Cu Mai by hand - programming steel and copper

Making a Wild knife by forging copper and steel together in the shop today! This is different because we are in a sense programming steel and copper to have a certain design before we forge it! Come along and lets build something really cool together! Cu mai by hand is actually pretty easy! Copper melts at a lower temperature than you would forge weld steel at so it makes it relatively easy to forge by hand!
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#CuMai
#Programmingsteel
#Cumaibyhand

[@Aleeknives]

For exclusive content and one on one coaching opportunities click here www.patreon.com/Aleeknives

[@FireCreekForge]

Innovative, nice!

[@Aleeknives]

Thanks, check out tyrell knifeworks and the rivers experience cu mai builds also. We all did builds pretty much at the same time! We all did it differently also! We would love to see your take on this also! Make sure you tag us so we see your video, we all talk about upcoming builds to try and maximize KZbin algorithm between our channels! Denis over at tyrell knifeworks is working on a wakizashi build he is going traditional so I think mine will be more contemporary 😁 we all enjoy your work man! We should get you in the mix

[@FireCreekForge]

@@Aleeknives thanks man, I do have some ideas I'll be trying soon!

[@jscrcustomknives479]

This mans set up is absolutely genius! Pull the billet out and it’s already on the anvil! Mind blown 🤯

[@Aleeknives]

Thanks man!

[@boubouboubou7875]

Can't wait to see the result

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I'm sure it worked, Airin! (Plus I've already seen the preview LOL). Looks good! One note, be careful with that copper that came out. I had some leak out of a cu-mai billet and then I found it later embedded in a damascus billet I was doing and had to grind it out. Check your forge after and remove any little beads so you don't get them embedded in future projects.

[@Aleeknives]

Ya I saw the beads in there and if you don't get em quick they hold on real tight and almost have to chip them out! But you can't move them around when they are liquid either! Kinda reminds me of mercury

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@Aleeknives Yeah, the copper in the forge is a pain in the butt! From now on I'm gonna put a ceramic tile into my forge when doing it to capture any beads so I can remove them.

[@Aleeknives]

I think I am going to keep this forge dedicated for this kind of work and use the new forge for other more traditional tasks

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@Aleeknives I still have my old forge but I don't really have the room set aside to have both setup at the same time. Maybe I'll reconsider that though.

[@Aleeknives]

For these dirty projects!

[@jamesball7322]

I bet it works nicely

[@Aleeknives]

It came out spectacular!

[@jamesball7322]

@@Aleeknives yes it did

[@domkambet5345]

wow nice

[@Aleeknives]

Thanks Dom!

[@HansKnives]

Looking forward to the final result. good work

[@Aleeknives]

You and me both!

[@johnjude2685]

You are doing great I'm saying you are getting the copper okay 👍

[@forjanatalense]

Dude i never saw anyone talking about cumai this way, im so glad for this knowledge! Thank you very much for this content sir! Im trying that rlly soon!!

[@Aleeknives]

Thanks! I am really just goofing around! Playing with new ideas! I am glad to have you here on the channel!

[@faviobe6396]

Hola Alee, soy de Argentina, gracias por compartir conocimientos y traducir en el vídeo, saludos Favio desde San Justo, La Matanza.

[@kenglass1980]

Yes. It will work..... We have every faith in your experimental metallurgy!

[@Aleeknives]

I love it! Thank you! I will know by late tonight after I get to grinding on it again! Cheers

[@nateand3]

I sure hope it did. Can't wait to see it Sunday

[@Aleeknives]

Me to bro! Thanks

[@bkohn]

I think it worked! If it did I am for sure gonna invest in the few bits of equipment to try CuMai! Thanks again for jumping into the live stream last Sunday! 💪🏻⚒️💥

[@Aleeknives]

For sure Bryan! Hey are you editing your videos yourself? That last video had some really interesting speed ramps and other cool edits man!

[@coffeehouseforge5632]

I think you nailed it again. Looking forward to seeing the finished blade. Keep up the great videos.👍

[@Aleeknives]

Thank you! We will see

[@shirezknife5298]

very good👌👌👏👏Tank you

[@ridgerunner66]

Always enjoy seeing what ideas you have. You think outside the box. Can't wait to see the finished product. Davin

[@Aleeknives]

Thank you Davin! I can't wait to see if it worked!

[@craigjones2015]

I bet it's going to look wicked

[@Aleeknives]

I hope so!

[@bearfootknivesgunforge9183]

Yes it'll work!

[@Aleeknives]

It did work! I posted an update videonif you want to check it out!

[@bearfootknivesgunforge9183]

@@Aleeknives will check it out brother. God Bless

[@gwcstudio]

Figure it'll blow apart in quench. I'd have gone for an edge quench and slow cool down on the back. Good luck!

[@rodneylangstroth4577]

I think it will work. Molten copper should fill the voids

[@Aleeknives]

I certainly hope so!

[@theriversexperience9383]

I like it, I think it's going to be pretty cool.

[@Aleeknives]

I really had this idea come to me watching your last mokume gane cladding cu mai knife your working on. You drilled holes on the outside and I drilled holes on the inside! Thanks for the inspirarion!

[@andrejohnson6731]

Pretty sure it worked, looking forward to seeing the final piece!

[@Aleeknives]

Fingers crossed!

[@ronamedee2475]

Looking better than last one :) Glad that you take the risk I can't afford to !

[@Aleeknives]

I just have fun messing around man!

[@volkangunyeli]

Hello Airin! It's a different work, I hope they don't break up. I'll be waiting for the result. Health to your hands 🙂👍🙌

[@Aleeknives]

Thank you! I am excited to see it myself!

[@927forge9]

OMG! lol I think it is gorgeous

[@Aleeknives]

I did to! Thank you!

[@danwerkman]

Ahhhhh man...Sunday......really.... I don't see why it won't work.... I say 80percent chance of success.... See ya Sunday

[@Aleeknives]

I am grinding tonight and I am a little nervous to say the least! I really want it to work

[@clitt4730]

You either have a really bad poker face or an even better one. You look like you're in love with the blade and trying to hide it.

[@Aleeknives]

🤣😂 actually I don't know yet! I don't get to grind it up till the kids go to bed tonight! But I will know soon! I really hope it works. This is the problem with filming and uploading real-time man. I really don't like to fail but if I do everyone gets to learn from it!

[@clitt4730]

I hope it's a success, the idea is awesome

[@Take_And_Make]

Your happy face says it all! :) I think it did work of course! Hey, congrats on reaching 5K subs!

[@Aleeknives]

Thank you!

[@bertiebassett7011]

Im sure that will look great once all polished up! surface tension should make the copper 'wick' over the steel and fill all the voids.

[@Aleeknives]

Man, I think your onto something there! I was wondering if there was any type of specific Flux that would help the copper flow also? This is all new to me and extremely fun to experiment with. Thanks for joining in! Cheers

[@bertiebassett7011]

​@@Aleeknives a flux for brazing would probably be the best but borax should work too. iv used it when brazing copper and brass together. Keeping the oxides at bay is the key.

[@bradymcphail9690]

Way cool! Gonna try this, can’t wait.

[@Aleeknives]

Shoot me a message and let me know how it turns out!

[@bradymcphail9690]

@@Aleeknives I shall do that.

[@Aleeknives]

[e-mail]

[@Aleeknives]

Pictures would be awesome! I love seeing what everyone else is doing!

[@williammetzger3206]

Yes I think it will. The center or the core peace looks really thin so as long as that stays in the center it should be all good

[@Aleeknives]

The video of the finished blade drips at 11am central time today on the community tab for the channel subscribers to see

[@MrSoloun]

Should work, looking forward to seeing end pattern.

[@Aleeknives]

Sneak peak video drops tomorrow morning

[@bwell6863]

I hope it works! Either way, it will be interesting!

[@Aleeknives]

You know even if it fails it could be interesting! That is why I love this stuff man!

[@jeremynedrow7003]

Im going to try something very similar.

[@Aleeknives]

That's awesome! it is a lot of fun!

[@matthewsweeney7837]

Any tips for doing the heat treatment with the copper layer

[@Aleeknives]

Yes sir! Do not overshoot your temperature or the copper will melt and run out!.

[@Drew_lininger]

Oooooh interesting!

[@Aleeknives]

Definitely something different for you! Thanks for watching man!

[@IonutJaR]

should work, I've made some cu-mai billet my self but without melting copper, works pretty well if you can control the temperature.

[@Aleeknives]

That just it right there! If you can control the temp. I have had puddles of copper in the forge in the blink of an eye!

[@sudo_nym]

It has to work because we want it to work! 😎 Hopefully the edge steel wasn’t too thin and you got a decent grind on that bad boy! That’s the only thing that might mess it up functioning as a knife. Congratulations on breaking that milestone of 5k, too. Big effort needed to reach that! 🇬🇧🙏🏻🇺🇸

[@Aleeknives]

Thanks Pete! I hope it grinds out well! I will know late tonight if it worked!

[@sudo_nym]

@@Aleeknives 🤞🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙏🏻

[@Aleeknives]

🤜💥 💥 💥 💥 💥 🤛

[@pintsizedadventures6282]

I think it will work brothers and sisters:)

[@Aleeknives]

I am excited to see! I start the grind tonight!

[@warrensreptiles]

I am not sure how it turned out but I sure hope it worked!

[@Aleeknives]

It will be out on sunday!

[@Aleeknives]

I hope it works too!

[@JohnDoe-df2zz]

I would have thought that you would need to heat treat the welded billet prior to profiling. I’d have to check the temps but I figured the copper would melt again during the heat treat and the layers would separate. I guess we will see next video.

[@Aleeknives]

Thus steel heat treats at roughly 1500 degrees and the copper melts at 1900 roughly.

[@clitt4730]

The copper isn't going to be at melting temperature during the heat treat. It's only above 1900 when forge welding. Heat treat was probably be around 1500.

[@user-vh5qz7ii8s]

نتشارك المعرفة لنصنع السعادة

[@Aleeknives]

Thank you

[@TRichardsBlades]

Could you do Cumai with any copper based alloy? Brass, bronze etc?

[@Aleeknives]

I think so! As long as the melting point is highr than the temperature needed to heat treat the steel. I know brass melts at an even lower temp than copper. 1084 needs around 1500 degrees to heat treat. Copper melts around 1900 degrees and I believe brass is somewhere in between those 2

[@TRichardsBlades]

@@Aleeknives brass is 1660 and bronze is 1675 so in theory it should be ok, but barely, maybe claying up the outer jacket and leaving the cutting edge bare might be even better?

[@Aleeknives]

Excellent ideas! I like your style!

[@cjslomba3227]

I’m pretty sure it worked With the reduction of the billet size it’s gotta have that copper forced up into the dips

[@Aleeknives]

Man I hope your right! I will know if it worked later tonight!

[@cjslomba3227]

@@Aleeknives what was the width of the steel you used? I’m waiting on some 1/4” thick copper bars to come in so I can try some of this Cu Mai stuff out!

[@Aleeknives]

Man that is some really thick copper! I have been using a water pipe. I just bought a section of 2 inch copper pipe at the store, cut it length wise and flattened it out. Works great and was the cheapest copper I could find. This bar stock was 1.25inches wide. I am excited to see how it turned out tonight! I think the center metal should have been a little thicker than what I used.

[@gurvinderkau1e5w18]

Cool storage place. Wat was that hammer called u showed while forging it looked awesome. And yes it worked very well am sure. Cant wait to see the pattern👍👍🔥🔥🔥

[@Aleeknives]

Ah the hammer you speak of, I used 3 a normal 2.5 lb rounding, a diagonal peen and a flatter hammer. The diagonal peen draws your material length ways and the flatter flattens. Thank you so much for watching and contributing to the channels success!

[@mitchellgreeneknives6715]

Why didn't the copper melt durning HT?

[@Aleeknives]

The melting point of copper is around 1900 degrees and the heat treat temp for 1084 and 15n20 is right at 1500 degrees.

[@Aleeknives]

What do you guys think of the idea of pre programming the steel?

[@danwerkman]

Makes sense to me...why not..... Mosaic tile Damascus is programing steel.. to the point that people are making pictures. So what's wrong with what you are doing

[@Aleeknives]

@@danwerkman thank you Dan!

[@mcrich1978]

Seems like a good idea to me. With the copper that oozed out seems pretty telling that those voids did fill with the forging and left excess copper with no where else to go but out of the billet. 👍

[@Aleeknives]

Man I hope so! I will get to grinding tonight!

[@Charlestonkayakandfishing]

I think it’s a great idea

[@toymastr2901]

I am guessing that it should work.

[@Aleeknives]

it did! The sneak peak video drops tomorrow for all the subscribers!

[@justinchiang6969]

So, is this a proper weld or a braze between the copper and steel? Can this be further forged for patterns?

[@Aleeknives]

This is more of a braze. It can be forged into other patterns as long as you don't exceed the melting point of the copper

[@tarts9767]

Did you heat up your anvil this time ? 👍👍👍😊

[@Aleeknives]

No I didn't, mainly because I never took it to forge welding temperatures. Copper melts around 1900 degrees

[@cheffandrewscookingshow1455]

you might want to try making the tang on your hidden tang knives a inch or so longer

[@Aleeknives]

Totally agree! This was not by design

[@cheffandrewscookingshow1455]

@@Aleeknives ok

[@Aleeknives]

This blade is only 2 inches long and I plan to mount it into a super strong material. I don't think there will ever be huge lateral pressures with this little blade so I am not to concerned about it. I do totally agree with you! I saw a post on Facebook yesterday where a guy was asking if someone would fix the handle on his machete and the tang was literally no longer than this one! Can you believe that! A machete with a 1 inch tang! WOW man

[@cheffandrewscookingshow1455]

@@Aleeknives ok just something to think about like with the dagger you just did

[@jeffkushen5586]

If it works, I want to buy a billet!

[@Aleeknives]

That's awesome! If it works I need to figure out how to make longer billets!

[@GuiltyMalice]

Are you using mig or flux core to weld the billet together? Also how the hell does something like this even work? How can copper and steel forge weld together?

[@Aleeknives]

This is mig. I think it's actually more like brazing the steel together than welding together

[@GuiltyMalice]

@@Aleeknives yes that makes sense, thanks for the info.

[@AnubisJuice]

I have a sneaky suspicion that it split in the quench as the whole of the blade went in but that is because I have been watching stainless steel/carbon steel san mai videos, and that is where they usually fail.

[@Aleeknives]

Dude I sure hope not! I will see tonight, after the kids go to bed I am going to grind it up! We will see!

[@AnubisJuice]

@@Aleeknives I hope so as well, but I'm traumatized by those videos.

[@Aleeknives]

Yep me to

[@filosce7191]

Hi! what is the thickness of copper??

[@Glenfilthie1]

What?!? A cliff hanger??? Aaron you shit! 😂

[@Aleeknives]

I decided to do a sneak peak video! It will be live tomorrow morning!

[@chrisgilbert3305]

Sure, post vid while I'm at lunch, lol

[@Aleeknives]

😂😂trying something new!

[@andyc750]

suspect it has worked, not done it but logically if the voids weren't full then it wouldn't have leaked copper, just a case of if it is even all through the billet

[@Aleeknives]

Interesting ideas andy! I hope it worked! I will be able to find out later tonight!

[@andyc750]

@@Aleeknives will await the results with interest, roll on when you get the next video out lol

[@Aleeknives]

I am going to start posting update pictures on my community feed so my subscribers don't have to wait for the video to drop!

[@andyc750]

@@Aleeknives cool

[@alexandertrotsky1506]

At least put that it’s a part one in your video description please. This has been click bait.

[@Aleeknives]

All of the parts are available to view, no click bait here

[@alexandertrotsky1506]

@@Aleeknives I was click baited. No sneak peak of anything. Just forging.