Proof You're Running Your CNC Bits Too Slow

We pushed the limits by running a CNC bit at over 1000 inches per minute! Join Ryan Drapela from Cutting It Close as he dives into feed rates, chipload, and common mistakes CNC beginners make. Learn how to optimize your CNC machining and avoid costly errors with this in-depth guide.
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Bits used in this video:
1/4'' Mortise Compression : cicworkshop.com/collections/b...
1/4'' Upcut : cicworkshop.com/collections/b...
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About Cutting It Close:
Our goal is to help aspiring craftsmen do what they love for a living! We hope to share our knowledge in the woodworking field and CNC routering through training videos, CNC router techniques, unique projects, and practical applications.
00:00 Intro
00:57 What is Chipload?
03:19 Common Mistakes
05:06 Cutting on CNC
08:39 Action Items & Takeaways

[@tmbfam9425]

Had the pleasure of meeting Ryan today! Great guy and full of energy. Crazy how another subscriber and I visited on the same day with almost the same story. Keep it up! Your on the right path.

[@cutting-it-close]

Thank you for stopping by, inspiring story man keep it up, let’s do big things in small towns!

[@monarchco]

One suggestion on ramping. Instead of half the feed rate, both major manufacturers (amana and whiteside) recommend feed rate divided by cutters. So for a 2 flute, yeah its half feed rate, but for a 3 flute the plunge is 1/3rd feed rate, or 1 flute it is feed rate same as plunge.

[@greglopez9311]

I've spent a while from time to time looking for appropriate F&Speeds for my bits and machine. The info available is all over the place. YOU my friend, have me the confidence to push my machine/bits to find what works for me. I am making a spreadsheet after testing my bits individually thanks to you. Tremendous help. I am looking forward to your upcoming chart. Thank you, G

[@SRG216]

That's impressive. It would also be nice to see the chip load displayed along with feeds and speeds.

[@acerjuglans383]

1/4" downcut bit 425 ipm 18000 rpm 3/8" depth of cut 0.0014 chipload 1/4" compression bit 250 ipm 18000 rpm 3/4" depth of cut 0.0035 chipload

[@woodman928]

I seen a CNC at the Atlanta show back in the 90s that was running a 1/4" bit cutting 3/4 ply in one pass at 3000"/min all day long. Anderson also had a machine doing same thing in 3/4 MDF with a 3/8 bit

[@brianwade8481]

Thanks for the great content in the video. I’ve been running my speeds faster with good success. After watching the video I know I can increase my DoC for my end mills.

[@thanhnhanhuynhnguyen3652]

itve been a longg time. really glad to see your vid

[@acerjuglans383]

I would say those bits werent actually moving at 1000 ipm, because your toolpath was short. It takes time to speed up, and then slow down in a short distance. Just like trying to drive a Corvette around a city block, you're never going to get it up to speed, because the distance is just too short before you have to slow down to take the corner. If you really want to see 1000 ipm, do an 8 foot long straight cut in that plywood.

[@cutting-it-close]

It got up to speed in the video, that’s why I did 2ft squares and did a raster pocket so it would, I do agree with you on shorter paths it’s hard for it to get up to speed in a 6 inch area.

[@AlexK07010]

i was going to say the same. not enough distance to accelerate and decelerate and maintain 1000IPM. Can shop sabre actually cut at those speeds? i know rapids are 2100IPM but thats not while cutting

[@mrlttlman0]

@@AlexK07010 i concur i dont think he hits 16.666666666........ inches per second

[@shopsabre]

Thank you for sharing, love watching your ShopSabre eat away at that material!

[@RobSandstromDesigns]

Another excellent video Ryan.

[@cutting-it-close]

Thank you!

[@skpince]

Everything this dude says is damn right. I went thru the same shit.

[@HitsandHeadlines]

I was cutting 3/4 plywood full depth with 3/16 bit at 70 ipm. Cut through 100 sheets before the bit broke.

[@leonardhofer698]

nice keep it up what a joke

[@LDBecker]

Thanks for the calculator offer - my little 3hp Laguna IQ Pro 2x4 really doesn't seem happy over 100 ips, but I never know if it's something I've programmed wrong or what. Looking forward to your calculator!

[@samthomas6976]

It's the power of your spindle. You need a powerful spindle to get better results

[@TrolloTV]

@@samthomas6976 For these small machines the limiting factor is usually rigidity and not spindle HP

[@TrolloTV]

How deep are you cutting? Less rigid machines often cant really keep up with the "depth = diameter" rule Ryan mentioned

[@LDBecker]

@@TrolloTV Normally I do the depth=diameter thing. With compression bits, I cut below where the compression cut on the bit changes, but that's usually about the same. I've tried varying depths and speeds - kind of a guessing game, and of course it changes with the hardness of the wood as well. I'm pretty sure I have to stay at under 100 ipm for speed on this machine. He has essentially the same starter Laguna IQ machine I have (same make and frame, but smaller size, no tool changer), so I'm curious to see what he says. I also use Amana coated bits, so I'm not using cheapies...

[@stlwoodworking]

Good explanation. I run my AVID way faster than I should most of the time LOL

[@cutting-it-close]

Does it handle it well? Hope you like the BamCore!

[@stlwoodworking]

@@cutting-it-close yeah the AVID is a beast. I got it I just haven't had a chance to make anything with it yet. I'll text you as soon as I cut something 😁

[@tpsooner7816]

Hoping to try my BamCore later today!

[@cokimi1301]

@@cutting-it-close The table is a bit more shaky than the shopsabre but other than that it delivers good results

[@cokimi1301]

How? the Nema34 cant handle 1000ipm, max is around 500 I believe

[@CarveLife]

I tried one of those hog bits the other day. Damn you can push those bits like crazy.

[@robertyack1661]

Another great vid, sir. When i click on the Calculator email wait list, it just goes to your products page...

[@morthim]

this video was pretty inspiring. there is something that seems wrong. if your bit is going perpendicular to the plane, it seems like you are putting lots of force in the bit pushing it forward. seems liek there is room for faster debris excavation. but it isn't clear how. the more you reduce the cutting head's material the weaker it will be. but if you can create basicly laminite strips of the tool going down the path without having the cnc itself rotate- it would be able to be run much much faster. but there is somehting about the difference between going with grain and against, and with debris....

[@ashleehouse5204]

Very interesting.

[@yasinkolgu]

Free technical advice😊

[@seabeegamer4498]

I get that with plywood, but most of my cnc projects are hardwoods, walnut, maple, oak, etc. Does this transfer to those harder woods? I just have a hard time thinking that my onefinity journeyman can handle more than 150 ipm or so.

[@heathmichael142]

For someone like me who has a desktop CNC with something like a makita router on it, would you still recommend plunging down to the same depth as the diameter of the bit? So if Im using a .25 " bit, would I still plunge down to .25" into the material? Great video! Thanks for posting it!

[@wicherdknetemann]

The router can, or will bog down rpm if not.. the cnc you need to test.. how rigid is it. Pay attention to chatter and deflection during the cut. As mentioned in vid.. test, hand on the stopbutton.. 😉

[@2507pegaz]

clicked on the link for feedrate calculator and it takes me to your home page. I cant find it

[@cutting-it-close]

Haven’t released it yet, there should be a signup so I can email it to you once I get it finished up in the next week or so

[@nikopeters9660]

Where can get a ⅜ bit? And what brand?

[@dian3145]

Great demonstration of bit’s capabilities. How much of a difference would you apply to a hardwood? I know most of your work is in ply (all that glue!) but I do most of mine in hardwood. Well, prototype in pine, but final in hardwood. TIA.

[@cutting-it-close]

So I would slow the feedrate down some, but I pocket and cut hardwood mostly in the shop, honestly didn’t want to cut through a good panel and waste it so I did plywood for the video instead. But I cut hardwoods using a rougher then come back with a finisher. This avoids tear out, leaves a clean edge and a makes sanding much easier.

[@dian3145]

@@cutting-it-close Thanks for the quick reply! I checked my specs and it’s rated as max 9”/sec, 22000 with a 1.25hp peak. So, I look forward to your chart to push some boundaries 😎

[@InspiredCraftsman]

When cutting hardwoods, I've had better luck doing multiple passes running pretty fast instead of full depth slow. I use a lot of 1/8 cutters. Easiest way I've found to dial in a feed and speed for each bit is so a couple sample line cuts listening to the bit.

[@dian3145]

@@InspiredCraftsman Thanks! I have also only used 1/8 for cutting. Running a few tests per material like that is a great idea 👍

[@InspiredCraftsman]

@dian3145 I've also cut up to 5/8 hardwood in one pass with 1/8 compression bit by spetool 1/4 shank. Took some testing but I was trying to reduce tear out top and bottom, and reduce the lines that can show up on the side of the piece when doing step down cuts. Works great, and the compression bit packs sawdust behind it as it goes holding the piece in place, eliminating the need for tabs.

[@thanhnhanhuynhnguyen3652]

Can you explain why the bits didnt break when you run it faster than recommended chip load? I thought running faster than the recommended would break the bit cause the bit is slammed into the wood as it cant cu fast enough

[@cutting-it-close]

Over a longer period of time, running a bit that fast may cause it to break faster. Remember, friction and vibrations… so a bit running over the recommended chipload is going to have a less good cut quality and going to have some deflection because it’s taking off so much wood at a time. It would be better to run at the correct chipload for the longest life. It does get the point across that bits are much stronger than you think!

[@thanhnhanhuynhnguyen3652]

@@cutting-it-close Thanks a for sharing! really appreciate it!

[@Convolutedtubules]

Are you sure the machine reached full feed rste? It looks like it is accelerating/decelerating the entire time.

[@TheSepharos]

Hey Guys i just started with CNC and finished my first 2 small projects.. I orderd a 40piece set of diffrenct 1/8" Bits.. it only cost 30€.. Now i am not sure if i should upgrade to expensiv bits.. is it worth to pay 30-40€ per Bit as a newbie? The reccommaned Feedrate form the supplier is 420mm/min (16,5inch/min) and a depth of 0,5mm (0,02inch) and tbh is suchs to see that even small projects need hours :D

[@acerjuglans383]

Those numbers seem WAAAAAYYYYYYY too slow and shallow.

[@TrolloTV]

Nah, no point in getting really expensive bits for small machines that only see hobby use. Ive settled on Dreanique bits (aliexpress) and they work well. That side: the recommended feedrate there is way to slow

[@laroast8531]

I machine almost exclusively hardwoods and would like to figure out the limits of my Avid. I feel like I'm running to slow but have broken several bits trying to go fast. Tooling is very expensive when you're just starting out.

[@TrolloTV]

What were your cutting conditions to break a bit? (diameter, feed/speed, depth?)

[@laroast8531]

@@TrolloTV Machine is an avid 5x10 with a 6.4hp spindle. 1/4" bit, down cut, on pocket plunges and profile operations. Roughly anything over 45ipm 18000 rpm and over 1/8" cut depth. Down cut is not Ideal for these operations and needs to run a bit slower because of poor chip evacuation. It's necessary for the cut quality needed on the face of the part. I'm profiling at 36ipm 18000rpm now. To solve the pocketing issue I use a very long ramp so by the time the ramp is done the bit is only taking the 50% step over and not the whole diameter. 65ipm 18000rpm after the ramp works fine. Both cuts are still =< .125" though. It feels very slow but at $40 a bit and a starting business yet to turn a profit I can't afford to be smashing piles of them testing at the moment.

[@Alan-bm3ni]

​@@laroast8531buy cheaper bits. I've only used spetool at home. They have a tool library with feeds and speeds for different wood types. They recommend hardwood at way over 100ipm and doc equal to the diameter. But, step over must be kept at 15-20%. Run faster with a bigger depth of cut and a small step over.

[@matthewcleveland577]

What bits are you using and why are they making such a high pitch whining sound? When im cutting cabinets I stopped getting that loud whining sound when i swapped to good bits from vortex or frost cnc. Amana bits use to sound like that, not saying amana makes terrible bits and they definitely make some specialized stuff, but frost and vortex seem to be on a different level. Not saying they're really quiet, but they sound good when they cut.

[@JamesMFinley]

Just got a Shapeoko 4 and ran her for the first time yesterday. For a quarter inch end mill the default Depth per Pass is set to .02 inches for hardwood. Am I understanding you that this could be as high as .25 inches?

[@cutting-it-close]

For my big CNC’s I go as much as .75 inches. For your machines, yes .25 inches for sure. You can go 3x diameter with wood, I usually only do 1x-2x

[@JamesMFinley]

@@cutting-it-close gonna give it a shot today!

[@cutting-it-close]

How did it go?

[@JamesMFinley]

@@cutting-it-close I was able to speed it up a fair amount, about 2x, but think I need to improve my clamping solutions to go any faster.

[@treydrewett4123]

Where do you find your 3/8" bits for wood? Most of my googling takes me to websites I've never dealt with.

[@cutting-it-close]

I’ll have mine up on the website in a few days!

[@FrazerCanyonWoodworks]

Bits & Bits

[@TrolloTV]

Dreanique bits from aliexpress work well for me. Good value for money

[@matthewcleveland577]

Frost CNC

[@samthomas6976]

I worked at a place that only ran nesting cnc's at 14m per minute and told them it was too slow and ran it at 25m per min after some arguments. I still think they dont realise how much time i saved them

[@rcamoonpie648]

Rooster tail like a top fuel hydro drag boat😎

[@lesterandreas9005]

Dude you have me confused it’s not Sunday Lol. Is your cnc actually reaching 1,000ipm on the shorter distances ? BTW congrats to the new addition to the family.

[@cutting-it-close]

I know, I figured you could drink coffee and watch on Saturdays as well haha. It does at a 24 inch cut, at a 6inch cut, it doesn’t reach the speed. I ran a 3/8 bit at 1,600 ipm on the Onsrud accidentally the other day on long cut paths and it didn’t break. Total accident though.

[@lesterandreas9005]

@@cutting-it-close now I wana try 1600ipm on my thermwood. The max I was comfortable with was 1,000.

[@carlslater7492]

When you are pocketing why aren't you using an adaptive toolpath? Much easier on the bit.

[@cutting-it-close]

I did the pocket this way for the video. This way everyone understands that the bit does reach full feed rate because of the straight line.

[@travisc8293]

i fell like i just watched an Titan of CNC clip BOOM.

[@rauloswalt4319]

I really like your video and I sure appreciate the lesson. But I dare you to do this with aluminum.😂😂😂

[@veelink6345]

I think you fooled yourself I doubt that it hit 1000 ipm the cut paths ramp up to the feed speed from the starting point and ramp down before corners simply because the stepper motors or Servos cannot just slam into 1000ipm from a stand still they can't even slam into 100imp for the matter, it is programmed into the motor drives to match the motors you can't defeat that without damaging your machine. you could have probably put in 10,000imp, and it wouldn't have made a difference because your cut paths were too short to hit the speed setting in your cam software or gcode. just fyi.

[@cutting-it-close]

They were 2ft cut paths, the machine made it up to speed at 2ft lines, I ran a 3/8 bit at 1600ipm on my CR Onsrud the other day on a 4ft cut and it didn’t break. You can also correlate the 450 ipm cut by the 1/4bit and the 1000ipm cut by the 3/8 and see it’s noticeably faster.

[@brandons9138]

I doubt you are actually hitting 1000 IPM in the pocket. The acceleration and deceleration time of the gantry in small of a pocket takes to long. Around the profile you MIGHT be hitting that IPM. Seeing as the gantry doesn't have to change directions 180 degrees.

[@leonardhofer698]

but why would you want to

[@wackojacko1997]

Don't try this with one of the toy Next Wave Automation plastic CNCs.

[@cyberreefguru]

Hey man - love your videos but recommending 1x the diameter for nearly every hobbyist machine is a bad idea. You say that when you cover rigidity but beginners are not going to put that together. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should 😬

[@thanhnhanhuynhnguyen3652]

Hobbyist machines are extremely subjective. Some can be monstrous some can be super super bad. However the average ones can do well with what he suggested. Mine is average

[@cyberreefguru]

@@thanhnhanhuynhnguyen3652 Yes, it is extremely subjective. I believe anyone with a "monstrous" "hobby" CNC probably knows that -- someone buying a 3080 on Amazon does not. The right answer is to caveat any claims "do your own testing".

[@TrolloTV]

@@thanhnhanhuynhnguyen3652 Anything like a shapeoko will struggle hard doing that. And thats what most people have

[@YaroslaffFedin]

What i dont personally understand is based on your videos you are working 80-100 hours a week, and you do not invest time in learning CAD/CAM better, and not figuring out the better approaching to programming and doing toolpaths (e.g. imachining/adaptive paths). Maybe something has changed since the 3 year old video, but it's still curious

[@cutting-it-close]

I did the pocket this way for the video. This way everyone understands that the bit does reach full feed rate because of the straight line.

[@YaroslaffFedin]

@@cutting-it-close i think it makes sense. it is impressive engagement indeed.

[@TrolloTV]

Yeah, i was wondering the same watching that older video where he goes really fast in oak. Horrible toolpaths :D But i do believe his production would be more optimized

[@brianrobinson371]

I am Ryan Drapela and i love Mentioning Money, i think we get it bro. Adds nothing to your video's which are good otherwise

[@cutting-it-close]

I say it for the person out there that needs to know it’s possible start small and grow to bigger things.

[@workermancycles]

I am brian robinson and I'm a hater

[@brianrobinson371]

@@workermancycles Gimp