Cursed From The Start - The Tragedy of Halo Infinite

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Halo 5: Guardians proved divisive amongst longtime fans who were disappointed that series protagonist Master Chief didn’t serve as the sole playable hero. Out of the backlash came a lesson for developer 343 Industries, resulting in the team establishing a new pillar for the brand going forward, which centered on paying homage to the Halo that Xbox gamers fell in love with years prior. Thus, the shooter that later bore the name Infinite returned Chief to the forefront.
The studio acted upon a few other ambitions as well, chiefly exploring a more open-ended gameplay structure and free-to-play multiplayer. It all manifested courtesy of engineers dedicating a good chunk of development to building a new set of proprietary tools, the SlipSpace Engine. However, admittedly insufficient management and a rash of technical shortcomings nearly prevented Halo Infinite from reaching its true potential, evidenced by the ill-fated Ascension demo that debuted during Xbox’s 2020 Games Showcase. As opposed to the fast-paced gameplay 343 Industries focused on showing off, poor visuals received the brunt of public attention, giving rise to internet memes and the game’s one-year-long delay out of the Xbox Series X|S launch window.
But even that delay and its subsequent improvements couldn’t ensure Halo Infinite left a positive and lasting impression on series die hards. Several post-launch woes plagued the experience, particularly on the multiplayer front, yet again inciting discussions about whether or not Halo was in good hands.
This is the Tragedy of Halo Infinite.
Chapters
0:00 Intro
2:06 Sponsorship
3:29 The Tragedy of Halo Infinite
26:14 Credits
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[@GVMERS]

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[@Based_Stuhlinger]

You guys should do the Red Faction games! They're a perfect series to cover for you guys as I know you'd do it justice.

[@lucass9328]

I remember when Rise of Kingdoms first came out, I was one of the first players pretty much. It was very fun, fresh and unique take on those types of games, it made its own mark and I'm not even surprised it's so successful because it really is a fun and interesting game.

[@kevynhansyn2902]

​@@Based_StuhlingerI think the red faction games are in their old videography.

[@CMDR_Elizium51RA]

😊😊

[@workoutandread]

gvmers with the mid as fuck ads as usual for the most dogshit games. Kinda ironic how you talk about bad games and then you shill the worst games being made today.

[@Jellybob69]

It’s insane how everyone initially loved Infinite and were willing to accept it’s bad launch if it meant 343 were going to patch everything quickly, and instead it took them 18 months to get it into an even remotely acceptable launch state. Ridiculous.

[@Ronbotnik]

which is insane when 18 months is now an eternity in our current landscape. for reference, elden ring is about 18 months old. look at how much huge stuff has dropped since then! and their next game is already coming out next month! idk wtf 343 & microsoft were thinking when they sent Infinite out to die like that

[@sirdarkon4517]

they outsource too much

[@lutherheggs451]

But yet mentally deficient people seem to think that MS should be able to purchase the entire gaming industry....They're all for MS purchasing massive publishing houses and all of their properties like Zenimax and Activision, so they can get their free WelfarePass games

[@alexschneider8494]

@@lutherheggs451Cope and seethe

[@Jackraiden500]

​​​@@Ronbotnik um elden ring was in a pretty shoddy state at launch as well to be fair, especially on pc. Bleed weapons didn't work at launch and many npc questlines were unfinished. Pvp was a mess. Granted fromsoft actually fixed it fairly quickly while the devs at 343 seemed to be sleeping the entire time.

[@Aragorn7884]

Just imagine if this got released on the _ORIGINAL_ release date 😬😬😬

[@GodOfWarConnoisseur]

_Woah_ _i_ didn't know you could _italicize_ on *KZbin*

[@GodOfWarConnoisseur]

*_?_*

[@GodOfWarConnoisseur]

You can do *_BOTH_*

[@IHJello]

*_this is_* _-not-_ *_both_*

[@Superunknown190]

It probably would’ve looked like, and ran, like an N64 game.

[@Davis_237]

Adding Locke to Halo 5 wasn't the problem, Halo 2 added the arbiter after all, it was 343 marketing department lying to us selling a story of chief going renegade and Locke being sent to bring him back, but instead what we got was a 40 second fight cinematic between Locke and Chief, and a bland rogue AI story with you fighting the Warden again after you already fought him several times before.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Exactly

[@user-73a]

Halo 6 was bad for ma years reasons, no co-op, bullet desync, free to play, etc. The one thing they did right was the ability to... wait there wasn't anything

[@LeMicronaut]

Yep, that and the busted squad ai and lack of splitscreen

[@LeMicronaut]

​@@user-73atechnically it was forge 3.0 with some pc implementation but i didn't want to renew my xbox live gold to stay around and experience it lol.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@user-73a infinite improved y the following things over h4/5: Textures Marine AI Boss fights/less QTE's and cutscene blue balling That's it. Everything else was worse. Weapon sandbox, music, characters, plot, movement mechanics, sound design, vehicles, multiplayer, dialogue, exposition, atmosphere, set pieces, level design, STORY and SETTING

[@TheLH86]

I think the co op loss was even more egregious considering someone managed to mod it in, just using existing files in the game already, leading many to question just why it was cut at all.

[@igungfarben9612]

GREED

[@galutdiaspora2678]

2023 still not campaign coop splitscreen ??? We had that in 2001 with halo 1

[@Srab23]

The reason split screen stopped being made is because graphics were pushed too far. Having two cameras in a scene increases the amount of objects needed to be rendered, having a big cost on performance. Because graphics apparently are more important than gameplay it was probably cut. Modders don't need to care about performance.

[@akush42069]

@@Srab2330 fps is perfectly fine for a coop benchmark

[@user-kv8zn8bj7p]

@@akush42069 tell that to the performance snobs

[@Gatherway]

I must say, watching the game franchise that was one of the core pillars in my formative years of gaming crumble into a sad pile of dust and failure has been quite the trip.

[@gtrblackhawk]

What happens when females run franchises…

[@cosmictreason2242]

We can always speak out for a reboot that retcons 343

[@gtrblackhawk]

@@cosmictreason2242 that’s exactly what I’ve been saying. Retcon everything 343i did that includes halo CEA. That is the only way to move forward with this franchise otherwise we are just going to keep dealing with the same shit

[@Genesiscoupe3000]

This is what happens when you have a WOMAN in charge! And yet they STILL refuse to replace her!!!

[@Genesiscoupe3000]

This is what happens when you have a WOMAN in charge! And yet they STILL refuse to replace her!!!

[@EMHearst]

How Bonnie Ross kept her job for so long is beyond me.

[@mikegaruda4270]

Probably she is fucking with a big shark.

[@shroomanox]

womyn

[@jvjv3061]

This is because * Halo MCC was a success on consoles and later on PC, * Halo 5 Guardians was played on a long period and got the biggest Halo World Championship prize pool for a console esport championship thanks to the success of REQ cards * Halo Infinite got a good metacritic (87) and was the best multiplayer in 2021 (BF 2042 and COD were disapointing that year) * Halo Infinite got 20 millions players in less than 2 months, which never happened in the whole History of Halo * Halo Infinite was the GOTY of the players at the Game Awards 2021. * the Halo Series was a huge success for Paramount+ that got +21% of subscribers (33 millions => 40 millions) at the launch of the show.

[@omarhegab]

@@jvjv3061were disappointing* sorry If I bothered you by pointing that out.

[@mattbuergel8487]

@@jvjv3061 Not the person you're responding to, but wanted to just point out that MCC was an absolute travesty at launch and for 6+ months after. The rest of your points are solid though.

[@BainesMkII]

I remember the response to Halo 4 being more mixed, and people were concerned about story design and direction, gameplay design and direction, general game quality, and really pretty much every aspect of the future of the Halo franchise under 343. For some, the issues with Master Chief Collection was simply an affirmation of already held concerns.

[@nairocamilo]

Same. Definitely not "mostly positive"

[@RedCommunistDragon]

Most Halo games have had mixed reactions. The only games that haven’t (FPS games at least) are CE and 3.

[@PineappleStickers]

@@nairocamilo for sure. Halo 4's reaction back in 2012 was waaaay lower than "mostly positive". It was so divisive it pretty much put everyone into a cautious state of concern, waiting to see if 343 intended to continue down that road or would return to form. For a lot of people, myself included, it was the last Halo game they played as just seeing the trailers for 5 was enough to know it was just downhill from there on out

[@OKMBVideos]

​@@RedCommunistDragonthat's mostly true for people on communities like Reddit or 4chan, where they're so incredibly tiny that they don't represent anywhere close to all players. Halo 4 was the first Halo game with online multiplayer that dropped 60% of all players in less than a year. Halo 3 stayed in the first spot of the Top 10 for 3 years post launch

[@LeMicronaut]

​​@@RedCommunistDragoneah halo 2 did have some backlash from what I heard. The issue is Halo 4 was the first Halo where an added featureset or aspect of the experience did not outweigh the negatives (h2 introduced xbox live despite being abyssmally balanced in single player and loaded with bugs and online exploits, reach had forge world and best customization despite very controversial weapons changes and some very busted armor pickup loadouts, odst had arguably the best campaign and introduced firefight despite being the worst value per dollar in the series.

[@Cpl.AdrianShepard]

The moment i heard them say "Free to play multiplayer" my heart skipped a beat. I felt it was doomed, or as one alien would say "that stench, ive smelt it before."

[@Genesiscoupe3000]

This is what happens when you have a WOMAN in charge! And yet they STILL refuse to replace her!!!

[@StatisticColt]

@@Genesiscoupe3000they replaced her 10 months ago.

[@LordLOC]

@@Genesiscoupe3000 Wow. Yeah, blame everything on her because she's a woman. Not because she and others made BAD decisions, which have nothing to do with being a man or woman. But no problem, let all them womens stay in the kitchen where they belong. Right?

[@dimaz3]

​@@Genesiscoupe3000Yeah cause a team led by a man never turned out poor..you are a weirdo dude.

[@TheErikjsm]

​@@Genesiscoupe3000calm down incel

[@JTReviewsPlus]

It’s crazy how Halo Infinite released with less content and updates than other Halo titles that released more than a DECADE ago!

[@SomeKindaSpy]

Everything 343 has puked out has not been made with passion or love, but by amateurs being forced to make what corporate is telling them to.

[@dawsynasay4841]

You can say that about most shooters nowadays.

[@Genesiscoupe3000]

@@SomeKindaSpy This is what happens when you have a WOMAN in charge! And yet they STILL refuse to replace her!!!

[@user-73a]

It's crazy how Halo Infinite is worse than Halo 5!

[@phanto6599]

@@Genesiscoupe3000if you are talking about Bonnie Ross, they did replace her. Like a whole year ago lol

[@kagelynx]

Original Halo was also popular due to its split-screen/couch coop. Removing that feature removed a reason to buy.

[@vforvendettas2898]

Exactly and they lied about it

[@zstandsforzorro4716]

I’m still furious there’s no offline splitcreen a DISGRAC E

[@Silent.Watcher]

I bought MCC on pc believing it have/gonna have splitscreen. I still can't believe they ditch that completely.

[@brucespringsteen4467]

@@Silent.Watcher same here 343 seem con artists

[@mgf909]

I’d say about 60% of us halo fans buy the game because of split screen/co-op. They screwed over the majority of us…

[@HeisenbergFam]

Its so nostalgic to think about Halo being a gaming champion back in 2000s, time flies

[@Ronbotnik]

it is a bit sad seeing halos corpse still be paraded around, when its time is long past... time does indeed fly

[@Cpl.AdrianShepard]

I remember my dad dropping CE on my lap and asked if i wanted to play "A super soldier fighting aliens on a ring or something idk." Little did we know what masterpiece was plopped on me.

[@vforvendettas2898]

Campaign was SO short and No campaign coop splitscreen like the mcc ??

[@zstandsforzorro4716]

❤

[@JackaWilko]

One video, as a Halo fan, I wished I'd never see I'm going to enjoy this Gvmers video even if it kills me

[@griffingamer8624]

Just be a fan of the originals. You don't have to recognize the 343 made games.

[@katanafourzeronine]

You and me both, mate.

[@extremedee7320]

halo infinite is a good game. Don't let other people's chances how you feel about it.

[@yutro213]

You wil Survive!

[@EXiLExJD]

​@@griffingamer8624 fr, after I played Halo 4 the series was dead to me. The only good thing 343 has done is the MCC and that took about a year to get decent for what is essentially a remaster of pre-existing content.

[@MakeItPerfectlyWrong]

The reception to CEA and 4 were NOT as kind as made out in this video Artstyle changes for both and core gameplay for 4 drove many players away, fast. Halo 4s multiplayer died fast due to the Codification of the gameplay. Legendary Slayer would not come out to fix it until too late

[@terminatrix92]

I always felt 4&5 butchered the visual style of halo whilst bringing in way too much Lore. I appreciate that the books have always suggested a deeper history and weirder world but keep it out of the games! If you cant shoot it then it doesnt belong in Halo. Bosses that deliver monologues and then die in cutscenes...

[@BingFox]

When I got the MCC on Steam it wasn't long before I switched CE to the original graphics. At least they allowed you to do that. I wish other remasters did the same. Also, while I was playing ODST, I couldn't help but feel like I was playing Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. The graphics, visor stuff, and even the Engineers remind me of Metroid Hatchers. Sure enough, quite a few people from Retro Studios got jobs working on ODST.

[@SomeKindaSpy]

@@terminatrix92 To be honest, it's gotten to the point where I don't even consider 343 lore canon. Anything Frank O'Connor has added to the franchise I don't care about or consider canon.

[@Deliveredmean42]

​@@terminatrix92don't you mean lore that contradicts prior lores? If anything that is the detractors as to why it's not as good as prior games, and I am sure there was a flaw pillarsin it's creation and its why people want the old aspects of lore back and retcon the 343 parts over the years.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Forerunners are ancient humans

[@neonsoldier117]

I remember the old days in Halo. Going over to your friends house & bringing your controller. Tiny 4 boxes that we all played in on the Xbox. I miss it.

[@covert0overt_810]

“those were good times bros... we’re jolly green giants walking the earth. with guns...”

[@houseofguelph8825]

Still no coop splitcreen its a disgrace

[@houseofguelph8825]

Still no offline coop splitscreen - July 2023 ???? Disgrace

[@galutdiaspora2678]

2023 still not campaign coop splitscreen ??? We had that in 2001 with halo 1

[@covert0overt_810]

@@galutdiaspora2678 the wokies cant be bothered .... you need skins and transactions...

[@zstandsforzorro4716]

SPLITSCREEN ?? Where is it ???? I paid 50 for something I don’t want

[@thez28camaroman]

1. People didn't hate Halo 5 because Chief took a backseat. They hated it because the story sucked and the levels weren't fun. The multiplayer, conversely, is actually well regarded. 2. Halo CE Anniversary is much maligned, not well regarded. The "remastered" visuals were criticized en-mass for being unfaithful and simple re-uses of already existing textures. With classic graphics being incorrect due to shader errors from the original PC port, CE Anniversary was only rectified within the last couple of years.

[@sxnctum]

For real. Imagine making a halo video when you're so out of touch with the community and peoples complaints

[@InfectiousViper]

Exactly. If that was the case with Halo 5, then people would hate Halo 3: ODST and Halo 2. Yet those are arguably the best Halo games, despite not playing as Chief.

[@MaxiemumKarnage]

Multiplayer is ass and the fact people think it's good is just ridiculous

[@user-73a]

I disagree with that opinion, everyone loved the gameplay of Halo 5 and the story was much more memorable than Infinite was. We all pretty much have agreed on that.

[@user-73a]

@Riorozen Replace Halo 5 with Halo Infinite and you would finally have people agreeing with you, Free to play to get all the Fortnite kids is not better than eliminating pc cheaters by disabling cross-platform like Halo 5 did.

[@horusbaals6206]

Where’s splitscreen coop even Halo 1 had splitscreen coop we all used to play offline for nothing but fun 20 years ago

[@KnightLightXL]

Halo Infinte was the greatest missed chance of the series career, 343 is the king of botch now fix later, I am happy where Halo Infinite is going now but the loss it suffered can't heal, it will only be a scar

[@TheErikjsm]

yeah first impressions matter, it might be in a pretty good spot now overall but recovering the playerbase is next to impossible

[@Specter_1125]

@@TheErikjsmthe average player base has been growing overtime recently

[@TheErikjsm]

@@Specter_1125 not really a high bar though but i guess its something, wish it had just been a 60/70$ title i think that would have gone over way better. making a live service game then having no service basicly killed the game. shame too since it had a solid foundation

[@gtylerbrown2]

​@@Specter_1125for a game that was supposed to be a consoles flagship multiplayer those numbers are still pretty low.

[@LeMicronaut]

​​@@TheErikjsmf they charged people full price it would've been approaching no man's sky levels of rage. Maybe they would've invested more permanent devs, but the acclimation time on their setup still would've trsulted in 9 minths of delay. But yeah, we do need to return to paid map packs, cosmetic stores have derailed game studios.

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

The "Fear Halo won't feel like Halo" line had me tears. Halo didn't feel like Halo since 343 took over.

[@vforvendettas2898]

I only bought it to play at home with the kids in campaign coop split screen. …. We’re still waiting

[@alantracy6757]

Exactly what a rip off it was

[@jmartin687]

343 murdered one of the best game franchises of all time

[@Dd-fb2tj]

Get a life

[@revan5293]

Fire 343. New studio,new engine,new halo

[@Dd-fb2tj]

@@revan5293 grow up

[@porpoisecovid1996]

2023 still not campaign coop splitscreen ??? We had that in 2001 with halo 1

[@metalmayfantasy]

There is still split screen in the multiplayer, as it has been there since launch (4 player split screen and 2 player online), it's just sad the coop split screen was canceled. Esports scene has ruined multiplayer for many games, it works with cod and team based shooters, but many people could not care less about leaderboards or how many k/d's they have. I wish fun multiplayer would come back because that's why I fell in love with shooters, fps/3rd person shooters multiplayer used to be fun.

[@alicatdotcom]

Have you tried Battle Bit Remastered? It's the most fun first person shooter currently! Brings me back to the good ol' days 😊

[@galutdiaspora2678]

2023 still no campaign coop splitscreen ??? We had that in 2001 with halo 1

[@galutdiaspora2678]

Halo went backwards 20 years with infinite and halo 5

[@JacksCommercialGodhead]

I can just picture the campaign pitch meeting going like this. "What does everyone want in a Halo game?" "Far Cry, but it's on a ring world and Cortana makes cutesy jokes now" "Boom, nothing but net, that's lunch".

[@Genesiscoupe3000]

This is what happens when you have a WOMAN in charge! And yet they STILL refuse to replace her!!!

[@YarugumaSou]

By cutesy jokes, you mean cringe mcu jokes.

[@Horgler]

@@Genesiscoupe3000 Didn't Bonnie Ross leave last year? Regardless, I can't help but remember that one group picture of all the female 343 staff. It just further cements that games aren't made by passionate nerds with a vision anymore.

[@xacslayerx3014]

Also Kiki Wolfkill chimes in "I want a scene where chief talks about his feelings and how he gets sad sometimes" "Yeah sure we can squeeze something in"

[@shroomanox]

@@Genesiscoupe3000 Put Kathleen Kennedy in charge of the sequel

[@caifrootz2537]

I remember that last month before they shut down the Xbox 360 Halo servers for the last time in 2021, that to me kinda signified the end of Halo. I tried so hard to stay invested in Infinite but can't do it, the terrible TV Series was just the nail in the coffin from my point of view, we had a good run Spartans

[@freelancerthe2561]

The TV series deserves its video. This reminds me of this discussion about how companies think brands have power in name alone; and that whats under it is interchangeable. This adds a sprinkle of irony; as this is one of the reasons actors don't like hiding their faces. Pedro Pascal wanted Mando's helmet off, because he had a concern that Disney could change him out at any time if he wasn't more directly associated with the character. I bet the guy that MC had a similar thing going on.

[@jimhot7790]

I have to repeat what others are saying offline Splitcreen coop have never arrived the ONLY reason I paid 60 dollars for this crap,. My friends and I waited and waited and nothing

[@K_FI_L_Y_P_S_O]

343 needs to go. We've given them plenty of chances. It's time to have a new studio give it a try because 343 isn't working, at least for me.

[@RedCommunistDragon]

Have you been under a rock for the past 10 months? Bonnie Ross, Frank O Connor, Kiki Wolfkill are gone and Pierre Hintze (the man who literally turned MCC from the broken mess that it was into the awesome game it is now) is at the helm.

[@OKMBVideos]

​@@RedCommunistDragonThat's not gonna fix the problem. Bonnie Ross, Frank and Kiki had control of the studio for over 10 years. The company culture is absolutely tainted by their presence, because they've been hiring FTEs that agree with and what to do things their way. Pierre is gonna have an uphill battle to convince any of those people that Bonnie, Frank and Kiki weren't absolutely right with the direction this series was taking

[@RedCommunistDragon]

@@OKMBVideos Most of those FTEs were also fired and as we can see with Infinite similar to MCC, it’s slowly improving. Slowly yes but improving.

[@malazan6004]

​@@RedCommunistDragonit's still 343 why even keep the name and structure in any way shape or form? Should have been a clean slate the 343 name is beyond tainted

[@RedCommunistDragon]

@@malazan6004 The same reason other companies don’t charge their names, there’s no point.

[@carljung9489]

I used to play in 2001 we had so much more in halo then splitscreen coop offline we would all play together for FREE

[@igungfarben9612]

Yep remember it

[@XieRH1988]

Halo 2 let you play as arbiter and there wasn't any backlash over that. The Halo 5 issue wasn't a "play as someone else other than Chief" problem, it was a "locke and his team were super bland and the story in general was poorly written" problem.

[@NFS0038]

Supposedly there was some contention at the time especially before the game'e release, but those people must have STFU quickly because now Halo 2 is held by most as having the best story in the entire series.

[@everythingsalright1121]

People didnt like arby back then but im noticing more and more that as the years have gone on the halo fanbase has much more nostalgia (or perhaps rose tinted glasses) for the older games. Though a weird case exists for halo 3, cause people loved it back then but now people point out its flaws a lot more now, as if to somehow counterbalance the nostalgia for the older games. The halo fanbase is weird...and ill say that as someone who got into gaming cause of halo 2

[@user-73a]

You must be too young to remember but lots of people hated playing as the Arbiter and they let Bungie know about it, that's why he is only a co-op option in Halo 3. Also I disagree with your opinion, Buck and Vale were pretty cool characters tbh

[@user-73a]

@@Riorozen You are a vocal but tiny part of Halo, Enjoy Halo Infinite since you complained enough to change the end of the trilogy. Reap what you sow.

[@user-73a]

@Riorozen BTW you have 0 likes on your opinion, I have 4. Learn what minority is please.

[@vforvendettas2898]

Where is halo infinite campaign co-op split screen?? It’s been 2 years now wtf

[@tacticalpossum7090]

Its hard to believe that 343 could screw up so badly that fans like me who were OBSESSED with this series wouldnt play, but here we are. They did everything wrong.

[@jvjv3061]

Everything wrong ? But how 343 * got a success on its port of Halo MCC on PC ? * got the biggest Halo World Championship prize pool for a console esport championship thanks to the success of REQ cards of Halo 5 ? * got a good metacritic (87) for Halo Infinite which was the best multiplayer in 2021 compared to BF 2042 and COD that year ? * got 20 millions players in less than 2 months on Halo Infinite, which never happened in the whole History of Halo ? * got the GOTY of the players at the Game Awards 2021 for Halo Infinite ? * got a huge success for Paramount+ that had +21% of subscribers (33 millions => 40 millions) at the Halo Series launch ? 343 Industries did not failed everything. Those kind of videos are not honest because they forget many facts.

[@A1stardan]

​​@@jvjv3061h yes, comparing them to BF2042 and cod that year and beating them is a win😂 gtfoh It's like boasting my crap is bigger than urs. It's shit either way. Halo series increased paramount sub numbers is an achievement? Why the fuck does it matter if the show is bad? We aren't investors of paramount studios to feel happy for that. You told it had 20mil players, now watch the steam charts few months after that. It couldn't even reach 100k

[@d7656]

@@jvjv3061343 has practically failed the franchise, just admit it already. It’ll never reach the heights it had with Bungie in charge

[@jvjv3061]

@@d7656 343i managed to get more Halo players and on more platforms. This is just facts.

[@revan5293]

Fire 343

[@Omega4Productions]

19:24. Small correction, but Staten didn’t write Halo 3. He was on sabbatical at the time and that was actually when he was writing the book Halo: Contact Harvest.

[@Makoto03]

Halo Infinite was my first Halo experience. I thought it was decent but not great and i can see the disappointment from actual fans. The open world in campaign felt lifeless. There was no variety. The entire planet looked the same, no matter where you were on the map. That is ridiculous.

[@EmanAugust]

sorry that was your first halo experience 😅

[@loke801]

A big aspect of the lifeless feel to it is because your supposed to feel like your rebuilding the UNSC on Zeta Halo, but you never see the end result of that in the actual story. So all the time you spent capturing FOBs and freeing Marines feels like wasted busywork.

[@bobby_c07]

Even worse are the missions. Nothing memorable about them at all. It would have almost been hard to tell when they started and ended if it weren't for them all being in the most boring locations ever created in a Halo game.

[@galutdiaspora2678]

2023 still nocampaign coop splitscreen ??? We had that in 2001 with halo 1. Halo 1-4 all tons better than infinite

[@NFS0038]

Go play a Halo from back when games were called "games" and not "experiences"

[@andimari9194]

This is even worse when you remember that both battlefield and cod had MASSIVE Ls from their games, so halo had a chance to take the victory easily

[@JayBaddAssCutler]

Cannot stress how much I love that this channel exists and keeps posting.

[@bounceycake1]

As a die hard Halo fan this one really hurt man...

[@Milesamanjaro]

Same...but it needed to be said

[@igungfarben9612]

I thought it was a poor campaign, way too short and NO splitscreen coop must have killed the game for most older fans who play offline at home

[@SeanJohn127]

It got old fast. It was same thing over and over, and everything looked the same

[@lilbubz2803]

@seanfhou What? You’re telling me you don’t like walking around Rocks and Hexagons for hours? What if I through a random banished base in there to spice things up?

[@Barbaroossa]

"Insufficient management" - now that's the kindest euphemism I've ever seen. What we're talking about here is brutal incompetence, bordering on maliciousness.

[@LateNightHalo]

Some of the most passionate and enthusiastic individual developers who worked under some of the most disorganized, misguided and inept management. Halo infinite could have been great had the leadership not put them on the wrong foot instantly when development started

[@EhEhEhEINSTEIN]

The whole thing about 50% of the team being contract workers that were hired for 18 months max, no exceptions, just seems like the dumbest bit of corporate leadership tripping over dollars to pick up cents I've ever heard of. Hope they saved a lot of money not having long-tenured, salaried employees for all those extra months it took the contract workers to put the game together.

[@arturoz6547]

​@@EhEhEhEINSTEINwait, for real? thats stupid as fuck. 18 month workers

[@LeMicronaut]

​@@EhEhEhEINSTEINthe cosmetics sales, with how inflated they are, have probably shored up that concern just fine, unfortunately.

[@EvilPhoenix007]

"A group of people at 343 are responsible for these beautiful creatons (Spartan Armor) When I find those people I will kiss the ground they walk on" - Late Night Halo: Paid shill and Forerunner for 343.

[@EhEhEhEINSTEIN]

@@LeMicronaut Oh probably.. But Halo is one of those franchises that, if they got it right, makes $Billions not millions. Peak steam players was over 250k and they're usually around 5k these days. Idk about xbox numbers but someone who understands $ at MS has to be looking at that and thinking.. Fuck

[@michiganjack1337]

Halo Infinite & Battlefield 2042 did one thing for certain they both cemented (in my eyes) the death of both these franchises. They were both marketed as returning to what made them both great with the messaging being, "We've learned from our mistakes and have listened to the fanbase." They did neither and in fact produced something worse than what had ever previously been made prior.

[@antpalmer5856]

AC Mirage seems to be following suit, which is concerning

[@bosyogurtlight]

Well, Battlefield 2042 had an even worse launch than Halo Infinite and is still more popular right now, which is pathetic for Halo Infinite because bugs weren't the main problem all this time

[@firebird4491]

What's frustrating is that Halo Infinite has a much better foundation than Halo 5 but launched feature incomplete and have completely fucked up the live service aspect of the game. A wasted opportunity.

[@YumiiSauce]

honestly battlefield 5 is one of my favorite battlefield games. the shooting is fantastic and the tanks moving to a more of a support role working in tandem with infantry was a good change.

[@michiganjack1337]

@@YumiiSauce Yeah BF5 wasn't bad, I liked the fortifications and the base game felt good. Unfortunately the game suffered from the updates, if they would've released the updates first on a CTE client like they had done previously could've avoided a lot of unnecessary headaches.

[@massivechafe]

Halo could easily be restored with a small group of strong-willed experienced creatives at the helm who grew up living breathing Bungie's halo

[@northernseeker1822]

Hire former Bungie developers.

[@Srab23]

Halo is in the hands of the money men, and they make the decisions.

[@massivechafe]

@@Srab23 yes exactly, it's stuck in a place with people who don't understand it

[@SteadyAscension]

The problem is the multiplayer is actually broken sometimes. From hit detection, to meleeing someone and you both die, or shooting someone who is completely de-shielded and they don’t die. I actually think the content is alright, but it’s inexcusable when the game feels broken

[@HelloMrK]

I haven’t played Halo since 2009. I do regret having never played Reach but, I think I left at the right time and can just be nostalgic about my childhood.

[@brup123]

For those who grew up with Halo 1-3, you absolutely left at the right time. Reach is definitely leaps ahead of Halo 4, 5 and Infinite, but it was a disappointment compared to Halo 1-3. The core multiplayer had so many flaws due to large changes to the gameplay (Bungie seeing it as their last chance to experiment with the Halo formula before leaving to make Destiny - and it didn't work out IMO). The campaign was great, but not as replayable as Halo 1-3 imo. The only thing Reach was the best at compared to the original trilogy was Forge, so custom games were a lot more fun and diverse. But as an entire package, Reach was a good time to step away from Halo. From Halo 4 onwards it's just painful.

[@djhollis8841]

@@brup123I have to respectfully disagree that Reach was a disappointment. Yes, it’s different and more grounded thematically, but the darker tone really makes the universe feel real. Both the campaign and multiplayer are the pinnacle of Halo in my eyes. Yeah they tried new things like armor abilities, which eventually transformed into Destiny multiplayer, but they stayed true to the Halo formula. 343 is still struggling to replicate that feeling.

[@YashayahTheAlmighty]

u didnt miss much reach was the worst out of those halo games 1-3 was good enough

[@JTReviewsPlus]

Phil Spencer once said if they lost their way with Halo then they lost their way with Xbox… he’s absolutely right because the only thing keeping Xbox relevant is Game Pass and the hope of a successful Starfield launch.

[@BossBrownsugar]

They just bought Activision lol

[@halucinujte]

so they have call of duty and the corpse of blizzard yay

[@shecklesmack9563]

@@BossBrownsugar Everything other than Call of Duty from Activision is mostly relevant to PC. Even Call of Duty has seen better days and it will continue to be released on PlayStation (and Nintendo platforms) for the foreseeable future. Their strategy clearly isn't to help the Xbox brand because the purchase of Activision isn't really going to do anything to help them.

[@stridix007]

@@BossBrownsugar the real winner is Bobby

[@OKMBVideos]

​@@shecklesmack9563I mean the presence of the IP and being able ot do something with those IPs is a MASSIVE boon. For context, Microsoft has Starcraft, Crash Bandicoot, Warcraft, and a bunch of other high profile IPs. They can do anything they want with them at this point.

[@A7XKoRnRocks1]

Sad, just sad. Halo Infinite was a breathe of fresh air and everyone was so hyped, the first delay it got for an entire year was news enough that it's likely going to fail.

[@JAIMEGARCIA-gw9re]

10-20 people made Halo Combat Evolved. Over 300 people made Halo Infinite and couldn't manage to do what a team of twenty did.

[@darkstarmkv]

They explained that the turn over was high and a lot of contract workers were involved. That pretty much explains why it was such a rough development cycle.

[@JAIMEGARCIA-gw9re]

@@darkstarmkv As the saying goes: too many cooks in the kitchen. Smaller teams have more cohesion, generally speaking. One person in charge. One vision. Bigger teams without great management, leads to fragmented development, because everyone has their idea of what the game should be.

[@GAMEFREAK330]

I want to see a GVMER rise and fall of Archeage. I had 5000 hours in that game only to be driven away by bad monetization/management. As always great video!

[@Genesiscoupe3000]

Please go touch some grass kid! 5000 hours is BEYOND sad!

[@GAMEFREAK330]

@@Genesiscoupe3000 lmao that is just one game my dude. Also I am plenty traveled I've seen enough grass to give your ass a rash.

[@halucinujte]

​@@Genesiscoupe3000stop judging and go on with your life❤

[@BobBobOnYouTube]

343 couldn't make an open world game but FromSoftware managed to do it with Elden Ring with less money, a smaller team and shorter development time.

[@LeMicronaut]

To 343's credit elden ring has a lot less going on ai and game physics wise. Elden ring was also building on a sturdy foundation instead of being a panicked pivot for saving a franchise.

[@everythingsalright1121]

@@LeMicronaut also developing slipspace engine did not help at all. While from software always just uses iterations of stuff already in use. Theyre entirely different games and its not fair to compare them

[@EYO117]

Literally all 343 had to do this whole time was develope and release CAMPAIGN DLC for Infinite's beautiful open world. A gripping story with beautiful visuals is all they would need to provide to keep real fans interested.

[@hiroshiarturolopezsashida6071]

Idk it prob wouldn’t be enough

[@everythingsalright1121]

Its too little too late for most people who were/are into halo. People arent unhappy with halo now...theyre apathetic. And winning back fans that have been burned so many times already is much harder than winning back fans that have been disappointed once.

[@GeremyG]

I can’t help but wonder what the game would have looked like if it released a year earlier when it was supposed to originally.

[@gtrblackhawk]

The game didn’t even exist back then. It was just as much of a patch work as the Halo 2 preview back in 2003. Fun fact as I’ve pointed out in other videos if you go back and play that mission the pelican is just T posing above the ground. They haven’t even touched the game in that regard it’s easily to spot

[@richarde.9411]

To me, the last Halo was Reach. After that…

[@hiroshiarturolopezsashida6071]

I really thought they could improve on the next sequels but everything just got worse

[@loz9324]

you know your game f'd up somewhere when you get a "Tragedy Of" GVMERS video

[@brup123]

You know your game f'd up when GVMERS makes a 30 minute video and doesn't even scrape the surface of the issues Infinite had/has, or how incompetent 343i has been.

[@K_FI_L_Y_P_S_O]

These are so well made. Can we get a Rise and Fall of TimeSplitters potentially? Or even the Tony Hawk Pro Skater series.

[@MrTimorous]

As someone who actually liked Halo Infinite from the looks to the feel (and still does), it hurts quite a bit to witness this all go down

[@sethvam]

I love your videos and was totally waiting for your next one. It's sad to see one of my favorite franchises receive the "tragedy" treatment though. Thanks for sharing your indeep insights.

[@mccaulkiner166]

Its sad how much such a great franchise has fallen

[@kklum6998]

I do not know why when make any video topic on the channel I always watch it from the beginning till the end. Even though it is half an hour long I still sit through it listening to you narrate. Maybe it is how you string along the story connecting each relevant detail piece by piece with precise points that all of it comes to unravel in the end that makes it so interesting. Or maybe it is your voice that is unconsciously hypnotic. Kudos.

[@zacrast16]

I’m still waiting for Master Chief to wake up….. Because we need him.

[@TheMartyODonnell]

Correction: Joe Staten was Creative Director on ODST not Reach.

[@ryangoslngfr]

Hi Marty

[@cyphaborg6598]

They would've done much better with Staten from the get-go. He knows what made it an excellent IP and I feel like nobody left at 343i really did.

[@brup123]

They needed the OG gameplay/sandbox leads of Halo 2 and 3 though. Staten definitely understands Halo and how to bring out that magic, but him being creative director on Reach led to a lackluster multiplayer imo. Custom games and Forge was GOATed in Reach though. The well known guys like Joe and Marty definitely deserve huge credit, but the gameplay guys (I believe one of the main ones heads up Certain Affinity) deserve the most IMO, because they perfected the gameplay and knew exactly how to make the game fun.

[@amin6560]

Fumbling up this hard is truly a work of art, well done 343 the worst AAA studio to ever exist.

[@malazan6004]

Agree it's one of the worst out there handling a top tier franchise that was once loved by most. Disgraceful

[@paulclark6988]

Idk if I'd go that far, there have been worse. How's anthem doing are they still OK 🤣

[@shadow200343]

@paulclark6988 BioWare fumbled the ball pretty hard but still not as hard as Microsoft's pet studio that failed to deliver a good Halo experience 3 times in a row.

[@Accuaro]

4:12 Please no, no it wasn't. It bastardized the visuals in 343s vision, something that doesn't reflect the source game at all. Halo 2 anniversary was a faithful remaster.

[@abdelali9279]

The part where mentions the pains of a team brought to develope an engine and multiplayer is like the general problem with modern gaming all efforts and resources are centered on just that and when you try to force it into a primarily single player experience is what ends up hurting franchises like this

[@ryanmcglennon7214]

I think the biggest tragedy of Halo Infinite is that it is probably the best Halo game that 343 has developed but with their worst development cycle

[@user-73a]

They didn't launch the game with co-op and made multi-player free to ay for pc cheaters. By far its the worst of their trilogy that's just a fact tbh.

[@Lord_Tigerr]

⁠@@user-73aHalo 4 is overhated nowadays and the multiplayer for 5 is pretty good.

[@galutdiaspora2678]

2023 still not campaign coop splitscreen ??? We had that in 2001 with halo 1

[@ridebluemx]

Couldn’t agree more. The game at its core is really good. They just fumbled on things that shouldn’t have been missed.

[@philipemendes6026]

I think the biggest tragedy really is a fanbase that admits that rather not play an excelent game than keep bitching about the lack of content of the game in 2021.

[@felipecouto9726]

Man, as a major halo fan since its start on release date in og xbox.... Getting to see this video hurts. From one of the biggest and more innovative... to a empty carcass surrounded by color blocked for microgransactions. I may never be able to disconnect to this franchise since it made some of my dearest memories, but at this point in which i dont have any halo instaled... it clearly has been left behind by microsft. 343 since its start was not able to keep it. (And imho h4 was NOT anywhere close to well accepted from my experience, and numberwise its clear that the Cod-ization was an mistake) Infinte plays like heaven. But the game is a colossal failure to what it could be l, what it was at launch and what it is now. The franchise, imo, will not recover from this fall. Their lies, disrespect, their takes of which paths to take... halo maybe should have stoped at reach.

[@LeMicronaut]

MCC on pc has been an okay consolation prize. I feel really bad cause the 343 team with probably a sliver of the budget and a smaller install base (but higher player count ironically) has been able to keep the game from being irredeemably monetized and is restoring cut content from bungie days to make it a really unique anthology experience.

[@MaxiemumKarnage]

MCC, mostly fan mods, is the only thing by 343 that has any value

[@daltonburroughs3811]

343 tried to make Halo "theirs" instead of making a good Halo game all the way back at Halo 4. They changed Chief and Cortana's personalities so they were completely different people from the original games. 343 liked the idea of Halo more than what Halo already was and even went as far as hiring people who actively did not like Halo in an attempt to change it. I think all of this was inevitable with their mindset. Halo 4 is the worst Halo by far and Infinite was an attempted step in the right direction but poor management definitely hurt it.

[@LeMicronaut]

Knowing a bit more of behind the scenes I'm blaming Frankie. Dude just did not have the same spirit as the franchise and I think held a grudge against his betters (i.e. scrubbing marty from odst and replacing the easter egg with himself. 343 isn't bungie so the destiny music controversy didn't make sense as a cover)

[@everythingsalright1121]

I dont think making halo have more of a story was bad but it wasnt executed in a way that made it engaging. Cortana dying from rampancy and chief questioning his humanity now that the war he was raised for is gone are great plot points. But it just didnt get the direction it needed. Honestly they should have cut out a lot of stuff and focus on chief and cortana for 4 and 5. Didact is a character you have no idea who he is unless you read the forerunner books and blue team and osiris make halo 5 way too messy.

[@lilbubz2803]

343 Changing the Art Style in Halo 4 completely encapsulates their mindset when they took over. If it’s not broken, fix it. If they like it, change it. If they don’t like it, double down. If they want it, delay it.

[@game0wl]

Now that I think about it I believe Microsoft wanted to sabotage Halo ever since putting together 343I. Think about it 343 Guilty Spark was at first introduced as a potential ally but we quickly began to realize that Spark just wanted to use Chief all along to activate Halo and thus betray Chief. So overtime 343I hired talent that hated Halo but needed to crank out games that can compete with Call of Duty's massive sales at the time.

[@joniofark2042]

Where is splitcreen coop I only bought it to play with friends OFFLINE 343 lied it wasFRAUD

[@redvoco02]

Paying for the campaign should've made all cosmetics free

[@fondiblackpope9439]

SPLITSCREEN COOP ?????

[@joniofark2042]

Exactly where the f is it ?

[@randomassname445]

Excellent documentary!!!! Never stop GVMERS!!!!!

[@Kaimerah]

the fact that video like this exists and get so many views shows how much love halo has. the series could always easily bounce back. just needs a game that launches complete. that being said infinite is pretty fun now

[@mcredwolf925]

💯

[@ryanhawksley1779]

We needed this video and yet again GVMERS delivers when it matters most! 🙌

[@Nukeman1509]

Something I thought I'd add (as a Software Dev myself) is that tech debt can build up when not given the time or priority to mitigate it. It's rarely as cut and dry as bad engineers. Often new features get added to systems that weren't designed for it. And if the Product manager/Scrum Master/EM tell us to ignore it, there often isn't much we can't do. Sometimes its little things that wont matter, other times its program breaking errors. Without the autonomy to address them we're often forced to watch the snowball, till it inevitably overwhelms us.

[@DeadPixel1105]

This is one of my favorite channels when it comes to documentaries about the game industry. Every video is a masterpiece.

[@michelians1148]

Always funny how you guys say Kregg instead of Craig 😅

[@brendanroberts1310]

How they say Colin is even better

[@tommyswain3762]

@@brendanroberts1310 And Graam instead of Graham

[@lonewolf-re2fg]

In my opinion, Infinites biggest mistakes were making it free to play and making the campaign open world. Making it free caused all of the bs monetization and customization issues. Having an open world severely limits the story and gameplay in sense actually taking away more than it adds. I also often hear people say the core gameplay is great but personally while I think the movement is fine I think the weapon sandbox is just absolutely terrible. Everything feels bad to use aside from a few weapons like the Battle Rifle. A game should be balanced by making everything feel good not by making everything bad. It feels like everything is meant to be overly competitive and no longer fun. I think they listen to competitive gamers too much in the industry these days and it sucks the fun out of everything because game developers are so worried about balancing and appeasing the vocal minority. I've been a life long fan and played Halo everyday for years but now it's something I hardly touch in a rare while. There's been no greater fall from grace than Halo in the entire entertainment industry. I always say, Halo had a foot in the grave and Infinite was supposed to pull it out and save it, but it dove in head first instead.

[@igungfarben9612]

No splitcreen what a fing joke we had that back in 2001

[@2009XboxLiveKid]

very good video, you voice reminds me of the PBS Series Nova. brings back memories :)

[@117johnpar]

Mocap acting director to actors: "Grit and grimace your mouth as much and as often as possible"

[@Unchainedmaple888]

Halo: Very Finite Halo Infinite Disappointment Halo Infinite Spaghetti Code

[@Cj-xl3jv]

Halo: fuck yo split screenfinite

[@reddishcarp1237]

​​​@@Cj-xl3jvsplit screen is in Infinite

[@BIGNOIDS]

The perfect review scores for this game from some of the supposedly professional journalists was shocking.

[@adamwegner2520]

These are the same people that lauded the last of us part 2. After gamergate, nothing is sacred.

[@EvilPhoenix007]

I know IGN reviewer Ryan McCaffrey both reviewed and overhyped Halo 4 and Infinite using gaslighting tactics here on KZbin. Total paid shill.

[@malazan6004]

It's still mind blowing it got 87 on metacritic to this day... not just infinite but other games show how shady critic reviews are.

[@malazan6004]

​@@adamwegner2520why always bring Sony into it? I do agree though wasn't a fan of the sequel overall vs the original

[@everythingsalright1121]

Theres a reason gaming journalists got a bad rep. I tend to just trust user reviews...theyre the ones that paid for the game

[@TheTexan83]

It wasnt that master chief wasnt the sole playabke charactor in halo 5. It was the facr that 343 swore up and down before release that he was the main charactor and you would play as hin for the majority of the game only for him to in 3 of the 15 missions and one of those was just walkig sround during a 'briefing' session.

[@shroomanox]

343 should not be trusted with Halo. They should open up the IP to indie developers the exact same way Warhammer has done, and let passionate developers make their own iterations.

[@carljung9489]

Halo 1-4 are all a million times better than infinite and you can play with your mates at home

[@MarvinPowell1]

"The Tragedy of Halo Infinite." Damn this was quick, LMAO! Can I suggest the next video: "The Failed Potential of Saints Row." Especially when you consider a Saints Row 1 & 2 remaster on modern consoles was EASY money they just left on the table prior to the doomed reboot because Volition hates its own IP and it's fans. "Haters Gonna Hate," they told us.

[@BainesMkII]

Outside of the claims that the people of reboot-era Volition dislike or even outright loathe the original Saints Row series, there have been other factors discouraging SR 1 & 2 remasters. Volition had lost the source code for SR2 (which was only found again a few years ago), and possibly SR1 as well. The code itself for SR2, and again possibly SR1 as well, is supposedly a mess. Volition didn't handle the remaster of SR3, Deep Silver had that done by another studio. Volition had been bouncing in and out of bad shape for years. Etc.

[@MarvinPowell1]

@@BainesMkII Even if all of that was true, it wouldn't take much effort if it meant easily getting tens of millions of dollars for an old game that would require little work to fix up. It would be worth the effort. But considering they never even patched their broken Saints Row 2 PC port, it just goes to show how little they care about their own IP. They call their own franchise "a GTA clone" more than any of their fans do. The shame they have for Saints Row is obvious, and they only consider SRtT "the good one" even though that's the one half the fanbase hates.

[@117johnpar]

And of course they would love to have you believe the world design came organically and its just a big coincidence that its identical to Ubisofts design for the past decade, specifically Far cry. "We figured, to keep players in one area at a time, we should put towers to unlock the region, Little hidden alcoves with audiologs and basecamps to liberate, and bases to reload and spawn vehicles at."

[@A7XKoRnRocks1]

That first slip space engine trailer in 2018 was HYPED af

[@dun0790]

Granted carrying on for bungie was always going to be hard but it feels like so many of 343 and Microsoft's mistakes were avoidable and now it's like they genuinely dont know what to do or were to take it

[@youngrootv]

You know what’s crazy, Halo 3 launched with campaign, forge, multiplayer, custom games, and theater mode. Way more content than a majority of the games today and somehow 343 can’t even do what Bungie was doing way back then. They ruined one of the biggest gaming franchises ever. They’re a failure of a gaming company in my eyes like what are they even doing in their offices?

[@thaneros]

Its not a 1-to-1 comparison. Halo 3 was built on an already established engine on one console. Infinite was a new engine and was ported to 6 platforms(S/X/PC/One/One S/One X). Not to mention game development then is more complex than now.

[@nekrositoh]

they are making gay sh1t like cat ears and rainbow colored light effect for the armors. when women go into leadership they fck everything that was made by men. look at what katheleen kennedy did to starwars. Incompetence is what has killed halo. letting "diversity" get into gaming only to make certain groups happy is stupid. We need talent and people that actually love what they do. remember that for halo 4/5 they were hiring people that "hated halo". 🤦🏻

[@djlaw56what]

Now 343 sells halo cookbooks...

[@Peer165]

Bad leadership.

[@EPICJ0HN]

When the beta came out it was great but then launch happened and the only thing that was added in multiplayer was a couple maps. Literally 2 maps. The gameplay was flawless and really Brought back the halo 3 vibes. No infection, level system, not enough free armor. Greed is what killed infinite. The need for bonuses in 2021 instead of just waiting until it was ready doomed the game.

[@ThisBirdHasFlown]

23:50 not really. The campaign holds a mixed review rating on average on Steam. That’s pretty bad by Steam user review standards where even average games typically get positive reviews on average.

[@germangamer2976]

I miss the bungie days

[@54032Zepol]

Dang bro i actually liked halo infinite it was interesting open world for a halo game. The story was lackluster true but i also liked that new a.i. though that was nice.

[@johnathan2023]

I'm torn I wish it had coop at launch

[@griffingamer8624]

New AI? What?

[@Hack_The_Planet_]

@@griffingamer8624do you just think Ai means randomly generated images on the internet? What are you confused about?

[@griffingamer8624]

@@Hack_The_Planet_ omfg, no, enemy AI? Cortuna?! I don't know what *new* AI this person is talking about.

[@HotSizzleTV_]

Crazy I just typed in halo 5 and this popped up, was seeing if it’s still active. I haven’t beat halo infinite yet I will but this channel is awesome. I wish they would put halo 5 on the MCC

[@midnightfenrir]

Spartan 4's should have been all we needed to see to understand that they didn't know wtf they were doing. The whole point of Spartan 2/3 is that there is a sacrifice involved, namely turning children into indoctrinated sacrificial super soldiers. None of the moral issues or sacrifice exists. Halseys disdain for them in the opening cutscene of Halo 4 would be appropriately applied to 343 Halo in general.

[@drryanmorris]

Problem was from a story angle, it started off strong, and then went absolutely no where.

[@everythingsalright1121]

Its just...so messy. They try to introduce way too many new things. The banished are cool but if you didnt play halo wars 2 (which was a strategy game, not an FPS so it aims at an entirely different playerbase) have no idea who they are. Then they bring in the harbinger and a species that supposedly survived the original firing of the rings and just...you dont care about whats happening in the story...

[@wonderfred]

343 has yet to make a good game

[@stubblytuna4068]

I was there in livestream during the 2020 showcase and the reactions were funny as hell😂