CS Just Changed Forever

Thanks to skinsmonkey for sponsoring this video! Check them out here: skinsmonkey.com/r/PENGUIN
I wanted to get this video out for this week because this change is so fundamentally important for the future of CS. Counter-Strike's format might not seem like a huge deal, but this has to do with the identity of our game, and as we transition from CSGO to CS2, we can take this opportunity to reassess the format of our game, and make sure that we're doing things the right way. Let's give MR12 a shot.
If you read this, comment "CS should try MR2. First team to lead by two points wins. no possible problems could arise from this."
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Music used:
Bail Bonds - I Feel it all so Deeply
Tekken - Kitsch
Sonic Mania OST - Mirage Saloon Act
Everhood OST - At the Race Track
#cs2 #CSGO #Penguin

[@PenguinCS2]

Thanks again to Skinsmonkey for the sponsor: skinsmonkey.com/r/PENGUIN also i just wanted to add. I might be testing out some new forms of content in the coming weeks so keep your eyes open :0

[@akhirkhopdikakharchakyahai552]

@PenguinCS2 I like how you calculated how many match outcomes would change if they were MR12. But since the argument is about time, can you tell us how much longer these matches took had they been concluded at 13 rounds?

[@dFlood_]

I'm all for giving mr12 a try I just hope they are open to reverting the changes if it's not received very well by the community after some testing

[@VrodegTheGoblin717]

Testing for sure, but the MR12 fanboys and the Pro side of CS might be too loud.

[@yuval5628]

it's valve. they won't.

[@ForsenArchive]

This isn't a test, it's valve. It's here for good. The only way they revert is if there's a compete outcry and players quit.

[@samspencerRS]

@@VrodegTheGoblin717 MR12 was the original, hopefully people give MR12 a chance and not just turn it down because in this community we like to hate on change despite it defining some of the most glorified moments in CS history.

[@killacamiscoolio]

The CS community is infamous for hating any change to anything so they definitely are gonna complain

[@pobyds]

Changing it for matchmaking to mr12 would reduce the queue times significantly since it'd unify the entire queue

[@Linda-]

queue times are good as they are, i'm more concerned with the current state of rank and overall balance of matches - which would also be improved as there will be a larger pool of players the game can choose from

[@armeretta]

I saw a graph the other day that suggested that higher ranks prefer MR15 and lower ranks prefer MR12, I don't say this to say one is better than the other, but to say that this shouldn't lower queue time very much. In a properly functioning MM system, these players shouldn't get matched together anyways.

[@deficientduck3003]

A reduction in queue times would also happen assuming that most players play mr15 as they will have to queue more often and therefore more people will be in the queue. From who I know a lot more people play long than short

[@Linda-]

a recent leetify analysis shows that the split is almost 50/50@@deficientduck3003

[@troublishone]

@@armeretta Huh? I saw this graph and its % of games played at short (MR8) vs long (MR15), which did show at silver its short games mostly, and slowly built up to long games at the other end in global. But what if you wanna q short games as a global, what if you wanna q long as silver? It %100 destroys q times for people on the ends that dont wanna q the most popular mode at their ranks. Thats a problem. Even the people in the middle get their player pool cut in half. Clearly the current system isn't great.

[@ivel2934]

I think I prefer the change, for esports especially. Just yesterday Shroud and Summit were talking about how best of 5's are super exhausting and the players don't enjoy playing that long. Best of 5's might be more common if the matches are shorter. Also, I despise that there are short and long matches, it just unnecessarily splits the queue's.

[@rotua98]

did Valve advocate that ? NO the Major final is BO3 no matter the TO they need to stick to that rules but these TO in their own tournament decide to use BO5, i prefer BO3 dont blame the game mechanics, try blame that TO

[@kibberkobber]

@@rotua98 sure, but i think theres merit in bo5 finals, i think its an excellent test of a teams map pool. if valve really want to keep major finals bo3 then whatever thats fine, but i dont hate it for other TO's

[@Jzazus3]

Shroud and summit are 2 clowns , who are not pro players

[@roxinim6479]

short match should be casual only

[@don_chan3638]

i love bo5 finals, really brings out the mental game of csgo, cologne 2022 was one of the best finals because of it. pro players get paid enough to shut up

[@FeintMotion]

Important to note that 2000-2003 rulesets also had round times of 3-5 minutes.

[@mastrchief1020]

I don't want short matches to go away. I love being able to jump on Cs and knock out a couple games in under an hour.

[@TMCharly]

they should add an option to allow overtime or not

[@mpolae1631]

I think most people are not mad that pistol rounds exists, but that they are very impactful even for a mr15, in mr12 they will become even more impactful making them basically a certain win condition.

[@ghiidra__]

“Basically a certain win condition” is beyond hyperbolic. Especially at the average level of play

[@HypeMidnight]

Also worth noting that if you look ay games like Valorant with mr12, pistol rounds only give teams a 65% win rate if they win both pistols. Plus there is a 30% chance of winning the force buy second round and many other factors, and the economy is scaled the proper way, I actually would go as far as to say that it wouldnt change pistol round impact much at all.

[@dxxp4914]

@@HypeMidnight yeah i agree it really comes down to the balance in the economy with this type of change. could be more or even less significant

[@js-nk4sd]

@@HypeMidnight isn't a 30% win differential really huge for 2 rounds? Like one team has more than double the chance of winning by winning 2 particular rounds. What's the win differential when a team is at 10 vs 8 for example. You're 2 rounds up but I doubt it's even close to 65/35.

[@m0onshyne970]

@@HypeMidnight the issue with comparing to val is that force buy wins on val are much more common. even if val switched to mr15, pistol wins would still be less impactful there than in CSGO mr15.

[@tomharris184]

What I really dislike about the idea of MR12, and why I swapped from val to cs, is the lack of ability to adapt within a half. Going down 7-0 in MR15 you can still eek out a 9-6 half which is not good but its better than your best possible half being 7-5, more likely to be 8-4 or 9-3. MR12 also is no way near short enough timewise to remove BO1s from pro play, a 3-mapper in MR12 will take hours more than a BO1 MR15, what it is likely to do is make BO1s feel less satisfying and increase upsets due to the variance of pistols and underdog teams needing to find less rounds, how many underdog teams have made early strides just to fall late after a better opponent figures them out.

[@trewajg]

Recently in IEM cologne the mongolz heroic second map would have ended much sooner and in favour of mongolz and that would be a huge upset. It's true that there aren't many games that would net a different result in mr12 but that game would be a very big difference.

[@kjohn5450]

This, I play in a team that sucks on early CT side and yesterday, we came back from 8-13 to 17-13 and that happens way more often than you'd think. Removing 6 rounds may not be a very big deal in random pugs where the outcome of the game is decided whenever one team tilts but in a competitive setting It's quite frightening !

[@user-xs7dc2xx5e]

No one cares about that Valorant switch for those reasons xd.

[@lukabrasi001]

your first mistake is playing valorant, the second is thinking you cannot clutch back from a 0-7 in csgo without teleporting, invulnerability, invisibility, or flying.

[@vrmooo]

you'te @@lukabrasi001

[@armeretta]

I don't know if I agree about BO1s going away because of the implementation of MR12. They aren't thaaat much shorter time-wise, and there is going to be more server downtime as we switch between maps. A BO3 MR12 is going to be considerably larger than a BO1 MR15. I also don't think that many teams are one tricking maps, upsetting a top tier team in a BO1 is just something that happens because of variance and the inherent advantage unknown players have when anti-stratting. I'm willing to try MR12, but I think people act a little too optimistic about rebalancing the economy. The CS economy is extremely finicky, add five bullets to the M4A1S, it is the only Ct rifle in the game; make the Krieg $150 less, the Krieg is the only viable T side Rifle, increase the UMP's falloff damage by a few points, and it goes from the only SMG used to never being touched again... All of these little changes can flip the entire meta on it's head. I think the economy we have now in CSGO is integral to the essence of CS. It took 10+ years to get it to this point, where most guns are competitively viable. Part of me just wishes that they would further develop the economy we have NOW, as opposed to making a change that could set us back. Right now I think the economy is the most balanced that it has ever been. I still see AUGs and Kriegs on certain maps/positions, Auto-snipers, shotguns, deags/p250s/tech-9s... We have the most variety that we've ever had in any iteration of the game

[@ecoleikr8619]

Well said.

[@miniyodadude6604]

You could argue less rounds means higher valued items are higher risk, higher reward as you either gain the value for a greater amount of the game, or lose eco for a greater amount of the game, so overall the eco doesnt change as much as the risk reward does

[@fireflygodx9654]

@@miniyodadude6604 you could say this, but if you really think about how rounds are played out in cs pro play it can be very boring, now add even more risk to your poor decision and now you have less chance to try it. I love esports, but man are some games soooo boring nothing happens in them, one team wins slowly, I aint gonna watch ct side do nothing and T side take 10 years to get an entry or try to site execute last minute every single round as they're afraid to risk their economy...

[@Forotosh]

Collecting current MR15 data to see who reaches 13 round wins first is a bit flawed because it still includes the last 3 rounds of the first half, which skews data to favor whoever had the better side during the first half. But you can't just remove those rounds from the data either, because teams' economy choices might have been different. For example, you would never save on round 12. So it's complicated, and it's impossible to see exactly how MR12 will work until we see it in action.

[@nadantagaming2276]

It’s like saying 12 and 15 are the same number. 😄

[@mr.business4941]

I loved when mr8 came out since mr15 is much to long for me, but im not sure how i’ll like mr12

[@C0nnie]

they should make it so if i win 40+ in a row, I rank up. and if i lose 1, i DONT derank. all we want

[@mikaex6604]

Seems like a good change, I have always played MR15 because MR8 matches just seem way too short for me, but there were times where i was contemplating whether or not to queue up for a game due to time constrictions.

[@dominickmaddox9576]

Same, i play MR15 in most cases but if im short on time i enjoy a quick MR8 maybe they could keep MR8 as casual

[@mfx4958]

I played mr8 for a year now and only last night I decided to switch again to mr15 just for the sake of it. Dominated the entire match, until the end when we couldnt and lost dramaticaly. So, safe to say I do not want to lose 40-50 minutes of my meaningless existence for a match I ll probably just lose, instead of wasting the same amount of time losing one and winning another, or losing both as it usually happens(maybe winning both? if am premade)

[@Reilia_]

I just am very worried about eco balance. Hopefully they can do it well Also I think mr15 should be at least available as like a classic mode or something, I feel like it's too iconic to let completely disappear

[@mauritshagedorn856]

you know damn well that no one would touch mr12. that gamemode would be dead from the first day.

[@shivaOHM]

Mr12 is classic tbh. The older generation players will love m12 again.

[@Ultra289]

Why not just leaving mr8 and mr15 for unranked only?

[@Komso47]

honestly, I've been playing exclusively short matches for the past year and I can say I like it a lot more than the long games.. but It's of course a different story when we're talking about the majors and the pros. First round is gonna be so important, maybe even deciding the halftime.

[@Mibmu]

Note: The clip with HeatoN at 7:24 is not originally played in CS1.6, that was back in version 1.3 I think, but he used a coverter from CS1.3-demo to work on 1.6.

[@realbr1koo]

I would be devastated if pistolrounds would be taken out. I rock it mostly, out of 10 pistol rounds at least 7 lands in our favor. It is really important as if you win it dominantly not only you get a better money for the second round, but you hut a bit of fear in your enemies.

[@Tyreinn]

glad to hear someone mention chargers only again, havent heard it come up since a thorin vid from like 6 years ago. Although I see the argument about CTs being incentivized to stall the clock out, it would also deter Ts from wanting to save for a whole ass round. I agree though, I've been hoping for a chargers only showmatch forever. if anything, its the perfect format for a showmatch since you know exactly how long a game is going to take. i doubt ties are very common in the format so it would be pretty easy to give each team 20 minutes and call it a day

[@daveLabrewski]

Excellent vid, man! I'm so very glad that you analyzed 'first to 13 rounds' typically are 90% likely to win the map. Man, would have been JUICY if you also did these calcs for other majors to really hammer it home. Still aroused though

[@NoahCS]

I went through the recent Gamers8 tournament and checked, and it was still 90% of games were won by who hit 13 first. I think it's definitely interesting and I hope someone more motivated than me goes back and checks other tournaments. (37 maps played at Gamers8, 34 maps won by the team that hit 13 first ; Heroic V Falcons (Mirage), Heroic V Ence (Nuke), G2 V Vitality (Mirage) were outliers. 4/5 of the top teams right now so definitely seems more rounds benefit the most "competitive" games but with the time saved maybe there could've been a lower bracket for the tournament and not just single elim ? )

[@Gunner8_]

I personally don't like there being two queues for competitive. I like playing long matches, but I understand why some people don't have the time/don't want to play them. I agree with you that mr12 would not hurt to give it a shot. The only thing I don't really like it is might throw off balance if valve does not do a good job with it. I also don't really like the fact that valorant and csgo are trying to become the same game, so I like the fact that csgo is mr15. Anyways man keep up the good work your videos are fire🔥

[@riker8214]

I like it. One of the many problems with csgo MM is that the player base is split between short match queue and long match queue. Wait times are longer and this affects rank disparity if there are less people queuing at that moment. Since they got rid of short matches then this should be a good thing in a sense. Maybe they’ll have to adjust the economy a bit but overall I’m in support of the change.

[@Trashcan9999]

In my experience mr15 is better because you can come back due to economy being more important but it is annoying that it can take an hour.

[@spladoinkk]

an hour that youll never forget. 16-14 comebacks hit DIFFERENT

[@spladoinkk]

@@cicolas_nage dont care mr15 clears

[@danktrain5746]

@@cicolas_nage dog shitter with no heart want mr12, people with heart want the long matches

[@dr_birb]

​@@spladoinkkhope you'll keep not caring when it gets replaced and accept the reality.

[@spladoinkk]

@@dr_birb ill just go outside. I couldn’t give less of a shit💀

[@mTwMarco]

CS was played competitive with MR12 in the very early days (early 2000s) and it worked pretty good. Pistol rounds were much more important which I really enjoyed.

[@its_skipper]

recently heard Get Right saying before MR12 was a thing in early CSGO days and even events were played on MR12, they just didn't find that sweet spot with economy on MR12 and some bugs but with how much devs are really putting in the work I'm confident that it will be better and not scuffed. Edit: I said that during the first half of the video. I just reached the part where you talk about the MR12 days 👍

[@ToastySofa]

This is def the play, it’s gonna take multiple economy patches for it to feel right though.

[@Newdrew8]

CS should try MR2. First team to lead by two points wins. No possible problems could arise from this.

[@michaistking]

Chargers only was last used at the omen challange 2017, I remember it being fun to watch :)

[@alextaylor3934]

My main issue with it is that valve is most likely going to delete csgo and not save it the way the did 1.6 and source. IMO CSGO is in a near perfect state rn, whether or not you agree we should still be able to access it.

[@Spetsnazty]

How would they do that when there hundreds of thousands of community made maps?

[@gues.t]

​@@Spetsnaztyvalve made a porter so that you can port csgo maps into cs2

[@49999]

You probably will be able to play it in betas section I think as we can still download the first csgo version from there

[@MaxFunoff]

I think they would just disable competitive and let community servers run

[@shivaOHM]

Its not on a perfect state, it's just not really possible to optimize it anymore because the engine is running with it's last forces.

[@soukycz3797]

I have a question for you, because I dont have the data and dont really want to look it up. How many matches were 12:12 meaning overtime in mr12? Meaning economy "reset" for both teams. One thing I really dislike about mr12 is that how problematic it might be if you loose a few rounds as a ct on a heavy ct map like nuke. For example last finals on gamers8 with vitality vs ence. The half would end with a 6:6 score line instead of ence winning the half 9:6 (as far as I remeber). Sure they still lost but it feels like mr15 gave them more wigle room to possibly adjust to the game more and let to a more interesting game imo

[@Lebberg]

Old video was Heaton on Aztec and Markeloff on DD2, back in 1.3 and 1.5 if you lost pistol it would be a full save in second round cus less rounds to make it up. Its going to be great to see teams come up with new MR12 buy meta.

[@JunJun238]

I always wanted to see a best of 7. Maybe it can happen with MR12?

[@CuteBridge]

Really looking forward to this in matchmaking

[@dreadin]

rambling at the end as usual, and for some reason i'm always here for it.

[@AWESOMO5]

I welcome the MR12. MR15 feels too long, I can only play one or two games a day, but with short matches I can crank out a bunch more.

[@Alexander-iq6bc]

I don't believe comparing comebacks in this context is appropriate. If teams played using the MR12 format, their strategies would differ. It's not possible to directly equate the Boston major comeback to an MR12 scenario because the dynamics of the game would change entirely with a different starting point.

[@thetalkingtoast8988]

thanks for another banger this view made me rethink my opion on the change and i agree that if done right i could be interesting but its not gonna be easy but im here for some wacky times the next bit of time

[@atl4s772]

I don’t think the comparison with cologne and getting to 13 rounds is viable, because in mr15 you play 15 round t and ct (if it’s a full game ofc) and in mr12 you play only 12 rounds t and ct. The way some maps are makes them more t or ct sided so it will be very different how you get to 13 rounds in mr12 and how you get to 13 rounds in mr15

[@theLGf]

mr12 was used long time ago i am sure i was playing it on 1.5 and maybe in beginning of 1.6 and was abandoned to reduce importance of pistols and since now in go we have smg shotguns and pistols that are competitive making eco rounds more dangerous we can try shorten it back

[@tonybrovold]

Jeeey! The cool background sound is back😄😄

[@Peter-gb4ey]

I'd give MR12 a try. It might work with the gameplay changes from CS2 like being able to sell your weapons, being able to drop utility, new smoke mechanics, "infinite tick rate," and MaYbE no or less cheaters. That and less CS:GO moments with the Source 2 engine.

[@frasersnow4984]

I think something important to take into consideration that a lot of other games devs don't do is that the pro scene isn't the be all and end all of the game. Imo, changes shouldn't be judged around how it will affect the pro level, it should be first and foremost centred around how it will affect the average player, and then how it impacts the pro level should be considered second.

[@widthemid]

okay yeah I want to see a chargers only showmatch pretty badly now

[@saltcor]

I like the change personally. I got to the point in CSGO where I pretty much only played short matches because regular matches felt way too long. At the same time I felt like short matches were a bit too short, so it’s nice for MR12 to just be the standard across the board and you only get overtime if the game is neck and neck which means the game’s good, but if you’re getting obliterated then it’s over a lot quicker than MR15.

[@thecraftytomato]

Played some mr12 ten mans with Wilson’s discord and honestly it didn’t bother me as much as I thought it would. It almost felt like nothing changed, it was just shorter.

[@Lussimio]

90% of games i've played have been short matches, so i'm all for it

[@PC_Ringo]

Our game has not always been MR15. In the really early days, halves were time based - i remember 10 min, 20 min, 30 min halves. Also remember thaf MR12 was a thing in presteam cs1.6. MR15 was an evolution and has been rusted on for a while and i do like it but I reckon MR12 will be awesome! Loved the video - great take on the history

[@benkr]

yep. there has been all sort of modes. timelimit was fun but had a a problem with camping in certain situations, where attackers would play the clock. mr improved on this

[@CS2_Guru]

Gonna be interesting to se how mr12 gonna work! Great video mate :D

[@skyler4978]

Talking about comebacks while EG is getting 16-0'd in the background was a nice touch.

[@FreakismeChannel]

7:18 yooo that is banger tekken soundtrack

[@bukkittom]

I dont think mr12 is really fun imo, i hate how important pistol rounds become. If they are to implement that outside of the beta then i hope they at the very least remove the draw feature and make overtime a matchmaking standard. At the very least remove the draw so that when the underdog team catches up to the leading team they get the chance to brawl it out till the end. And please dont make the overtimes drawable like valorant.

[@MrMarkSheppy]

MR12 will work great if the loss is adjusted. So that there is an occasional eco but removed double eco situations, but not allowing for continously force buying. So possibly reducing initial loss bonus, and then increase the second loss bonus.

[@ka1ru]

mr12 is working fine for me as it doesn't feel too long or too short, as valve intended

[@SnugglesDaBearxx]

As someone who loves CS. Id always prefer longer matches. The fact teams can make mistakes but still be able to pull together to win the map is gonna be less likely on MR12. But for me i will always love and watch cs no matter the rounds, just like most other fans. So i understand the idea of MR12 being more appealing to casual fans and bringing more people into playing the game so it can grow. And in my book, id be down to give up MR15 to have this game grow more

[@yugaldutt0061]

I slept twice while watching. You’re voice is calmly and relaxing 😂

[@michaelmcd64]

As someone who plays pretty casually every once in a while I sorta like the shorter rounds since then I don't need to make as much as a big time commitment when playing.

[@niobium2444]

this is absolutely a great change. anyone saying otherwise is eating the ‘member berries

[@aquaismissing]

Counter-Strike messiah LMAO HAAHAH much love

[@SuperLapplander]

I remember back in the day (way back) when "they" changed the round-timer from 4 min to 2 min. Me and alot of other people where skeptical about the change back then but nowadays I dont know how we even managed to play those long rounds ..

[@mrcoxa]

Awesome video! Bring back that special mode !

[@sidewaysfcs0718]

For the longest time, CS1.6 was played with MR15 but without the recovery changes introduced LATE in csgo's lifetime, meaning back them you would often see double-eco rounds, and HARSH punishment in the form of the dreaded "full reset" after winning one round and losing the next, you would be forced to do at least one FULL eco which was painful as hell. CSGO later introduced the recovery changes so that now you don't instantly lose your win bonus, they also introduced the starting loss bonus so that the pistol rounds already became slightly less impactful. The change to MR12 simply now makes pistol rounds more impactful but you still keep the benefits of the recovery system. I would say the current MR12 system makes for a more balanced game since the pistol round actually carries a hefty reward but doesn't guarantee a win even if you land both pistol rounds.

[@UmamiPapi]

I’ve loved short matches and only played them since release. MR12 sounds perfect.

[@saisakics]

I just have one question, how exactly does mr12 remove bo1? We have bo1 because bo3 would take too much time, but with mr12 it would still take too much time, like other comments pointed out, a 3 mapper with mr12 would still need way more time than one bo1 mr15.

[@marcelulbrich7527]

MR12 was very popular in comptetitive matches from 1vs1 to 3vs3 between 2001 and 2008. MR15 was only played in 5vs5 matches in the last 20 years

[@hommeboy]

Now if your opponent has any kind of lead, it’s gg…

[@mattbuckborough7012]

Totally new, unique, and never seen before buy menu, 12 round halves, what's next? Will we have to select an agent at the beginning of the game that comes with special abilities???

[@MissTomi]

I don't want 24 rounds 30 is the perfect length.

[@DJCharizard]

When I saw the news come out that CS would be changing to MR12, I was pretty against it. I had the mentality of "It's always been MR15 why change it?", but after thinking about it for a while and going through your points in the video, I think the change to MR12 will be a net positive for the community if the economy is balanced right. I'm in the camp of players that actually prefer short matches over regular length matches, and I've been playing CS for most of my life at this point. Even though the economy can get a little screwed in MR8, the faster pace of matches lets me get through more matches in a session, and when I'm getting completely 9-0'd, it's less agonizing and time consuming than a 15-0. As much as I love MR15, sometimes I really don't want to sit in a match for over an hour, and during professional Bo5's it can quickly spiral into an all day series and more of a question of which team can mentally stand 5+ hours of matches instead of who can perform at their peak for each game. Great work with the video, you're really starting to become one of my favorite CS content creators. Keep up the awesome work.

[@danktrain5746]

I just had a 9-0 comeback not to long ago, not everyone gives up when their down. for people who actually try in a COMPETATIVE game. mr12 is a worse outcome for them.

[@tolland4433]

Enjoyed the video, although I think a few of the points raised aren't perfectly accurate or at least incomplete. It would be better to use more events than just Cologne to show match result differences under MR12, and you also have to bear in mind that maybe decision making would have been different (leading to different results) if MR12 was used. So I'd be interested to see a video showing points on both sides rather than just points defending MR12, especially if you yourself aren't sold on the idea. That fast paced concept was really interesting though I'm glad you put that in the video.

[@p1va9]

Good change for me, one major reason I never really got so heavily into CS but did with valorant instead, is that on valorant I can queue 2 games in a row while in CS I often can just do 1/1 and a half which I'll obviously not queue the second game if I don't have enough time to finish it...

[@thearbiter3369]

I came from valorant to cs. I’m able to play cs much more than I ever could of valorant, but the pacing always did feel just about right. No game ever felt like it went on forever unless ot was necessary. And close games still took maybe 40 minutes to play out from a casual perspective. Utility usage is changing entirely without the skybox limitations or solutions. So who knows maybe utility itself will get overhauled depending on how suppressive smokes can be literally across a map.

[@jacobdelosa932]

I remember the early days of playing competetive cod4 we did mr12 during the season but mr15 for finals, man finals felt like matches went on forever. It'll be a good change, will take the community years to accept it though lmao

[@charliewood6616]

I don’t play faceit because of MR15. MR8 is much more palatable to me and much less of a time commitment, even if I have to play match making

[@caknut]

i honestly cant sit through a full mr15 game, i love the length of an mr8 game, we will see

[@Yonny316]

Interesting data you pulled. Can't argue with physics!

[@darknite360x]

It’s good to see a channel under 100k subs making his bag

[@ModernJackCS]

Penguin ur videos are crazy man! Keep it going

[@iceboxchamberlain1]

Bro used one tournament to argue against something that was for 20 years. I hope everyone understands that it is an *extremely* small sample size.

[@TheRealGras]

We played MR12 back in the of 1.5/1.6 CAL days

[@StudioMiwabi]

I'd love to have MR12 as an option and probably have it over short matches' MR8 but I feel like there needs to be major changes to the economy before MR15 is removed, every map will likely become extremely T sided, matchmaking is already pretty T sided as it is even on "ct sided maps" as its just easier to make a structured attack then a structured defense with random people with random playstyles and wanting to play whatever positions. CT guns just cost too much for the current economy. I think one of the reasons MR12 works well in Valorant mainly imo cause the weapon costs are equal over each side. I'd be happy to see MR12 in the pro scene but theyd have to switch play off games to bo5s because otherwise the final's streams which have 2 bo3s a day each just go by a bit quick

[@Terision]

The fact that valve are still trying new things and experimental features just means cs ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

[@2.5k_ping56]

I think we can learn more by first hand experiment during open beta if it ever happens

[@NotThatJojjo]

After playing now for a week or two, mr12 is sooooo much better

[@banjoo0]

If mr12 was already in IEM Cologne second map of vitality-ence semi final would actually go to overtime because we cut off 3 round of half (if u know what I mean)

[@irift3]

Yo this is weird!!! The other day I was playing a short comp game and noticed that when we lost the pistol round, we had a 2 stage loss bonus. Wonder how often that's happened to other folks in preparation for the switch.

[@vector3214]

Doesnt MR stand for "mid-round"?

[@nickpask3715]

Imo the fact that most games' results wouldn't change isn't a good point. Teams prepare for MR15 and changing it to MR12 would impact their strategies.

[@don_chan3638]

my issue is that it reduces the chess like nature of professional cs, this is similar to reducing the time in football from 90 minutes down to 60. if we do mr12 and get rid of ecos it stops an important part of the chess game of csgo, at that point economy doesnt matter as much which is one of the most important parts that define csgo

[@supaygato]

Something I don't see mention, with MR12 bo5 can actually be a thing, because now games arent as long for both players and viewers. However if bo5 are to be common, teams now have to learn all maps as they can't have a permaban in bo5, that would be another debate of its own.

[@Spetsnazty]

I think that’s part of the switch. Make teams play and practice all maps.

[@sondrestrmme4006]

It might also naturally favour going for clutches as opposed to the save-heavy meta that CSGO has ended up with. Leaving us with more clutch attempts and more great moments

[@king_br0k]

Tbh I thought a best of 3 short matches would replace single map matches in pro play As long as the the economy is tuned so that if you save round 2 after a pistol loss you can get a good buy round 3 it should be gpod

[@owenkapler7630]

the thing I'm worried about is whether or not Valve would even be willing to change it back to MR15 if MR12 proves a worse system. I'm very much in favor of experimentation, but the problem is that I don't think valve is

[@pedlipop]

no more magical deagle shot

[@Ashiee27]

if you think about it if regular matches are MR12 now short rounds are basically MR5 now which is hella wierd racing to 5 wins

[@fudgerounds91]

I think the best way to test MR2 would be to add it as a medium match length, but give a third drop to people while they're playing MR12. Sure, maybe it'll just be another P250 Sand Dune, but it'll be my third P250 Sand Dune.

[@ilove2learn783]

1.6 was MMR12. We're back to good old ways. MR15 was too much.

[@theconstipated]

Im not for mr12 in competitive play for the simple reason that our current round system works great. if it aint broke, dont fix it. but mr12 could be perfect for a new casual mode. For the most part make casual exactly the same as comp but with some some changes that make it actually more casual. so that means: -no team damage except with utility (like how faceit has it) -mr12 instead of mr15 to make the matches faster -exact same economy so that new players can still use it as a more practical learning experience -5v5 instead of the current casual server size -bots with reworked ai(no rushing) that players can take control of when they die And an idea i came up with for players that join mid match that will make their economy balanced to the current stage of the half when they join. so a team isnt punished too much for a player leaving and same with a player joining mid match. -so if a player joins in rounds 2-4 they get around 2400 which is enough for them to eco and buy next round or force buy, this would fit well in the start of the game and not take away from the strategy that comes with planning early match. -rounds 5-8 you would have 4200, enough to get m4/ak with limited utility or they can get full util and a downgraded gun like a famas/galil, limiting only to the point that keeps your decision on your buy thought out -rounds 9-12 you get 8000, enough for a full buy and you can drop for one teammate. All of these changes would make the casual mode a viable gamemode for new/casual players and keep the built in competitive mode competitive. Right now new players are hindered too much when they start playing the game either they have to play casual and learn how to play the game incorrectly or they have to go straight into comp and get stomped because they have zero experience. Also since the current casual mode is just a worse version of counterstrike in a gamemode people who play the game more casually just go into comp anyways making the base game competitive mode a lot more of a joke.

[@tehjamerz]

What was MR and round time in OGL 2v2

[@LegoDude182]

I havent played mr15 since they brought in short matches. I get too frustrated losing for that long, and too bored winning that long.

[@benjaminengslev4261]

The reason I don't want MR12 is because the best games are the ones that goes the distance. The shorter games just don't have the same impact. I'm also not certain whether MR12 would eliminate Bo1