Cursed GDC Talk Reaction Livestream | Feat.

[@PrismTheKid]

This guy lives the mindset of 'dont overdeliver or youll set unrealistic standards' but I bet if an employee took that mindset for their productivity theyd be called into his office

[@AmaranHonda]

It's actually impressive how much of the rot of not just Destiny 2, but the entire AAA gaming industry was condensed into this video. The fact Truman went up there, said "Yeah I gutted the company down to it's founding quote, bribed influencers with hotfixes to their personal problems in the game, and made sure the team never 'over-delivered' when it came to making content" and got *promoted*. My biggest fear of a games industry crash is a thousand Justin Trumans coming along and snaking their way in whenever it starts to bounce back. You can avoid this man by avoiding Bungie, but what the hell happens if you want avoid this man, you have to avoid the entirety of western gaming?

[@IDSearcher]

You go full Indie, like any informed videogame enjoyer already did years ago.

[@aschtheconjurer]

Embrace modding for classic games that can run on toasters. I've had half a lifetime of both trashy popcorn fun AND affecting interesting experiences out of the Doom modding scene alone. Also, retvrn to emulation. Sadly though, if you're on console and don't wanna leave it, I have zero practical advice there.

[@blahblahgdp]

The amount of normies that joined gaming really fucked it up. They quickly overpowered our buying power

[@Frank451Martin]

Simple, do not go into bs that's called triple a. Go search for indie games or double a games that set themselves with higher standards and kept their word, play old games either vanilla or modded the hell out like fallout new vegas. To me, the big game companies are just repeating the same problem that the 80s were facing which was flooding the gaming market with mediocre games and zero quality control. This time, the modern shovelware looks super fancy with no substitute and sometimes it's a slot machine that's trying to steal your wallet.

[@Ralphopotamus]

We create worlds that inspire friendships. This game broke my clan in half. Friends stopped talking and began hating each other. Now that ive been out of this game for over a year, this line sounds like a weird culty saying.

[@Hammers_Peace]

You need better friends amigo

[@Wormopera]

I'm with this dude above, you really need better friends

[@Ralphopotamus]

Its less that they were my friends, and more that good friends of many years split apart. But true, i could always use better friends. Thats why im not playing D2 anymore

[@Wormopera]

@@Ralphopotamus best decision of your life

[@matthewmilam6578]

How did D2 break your clan?

[@TheZombieCurryKid]

I can't remember the details, but years ago I've seen other GDC talks by mobile game developers just going into how they manipulate customers. GDC has this stuff openly very commonly from my experience watching the talks.

[@cdubsb3831]

You can tell a GDC talk condemns the industry when they disable comments.

[@lunarluxe9832]

@@cdubsb3831i cant even find the video anymore

[@tsunderemerc2963]

This is actually horrifying when the AAA industry is so bad they can have this "mask off" moment and nobody bats an eye. "Actually its good to put quantity over quality and put in the least effort possible for the most returns". He's a businessman, not an artist, and sadly the industry is stifled by businessmen.

[@PrismTheKid]

I like how this guy references Pixar, yet he is basically just the short boss from The Incredibles 'A company is like...' '...An enormous train station.' '...Yes, exactly!'

[@WoodenBench]

this man talks how people think Outer Worlds characters talk

[@Warhammer_lover]

This man thinks how outer worlds characters talk

[@MsVeeVee7]

When i was working in a supermarket and we were implementing click and collect shopping, one of the business leaders proudly stated "we fail fast" because the focus was on quickly iterating the product rather than developing a great product ahead of time.

[@deifiedtitan]

Fail fast is actually a great strategy for anything creative. The problem is entirely in where you fail. You want to be failing as often as possible in your concept and R&D stages specifically to prevent the idea you had from being taken to production without ever being tested. Doing it on a live service rather than trial basis is nutty, but for something like a supermarket I can see why they would. What’s the customer going to do? Go elsewhere? Most often they go where’s convenient. It’ll be a short period of high fail rate that gets ironed out relatively quickly, by which point everyone’s forgotten/apathetic. Cheapest solution, can charge a lot for it to make the most margin since it’s getting delivered fast. Shouldn’t really happen in live service games where the service is the thing itself that you’re paying for, not the supermarket goods that the service gets you to.

[@chan_martin]

Oh yeah Destiny 2 inspires friendship by putting me in a world with people that I can’t even interact with beyond world events and emoting at each other. Really inspiring Bungie…

[@shadowfragment]

Honestly, I think I enjoy you guys analysing game dev talks/interviews and advertisement more than I enjoy your video game analysis. I love the videos, but these streams are so compelling.

[@lunarluxe9832]

agreed

[@Quibber123]

I'm not fully through the stream, but I just reached the part where they're talking about what the hell is going on and I hope someone chimes in to tell them about "Sword Logic", "Bomb Logic", and, my personal favorite, the fact a sci-fi duel to decide the fate of the universe was settled with, and I quote, "blade, with rifle, and with fifth-generation air superiority fighters."

[@Zecuto]

You'd might get amazed how discussions about this presentation on reddit, for example "you dont want to overdeliver" boils down to "it's a good thing they dont crunch".

[@soggy2496]

It’s everything I hate about the modern industry, condensed into a single presentation.

[@AmaranHonda]

Dunno if Pat or PS will see this, but there's been an update around Destiny 2. They just released a State of the Game in which they have confirmed that they will not do anything with an entire game mode (Gambit), other than port in an old map. They also confirmed the normal ritual armor (armor drops you get playing Strikes, Crucible and Gambit) will no longer be per expansion now but only sporadically, but still making Eververse ornament armor you can buy for silver. Rumor was spreading like wildfire that D2 was abandoned for Marathon, and this State of the Game just threw a fucking full tank of gas right on it.

[@lunarluxe9832]

love and hate to see it

[@TheStowAway594]

The "GDC talk" is absolutely disgusting, that's why I don't buy very many games anymore and the ones I do buy are from indie's that still actually care what they're making, they aren't trying to become millionaires or sell you an nft or some other bullspit, they just want to make a fun game. Anyway I'm glad you guys are bringing more attention to this, maybe it will open some people's eyes. I remember I saw a conference on in-game purchases, and they went into micro transactions, progression, game world economy, and the psychological tactics they do to get users to spend money. That lecture made me sick, they are literally using psychological manipulation on children & adults! That's seriously messed up, how anyone with any sense of integrity can work at a place like that I don't know.

[@andrewlewis2123]

2:41:10 the man has clearly not played FTL past Sector 1… O2 is basically optional unless your medbay is broken, and should regularly be depowered to efficiently allocate reactor power to weapons, engines, etc in combat. Shields and engines are what keep you from taking more system and hull damage, which keeps you in the game and lets you fight back. But of course this is coming from the guy who sees Destiny 2 as a success story, not a laughingstock, so I don’t know what I really expected.

[@deifiedtitan]

Just remembered why I fell off from Destiny; they released Destiny 2 only 3 years after D1. They had said in the lead-up to D1 that it was a game they were going to support for 10 years. They said that knowing they already had contractual obligations to release a sequel. Imagine leaving behind one of the most beloved franchises in history so you could get in bed with Activision to sell your soul piecemeal while making a pretentious live-service Borderlands clone. Catastrophic fall from grace. Edit: I fucking LOVE any admission of turning off microtransactions. If there was any belief that MTX actually improved the game for anyone playing, they’d fight to keep them in. “We removed them to improve community trust.” The tacit admission that no one likes them, they make every game worse for being in them, and exist solely to make money. It is to no one’s benefit but the moneymaker that they exist, and the quality of service games like MMOs has not improved with their introduction. There’s strong evidence to the contrary.

[@tehguyiskool]

Another interesting aspect of research would be this GDC talk (and other Bungie publications) and how they relate to the Activision/Bungie split. The Activision/Bungie partnership was where the “10 year plan” gimmick came from (meaning the FRANCHISE would be 10 years à la D1, D2, D3, etc). That split also earned Bungie a lot of goodwill in the Destiny community because they levied the problems Bungie’s poor business practices against the “big bad” Activision. Maybe even studying Bungie’s use of a marginal cost purchasing model, since many active players’ barrier to entry for new content is MUCH lower (new season only $10 every three months, rather than the current $200-$300 price tag for new players.)

[@admiraltonydawning3847]

Another interesting aspect that Activision wasn't the first "big bad" above Bungie.

[@TR-707]

I hate this. A LOT of business is done this way even in indie, creator, underground space. I cant stand dealing with people that think this way and give me advice about how i should build my career.

[@512TheWolf512]

elder scrolls is actually very popular in the post-soviet space, so that captions stat is not unsurprising

[@blahblahgdp]

From what ive learned, i think the games industry pushed really damn hard to broaden their audience because they know that enough of that wide audience doesnt have the IQ to understand how theyre getting duped. Or are at least willing to get duped

[@FeelingShred]

I'm slowly going through Daggerfall's main quest on DOS (surprising amount of hours put into it and there's still halfway to go...) I'm still with my jaw dropped on the floor to know that at the end of the game (no spoilers...) I will have the CHOICE of giving the ultimate power to SEVEN different factions, or even get rid of it all... 1996, have that in mind... holy f*****

[@JCdental]

They didn't know it was imposible So they did it anyway

[@FeelingShred]

ONE of seven* typo

[@cyberninjazero5659]

Why did you go with the buggy Dos version when the Unity ports been out for a while?

[@FeelingShred]

For my 1st playthrough of the game, I want to experience the original AI and original game code/features/glitches untouched. Unity is a great product, but it is a recreation, it is not a faithful port. Combat differences are glaring, most notably enemies jumping out of doors to attack you, enemies fighting each other too much frequently, etc... These things never happened in original games, that's why I wanted to see for myself and made footage of it for anyone to see.

[@FeelingShred]

Unity fanatics get way too pushy about their subjective opinion. Similar thing happens in doom community with gzdoom... it's nothing new...

[@ReachTea]

It's so unfathomable why people play Destiny, it's just crack cocaine the video game, getting away with daylight robbery you don't do anything it's just articulately designed grind, you are being processed you just don't notice it Once money is involved in a progression system, you should know you should are being manipulated, it's just a fact of life I've made it a note to acknowledge if a game has a fake currency, the game is actively trying to scam you, like the video game is out loud saying "we are scamming you, buy our Microsoft points"

[@lunarluxe9832]

I love the world and how the game feels I wish it wasn't so awful to play

[@mossy3565]

I've been recommended, a lot, to play Destiny 2 partly because I've been promised by Destiny 2 crackheads that a lot of the worldbuilding and characters is classically Bungie, as in, fucking awesome But that's in spite of the game. At that point, play older Bungie games.

[@levet1797]

Playing D1 off and on through the years and enjoying it just enough to buy all of the expansions I was utterly confused when booting up D2 about a year ago. D1 wasn't anything spectacular but it had a story and was fun to play with friends. Certain raids (vault of glass) even gave me a memorable time with strangers, something that I hadn't had since the good old days of SWG. D2 gave me a reused intro that had me wondering if they didn't just include D1 content and followed it up with the most basic mission set imaginable. If there was a story I never found it in the mess of seasons to choose from. I played around with it for a couple weeks off and on since it was free but haven't been back in months.

[@doodiezgrandpa6520]

d2 is terrible to start alone, i was confused a lot, about what is this game and where is the story ect. than i dropped it for 3 weeks, new season arrived and everything was reverted or deleted without explanation, my gear level was set to max, and i lost the point of playing, because from now i just need to farm paid content to rise the "power lvl", all classes were unlocked and the progression had no point. all i saw on yt to twitch - people farming paid high end content for even a chance to play pvp, which is garbidge and based on very rare weapons percs. than i discovered vaulting, that my gear can be just "deleted" and all you need is just to buy new expansion every time. playing any cool raids are only possible with other people in coms, random lobbies are imposible, and clans are not exsesseble to me because i cannot speak with voice, because of my muted condition, wich was NEVER a problem in any game before. i deleted it it and never touched Again.

[@levet1797]

Weird as it is I actually tend to enjoy the early game grind. Zero to hero so to speak, especially in MMO type games which I would classify Destiny as. Starting up the game only to have the max level handed to me despite having the initial low level enemies felt cheap, especially when I had to grind that low level garbage just to unlock my old hunter class. D1 had its merits with friends and at least some form of story I could enjoy once or twice, D2 doesn't even have that.

[@levet1797]

D2 didn't even have randos playing with the light ball. It was weird.

[@immenseangloid4168]

03:23:00 When he mentioned parallel, I was worried he'd start using an electric circuits metaphor. Like, when we built lots of content at once, at high mean drift velocity, the voltage, our revenue was actually the same across each branch, wheras, if we built the content in series, the voltage revenue would've been split between our products!

[@disconabisco2234]

The Khajit from yesterday reacting to this lol

[@Renegen1]

you didn't mention it, but often when some executive starts talking about "re-defining" how the company is run, it's because he wants a power grab. What follows is then corruption and excessive pay.

[@FeelingShred]

oh, just remembered what was the point where Todd contradicted himself... first he says things like "there could be survival elements in the game and more challenging more competent A.I. but these things would make the game less fun in the end".... 20 minutes later he uses the guy who created the SURVIVAL Skyrim mod (one of the most demanded lately) as a benchmark parameter for success and embracing community 🤣

[@FeelingShred]

but even then, I very much prefer his worst crime to humanity being a tiny bit contradictory at times (something we all are on occasion) over not being an abusive employer/manager that makes people's lives in the company miserable in a daily basis... white lies allowed 👍there are much much worse fiends out there for us to go after and munch their asses in public eyes 🤣🤣😡😡

[@FeelingShred]

it's so funny too... sometimes you can see this in Todd's eyes while he talks, the gears are turning in his brain and he's thinking "Can I get away with this? What else can I get away with?" If somehow he manages to control the temptation of becoming an untouchable evil villain, his reputation and public image might be saved for posterity... He's definitely playing with limits

[@FeelingShred]

we are so lacking out of heroes and models in life lately... it would be so sad 😥please don't

[@lunarluxe9832]

i just want to ask him, why!?!?

[@swtorguy52]

Lets not forget how hard a game bombed recently. A game that had velocity apllenty. New World lost what ? 90 90+ % of players in a few months after release. I bet there was a dude like him at the helm there.

[@nickwilson7241]

The worst part about the "gatekeeping for old bald white guys" line is that there's a really really easy solution to that problem while also "making games we want to play" Just hire some people who aren't old white guys. But apparently changing the entire company culture around a new vapid slogan was easier than just.... Having a more diverse workplace

[@ikariameriks]

You don't need any forced diversity. If you have such a simple motto as "making games that we want to play" it will include anyone who loves their games.

[@nickwilson7241]

@@ikariameriks it's not "forced" diversity to say, "hey, we want to make good games people want to play, but we should also want to expand our market to include people who don't fall into this one very narrow demographic" It's literally just a bad business decision to not include new perspectives in your design process, because that's how you stagnate and stop growing as a company.

[@yarghhargh9345]

So now you have a diverse board of directors, and you still make bad games. Great thinking.

[@johnwiks2597]

Love bugmen corporates talking about what works in gaming. It's wholly due to this Tony Robbins wannabe and others like him that i've largely quit gaming...except to replay oldies.

[@guardianoftheledge4966]

I found the largest spider I have ever seen in my basement while watching this.

[@512TheWolf512]

This is a GREAT reminder to internet morons who ALWAYS only blame the management, and keep acting like developers themselves are spotless saints who can do no wrong

[@marcelroodtdev]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if I saw "First Trust, then Retention, then Revenue" in the lobbies of a large number of game companies. I think they were onto something. :^)

[@merrja]

The thing I found so incredible about that GDC talk is that at no point does Justin point to something Halo struggled with, and Destiny succeeds at. He's trying to sell people on a new way to make games, yet its everything he talks about is public failure and enforced mediocrity.

[@mossy3565]

That's because he didn't work on Halo, he started working with Destiny. Though he will still go through the effort of using the word 'We' whenever it comes up. It's a trick, to paint himself as a master artist by standing on the back of Masters, who he's gone through the effort of shiving in the back and firing

[@Zecuto]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think there are AI bots that use captions to create a TL;DR of the entire video as well as scrappers for the sake of AI training, if I am not mistaken, both exploded in activity during 2022, this might be the reason for increased captions use.

[@zombiekingex7911]

Every time I look back at this game the new player experience has somehow gotten worse and MORE convoluted.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

Since you mentioned it at the end. How does Planet Crafter compare to Satisfactory?

[@s--b]

This looks like a fake video game from a movie

[@franciscojose6512]

This is actually the most schizoprenic and like, sad thing I've ever witnessed what was he thinking

[@Rays326]

When I’m rigging safety critical devices in a power plant, doing so perfectly is not my goal. Now doing it FAST? There’s a goal with some chest hair!

[@hunt2805]

Is nobody going to point out how this guy just stole the DENNIS system

[@Warhammer_lover]

The what?

[@TheStowAway594]

Lol pretty much.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

​@@Warhammer_lover Always Sunny in Philadelphia reference: D - Demonstrate value E - Engage physically N - Nurture dependence N - Neglect emotionally I - Inspire hope S - Separate entirely. Dennis is a pretty evil guy and this was his guide on how to get women. And this is basically a textbook list of ways to identify if someone is an abuser.

[@Warhammer_lover]

@@haruhirogrimgar6047 thanks for the explanation!

[@shauneborn]

3:30:11 I know I'm way late... but that isn't even what Miyamoto even said. And it has to be an intentional misquote. He ended it with "a rushed game is forever bad:... the opposite of Truman's obsession with pushing out content as fast as he can.

[@possiblyzslot838]

They took down the comments section of the official GDC upload 💀

[@aspiringgirl4422]

This makes me sad. Remember when Bungie was making video games, and not ATMs.

[@literatemax]

I missed it again! Dammit! 😅

[@liquidrufus]

He's just redefining crunch.

[@cole8834]

Retail WoW has the same problem as Destiny it looks like; the new player experience is so easy a parrot could do it; but the "actual" endgame content (or Destiny midgame, basically) is very complex there's no smooth escalation of difficulty. Not only that, but retail WoW implemented the same random group finder which led to frustrating dungeons in Cata, where it was hard, but you couldnt coordinate good enough with the randos.

[@Warhammer_lover]

I truly pity people who sunk hours of their life into that product, who invested themselves into its story. Those are broken people, who need help.

[@wesleyeberly228]

Probably would’ve helped to have somebody that knows destiny to guide and speak with

[@cole8834]

Another observation: The "blink" jump (idk what it's called) looks extremely clunky. "blinking" or dashing is something I thought FPS games had figured out? Why the half second charge up? Is it really for balance? there's other ways to balance it (higher CD etc.) Just looks annoying

[@PrismTheKid]

If your slogan 'We make games we want to play' is somehow seen as non-inclusive then maybe that's a problem with the diversity of the staff at Bungie? That's just the lamest excuse for changing that slogan and it doesn't even slightly hold up to scrutiny

[@ikariameriks]

If someone sees that as a problem of non-inclusivity it's a he/she problem.

[@yarghhargh9345]

You guys should just rename the podcast to "Blackpilled again"

[@redacted9606]

Sooooooo When are you two going to announce the wedding?

[@lunarluxe9832]

when pat moves from the couch to ps's bed

[@Warhammer_lover]

Funny thing is, this isn't a free-to-play version, it seems it's a reharsh of a ps3 destiny 1 DEMO, where you could only play cosmodrome and the Tower.

[@joshkarn1951]

I played destiny when it first came out as a shooter with my bro and his friend ms who loved and still play it. I consider it a massive disappointment/failure as a sci fi series, it came out when all the other big ones imploded and just failed its chance. i heard talk of a extended universe of various media projects, but am highly doubtful given how lousy their comics and in game story were

[@yarghhargh9345]

Its hard to tell if he's a charlatan or legitimately deluded

[@lunarluxe9832]

10:46 holy shit pat

[@FeelingShred]

Baldur's Gate 3 stream guys? 🙏

[@cyberninjazero5659]

Patrician Just said he probably isn't going to play it

[@lunarluxe9832]

@@cyberninjazero5659he has been playing it right? at least when i glanced at his twitter

[@FeelingShred]

from what I'm seeing BG3 looks like a shit game, but at least I know these two would make it fun even if as a mockery stream

[@deaj8450]

​@@FeelingShredJust curious what you thought of the game if you've happened to play it since this comment. I just finished it recently, was fairly disappointed but it's because my expectations were too high from what people were saying, which I should know better by now but a good crpg is too tempting. I thought it was a 7 or 8 out of 10, but the sad thing is that with the modern state of gaming it absolutely was AAA game of the year. Shouldn't be, but almost nothing good comes out anymore from major devs. Good game, not a great one. Larian's writing staff annoys me.

[@Uhhhhh478]

4:15:04

[@larswyness1901]

Even with all the terrible shit in Destiny 2, I'd much much rather give Bungie my money than Bethesda. Fallout 76 has always been a dreadful embarrassment of a game. I am a little biased, I don't like Bethesda games, I just find them to be a jack of all trades, master of none. But as far as jank goes, comparing FO76 to D2 in terms of jank is pot calling the kettle black. The core shooting mechanics, the art, the music and the moments of brilliance like the raids are what's kept me in the game. All those things that Halo era bungie cared about and put effort in the moment-to-moment gameplay (30 seconds of fun quote here). Current Bungie, that's clearly absent and the fun gameplay mechanics that remain as grandfathered into the game are still good, in the same way Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST and Reach are still fun to play to this day, but if they were to start from scratch, I can't see them making a solid, fun game any more. It's a mobile game type mindset. It's annoying that the answer is clearly "we're going too fast to make the game good, let's slow down and release when we're ready" but instead they've just changed their definition of success and said that velocity is important. But hey, Sony thinks that Bungie's doing a good job with live service, since they bought them for however much money. btw Sparrow divebombing has been in the game since Destiny 1 launch. the Miyamoto quote imo, still holds true. Releasing a bad game marks that game as shit for all time. Cyberpunk was so hyped and was such a trainwreck of a launch that it noticeably affected its sales. Shiggy is a genius and this logic of "oh we can just update it later, so it doesn't matter any more" is a recipe for failure.

[@mossy3565]

I'd rather be stung by a Dessert Scorpion than a Weaver Spider, doesn't mean I would enjoy either encounter At some point, you've just gotta re-assess your hobbies.

[@novonicfrotabarboza6810]

1:28:18

[@BucketBoatable]

What is this Chinese pachinko machine ripoff of Warframe?

[@Warhammer_lover]

Are the comments being deleted? Wtf? Where's my comment?

[@doodiezgrandpa6520]

its up top lmao

[@Warhammer_lover]

@@doodiezgrandpa6520 no no, there was one comment I wrote, and it's gone, is there a word filter?

[@dikasmusha6194]

@@Warhammer_lover youtube has a world filter.

[@Warhammer_lover]

@@dikasmusha6194 weird, it was just a 3 sentence better call Saul reference. Nothing PC incorrect

[@512TheWolf512]

You can never know what woketube will deem too much and censor. Nothing unusual here

[@LostIndividuality]

I don't get why you guys are trashing destiny 2 I mean there's still content right? You guys couldn't have run out *that* fast, right? Also Pat should've said "crackvenue" at 2:39 to be optimal

[@SYLRMHA]

First

I thought one had to be at least 13 to be on KZbin..

[@SYLRMHA]

@ jealous chubby cheeks?

[@faithkerns1626]

This gdc talk is literally the reason I quit gameing.

[@Rob-vu6iy]

5:08:45

[@Rob-vu6iy]

5:11:25

[@Rob-vu6iy]

4:55:37

[@Rob-vu6iy]

3:55:42

[@jackweaver1846]

3:42:30