Cut Polish Etch, Testing Welds, Roll the Tank

my online store is weldmongerstore.com/ that is how I pay for these videos.
Can mixed welding gas become unmixed? or unevenly mixed?
Science might say no but after a period of non use, rolling the tank sure seems to help the arc smooth out.
I tested a mig weld about a month ago and saw a straight line indication. Was it a lamination? I wanted to do some further tests so that we could all learn something. I got an email from a retired metallurgist as well as a very good comment on youtube explaining the indication I saw.
here is what the email said ...
" Hi Jody,
What you saw in today's video is not lamination. The weld would have been nowhere as good as it was - even noting the defects in it you described. A lamination would have blown apart. What you saw is rather light centerline segregation left over for the steel casting process. It is not a desirable condition but is acceptable for many applications, especially in lower carbon steel and where the steel is used flat or with easy bending involved. Centerline seg becomes a problem in higher carbon steel (the carbon and other alloying elements segregate toward the center line causing welding problems such as the formation of martensite in the heat affected zone.) I do not mean this to be a criticism but am writing you just for educational purposes.
I really enjoy your videos and I have found them to be very educational even though I am one of those people for whom you explicitly did not start you videos for (university educated metallurgical types). I worked as a metallurgist for a large steel company for 34 years and have decades of experience with the type of steel you generally use in your videos. "

[@lisajohnson8566]

Your videos are amazing!! While I have been welding for about 45 years I was not a welder by trade. I could stick things together and get the job done. But you gentlemen that do this kind of certified and perfect welding always amaze me. It's just magic to watch you move a puddle. Also the idea that you share in your video's leave me shaking my heads as I never knew or heard about the tips your give here. All I can do is say thank you!! Makes me want to go out to the shop and fire up that TIG that sits around a lot and practice more with it.

[@brxtmp106]

It may have seemed random stuff to you but to us it is, as always, pure gold!

[@renegadezed]

i agree, i love these 5-10 minutes random videos. i wish there was more.

[@HouseofChop]

The ol' rolling the cylinder trick works! I did it after Jody had mentioned it in The Welding Tips & Tricks podcast and it fixed the issues I was having. Another excellent video Jody! Thank you! 🔥👍🏼🔥

[@paulblasingame]

Love the testing!! I was a welder for a few months and now I work at a testing lab and I’m really enjoying it.

[@seankelly4845]

Apprentice metal fab here. your videos are really helping me focus my skills and techniques in mig/tig big thanks. Your videos are educational and entertaining great work!

[@stevewarner8880]

Great video Jody. Good to have you back

[@SteadArcFab_Ministries]

Fun video Jody! Short and sweet down and dirty but super informative! I have just been gaining such a wealth of knowledge and now coupled with under the hood time, it's all coming together!!! Thanks so much.

[@bruced1429]

Jody, every time I watch your videos I learn a lot. contrary to common thinking you can teach an old dog new tricks. thanks to you .

[@pawefirek2021]

I recently started TIG welding and plasma cutting. After each weld I do a metallographic sectionand watch under the microscope at work. Poland. Thanks for sharing your knowledge

[@jdbrewer6638]

Great video Jody, thanks for the follow up!

[@weldingtipsandtricks]

thanks brother

[@ronymartinzelaya4508]

his procedures are of great help, for professional training in the welding area, I have been following his processes for a long time.

[@LateNightHacks]

comments? leaving one good comment will increase your chances of sounding legit and worth answering to

[@djshnibz]

Great video, thanks for taking a closer look at that line

[@jimzivny1554]

Good video, love cut n etch, I do it often especially with unknown sourced metals. Sometimes you're stuck with what comes in the door.

[@thekid150539]

I was having intermittent porosity issues the other day, every now and then usually in the middle of a weld I'd start getting gnarly inclusions. kinda like I was welding with pure argon. we were MIG welding in a frigid Massachusetts basement and the tank was damn near ice cold. on lunch break I did some reading poking around forums and found a suggestion from somebody that used to work at airgas who said to roll the tanks. something about the increased surface area of the gas separation boundary. I was definitely skeptical, but it did work and resolve much of my sheilding issues. super neat to see it talked about the very next day.

[@motor2of7]

Frederic Manke IV, interesting. I was recently welding some light gauge material and everything was going fine. But then it all went to crap. Tried a bunch of setting changes to no avail. Came back the next day and all worked well. Will try this trick next time.

[@letusbefree5638]

This happens to me to 😲

[@rebelld8720]

thank you for all video that you made. i'm young welder but i have great experience... you tune me up...thank you again.

[@mccanlessdesign]

Wonderful - as always - thanks for contributing all this. I'm gettin' my wife to watch a little. She's thinking as a retired schoolteacher she should learn to seriously weld - not just stick stuff together . . .

[@sjbl1962]

THANKS Jody, as always, very informative.

[@lyntonr6188]

Great video jody, always something to learn from you 👍

[@rebelld8720]

hi Jody! i watch evry your video, and i must say, you are old scholl and you are real profesional in ar job. Greethings from Serbia...

[@billk5727]

Great information! Especially rolling the gas bottle. Thanks Jody. Bill

[@kyleestes321]

The old timer tips and tricks are pure gold.

[@bcbloc02]

Great learning video! This tech stuff is some of my favorite.

[@GAIS414]

Had a similar problem today while I was mig welding. For about the first ten minutes, it seemed as the gas coverage was poor for some unknown reason. But after that it went back to normal. I will try rolling the cylinder if it happens again. Thanks for the tip.

[@gabewhisen3446]

Great tips I've never heard of rolling the bottle ,I'm gonna have to give it a shot , looking forward to getting the tig fingers ,

[@wildcatwilly]

Way cool video!!! Never heard of rolling the cynlinders crazy lol love your videos taught me a lot always reference them when I'm doing something I haven't done for awhile

[@obi-shankenobi5891]

i dont think ive ever heard of rolling a bottle to troubleshoot for gas issues. thanks for the new/old trick!

[@JimbosGarage]

Good information like always!

[@maxheadflow]

Not sure where it goes against science.. The to gases are basically inert in the container. There isn't any reaction between the two. I makes sense that the heavier gas would build up in the bottom. Separation would not be complete as gas is really a high energy state of any matter so the separation will never be complete but the could easily be enough separation that the mix is no longer homogeneous. Thanks for point this out. I mig weld only on occasion and have had issues. You've again taught me something very useful. Thanks.

[@paulmorrey733]

Cheers Jody - all the best for 20185

[@user-mu8mq1nv8p]

Hi, I'm Thai, I've been following you for a long time and your favorite.

[@chrismiller8421]

Strange

[@user-ib5me5xc9u]

Хорошие видео, хоть и не понимаю язык но интуитивно можно разобраться. Спасибо! Лучший канал! super channel. keep it up.

[@peteshainin6063]

Great video. Thanks. How about some videos on shielding gasses (argon, argon-CO2, Helium)?

[@krazziee2000]

great info, thanks for the lesson .

[@michaelbwbrenner]

Awesome as per usual; Thanks again!

[@f1f1f2f2f3f3]

Excellent content One question here what etching solution do you use for low carbon steel and stainless steel again thanks for high quality video Jody

[@CraigArndt]

I never thought to roll my tank. We have sub zero temps here and I use it sporadically, I’m going to try it.

[@rickreiff6750]

If you would like to send me that mounted outside corner joint, I will get you some very high magnification pictures. That is part of my job here at Welding Alloys USA.

[@weldingtipsandtricks]

I might just take you up on that offer.

[@rickreiff6750]

weldingtipsandtricks. Feel free to, Welding Alloys USA R&D Dept. Attn: Rick Reiff 8535 Dixie Highway Florence, KY. 41042

[@TXHeat1776]

Would love to see that in another follow-up.

[@nakinajay]

weldingtipsandtricks have you made a video of his magnified pictures? I used to flash butt weld railroad rails for Holland LP up in Northern Ontario, Canada. That is a very cool process. Anyways I love your videos even though I am not welding any more. ( heavy equipment operator leadhand now ) I still really enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work Jody. You're the man bud.

[@MrShobar]

Excellent. Many thanks.

[@naderfawzy5958]

Very brilliant Jody Can I ask you about the material you use for etching?

[@allenco65]

hey jody can you get your hands on a invertec v-250-s or 275 and do some tig welding and arc gouging i would reall like to see that thanks for all your work

[@KowboyUSA]

Usually I trust experienced old timers before I trust today's "science."

[@AdamTheJensen]

I really want to see how some of these welding processes (mig, tig, stick, oxy-acetylene, etc) look in slow motion. You should reach out to The Slow Mo Guys or Smarter Every Day. Both channels have great high speed cameras and could probably get some really neat footage.

[@wickedcityracer]

i wish i could get a polishing kit like that

[@Mike-fm2yp]

Have you done much orbital welding stainless tips and tricks on that would be awesome

[@YankeeinSC1]

Hey Jody, if you are ever looking for new material and some "out of the box" thinking kind of stuff, how about making a vid on exothermic or the CADWeld process. Does it have any application in a weld shop? Or maybe even an argument that a TIG weld is better and replaces the technique in all but the most remote field locations? Particularly interesting would be an in the field demo of rebar or rail joining where the rebar will eventually be encapsulated in a concrete structure, or the rail will be ground for train use. Some explanation as to how atmosphere is controlled and how reliable the process is would be interesting too.

[@Huskyresqr]

I could have this completely wrong, but the science appears to be on your side with regard to "bottle rolling." The atomic weight of of Argon is just about 40, not including any isotopes. CO2 has an atomic weight of 44, again exclusive of any Carbon/Oxygen isotopes. So all things being equal, and given enough time and with the bottle not undergoing any movement, it's possible that the CO2 could have started to settle. At least that's the most reasonable explanation for the change in weld quality before and after the bottle roll....and btw, you are a great teacher.....

[@fanwlkr]

Hello. I've been reading a bit, and thinking about doing a TIG 4F sheet test just to see if I can learn something. I saw that it's specified with galvanized 16 ga to solid 1/4 or 1/2" fillet with ER70S-X. Don't think I'll be able to get any galvanized, but I'd be very greatful if you could show how it's done :)

[@danielbrown7231]

I've done Sub arc on 2205 and it often left a center line in the weld but, it passed xray. I don't think there is much you can do about it anyway doing sub arc.

[@rogermarshall2037]

Do you know of a way to preserve a macro etch sample on steel? it tends to rust quickly after etching.

[@thekartracer42]

Interesting on rolling the cylinder! So did that end up helping it quite a bit? Was that what was "off". Thanks for all the tips Jody!!!

[@weldingtipsandtricks]

It did help quite a bit. So I have to think that was the problem

[@Flyingmikey62]

Random or not, it was very interesting!

[@ronymartinzelaya4508]

I am a welding instructor and I like the procedure, which can be applied in the classroom and not the laboratory.

[@LateNightHacks]

different

[@danielbryan6755]

If you have a ultrasonic testing kit you could put the probe on the plate to determine if it were a lamination.

[@sylvestresanchez4848]

Thank you

[@Equiluxe1]

Left long enough undisturbed Argon CO2 mixes will separate as Argon is lighter than CO2, specific gravity of carbon dioxide is 1.589 and Argon is 1.38.

[@Kalroy]

That line is why aerospace usually requires inconel to be heat treated after welding. That and dendritic grain formation. Oh, and I'm talking solely about inconel, though it can happen with the high nickel stainlesses like A286. All of which are uggy to weld.

[@usa661]

Hlw Everybody..!!!😍😍😍😍 Nice jobs..!!!!

[@BlakeKane]

I have a question. In my experience you can literally do every thing you do with tig mig and stick with oxygen welding. So why people not use oxygen all the time and prefer other methods? Thanks for your time!

[@cosprint]

Nope Nothing wrong with this video. Random yet alot of info. Thanks. Oh and does rolling apply to Argon as well?

[@hoshainhoshen606]

very very thanks

[@darkravenmad]

I wouldn't say it was a random video- I would say it's "all in a day's work" - some days go by without a hitch, some days it's every unimagined random thing that can go wrong, one right after the other- It happens to the best of us, it happens to the worst of us! Now I know for the next time I have "one of those days"

[@michaeljohnston9890]

What if you weld test on plate that has this line and they bend test? Could this contribute to a failure like cracking out?

[@robc8604]

michael johnston Yes it could possibly contribute to a failure in the weld. A knowledgeable weld testing tech or CWI would recognize this and allow you to retest or possibly remove a bend from another area of the test sample (if it was a small area of lamination). I have also seen it not affect the weld at all, which would be acceptable as it is not a welder defect.

[@Jairmyster]

Please please please please, do a video about backhanded tig welding. Or better know as backwards tig.

[@honkmeer389]

How is that liquid called that makes you See the Weld?

[@cavemansmancave9025]

Jody, Physics does actually predict that gas phenomenon. Argon is lighter than CO2. Given enough time, stable temperatures and not moving the bottle, the gas mixture at the top of the bottle will be different than that at the bottom. Maybe not a lot but enough to affect your welding results. Thanks for the video. John

[@allesklarklaus147]

Caveman's Mancave No the gases mix themselves through molecular movement. Basically like putting heavy lead and light glas marbles in a glas. If you shake them all day long they'll stay mixed. The gas shakes itself because it has a high enough temperature which just means the molecules are moving around enough to sort of stir themselves.

[@cavemansmancave9025]

alles klar klaus I beg to differ. Heavy gasses like CO2 will settle into open pits at high enough concentrations to suffocate humans in less than a minute. Gasses do tend to separate based on molecular weight and gravitational effects in a process called stratification as long as the mixture is not agitated by thermal gradients or externally applied motion. It happens in our atmosphere.

[@allesklarklaus147]

Caveman's Mancave There is some ongoing discussion in another comment which I read after commenting here. People go both ways.. What I think is: CO2 only settles in pits if it is pumped into there or somehow gets into the pit. Also 5% is enough for humans to be damgerous if I recall that correctly which is not that much at all. It will also bugger off after some time on it's own. I understand your comment the way that just digging an unenclosed hole into the ground won't make it go into there, which it should do if it was really sorta settling out. Now for say a mine I don't think there is just CO2 getting down there from the air in atmosphere and filling it bottom first with pure CO2 or something like 30-50% CO2.

[@allesklarklaus147]

Caveman's Mancave and those stratification effects are just for big scale. In fact, I just looked it up to confirm I am not talking bullshit and the wikipedia page about our atmosphere and stratification says the relative concentration of the gasses stays constant to about 10km (33.000ft)

[@artgoat]

There's another issue people aren't considering: At tank pressures, CO2 is not a gas. It is a liquid. It has to evaporate into a gas to be drawn out of the bottle.

[@LateNightHacks]

The mixing of gases is scientifically valid though as far as I can tell. they are liquids at room temperature, they are not dissolved into each other and they won't form complexes as far as I know, so they would separate to some extent due to density and gravity. they won't form clear very distinct layers but more of layers with fuzzy boundaries due to brownian motion.

[@blahfasel2000]

Yepp. That's why centrifuges for uranium enrichment work. The centrifuge only provides a higher "gravity" to speed up the process. With uranium we are talking about a density difference of only 0.8%, whereas with CO2 and argon it is about 10%, which is why they might separate noticably even without a centrifuge over the course of a few weeks. Also, while argon as a noble gas might be very close to an ideal gas in behaviour, CO2 under pressure most definitely isn't, which might increase the separation tendency as well.

[@Kalroy]

Even as a gas we know that atmosphere can separate in a berm or confined space and people can die because of it. I don't know how long it takes for that to happen, but that's a problem in some pretty mundane situations. I don't know if it can happen in a few days in a bottle or not.

[@leocurious9919]

They are not liquids. They are far above their critical temperature . Argon has a critical temperature of -120°C, its never going to be a liquid in any gas cylinder at any pressure as log as its warmer than that. In any human-scale gases cant(!) separate in a gas cylinder. They do that at planet-scales a little bit, but that would be going too deep now and is too irrelevant for us here. For the rolling: Next time instead of doing that just do everything except the rolling. So get the flow meter off etc. but dont move the cylinder. Then put everything back together. Test. Now do it again and this time with rolling. Test again. You will see no difference. That way possible leaks etc. will be sealed and the system is purged and if anything does indeed happen it would much more likely be the "rolling" that did it and not everything else. Edit: How much CO2 is Jody using (portion)? We could actually exceed its vapour pressure and get it liquid, its below critical temperature (31°C) usually. Then, due to the slightly higher density of CO2-vapour, it could stay at the bottom after beeing evaporated due to gas beeing removed from the cylinder (welding). That would result in a 3-layer system of liquid CO2 at the bottom, CO2 gas above it and CO2+Argon at the top. Since the valve is at the top it will let argon-enriched gas get out, not the specified mixture. In that case rolling would be somewhat scientifically correct. It all depends on the outside/gas cylinder temperature and CO2 content (= its vapour pressure). Lower temperature and higher CO2 content = worse

[@LateNightHacks]

@Leo Curious Even if all the components are at supercritical state it shouldn't matter. liquids do separate due to gravity so do gases. I can't think of a valid reason why in supercritical state gravity would lose its grip.

[@blahfasel2000]

I would be with you if we weren't talking about CO2. CO2 doesn't really like mixing with other gases under high pressure. I couldn't find data for argon/CO2, however for N2/CO2, the enthalpy of mixing for a 72.5%/27.5% mixture at 31°C is around 160J/mol at 34bar and 600J/mol at 64bar. You can see the sharp increase with pressure, I imagine it will be even higher at the 170bar in a gas bottle. It also increases with lower temperatures (at 40°C, the values are 160J/mol and 440J/mol respectively). This means mixing CO2 with N2 is highly endergonic at high pressure. In addition, diffusion of one gas in another is also affected by pressure, the coefficient of diffusion is roughly inverse proportional to the pressure. Therefore, the diffusion within the bottle is greatly reduced compared to athmospheric pressure. You would really have to do proper experiments (measuring the gas composition), however I still think that it is possible that a noticeable gradient might develop in a pressurized Ar/CO2 mixture over time.

[@corbanyl]

Hello Jody. I've being following your videos for quite some time and learned a lot from them yet I'm not a welder so decided to ask for an advice for my particular task (for which I actually become interested in welding in the first place). I'm working on the trailer for Tiny House for the moment and before getting into welding real thing I wanted to test my welding process. I used MIG with 0.8 mm wire, Ar+CO2 (proportions should be 90%/10% but might be off as everything here in Ukraine :) ), 25V and 15 m/min feed speed to get into spray transfer mode - the hottest that I can get from my welding rig. I tried to weld 40x40x4 mm square tube to a face of 100x60x4 tube. Aparently I made root opening not wide enough and there is LOF at the root but aside from this I see that welding nugget at the bigger tube has little to no penetration (one of the sample shown a plain crack :( ). Welding started at about +5 Celcius and I weleded one side at a time so it seems like heating the test peace increased penetration with every new side. I looked into AWS D1.1 and it says that for this thickness of metal it's alloweable to weld starting at 0 Celcius. I'm curious if I should preheat details or am I just missing something else? Photo of etched test piece: facebook.com/kryhatka/photos/a.1462729170506575.1073741835.1419834911462668/1463489417097217/?type=3&theater In comments I've added a drawing of the setup which completely mimics one of the steps of assambling of my trailer. Seqence and direction of beads is indicated with blue numbers and arrows but can be changed. Position and relation of tubes cannot. Just in case you might find it interesting to repeat this test and shoot a video out from it. :) P.S. As alternative I tried stick weld the same test setup with ESAB OK 55.00 (AWS E7018-1H4 R) 3.2mm at 90A and it gives a better penetration yet first bead still looks almost flat with the face of the horizontal tube. Aside from LOF in root (flux got in 2 mm root opening) and I've got some undercut on the sides about 1 mm deep. But that is a different story. Best regards, Corban.

[@corbanyl]

Same test samples under USB microscope at x50 zoom. As I suspected, straight lines are rather sighn of LOF. :( Any way thanks for the idea to cut and etch testing welds to check quality of welding. Will do more of these before I'll proceed with welding real thing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5Pdkq1rnduKppY

[@dougankrum3328]

...8:08....there's that line again...!

[@Bryan-nh1xn]

Have Miller 350 welding 6 1/2mm set the machine 25.0 at 380 is that way too hot in your opinion 80 KSI metal anyone

[@jamessonger3]

id love to know what kinda chemicals you use to etch the metal... im sure its some high dollar stuff but id still like to know.

[@robc8604]

songer121 For carbon steel Nital works great, it's nitric acid and methanol (or ethanol). You only need 2-5 percent of the nitric to get it to etch, though I like it a little stronger as it pops quicker. Having the sample heated up helps the process. If those aren't available naval jelly by loctite will do it, I learned that one from Jody. He also has a video on household products for etching.

[@weldingtipsandtricks]

its a passivization solution made by chemclean and its called ox out 540L. not sure where you can get it but I recently learned that you can get ferric chloride etchant on amazon ( used for etching printed circuit boards) for 20 bucks or so...and it works really good. knife makers use it for etching damascus.

[@jamessonger3]

hey thanks! gonna check it out.

[@artgoat]

I don't see why gasses couldn't come at least partially stratified. The two gasses are different densities. CO2 is around 2 kg/cubic meter. Argon density is 80% of that. Even water with different salinities can become stratified. Even more important, CO2 is a partial liquid at the pressures in the tank, and argon is still entirely a gas, so it's not surprising that the argon could become the majority of the gas sitting above the liquid, while the CO2 condenses out. When the CO2 fraction decreases due to condensation, you'll get less penetration. It's not the same situation as helium and argon, which are both gasses at all pressures. Brownian motion can only overcome so much.

[@ronymartinzelaya4508]

can you show me what you use as a reagent

[@LateNightHacks]

three

[@jedisdad2265]

Google “centerline segregation of continuous cast steel slabs”. What you are seeing is an example of this metallurgical phenomenon. Laminations are not as common today in plate made from slabs vs old ingot steels.

[@jp2code]

I see an Ouchie on that Left Thumb.

[@peteyycrack]

Lamination? What do u mean?

[@Martinsp16]

Ou yeah!

[@motoxrrar1]

What happened to your thumb ?

[@catfishbobj]

If you look at 8:08 on your video you'll see that same line again .

[@gabewhisen3446]

Your videos are invaluable to me so I will order the two tig fingers from weldmonger.com I'll comment on the shipping speed since it's Friday I'll deduct sat sun as 48hours from the time, thanks for the professional welding tips n tricks

[@gregfeneis609]

Please note: Not all gases can have their tanks manipulated like that and then be safely immediately used. Acetylene comes to mind. Perhaps there are others?

[@robertshepherd995]

Pretty sure this only applies to shielding gasses

[@trailerpark187]

Argon and helium especially need to be mixed. Welds way better

[@lilozwelder0478]

Did any one else see the words flash on the top of the video at about 2:00

[@curtisbyman2646]

You are not a Welder. Stop.

[@TheSoundOfTwang]

Curtis Byman Is Jody not a welder?