Dahmer, True Crime & Exploitation

[@nazchoz798]

UPDATE: Apologies, the audio quality of this video drops significantly between 11:34-13:57 due to a copyright claim that blocked the video worldwide. My options were to cut the section entirely or allow KZbin to "mute the music only" (which is why it sounds so awful). It's slightly jarring, but it's better than it being blocked I suppose!

[@anirudhbishoyi8263]

I've been consuming true crime content for a while now, and had never thought of it from this perspective. This was really enlightening and well made.

[@nazchoz798]

Thanks Anirudh, appreciate your comment, that's really nice to hear!

[@Luv2sing836]

Honestly, if they wanted to “explore the victim’s stories” in Dahmer, we should barely have seen Dahmer at all. The episodes should have followed the victims prior to the killings, their loved ones after the killings, and the people investigating the killings, maybe with a backdrop of the inequality and civil rights struggles that occurred during this time period, which illustrate why investigations into their deaths weren’t taken seriously at first. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have shown Dahmer at all, but they should have showed him sparingly, I.e. prior to meeting the victims, when he met the victims (maybe we’d see them meeting and entering his apartment together and then there’d be a fade to black; the nature of his crimes is well known that you’d know what was about to happen), when he became a suspect, when he was arrested and interrogated, and during the trial, but we shouldn’t have seen him hurting the victims; watching the detectives reacting with horror while the coroner read out the cause of death would have gotten the point that they died horrifically across just fine. I don’t know if that would have been all that much better viewing for the families of the victims because it would still force them to relive a horrible period of their lives, but at least then I could have taken the claim that they were trying to focus on the victims seriously.

[@claudettewright365]

I agree. If they really wanted to do that, they should’ve structured the whole series like episode 6.

[@ggggg77273]

But then the story wouldn't have been even remotely as interesting.

[@Luv2sing836]

Exploitation and gore are sure fire ways to keep a lot of people entertained, but I don’t think that lessens criticism of the show’s creators so much as it speaks ill of our society.

[@celestfinity3770]

​​@@ggggg77273 then it shows how exploitative this show is from the very beginning and liars they are for using the excuse "telling the victims stories".

[@AmyMarieJackson]

i love your insight into this, i've always felt so icky about this show and i can't believe so many people don't get it. imagine your loved one getting brutally murdered in the most humiliating way possible and then a huge corporation makes a film about it centred on the murderer, and then you have people treating it like a juicy drama for shock horror. i remember my mum texting me about it like "have you seen dahmer? it's so gory i had to look away" and while i know she didn't mean anything by it, it's disturbing to see something as real and heartbreaking as this be consumed as nothing more than a piece of horror entertainment. i know the claims that the show is focused on the victims is bullshit, why else call it "dahmer", why else cast evan peters, why else have the majority of the storyline be focused on HIM?

[@chopsuey004]

I was so repulsed by this show, only having watched it because a peer of mine wanted me to and I was just thinking through the whole show, “Was this necessary?” “Why did they have to show this?” Great video

[@PrincessTori51091]

I’ve long complained to anyone who will listen about the podcast name, My Favorite Murder. If that phrase came out of their mouths in private in regards to a murder they find particularly intriguing for whatever reason, that is bad enough. That they would double down on it by making a podcast out of it is reprehensible. Their “favorite murder” was a person, most importantly, and someone’s relative. Show some respect. We’re so entrenched in crime as entertainment because of the True Crime genre and the 24 hour news cycle that we’ve lost sight of the fact that these victims were real people, and more than likely, they still have relatives who are alive and grieving for them and don’t need to see sexy Dahmer cutting them up on TV.

[@adolfolerito6744]

The moment the directors of a movie or series say “we wanted to show systemic racism/homophobia” in order to give either prestige or the ethical high ground to their exploitation of REAL victims, I automatically loathe them.

[@ryriclan3425]

I'm a fan of true crime and I hadn't really considered the exploitative nature of it before, thank you. Your videos are high quality and thought-provoking, I'm sure you'll grow quick.

[@nazchoz798]

Very kind. Thank you.

[@brokenfoxproductions]

This is literally why my entire channel exists because I am the victim in the AOL 927 case, and I got really really sick of people exploiting the search results that were a result of my mom's boyfriend grooming me to try to get me to sleep with him whenever I was 11 years old, but unfortunately it's like one of the most common unsolved crime cases that doesn't have a known victim attached to it because thankfully my identity wasn't revealed when those search results were. I think that there are some true crime KZbinrs who definitely do work with the families and donate to charity and try to make it about helping people, if there are way too many more who literally just laugh and do their makeup and make fun of victims or in the case of what I went through they start speculating about like who could have made those search results and like someone made a fucking stage-play based on my childhood sexual abuse because of that becoming like a really popular topic on the internet. It's not fucking funny and those of us who've actually live through this shit don't find it funny to have people like Bailey sarian Just mocking us or even making fun of the people who did it to us. It's extremely re-traumatizing and it's extremely offensive and distasteful. Like seriously every single time I see someone who I used to respect post something about the AOL 97 case I talked about it and their comments and I mention that I want it taken down and they always just treat me like "sure, Jan, STFU" instead of understanding that I have literally had to talk to the FBI multiple times and had to be re-traumatized by an FBI agent because of this stuff. Stop gossiping about people's personal trama on the internet, people, just stop. A lot of the people were talked about in one of the subjects are talked about have real victims who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder or other mental health conditions because of their drama and it's not funny or okay to make it worse. And I apologize if the way that I made this comment seems a little rambly I use voice typing due to physical disabilities and I'm a little bit passionate and get very easily upset about this subject.

[@canniblanch]

Great video! you are underrated my guy! I love Mindhunter and I noticed without even having the victims be regular/main characters due to the nature of its format, it still manages to focus on them and the consequences of the crimes instead of the killers themselves (The whole arc about the Atlanta people's reactions to the child killer and William's arrest was so beautifully compelling and nuanced). The way they depict the criminals during the interviews are always so off putting and leaves you disgusted compared to the "sympathy" that Tumblr heartthrob Evan Peters elicits with the script's emphasis on his loneliness (as a supposed justification of his crimes). Why it works for Mindhunter is because the main characters, though heavily involved in the industry and thus its harrowing effects to their mental health and personal relationships, are ultimately NOT the criminals and therefore removes that default sympathy audiences have for POV characters away from the killers and places it onto normal people with their own problems and personalities for audiences to receive their catharsis from, unlike shows/movies like Dahmer and Bundy that allow that sympathy to grow for killers by placing them in the main POV. It's been a while since I've watched Mindhunter but doesn't it sometimes allow the criminals to show a sympathetic side (by acting polite and intelligent, or contextualizing their disposition as a result of loneliness or childhood abuse) like with Ed Kemper, but immediately recontextualizes or breaks down those behaviours, not allowing audiences to sow sympathy for them in the long run. After making Kemper look so put together and "harmless" in the interviews, they made sure to show how dangerous he actually is with his hospital scene with Ford. Like it's even telling you what a mistake it is to have even sympathised with him at all. I love that.

[@pr6549]

I hear that clockwork orange music I also hate that true crime turned serial killers into modern myths. I don't think Ted Bundy was charismatic and Im pretty sure that was a lie.

[@King-Koopa-Z]

I did enjoy Dahmer and true crime stuff in general, but I also enjoyed your video and totally agree with you.

[@nazchoz798]

Thanks! I appreciate the comment ✌

[@jeyjeyjk1857]

Underated Channel, keep up the good work bro 🔥

[@nazchoz798]

Thanks! Appreciate the kind words

[@consultingotter221b]

The Ted Bundy movie actually ruined my crush on Zac Efron because of the side by side pictures

[@katymbeke8400]

I’ll stick to Troy Bolton.

[@consultingotter221b]

@@katymbeke8400 I prefer Phillip Carlyle from the greatest showman but troy Bolton's cool too

[@Whos__winter]

very underrated youtuber tbh your quality of video is great

[@nazchoz798]

Thanks! Appreciate it 🙏

[@mariharrik5987]

I enjoy true crime but I understand there are real victims involved and people should be more careful and sympathetic to the victims, especially people who make true crime videos and I really like your video as well and I acknowledge some people in true crime can become shallow and toxic

[@mfyuq]

new sub!! love how this was made and very valid points were made!! looking forward to more of your content

[@nazchoz798]

Thanks! Appreciate it 🙏

[@sonicinajarvauntedspeciali7245]

I really liked the dahmer series despite all the hate. Unfortunately they didn't talk to a lot of the victims before recreating the horrific events... I find THAT disgusting

[@Martinmd12-zt7vu]

Great video. I have a question though. Do you think there is any merit to documentaries on this subject? My thinking is that it could help us understand serial killers so that we can learn how to do better as a society and don’t let history repeat itself. It could also help people avoid life or death situations and what to look out for. I’m interested to know what you think.

[@CoreyMS23]

Great video, completely agree with your thoughts too!

[@nazchoz798]

Thanks Corey, see you in another 8 months!

[@Imjustloco]

Great work, Joe!

[@panqueque445]

Netflix knows what people want with true crime. Most people only care about the spectacle of the murders. True crime content creators can add as many "respect to the victims, we don't glorify the murders" disclaimers as they want, but they know what they're doing. They know what people want. As good as Mind Hunter is, if true crime as a whole, not just big budget productions, were like that, it wouldn't be as big as it is now. Let's be honest, most people don't give a shit about hearing the victim's side of the story. They just want to hear what the serial killers did and how they got away with it. No one cares about the lives' of the women Jack the Ripper killed, they wanna hear how he gutted them and see the crime scene photos. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just what it is.

[@nazchoz798]

The fact that Mindhunter is in a constant state of limbo due to budget disputes with Netflix (they cannot justify giving it the necessary money as it wasn't a smash hit with true crime fans in the same way Dahmer was) certainly supports this. I should have thought to include that point in the video, actually. Thanks for watching!

[@panqueque445]

@@nazchoz798 I also think it's very telling how in the Dahmer show, the only victim whose side of the story we hear is the deaf dude. Because they knew his story had potential to be more gut wrenching, simply because he was deaf and decided not to let his disability keep him from living his life to the fullest. Which is also why I suspect they decided to exaggerate their relationship in the show. Now he's not just another victim, he's the deaf victim who almost managed to "save" Jeffrey by becoming his boyfriend. Which is really disgusting to do, but it sells and they know it. I love Mind Hunter, but it simply doesn't have the mass appeal that Dahmer has. As much as I would love to have true crime be more centered around investigation and psychology, like Mind Hunter is, that's just not what most people want, it seems. Even on KZbin, the most popular true crime videos are the ones that go into unnecessary detail for the crimes. And don't even get me started on the ones that put "uncensored versions" up on their Patreon because they know people will pay just to see the crime scene photos they can't show here. I always had this feeling about true crime. That everyone was in it for the gore and just pretended to care about the victims. Especially every time they claimed "I'm just making this video to spread awareness". Awareness of what? A serial killer who died 20 years ago? Yeah, right. The way this show blew up confirms what I suspected.

[@claudettewright365]

@@panqueque445xactly. I saw a post on Reddit the other day that explained the whole backstory behind the Sinthasomphone family, and MAN, do I wish the Dahmer Netflix show went into that. It’s honestly an incredible backstory filled with resilience and hope for a better life (and obviously the tragedies for Somsack and Konerak). The show showed none of that (i.e. what brought them to America and the extremely courageous journey to get there, Konerak’s hobbies and dreams, etc.) If Ryan Murphy really wanted to make a show about the victims, they would’ve structured the entire series like episode 6 with Tony Hughes. Based on what I know now about the Sinthasomphone’s backstory, if they really wanted to, they could’ve easily done that because there was more than enough material to work with. But, they didn’t. I do think at some points, you can’t avoid telling at least some of the killer’s backstory because in a sense, the family of the killer are victims in their own right. But, more of that than what was shown should’ve been focused on his family’s POV, instead of Jeffrey’s. Yes, I know there was a whole episode that focused on Lionel, but based on my own research, that barely scratched the surface. They also never really showed the really problematic dynamics in that whole family.

[@ennuiblue4295]

​@@claudettewright365 that is so eloquently stated and a very good point. If they *TRULY* wanted to tell the victim's stories, they could have made an episode about each one, their struggles and hopes, and Dahmer as the 'side character' who cuts their lives short 😒

[@alannamichellebova]

Great video!

[@petergriffin355]

I’ve felt this same way. The only things I like that are true crime, is mindhunter and zodiac.

[@sofiahannah212]

Really incredible video

[@nazchoz798]

Appreciate the kind words!

[@dolomitilino9015]

Where the Oncler became Tumblr’s peak sexy man, Dahmer is peak Twitter Sexyman

[@lavaghoul]

Bailey Sarian is a freak lmfao

[@areeba7045]

how do u not have more subscribers wtf

[@WeyounSix]

I saw this coming with so many white girls 10 years ago developing these huge "crushes" on serial killers talking about how deep they are. They're not deep, they're sick.

[@wheresmyeyebrow1608]

Love the video(s) bro!

[@nazchoz798]

Thanks! Appreciate it :)

[@WeyounSix]

I think Boukreev has a misleading double E. I think if you treat it as two independent Es you get much closer to what I would imagine his name would actually be. "Book-ray-ef"

[@jayle1084]

HARD AGREE!!!

[@honeyballest1626]

Evan peters deserved the golden globe

[@nazchoz798]

Always a pleasure to see people engage in a thoughtful manner!

[@denisejackson4866]

You clearly 1. Weren't alive during the Dahmer murders and 2 didn't actually watch it. We all knew what he had done, we all knew why it took so long to stop him. Dahmer told the police very matter of factly why and what he did. The show didn't show all of the violence. The show was written from direct interviews, court videos, testimony and was not misrepresented. I felt sorry for the victims after watching it. I feel like it made them more real.

[@nazchoz798]

This is a lot of writing that doesn't really address/rebut anything I said in the video! I feel compelled to respond though (since I was alive when you wrote it)

[@King-Koopa-Z]

@@nazchoz798 Well said.

[@dayanajagpat9976]

But the victims families didn't like it