D&D 2024 Player's Handbook: Not Made for Casual Players

[@BobWorldBuilder]

💥 Czepeku: www.patreon.com/czepeku

[@DarkVeghetta]

These are great. Me and a friend used to run 1-player campaigns (we were each other's DM) and I saw a few of these pop up when he was DM-ing. Always fantastic quality, a ton of setting choices, and most maps come in different versions - day, night, creepy, broken-down, and many other options. That last part is crucial if you run long campaigns and keep track of day/night. It also means you can have very different encounters in the same place happen during different times, maybe even add a broken-down version of a map during a full moon that's tied to some supernatural mystery. The different versions of the same map really expand your choices as a DM, without having to spend significant amounts of time editing yourself. Would recommend. 👍

[@Dayandcounting]

The game everyone wants to play here is AD&D home brew from the day, because that was open 5e without the nonsense. Yes I did say without the nonsense because your DM's home brew rule fixed that most of time. That's also why I feel that D&D would better serve players if it was fully open, the community could do a better job IMO. I might feel differently if they focused on making BG3 worthy virtual Desktop/tools, that a big corp could do well.

[@mightythunderfoot]

Perhaps a hot take, but I've always wondered why so many people think rules-lite systems are better for beginners than crunchy systems. Beginners often have no idea what to do with their creativity. "This ability does THIS. And only THIS." Is often more helpful for a beginner than "what do you want it to do? Explain it to me and maybe I'll allow it." Beginners thrive on mechanics, then they graduate to creative thinking and role-playing. Dumping a 400 page book on a beginner is bad, don't get me wrong. I'm just suggesting that binary mechanics are way better for beginners than open-ended rules.

[@henrymalinowski5125]

This has been my experience too. Ive had players struggle to figure out what they do when I’ve run OSR system, but those same players take faster turns in 5e. 🤷‍♂️

[@flavorgod]

That's a problem of mindset.

[@theendicott2838]

That is actually a really helpful insight. I was going to try Index Card RPG with my newbie players, but I think I will stick with 5e for now. I have already modified some stuff to make it, imo, better like sorcerers having a pool of spell points instead of spell slots, and it includes their sorcery points as well.

[@roam_free]

@@theendicott2838 Give Shadowdark a go. Very easy to teach new players.

[@roam_free]

@@flavorgod Indeed.

[@obiwankenobi9439]

Bob the Ranger. Somebody send a rescue party this guy's been in the woods for at least 4 episodes. He must be running low on rations. And the 2024 Ranger can't find a fish in a barrel...

[@Itomon]

With the right feat, you can Search as a Bonus Action :v

[@chicken_person]

Hey, you take that back! You could just choose to take Survival as one of your abilities you're proficient in, and go foraging! What's that about the Scout rogue? They get Expertise in both Survival and Nature just for choosing the subclass? Shhhhhhhh. I need to convince them to play Hunter's Mark, the class. I may be a tad salty about the ranger.

[@jimlemaux4308]

I am getting concerned. Even the airplanes have stopped looking for him, based on the lack of background noise in this video...

[@dadnar7615]

He probably has plenty of hard tack left over from that other episode.

[@ShaunHall-i7e]

He has an iron constitution!

[@chriswolfe403]

The psychology of knowing you CAN do a lot using the book is the selling point, regardless of what you end up using. My car CAN go 130mph, but I haven't driven it over 80.

[@Threnody42]

I think this is the best, clearest summation of the 5.24 PHB I have seen so far. Not sensationalized, not going deep into the details of the changes, just a clear explanation of what the book is and who should consider buying it. Dope. ❤

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thanks very much! That's exactly what I was going for :)

[@nojusticenetwork9309]

I disagree. This is a fairly biased review on a product that is only helpful to those who share a similar mindset as him. To someone completely new to the game jumping in, there is no real difference between the 2014 and 2024 versions of the game in terms of how complex it is, it will all be new to them. Looking at new mechanics that you have no baseline comparison for is equally as difficult to understand. So if for those who are hopping into 5e for the first time, the new PHB is probably a better purchase as it has many quality of life changes to the rules, so less growing pains. For people already in the hobby, having a deep dive is better so that they know if they wish to adopt the updated rules or not.

[@Threnody42]

@@nojusticenetwork9309 I don't disagree that there is definite merit to the new PHB for new players, but as Bob mentioned, there will almost certainly be a new starter set with the new ruleset. These have been great for onboarding new players and easing them into the world without requiring a massive front-end investment. And there absolutely is room in the space for those in-depth reviews for folks who want the granular information of what mechanical changes are in the book. I have really enjoyed Treantmonk's coverage for example. My point is that this review puts the product in a perspective that I haven't seen many people use. The fact that the new rules will be in CC once the new core books are all released is something folks should have in mind as they decide about whether to purchase this book.

[@TheBlink182ify]

​@@nojusticenetwork9309nah lil bro, thats pf2e... And about a crunch system, watch stormlight kill dnd, dc20, daggerheart... Etc, brandon rn has more then all the other companies, if ppl like that media they'll make the rpg work for then

[@carolxs]

I don't think it's a good summary, it's more like an opinion piece. A good, well founded opinion piece, but not a review or a summary.

[@jackfranciswest3778]

no one: Bob: 📖🧍🏻🌲

[@BobWorldBuilder]

accurate!

[@NateFinch]

​@@BobWorldBuilderI love that you film in the woods most of the time. It's refreshing. And I love the pauses for random planes and other distractions 😊

[@umarthdc]

📖🧍‍♂️🌲✈️🚂

[@dane3038]

Other Creators are stressing over their backdrop and BWB is all, "Hey God, I'm going to use the backdrop you made". And God is all, "It's Open Source" Bro".

[@alicepbg2042]

gotta show those trees what happened to their brethren so they stay in line!

[@ooccttoo]

This is a really great point on how D&D's character creation has become a game of its own 😅 I used to LOVE making characters, but nowadays I prefer to actually play campaigns.

[@alexabel8010]

Yeah, lol! The creative exercise of making characters really were fun... Until you realise you'll never play them, lol. I'd rather spend my time playing the game.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thanks! Yeah I went through the same thing and still like making characters, but at least right now, I don't want to do this much reading to make one :P

[@moriyasanae8130]

theory crafting is kinda just preparation for the actually game tho... imo

[@emmasilver2332]

I have created dozens of characters, most that will never see the light of day at the game table. But I will use them in my creative writing projects fairly frequently.

[@Alan-ms3kp]

Over time, the value in D&D and most RPGs of high crunch is in the one-shot game night with pre-generated characters. The main thing about rules options is that they can also be categorized as rules bloat. Campaigns can either be supported by rules or oppressed by them and given that the most reliable players are usually also the ones that are really into the rules; I've had a harder and harder time maintaining a campaign the more complicated the games get.

[@Birdman_LIVE]

Good stuff as always. As a player who is currently finishing a campaign from level 3-20 (yes we are playing at 20) I want this book. I play w/ physical die, books in hand and plan to continue our mostly weekly in-person game long into future. I am fortunate .

[@luffysh]

Hey Bob. I follow you since you started on KZbin. Watching this video make me realised how much you have evolve and how good your journey has become as a content creator. You are a delight to watch and listen to. Thank you so much for your inputs. 🥰

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thank you! :)

[@AvonofTalamh]

I think the hackability of simpler systems is the biggest draw for me. Sure, we can play heroic fantasy - or, and hear me out, we can play a Hollow Knight hack of Mausritter where you get to be little bugs.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Haha same for me! Part of the reason I love RPGs is because they fit so well with my friend group's love of making our own rules for whatever we play. I like having well-designed options to think about, but I don't need quite as many as in the new PHB. At least at this time.

[@lux_fero]

Never played Hollow Knight, but playing as little bugs is a great idea for a compain i am going to do. Thanks!

[@BrunoFernandes-ty7mf]

Funny thing is that, for me, it is the opposite. Games with a pretty robust set of rules makes it easy for me to hack it: you already have everything you need there, just need to rename it, add, twist it. But maybe this comes easy to my particular situation because i mainly DM or create homebrew to a game with robust rules - similar to PF2e perhaps - but that has a vision of "medieval fantasy" with too many diverse genre inspirations, like anime and lovecraftian horror. So it is a game where is viable to create both a full medieval game of sword and magic, or a campaign fighting against an empire who uses basically giant robots as parte of their military force. Or even go explore the areas infested with the eldritch horrors that is invading the world and that gives the game its name and the setting its central plot. So it is not that difficult to jump from one genre to the other within the same set of rules. While in simpler games, i have to create way more things to make it work. On the other side, sure, it is probably possible to hack it with only some little additions, depending on how simple the game is to begin with. But for example, within a simpler game without crafting mechanics or more complex social rules other than a Charisma stat, to hack it to a Monster World thing, or an investigation focus, the DM would need to create a full set of new rules for that type of genre, no matter how simple that new set of rules would be. And 5e is a particular case for me. Because it tries to be simple (things like advantage to streamline the older and common bonuses and more bonuses rules), but at the same time has a overly complex magic system, and many little things that i don't see why it didn't get streamlined yet (like, the ranges for weapons comes in, i think, ten or more possible values). So it is a game that tries to simplifies things so much, and other things so little, that for me ends up missing the point. And the game becomes kinda of difficult to mess with.

[@thodan467]

heroic fantasy is not limited to 5e , DnD

[@voidbar27]

The hollow knight ttrpg is good, more people should play it.

[@michellee1190]

I had a friend who called the process of creating/leveling up a character and figuring out equipment "Lonely Fun" and... The truth of that continues to crush me to this day.

[@mechanussunrise]

plus it can be quite time consuming. After playing other games I now find it kind of a drag

[@mechanussunrise]

@kgeo2686 it can be fast, but it can also take a long time depending on the player. Some players want to plan levels 1-20 before playing their character. They want to plan every feat, multiclass, class option, etc. That takes a long time. It is possible to take the Quick Build option to make it faster. I've run 5e for 7 years and have never seen someone choose that.

[@SteveLaw-UK]

Alone =/= lonely.

[@keithpalmer4547]

leveling up characters was always great fun for me. Going to different books selecting a great built is fun.

[@mechanussunrise]

@keithpalmer4547 It's great if a player enjoys it, but sometimes, it distracts some players from the game itself. I was in a game in a store w seven players and only two of us paid attention to the DM in between battles. Even during battles some players tuned out between their turns. I looked at their phone screens and they were creating hypothetical characters instead of playing the game right in front of them

[@DavidCartoon]

Thanks for your thoughts, Bob. Been playing the Starter and Essential boxes with my family for the last year without a “real” PHB since I realized the new one was coming. Most everything I see tells me we don’t really need it, but I’ve been looking forward to it so much that I’m still a bit stuck on what to do, even after your excellent advice…

[@BobWorldBuilder]

You're welcome! Yeah if you've thoroughly played out the starter sets, and you would rather see the official PC options before homebrewing your own, and you don't mind spending the money on it, then it makes sense to pick it up! If you'd rather see some of the material before spending the money, I'd say wait until the free SRD version, but you can also get a lot of cool info about the options discussed in videos already

[@NemoOhd20]

You don't NEED the Essentials Box either, though it is a good value. The PDF for the Essentials Kit rules is still free! It is really pretty good D&D without all that cancerous bloat.

[@jocke6703]

So refreshing hearing something other than how great and awesome the new phb rules are. Thanks Bob!

[@NateFinch]

There are entire channels that mostly just "make builds". I actually think it's an important part of an RPG offering. We only have so much time to play, but a book we can engage with on our own for hours and hours just adds to the value of what we've purchased. This is true of other games as well, like tabletop wargames. You build armies and talk about tactics way more than you actually play.

[@mandisaw]

Many folks say they don't ever actually play - in-person or online - so theorycrafters are likely a significant chunk of the PHB-buying market. WotC doesn't seem the type to skip doing their market research.

[@NateFinch]

@@mandisaw 100%. When I was a teenager I had no one to play with but I would make characters and roll up random treasure etc.

[@mandisaw]

@@NateFinch Even when I was DM'ing, I'd still have a stack of chars specced out to either understand my players better, or to get ideas for NPCs.

[@Naren25]

It's important that at least one RPG offers that, for people who really enjoy it. I would like to also suggest the world of Solo RPGs for people with difficult schedules who want to adventure rather than endlessly build characters

[@jasonGamesMaster]

Most games on the market are no where near as convoluted as D&D. I can make a World of Darkness character in 15 mins. I can make a RuneQuest character in 20 (i don't use the family history system). Call of Cthuthu is even faster. The last 5e D&D character I made took HOURS and we were at first level. I can make a Hero System character in 45 mins or less without using a calculator. And the real problem is 50% or more of the "options" are just filler, as are most of the abilities you get through level up. I don't want them, I don't need them, and thus, I don't play or run 5e D&D any more and haven't for years

[@henrymalinowski5125]

I don’t think this is a hot take: but that description ‘30 pages of game’ and hundreds of pages of player options is the last 3 DnD editions and Pathfinder, not just 5e24.

[@Heritage367]

Fair

[@SortKaffe]

At least, 5e24 condensed the rules glossary quite a bit and ordered it alphabetically

[@Dinofaustivoro]

Yeah, it started with 3e. Before that I'd blame the "roll under" mechanic, the first "core mechanic" for D&D

[@mandisaw]

​@@Dinofaustivoro Feel like 3e PHB page-bloat originally was a reaction to the 2e "lots of books" approach, where ppl wanted a decent chunk of content in a single book you could point newcomers to. 4e split the PHB, so Pathfinder reacted to *that* with an even larger single book. And then 5e followed-suit with these doorstoppers. I get that folks aren't as keen to read, and don't want to have to buy too many supplements. But I think there's got to be a shift back towards smaller books that you can mix-match to meet your interests.

[@MatthewDragonHammer]

@@henrymalinowski5125 absolutely, yes

[@SodaPopBarbecue]

A big problem with "Just play more and more niche games" is finding more and more niche game players that want to play anything else than 5e, ESPECIALLY offline. I, for example, live in a rural area where the local FLGS is a lot of gas dollars away, which I have to budget. I'm also HELLA awkward with randos online in voice chat when I have zero read on their face, & find that people who play more and more niche games are VERY elitist in more than just that way. I guess I'm fricked.

[@NemoOhd20]

The bookstores here are almost always playing either Pathfinder for the Crunch Lovers or DCC. I remember the last shop I went to, on free RPG day, had to convince the the newish DM that it was ok to play 7 players. DCC wouldn't bog down, and it didn't.

[@NemoOhd20]

Also, 5e Wizbros is niche. And Superhero Avenger Wannabes with a Sword isn't my niche. Avengers might even be a slight to the power of the 5e characters. They'd have little trouble with Avengers badguys.

[@Boonedale]

Discord is your friend. WoTC has one as I would assume most other gaming groups do.

[@NemoOhd20]

@@Boonedale WOTC isnt my friend and not a friend to most gamers.

[@shannonhall8870]

​​@@NemoOhd20 Sir this is a Wendy's. Wizards of the Coast has the largest market share that's not niche.

[@DMinatrix]

Nice breakdown of what’s actually in the book; if I play in person I might consider getting one for the table, but definitely not a requirement for each and every player at the table. Thanks for the video!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

You're welcome!

[@jessezeck9818]

These comments feel like propaganda. It's wierd.

[@TheConfessor]

This is the best review of the 2024 PHB I've seen. Because it's real talk. Bob is sincere and talks like a guy who just loves gaming. Because that's what I believe he is. None of these passaging combing endless reviews, just "This is what I think." And I really appreciate it.

[@StavrosMueller93]

What I love about your videos: You are very fair in your assessments! I personally dislike the 2024 PHB - but mostly for "meta" reasons (the direction 5E is going, WotC/Hasbro as a company etc.), so I was inclined to just hate on it. But you showed that there ARE things to enjoy and especially people who would like the book. And you stated the negatives and offered some alternative options. Very helpful video, not overly long or "rambly" either; I loved it. 👌

[@davidholman6709]

THANK YOU for pointing out that character building is a totally different game. One that you do solo, separately from the actual game

[@elishmuel1976]

This is what I like: honest opinions from GM professionals. Subbed.

[@roam_free]

Awesome to see you using your platform to rep independent creators. Good on ya!

[@manicpixiedreambuoy]

Heck yes!

[@drey1082]

I agree with everything Bob explains here. The only thing I'll say in defense of the book is that IMO the "Playing the game" section at the front is the best written rules summary. I think it's the best written description of how the game plays and gives a solid breakdown of what D&D is, using fun examples. If you're a casual player, who is just looking to get into the hobby, I think the playing the game section in this PHB is the best one of those, and it was smart to put it as the first thing in the book. That being said, there's no way someone should recommend any version of the players handbook to a casual player. This book (and all core rulebooks) are definitely for the "all in" players, but I think that's always been the case with all D&D core rulebooks. I'm sure even WOTC understands this and would say that this book is not for casuals and the starter set is the product made for them.

[@Boonedale]

I would add that all players, including the DM *should* have all 3 books. Part of being a DM/GM is *knowing all the rules* (or, at least having them at hand).

[@matthewmcguigan4293]

"Vaguely medieval themed super hero." Bob... You've nailed it. That is the genre! 🎉

[@michaelcartmell7428]

When helping a beginner make their first character, my starting question is "Who's your favorite superhero?" If nothing else, it gets them the right mindset.

[@matthewmcguigan4293]

@@michaelcartmell7428 absolutely. Jump start the role playing instead of working from scratch.

[@thodan467]

med what, renfair maybe but medival not really

[@SergioLeRoux]

I just realized, the old edition was divided into several books by level. You could play the first 3 levels using Basic. You got Expert to play the next 11 levels. Then 2 more books added 11 levels each... And most people never had to buy them. So you did use all the levels you purchased, in theory.

[@NemoOhd20]

Essentials Kit gives you level 1-6. Most D&D campaigns never go that high. People could probably download this for free and never need anything else.

[@johnharrison2086]

BECMI is the very best version of D&D

[@NemoOhd20]

@@johnharrison2086 I love my old Basic books. My first was Holmes, but they are all cool. However, I have no use for thaco or to hit charts and a mishmash of rule mechanisms, just the thief has about 6 mechanics, d6, 2d6, d20, d100, roll high sometimes, roll low others. There is a reason that is all left in the dust of history.

[@NemoOhd20]

@@johnharrison2086 But I agree the BE(CMI) is the best gen 1 D&D. Far less broken bits than AD&D.

[@screenmonkey]

B/X, BECMI and Rulescyclopedia was more of a alternate line from AD&D that ran concurrently. The original edition, split the classes a bit in the old White/brown box D&D.

[@thewelshdm]

The argument that a wealth of player options makes this book "unnecessary for most people" is certainly an interesting take. What are your views on Pathfinders character options?

[@Hedron-Design]

My favorite quote about D&D Gary Gygax - 'The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.'

[@ThreeFortyThree]

It’s why I recommend anyone who wants to become a better GM, run a campaign in something like Cypher System. It pushes GM’s to come up with reasonable rulings and not feel like they need a premade rule for every possible situation.

[@Subject_Keter]

​@@ThreeFortyThree I say just repeat every where you go. "Who is stopping you from changing it?" They havent arrested the Homebrews so just c h a n g e stuff you dont like. 😂

[@CountDVB]

@@Subject_Keter The fact that most people are too mentally tired to think about this stuff because of the grind of modern living.

[@tnatstrat7495]

@@Subject_Keter The problem is a lot of times the stuff "people don't like" are misunderstandings of the rules in the first place. People will get their rules from memes and youtube videos then homebrew because they "don't like the rule".

[@ivaniii9707]

And he is wrong about it. If you remove the rules then there is no game left. You are just playing pretend with people which is always the worst part of the experience. The best part is problem solving combat encounters. The story is a vessel to get you to the next dungeon or piece of combat.

[@CooperAATE]

"They sent me this book for free! ...it has too many rules, I'm gonna play Shadowdark." lol

[@RossoCarne]

Haters gonna hate while hating still pays

[@lokterzin]

based

[@NemoOhd20]

And they threatened to destroy my channel if I actually reviewed it and showed the interior of the book.

[@supersam5802]

Looking forward to the playing with the new rules, looks good and crunchy, lots of character building potential, now I just need to find a group who’s cool with skipping to the fun half at level 10

[@razorboy251]

Great video Bob and you are right on the money - wait a couple of months and get the really important part of the book (the rules) for free! Also great alternative recommendations to which I would also add Knave second edition (for those who find Cairn too barebones) and Index Card RPG (get 5 games in one amazing book!).

[@SlyFlourish]

I love you Bob! I don’t think the 5.1 or 5.2 SRD stand in for the PHB, though. It’s not intended at all to describe how the game is played. There is a free D&D Basic PDF, not to be confused with the SRD, that does walk players through how to play D&D. I also expect WOTC to offer free resources on D&D Beyond for new players to build characters. For those interested in playing D&D 2024, I think the Player’s Handbook is worth the $50 for this book. It’s a good deal. Love Shadowdark!!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thanks Mike! The SRD does start with character options, but then it has about 25 pages of How To Play. Basically the same amount of rules as the intro chapter of the new PHB. It has plenty of spells, WAY more magic items than the PHB, and way more monsters than the PHB. I think all it's really missing is a selection of feats and backgrounds, which are in the free Basic Rules like you said. So even if it's not intended as a stand in, it can certainly function as a D&D rulebook for casual players or beginners who don't want to drop $50 on a new hobby, especially when using the free websites I mentioned to navigate it more easily than the PDF.

[@mopple2780]

Literally browsing Cze Peku while I watch this to find a possible map for an encounter for my summer camp game later today.

[@cosmiccowboy9358]

Just wanted to say I absolutely love your content you do such a great job

[@BobWorldBuilder]

That makes my day! Thank you very much for commenting :)

[@JesseSteinfort]

Informative. Enjoyable. Thanks for this video.

[@GothicPrincessAlice]

Excellent review! I might be crazy though because I feel like there aren't ENOUGH options 😆

[@BobWorldBuilder]

You're not crazy! You are the target audience. Enjoy it :D

[@Dinofaustivoro]

If you want *all the options* maybe try playing an edition with no options, so you have a taste of the old-school real freedom

[@GothicPrincessAlice]

@Dinofaustivoro I tend to prefer crunchier systems as they give me a better foundation to be creative with and express myself via the characters I create, as it may seem restrictive but I find that actually can be a boon to creativity. Im not against what you describe I just do not think it is my cup of tea, but I do wanna give OSR style games and such a try because I love exploring new systems and trying different ways to ttrpg :D

[@Frostrazor]

@@GothicPrincessAlice thats an interesting perspective. Most would reasonably argue the confining and constraining to a set number of parameters is the opposite of creative agency. e.g. "Nope you cant try that - you don't have that feat" Games like OSR and Dungeon World allow the player(s) to create from scratch among an infinite amount of possibilities what they feel is something can do or try and even what their character creation (race, background etc) is like.

[@maromania7]

Just be sure to get the $15 add on called "character sheets." Because they somehow aren't included in this book, they're sold separately for $15. Though I assume you have a pdf already.

[@darthvegan]

Thanks for all you do, Bob!

[@drivers1071]

Great video as usual, Bob!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thank you!

[@dataraxia3520]

What you're supposed to use the player's handbook for: Building characters, learning rules, reading through spell lists What I actually use it for: convincing my friends who have never played a TTRPG to give it try by showing them all the cool pictures and fancy descriptions of races and everything else Honestly, that's the only reason I care for a hardcover of ANY TTRPG. As forever DM I transitioned to digital materials a long time ago. Books are best for lending to beginner/intermediate players Great video! Your breakdown was very informative

[@apjapki]

Very true

[@Subject_Keter]

I find books easier since you are reading it and it easier to reference then a online monsterity where it just like "boo where am i?"

[@screenmonkey]

Lets not forget, that flopping down on the ol couch or recliner and flipping through a new book, or old book feeling the paper as you turn the page.

[@gds-productions]

Best video I've seen on the topic so far.

[@MurfBX]

I liked your video! Thanks! It's the closest I ever plan on getting to the new game.

[@edmorris4103]

I'm probably one of the rare people who actually PREFERS playing and running games at high level. I don't think I've ever started a campaign below 3rd level, and I usually run my players up to 10-11th level quickly, so we can get to the really juicy monsters and plots.

[@RPG_Bliss]

Def rare but I’m happy for you and your players. I’ve only been in one high level game and it was epic. Tomb of Annihilation and we got to about level 15

[@KentaQiric]

But that still proves the point, even your "high level" play is only half the max level.

[@edmorris4103]

@@KentaQiric Perhaps I should have been more clear. I run them up to 10th or 11th quickly, then we play all the way to 20th as normal.

[@emmakane6848]

All my DMs have started us around 3rd level and then staying at 4th and 5th for years. So I’m planning a campaign around the idea of starting at 5th and actually using major class features/3rd level spells at trying to get an all the way to 15th. Any tips for mid to high level play?

[@RPG_Bliss]

@@emmakane6848 biggest tip is keep the monster HP hidden. When people get high level and good initiative they can nuke the big boss in one or two rounds, so sometimes you gotta double the Hp on the fly to give them a challenge. You can also use reinforcement waves of baddies! Also use legendary actions, they make the players feel like they might lose and keeps them sweating. Have fun!

[@KarlRoyale]

For me the selling point of this book is how it is laid out in order, with a working INDEX. The previous version of this book was like searching through a pile of post it notes to find the one paragraph you need. It didn't even use alphabetical order!.

[@alexabel8010]

I've long moved on from D&D. I'm super interested in systems like Cairn, Shadowdark, Knave, etc. HOWEVER... The frameworks are all from D&D. I used all the artistic inspiration from D&D when I GM my games now. I actually don't think anything comes close to the thematic vision of OS D&D. The types of magic, the styles of monsters, the "medieval theme" etc. In fact, pretty much every product essentially imitates these things. (And often does them better to be fair.) I hate to be _that_ guy, but right now, my players are getting their "Vaguely Medieval Superhero" kicks from my DC20 game. (It's just so much dang fun.) But I've graduated as a DM to include elements from systems that I've read and liked: Shadowdark, Cairn, Knave, and even Blades in the Dark. Really, what's important to me is setting up the attitude of the table. *"This will be a character-focused narrative game."* Prep takes all of 30 minutes and we're already 5/6 weeks (can't remember) into an evolving game. It's awesome! I find it really helpful to decide what kind of game you want to have and then choosing a system that suits it best.

[@RPG_Bliss]

Glad to hear you are enjoying DC20. I did a one shot of it and it was great. Looking forward to the book release.

[@danielcarrasco5251]

Bob, I respect this review a great deal and think you raise some fantastic points.

[@shazamvondoom325]

My Shadowdark book comes in today!

[@porkaism]

Nice overview. Thank you.

[@nerdaccount]

We started a campaign at 15th level and made it to 20th and I had a blast! I hope people can't get a chance to do this... it's such high fantasy. Our Dm was such a boss. OK it was a little distorted as I think we fought 4 white adult dragons in an ice cave no Problem. But it was fun! Some people brought wacky multiclass monstrosities, me, I lived my best high-level wizard life!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Sounds fun!

[@JayPlateFaceVideos]

That sounds fun. I'll have to try it

[@mandisaw]

3.5 and 4e had Epic level play as a distinct phase from heroic fantasy, where you could basically play out the sorts of stories where gods are characters (David Eddings and much of Norse mythology comes to mind 😍). There's definitely a place for that in the fantasy canon, it doesn't all have to be reality-adjacent.

[@abelsampaio389]

Yes! High level dnd is harder to master but it's so fun when you do. About to finish a 6 year long campaign at 20th level this month

[@helixxharpell]

Thanks Bob. I really hope the community likes our offering of Khor The World of Many Portals next year. Its for new players who want more detail in their character creation and a world in which much of has already been detailed for DMs and SO MANY opportunities for role-playing & storytelling. We sincerely hope it becomes a growing, beloved world. Thanks again Bob for being there!

[@manicpixiedreambuoy]

I'm so glad I stopped exclusively playing 5e and started playing other games! Thanks for using your platform to talk about cooler, cheaper, better designed, and more lovingly made games by smaller creators outside the 5e D&D monolith ❤

[@Frostrazor]

Insert Pathfinder to your opening statement and this would apply to me full throttle. Having played both PF editions and all editions of D&D (except 4th), I can say I was ready to hang up my dice having been burnt out by rules bloat. Then to be introduced to Blades in the Dark about 6 years ago and have played so many better less rules games since; BitD, Dungeon World, The One Ring, Alien RPG, and even Smallville RPG which has been a blast.

[@tosuga00000]

i couldn't agree with your assessment of Shadowdark more, Bob. my table has been absolutely energized by it, and we've had a ridiculous amount of fun.

[@NemoOhd20]

I've never really felt that the major change of Shadow dark was torches. That is a game mechanic I can take or leave, but I realize the marketers needed a hook. To me the really critical importance of Shadowdark is roll to cast and zoned combat instead of counting boxes. I realize these mechanics aren't new, but unfortunately Index Card RPG did not sell that well. (You should buy it however, even if you only use the fantastic GM advise section.)

[@codenameinu]

I usually skip the ads but I love those friggin maps. They are actually really great !

[@vidgrip8622]

Bleh. Thanks for the info. I'm glad the min/maxers have a new game to play, but D&D 2024 is not for me. I prefer more randomized character creation and the challenge of playing what I rolled.

[@Boonedale]

Try Warhammer Fantasy's RPG. Everything is randomly decided by a die roll.

[@tehphoebus]

Really loving the outdoor filming. Excellent video, excellent presentation! Writing and editing on point also.

[@onlyplaywizards]

Yeah, spot on. I'm having too much fun with DCC and just one book.

[@onlyplaywizards]

@@manicpixiedreambuoy Back in 2009, when I began running the Dragon Age RPG and having a total blast, while also running a pub game of D&D 4e I came to this analogy: I am a director, D&D is the summer blockbuster while Dragon Age RPG was my art house passion project. Analogy still holds.

[@SortKaffe]

@manicpixiedreambuoy I love trying out OSR games, but I always go back to 5e for longer campaigns, since the character options really speak to fleshing out and developing a PC over time. It's a matter of preference, not one style being strictly superior to the other.

[@RPG_Bliss]

Are you using any of DCC’s dungeon modules or making your own? I’m thinking about getting the Tome vol 1 that has like their first 8 dungeons in one book. I’m just getting into DCC and ran a funnel that was epic. Just wondering how to continue the fun.

[@onlyplaywizards]

@@RPG_Bliss I'm not running, but we played two different funnels, then leveraged those characters into some adventures with the aim to do Dark Tower and Crypt of the Devil Lich later on.

[@josephpilkus1127]

Absolutely love your stuff, Bob! I've watched a number of your videos, and I love the fact that you film these outside with great frequency. Thanks to Stephen Glicker and Professor DM for mentioning you quite often.

[@pd1426]

You're making a great case of why BECMI was the best system. Pick the level gameplay your group wants to play, and stick to that level of gameplay.

[@TonyCrenshawsLatte]

I absolutely loved the low-key anger and sarcasm that were laid on thick throughout the video. Kudos to you, sir! Yay for Cairn!! Yay for Shadowdark!!!!

[@koboldsage9112]

More options than we will play is not the same as having the specific combination we might want to use, and we wont know which options we want if we cannot access all of them. A flexible GM willing to create new mechanics to make an idea work allows for less books to be involved, but homebrew is often sneered at by the community, rightly at times, for how often god-like non-heros come out of it. Meanwhile, when it becomes so clear that a casually built character can be horrifically mis-built by level five, planning your progression in advance becomes less optional and more mandatory.

[@thrivingselfcarerenee]

As someone who is literally brand new to TTRPG'S, Thank you!! Looking at the D&D books has had me SO intimidated. Now knowing that the rules for basic play are about 50 pages of that makes possibly playing seem SO much less intimidating. Thank you for the recommendation about the boxed sets too, rather than the full rule books. Plus knowing the rule books will eventually be available for free is so helpful. As a complete newbie, this video was so helpful to me.

[@screenmonkey]

Pick up Dragonbane from Free League, its 1 box for 60 bucks, contains 2 books (1 rule book with everything and the other a full Campaign with adventures), dice, tokens, cards, a map, battle map, and character sheets and pregens. For 60 bucks

[@sierrabrew7759]

As a wilderness ranger digging the outside backdrop!

[@BunnyNiyori]

Kudos Bob, YOU made a great video discussing the new edition. That said, I don't like the 2014, so I'm unlikely going to like the 2024 edition. But, I like you doing the videos outside. Most KZbinrs can be painfully boring to endure. You are easy to watch.

[@harley_o_thor]

really like the alt covers for this version, first physical versions i ever ger personally

[@SortKaffe]

Supporting you friendly local game store to get the alternative cover is just an added bonus. Looking so much forward to my pre-order being delivered!

[@Noob_DnD_Dad]

Hey thanks Bob!

[@Quandry1]

The Game becomes unwieldy to a large degree at higher levels because people don't play them. Groups fall apart and other things tend to happen before groups get into those levels so they are not nearly as familiar with them as they think they are which makes them far more unwieldy than the low levels they do play with fresher groups and without the time commitment it takes to get to higher levels. When we play those higher levels more, that unwieldy-ness goes away to a decent degree. But it's often a 2 to 3 year investment to get to playing those levels. there are just too many groups that don't stick it together that long or longer to really play them. This is why people mostly play tier 1 and 2 and a bit into tier 3.

[@Subject_Keter]

If you make anything take as long as a normal DnD party getting to lvl 12, most people would be done and out of it. With that much effort, you could make like a squad of a 40K Army you like.

[@nrp_g]

Nice perspective, Bob! I think you've hit the nail on the head for new or adventurous players.

[@rubesqubes1997]

I heavily disagree with the idea that the massive amounts of options is only for experienced players. New players don't need to read all the rules to make a decision, they need to read the titles and go "thats cool!" I think the amount of options in the new book will lead to a wider range of types of characters. In the last book, all paladins, warlocks, and sorcerers ended up looking the same. I doubt that will be as common as a problem in the new book.

[@RunKnitCoffee]

Thank you, this is a really honest, insightful, realistic to actually playing the game review. As a DM and player I really appreciate it!

[@nerscyllam4735]

The second game of theorycrafting being where almost all of the focus on the book has been in the youtube creator community right now has honestly been kind of exhausting, with a constant back and forth of metagame analysis and breaking down specific options, and I'm really glad to get a video like this going over whether the book's rules are different enough to need any of the content for play right now and whether it really matters when you're sitting down at the table to play with your friends and tell a collective story.

[@Gwyndon]

Bob in the woods let's go! Can't wait for my copy of Delve for Shadowdark

[@TookyG]

Bob's villain arc of turning against the 5e super hero nonsense is almost complete. Excellent. Excellent.

[@Mantus86]

Its refreshing to hear someone express this view -for me who enjoys playing over planning..

[@sumdude4281]

5.5 ain't my jam but I will not yuck others yum. I would suggest however, DCC and Shadow Dark. Do yourself a favor. My flgs opened up tables to DCC and tables are overflowing.

[@davidjennings2179]

For those who don't know: FLGS= Friendly Local Game Store

[@NemoOhd20]

So much great fun and so fast to roll a new character. Weird rolls and wacky tables means you never know what to expect. Heck everything from Goodman is high quality.

[@israelmorales4249]

Great video, gret recomendations! THX

[@assistantref5084]

D&D players love rules. I think it probably makes sense for WOTC to go all-in on the bajillion different character options, thousands of spells, trillions of magic items route because it is where their competitive strength is. Players who want to roleplay more and rulesplay less have always tended to go off the D&D reservation towards systems that give them greater freedom; Shadowdark is just the latest in a long series of these products.

[@shmooters5599]

As someone who does not play DnD and whose only interaction with it is via Bg3, the book would give me many pretty pictures. Glamour Bard looks so neat it almost makes me want to play the game. She gives off GGST I-No vibes who I also adore, kinda hoping someone mods the class into Bg3 at some point so I could give it a try.

[@markturner1220]

Just subscribed and saw it tick from 198k to 199k. Blink and you’ll be breaking the 200k milestone!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thanks for subscribing! :)

[@MemphiStig]

My intro to D&D was the Moldvay box set. I didn't have a group to play with. The guy that intro'd me to the game lived in another town, and he played AD&D anyway. (And I didn't have that long with it either, because that was right around the time the Panic hit.) But even without a group, I spent countless hours creating countless characters, and it engaged my imagination to no end. That was my first D&D game, so I totally get what you mean. And it was fine for a while, but ultimately getting to play with a group was far better. And we never raised our pc's more than a level or two either, if that, no matter where we started them.

[@tc0930]

I just realized how nice it is that you are often outdoors for these videos and how different that is from the others.

[@BartholomewFlutist]

My SIL is an incredibly casual player, and the 2024 handbook that I have (early access copy we were loaned), and she has found making her character much, much easier.

[@morridin8]

Can I recommend Alien RPG? Very nice character creation, straightforward dice roll system, and definitely half of the characters are dead a few sessions in. Stress and fun every evening.

[@Frostrazor]

LOVE Alien RPG. They along with The One Ring (IMO) are the best adaptations from other popular media/culture that truly captures the feel and intent of the original art/source. Alien RPG's rules and TOR, integrate well with the feeling and portrayal that is meant to be - such as having a corporate plant within the mix of PCs that no one know's who that is - adding to paranoia, gaining "madness" points if you go full automatic on your weapons due to the stress and fear, and the madness fear that all other characters gain when the "expert" can't explain what or why something is - making everyone else nervous. These are little nuances that add so much depth and flavor. The One Ring has same with their "Shadow" accumulation and the focus on "Fellowship" importance in being confident and reducing your corrupted shadow points.

[@BlackShardStudio]

Free League ftw

[@user-jt1js5mr3f]

@@BlackShardStudio Yes! I have all of TOR and just picked up Pirate Borg. Loving it.

[@thatradiogeek]

"Not made for casual players" it absolutely is. The increased size of the book is due to the additional art taking up literally half a page in places.

[@Malkuth-Gaming]

I've found that the older I get the less options I want. Shadowdark is perfect for that as you dont get to choose. Just roll that die and see what you get and deal with it ^^

[@hendriklobe577]

1:19: "vaguely medieval themed superhero" Thanks for that description, it pin points down DnD-Characters.

[@LB_adventurer]

Bob is a man that "gets it." You've got a great approach to gaming that is so relatable. Thanks for sharing.

[@witchesbruise8792]

Great video. I love to see you talking about the difference between actually playing an RPG and just pouring over character options and theory crafting. I'd just like to add that it's not just casual players that like lighter rules systems. There are also very committed players who specifically want a lighter rules system that gets out of the way so they can use their own judgement and imagination to play a potentially very complicated campaign. Without all the cognitive load of lots of rules and build, rules light systems allow players and DMs to manage highly complicated networks of players, NPCs, and world happenings, that let the players get up to some amazing schemes!

[@SortKaffe]

5e24 is amazing for casual players, since it's rebalanced so you can build an effective character simply by choosing any class, subclass, feat, and weapon that appeals to you. 5e14 was much less accesible, since it was so unbalanced that you needed to know that a lot of options were traps (True Strike, Warrior of the Elements Monk, not multiclassing after 5 levels in Barbarian or Ranger etc.). Sadly, it required research to know that the only effective way to play a Ranger was a Gloom Stalker with a Hand Crossbow and the Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter feats.

[@mandisaw]

"Build an effective character by choosing any [combo]" was exactly the design philosophy of 4e. If it's true, then the evolution of 5e into "4e with less math" will be nearly complete 😂

[@Evendur6748]

​@@mandisaw4e is pretty based, I swear if it was called DND Tactics instead of 4e it would have done better lol

[@mandisaw]

@@Evendur6748 That, and the timing. A lot of folks in '08 weren't setup for online play, or even eBooks, and there were still a lot of FLGS around who got angry about being left with loads of unsold 3.5e inventory (only a few yrs after being stuck with 2e and 3e inventory). We had forums, but nothing like today's communities around streamers, with actual-play to watch and form opinions on. And their VTT idea was basic by modern standards, but incredibly ambitious at the time. Also 4e never got the third-party support or video game "marketing" that earlier or later editions have enjoyed. That makes a huge difference, esp when 4e didn't really release many of its own adventure modules or updated settings. 4e in the 2020s wouldn't have been everyone's favorite, but it would've been a lot more warmly received.

[@SortKaffe]

4e with advantage/disadvantage instead of stacking bonuses/penalties doesn't sound half bad 😉 They've incorporated several concepts from 4e, but just not advertised them as such due to the bad reputation of 4e. I'm glad that Skill Challenges are omitted though

[@mandisaw]

@@SortKaffe Skill Challenges were awesome, but needed better examples of actual-play. I ran one in my Al'Qadim-Arabian Nights themed game to handle a chase across the rooftops. Couple PCs were following the target parkour-style with cool movement abilities, while the others were either using Knowledge: Local to head them off, or using their abilities to try to slow him down or put obstacles in their way. One PC had a djinn servant, she tried to have it cut-off or otherwise envelop the guy, but had to somehow stay in range and line-of-sight.

[@quinn0517]

So close to 200K! 🎉

[@RolioGames]

8:19 "Resortch"

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Resortch: When your first sortch is unsuccessful, so you sortch a second time.

[@leviritter6279]

Bob dropping another banger

[@myhr2320]

Gonna respectfully push back against the criticism that there are so many rules that you won't realistically use them all. To me, it's like saying there are too many books in a library and that you won't realistically read them all in your lifetime. At one point, it's not about usefulness, it's about options. Maybe the point is that the Player's Handbook should have less options and then some of them would have been grouped into another book, like some sort of Advanced Player's Handbook, but I can't help to think that people would then complain that the rules are purposedly sold seperatly to make more money. D&D having more crunch is more faithful to its core identity. It has character levels, a focus on combat, and a lot of peculiar systems like alignements and the vancian magic system. If you want something more accessible and casual-friendly, there are tons of games moree suited for this kind of experience, as Bob showcased. D&D being the most popular TRPG doesn't make it the best, certainly not the best at everything. And again, imho, it should lean into its strenghts instead of trying to reach for the lowest common denominator. But hey, it's what made D&D4 a big success, so what do I know?

[@Tubiega07]

As a beginner in this game. this video was great! subbed!

[@owenbloomfield1177]

Keep in mind that all esitions of the game are in response to what players are actually doing. Each time, the designers look at what home brews and hacks have caught on and added them to the rules. If the rules are becoming more complex and convoluted it is because that is what is happening at most tables. The rules play catch-up, it is not the other way around. Why so much detail on character creation? That is what the public wants.

[@FizzyMcPhysics]

This is why I follow you and DnD Shorts. Such massively different takes. You're saying there's way too much material, he's saying there isn't enough compared to other third party publishers. If you like the casual end of the spectrum, have you checked out Warrior, Rogue & Mage? I haven't played it, but I have read it and I think it's lovely. Tiny, ingenious, and free.

[@onlyplaywizards]

Spot on.

[@user-jt1js5mr3f]

We actively play 5e and Call of Cthulhu, but I've run The One Ring and I'm currently learning Pirate Borg. I find so much value in learning other systems

[@johnharrison2086]

For beginners or casuals you either want strict rules for all situations (like Pathfinder 2e) or rules lite (like Shadowdark) Modern D&D is a wishy washy middle ground that helps no-one.

[@francoisdumont4105]

It's great to see you talk about Cairn and Shadowdark. They need more love on KZbin.

[@chaosblade5906]

As a 5th ed player and DM, I've taken characters from 1-20. Yeah, the top 10 levels are unbalanced, and everything is a bit chaotic, but if you can accept that, there's a lot of fun to be had with high level fantasy, demigod like monsters, and super powerful characters and magic items. Yeah, it is unrealistic, but if you like high fantasy, it's definitely worth playing.

[@Boonedale]

Most of the time when I hear that someone doesn't run games over a certain level it's more of a matter of the DM not being able to run that level of a game for one reason or another. Either thay lack the skills or are just not up the the challenge of doing mid to high lvl games.