Cypress FX3 as a Possible Logic Analyzer

[@fuzzy1dk]

so their answer to cheap chinese knock-offs using their software is to increase prices? that's going to work :)

[@CNLohr]

yesssssss

[@eekpie]

Thought the first logic 8 was overpriced. Essentially a $10 cypress dev board. Then they updated the software and you needed to swap the eeprom to one with a certain range of ID's to make the newer software work. Eventually bought one on offer from guilt but this new pricing is making me question my choice

[@radio655]

Seems like an act of desperation. To me, this looks like the beginning of the end of Saleae.

[@fuzzy1dk]

to be fair, dev boards can be sold at a loss their purpose is to make business not money. Saleae has to make money somehow, developing software isn't free

[@Peter_S_]

Saleae has to make money somehow and that's by offering a great product at a decent price. I based a piece of production test equipment off one of their Logic16 units and while it was quite pricey for what it was, it worked and their software was the only thing that justified the price. When I went to update the tester they had discontinued the Logic 16 and replaced it with the more expensive Logic16 Pro which offered me new nothing I wanted and broke up the input ports which I didn't want. That made me craft a complete replacement written on the PRU of a Beaglebone. Bye Saleae!!! Now with this price gouge I'm very glad I ditched them. Saleae, you've completely alienated me.

[@NRBW]

LimeSDR uses the FX3 as the USB controller : github.com/myriadrf/LimeSDR-USB_FX3

[@tenet-rotas]

yay the legend made a video again!

[@OMNI_INFINITY]

*Built a relatively large all-urban-terrain robot with a make controller about 15 calendar years ago. Does that company still make MCU boards?*

[@L1Q]

Inspiring!

[@DirkDulfer]

You are 100% right in those last 10 seconds of this video! Just try, always!

[@OMNI_INFINITY]

*Haha. Other than C? No...aside from assembly, but that sadly isn't so portable. C is as close as it gets to that seemingly.*

[@englishrupe01]

Cool stuff, thanks! I now have two of these bought for $4 each off Ebay (EZ-USB FX2's i should say) and working fine! Thanks for the github!

[@ranger81de]

I guess you are one of the smartest guys on this planet, your work is amazing!

[@EE_GEEK_369]

I can't believe it, just like if you were talking about me. I was introduced to the FX3 a couple weeks ago. I had a contact with someone from Cypress/Infineon because I had several questions regarding the FX3 in a special project. Well, they didn't help much, and most of them seem unaware of the inner workings of the device. Most of the info they provided are available. But I remember, the first question I asked was whether the GPIF II designer works in the Linux SDK, and they said no, you will have to use Windows for this. Anyways, my problem is still unsolved. I loved GPIF and the way you can interface to other chips. I was wondering if I can ask you a few questions since I'm totally new to Cypress/Infineon ecosystem.

[@CNLohr]

It is frustrating that I had to use Windows to use the designer, but all the other firmware works fine in Linux. I regret I can't answer many questions about this, but you could always try to ping my Discord server (link in my youtube page's about section)

[@Remowylliams]

Heard you mention TinyCC and clicked Subscribe. Nice to know someone else uses the amazing little compiler.

[@cveliz_]

Open TechLab's channel worked in the development of Sigrok if i'm not wrong.

[@UpcycleElectronics]

IIRC he did the Sigrok GUI but said he passed the baton on the project. I love his videos too. I learned a ton about and built my first freeCAD project using his tutorial on that one 2 days ago. He has an awesome channel for people that want to explore any/everything (they can put up in smoke).

[@NickNorton]

You, running Windows? W. T. F. I'd rather use an Amiga than go back to running Windows.

[@kingoffishes]

I hurt a little inside on the windows switch, but another good video nonetheless. I loved the positive message in the end. I understand the rage of the price increase, and there is a fine line of a company's ability to increase a price to sustain it's business and employees. I think what you pay for when you ultimately buy a prepackaged solution is the guarantee. (Most) companies will work for you to ensure their service is provided, so while a hacked together solution will work, it will be tough to be used in any production environment. Ultimately we are just paying for silicon, metal, plastic and some other assortments of materials and I think that the real value lies from the logic, assembly and time people put into the product, whether that's the design decisions or the functional pipeline. My 0.02.

[@MadyWinter]

Looks like sigrok already supports the fx2, is it much different to the fx3?

[@brainndamage]

MadyWinter the fx2 is a 8051 core and the fx3 supposedly ARM9 so probably no

[@alonetrio]

too bad you stopped your HTC vive stuff.... :/

[@DerSolinski]

He didn't he was just busy, I'm sure he will pick it up again. Besides the project is not dead, join the Discord Server :-)

[@swilwerth]

This video aged well

[@CNLohr]

In that no one ever took this and ran or that there's still no competition?

[@anticom1337]

It would be awesome if this video started yet another community effort like your video about the vive did

[@CNLohr]

Oh man that would be awesome. I had kinda thought about streaming this but I was stuck in Windows :-/

[@arabiccola]

It seems that 6 years later, the Sigrok people have not yet seen your video. Neither the FX2 nor the FX3 development boards are supported as logic analyser devices. What a shame.

[@CNLohr]

People have made PRs, but they had issues with the binary blob code for the part to initialize the GPIF engine. So who knows if they'll ever accept it.

[@ChartreuseKitsune]

Might also been nice as a logic analyzer for vintage computer repair where there's wide parallel buses that could use the full 32 bit width of the GPIF system. Guessing that application would need a buffer like dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Open_Bench_Logic_Sniffer has (for only 16/32 channels). Since it seems the FX3 has a max input voltage of Vcc+0.3, or ~3.6V.

[@CNLohr]

You could probably tolerate a lower impedance on the inputs. My favorite kind of logic level shifter: The resistor divider.

[@alpagutsencer]

i think Seleae uses Cypress too. I saw these GPIF stuff on eevblog before. Good work!

[@CNLohr]

The ooold ones used a Cypress... But I don't know anything about the new ones.

[@MakeKasprzak]

Understandably at $700. Yikes.

[@JockMurphy]

I believe they are FPGA based

[@Peter_S_]

The original Logic16 was a Spartan6 with a Cypress USB interface if I recall correctly.

[@rpavlik1]

CNLohr new ones use a Cypress plus an fpga with some ram. So it's not quite the same "gpif->USB" direct architecture anymore.

[@skylinelapse]

Where is the linux mint?

[@CNLohr]

Support added last night.

[@skylinelapse]

CNLohr thanks willy wonka

[@jellecoder6400]

Why mint? You need to run Kali or some other security os. Get VIM and just remember to install stuff in the terminal. Comes preloaded with amp the little things you need

[@therealchayd]

That's crazy pricing; the original digital-only logic was much more reasonably priced. Most tinkerers don't need 8 analog channels (don't get me wrong, it would be *nice* to have that, but not a deal breaker)

[@H32-u7d]

You have no idea how much this helped thank you

[@bennguyen1313]

I think the Saleae LP16 also uses the Cypress FX3.. but in addition has ADCs, an FPGA, bunch of analog circuitry... I assume all that is for fancy triggering? Not sure if they support Sigrok/fx3lafw, but I've seen some nice reviews of low-cost logic analyzers : Analog Discovery 2, IkaLogic SP209, and the LogicPort!

[@jojodi]

Great stuff. +1 To trying to get Sigrok support. Pretty interested to see what all can be built with that GPIF program. Could it not run via Wine? (I'm sure you tried)

[@SpikeShroom]

Okay I would totally buy that thing, I just have one small problem: I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I don't think I understood a single word other than "Eclipse" lol. This is coming from a comp sci student. I'm really interested though - how the heck do you even start on learning...whatever this is?

[@kartikeyajp8294]

Loved your take on FX3 board. Was thinking that is possible. But your end message made it even clearer that. WE HAVE TO GIVE IT TRY. inspirational 💯

[@confusedwolf7157]

Yay my christmas just came early this year. Spite programming needs a guru to write a standard. Seriously have a bunch of these horrors (boards). Igor! Start the generators!

[@damny0utoobe]

Hey cnlohr, I read the whole discussion around licensing/blobs and why it can't be used with sigrok because they can't carry the binary because of proprietary sdk issues with cypress. Is there anyway around to making it work with sigrok using your own binary?

[@lawrencemanning]

This is excellent. is the rest of the software functionality: triggers, protocol analysers, and storing it in a way that doesn't require loads of RAM, definitely just a trivial excersise?

[@davidgronlund3463]

Perseverance through spite. We won't give up just because we don't want to give entropy the satisfaction.

[@slap_my_hand]

FTDI has the FT600 and FT601, which are way cheaper than the FX3. I think they can be configured to work as a logic analyzer, but they don't have the fancy state machine stuff.

[@CNLohr]

It's ftdi. Never ftdi. They are seriously bad for the long term health of any product. Also their pipelines are really fixed and janky.

[@davidcain3752]

A goal of mine is to approach your level geez. I love the message at the end, very motivating!

[@MakeKasprzak]

Nice. I was able to get a slightly better shipping price to Canada with Mouser (free, by padding my order with a Lattice IceStick (FINALLY back in stock) and a couple cheap Cyprus CY8CKIT kits). If only Cyprus software was Linux friendly.

[@MakeKasprzak]

There. Got mine.

[@jc_daddy]

Thanks for posting your source code for this on Github. I was able to get it working with a little effort (try, try try!), and I need a working FX3 design for a side job, so this was very helpful!

[@CNLohr]

Absolutely! It's all free to use without final attribution :) for everyone's use.

[@RoyvanLierop]

Have you tried the PSoC 5LP kit? its a $10 kit from Cypress. Might be interesting to make a Verilog episode.

[@CNLohr]

I have this opinion about FPGAs and FPGA-like tools. I've seen engineers pour far too much time and effort into them. I really think 90% of the time when people try solving an issue with something with an FPGA/CPLD or hybrid proecessor, using a different processor altogether would be better.

[@mrmega328]

Nice work. If you really wanted to get something up and running quickly with Sigrok, you could check out supported Sigrok analysers to see how they write their data and emulate that, but it's easier if Sigrok can support your device directly. There's also the Beaglebone Logic analyser, 100Msps, just a bit more expensive but your one would be way more compact. It might have taken weeks if you went the old fashion way, MCU (or CPLD) with SRAM with a USB interface (limited sample depth would be a pain).

[@CNLohr]

Yeah... beaglebone never really interested me mostly because of the cost and how sophisticated the environment was. I'm also really sad when working inside other projects and I don't think I'm the best person to add support _to_ sigrok :-/

[@uint16_t]

You're amazing, thanks!

[@download333]

I've just been using one of the $4 chinese versions. It don't think it supports analog signals, but it works great for digital protocol analysis

[@Pownyan]

i have one of those to... might have been DOA, but it gives me completely random output.

[@RuiRex]

Great work! Thanks!

[@sburlappp]

A commenter on Hackaday pointed out that someone else is already working on something very similar, you should definitely get together: github.com/schnommus/libsigrok-cypress-fx3-test

[@CNLohr]

I GOOGLED FOR THIS STUFF, YO. HOW DID I MISS THIS?

[@CNLohr]

Ok, after further investigation, seems they went a different direction, i.e. bulk and some other stuff. Also, def more of a focus directly on sigrok get-it-to-work while I'm more interested in a general solution?

[@cpuchip]

Analyzer2go has this board as a supported board, have you seen their stuff?

[@cpuchip]

Also, awesome work on your project. I didnt realize that board was so cheap! I'm so buying one now.

[@CNLohr]

I have not seen that.

[@leonardocafferata6697]

Wow. I got that same board thinking about doing exactly that. Ill try to test your build asap. So it doesnt need eclipse anymore?

[@CNLohr]

Well, it never _needed_ eclipse, but I was using that to build the firmware at the moment. I intend to use Make in Linux.

[@leonardocafferata6697]

CNLohr sorry, that was what I meant. Maybe you got around making a makefile and building/testing it on linux.

[@CNLohr]

Why would I want to get "around" that?

[@leonardocafferata6697]

CNLohr haha. Yeah I just read what I wrote. I meant that maybe you already wrote the makefile and test it. Im a little distracted right now, sorry about the confusion. Ill download your repo and try testing it at home. Thanks for sharing your work. Are you gonna keep posting video updates of this, as with the previous projects?

[@CNLohr]

No makefile yet, but soon.

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

D00d! I think I love this chip.

[@leon11235]

The chip looks very promising. How do you think, is it possible to make IDE device emulator with it?

[@CNLohr]

I don't understand what you mean "IDE device emulator" are you referring to hard drives?

[@leon11235]

Yes, hard drive or CD-ROM. Basically it needs to be able to grab 16 bits of data and 4-5 more signals fast enough(I don't remember exactly how many), sending data from disk to controller shouldn't be a problem at all. UDMA/33 mode would be good enough for such device.

[@Regular6782]

Fantastic work mate, as always!

[@NicuIrimia]

put an ESP on it

[@browaruspierogus2182]

What exactly is the advantage of this board? Maybe it is easier to buy cheap FPGA dev kit board like RPi0 or better Intel? (wonder if AMD will have)

[@CNLohr]

It's because of the insane bandwidth you can get from it synchronously. You can also get the data into a computer effectively. Keep in mind it is transfering in these tests to buffers in my PC at almost 2gigabits/sec.

[@browaruspierogus2182]

Yes but PC cant do it by itself? Some people use Microsoft Message Analyzer www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=44226 Here some cheaper Chinese analyzer www.aliexpress.com/item/New-USB-Logic-SCM-24MHz-8-Channel-Logic-Analyzer-Debugger-for-ARM-FPGA-High-Quality/32802074523.html

[@browaruspierogus2182]

I wonder if there is low price analyzer for usb 3.1 (10g/s). FX3 is 3.0.

[@damny0utoobe]

@@browaruspierogus2182 one thing you don't understand is how to interface an FPGA to a PC. A common method is to use PCIE or if you want USB, you use something like cypress FX3 (thing in the video) or an FTDI

[@GeorgeTsiros]

good work!!

[@rmtdev]

Thanks man !

[@fuzzy1dk]

I see several projects with FX3 sdk for linux on github, they don't work?

[@CNLohr]

They do! But you can't write new firmware for it, changing the GPIF behavior in Linux.

[@CNLohr]

I.e. once the GPIF information is "compiled" it is portable and can be used anywhere.

[@fuzzy1dk]

like this? github.com/nickdademo/cypress-fx3-sdk-linux/tree/master/firmware/basic_examples/cyfxgpiftousb

[@CNLohr]

Specifically cyfxgpif2config.h ... needed to be done with the GPIF designer. But wow, I wish I noticed that before I started down my path... Though I did spend most of my time rewriting the PC-side software.