D&D 4e Game Play Live Stream - Keep on the Shadowfell (A4 Burial Site)

[@TrustyTabibito]

Thanks for running this again. Was good fun. Also thanks for putting up the full lives afterwards so I can go back and watch the ones or parts I missed.

[@arturbb]

Awesome session! I hope you keep doing more 4e modules like this, I'd absolutely watch em all!

[@ZaWyvern]

Haldor definitely needs to get a magic weapon. And something with a +3 proficiency bonus. The maul is thematic but if he wants to use his Power Attack feat effectively it would be better to have a greatsword or falchion. Maybe more work than it's worth, but I felt bad for him fencing with those minons for the majority of the battle.

[@oldegreybeard]

Haldor's backstory is that he is an aging adventurer whose best days are behind him. The dice certainly helped play into that during this session. 🙂

[@Joshuadmathews]

Kind of a rabbit trail: but for Christmas I got some supplements that use barbarians of Lumeria system, Tinyd6 system books, and some stuff that uses the black hack rules (Almost all the 4e books I want I have gotten in the past, another call out though, is a cool competitive fantasy card game system called Legacy Allure). Anyway, my standout game that I've gotten the most enjoyment out of since cmas is a black hack adjacent product called the D6 hack (real happy I went in for the hardback version since I've used it so much already). This game basically is a rehash of the BH e1 I believe system but switches out a d20 for a 3d6. However, it is written from the perspective of a dm who has maybe never dmd before or those new to the hobby (as kind of a walk through to then get you into OSR,BH, or 5e). However, I noticed that the game seems to be more in the vein of stuff from original D&D (Theres no races for example) so it was also cool to have an easy explained system that explained OSR stuff. I also got to GM some stuff for a family member and they seemed to grasp the game pretty fast compared to maybe something like a d20 game. Anyway, I went on drivethrough to see if there was any other OSR stuff that used 3d6 and found a freebee called MicroLite 74 3d6 (something like that title, my favorite microlite game and introductory system/module is the microlite one developed by Pelgrane Press, Owl Hoot Trail). Anyway, last night I read the micro74's introductory essay on OSR mindset versus the heroic game mindset and thought that would be a interesting essay perhaps to read or discuss sometime on this channel, since it has a big 4e fanbase and following and it might interesting to compare and contrast their thoughts with 4e, if you think it is notable that is-- just suggestion to maybe look into.

[@Joshuadmathews]

Anyway, I've read a little bit more osr books and the like, and I just can't buy into enjoying, personally, 1-3e or 5e stuff (only 4e really has an appeal to me D&D related as presented by TSR or WoC). I think other systems or companies do a better job presenting this concepts and would prefer something like BH type stuff htat simplifies a lot of stuff into ruleslite less page count to convey the same concepts. 4e, though, is perhaps the only major crunch big book count system that I play with (def not Pathfinder or 3e stuff and 5e just is meh and I think perhaps still needs to be cooked) however a big contrast to 4e and games like the OSR movement and 5e, really, is the large HP and damage amount. A goblin in other D&D games or adjacent and inspired will have anywhere at most to 1-7 hp. Whereas a non mook goblin in 4e could have close to 30 hp. I know people play it where you cut monster HP in half and double their damage. But the thought came to me, while reading the above essay I mentioned, what if instead of doubling 4e monsters damage you instead halved the PC HP to begin with? This would mean changing their Bloodied levels and probably means doing a little more under the hood mechanical changes, like how heal ups would work and for how much, but could this maybe help some of these complaints/concerns laid against 4e or how to take 4e make it reflect the other iterations of D&D? If I knew my hp was lower, maybe I wouldn't always charge head in to a battle as I might be prevalent to do in a normal 4e game? Therefore adding back in that puzzle problem solving aspect that was there more in the 80s versus in how todays games are written? Just a thought and discussion. I know OSR is a continuous growing steam and 4e I think never got its full love (what pulled me in was the simplified rules iteration of 4e's Gamma World system), and also perhaps the high damage possibilities in 4e could be re-spun (if halving ALL hp) or viewed as something in the vein of Savage Worlds pulp feel/inspired damage system? Again just a talking point discussion and something maybe to consider in another video. And in theory, this should make combats go faster?

[@oldegreybeard]

Thank you for the input. I am always trying to think of new discussion topics, and I love comparing the various rules over the years and how they influenced play. I think the idea of fiddling with HP and AC and such to improve the game is something worth looking into. Had 4e stayed around longer, we probably would have seen more of those sorts of things in the core rules. I've looked at OSR and I do like that style of play. I have a couple reasons why I ultimately set it aside. 1) I feel the game should be fun for the players by challenging the characters. The characters we build and play in this fantasy world would know things that you and I do not. So I think it is reasonable for the player to roll a die to see if their character knows what to do. I have no idea what kinds of things ranger would say in the tavern to try and convince the noble to let them hunt on their land. But my character definitely would. Within OSR, the focus is more on challenging the player. You are expected to not only say that your character goes to talk to the noble to try and get permission, you are expected to actually find the right words. That is perfectly fine if the players know the words and have some creative ideas. It is a problem for me when it is required. You put together some puzzle and you expect the players at the table to figure it out. That can be fun in any game, but OSR seems to push the notion that the players need to solve it not the characters. I am not a fan of that. 2) As I delved deeper into OSR I began to come across some elements in the fan base that bothered me. It was similar to my experiences whenever I would talk about Pathfinder. It was...unpleasant. 4e has the luxury of being this niche where there are folks like us who love it and then everyone else just ignores it. So we can just do our thing. All the other games seem to have folks that want to be gatekeepers for determining who is worthy to speak about their game. And pass judgement on HOW you talk about their game. I know it is a small subset of the overall fanbase, but man they sure were nasty. So I just decided to move on. All that said, never say never. I still love to talk about the differences (and the similarities) between all the different games and styles of play. Thanks

[@Joshuadmathews]

@@oldegreybeard Thanks for the reply and taking the time to read my idea. Itd be really interesting to hear your take on pages 4-8 of the microlite 74 3d6 ruleset, under the "what is old school play section. Some sub headings read, to name a few: Heroic, Not Superheroic; Achievement, not Advancement; No Skills; Limited Magic Items; No Assumption of "Game Balance"; Its Not All About Combat; Reality/Common Sense Trumps Rules; ect... Reading this A, made me think of this channel and B, the random idea of halving player HP instead of Monster Damage. Some of what's written sounds maybe not specifically targeted at games like 4e or 13th Age, but 4e def came to mind several times when reading specific sentence. I have no real attachment history with rpgs, like, oh I played X game all the time... the only game I really got to have a few sessions with one year was in college when some buddies and I played The One Ring 2e (a pretty neat system that I think blends narrative and crunch or mechanics into a split 50/50 rules system) so because of that I don't have a particular love for D&D or one style of play. Soloing is mainly how I get to play or just customizing and OSR has only come to mind to late A, due to its popularity showing up in YT videos, B, rules light mechanics are a must for me versus large tome of rules, and C, cost comparisons versus the behemoth that is WotC products. So I by no means can speak on behalf of the OSR movement and whatnot, just curious on A, simplifying/streamlining 4e or B, what would happen if the two types of games were merged or borrowed from one another ect, for example, what would happen if one used 4e as their base to try an OSR style game or something... Or how could 4e benefit (or speed up) by incorporating game/system X -- like Index Cardrpg or Black Hack. I know nothing specific just thought experiments. As for gatekeeping and such. Yes, it is very refreshing to see that 4e fans, or this channel, just has a love for the game and are just interested in playing it or seeing it played or discussing it for its own sake versus something else (by no means what I was trying to do in the original comment, btw). Savage Worlds Pathfinder is pretty dope and I got into that last year and I have a family member who suffers pretty bad from depression and in the past lite sessions of rpg (like that Owl Hoot Trail one) has helped him to just have fun and have a memorable experience, however, the swinging damage mechanics, though cool and awesome and pulpy, I foresaw the chance, mechanically, for an almost instant kill on a PC from a goblin (if the rolls were good) I was curious the effects this would have with someone with mental illness and wanted advice on reddit from others thoughts or rules that I could use in place ect. And almost immediately I can't even really describe it, someone got on there and just attacked my comprehension of the rules when I read the rulebook and then cited page x, page x, page x, and paragraph c that needed to be reread again, ect, and just basically called me out for being a noob to the SW and I just thought it was very distasteful because I was speaking on the topic of the benefits or hindrance game mechanics can have on mental illness and it just left a bad taste in my mouth ever since to play the game, even though I thought Savage Pathfinder was a great fantasy rpg. Thankfully I'm a part of Facebook community for Four Against Darkness, a solo rpg game, and they're a pretty open community that isn't judgmental so I rarely spend my time on forum or chats with systems or games with like you have said do nothing but gatekeep.

[@Thegn]

First, I appreciate what you are doing here, but. Lol, always a but. Is there a reason why you don't have another person playing the NPCs, or PCs? Someone to bounce off and provide more engagement, and increase learning potential. Admittedly, this is my view and it may provide a more enjoyable stream for only me. Sorry if this has been asked and answered before.

[@oldegreybeard]

Thank you for the feedback. From the beginning, I did not want this stream to just be something that people watch. I wanted it to be like I am DMing a game for the entire community. If there were multiple people on the stream making the decisions, then it would just feel like any number of other let's play streams out there. Perfectly valid, but not what I was going for. It actually started as an experiment to see how it would go. It is not perfect. The encounters take longer than they would in real life. The delay in the chat can be a burden. But, I try to learn from each session and make the next one better. Those tweaks may eventually involve someone else joining the stream, but I do not want to lose the core tenet of community participation. Thanks

[@Thegn]

Appreciate the response! I would say even Johnny Carson had his Ed McMahon. Totally showing my age here.😅