76. Is solar power sufficient for a canal narrowboat in an English winter?

[@kevinkevin624]

Ok, I cannot figure out why I am watching all of your videos?? I'm in the States, near no canals, I own no boat of any kind and do not plan on getting one. You're presentation is just that entertaining...so, I'm hooked!

[@CruisingTheCut]

Haha thank you!

[@kevinkevin624]

No, thank you Sir! Keep up the good work, you're providing a really unique perspective.

[@afringedweller]

@@CruisingTheCut - me too! I'm in interior British Columbia, and have watched a bunch of your vids. I'm now thinking of watching them all. I did love the one on Christmas day, when Gary cooked the turkey. I love them all. I love how honest you are, and you're lots of fun without being a goof. Well done!

[@CruisingTheCut]

@afringedweller Thank you!

[@suecox2308]

I feel the same! No boat, no canals, but a growing conviction that I've made the wrong life choices!

[@squidgyquijabo2422]

Greetings from sunny (usually, but not lately) southern California! I've been watching your videos for over a year and I've totally become a youtube gongoozler. We have hundreds if not thousands of people in the live-aboard lifestyle on sailboats in our marinas, but the open ocean terrifies me. Seeing this serene canal system you have snaking through scenic countrysides of England is great and I'm thankful to you for showing it to me. I showed a friend one of your cruising videos & explained that this canal system runs throughout your country, he exclaimed, "It's like a Disneyland ride!".

[@CruisingTheCut]

What - no sun in southern California?!! Outrageous. I'm pleased you enjoy the videos, cheers!

[@for.tax.reasons]

I really like how you tackle some of these questions methodically so that others can apply the same concepts to their own needs. I almost always zone out out someone starts calculations but this was such an interesting video!

[@MrDanSouth]

We recently moored directly opposite a boat that was sporting two wind turbines, one at each end. The howling noise at 2am was enough for us to move 100m up the towpath in the morning! :D

[@CruisingTheCut]

Lovely...

[@gregorycaiazzo9736]

Thank you for the vlog. I always appreciate the fact that anytime you deal with a subject you do it thoroughly and in a very understandable manner. I appreciate that. Keep up the good work.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Thank you, that's a kind compliment!

[@writerconsidered]

Well the outcome is as expected. How do you do in spring and summer?

[@CruisingTheCut]

No probs spring to autumn.

[@tronalpha2552]

In my expieriance, i have concluded four problems that are prerment in living off the grid as it is often called. the first problem is the rate of discharge from the battery bank is allways higher then the chargeing rate from the solar panels. The second problem is there are only around 5 hours of charging time from after 9 in the morning when the sun is start going above the horizon and to 3 in the afternoon when the afternoon when the sun drops below the horison. the third problem is weather, what weather condions you have has an effect on the solar panle. The fourth problem is how often do you clean the panles. The panles do get grotty from dust in the air, maybe some soot from the cbimminy bird crap, ectra. I try to clean mine at least once a week. There is quite a bit off up keep as i call it on an boat any boat regardless where we are in the world. Gerard on readybaron. happy holidays and merry christmas.

[@flat4314]

I have a friend that lives on a boat on a river. he built a underwater turbine that produces 20 to 40 amps constantly in the river current.

[@CruisingTheCut]

That's quite impressive

[@schirmeyerb]

flat 4 ....??..not possible....less

[@billharris6886]

Hi David, as one who has worked with practical applications of solar power for about 10 years, I wanted to share a few thoughts. As you have wisely discovered (probably the hard way), you have to account for every watt of power consumption when running from the limited supply of batteries. (Sorry if I am repeating obvious elementary information.) To begin with, back in episode 18 (solar system installation), I noticed you bought some very nice panels but, totally the wrong cell count. Then, to make matters worse, the panels were connected in series. With a 12 volt system, the preferred panel should have 36 cells and the panels should be wired in parallel. Note that the conversation efficiency gets poorer as the difference between the inverter input voltage and battery voltage get farther apart. Also, as you have already noticed, with a series connection, the solar output is proportional to the cell that receives the least amount of sun. So, with the setup you have, as a minimal cost improvement, I would recommend the parallel panel connection. Probably one of the higher watt/hour loads you have is the refrigerator. I was just curious, how is the heat removed from the unit? I am assuming the condenser coils are welded to the frig chassis and the whole unit is fitted into a galley cabinet. Is there any ventilation in said cabinet? If not, you would be raising the inside cabinet temperature and the frig would probably need to run twice as long to maintain the set temperature. A portable inverter generator would be useful to top off the batteries if it could run off the stove gas supply and be placed in a sound isolating box. Of course, that would be a sizable expense and engineering effort. Adding additional solar panels would be useful but, still fall quite short of the demand requirements during poor sun days. With solar panel output of just a few percent, you are barely covering the quiescent power draw from the power inverter. In fact, I turn off my inverter off when mains power is not required. I don't know if that is an option with your system, you also need a way to apply limited current to the inverter (such as through a small 12V incandescent light bulb) before throwing the power switch to prevent pitting the switch due to charging the large capacitor bank in the inverter.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Hi. The number of cells and voltage doesn't matter as it's going through an MPPT controller so it uses all the available power. They were in series because there are some advantages to doing so but I have since changed them to parallel as an experiment. It's usually the case that if one panel is in shade, the other probably is too so it doesn't make a lot of difference. As for the fridge, I have drilled vents in the floor right behind it so that very cool air can convect up from the bilge as the hot air escapes. The inverter draws less than 1 Amp so it's fairly low but yes I do turn it off when not in use during the day. Cheers

[@billharris6886]

@@CruisingTheCut Thanks for the response David. The MPPT controller has a circuit that constantly monitors the output power being pulled from the solar panels and is used to control panel loading to find that sweet spot where maximum panel output is achieved. However, the farther you step down (or step up) the voltage, the more loss that gets incurred. This is just the nature of the beast. Yes, the MPPT helps but, you are still stuck with that loss. Designing several DC to DC converter supplies over the years has made this (probably little known fact) evident. Wiring the solar panels in series is only useful for simplifying the wiring between the panels and solar controller. You can get by with less wires and those wires can be smaller in diameter. You are probably only wasting about 5% of your power so, it's not a huge deal. Very good on the other things I mentioned, you have obviously have been doing quite a bit of homework!

[@popuptoaster]

@@billharris6886 I disagree that series wiring is only useful for simplifying wiring, it's also useful for stepping up panel voltage for 36v systems for example.

[@davidbagley1783]

Excellent info

[@mtxict]

Another great video, Mr CTC! It is possible to survive on solar if you're willing to make a few lifestyle changes. We had a lovely winter with 200W of panels. We turned off the fridge and used colder parts of the boat for perishables (and beer, of course), and usually consumed these within a couple of days. Any meat was eaten the same day. That left LEDs, pumps, phones and laptops. We'd make sure to charge the latter in the middle of the day when the amperage was high. I think it was a particularly sunny winter (2014-15), and there were two or three times we had to run the engine when it was particularly overcast. We also chose moorings in open areas without trees around to block the sun. I admit that it's not for everyone, but we found it's doable with a good quality of life.

[@CruisingTheCut]

And a nice winter ;-)

[@karelvandervelden8819]

Here in portugal I get by similar with 150w panel and one good quality 145amp lead/accid batt in a lot more sunshine. With 4x these capacities (like CTC) I think I could get by for a few months in the north (holland). (lights and laptop) Nowadays there are better windmills too. Its all or very little with solar alone but the trick lies in our adaptive attitude. You start with zero amp needs and see how far you get instead of wanting 100 amps a day and saying its moddest.

[@CruisingTheCut]

One can equally eat toast all day and save a lot of money on food but it's not a quality of existence I'd want. Ditto power. 80Ah is indeed a modest requirement.

[@chipito25]

Once again the "Narrowboat Nerd" is in his element with all this calculating ampage/wattage/draw doobries. :-) Keep it up old chap.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Mmmm, love a bit of amperage calculation.

[@petervonhunerbein68]

If you would increase the angle of panels to 90 degrees towards the sun you may increase efficiency considerably (maybe double).

[@CruisingTheCut]

Yes but double 1 or 2 Amps is still bugger all and as explained in the video, winter in the UK is usually overcast and miserable so what little light there is - and there's not much nor many hours of it - gets diffused such that panel direction makes no difference.

[@snorttroll4379]

@@CruisingTheCut so how big of a panel does one need to cover normal needs and heating the thing given short days and overcast?

[@christopherlussenden3021]

Another very entertaining vlog CTC. Technically speaking I didn't understand a word of it, but you said it all so beautifully, that I almost felt like googling things like watts, amps and volts! I said "almost"! The lovely crisp winter's day made me want to watch it again!

[@CruisingTheCut]

Best to watch again rather than do all that googling!

[@ravarga4631]

Your canal life has what so many of us do not have, navigable water or water of any kind (west texas, australia) lush vegetation, quiet, slowpaced rural life, small towns, solitude. Plus your dry english humour and your unique presentation. Itv's loss is our gain. And now you have a van! What next? Sailing coastal britain ina small boat? Walking the towpath? International travel? we do have some canals in canada from small boat sized welland canal to ocean going vessel sized st lawrence seaway. Like to see you navigate and evaluate them and their locks.

[@willsmithorg]

I'd say your panels are only angled at 10 degrees. If the sun is 10 degrees above the horizon then the effective width of your panels is not 90cm but 90sin20=30cm. If you could angle them at 80 degrees the effectiive width would be 90sin90=90cm, or 3 times more power. So you need some taller brackets, not more panels. And of course, find a mooring where your panels will be facing South.

[@CruisingTheCut]

It isn't a simple multiple; plus as I tried to point out, in winter the sun isn't always visible due to cloud, rain etc so the light is diffuse and pointing makes no difference. As for finding winter moorings with specific alignment, that's not always so simple. The video is trying to make the point that solar in winter is limited due to lack of sun even if you do everything to maximise your panels.

[@contrafax]

I love the information you provide with good humor thank you.

[@karlfair]

Another Fine post! When I last lived off grid, it was on a sailboat in the Caribbean. We had a wind generator and the alternator off of the main engine to supply power. I had installed an alternator controller on the 55A alternator to maximize its output. The alternator could put out a continuous 35 amp's. We ran it 45 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the afternoon. Between the running the engine and wind generator, we had lighting, GPS, water pumps, 10 gallons of water per day and about 7 cubic feet of a refrigeration. But the box was very well insulated. The water maker was a bigger draw than the refrigeration. We ran the 27 hp engine at 1200 rpm, burned about .3 gal / day. At the time we couldn't afford solar. It was three times the cost that is now. If I had to do it again, the Bimini and the dodge and everywhere else, I could think of would have solar panels. All the best to you in the new year!

[@CruisingTheCut]

Thank you! Oh, you'd be well sorted for solar now I reckon.

[@xistacio]

In all this what i find ironic is the fact that in summer you can be self sufficient but at the same time it's the time of the year where you do the most cruising, and therefor use the engine to top up the battery bank.

[@Spartan-ry1hh]

Nice segment.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Thank you

[@freespeech3673]

Nice piece David. I watch your videos with interest. We have lived in a motorhome here in NZ and the solar provides a vital part of our energy. Our 700 watts have not been sufficient here in the far south, and thus furthest from the winter sun. We camp off grid 99% of the time. The Honda generator is used for about an hour a day. We arrive in the UK next month (Oct 2020) with a plan to buy a narrowboat and travel for a year or two. Very excited to say the least and hope to meet with you some day. Keep up the great work. Cheers Jim and Claire

[@pa_maj.MARTINI-van-MAN]

It's the month of July here in Northern Ireland, and hey! Grey sky's abound, and Sun; such a luxury. I concur that solar is pitiful in such conditions.

[@michaelpilling9659]

A very interesting video - thank you

[@jpaulrice]

Stunning refrigerator magnet collection !

[@CruisingTheCut]

Still space for a few more!

[@CoolerQ]

I wonder if you could easily double your solar power input with a set of mirrors. You might be able to craft something that could store underneath your panels and you can take out on the winter days when the sun is low in the sky.

[@longrider42]

Good idea, the solar array in Las Vegas uses mirrors to focus the sun light onto the collector. I dont think it would take too much work actually. Good idea.

[@idunneedachannelffs]

to be fair when it`s that cold you can switch off the fridge and use it as a storage and leave the little things that actually need refrigeration outside or somewhere cold, switch it back on when it`s warm again and by then you should also have enough sun to power everything

[@CruisingTheCut]

You can, and some do, but the temps are so darned variable. It's freezing (literally) on day and mild the next. I'd forever be switching it off and on. But agreed in principle :-)

[@CruisingTheCut]

What a palaver! And by the (late) time I get up it'll be nicely warm again :-)

[@schirmeyerb]

idunneedachannelffs ...also in my flat I should put... the food. ...at the balcon...outside...in winter

[@cassrailroad5358]

Got learning something today, love it.

[@hairypaulmm7wab195]

Solar panels also have varying temperature coefficients, which means efficiency changes with ambient temperature as well as actual light level. De-Icing panels makes a positive difference too. There are many factors that come into play that are dependent on the specific construction, location, light incident angle and connection methods used for any given panel. Your panels look like they are amorphous silicon wafer type panels, these are not the best but are relatively good considering installation cost and performance across varying levels of illumination. When calculating a solar installation I do the maths from the provided specifications but only take 80% of the calculated output figure to allow for inefficiencies of the system. It is good to see you have a relatively high efficiency mains inverter (Victron are good quality units) but even if You were to add another AS Panel (or install a larger array with higher collection efficiency) You would still struggle in winter in the UK. In the most basic terms solar panels are best thought of as 'secondary power' that helps to extend the time cycle between battery bank charges in winter rather than a primary power source. It is better to use what You can from the sun and burn less diesel (if charging from engine driven generator/alternator) or reduce Co2 emissions from power generation elsewhere when using 'shore power' from the grid for charging. One way to knock a chunk off your power use on board in cold weather would be to cook on the solid fuel stove instead of the microwave when possible as microwave ovens are horribly power hungry! :-) Even a little bit of solar power is a good thing ! Stay warm & Keep smiling! :-)

[@CruisingTheCut]

Excellent points! I do indeed heat things up on the stove - usually the kettle - but depending on how hot I have it, things can take ages and for only 5 minutes of heating, the microwave doesn't really use that much - 8Ah ish plus inverter overhead.

[@urbansnipe]

just a thing to consider when using solar panels is you have to clean them meticulously as even the slightest water residue hinders them! The more panels you have the more time you spend cleaning them :D also never wash them with a detergent for use on paintwork (car detergents) as these tend to leave a thin film designed to block UV/IR light frequencies from fading paintwork which is obviously no good for solar panels ;) distilled water and a splash of white vinegar will do the trick cheap a chips.

[@MsSomeonenew]

I have not ever heard someone go to that crazy extent, but hey some people clip their lawn with scissors... you can always go nuts with your hobbies if you are into it.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

MY uni-solar panels are unaffected by water droplets. Also, I simply dust them off or wash with water once in awhile. Its not really an issue with the right panels. Do your research before considering going solar...

[@paulie-g]

Yes, they do need to be clear to get decent performance out of them. This is why panel quality matters - decent ones come with hydrophobic coatings - and why they need to be installed at an angle. Using a removable cover you can clean separately is worthwhile as well.

[@paulie-g]

@MsSomeonenew Bad analogy. Look at performance graphs for dirty vs clean panels and you'll soon change your mind. No one says you have to do it every day, that would be a bad idea actually, but it does need doing far more often than you'd think. How often depends on how much you value your time vs getting the respective performance improvement.

[@biscuitbassbroom7306]

Nice views my wife would like to experience a English winter as we giggle between our selves lol I keep saying English winters are like bad summers compared to Canadian winters ...... Very useful video ...... For the future hopefully .....thank you. Look forward to the next one.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Yes, I suspect our winters are really rather mild in comparison!

[@fearx303]

I have 10000 watts of oper and never have a problem

[@CruisingTheCut]

I *knew* there'd be someone :-)

[@waltherr.diemel2347]

I was glad to see the cat again. 😄😄

[@CruisingTheCut]

So was I :-)

[@waynethomas5742]

I thoroughly enjoy your vlog. I’ve watched quite of them and I’m impressed how you breakdown the technical aspects of narrowboat living. I was wondering if it would be feasible to install wind generator to augment your solar panels. Thank you and much success in your endeavors.

[@CruisingTheCut]

It is feasible and some boats do but they’re costly, can be noisy, and only generate any useful power in a *really* strong breeze which you don’t necessarily get with any regularity or consistency, especially on the canals which are often tree-lined, breaking up the wind. Probably better installed as a fixed item on a mooring if you have a particularly windy location, otherwise I’d say probably not worth the money.

[@vikingsoftpaw]

I follow some homesteading channels. Even with a good solar system, the weather can get socked in for weeks. Charge at 12w per hour powers only one compact floursent bulb. A backup gen is neccessary.

[@carycoombe3380]

Where did the "Little Helper" come from? A boater, or somewhere near your mooring? Awfully friendly little monster isn't it?

[@christee2908]

I had the same problem in my campervan, not enough room on the roof for more solar energy. I hate noisy generators and so do my neighbors, so I invested in a fuel cell for the winter days. I bought an EFOY that generates enough power to charge the batteries. The EFOY is an expensive investment and methanol is also a bit expensive, but it is very quiet during use. Being self-sufficient has a price but gives me a lot of satisfaction.

[@free2roam674]

So, the solar is not enough, for sure, in the late fall/winter, otherwise it is definitely maybe enough. If a person wishes to stay in one place for a week with no shore power, what would you recommend? Running the boat diesel or getting a small shore generator? Gas or diesel generator? Thanks Cam

[@CruisingTheCut]

Many boaters just run the engine, otherwise a small petrol generator (diesel gennys are hugely expensive and tend to be installed at build time as a permanent fixture)

[@roger1189]

Portable power stations, portable batteries, charge it/them whilst cruising. Google Jackory. You can also buy portable solar panels as an add on to your existing kit.

[@CruisingTheCut]

A portable power station is no different from what the boats have already - solar, battery and charger!!! Having a portable power bank is no magic solution to insufficient power, you'd still have to charge it the same as you would the boat's batteries. In which case, buying a power station would be a total waste of money as you're just duplicating what you already have. In winter the solar would be insufficient and if you're going to use the engine to charge, it might as well charge the boat batteries 🤣 . Spend the money on diesel to run the engine!

[@jpaulrice]

On the subject of Refrigerator Magnets: If I had a P.O. Box, I would be glad to enhance your world wide collection (Florida). On the subject of respect: I I watch with great, admiration your tenacity and skills to fix and do all about the boat. As for me, if something around my place can't be fixed with two good wacks of a blunt instrument, it's beyond my doing entirely. So I continue to watch and learn. Take care.

[@CruisingTheCut]

A hammer is usually my implement of choice too! Cheers

[@zapfanzapfan]

Nice little solar panel inspector, every ship needs a ships cat :-) Was that inverter capable of delivering 16A at 230V? (Maybe I misunderstood the text). Is the battery bank big enough to handle that load? When I was looking at different inverters they recommended much bigger battery banks for that kind of load.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Yes 16A at 230V. At that time my batteries were knackered but I've got new ones just in (see recent vlog) which can easily handle that.

[@zapfanzapfan]

Yes, I saw that. I had never heard of lead carbon before, sounds interesting.

[@MikeB_UK]

At the risk of upsetting David, no. It is a Victron 12 | 1600 which means 12v 1600 watts. Watts is volts x amps, so a quick bit of maths - it can deliver a max of 6.9 amps at 230v. A 16A inverter would be a 3680 watt one.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Mea culpa, as @MikeB points out. The inverter can only deliver 16A at 230V when it's hooked up to the shoreline so it passes the mains through. Its delivery off the battery bank is as Mike explains.

[@MikeB_UK]

And I feel really bad at pointing this out. David has probably the best UK canal vlogs/info out there full of insane amounts of well researched information. He puts a ton of effort into his content and produces broadcast quality entertainment. Well done David. Bad on me for being a smart arse. Keep up the great work.

[@markellse]

This is really excellent, being clear, succinct and having all the necessary technical detail. Thank you.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@frankyboy4409]

Well you need to fix your solar panels so you can more properly tilt them towards the sun ... your panels are aimed halfway off the sun considering it is standing so low.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Even if they were tilted, which certainly does improve performance, the amount of sunny days and the number of sunny hours per day that we get in the UK in winter means very little solar. Plus a lot of the canals have extensive tree shading on either side so tilting just means you're pointing the panels at the trees. Plus unless you have fully articulated brackets, the panels only tilt port/starboard and as the canals twist and bend, the sun is not always port or starboard to your mooring. And you'd have to keep going out to adjust the tilt or use up some of the power in running an motorised system.

[@SailLife]

Fantastic video as always :) Now I'm even more excited for when I can finally install solar panels aboard Athena :)

[@CruisingTheCut]

Cheers Mads. Hey, how about making a sail out of flexible solar material? That would be awesome... ;-)

[@Dakotarain]

What did the cat think about it all?

[@andyrbush]

The reminders of how cold the UK is sends chills though me; it can be ok indoors next to the stove though. Now living in Thailand it is never cold. At 8-30 pm in April it is 87 F and will reach 96 F tomorrow. Bangkok was known as the Venice of Asia because it has so many canals. The water busses are huge and travel at up to 20 mph.

[@theheilious]

How long does it take for the engine to recharge your bank? (on average?)

[@CruisingTheCut]

Depends how discharged it is ... charging tails off the fuller the batteries get so technically they never reach 100% I think. The bank capacity was 330Ah at the time of this video and the alternator puts out 65A.

[@theheilious]

@@CruisingTheCut I am novice at solar but that works out to about 5 hours at maximum alternator output (whatever RPM that is??) to get to full charge from empty (10.5v?) and that is if your solar array output is zero? Much shorter charge times on a sunny day or when you didn't use as much? I'll have to review your energy audit in the vid again. Awesome channel, sir!

[@CruisingTheCut]

It would be longer, because of the slower charging rate as the batteries got more full but you could get a decent amount of charge into them from flat after five hours, yes. The the solar could take over and finish the job.

[@theheilious]

@@CruisingTheCut , Yes, I can see how the law of diminishing returns comes into play as fuel used vs usable C-Rate? It's like trying to fill a glass with the spigot on full? Either run at idle to push less amps or let the array finish the job at more of a "trickle" rate so you get less push back from the cell's potential? Ever run yourself out of power?

[@CruisingTheCut]

I've not run out as I'd always run the engine before that happened.

[@jengaryadventurers4603]

We learn so much in reading everyone's comments and your answers.

[@tinderboxcreations]

It's winter and you are using a fridge??? Get a simple box with a lid and stick all your food etc in that outside!

[@CruisingTheCut]

The UK winter is not reliably cold enough to ensure proper and consistent refrigeration. Today for example it was 9 degrees (C)

[@tinderboxcreations]

@@CruisingTheCut maybe but it works fine for us. Got our outdoor fridge with milk etc in a Really Useful Box from B&Q. We don't really notice much of a difference to our electric fridge. The lid locks too to keep critters out... try it.

[@juliephelps2026]

Professional delivery, visuals and audio as always. A 'cut' above! Thank you. Looking forward to the next one.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Thank you. I tried harder than usual on this one because it was a bit late :-)

[@sarcasmo57]

What is the cut?

[@CruisingTheCut]

The canals, which were cut out of the land by hand.

[@sarcasmo57]

@@CruisingTheCut Oh I see, thanks,

[@verynearlyaboutsailing8114]

Just a thought. I've lived on board now for about 18 months and I don't have a fridge. For the stuff that I really want to keep cool (milk, butter, cheese etc ), I use a 'cool' locker which is mostly under the waterline and also reasonably insulated from the warmer cabin. Not perfect - but it works for me. That could save 40ah.

[@CruisingTheCut]

I wish my boat builders had included an underfloor locker because as you say it is quite cool down there. Alas, none of the floor has been made liftable with a crowbar :-(

[@SamSitar]

modern boats should have that locker.

[@SteveMorton]

Useful for wine storage as well

[@tinderboxcreations]

Also...a microwave? We cook on our wood stove or use a gas stove. That's two massively greedy appliances you do without esp in winter.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Nah, it's only ever on for five minutes. Takes a lot but for a very short time.

[@BrassLock]

Thanks for another well researched vlog, creating interesting Q's & A's in the comments section. The Power Audit summary reminded me that I'm familiar with petrol consumption, but not electrical consumption.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Always worth doing a power audit before specifying solar! Cheers

[@LO-xf2ho]

Strange you have not yet realized that your boat needs a CAT. "CruisingTheCat" could be your next channel

[@RaphaelNation]

Add more panels. Use larger 300w panels. Build a rig. I have five 250 watt panels on my house, working my way up to 24 panels for 6kW. But I live at latitude 7 degrees north of the equator in Georgetown Guyana with 9+ hours of useful sunlight everyday.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Not much space for more, as explained. And larger panels would get in the way when I need to walk on the roof. Still wouldn't give you enough in winter for a full charge.

[@MrSheckstr]

If you don’t have the linear space for an additional solar array on your roof you could always do what a lot of “van life” people do, stack two or more panels into the same frame then have them slide apart on rails within the frame exposing the lower panels to the sunlight.

[@janisabbott1192]

Thank you for the frank and detailed assessment of solar efficiency- we were never fully convinced it made economical or practical sense. You forfeit a lot of roof space and gain a lot of maintenance for an insubstantial return when it is most needed. We have decided to take the Charles Stirling route. If you have not yet discovered him, you will find him on UK BOATING. You may have to listen to the science a few times but after the initial outlay, I think it may be more economical and efficient than the solar panels. Would welcome your comments.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Well hang on, this was purely about winter. From March to October I absolutely recommend having solar so as you never need to run the engine or a generator to top up the batteries whilst sitting moored in a lovely spot for a few days. After about two years, the installation starts paying for itself. With high capacity panels like mine, you don't lose much roof space (not that I use my roof for much anyway). So I'm very much a solar advocate.

[@SamSitar]

solar power is less intrusive than other sources.

[@stephencrowther524]

Solar panel/controllers are pretty much fit and forget,no maintenance needed,other than an occasional wipe down. They have no moving parts !

[@TonyAnschutz]

This is a great discussion on a complex problem. I think most people don't understand the basics enough and you do a great job of breaking it down. Just thinking outside the box a little. Given your 40a of fridge use daily. How about this idea? In winter you have -5 to maybe +10 degrees outside? Why not run a duct to the outside air with a small fan on it to draw the cold air from outside directly into your fridge? Small fan would draw .1 amps while operating (at night) so maybe 1.5 amp per day? During the warm summer months you could plug the duct hole on the fridge and put away the pipe. This idea would not work in the summer months but that is the time you are making more power with your panels. Essentially you are cooling a space in the fridge which is trying to stay cold inside a heated boat space? Perhaps this is more trouble than it's worth if you have easy access to shore power or don't mined running your Engine to charge batts but it sure would be a fun experiment to see if it worked?

[@CruisingTheCut]

Interesting but as 12V fridges cost about £500 new, I'm not going to find out by drilling into my existing one! Some people just stick the food in the well deck and turn the fridge off but because the temperatures are so variable, I don't like to do that. Cheers :-)

[@karelvandervelden8819]

Yes old 12 voltlaptop fans are allmost for free. And he has allready cold air in the boat but he has to dig for it. Also the magnetron he doesn''t need to use in winter if he puts the pot on the oven. There's possibly more but he has decided allready that its not possible.

[@TonyAnschutz]

I C. Not sure what a well deck is but an external container of some type might be an easier solution? Something that freezes during the night and is somewhat insulated during the day? Understand not wanting to damage your existing Fridge. I live in a warm climate so this solution would not work at all. But I do get lots of sun during 12 hours per day so the panels I have work great year round.

[@gordslater]

1:18 - if you ever refit or replace those panels, try to devise a double-hinge arrangement that allows them to lift closer to vertical for low-angle winter sun while moored in one spot for a while. Incidence angle makes a large difference in winter, in summer much less so. Also, remember to keep them clean for max efficiency, especially from large chuncks of bird muck.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Sure, angling to the sun will help but in the short winter days, with very little sun to be seen anyway (mostly rain and miserableness in the UK winter), it won't make much difference since even doubling would mean twice very little. Plus a lot of the canals are bounded by trees and shrubs so the sun isn't even visible at low elevations until it's risen.

[@gordslater]

@@CruisingTheCut yeah I'd probaby remove them for cleaning then winter storage onshore in a safe place to be fair, especially in a marina most of the winter :) Winter CCs are more likely to gain from optimising solar and DC bus tricks than summer tourers. As a electronics geek I'm thinkng more about longterm battery service life (DoD and total cycles) than just the purewattage output. Better a trickle than nowt. Much more to be gained from a good fridge (or none at all in cold snaps - gas locker & coolbag-style) I think.

[@ThisNarrowboatAdventure]

yes we run the engine for an hour every two or three days!

[@karelvandervelden8819]

To run your diesel for charging is unhealthy for a new engine (glazing the bores). With an older well run in engine its less harmfull. Best to do it when voltage is low in the morning so the alternator will be more efficient (bulk charging,more amps output). During that time I also charge my various electrical applicancies. (or you run your electric washing machine)

[@niklar55]

😊👍 You could increase your solar array, by two, by having two panels, one above the other, and then pulling the lower one out, on slides, like a drawer, and then locking it in place, whenever you need the extra charge. You could also use a gas spring, like on a car bonnet lid, to assist lifting. .

[@snorttroll4379]

smart. how many square metres is needed to live normally ? solar pv?

[@jeffharmed1616]

Thanks for sharing. You can do it if you add mirrors/reflectors in suitable places, use your gas stove rather than the microwave and sell the TV.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Yes but that's much like saying you can have enough power if you don't use much power! I do use the telly and microwave. And it's the fridge that uses the most anyway...

[@jimmcdonald9244]

Another excellent video David - your narrative beautifully delivered as ever. This Aussie contemplates your bold initiative as I sit inside my house with the air con on and 35 degrees outside. No canals or narrow boating here.....cheers mate!

[@CruisingTheCut]

Too hot! ;-) Glad you enjoyed it.

[@k9nick]

I have seen campers that have solar panels on the roof. They have additional panels that prop up next to the camper. Perhaps stow another couple down the side of the boat somewhere, when you're moored up, prop them next to the boat and plug them in to your controller Other than that, get your generator to use as top up. Perhaps additional batteries to provide more storage too.

[@cbcdesign001]

Even my household 4KW solar system can only generate a few hundred watts on a dull overcast day and that consists of 16 off 250W panels. Its difficult to get much power from Solar in winter.

[@prkally]

cool. found myself using Watt's law to see consumption of portable heater the other day? nice to see the Clangers again :)

[@CruisingTheCut]

I used to love the Clangers. I wondered if anyone would notice that :-)

[@bmolitor615]

You have so many very nice cat friends!!!

[@Ron-pi3my]

Excellent article! just thinking about installing a solar panel, don't have room for an array, just need a panel to charge batteries when not on the boat.I think your daily current draw is close to ours.

[@eyelidman09]

Thorough analysis as usual. Thanks a million!

[@CruisingTheCut]

:-)

[@richardowens9061]

I find it useful to visualize the electrical system as being hybrid - made up of both fuel powered and solar powered elements. This is not unlike a hybrid vehicle that has both a gasoline and an electric motor and systems to maximize fuel economy. They don't have enough electrical power to take you where you need to go, but they can greatly extend the range of your vehicle by reducing its gasoline consumption with supplemental battery power that has been accrued through regenerative braking. So, what solar tends to do - in your environment in the UK - is extend your fuel reserves that you're using. The more solar you get, the less you have to run your engine/generator. And, particularly with lead acid batteries, solar serves the purpose of providing current for the long absorption phase of charging where the batteries accept only a small amount of current, but need it for an extended period of time. For that reason, it makes the most sense to run your engine/generator in the morning to provide the batteries with the bulk phase of charging, then allow the solar panels to top them off and then float them, rather than having to run the engine/generator the entire time.

[@Godshole]

Bit of reality! Gold star that man.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Haha, thank you!

[@fk319fk]

The more I listen to energy options, the more I like the diesel-electric, even more so when I saw a guy who heats his boat with a "diesel stove". My wife would rather have herbs and flowers on the roof. Mind you, I will never boat, but I am considering a cabin in the woods. Solar is not an option, but I am paying attention to what runs on batteries and what runs on AC.

[@LeeB48]

I happened upon your channel as a result of a youtube suggestion. My first thought was that it had something to do with a Canal I have a close association with over the years... the Panama Canal. Since the "Cut" that I knew is a significant part the Panama Canal, so I was thinking it was a reference to the Gaillard Cut or as it is now referred to now, the Culebra Cut. As a result of the KZbin suggestions I have watched a number of your vlogs in a rather haphazard and random order. The professionalism of the videos and your ability to turn what could be considered dry subjects into something of interest hooked me and I have subscribed. Now I can watch them in a wee bit more orderly fashion! I will enjoy your adventures Cruising the Cut! Thank you for sharing. Lee

[@CruisingTheCut]

Thank you for watching! Yes, they're all numbered so the sequence should be fine :-) I hope one day I'll do a vlog at the Panama Canal, that would be amazing!

[@lostpuppy3955]

The age old question .that always came down to what you want ..oh yeah don't forget if you run your batteries down past 11 volts they will start phosphate and die real quick..in the winter your heating bill goes up and so does your electric bill ..however some costs go down such as the cost of socialising we don't go out as much as we do ..we tend to eat lease ..making cut back's over the winter ..more time in bed sleeping is a good way of cutting back and a great way of resting up from a very busy summer of cruising fun .turning off the fridge and putting food in a chilly bin outside in a cold place and the microwave turn that off and steam your vegetables on your fire heating ..hope this is of help

[@CruisingTheCut]

Really the batteries shouldn't be let down past 12.1V ideally...

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Thanks for the video David. I just watched it for the third time. One thing of note is that certain panels produce more amperage in low light conditions. If your viewers have not yet purchased solar...perhaps some research concerning amorphous solar panels would be advised. My amorphous panels are larger, cost a bit more yet will produce nearly 5% even in moonlight and every bit helps. Amorphous panels are often overlooked due to their bad reputation of poor quality...and many are. The panels made by Uni-Solar were almost exclusively amorphous yet they went out of business when overseas manufacturers flooded the market with cheaply made panels. For some strange reason, in the last year or so these panels have become available as new-old-stock on eBay. They are usually flexible with a bonding layer on the back, some are able to roll up for shipment and storage. Yes they will cost a bit more yet I have 9 panels in several installations and the oldest is now 11 years old and still going strong.

[@CruisingTheCut]

The problem with amorphous, as you mention, is that they are substantially less efficient than standard mono/poly types so although they're better in shade, you need more of them. On a narrowboat with limited roof space, it's not necessarily the optimium choice given all considerations.

[@annettefournier9655]

Hello David. Great video, very informative and finally an explanation of power that I understood. I've watched a few videos on the subject and was totally lost as they progressed. I guess I'm from the school of KISS,( keep it simple stupid). lol Thanks so much. BTW it was 62 F today here in Eastern US. having three days of this then back to the deep freeze we go. Got to open all the windows. It was lovely and confusing at the same time😱😉

[@CruisingTheCut]

62F sounds quite pleasant! Brings a little joy to the world :-) Glad you liked it.

[@annettefournier9655]

CruisingTheCut Yes very pleasant. That would make it nearly 17 C. Usually late spring early summer temp. and it was sunny also for the first time in a week. I would need a large solar array here in winter. Now wind power on the other hand would be a breeze. Ha! (it really is very windy here)

[@Zeemike1]

You could of course unplug those electrical devices and go 19th century...but few could stand that for long. But I bet ,many spend the winter at a place where they can get shore power. Nice clear report on living with solar power...thanks.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Yes, you can get away with little power if you use little power (!!) but I like to have the telly on on a winter's evening etc. Yes, many moor up with a shoreline like I do. Cheers

[@darwinhall8550]

Good video on the advantages and disadvantages of solar power. One of the options we use on our sailboats is to upgrade the alternator on the diesel engine to one with a higher current capacity, typically in the 90 to 100 amp range. It reduces the amount of time the engine must be run to recharge the batteries.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Fair point. Most modern narrowboats have two, one for the starter battery and a dedicated 100+ Amp alternator for the leisure bank. I only have a single 70A unit, alas.

[@helenchard3030]

Hey CC, great vid, do you know how to work out what your alternator capacity is?, you said yours was 70 amps per hour

[@CruisingTheCut]

It's a 70 Amp alternator; "per hour" is irrelevant to that measurement. They're just rated as such, I don't know how you check it if you don't know. Look up the model number maybe?

[@helenchard3030]

ahh ok thanks for your help 😀

[@paulie-g]

Buy a cheapo clamp meter for 20-30 quid and you'll instantly be able to reasonably measure all the figures you were guessing at in the video. Does assume accessibility of wiring and moderate electrical clue. Might not be worth it just for a video though, as I suspect the set of people interested in boating and the set of people interested in electrical wiring are disjoint to a significant degree ;)

[@NarrowboatJourneys]

My solar array is 240watts and I can just about manage to keep things going in the winter. Mounting the panels so that they can be pointed directly at the sun, and swivelled throughout the day, will make a huge difference. Having said that, I am still very much at the mercy of the weather conditions and obstructions from trees etc. There is always the option of using less power - less telly and computer! In the winter I don't use a fridge. I leave food out in the cratch where it is usually plenty cold enough.

[@CruisingTheCut]

I think you're doing very well! Clearly no fridge helps. Don't you find it a problem when the weather varies from cold to mild (for the food)?

[@NarrowboatJourneys]

It depends on the food in question. I think it's just a case of common sense really - don't let it sit around for too long, 2-3 days is usually fine. Just trust your nose, if it smells (and looks) ok it usually is. I do have real problems in the summer though. It means I have to go food shopping every day. I'm on the lookout for a 12v fridge for summer use. They are too expensive new.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Every day? Nightmare! Yes, damned expensive.

[@StevieGstar]

keep the brilliant videos coming I love them all and a big fan of your channel

[@CruisingTheCut]

Thank you!

[@rivopoiss1]

Hi! I wanted just drop by and thank you for these videos. Thank you :D -fan from Estonia

[@CruisingTheCut]

:-)

[@century2298]

That is a healthy dose of reality ! Solar provides some power, but cannot be relied on to meet your needs. It would be a struggle to get through winter on only solar power. I'm planning on about 520 watts and trying to supplement from other sources. Still a challenge. The generator will have to be used sometime, or I shut things off.

[@rolandwolf1327]

Thanks again for an informative piece. I knew that it would not work from the start as my RV has half the solar power and my fridge is gas-fired. If you have butan/propane on board for cooking it might be worth to look into a generator using that as there is far less emissions including noise. Also you do not have to take additional petrol on board.

[@CruisingTheCut]

I know some of the Honda gennys can be converted to run on propane (and I do have that on board for cooking) so it's certainly something that would be of interest if I cruised over winter instead of plugging into the shoreline.

[@dalebuckley6073]

I have a cell phone and a lap top , but I'm old enough to remember a life with-out these extra's . For lack of a better word.Just an old man rambling on about a time when simple wasn't so bad !

[@CruisingTheCut]

Can't live without them now! (answering this on an ipad!)

[@dalebuckley6073]

Yea I know , :)

[@J7116R]

One more panel seems like a good idea, and perhaps another smaller panel or two. If you were to cover all of the available places with appropriate size panels you should be able to come out ahead on a good day and even or thereabouts on an average day. This, topped out by a small gasoline generator when necessary, should do you quite well.

[@CruisingTheCut]

But it wouldn't, as my example showed. Even on a bright day in winter it doesn't generate enough because there aren't enough fully sunny hours in the day. besides that, most winter days are overcast or rainy or otherwise horrid so you get a pittance. On the other hand, from spring to autumn there's an abundance of power; I totally disconnected from the mains and never even ran the engine for power all last year from March to mid-October. But it's not a goer in winter. There's only really space for one more pane else the top will become too cluttered and unweildy for when I'm cruising and need to get on the roof, such as in locks. As it happens, I don't need any more because I moor up for winter and have a shoreline so this video was an entirely academic exercise for anyone thinking of continuous cruising! Cheers :-)

[@bowesproject2304]

thanks for letting me know keep them videos coming really good to watch hopefully I will be doing the same as you next year living on my boat just got to finish my rebuild this year

[@CruisingTheCut]

Excellent. Hope the build goes well.

[@montystelevision3238]

I am proper liking watching all your videos during the lockdown. Id love a boat now!

[@jeffg3563]

Have you considered adding some sort of reflectors? I've seen some flat roof systems where each row of panels has a matching row of reflectors at opposite angles. Apparently it increases the performance significantly. Maybe you can come up with something removable to clip on the sides and reflect more light at the panels. Try cardboard, aluminum foil and duct tape as a test!

[@CruisingTheCut]

Hmmm, intriguing idea but I'd be surprised because if it worked everyone would do it on their panels (and they don't). Maybe worth a test though! Cheers

[@jeffg3563]

Maybe no one has done it because they've never asked me before. ;-) Just joking, but would be some interesting video content. Quick google search returned a bunch of stuff about reflectors, including this article and simple experiment. geo-dome.co.uk/article.asp?uname=solar_mirror

[@TechyBen]

I think it's less a "it does not work" and more a "cost/time/returns" problem. "Solar mirror" power stations already exist, but mainly in hot countries and as a main system. And I think only a couple at that. Without testing, it would be hard to know if it's worth it. Possibly not on a narrow boat, as little space to put the mirrors, so better to put an extra panel. But may be worth it on a caravan, where the bit of grass to put a mirror down, is cheaper and easier than an extension cable and an extra panel. :P

[@CruisingTheCut]

Ah! Solar does not like being hot, I know that.

[@DamanCross]

Very informative! I had always thought as much. But of coarse, being in America, couldn't prove it. Thank you for your 'honest' review! :)

[@CruisingTheCut]

Glad you liked it :-)

[@chrisdavison2022]

This video's handy for caravanners that may want to go 'off grid' too....

[@CruisingTheCut]

I hope so!

[@nilodrallub7812]

Another GREAT video ! Cheers from California , stay warm my friend !

[@CruisingTheCut]

Thank you - I am!

[@bntravelin2]

top notch video. you are very thorough. Always enjoyable . and I love the boat and your lifestyle choice....Terry

[@CruisingTheCut]

Cheers :-)

[@helenarnold4858]

I like the Clangers on the fridge! :-) My generation!

[@CruisingTheCut]

It's just not the same with the new Clangers, is it?!

[@sylviapage8572]

Another informative video about living on a narrowboat. I always enjoy your video's and I enjoyed this but I'm not sure a I really understand it, I'll have to watch it again to check. I think your next competition should be based on the information in this video!

[@CruisingTheCut]

Yes, watch again :-)

[@charlieoscar09]

Brilliant video thankyou for the solar info

[@CruisingTheCut]

:-)

[@basvanbeers3515]

Love the volg! One tip: a lot of sony televisions run off 19.5v DC with an adapter. As do their laptops. IE. You can run a TV off a 12v travel adapter. That way you cut out ac/DC conversions. Saves you a lot. Also: 12v fridges don't have to have energy efficiency/consumption labels. Efficient, they are not!! Since you already have a very decent inverter with standby mode. I REALLY recommend investing in a energy efficient 230v fridge. (I've lived off 400wp solar for 2 years)

[@CruisingTheCut]

I’m going to disagree with you about the 12V fridges; the modern compressor units are extremely efficient. I think you may be confusing them with the old caravan “three way” fridges which ran on gas, 12V DC and 230V AC - those are indeed inefficient when on 12V.

[@basvanbeers3515]

@@CruisingTheCut three way fridges are out of the question anyway indeed (70w 24/7). I meant the compressor ones. You are right. The newer ones are better. But they still don't have to comply to the same standard as "house" fridges. Best of luck to you!

[@robsin2810]

David, we have touched on this earlier. Renewable energy on a boat is difficult. You could upgrade your panels to 3 x 340 watt low light panels, with a wind turbine, about 500 watts. If this fails to up you energy input, you could always invest in a very long extension cord.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍👍🇦🇺🇦🇺🍷

[@CruisingTheCut]

More and bigger panels would make little difference in winter when there's still very little sun to speak of and much fewer hours of daylight. Plus I do not have space on the roof for any more panels and 340W ones would be too big. Bear in mind I need space on the roof to walk about such as when in locks. Wind turbines are not so great on canal boats, see my website FAQ page.

[@sneltochheheheh7618]

Here in Holland, a perfect system will produce about 480W per 1000Wp per day in December and Januari. Februari might bring 1Kw per day and November 800W per day. In England I think it will be slightly less, so the conclusion is comply right that solar is not sufficient to fullfill all the needs in winter.The numbers I give is the 9 year average for those months

[@paulie-g]

Don't discount the value of your flat, largely obstruction-free landscape either ;)

[@mischef18]

More power Scotty, i've given it all I got cap'n. Interesting analysis of solar during winter months and gloomy days.

[@patriciabrooks5838]

Consider that the actual voltage supplied to items such as pumps etc is higher then 12 Volts, typically 12.7 V when charged but 13.4 V or more (up to 14.4V) when being charged. The result being that the rated currents shown on appliances can be lower than the actual consumption drawn when the batteries are above the 12v nominal. To address these issues it is suggested that one adds 10%. Note: If using an inverter, the current draw increases as the battery voltage decreases. This will be particularly noticeable when drawing heavy loads from the battery bank as it will cause some voltage drop at the battery terminals due to the batteries internal resistance.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Such as running the microwave!

[@patriciabrooks5838]

Certainly as the microwave is probably the most power hungry equipment on a narrowboat. One can easily test/verify the effect on the battery voltage by measuring the battery terminal voltage while the microwave is running. Note: the microwave will be turning on and off depending on its power setting.

[@linlock2003]

I use a solar/battery setup when I go camping. I looked into fridges very carefully, option for a dometic compressor fridge. This uses LESS than 1aH per hour, so maybe 20-22aH's a day. I'd've thought narrow boat fridge technology would be alongside that, and not nearly double the power usage. :-/

[@CruisingTheCut]

The narrowboat fridges are a bit bigger than those Dometic camping ones (I have one of them in my campervan and it's excellent!)

[@michaelhartel8559]

i would suggest to add one more solar panel and two more batteries. And a mobile solar panel as an additional panel you can put direct in the sunlight when needed.

[@CruisingTheCut]

I don't really need it though. It wouldn't generate enough in winter, as explained, besides I'm on a shoreline. From spring to autumn, I have loads of solar.

[@marvinehicks1463]

David, I watched all of your videos in one week. You have really got me wanting to move to England and buy a narrow boat. When I retire I just might do that. About the tunnels, I would mount lights down both sides of your boat and turn them on when going into a tunnel and light that sucker up. Maybe do some metal detecting while cruising the cut. There are a lot of good metal detecting you tube channels in England and Scotland. Well take care and keep making great videos. Marvin E. Hicks Pensacola, Florida USA

[@CruisingTheCut]

Cheers Marvin. A lot of narrowboaters turn on all their cabin lights to try to achieve the same effect but mine are very weak. I use a rear floodlight and front spotlight nowadays.

[@CruisingTheCut]

Just wait until this new "celebrity barging" programme begins on Channel 5 (this coming Friday) - there'll be a deluge of new wannabe boaters!