D23 - Replenished. How to make and use D23 replenisher.

[@minutte]

Many thanks. Very useful when starting using D-23 like i do know, in order to confirm the process. It's explained at different places and forums but sometimes not so clear and it seems there are variations. So your explanation, simple and didactic is very nice.

[@PictorialPlanet]

Thanks Antonio!

[@dbw]

Perfect timing as i am about to make some replenisher this week. Great video as usual, keep them coming John.

[@PictorialPlanet]

You got it, Ian!

[@arsmale1]

THanks John, this is the video that I've been waiting for. D23 is a great developer as is the Thornton 2-bath. Great stuff. Your book is now on my list of tomes to get.

[@PictorialPlanet]

Thank you, Andrew! I think you'll like the book 👍

[@AnthonyGrisier]

Wonderful video John. D23 is my go to developer and I've been replenishing. It's nice to see how you do it so I can fine tune my process. One thing that surprised me is that you make up only 500ml of the replenisher at a time. It makes sense and I will start doing that whwn I need to make a new batch.

[@PictorialPlanet]

Thanks! I've seen your work with replenishment and it's superb and a great example for folk following this channel. Anyone reading this should check out Neg Dev's blog. It's linked to on my website under resources.

[@AnthonyGrisier]

@@PictorialPlanet thanks, I appreciate your kindness! Your video on making D23 is what got me started and I've been in love with it ever since. I can see me and D23 having many long years together.

[@SilntObsvr]

I've just started a new batch of D-23 after several years of not developing and then using other developers (mainly replenished Xtol) -- and then another year of not developing. :( I'm glad I came back and rewatched this; I had remembered twice the number of seasoning/ripening rolls. It's a two liter batch (I have a large tank for sheet film that needs 1.6 L to cover the film), so I need *six* rolls to season instead of the twelve I recalled. I'll make up a liter and a half of replenisher, and when that's used up (should be just about 68 rolls) it'll be time to keep half a liter to pre-ripen the next batch. BTW, I've never bought sodium metaborate; I have a DK-25R formula that makes that in solution from borax and sodium hydroxide.

[@PictorialPlanet]

Very glad you're back to develop films again! I'd be interested to see your DK-25R formula if you can send me it or post it here?

[@thevalleyofdisappointment]

Only reason I am hesitant to try this is I am reading d-23 is a low contrast developer and I prefer my prints to have punch and strong contrast. I know we have contrast filters in the darkroom but is there any downside to starting with flatter negs? Can d-76 be ripened and replenished in a similar way?

[@PictorialPlanet]

D23 is a fabulous developer but if you like more punch use D76. You might not get the best negatives with it though.

[@Vintage35MM]

Hi John, When using the D25R does it matter how much developer one puts in the tank when starting the development? I understand the replenishment process, but I can anticipate different developer depletion if I start with 350ml vs 500ml I now have materials and I’m excited to make D23 and D25R. For the replenishing method does it matter how much D23 I start with 350 vs 500? If it matters I’ll mostly develop 35mm with an occasional 120 roll sometimes. Or it doesn’t really matter just as long as I’m consistent. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience

[@PictorialPlanet]

This is a great question, vintage. With replenishment it's about maintaining a balanced developer that can be used again and again. The thing that unbalances the D23 is the film development causing changes in ph, using up developing agent, and an increase in by products. The replenisher helps correct these changes and provides that needed stability. The amount of replenisher added after development is dependent on the square cm of film developed. So, with D23 and D23R we add 22ml replenisher per 36 frame 35mm film or per 120 film or per 10x8 sheet which are all equivalent amounts of film. It doesn't matter how much developer we used because the amount of degradation is the same. The degradation depends on the square cm of film processed not on the amount of developer used. Here's an example. I often develop short cuts if 35mm film 10-12 frames at a time. I use 400ml of developer for each development but this doesn't matter. I only add the replenishment after each 3rd development cycle (equivalent to a 36 exp film). In summary, it the amount of film that dictates replenishment not the amount of developer used.

[@Vintage35MM]

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you for the very quick reply. I still have more thoughts that need help For simplicity let’s say I’m comparing starting developers of 250ml vs 500ml. As you state the film surface will consume a equal amount of active agents to develop the film but looking at it from the perspective of the liquid after the development the 250ml batch will be more depleted than the 500ml batch because I removed an equal amount of active agent from each. That said, when I pour the developer back into the stock bottle it averages out to be the same. Because I used half of the liter for the 500ml batch and a fourth of the liter for the 250ml batch. The stock bottle only sees the burden of one roll of film. If we assume the agitation is constant between the 500ml and 250ml batches then is the 500ml batch is exposed to more degradation due to oxidation than the 250 ml batch and experience different degradation? In the long run will my developer last longer by using least amount of developer per batch vs batches that have excess amounts of liquid? If I do 10exp rolls is it ok to replenish with 7.3ml of replenisher vs 22ml every third roll? A bit more difficult to measure but a more consistent process than remembering how many 10exp rolls were developed.

[@erome5903]

Is there any advantage in terms of the image character using this method? I once read that using the D23 replenished becomes something very special. Is this developer good to develop 35mm negatives? I love your channel, thank you!

[@PictorialPlanet]

Thanks Emil! Yes, D23 replenishment is very good with 35mm as well as larger formats. Replenishment makes for finer grain and sharper negatives.

[@ccoppola82]

John, I love the series and I know this is an old video, but I’m wondering if you dilute your d23 to develop at 1+2, is there a way to replenish or does replenished ONLY work with full strength d-23?

[@PictorialPlanet]

Replenishment only works with stock (full strength) developer. However, the replenished developer becomes better and better and more like 1+2 with use and replenishment. It's gets sharper and more compensating as the byproducts build up and stabilise.

[@flyingo]

This is probably a stupid question, but why not use the replenisher mixture (with the added sodium metasorbate) from the start when making the D-23?

[@PictorialPlanet]

It wouldn't have the same developing profile (grain and development curve) as D23. It would be a completely different developer and probably not very good. The replenisher counters the adverse affects of the development by-products formed keeping the developer working in a similar way to the original.

[@demonidanzanti]

Dear John, thanks for all your amazing work I just purchased your book online! I have a question regarding the D23 replenished system. I use in my jobo a mix of 1300ml each time to process two 120 spirals with either 4 or 3 films covered. When you say develop 3 films do you mean three times used developer, so in my case with say 3 120 films developed 3 times or would you mean having three films developed once in the solution? I do use the same quantities of developer and water irrespective of using 3 or 4 films on the reels. Hope you're having a wonderful new years day! 🎉❤🎉

[@PictorialPlanet]

Thanks for buying my book! Let me answer your question. Three films per 1 Ltr of D23 will season the developer ready for replenishment. Those can be all developed at one time or one after another. If I started with 2 Ltrs of new developer I'd season with 6 films before starting to replenish. Also, replenishment is 22ml per film developed so, after seasoning, when I commence replenishment, if developing three films I'd add 66ml replenisher before topping up to the line. Hope that helps.

[@demonidanzanti]

@@PictorialPlanet thanks so much John this is very helpful! Looking forward to getting the replenishment rolling! Have a great one :))

[@demonidanzanti]

Also, why do you mark the top level up after loosing some via the development process rather than the initial level used for the film?

[@PictorialPlanet]

@demonidanzanti the initial three films to season the developer reduces the amount in the bottle slightly. You are not replenishing yet so you don't replace this loss. As the developer seasons it is allowed to lower in volume slightly and adding replenisher at this point would cause an imbalance. Once seasoned however, you keep the (lower) level right so as to replace the exhausted developing agents etc.

[@demonidanzanti]

@@PictorialPlanet thanks for the insight on this alchemy 🙏

Hi John, thank you for sharing this precious tip, I want to give it a try, because I think I’ll not be able to buy D76 for a while 😅. The question is: so, does your D23 stay stable in the bottle with that air on the top unlike D76 for all that time? D76 should be kept in an air-free bottle for at most 6 months… is D23 more “durable” even with air? Thank you in advance!

[@PictorialPlanet]

Hi Paolo! Replenished D23 seems to last very well, better than regular D76. I've had it going well over a year with no problems. Of course, you can increase the life by using glass or PET bottles and squirting propane (lighter gas) in the top if the bottle after each replenishment. This heavy gas settles over the liquid and keeps oxygen away.

@@PictorialPlanet Great news! I’ll try and I’ll give you some feedback. Thank you so much!

[@PictorialPlanet]

You're very welcome, Paolo. I think you'll like it a lot.

[@dennisoconnor4949]

Hello John. Is all the developer you show in the bottle a diluted developer you have used to develop films? OR. Is it a stock solution to which you are adding the replenisher and the usd developer?

[@PictorialPlanet]

Hi Dennis. The D23 bottle is stock solution that I use on film and replenish with the replenisher. I just pour the amount of developer I need straight from that bottle , make sure it's at the right temperature and develop with it straight (no dilution). I ten add 22ml of replenisher into that bottle and top up to the line with the just used developer.

[@dennisoconnor4949]

@@PictorialPlanet Brilliant! Thank you for the prompt reply.

[@martinxu7252]

Is the quantity given (20g) for sodium metaborate for the anhydrous or the tetrahydrate?

[@PictorialPlanet]

Sodium metaborate tetrahydrate

[@aryah47]

This seems perfect for my circumstances, thank you! I have to prioritize economy of the chemicals and this seems maximally economical and all of these I either already have of can easily get (NaOH). Could one add a bit of (sodium/potassium) bromide to D23 to get similar results to a seasoned D23 from the start? I presume bromide buildup is the most relevant thing happening by seasoning. If so, roughly how much bromide gets deposited by a roll of film in the developer, order of magnitude? Also how would one replenish the first of a two bath d23 variant, like ben thorton's? Omitting borates from this recipe presumably as that's an accelerator so defeats the purpose? Prob no reason to control alkalinity either as no/minimal development and so no buildup of anything is happening in the first bath.

[@PictorialPlanet-]

I've answered one of your question in the video I just uploaded, hope you don't mind?

[@PictorialPlanet-]

I don't season Thornton's 2-bath. It works perfectly without ;-)

[@chanding]

Hi John, thanks for your wonderful videos! If I'm making up liquid sodium metaborate via Borax/Sodium hydroxide as per your other video, how would I best use that to make up 500 ml replenisher - should I simply make a larger quantity or should I adjust the quantities of the components? I ask because I'm not aware of the chemistry enough to understand the saturation limits for the water etc, thanks!

[@PictorialPlanet]

Try this: 1. Measure 50g of sodium sulphite and dissolve just a small pinch in 250ml of water at 52 degrees Celsius. 2. Add 5g of metol and dissolve. 3. In a separate 150ml of hot water dissolve 7g Borax, _allow to cool_, and dissolve 1.5g Sodium Hydroxide. When dissolved add to above. 4. Next, add the remaining sodium sulphite, and stir to dissolve. 5. Finally, add cold water to make 500ml.

[@chanding]

Thanks - you're admirable, I'll be ordering your book in coming future! 🙌

[@chanding]

​@@PictorialPlanethi there, I just noticed that the order for adding the chemicals here is different with the Sodium Sulphite after the metaborate, does that make any difference?

[@PictorialPlanet]

@chanding I add the sodium sulphite before the metaborate (at time 3:23)

[@PictorialPlanet]

This is fine and works well. We have to get the volume of water up so the sulphite will dissolve.

[@RogerHyam]

Hi John, Here is a very long comment/question ... I'm thinking of trying D23 replenisher but note that Sodium Metaborate isn't available in the UK/EU because of the discouragement of use of boron based compounds. They are thought to be a threat to reproductive health through bioaccumulation. Photographic use wouldn't bother me too much if I did get hold of some as I calculate that 25l of water would dilute the boron used to develop a single film to less than 4ppm i.e. sea water levels. By the time it reached the sewage plant it would undetectable. It's not like the old days when we all had a kilo of Borax under the kitchen sink for degreasing things! On the other hand I'd like to follow the spirit of the regulations and perhaps have a future proofed recipe to pass on. I'm considering using a sodium carbonate-bicarbonate buffer solution containing 11.50 g. sodium carbonate and 10.15 g. sodium bicarbonate per litre. A similar concentration would be had by using 20g of the "Borax substitute" (sodium sesquicarbonate) that is sold now. I think this would hold the pH around 9.9. But I'm no chemist. I believe the Sodium Metaborate was used because it didn't lead to blistering of films with production of CO2 but that might not be such an issue with modern films and when it is used in the replenisher, not in the main developer. Have you any thoughts? I might just have to try it and see if it works I guess.

[@PictorialPlanet]

Hi Roger and thanks for your comment. Sodium metaborate is available from Bellini chemicals as a 28% solution. Also from Germany as a solid (which I buy) from Fototechnik Suvatlar. See my website for suppliers.

[@RogerHyam]

​@@PictorialPlanet I note that FX-50 and other developers use a carbonate based buffers so took the plunge and made up a replenisher with a sodium carbonate-bicarbonate buffer solution (which I have in the cupboard). It has a pH of around 10. Proof is in tasting the pudding though! I'll see if it keeps my D23 stock active - but I'll have to work through quite a few films to find out. I'll run test strips occasionally and maybe write up the results if I find time. Water 750ml Metol 10g Sodium sulphite (anhydrous) 100g Sodium carbonate 10g (= 0.10M) Sodium bicarbonate 3g (= 0.03M) Water up to 1,000ml

[@PictorialPlanet]

@RogerHyam I'll be interested to know how you get on.

[@marcinstachyra9029]

Hi John. I'm about to make myself a replenisher for D23. I can't get the sodium metaborate (Kodalk) at my place. I've read on your site that I can replace it with Borax and Sodium Hydroxide (would be 7g + 3g respectively for 500ml of final product). Have you noticed any quality difference when using Kodalk vs the mentioned replacement? PS. Thank you for your generosity to share all that knowledge. I love your work. I'm into analog bw photography since like 2 months. I learn so much from watching and reading your stuff. My next stop is to match the Fomapan 400 film I use with my D23 and then find the right dev time. Fomapan400 is cheap at my place and I want to see how much I can squeeze out of it. Any opinion on FP400? All the best to you!

[@PictorialPlanet]

Hello Marcin. Sodium metaborate is a tough one to find these days but the replacement works very well. I haven't noticed any difference when using it. By the way, your replacement borax and hydroxide amounts of 7g and 3g are wrong. Check out my website, under D23 and Replenishment or my book for the correct replacement values. I do not use Foma film so I'm sorry I can't comment.

[@marcinstachyra9029]

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you so much for your response. Indeed that's 7g and 1.5g respectively. Well spotted :)

[@PictorialPlanet]

You're welcome Marcin. Yes, funny they don't add up to 10 but you know what chemistry's like.

[@robertharries2185]

John when I keep 25% of my d23 replenished developer do you make a litre of fresh d23 and just add 75% of the fresh d23 thanks

[@PictorialPlanet]

Hi Robert. I usually do but of course you could calculate making 75% (750ml) of chemistry if you wanted, it would make no difference.

[@robertharries2185]

@@PictorialPlanet Thanks John

[@robertharries2185]

Hi John about to make d23 and replenisher , do you pre-wash your film before developing thank you

[@PictorialPlanet]

Not usually Robert unless my developing tank is a little cold and then I pre-wash for a couple of minutes to get the temp up to 20c. But usually the temperature is ok and so I pour in the D23 and immediately agitate for 30 seconds and then for 5 seconds every 30 seconds.

[@robertharries2185]

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you John much appreciated

[@robertharries2185]

Hi John , when my d23 replenished developer is six months old can I still keep the 25% of old developer to add fresh d23 to the top up mark on my bottle thanks

[@PictorialPlanet]

Absolutely! It's hardly spent yet. My D23 replenished last a year before I make new. How many films have you put through it, Robert?

[@robertharries2185]

@@PictorialPlanet Thanks for your prompt reply, I’ve developed 12 films with the developer but as it is coming up to 6 months I thought I might mix fresh , but it looks if I can wait longer thank you

[@PictorialPlanet]

Yes, you should be fine for a while yet.

[@robertharries2185]

@@PictorialPlanet Thanks John 📷

[@donr8191]

Thanks !!

[@davyboyo]

Wondering if anyone has had a similar experience, my d-23 has developed a sort of precipitate, almost like a layer of white scummy something or other around the inside edge of the bottle. It looks like white fish food flakes once it separates from the bottle and I've filtered it only for it to reappear. I think my chems are fresh and correctly mixed and I have only allowed deionised water to come into contact with my developer. I am replenishing. I haven't worried about it previously but today it left a crust all along the edges of the film, primarily around the sprocket holes but some protruding into the image. It doesn't seem to want to come off the film at all. Weird!

[@PictorialPlanet]

Sounds like silver being deposited inside your bottle. I get the same but it doesn't break away like it sounds yours has. Filtering the developer into a new bottle should sort it. How many films have you replenished?

[@davyboyo]

@@PictorialPlanet I've replenished about six or seven times now from memory, although I'm not keeping strict records. I've realised the apparent damage to the film might actually just be due to it being the end of a bulk roll, and a well expired one at that. For what it's worth, pan f shows no change after a couple of decades expiry, from what I can tell 😎😍

[@PictorialPlanet]

Interesting about the PanF still being good after so long! I've always stayed away from expired film because if erratic results but this news might change that for PanF. That's not many replenishments so you might be right that it's the film not the developer. But filtering into a new bottle won't do any harm and will allow you to continue to improve the D23 with more use. Are you liking the results?

[@davyboyo]

@@PictorialPlanet I'm loving the results, the negatives have a very long, rich and subtle density range with just the right contrast. Shooting at about 32 iso, as I would with panf most of the time. 6:30 and using Kodak agitation. I've filtered the developer so it's clean now but I won't worry too much about deposits henceforth. I don't know how the film was stored before I picked it up a year ago, quite possibly cold stored or even frozen based on how perfect it is. Looking forward to seeing how you go with your panf. 😁

[@PictorialPlanet]

That's really useful info for everyone following this video so thank you for sharing, Dav. I've been busy doing tons of testing to really optimise my PanF results for the next videos. It's a beautiful film with its own character that I think could help photographers create their own great look. Ok,off to the darkroom now for more work on it :) Thanks again!