Crimewatch UK - London Murders 1988-1994

[@swiftlydoesit8480]

The reconstructions back then were really detailed and chillingly realistic, putting you at the scene of the crimes. These days they're over edited, hazy, obscure and dull.

[@mikh84]

The way Nick Ross narrated the reconstructions gave them a bit of a chill as well I thought.

[@ifaiful]

swiftlydoesit absolutely. Here on crime watch cheap really was cheerful. Very difficult to watch now, I can’t stand the “solved dramatisations “ and don’t know how long it will continue with Jeremy vine.

[@mikh84]

It was on the BBC news Tuesday morning that they will only be making the morning Crimewatch Roadshow instead of the evening programme due to falling viewing figures & I have just Googled it & it says it has lost viewers to Coldfeet of all f*cking things.Can`t stand that programme.

[@ifaiful]

Mike Hutch oh dear. This maybe the death of crime watch as a whole.

[@bascet1]

They used real,proper actors back then. Bulick is an actor who's in The Firm with Gary Oldman. Now they use wannabe whopper actors who overact badly.

[@misscritique84]

When Nick Ross used to say " Don't Have Nightmares" I did because the reconstructions were so good.

[@ajs41]

I started watching this show when I was about 8 years old. I was both scared and not scared at the same time, if you know what I mean. Scared on a superficial level but I didn't let it affect me too much.

[@misscritique84]

@@ajs41 Yes I get you

[@cathmeir]

Totally agree with “Don’t have nightmares”. Yes right! Used to shit me right up.

[@Emma-pg8yd]

Also that little drum beat after he says that....😕

[@denmark786]

We need to all start a petition to bring back CW , confirmed the shows axed and only the morning roadshow crap will continue

denmark786 Agreed

[@rutter1ify]

Agreed 💯 think it was axed around October 2017.

[@jamesfretwell1511]

denmark786 yes this should happen.

[@dazauto1400]

it had had its day 10 years before it ended. let it go guys. the heyday was 1984 to around 1997.

[@Stesiaanna7]

It wouldn't be the same, reality TV had ruined how they make shows now

[@coccinelle80]

The re-enactors on this show are amazing!! Unlike the fake, untalented ones on America’s Most Wanted or Unsolved Mysteries

[@coccinelle80]

Anthony Mcken AMW and Unsolved Mysteries were great shows, but the re-enactments could never hold a candle to Crimewatch, or even Aktenzeichen XY

[@noongourfain]

so true

[@LikeKools]

@@coccinelle80not true. They just had a different style to them to match the cases and American tastes. I’ve seen AMW with shootouts that stand up to early John Woo films and car chases of Hollywood caliber. I’d say crime watch had better acting and sometimes better music but even some of the performances on AMW and Unsolved were pretty good for a weekly television show

[@SirApexTV-official]

Larry sounded like a really lovely man what a loss of life ♡ rip Larry buddy ♡

[@IanP1963]

28 years to the day this year - Feb 2022

[@IMP1963]

30 years in Feb 2024 - RIP Larry !!!@@IanP1963

[@denmark786]

Great to see these compilations well done, amazing all these london murders are still unsolved !

[@zeddeka]

The Bulic Forsythe murder has been full of rumour and speculation for many years. It's said that he was aware of child abuse and wider sexual abuse going on at Lambeth council and was killed the silence him.

[@Maz-zb9uf]

I was just about to comment on the same thing

[@deanstanley5799]

The gay scene seemed very seedy back then !

[@Excecutioner147]

I remember watching these when they first aired when I was a kid. Derick Kiley can't seem to find any info. Jean Bradley is suspected to be a victim of Robert Napper. Michael Williams case is very strange

[@futureisgosub]

The actor who plays Derick in the reconstruction is Phil Rowlands

[@JC-ss7xy]

Ive always thought Napper killed Jean Bradley. The EFit fits him perfectly = gaunt and tall. And a similar MO. Id guess the police know its him but with him unlikely to be released itd unlikely and unfortunate the police will not investigate further.

[@zeddeka]

The Michael Williams case one of a very long series of murders of gay / bisexual men. Looks very much like he was cruising for sex and came across one of the violent criminals that used to frequent those places, knowing that victims often wouldn't report the crimes and police usually wouldn't be interested (especially back then when they were notoriously homophobic). In recent years we've seen similar events with the likes of serial killer Stephen Port, where police initially dismissed his victims as drug addicts.

[@MissRandomwriter]

Wow, that carpenter in the last case was such a brave and decent guy. I don't think there are many people who would chase a man a mile and a half, having been threatened with a weapon by him. The victim was a stranger to him, and I guess he didn't know he was chasing a murderer... who he SO nearly caught. I bet it haunts him that that murderer he was chasing has never been caught... and also that he nearly prevented the stabbing of Jean, if only he'd spotted her a few seconds earlier. If I'm ever attacked, I hope their is a hero-carpenter like him around to help me!

[@scallopohare9431]

Ahem. Props to the older woman who went outside to look around after hearing a scream.

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Very brave bloke.

[@jblack5323]

The actor who played Derek Kiley, I thought I knew him from something else. He was the chap who worked in arcade with Roland in the Grangehill episodes.

[@gemzw9251]

they are all unsolved oh how i wish it was still that era! i could off done my husband in:-)

[@robertmcintyre4653]

gem w lol i know how u feel hahaha

[@rutter1ify]

Gem W 😂

[@carmt7328]

Soooooo funny the good old days b4 DNA lol.

[@IGKMrNice1973]

Gemz W 😂😂😂

[@dawnb3194]

😆

[@tjc89]

Someone needs to interview DI David Michael, Detective Bob Fenton and a few other detectives in these unsolved murders to ascertain how they came unstuck.

[@heraclitus9152]

poor larry ):

[@suzannehaigh4281]

I have always been puzzled why they ended this program when it was so popular and so successful.

[@tarquin4592]

The reason? Remember the rogue’s gallery of suspects and wanted felons? That should jog your memory.

[@suzannehaigh4281]

@@tarquin4592 I did wonder if that was it, but to take such a popular program off all together instead of just removing the gallery or for a change leaving it and being honest, but that is not WOKE is it?

[@ababble1245]

@@suzannehaigh4281 oh zip it you absolute boomers

[@zeddeka]

It was originally cancelled because people stopped watching. The viewing figures went through the floor. But it's been back on TV for years now in the mornings. But it's very different because crime is very different now. Most of the crimes shown in the 1980s / 1990s would be solved very quickly now with no need to appeal to the public like they had to then.

[@zeddeka]

​@@suzannehaigh4281?? It's been back on TV for years in the mornings. There's always a lot of stupid old racists in these comments saying it was taken off years ago because it was full of ethnic minorities. Bollocks. It was taken off because people stopped watching. It is back on now but it's very different, because crime is very different. Most of the crimes they showed during the 80s and 90s either don't happen now or would be very easily solved now, so no need for an appeal to the public. Today's episodes focus more on the types of crime that happen now - things like online fraud.

[@lee70687]

Just read about the Paviours pub Michael Williams had his post work drinks in. Shame it was demolished.

[@OrangeSapphire-dm6rm]

Ramsgate is a horrible,nasty place with some vicious individuals there

[@jasonantigua6825]

Plw

[@jasonantigua6825]

Please tell more

[@OrangeSapphire-dm6rm]

@@jasonantigua6825 My son and myself were attacked in a pub called the Albert years ago for no reason and I accidently left one of my carrier bags which they apparently threw out in the road

[@Maz-zb9uf]

​​@@OrangeSapphire-dm6rmblood hell hope you guys are OK its was the same where I grow up in Stone bridge (Northwest London ) the area was know for violence

[@OrangeSapphire-dm6rm]

@@Maz-zb9uf Thanks , I didn't live there but did go there a few times years ago but never again

[@laurajones8526]

Tragically Larry Burts killer was never tracked down it seems such a shame no parents i hope he does not get forgotten he seemed a very kind and genuine man

[@Peter-ix1ym]

Makes me very sad Laura

[@labazs1964]

@@Peter-ix1ym the forgotten people sadly

[@Peter-ix1ym]

You’re right, London has changed a lot since then also

[@laurajones8526]

@@Peter-ix1ym the whole world is chainging and not for the better sadly i feel sorry for my grandchildren and the world they have to cope with

[@Peter-ix1ym]

Hopefully things will improve, wishing yourself and family well

[@smithy828]

RIP Derick kiley X

[@lcb-]

Brilliant reconstructions

[@markdavidson9100]

The actor playing Bulic has appeared in one foot in the grave and desmonds

[@gabriellaj.o.6180]

So many of these cases are not solved. So wrong including poor Mcihael. I feel for the families. 32 years is a life time. That's 32 years someone got off scot free. No justice at all. The person who killed Jean Bradley looks like he had either a drug or alcohol or severe mental health problem. How awful none of these people have been caught. I hope all of the people who did this are caught and brought to justice. It just goes to show life is too short. Live your life to the full. I never thought London was unsafe then but that was then.

[@MissRandomwriter]

Gabriella J. - Regarding London being safe/unsafe; This is five murders that happened over the course of six years. I'm not saying more didn't happen during that period, but nowadays, I don't even bother to read the stories of stabbings, shootings, acid-attacks, rapes, etc, etc, that happen EVERY DAMN DAY! Back then, murder (even in London) was notable, it was NEWS; nowadays, it's more interesting when a cat gets stuck up a tree than are the countless murders. I feel a bit odd saying London was 'safer' back then... but I think luck was more on our side - You were SO less likely to run into anyone who wanted to do you harm, there were so many less 'baddies' about. I don't want to get political or offend anyone, but I think there are some very obvious reasons (...not just one) that London (and the rest of Britain) is now filled with violent criminals, compared to 1988.

[@gabriellaj.o.6180]

@MissRandomwriter. You are probably right. I now live in Kent and it's violent there and I grew up in Kent as a child. Times change as you get older.

[@MissRandomwriter]

@@gabriellaj.o.6180 - I've had connections with Kent since childhood as well! When I was a child, it really did feel like 'The Garden of England'! There were the 'nice' towns (like Tunbridge Wells), 'ok' towns (like Ashford), and then the 'rough' towns (like Chatham)... which actually weren't all that rough, just less pretty! Now, the 'rough' towns are no-go areas, the 'ok' ones are not far behind, and all the little villages and countryside are being ploughed up by motorways and housing estates! I think Kent is becoming just an extension of London. In fact, I heard a year or so ago that someone in Maidstone was stabbed to death by gang members who'd come down from London. I miss the old days!

[@gabriellaj.o.6180]

@@MissRandomwriter I know and I agree with you. Yes, all of Kent is pretty rough these days. Chatham has always been rough. Haven't been to Medway for 7 years and even Thanet not nice. My world has got smaller as I am getting older sad isn't it what we have become as a nation.

Loved CW UK especially the murders. when i watched it in the eighties and early nineties it was really gritty and creepy..! London based murders were the best as London was the place to be wasn't it..

[@tarquin4592]

Why, oh why did they stop making ‘Crimewatch?’ We all know the answer don’t we; if you’re not sure, just look at the rogue’s gallery they used to show.

[@tauresattauresa7137]

Dna can be got now surely, from the scarf in the first case.

[@09weenic]

Possibly but the killers DNA may not be on the database

[@thejupiter1744]

All that handling of the blue scarf but still today surely there could be DNA on it?

[@IanP1963]

It was one similar to the original on CW - they stated that specifically !!!!

[@simonspibey]

Did they find Larry's killer ?

[@bluetownbarry]

Simon Spibey sadly Larry’s murder remains unsolved

[@michaelpout4798]

Larry sounded like a lovey bloke shame no body knows what happened to him

[@paulslade1000]

I worked with Larry for a number of years and he was very community minded and helped a lot of people and doesn't deserve some of the inappropriate comments on here!

[@IanP1963]

@@paulslade1000 Interesting Paul. I've written to various community and art societies in Ramsgate to see if any of his art was put on exhibition or kept/stored after his death. I think he deserves a tribute to him in Ramsgate like a plaque, art work, sculpture, or bench named after him, or something anyway. I am adopted too and can understand Larry's predicament having his real and adoptive parents deceased. He needs to be remembered in longitude so that's why I think something to remember him by in Ramsgate would be a good idea.

[@IanP1963]

@@paulslade1000 I wonder if they'll ever DNA that scarf or open the case again ?

[@Peter-ix1ym]

Ian just read your message did anything come of this? Did you do anything for Larry? I’d like to help if I can

[@IMP1963]

Nothing came of this sadly, but.....[Merry Christmas]@@Peter-ix1ym

[@tharealmikezee3165]

"this case has homosexual connotations" lol okay

[@tristanmorgan852]

Lol connotations sounds like something posh people say when it's sexy time

[@RoyalWatcher1985]

What would cause a man to stand frozen, immobile, and not reacting to a barking dog?

[@geoffgoodyear1084]

Arlene Heed looks like black ops to me ... demons in human form.that run the government named archon sodomite saturn bell wotshipers

[@oliprj8676]

Drugs

[@ajs41]

@@oliprj8676 Yes, drugs obviously. The most likely thing that happened in my opinion is the victim went to the woods for a gay encounter, and then afterwards the other man demanded money to pay for drugs he wanted to buy in future when his current supply ran out. Michael Williams refused to give him any money because he was just there for the sexual encounter, and in revenge the other man, who was a karate expert, killed him with a blow to the neck. Then he took some of the drugs that he still had with him, which is why he was seen standing like that in the park. It also explains why he recklessly remained in position near the body. He only did that because he was under the influence of drugs, otherwise he would have got as far away as possible from the body to avoid being associated with it. Even today it shouldn't be too difficult to find a karate expert who matched the description of the zombie-like man. I wonder why he hasn't been caught yet. He may have escaped by shaving off his beard and moving to a foreign country like Thailand for instance immediately after the murder because he knew he'd be recognised in the UK otherwise.

[@MissRandomwriter]

Possibly being shit scared of the dog! Some people would freeze in terror if an alsation ran up to them and started barking at them!

[@scallopohare9431]

Actually, that is the best way to deal with an aggressive dog.

[@Traceishere]

so did they ever find the killer of derek kiley??????

[@futureisgosub]

I can't find any record of it being solved or not

[@iloveyouhunny]

Not yet

[@tashakiley857]

trace d derek kiley was infact my grandad (dads dad) very littl eto do with that side of family but as far as im aware this is still unsolved all these years later and i was only a baby at the time.

[@jamesfretwell1511]

Tasha Kiley must be weird watching reconstruction of your grandads around the murder. I hope they find the person who took him from you and your family.

[@annamarietatum1629]

They don't mention the son Derek Kiley had with his girlfriend that died. Derek was murdered the day before the boy's 1st birthday. He was left an orphan.

[@scallopohare9431]

Social Services paid well enough to buy a Rolex watch?

[@Maz-zb9uf]

Social workers get well and don't there

[@RachaelClarkeClarke]

Did any body get done for Michael's killer ?

[@laurajones8526]

michael williams killer was never found though he was a family man as was said he was bisexual and there was the possibility he had met a man either at the scene of his murder or on the way then was dumped there

[@09weenic]

Eh that’s what the leading detective just said😂

[@Paul-mq5yn]

He'd never play for yorkshire

[@tristanmorgan852]

He could play rugby 🏉

[@BruceDanton-xw6eg]

Not nice at all.

[@09weenic]

Derek Kiley - possible drug dealer that fell foul of someone?

[@IMP1963]

Not convinced - sorry !!!!

[@o.wildfarmer8023]

T.s.34:the brother is the one!

[@meyergaelle8108]

3 men coming out russian agents 😂😂🤣

[@fhurley8447]

Wasn’t Larry a nonce? Those are the rumours I heard

[@futureisgosub]

He was a friend of Dorothy's

[@fhurley8447]

@@futureisgosub Ahh, makes sense

[@IanP1963]

So what ?

[@09weenic]

Don’t think so - but as they say in Scotland - ‘he liked the boaby’

[@JockStrop]

If its a gay man it won't get the same budget from the police as certain other people. Maybe different now but so sad. RIP to these men.

[@shahid1296ify]

How can the Jean Bradley be an unsloved murder? Fair dues to the guy trying to catch him , But how the fuck did he let that one go? I mean seriously, adrenaline rushes in and you catch up . Trip the guy over hold him down and get help . others saw the situation too. Unbelievable

[@zeddeka]

They believe that her murderer was the notorious killed Robert Napper. Excellent article here about it: www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/robert-napper-serial-killer-forgot-18603812

[@shahid1296ify]

@@zeddeka Thank you. I'll take a read of this 👍

[@shahid1296ify]

@@zeddeka Certainly sounds like it was Napper

[@tristanmorgan852]

@@zeddeka they think he's done a lot more but he's in prison now and he was locked up before they would take your dna and now he has the right not to give his dna. The girl who was murdered on a train in 1988 is believed to be his murder they have blood from the killer and can't confirm its him

[@HooDie-Trench-GoTh2022]

@@zeddeka yes it was napper . He was wearing a Kombat US Army Military Jungle Boonie Sun Bush Hat Rip Stop - Special Forces that were worn by the special forces in Vietnam. Napper was a Vietnam fanatic. He thought he was a special forces man . He wasn't wearing a Sylvester hat at all. 6ft three and always wore that cream coloured Parker jacket. Black trousers and white phantom addias trainers . The bag recovered at the scene where he wrapped the knife with looks uncannily like a shop in Woolwich at the ferry end. They sold bongs and incense sticks but also antique knifes and weird shit . Some thing he'd buy probably.

[@stevenmitchell8793]

What makes me laugh is every murder they want everybody to get in touch, the killer is not going to get in touch. Didn't they have CCTV or other means of solving these murders?

[@MissRandomwriter]

You can laugh... but Crimewatch was hugely successful, would get 100s of responses every episode, and was crucial in a lot of cases that would never have been solved otherwise. No, they didn't expect the killer to get in touch... but rather people who may have seen the victims shortly before their deaths, but knew nothing of what happened to them/only remembered seeing them when they saw the report/reconstruction (i.e. did anyone notice Michael Williams on a nearly empty train that night? Did he get off at Highgate or East Finchley? Did he speak to anyone casually about a change of plans?). And... erm.. this was 1988-1994; no, 'they' didn't have CCTV (it was in it's infancy/very expensive/very bulky/poor quality), and I'm guessing 'yes', they did have 'other' means of solving crime, but this was one very effective tool. If you find Crimewatch so 'funny', I suggest you watch something else instead. I'm guessing you are below the age of 20, yes?

[@MariaMaria-wv1sy]

Why don't the cops catch the criminals micro chipping people without their consent or knowledge to read their minds.