalente20]

@@dilankarun9172 Yeah. For sure skills count more than equipment. still, I dont think he had much of a choice back then. 😅😅😅 and honestly, with the comparisons I made, You would never chose a 57 not the others I mentioned over the Tom Mics (Sound wise). On the price part: Yes and no. SE V7 has been dominating the market with a price more competitive than SM58. rivaling beta58’s and more expensive thing. Just saying that because, I dont think the price matters. Just whats offered and the sound result. Unless it is a 1000€ diference and the sound result is 1-2%.

[@efmchale]

So are you saying he mic'd the toms on Joshua Tree, with 57's?

[@dilankarun9172]

@@efmchale I was referring to the snare in comparison to the Lauten Snare Mic. He also used a SM57 for snare on Actung Baby.Not saying the whole kit was mic'd with 57's. Shure SM57's was used for rack toms and snare, Electro-voice RE10 on the hi-hat and AKG D190's & Sennheiser 421's for the kick and the floor toms. They also mention Neuman's on the kick drum (Didn't mention which one's). I personally prefer the Audix i5 or the even better sE v7x (same price as a SM57) I don't think they were around back then 😛. Let's not forget Michael Jackson used a SM58 for his Thriller Album ☺

[@dilankarun9172]

@@Rubenvalente20 Agree, I love the sE's .

[@gaetanclybouw]

I know everyone hypes these but I still love 421 on toms with ssl gates, never had any problems

[@BizzleBotTube]

When you’re doing the Toms in and out what I hear is a slight brightness added to the snare when the toms are mixed in. But it could just be a completely imagined sound.

[@AlexProkDrums]

Wow this is awesome, thank you for sharing this test and your knowledge. Love your chanel brother)

[@ryanjohnson1590]

HIGHLY intriguing...

[@sandodo7768]

Thanks for all the info! What about the 208 on voices and other instruments?

[@Driftwoodaudiocornwall]

I think this is a fantastic video and I love the depth you've gone into here! Can I be really boring and ask for a comparison between the two sounds over a much shorter loop of audio so we can compare the exact same hits with and without the changes in future videos? Awesome work as always, man! P.S. I really enjoy the tuning of those toms!

[@DonnTarris]

In a live venue where the band changes every gig, drummers' setups are varied to an extent that placement of closer mics will differ with every setup. For this reason, I've settled on using a stereo overhead (a Rode) and a "front" kick mic (drum sometimes has a full front head, sometimes not) as the main pickup, and then place a "floor tom side" and "snare side" mic (Advanced Audio 1084) that are placed to give me more control for those areas of the kit. I usually do a true compression of the overheads at 2:1, keying it from the lower volume playing and then adjusting the ratio depending on the dynamic range of the drummer. The drums tend to carry in the room acoustically, so sometimes I'm just trying to add presence and clarity to the attacks. Nothing is gated. As for large diaphragm mics vs small, the pattern itself is more important. A Sennheiser e965 is a large diaphragm vocal mic for live performance, only slightly larger than an SM58, but much better sounding than the 58. Onboard HPF, pad and dual pattern are switchable. In a studio setting, where one isn't having to be concerned with feedback, I would suggest trying closely placed omni mics as an alternative, on the drums and not cymbals, and then see what a single or couple of overhead mics would add. Why omni - because the bleed wouldn't be coloured, no proximity effect. If the mics are close to the sound sources, then bleed would be minimal to begin with. Try it, you might like it...

[@1shannonleggette]

Great video. I’m a fan of the mics. Do not own any yet though.

[@Ted_Swayinghill]

I have the snare mic I love it so much.

[@urbanhellhole]

Great Video! Love the comparisons! Wonder how they stack up against the new Snare and Tom mics from Lauten

[@jeracravo]

I am impressed! Thanks for the video!

[@fleshtonegolem]

Damn those are SWEET! I can see how useful this would be for a guitar/vocal combo in an X/Y stereo type configuration vertically oriented.. I usually use two ribbon mics for that because of their great off axis rejection. The issue I have is how dark they usually are, but having a large diaphragms frequency response would be SO interesting because I have never done that without an obnoxious gate involved.

[@marclewism]

Less edit more natural😮

[@samwerrell2104]

Since the Snare and Tom mic came out. What made you choose the larger body versions of those mics instead of the newer models?

[@BrianSimmons]

I think the difference in the harshness/smoothness of cymbal bleed is in large part because of the rolloff at 7k. If you added a low pass filter at 7k with the audix mic, I bet your results would be very similar. The cymbals bled wouldn't be as harsh when rolled off at 7k.

[@RasBuyaka]

Once upon a time you made a video where you mentioned needing a different mic and technique for Flint's voice. I don't remember if you went very in-depth at the time, i think maybe it was something you mentioned in passing. I've been looking for that video, as i have a similar very raspy singing voice. Would you be willing to revisit the topic? Or if you can remember which vid that was in, I'd love a reminder.

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah for him it was “Use a dark mic”. A ribbon worked really well for him. At the time I had a Rode NTR and a AEA R88 that worked well for him. An AEA R84 would be the same. You might be able to try the Beyerdynamic M201 which is a dynamic but also kinda dark. SM7B worked well for him too but the ribbon was way better. For eq, I’d do a tilt EQ, like was ProQ3 has or use a Pultec style EQ plugin. Big broad moves and nothing too pointed. Thanks for the cool comment. I can tell you’ve been around for a while to have known about Flint!

[@RasBuyaka]

@@creativesoundlab been here a looong time, friend, maybe 2017 or so? From right when i started learning, i clicked with your practical methodology. Glad to see you back at it with fresh eyes and ears. Thanks for the tips, and helping me form my philosophy from ground up!

[@huberttorzewski]

Sounds great! Unfortunately the price is the obstacle for me

[@siriusfun]

Huh? They're in the same price range as RE 20, sm7b etc. Just a slight bit more but orders of magnitude better.

[@huberttorzewski]

@@siriusfun but you need at least 4 of them for drums, that's an issue

[@alexbreyer6921]

Buying one at a time is still effective.

[@NathanSummers11]

Do you prefer the Lauten on Toms or the Soyuz 013s?

[@frbrty12]

The only thing I found was that, these mics are dark, so the minute you start adding some EQ to brighten up the attack... whoops, there's that cymbal again.

[@zyxwvut4740]

I know this is a _studio_ recording channel, but how do you think they would work in a live setting, such as an arena or something?

[@alexbreyer6921]

Same idea applies. The overheads are setting up your overall tone of the kit, and these specific mics are adding body and reinforcement to punch the sound through with less bleed from other sources. Especially in tight situations with a crowded stage, it's probably working better for live than even the studio.

Great job! 🔥

[@poipoipoicromo]

Thanks

[@louderthangod]

I’m very interested in these. Gating though is never needed…it’s a choice and I think a bad choice most of the time. The best drums I’ve ever heard are the ones I heard when standing in the room with the drummer. My ears don’t gate the cymbals. I’m also pro-whole band tracking in the room together (yes with their amps in that same room) and letting it all bleed. It’s all about setting things up to use that ambience to your advantage. The best thing about music is the live feel, trying to take that out of a recording is both bizarre to me and way too much work to get a lesser product (in my opinion). If you’re going to go to the effort of gating everything then you might as well use sample replacement or just straight up use Superior Drummer or let AI make the song for you.

[@theVomitorium]

Maybe even adjust it at the musician. ?

[@legacyShredder1]

Dude these are some of my favorite mics on the market right now, and they're reasonable enough in price for the extreme quality and flexibility. Lauten is without a doubt my favorite mic company. I've got at least 4 pairs of the LS-308's in each of my tracking rooms for top and bottom toms, and within the last month I picked up 4 pairs of the brand new Tom Mic from Lauten to compare with the 308. In my primary studio I'm finding the LS-308 on topside toms and the new Tom Mic on the bottom to be the best combo for me in that room. LS-308 for the superior rejection on top and the Tom Mic on the bottom because it has more tonal shaping options directly on the mic that better captures the tone of the drums. (Tom Mic still has good rejection, but the LS-308 has better rejection.) I don't know if you own the Lauten Audio FC-357 Clarion, but it's the best outside kick mic I've ever heard. The closest thing I've found is an $8,000 Wunder mic, but I still prefer the Clarion. A pair of the FC-387 Atlantis mics on overheads and or room is one of the most record ready sounds I've ever captured, and I own all the famous go-to big brand mics out there.

[@BeatsAndMeats]

I have a million questions as these mics have intrigued me for awhile now! 1. Would you say that the Tom Mic sounds BETTER than the LS-308, but the 308 has better rejection? 2. How would you compare each one to other mics that you've used before? 3. Do you end us using things like Saturn 2 or Black Salt Audio Silencer to totally eliminate cymbal bleed? 4. What genres of music are you usually tracking these days?

[@legacyShredder1]

​@@BeatsAndMeats 1. I won't say the Tom Mic sound better, but they're more flexible with the extra boosts, cuts, and pads that can help. They're smaller and easy to place on kits with a ton of cymbals, hardware, and accessories. However I still love the sound of the LS-308 on top and they need only a gentle top end shelf boost in some but not all sessions. I record top and bottom toms in pretty much all tracking sessions with only a few exceptions, and I think the Tom Mic is ultimate in that role. However, I wouldn't be sad if I only had the Tom Mic in a session. Their rejection is still great. The beauty of a condenser on toms is that you don't have to record the bottom head to get a huge full range capture of the drum, so you can easily get away with 1 topside mic and have a wonderful drum track. I should also add that I have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to microphones so I am spoiled. Understand that I only nitpick between these two microphones because I can. In any situation either the LS-308 or the Tom Mic will preform admirably. 2. I own or have used pretty much everything on toms you could imagine from U67/U87's, 251's, to the old school 421 and a ton of other purpose built tom mics like those from Audix and Earthworks. Unless I'm recording the best of the best session drummer (like Steve Gadd where I could get away with a 251 or quality LDC Neumann) who has ultimate volume control of the kit, the LS-308 & Tom Mic are my absolute number 1 picks. Nothing else compares in my opinion. The sound quality and tonal quality plus rejection creates an instant usable commercial drum track. If I had to compare either LS-308 or Tom Mic to a specific microphone it would probably be a Josephson e22S, except the Lauten's are slightly rolled off on the top end and the Josephson doesn't have the extreme rejection. 3. I will only gate if the toms are going to be absolutely crushed with a super fast compressor like a diode bridge or a bunch of 1176's. If I'm doing a really tight hardcore metal drum track I will gate, but that's kind of out of habit more than needing to. You just reminded me to stop doing that. 4. I record everything from classical orchestra to bluegrass, country and western, to pop, rock, metal, and death metal. Edit: If you have more questions I'll answer them.

[@legacyShredder1]

@@BeatsAndMeats I had a chance to check out some of your drum videos. I've gotta ask.. Why all the Audix D6's on the toms? Those are designed to scoop out the mid range while boosting the extreme top end and bottom end. You definitely need those mids on toms.

[@BeatsAndMeats]

@@legacyShredder1 Great... now I'm gonna have to get one to try out haha! It sounds like they're great, all-around genre-agnostic tom mics. I have a studio where I track drums only, all different forms of metal, whether its me doing session work or other metal drummers who can play my kit. I've had the most success using CAD M179s, D6s, and now Shure Beta 98s on all my toms. I think the D6s actually sounded the best but the bleed on them is pretty harsh. The M179s sound fantastic but they really need to be pretty far away from the drums to get the clarity on the attack, and I have a rather "intricate" setup which makes it impossible to use on the rack toms. And the Beta 98s are so small and easy to position, with good but not great bleed rejection and a surprisingly nice low end, unlike the Earthworks DM20s which I found to be way too thin sounding. I've never gotten to use the Josephson mics, but boy oh boy do I wish that I could. But my kit has 6 toms so that would be like $10k to outfit the entire kit, and if the Lauten mics can get real close to that sound for 1/4 the price, that sounds pretty sweet! Do you have a go-to positioning for the 308s on your toms? And do they maintain clarity when you have them pretty close to the toms?

[@legacyShredder1]

@@BeatsAndMeats Genre can change how close or far I put the mic. I saw your videos with the melodic metal. For that I would have them 3-5 inches away from the rim with the capsule overshooting the point of impact of the stick by a couple inches. So if you're hitting in the middle of the head with the stick I'd have the capsule point an inch or two past that. The LS-308's should be light years better than a D6 on toms. A D6 is way too scooped for a tom, and the bleed with cymbals is going to be extremely harsh. It misses too much body of the drum.

[@artysanmobile]

I have 45 years experience as a live recording engineer and producer of live broadcasts for major networks and labels. As such, I feel I should speak to some of the issues you pose here. 1. Large diaphragm = large bleed is not true. Proof? I’ve made award winning recordings using a C414ULS on lead vocal with rock band instrumentation. For choir recording with a hard rocking soul band I have used AKG C460 as well as C414EB and personally heard the difference in bleed to occasionally favor the 414. The larger diaphragm microphone will often have lower rear pickup, especially about 200Hz. 2. Regarding the drum kit, placement is everything. If the drummer is knowledgeable, they will set a kit accordingly. If not, tough luck! The overheads will be far more important than one might wish. We all know a mic a half inch from any drum sounds like dogsh!t. Proof for that is right here in your video while soloing the drums to show Lauten’s new mics. Doctoring it with gates, eq, compressor, second eq to approximate what’s lost by close-micing is a waste of time, and typically sounds even worse. The bottom line is placement and reality check. Will there be hat in other kit mics? Will the toms be full of snare? The answers are duh, yes. Does extreme radical processing fix those problems? Almost never. That input sheet full of drums is not the law. There are ways to get a great drum sound and they almost invariably mean fewer and better microphones with far better placement, and/or use of micro-delays to match arrival times. If, for reasons beyond your control you must place tom mics that sound bad, use them as attack-only pickup, delayed to meet the overheads where the sound is great. Have a candid conversation with the drummer. Let them know it’s all up to how hard they play their cymbals that determines how good you can make their instrument sound.

[@impulseproman]

Nice mic mix more edit less

[@semilumi]

Or maybe even: Record faster, mix less! :D

[@impulseproman]

I agree ​@@semilumi

[@cheater00]

ok so i'm watching this video about mic technique and i'm thinking "man this guy's voice is mic'd and mixed reeeeally badly" listening to the AC pumping up and down while he talks