OWCS Dallas Grand Finals -- Team Falcons vs Crazy Raccoon

[@applejuice6921]

I'm bored so I'm going to say why I think Lip is the goat. This dude has the craziest hero pool we've ever seen. This dude has an s tier sombra, cass, widow, ashe, hanzo, reaper, tracer, sojourn. Lip has won titles on all those heroes except hanzo. Lip reverse swept profit in his finals debut coming off the bench, smashed the spark, came back 3-1 against the fuel when everyone thought they perfected the meta, smashed MVP Leave in CC, annihilated everyone in s4 playoffs, once again beat profit alongside smurf and stalker in s5 joats, meta defining sombra in s6, and now has beaten a team that has proper, hanbin, and smurf along with his former teammates chiyo, stalker, and fielder with a team who had 3 of proper's former teammates. Lip is something like 8-2 in s tier grand finals. To me, its hard to deny Lip as the goat when hes in year 5 of being a pro and still dominating the best of the best while winning title after title. Plus this dude shows up in finals. The amount of clutch moments he's had in big moments is crazy. He's what proper should be.

[@tachyon7368]

Though I do think Lip is deffinetly in the conversation, I think we all got a bit of recency bias. Saying Lip reversed swept profit by coming off the bench is wrong he played on lijang the first map of the series, he was an important piece into why they reverse swept but it was more so on Fearless then anyone else on shanghai. 21 he deserves full credit, for june joust he was amazing, but saying he smashed Leave when Lip had the better team around him by far (same applies to profit in 2020 may mele) is just dishonest, and ignores most of the context into why Lip won, when Leave and Profit where on teams that where able to compete with Lips either thorugh better player quality or a meta that favoured profits or Leaves team allowing the other players in their role to compete with their counterpart they where able to beat Lip, Profit in 2020 Playofs, 2022 season and Leave in the 2023 Playoffs. Another thing that bothers me is lip winnning the summer showdown, profit was on main support and was the only genji in the region that could outplay and be better then whoru's at that time evident by kickoff clash, no disrespect to stalker, Lip did make the most of it though and played extremely well but some context is needed i think. s6 defined the meta for the majority of the season on sombra but unfortunately did not play to that same standard once sombra was not meta and got kicked out the playoffs early. Now ofc he just won and was an influential piece into winning adding to his legacy. But to say its hard to deny hes the GOAT when 4/5 years of his career his been on superteams that where/are competing for stage wins and GF wins does for me knock him down a peg, profit every year he has had a competive team/ super team also won a stage and/or the GF same for viol2t when he was on fs. All in all he is most definetely in the conversation with profit and viol2t now and probably has the best chance out of all 3 to take that title for himself if CR win EWC and GF.

[@applejuice6921]

​@@tachyon7368 this isn't recency bias for me. I've believed lip is the goat for a while. you can make all the excuses or justify why he isn't the best but simply put, he is able to bring the teams he plays with over the top. Fearless and lip changed that entire series. Don't try diminish lips impact on that series. He makes the team super teams. Stalker and donghak weren't exactly gods when they signed for Atlanta. heesang, junbin, and max were all outcasts from the shock last year. Fleta, iza and diem weren't world beaters. He brought each of them to titles. he and whoru willed that team to a title because they were the two best at soj/genji. fearless has played with more stacked teams and won less while losing more. do we forget s4 ss and playoffs? do we forget s6MM? proper is picking up a laundry list of monsters he's played with and still hasnt won. at a certain point you gotta give credit where credit is due, lip is simply great.

[@tachyon7368]

@@applejuice6921 Yh that’s why he is in the discussion, it’s just not as clear cut as you make it out to be, he’s had the luxury to be on superteams 4/5 years and he has won but also failed to get it done to and that should be held against him the same way you hold it against proper

[@applejuice6921]

​@@tachyon7368 what argument are you going to make that lip isnt the goat? cause hes been on super teams? fearless entire owl career post s3 are super teams, violets been on monster teams and hasnt won anything since moth left him, profit has played with some crazy rosters, proper has played with players who MANY consider the GOATs of their position. Why is lip held to a different standard than them? also Lips been a part of some of the most dominant teams. ball comp dragons, sombra dive reign and joats dragons. but guess who was the centerpiece for all those comps? lip Even this version of crazy raccoon is insane. They've only lost like 6 maps between the korea/dallas playoffs with 5 of them being to the stupid stacked falcons. proper just cant get it done, lip can. lip has won 8 titles while proper has 0 LOL. Lips finished first in the regular season 3x in owl, came out at as the top seed in OWCS' asia region and won the major.

[@CrazeeAdam]

@@applejuice6921 The only thing that I would say, not for Proper, but Violet is that he's been part of 4/6 grand finals (and one of those years obviously he wasn't able to be in the league), and he won 2 of those. He's also won or finished high in a lot of those tournaments as well. He's also been one of the only players to completely swap his role into Main Support successfully and still pound on his original role. Violet is one of the only players I would hold above Lip really in the pure "GOAT" conversation. I think those who argue Profit live in the past a little bit? Like yes he was good for a long time, but I think he's been surpassed in skill wise in the Flex DPS department, a couple times (Pelican, Proper etc.). And Proper shouldn't even be near that conversation either. But yeah that's just my 2 cents.

[@pifeg]

Return of the King (to VOD reviewing, I like your streams too)

[@EndlessFusionist]

"Even the Devil looks away in digust" 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@deusex9731]

oi i havent been following ow pro play since owl ended, so i thought this new format also means new players, but seeing all these (at this point even proper) old names makes me happy.

[@TemariTheKid]

Carpe retired and gave proper his curse

[@Scorpioking563]

Love the vod review, i found ya back when i just got into comp ow and watched all your vod reviews. Cool to be able to see one that i was actually watching live

[@CrazeeAdam]

On the GOAT conversation, I think until someone makes just amazing grounds, like more than even Lip has, Violet is still the overall GOAT. I think Lip is up there for the DPS department for sure.. but overall, Violet. Dude never finished lower than top 4 in OWL all his years. His teams were part of 4/6 grand finals in OWL (one of those years he wasn't able to be in OWL anyways). He's really one of the only players to successfully go from Flex Support to Main Support duties, all the while still being able to pound on their original position. I think it's very hard not to still say Violet is the "GOAT", but Lip is for sure one of the best DPS players ever

[@boomingbob1579]

Junbin on Hog was the greatest thing ever and his refusal to play Mauga except a few times

[@BBmetalhead04]

31:27 For Mauga, what if they rework the left mini-gun into a short range flamethrower that has a resource meter (like D.va matrix or Moira healing) and keep the left mini-gun the same? Keep the burning-crit combo of using both weapons simultaneously, but now you have to manage a resource effectively to get the most out of the combo.

[@ImAlex290]

what happened to OWL Classics series?

[@just_for_comments]

I’m still a profit goat defender…… who says there can’t be more than 1 tho? Lip definitely a goat too.

[@CrazeeAdam]

I think you can argue like Profit is the Goat of early OWL, Violet of OWL, and Lip late OWL/post OWL. It's hard not to mention Violet at least too.

[@matthewmccloskey515]

The fucking G in GOAT says there can only be one. Not Great, Greatest. Only one Greatest. You can say somethikg like Lucio GOAT vs Tracer GOAT, that's fine. But THE GOAT, only one.

[@matthewmccloskey515]

​@@CrazeeAdamyou are now violating the A IN GOAT. It's not Greatest of His Time. It's Greatest Of All Time.

[@tarsalp]

I think this game was incredibly even and it could’ve gone falcons way at any moment, but in the end it was the separate 1v1s that won crazy raccoon the match. shu vs fielder that shu won without a doubt, stalker yet again got diffed by heesang, when they play against each other it just seems like heesang is on another level, and lastly Smurf vs Junbin, where junbin was just more clutch and dominant, while Smurf had very costly chokes that can be said lost falcons maps(in both last rounds of controls maps in the most crucial moments Smurf whiffed his cages and got zero people caught in it giving zero value). despite that falcons have shown significant improvement compared to the Asia tournament(or maybe it’s just proper being able to play tracer, genji and carry).

[@dysxxvii]

Thought it was weird, felt like so many picks happened in the background... then I realized it was probably the production's fault cuz i was looking at the background

[@colinjames1147]

I still don’t understand why falcons were scared of mirroring the dive on Gibraltar, it seemed like 1st round was pretty even for crazy raccoon attack?

[@d3x84]

On the upside: Having the video bitrate lower than old PAL Standards from the 1950s has the upside of fast downloads for Videogames without limiting them :D On the downside: I can count macroblocks on 1 hand :D

[@gerardpigeon6989]

Custa, if you see this comment please answer, I don’t really understand watching your review why Falcons ended up loosing, except the gibraltar throw, I don’t understand what they have done wrong and what CR as done better

[@CrazeeAdam]

I think one thing is, although the Falcons backline is great, they are much less clutch at making individual plays than Shu/Chorong. Another thing is, Lip is arguably better than both Proper and Stalker. It's just that. Another thing is its arguable that even though they won Kings Row, taking out Smurf was a mistake, kind of losing his momentum in Match. Just very small things

[@CrazeeAdam]

I also think they weren't ready for Junbin Ball

[@nurikkulanbaev3628]

Falcons could not adapt to crazy comps CR was throwing at them. Smurf was walking around like hook doesnt exist. Like Ball cant come up in surprice attack and etc. In mirror matches Falcons were stronger. But CR just was more creative

[@ori1393]

CR were more willing to be flexible in their playstyle and composition choices, much of which Falcons didn't seem fully prepared for. Right from the get-go Falcons are playing compositions to deliberately dodge matching LIP's hitscan, and are occasionally overextending to kill him in fights. Junbin was less consistent on mauga than smurf, with worse engages, especially in the maps Falcons won, but when he switched to ball, Falcons did not know how to play around it. Falcons were caught out with a lack of experience on NQS and Ilios as a result, and their fight engages were less clean and worse planned than CR as a result. With the ball maps being a wash, the key point in the match was oasis at the start, where CR used hog to break their poor form from the winners finals performance on that map, and then outclutched/outcomped Falcons. The pharah cassidy was probably better on that map, and was only so close because CR players got caught out a couple times by good Falcons play. Additionally, towards the end of the map, Falcons were playing with less certainty and confidence due to the CR composition swaps, whereas players like junbin and LIP seemed to have full confidence in every engagement and be playing their best. Hope this comment was helpful...

[@gerardpigeon6989]

Thank you, really, so if I understand the way Falcons can get better and the match will be closer and better to watch is that they learn how to adapt to CR comps, and most of all the ball, the hitscan and maybe the pharah?

[@SmileyMikee]

I would say there is space for Leave to be put into the GOAT conversation. Lip has been incredible dominant on incredibly dominant teams. He has practically always been on incredibly well organised, well funded, well coached teams. Leave has done so well with practically every disadvantage. If he had good teammates the coaching/behind the scenes team was awful. He was on a team that was so badly organised it literally never officially left OWL, it just stopped turning up. Even when he got onto a great team they were hit with disadvantage after disadvantage and he placed 3rd at OWL and 2nd OWWC.

[@galaxyrend]

I love leave but he isn’t even in the top 5 lol He started later than every current candidate and hasn’t won even close to as much and doesn’t even have higher peak performances than someone like Lip.

[@galaxyrend]

How many times did fielder die first on NQS lol

[@PriceIsRight126]

Last time I was this early for OW content I sat through a 3 hour delay

[@ori1393]

This format definitely benefits the LIP goat conversation because Viol2t is on the 3rd best team in the world and not at this LAN... I definitely think LIP could be considered the goat quite widely by the end of the year though, not just because of his success but because of what I call the "he can't do more" argument. Meaning that LIP was rolestar in his debut season and then the best in the hitscan sub-role every year since (even if he was edged out in a particular tournament, across the year he was always far and away the best from 21-24). Viol2t's change to main support has definitely hurt him in this comparison because he still isn't competing for best in the world in that role, even though his overall support value is immense (the ability to switch to double flex support simply hasn't been important enough the past few years to benefit his case in this regard).

[@Revanxbone]

I hope the rumors of proper quitting are just rumors. He is always great to see imo

[@Galnar]

love me some custa vod reviews

[@mavisvermillion5126]

Lip got 9/12th in 2022 and 7/8th in 2023. Viol2t went to 66% of grandfinals in OWL, I don't think it's close. You can say Viol2t didn't make Dreamhack, but we all know they were one map away and they woulda made Grand Finals of Dallas because NA and EU are just bad.

[@hyp3raimz]

2022 grand finals recap?

[@nikhilchhagan7371]

Please post more vod reviews here!!!

[@DCsProductions]

Anyone else think the Korean teams had an advantage since their whole OWCS is on LAN?

[@tqkf8878]

This match wasn’t heesang > proper or shu > fielder it was definitely junbin > falcons

[@3Dtay]

SHILL ALERT!!!!!!!

[@its_lucky2526]

shill

[@agua2883]

47:00

[@Tantaku]

no hanbin no win

[@floralpatterns21]

This tournament was so insanely uncompetitive that I lost interest on day one

[@CrazeeAdam]

There were some really good matches still imo. Even if the main two teams were obvious. M80 vs Space station was really good and then Falcons vs Raccoons of course

[@frostedfire8745]

your hanzo changes suck >:(

[@enjoidavid]

EU>NA

[@Chuha97]

its just KR vs KR here

[@frostedfire8745]

your hanzo changes suck >:(