D&D MONSTER RANKINGS - DEMONS (pt. 1)

Behold the chaotic hordes of the Abyss!
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“Double Helix” “Rise” “The Fiery Furnace” “March On” “Pride Before the Fall” “Sea of Sand” “Angel of Mercy” “Start Your Engines” “Collison” “By The Sword”
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Licensed under Creative Commons - KZbin Audio Library

[@lexibyday9504]

Esper the bard: "That's right a demon orc" Me: A dork"

[@sammydaley3228]

well the alternative is an oamen

[@nobodyimportant4778]

It makes sense that they want to get to the material plane. It's like a game. They don't face repurcussions for their actions because they can't be killed there.

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

Like griefplayers in a videogame. :D

[@suckafish441]

​00 p 3:04

[@suckafish441]

😊😊0😊😊

[@kodytiffany5686]

For the Balgura... invisibility and disguise self make sense for an Apex Predator type of threat. That Brutal savagry makes me think that the idea was a magical stalker/hunter and like a Lion they are expected to try and stealth there way up to there prey and ambush; the low HP makes think that even more because attacking in small numbers in an ambush fashion leaves foes weakened enough that the low HP is in similar amount to those that were ambushed at most. Strongly suggestive stating+mostly non-existent expressing still lands it in D tier, but I hope I was able to make sense from your confusion.

[@johnjaeger2968]

"how should these demons mechanics and lore be written, boss?" "hmmmm, *abysmally* "

[@grimchampagne9105]

Barlgura - You are overthinking this demon. Intelligence doesn't necessarily equal instinct. His abilities actually make perfect sense if you think of it as a hunter/ambush monster. Oh, a giant canyon the adventures have to get over or a giant hole...that if they fell would definitely do some damage making them easier prey. Enter invisibility and phantasmal force, you can't see it, but it can see you and effect you with spells, hide that under a general perception roll offsetting it to the DC, if they fail, "that's enough for you to notice a rickety bridge across the cavern(or hole) that looks like it supports your weight", because of the flavor text of phantasmal force, the person will just think the other's are blind and can't see it and walk to their doom...the RP in this creature's abilities is also better than you gave it.

[@shandaniel2999]

I wish that we got statblocks for Arch devils in their angelic form. Imagine a devil trying to get his original holy power back. Just a thought.

[@TheCatgirlGaymer]

I would love that.

[@Digitalhdwmn]

@Carter Gourley except laziness

[@lukeshaul820]

That can't happen. And in the real world most of the Christians reading this are now wondering what drugs you are on.

[@gustavosanabio473]

When I DM, I like to describe all demons as sort of different from eachother, it does not seem logical to me that creatures born out of the abyss and pure chaos are neatly separated into categories. Of course I undearstand the authors Ideia behid it because it wouldnt be possible to have the monster sheets otherwise... But still, I like to give them some good diversity when describing each individual demon to sort of give them a unique chaotic identity,

[@Bluecho4]

It's probably such that while every demon is technically unique, the Abyss is no stranger to patterns (albeit wild ones) and convergent evolution. Technically, no organism in existence is _exactly_ like another; all humans have individual traits that differ, and it would be safe to assume the same for other humanoids in DnD. Nonetheless, organisms also trend towards similar traits in other ways, especially when they are related, or seek to embody the same ecological niche. Demons birthed from the same "area" of the Abyss might trend towards certain sorts of forms, simply because proximity breeds similarity. It's not like the unbridled Chaotic Neutral parts of the multiverse - where literally anything could happen - nor can the Abyss be wholly uninfluenced by things and places it comes into contact with. Evil itself influences the Abyss, causing limiting it by virtue (or perhaps vice) of having to conform to the needs and impulses of wickedness. The Abyss can vomit forth varied forms of life, but they all still trend towards barbarity, violence, selfishness, and indulgence. It is not, therefore, truly chaotic. Why, then, would other forms of contact - even between abyssal creatures already extent - not engender a degree of similarity? If nothing else, Demon Princes, once birthed and risen to power, have their own ideas about what is right and proper. Demon Princes don't see the multiplicity of forms as being virtuous (in the twisted manner that demons see as "Virtue"), only those traits that conform to their personal standards. Namely, those traits most like themselves. As such, while wide swathes of the Abyss might be a stew of endless creation, the realms belonging to the Demon Princes will be forced towards certain forms, both from the passive influence of strong demons at their center, and if for no other reason than because those same strong demons will kill any fiends not amenable to their purposes. A demon not pleasant for a Demon Prince to look at - comparatively speaking - will be destroyed, its uniqueness wiped from the multiverse to make way for something more to the master's liking. Baphomet will favor hunters, Zuggtmoy will promote fungus, etc.

[@gustavosanabio473]

@@Bluecho4 I like your idea! Here, take this! *throws you a little star*

[@GrimgoreIronhide]

I think they more or less say that this should be the way you do it in Hordes of the Abyss. It's been a while since I have read it, but this is hardly an uncommon sentiment. The demons just need it more than most.

[@recursiveslacker7730]

Tanar’ri forms are as uniform as they are because the original Obyrith demons created them as slave warriors at the Queen of Chaos’s behest.

[@liao2211]

Now that we have done Demons and Devils, how about Celestials

[@SubSimpich]

To be fair there aren't a lot of Celestials in 5E and it would be a really sort video, but even though I know this, I'd still want to see it too.

[@AlgaeNymph]

@@SubSimpich Pathfinder does a better job with celestials, having them be more than just boring "paladins with wings." I think you'll like Arshea~

[@SubSimpich]

@@AlgaeNymphGuess I better check that out

[@deathi]

my character is a lich that is weak with normal attacks but strong with crowd control abilities(stuns, mind controls), mastering armys of minions, summoning demons, and making anyone i want slowly go insane. i have been working on this character for 6 years througout both homebrew and local sessions. i am currently working towards becoming the leader in a cult that practices dark magics

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

Disguise self only lets you disguise as a creature a foot taller or shorter with the same basic arrangement of limbs. Balgura is 8-15 feet tall. And walks on it’s fist. It can only disguise itself as a giant ape.

[@flibbernodgets7018]

Chasme reminds me of those nasty mosquito vampires in the Darkest Dungeon blood court DLC

[@Bluecho4]

Now I'm imaging the headaches that a party could face, when they not only get their blood sucked by a Chasme, but find out later that they've contracted an abyssal disease. A disease that drives them towards bloodlust (and bloodthirst) and madness. Fun for the DM, and not so much for the party. Some may ask "but diseases are so easy to get rid of in 5e!" Yes. Which is why you don't have the symptoms of the disease manifest until much later. Hopefully after the PCs have already been driven to attack someone, and/or passed on the infection to someone else. I don't understand the logic of DMs who tell their players immediately that they've caught something. Diseases rarely work that way, and letting them know will just mean they cure the disease at the first opportunity. Instead, make the Constitution saving throws for the player, behind the screen, and silently keep track of the illness's progress, the players and their characters none the wiser. It's not unfairness, if it's 1) realistic (or at least verisimilitude-inous), and 2) part of the challenge. It's the same reason you don't tell the players to make Perception checks they didn't themselves ask for, because even a failed check made out of the blue tips them off and biases their behavior in an unrealistic way.

[@Klaital1]

@@Bluecho4 The disease is the least of their worries when fighting a Chasme, just take a look at how insanely hard they hit, averaging whopping 40 damage per hit, more than half of which also reduces the targets max hp, and instantly kills them if it reduces their max hp to 0. Level 6 characters can't take too many hits like that.

[@dagonofthedepths]

In 3.5 the Bar-lgura had an ability called Abduction which lets a bar-lgura can use greater teleport to transport other creatures. Even unwilling ones but you can to make a DC 18 will save to resist it if you want. So having this ape knock a guy out in an ambush then whisking him away it do demon ape things to him is how its suppose to be played I guess. At least in 3.5

[@kevinedwards5390]

Guerrilla warfare. I feel like that has a lot to do with why the big gorilla demon has spells that would let it be a good ambush predator

[@DaJudge420]

The reason the barlgura has low hp and Is stated really weird is because in 5E it is designed to be a summoned demon . And wizards of the coast didn’t want the summon to be OP. Which kinda sucks. They do that with everything. Like when they made Minotaur a playable race . I actually wanted to play a large character it would have made some fun RP, but they said it would be two op , so the race keeps the height and weight but is considered a medium but when you encounter one that is hostile it is still considered a large creature. They can literally be the same size but just because it’s a player it has to be medium or below.

[@420metalsnake]

I am currently running Out Of the Abyss, and this was very helpful. Great content, i will be eagerly awaiting part 2

[@edwardstone2723]

the disguise self for the bargura could camouflage

[@varanasiwalks1451]

"3.5 was a complicated mess, but 4e and 53 went too far in the other direction." 2nd edition ftw!

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

2e. W3-3.5e class highlights.... fuck this 5e. And 4e ....*shudders*....fuck that....

[@expertoflizardcorrugation3967]

i can imagine a mage of some sort summoning many small and weak demons and turning them into shadow demons, that might be fun, or maybe have the player do the killing. an alkolith would be fun to use too, able to spur a plot of someone finding it and using it to open a window into the abyss

[@crusader7772]

Alkilith is now one of my favourites

[@SubSimpich]

Finally! With all the other monster rankings you've done, a demon one was manditory

[@ronanthibault677]

DARK CRYSTAL, great video, I agree with you on most of this although the demon lords are where most of the interesting things are so that’s kinda sad

[@MrGreensweightHist]

I think most of the demons have low HP to offset their wide range of resistances.

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

18:28 how fitting then!

[@wesleyvalk9129]

Hezrou should get an update, I liked the Pod Demon from 4th edition, maybe combine the two creatures? Give the Hezrou (which already looks like a huge toad) the ability to spawn small copies from it's back like a Surinam toad.

[@titanjde]

Digging the Slayer references!

[@xaphaniariel2797]

The minor demons are excellent proposals for alternative summons

[@NotEpimethean]

big fan of Tanarukks

[@I_am_ALTAIR]

Dante:"need my services?"

[@iclutchrooftops5524]

17:20 Esper crying in 5E

[@kyriakosnikolaidis5368]

I've been waiting for this for so long!

[@ananass8030]

no misplaced-soul demon? a soul that wasn't bad enough to become a demon but somehow misplaced into being one? maybe a race of goody two shoes true neutrals that are looked down upon by the other demons?

[@GameDogLeader21]

getting annoyed at the simpleness of demons, is silly. If any group of monsters is gonna be simple it'll be demons demon still can be very cool but for the most part they are savage carnage incarnate. The simplicity is what I like about them, wanting to change that makes them not demons.

[@scarease1]

In my dad campion had Bard Vark working with a Evil Mage .

[@khalidkhothiwale4124]

is demogorgon is a demon and which tier demon can demogorgon defeat tell me

[@SophiaAphrodite]

Ahh Slayer references in your rankings. Very nice. Bonus points

[@SaintAnimus]

I appreciate the metal music tiers

[@wolfboy18]

The Bulezau reminds me of a Wendigo in a weird way... Am I the only one who gets Wendigo vibes from that thing? Also they need a Wendigo, I mean come on, it's a creature born from Cannibalism...

[@linguisticallyoversight8685]

In one of the planescape manuals for 2nd edition they mention a non demonic version of the Armanite insomuch that they aren't demonic looking they look more like a centaur with ram horns what in the world is the name of that race I have been looking everywhere I can't find any reference to it anywhere?

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

Under the gith. Look there. Think i recall it being something with them within the war they are having w the. Yankai vs zerai

[@nikfisto4100]

I dig the Slayer reference

[@akaisora27]

As you are talking about all these monsters and the ideas you have for them, I am constantly wondering why don't you simply modify the creature to your liking? That in essence is the point of running a game. Create a world all your own build off your imagination and inspiration. I don't think I have ever left a monster to be as is described in the monster manuals, I always try to make them my own in some shape way or form.

[@Thkaal]

I'm just wondering if esper has ever considered the Atlantean Trilogy because the way he talks he talks like someone who's played

[@thebest7404]

Esper!,You claim to be a Bard yet I haven't heard you recite a single epic,Or create a single Poem!

[@esperthebard]

Go to my channel page and check out the "short stories" and "poems" sections

[@jimjimmy8900]

Great video! Keep up the good job

[@millerdiamond708]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO

[@ARC--5973]

23:12 You and everyone else, Esper

[@MalevolentDivinity]

Hezrou are giant Troglodytes. In basically every way. I'd rather use it as a bigger Troglodyte.

[@esperthebard]

good call, they are like big troglodytes

[@jacobkeary6740]

*_It's reign in blood_*

[@borntodie297]

Once used a Shadow Demon who had to 'test' the party. The stick of that fight was that at certain hp thresholds he would sink into the floor (not taking damage for encounter its sake), only to pop up one turn later with 4-5 shadows looking like it in tow XD That was one dark game of wack a mole for my player ;p

[@martintrebichavsky4243]

CR 8 monster in F tier? That is wasted opportunity.

[@fantomp1773]

21:20 Those are really inaccurate, I don’t know what they were thinking, the hp estimates are two to four times of the hp of the actual monsters

[@Klaital1]

The hp isn't the only factor used to calculate the monsters final challenge rating, and most demons are really strong in the offense side of things which bumps their CR up.

[@llewelynshingler2173]

Why isn't there an E tier?

[@devinweir6499]

ranking them after slayer songs

[@dilophosaurussk4333]

anybody play ark survival evolved here? i made some stat blocks for the creatures of the game: Dodo small beast, unaligned AC 9 natural armor HP 18 SPEED 30 ft. STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA 8 10 8 4 10 12 SENSES passive perception 10 CR 1/4 ACTIONS PECK melee weapon attack, reach 5 ft., one target, hit: 3 bludgeoning damage Parasaur huge beast, unaligned AC 12 natural armor HP 65 SPEED 30 ft., swim 15 ft. STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA 10 10 15 1 15 15 SKILLS perception plus 5, intimidation plus 5 SENSES passive perception 15, blindsight 25 ft. CR 5 ACTIONS HEADBUTT melee weapon attack, reach 5 ft., one target, hit: 9 bludgeoning damage ROAR all medium or smaller creatures within 45 ft. of the parasaur that can hear it must make a DC 15 wisdom saving throw or become frightened BTW: i am open to criticism and as long as you present a valid argument and are not rude i am willing to change the stat blocks

[@northernplasma4846]

Bulezav I fought one in ds3

[@wyyyve]

Bar-Lgura gorilla warfare, that's why they have those spells, its a dumb joke

[@jackiesantos2121]

I wondered the Doom Slayer kill all these demons he loves killing demons can't wait for Doom eternal

[@1OldWriter]

Only a fool would use the last to versions of D&D as they were put together by a few blabbering idiots that had no idea what they were doing. Use the old Monster manuals and Deities books and you'll find they're put together much better. Or you could use your head and use what parts you want from all of them. I personally won't play the never versions as the only thing I could see was they wanted to Erase Gygax from every existing and sell more books. F that.

[@lsb2623]

HELL yeah.

[@linguisticallyoversight8685]

And you see a type 1 demon oh wait I forgot they stop giving them number categories crap 😂🤣😂 seriously though I think I'm the only person in the world that misses The Old demon number categories almost as much as I miss THAC0 lol

[@Darknight4434]

Monster manual still gives demon categories

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

32:40 hence the upper, under & lower dark being such aN unfocused on paramount concerning liabilities. 🌠✨🖋️🗡️🌉🎭🎰🌠

[@ianbyrne465]

I think you did the Barlgura dirty. Imagine him as this massive gorilla sneaking through the jungle, a demon escaped from the abyss and using the jungle as his hunting ground. He can use the trees as his cover, to hide and sneak around, picking the party off. With the right setting ans maybe a few tweaks, he can be a great low-mid level monster fight

[@justsomewitcherwithalongsw4233]

“Someone say demons?” Asked a man in green colored armor with a large rifle at the ready.

[@ShadowWolfTJC]

Coincidentally, I kinda pictured the Manes as being akin to Doom 2016's Possessed Humans, the Hezrou as being akin to Hell Knights, and the Barlguras as being akin to Pinky Demons.

[@thar5518]

Or a huge man in silver/grey knight like power armour with a double barreled .75 cal machine guns on his wrist and a blue glowing sword

[@jcons114]

Rip and Tear!

[@clitcrusader4897]

This works for both doomguy and master chief

[@flaschosaurius2205]

Demons ? I sense some sincere heresy here ! Exterminatus is on the way

[@professorsponge1554]

The old rule with demons (and devils) was that the shorter the name, the more dangerous they were.

[@Dankschon]

Yeah, like for example: "Ex".

[@mechzilla569]

Angelo Adriano the most dangerous demon Z

[@LEAHPLAYSYT_MM2-YT]

Or c

[@vagledip5190]

"N"

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

🥱😶🤨🤭

[@docartemis2878]

For the Barlgura with it’s stealth spells and low hitpoints, not to mention it’s ape like appearance, I think it’s meant to be more of a drop ambush predator. Hides itself above a path, then drops down in the middle of a group of intruders, them tears them to pieces before they can react.

[@enriquecabrera2137]

good catch

[@Klaital1]

@@enriquecabrera2137 At least in 3rd edition it specifically goes into detail about how the Bar-lgura are intelligent and use their magical abilities craftily and make great scouts and skirmishers who enjoy setting ambushes and attacking by surprise.

[@elgatochurro]

it also has invisibility, my players personally dont stealth, the heavy armor user carries a torch or light cantrip or such... so basically hes always giving away their position

[@thomaspentecost2189]

I was actually about to post a similar answer, but I was going to add that because of its low hit points, it would work in a group, surprising weaker party members and pummeling/beating them to death, allowing other higher CR demons to show up and distract the more powerful PCs.

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

For some reason I imagine 3 red dots in a triangle suddenly appearing on someone and a quiet gnarl sound appear before the attack.

[@Pluveus]

Heard your breakdown of the Barlgura abilities, and thought, "Sounds like some predator shit to me," and the description does say it takes trophies from kills much like a hunter would, so I think that might be where they're going with it.

[@IzalorDantin]

"Sorry Hezrou, 5e turned you into demonic fart ogres." lmao

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

I can see people being too lazy to organize a group that can tackle lowlevel demons effectively so whoever organizes D&D in general, has _"nerfed"_ the Demons in order to balance things out. Never appease the whiners or casuals in a game. Never.

[@nonachyourbusiness1164]

@@FreedomAndPeaceOnly Or play in whatever way you want just having fun with it. It's only a game dude

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

@@nonachyourbusiness1164 It is only fun and games until you despair over the inability of other players. ;)

[@Number1masksfan]

@@FreedomAndPeaceOnly you are being to harsh here. I like a challenge but not everyone does and this game is meant to be for everyone

[@Number1masksfan]

@@FreedomAndPeaceOnly For some people dnd is a way to relax

[@nathankelley1466]

I like your Slayer based rankings!

[@ZedStone1]

\M/

[@lordofchromium1534]

I’m not the only one who noticed that... neat Metal isn’t dead

[@buboniccraig896]

I think I figured out why the Barlgura has disguise self and invisibility. Picture this: deep in the swamp you get surrounded by bullywugs, when suddenly a crazed bullywug runs out from the woods, and begins brutally killing its own kin. As it does this, the party becomes confused and worried, but soon this bullywug begins growing in size. Tusks begin to painfully grow out of its mouth, and red fur begins to grow on it. The party soon realizes that it was not a bullywug, but in fact a balgura. It looks over its shoulder, eating a bullywug that it ripped into shreds, and lets out a painfully loud roar. You could also do something where the balgura suddenly ambushes the party with invisibility, but I like the disguise self thing more.

[@mathewpoole3589]

Barlgura = ambush predator demon. They arr savage but prefer to attack by surprise and to pick prey off, one at a time. Hence the low HP and abilities centered around concealing itself.

[@Bluecho4]

Exactly. The Barlgura practices ambush and hit-and-fade tactics. A brute can be employed in different ways, including using animal cunning. If nothing else, even a rock-stupid animal wants to avoid dying, and will use basic tactics to ensure this. Barlgura's use these spells to do just that.

[@mathewpoole3589]

@Lance Clemings Oh they are still bruisers, just more of the cowardly kind. Looking at the artwork in the video, you can see that they want to avoid a frontal assault. Instead preferring to attack the person at the rear. Whether or not that person is still alive is debatable, but the Barlgura has its hand over their face muffling any screams, while it watches the party move on. The bruiser part comes in during the actual combat. As a group they'll team up against a single target and pummel it to death, and tearing it apart with shear ferocity. Factoring in surprise attack damage, and a squishy character could easily k.o'd in the first round. A burst attack and escape method could be easily employed with them ambushing, causing some serious damage then breaking away with their invisibility spell. Their lower HP is a weakness in 1v1, but as a group it is offset by their numbers. So they would rather avoid attacking on their own.

[@Bluecho4]

@Mathew Poole Indeed, a good way to employ the Barlgura would be to team him up with a bunch of trash mobs, either "normal" monsters or lesser demons. While the trash mobs engage first and tie up the party, the Barlgura "dives", picking off select PCs and then departing. Better yet, the Barlgura might use Disguise Self to appear like one of the trash mobs, only to show his true strength when a PC runs over, thinking they can dispatch him with ease. If the Barlgura was a little smarter, the DM could have used them by having their Disguise Self take the form of an "innocent victim" being assailed by the trash mobs. The PCs try to save the Barlgura, only for it to spring its ambush at an appropriate time. But that seems like a plan just slightly too sophisticated for its Intelligence score as is.

[@mathewpoole3589]

@@Bluecho4 There is a blurred line between intelligence and learned behavior. Creatures like ants are not that smart. But they build elaborate nests that have separate food storage, brooding chambers, and graveyards. Not to mention their ability to find their way in and out of places. As such an observant Barlgura may notice through multiple observations. That humans often trust orangutans. Or that they may even approach one that's wounded to both aid or kill it. These Barlgura could theoretically teach/show this to other Barlgura

[@ChitenBugMan]

I had one convince my Dwarf Barbarian that there was a massive Dire wolf (he had a deeptooted psychological fear of Wolves) using it's phantasmal killer and then killed the cleric after beating me half to death. Fun times, ranger kicked it's ass though

[@crocketlawnchair259]

I hope you can do a video on the common monsters like orcs, goblins, etc. those are my favorite and I love to RP them.

[@CRydon200]

General Ebony Darkness Dementia Raven Way I think he already did that

[@SilverDungeoneer]

I thought that the way D&D afterlife works is unless your soul is claimed by a god, if your evil you'll go to the 9 hells if your Lawful evil, hades if your neutral evil, or then to the abyss if your chaotic evil. i don't know that is how it was explained to me. Also hades basically sells its souls to the demons and devils.

[@2g33ksgamingttv3]

Evil souls become these evil larvae(or good souls that were corrupted into doing evil acts) and then the three different fiends(yugoloths, devils, demons) along with liches, necromancers etc will barter with the larvae for making new fiends or as sources of power.

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

Fun Fact: the Goristro was so boring that its first appearance (in TD91) was to make up for forgetting to include it the MMII hat mentioned it along with some other demons that did appear. Gary termed it a "big dumb demon."

[@critsfreaks9970]

I’ve said it before but MONSTOSITY TIER LIST

[@hamstsorkxxor]

Yes! Can't wait to see my favourite D&D monster (the owlbear) get an S-rank ;)

[@christianlangdon3766]

Yeah wish i could ask for elemental but they for whatever reason have so little

[@buboniccraig896]

But there are so many monstrosities. That would take like 4 videos. But on the other hand, they would be really cool 4 videos.

[@critsfreaks9970]

Yeah I know

[@lisagaughan7154]

@@hamstsorkxxor sorry but Esper has a wierd sense of style. I almost left the video after he hated on many of my fav monsters.

[@johngleeman8347]

Esper, I would to hear your thoughts on the Demon Lords and Lords of Hell. X3

[@johngleeman8347]

@bryan diaz varela I don't recognize that quote. Xp

[@Number1masksfan]

I second this

[@WandersNowherre]

Probably my biggest beef with demons and devils in the D&Dverse is their actual designs. CONCEPTUALLY the idea of devils as militant, tyrannical conquerors bent on controlling the cosmos and demons as ravening, chaotic hordes bent on tearing it apart for their own amusement, and perpetually at war with each other, is amazing. In practice, I feel like the design elements, a lot of which are grandfathered in from old editions, let it down, because they're either too random (Frog monsters! Vulture people!) or look too much like each other (Balors and Pit Fiends both being huge, bat-winged, horned, balrog-like demons, both sides having sexy humanoid tempters/temptresses). There's no common design thread that tells your eye "This is a demon" or "This is a devil" and nothing about any of their designs that could not also have been a design for a non-fiendish monster from elsewhere in the manual, except the aformentioned Balor/Pit Fiend because they literally look like the stereotypical horns/batwings/hooves. Compare this to, as an example, the Chaos forces in Warhammer or to a lesser extent the minions of the Prime Evils in the Diablo series, where the different flavors of evil are really given a distinct design aesthetic, you know instantly when you're fighting the forces of Nurgle vs those of Khorne, Tzeentch or Slaanesh. I'd love to see something like that in D&D.

[@magicalsealand5076]

It is odd how games Workshop has turned all of there factions a unique aesthetic while wizards of the coast has not

[@itspetz7421]

Honestly it probably wouldnt be to hard to make a DnD campaign where you storm slaneesh's palace or stop a cult of zeetch from takeing over a planet.

[@CrazyPangolinLady]

Yeah. I was just looking up the difference between a manes and a lemure. One is chaotic and one is lawful. But most artwork of the lemure looks like an ever changing bunch of slop, which I would think would be MORE chaotic than a regular fat zombie. But whatever.

[@maxmustermann2417]

well said

[@esperthebard]

I agree that there should be some more aesthetic distinction between the types of fiends. That said, according to D&D lore, devils were originally angels, but they became corrupted by endless fighting against demons, so story-wise it is supported that devils would bear some resemblance to demons.

[@baddragonite]

I wanna see a campaign where the party plays as demons. You could make at least a whole session out of trying to get to the surface I think

[@carpedm9846]

"Easy dc" >Dc14 con check For a condition as deadly as paralysis, which Id say is the deadliest condition, a dc14 is very scary. Like even if you have +5, that still means you need to roll 9 or higher. And until you do so all attacks against you crit. Combined with its multi attack this thing is very deadly.

[@esperthebard]

You're referring to the shoosuva. I didn't say it has an "easy DC", I said the poison DC of 14 is a bit low. True, paralysis is one of the most crippling conditions, but the shoosuva has to hit with the attack first, then the target has a fail a DC that is a little under average for a CR 8 creature (DC 16 is average). Also keep in mind the paralysis comes from being poisoned, and poisoned is a pretty easy condition to cure (e.g. 2nd-level spell Lesser Restoration, paladin's Lay On Hands). It's AC is also a bit low, 14, compared to the average for a CR 8 creature, which is AC 16, as well as its 110 hp (176-190 is average). Supposedly these somewhat low stats balance out due to the shoosuva's three proficient saving throws and damage resistances. It's not a badly done monster, I just wanted to clarify because it seemed you had a slight misunderstanding.

[@carpedm9846]

@@esperthebard @Esper the Bard oh, yeah youre right I suppose. I just think that the condition being paralysis instead of something like stun makes up for the lower dc, as insta-crit with advantage is always intimidating. But god damn your voice is even heard through your texts. Have a great day you smooth talker. Or evening/night depending on your timezone.

[@williethenerfherder2193]

Like I said in a previous video do a video about dragons and dragonkin. Throw in drakes, hellfire wyrms, dragon turtles, and the works for your rankings.

[@esperthebard]

I've already started working on the dragons ranking ;)

[@Darknight4434]

There is hellfire wyrms and those alternative dragons for 5e?

[@williethenerfherder2193]

@@Darknight4434 you can just send them over from previous versions of d and d. Homebrew that shit to be stronger if you want.

[@Hazel-xl8in]

WillieTheNerfHerder kobolds!!!

[@Darknight4434]

I know I can, but still things cam get unbalanced. I was just curious about it

[@MadSwedishGamer]

Thank you for this! I recently started DMing a campaign focusing on the Blood Wars with Demons as the main villains. This has been very helpful and interesting.

[@esperthebard]

I'm glad it's helpful for you. Part 2 will be out soon.

[@MadSwedishGamer]

Nice.

[@midnightgreen8319]

Yet another reason 3.5 was the golden age of Dungeons and Dragons. The demons were much more fleshed out and all scary

[@Searrows]

3.5 was the first edition I played D&D in, and whenever I play these new editions they do feel so much less developed. Not to knock 5e, it's very streamlined and for people just learning the game it makes things much easier. I still like and play 5e, but only for quick sessions. If I make a multi session campaign with my pals from back in the day it's in 3.5.

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

Get you some classic 2e books. Really. Spice some shit up

[@zergtoss1]

Pathfinder!

[@zergtoss1]

BeatingClownz 2E was soooooo in depth, goodtimes

[@pipeline789]

Actually I like the simplicity of many of them. I imagine throwing a big army of them onto a kingdom and the party leading some units of a defending army. They are still versitale enough to challenge players in multiple different ways by placing different demon units at different locations and letting faster ones outflank them, but simple enough to not feel wasted as simple foot soldiers.

[@rickfox4068]

@Esper the Bard - I think you are using Shadow Demon's wrong. They are not designed for direct combat. They are used to collect information and sow the seeds of doubt in the minds of adventurers. Use them as information gathers who stalk the players, feeding info back to higher demons. They are also great for running against low level players.

[@CosmereInformant]

It would be cool if you did a part three to this, where you went over the demon lords. Maybe not a straight ranking; like you said they’re a bit beyond the scope, but a comparison of the various ones and the demons that serve them. “Yeenoghu has the most interesting campaign potential because these three demons that directly serve it mesh well with their mortal servants the gnolls” Etc. Etc.

[@Number1masksfan]

Great idea

[@theivthcrusade]

SLAYER!!! I fucking love these tier videos, 10 thumbs up buddy! Keep the metal and d&d scene alive!

[@ginnywillows6558]

One of my favorite improvements to write onto the bulezau is improving the tail. giving it a 10 foot reach, letting it grapple while attacking, and giving it multiattack can make for some fun attacks. drags you in with its tail, starts carving into you, etc. Maybe it grabs you with its tail, then throws you into the ground mid-jump. raises the CR a bit, but makes it a way more memorable fight. Climbing speed, or at least letting it grab onto walls, also helps make it annoyingly mobile.

[@maxblake5564]

I created a homebrew artifact-rarity maul and put a goristro in it, so it just goes to show that even lower-tier demons in this ranking can be the perfect demon for a particular role in the game.

[@georgewesley17]

Would you ever consider doing a monster ranking for the Creature Codex or The Tome of Beasts by the kobold press?

[@grahamschatz5474]

I like vrocks because the dm can just go “vrock” in a funny voice

[@shadoweddragonfilms4424]

12:50 A-hem... "I can make mini-me's :D" *blows up Gohan*

[@Captain_Yorrick]

On the Balgura, phantasmal force could be used to slow down and distract enemies, though this is somewhat out of place. However invisibility is a great skill for them to have due to their inability to tank ranged attacks and their low hp, meaning that they can get up close and deal damage before being hit

[@Carbadonia]

Ah the Vrock, I remember fighting a few along with Camazotz in Ixala

[@cernunnos_lives]

You could always give more personality to individual creatures just as a human character can be varying, so can every demon and devil. They can have different training and still have racial abilities. I always used the monster stats as a racial base and if the creature is intelligent, then it has trained abilities or knowledge.

[@pirwzy]

How's about mount rankings? I have no idea how many there are or how you could even rank them, though. Probably a bad idea after all :\

[@leviv168]

I think its a great idea. Although Esper would have to change how he ranks them slightly though.

[@thurismundbotheric7598]

Not sure what the official ruling is, but at my table it's anything, within reason, that is one size or more of your character

[@pirwzy]

@@thurismundbotheric7598 Yea that sort of approach is probably not too uncommon, making ranking the options too big a task :/

[@thurismundbotheric7598]

An Ogre is NOT within reason

[@pirwzy]

@@thurismundbotheric7598 would you let a player character be the mount of a smaller player character? How would that work?

[@lokitakahashi3042]

most demon got turned into "just roll for initiative " sad husks of there former selves in 5th. lore wise and combat abilities . you want interesting demons, 3.5 and even earlier .

[@blowdagator9181]

I also love the Vrock. Can be used in so many situations and I just throw it in if I need a quick demon.

[@Dragonzzilla]

Ironically, Hezrou are much more interesting as described in Pathfinder. They inhabit bodies of water like swamps and waterways, but more interesting is their presence blights the surrounding area, causing plants to wither and gnarl and making water foul and brackish. Their mere presence can mutate people, turning them into deformed mutants. Their immense strength combined with their laziness means they often bully lesser creatures into servitude, and apparently boggards are their favored servants. You could easily write an adventure about a suspicious and deformed community that distrusts outsiders, making the players assume it's just a backwards town with horrid practices, only to pull back the curtain a bit and steadily reveal it is the influence of a demon.

[@Pandaemoni]

Another good one. FYI, minor point, but, "manes" is pronounced "MON-aze" or "MA-naze". It's a Latin word for the (plural) spirits of the dead, and Latin had no silent "e" convention (although in Latin it took a singular verb often, as it is a collective noun). The "a" is pronounced like the "o" in "cot" and the "e" like a long "a" in most Latin words.

[@esperthebard]

Ignarus eram qui manes erat Latinam est. Tibi gratias ago pro lore.

[@InquisitorThomas]

If I had to take a guess the Balgura was designed to be savage ambush predators they're meant to use illusions to hide and then strike savagely.

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

5E needs the bebilith so we can sing the bebilith song. Bebilith they'll be days like this They'll be days like this my bebilith.