Dahmer, True Crime Youtube and The Ethics of Monetizing Tragedy

[@KristinaMaione]

Offset your carbon footprint on Wren: www.wren.co/start/kristinamaione The first 100 people who sign up will have 10 extra trees planted in their name!

[@sue2704]

As someone who has lost a family member to murder, I've seen multiple people cover her death but there was this one podcast that I decided to watch because I just wanted to see the difference in in knowledge. I watched it expecting to have at least 15 minutes be dedicated to her murder. They talked about the Mandolorian (that one star wars show) for over 45 minutes. They joked about my family member's death and tried to create a conspiracy theory. I felt so disrespected for her. They didn't even try to handle it lightly and it really hurt. So genuinely Thank you for this video it made me feel like my emotions were justified in a way

[@Amy-oo7mm]

I understand that this is probably rather hollow coming from a stranger on the internet, but I'm very sorry for your loss.

[@KristinaMaione]

First of all, I am so sorry for your loss. Second of all, I am so sorry that people out there treated the case with anything less than respect. That’s truly awful, your feelings are 100% valid and I can’t imagine what that felt like to have to listen to that. Sending you lots of love💜💜

[@persassyjackson1688]

I... Fucking hell, I'm so sorry... That's beyond fucking abhorrent. You are ABSOLUTELY valid feeling those feelings when there are sickening, scummy welts capitalising on such a devastating and personal tragedy. I'm so sorry.

[@ricaramos9631]

This is what's so disgusting about some of these true crime podcast/shows. If you don't mind, may we know what podcast this is? So we can stop supporting them (if we happen to)

[@sue2704]

@@ricaramos9631 You probably won't know this podcast bc they are local to my state but it's Paint the Town Dead with Andrew and Caitlin. They have all their comments turned off so I can't even tell if people have the same problems with them that I do, which sucks but I'm glad I could at least say my peace here.

[@GRAHFXENO]

Me (After watching Dahmer): "What a monster. I'm glad they focused on the systemic racism and the troubles his neighbour had having the cops take her seriously. Such an eye opening docudrama. I remember all of this unfolding on the news when I was the age of his average victim. Being a queer kid made it all the more tragic" 20 y/o women on Twitter: "OMG, Dahmer is like totes buff and low-key sexy, y'all. He's like, into Jesus too. I simp his hot ass 😙"

[@leiannamarie1655]

I find it funny how Evan Peters plays so many more roles but people are focusing on him being "hot" while playing Jeffery. I think he is attractive, but I would NEVER say that an actual serial killer is hot. It's honestly sick how people sexual these types of things.

[@lydiaboll2872]

Plus, Dahmer was gay himself, he’d never be into any of the women sexualizing him.

[@lilbri2358]

Not a fan of Netflix versions! I prefer podcast focusing on helping the actual families affected by it! Real fans of true crime I think really wanna help and be able to say we helped to solve a crime! 😞

[@lilbri2358]

We love stevie!! 😍😍😍

[@Noname-gm9yb]

U should be a fan of Netflix’s versions

[@DumiNihi]

@@Noname-gm9yb why??

[@Noname-gm9yb]

@@DumiNihi cuz da shit was fire 🔥

[@Brownieizfaded]

Why not just let the victims rest? Why do we have to tell every single true crime story? There is no "respecting the victims families" unless the victims families were asked and gave the okay. I don't like this idea that most true crime is good and ethical. You are hurting others for your own gain. It's like eating fish. You have to actually research if your fish is being sustained ethically. I disagree that "real" true crime fans really want to help. Yes, there's a minority that does research on if their true crime is ethical, but the majority don't. I think the solutions are a) get the victims families approval and research if your media is ethical and b) tell more fictional stories if you want to educate.

[@marcjsolis]

The mother of my sister’s friend went to high school with Jeffery Dahmer. I actually had Jeffery Dahmer’s chemistry teacher in high school. He said he was a good kid, but when you looked at him you could tell something was just…off.

[@BB1990x]

I always felt so much guilt finding true crime and the macabre to be soothing, but now I know it is just because I was severely neglected and had a chaotic childhood.

[@KristinaMaione]

I’m sorry you went through that love❤️ true crime can be soothing and comforting to those who have experienced trauma so it’s super understandable, don’t beat yourself up for it!

[@aimeesmiles9400]

What's insane to me is that you'll have family members go "please do not make a movie/tv show about my kids death" and the next thing you know an entire network + crew + a cast of actors is on set ready to go and dramatize their loved-ones tragic demise. Do these people have no shame?

[@wylier]

The mini series ended with a photo memorial of Dahmer's victims. It seemed like an attempt to honor them rather then exploit them.

[@misssfortunee]

Criminology student here, just wanted to say you covered this topic really well. I’m especially glad that you ask for the humanization in criminal cases being covered. It reminded me of something that one of my professors (a former attorney) stated that stuck with me: criminal justice, while a social science, can easily be seen as a subject within the field of humanities. you’re dealing with a lot people with every case you’re looking at. Decisions you make or the actions you take can impact the outcome of the case, which effects everyone involved. Of course, this isn’t a courtroom, but this is a lesson that each of us can take as well (that being treating these true crime cases with extreme care), especially those producing crime content for the consumption of others.

[@wesleyfarrell6572]

IMO concerning Stephanie her videos are not and should not be considered as a main source of information for a crime case, they simply are for bringing some light into cases no one has probably heard about. She always references documentaries, books, articles ,etc.I watched her videos for years she always emphasizes the severity of the situation and puts disclaimer in place. I often feel that she does treat the victims with respect, by highlighting very positive aspects of them. She talks about their achievements, personality, work ethic, smile, kindness and more. I think the mukbang part is how she feels comfortable discussing the cases. The tone in which she presents her videos i find light hearted , conversational but always respectful.

[@madhat.]

Yea I agree, and most of her more gruesome ones are on her podcast. She has been doing it for years but still shes just simply covering her cases and not doing deep dives. It’s give just shunting light on it. But I do agree with Kristina that true crime should not be cushioned and be a light topic.

[@martawroblewska7703]

I agree🙌🏻 Stephanie is in my opinion amazing, she covers true crime well and treats the victims with respect. It’s sad that Kristina didn’t look into the people she bashed hate on.

[@madhat.]

I’ve watched Stephanie for years. I do think that her videos does cushion the crime and make it more consumable and yes it shouldn’t be like this. I think the reason why she does this is because she can’t talk about these crimes without being very very anxious so she has to eat while doing this. She wants to shine light on topics, and for the heavier ones she does on her podcast and it’s much more serious. I really do think she’s not doing this for entertainment as priority. Because of her I learnt a lot more about crimes and more sensitive to crimes and to my daily life. She shows respect to the victim’s family and also emphasised how the police or anyone involved let the crime slide. She covered “unsolved cases” but it’s actually the law protecting the criminal, families and systems that protected the criminal. She taught me a lot and I never really saw it as entertainment. But I really do agree with Kristina about not cushioning a crime, we should feel for the family. Thanks for the video King!! ❤️

[@aimeelandry3453]

Yes I agree, I’ve also noticed but I could be wrong that, she doesn’t talk about true crime while eating anymore, but she does when she’s talking about spooky stories and not real tragedies.

[@madhat.]

@@aimeelandry3453 mmhmm talks about it less. And more on her podcast. Which is a great change I think as the podcast is more serious and people can really learn about the crime

[@graeson3317]

I'm not making excuses for her behavior more trying to make sense of it. She went through trauma so maybe she wants to cover it but food is a comfort so she essentially self soothes by eating. I in no way think that behavior is ok but it would make sense

[@vidsbym]

hello kristina! i’m a true crime girl myself, and i watch videos like bailey’s because of my curiosity. although my nosy ass listens to true crime videos a lot, i do find your video very eye opening and so insightful. i see why it’s not okay to profit off of other people’s trauma and abuse and its refreshing to hear other perspectives in regards to this. i learn so much from you. love you lots! happy halloween ❤️‍🔥🫶

[@brookeh208]

Related note: There was a pizza place that made a Dahamer pizza for a Halloween display. There is often a lack of empathy for victims especially black victims.

[@londxngrace4415]

I agree so much with this video. I used to love true crime, but I stopped watching because cases would either make me realize I’m desensitized to these things or that they upset me a lot. ASMR true crime is insane man. People just don’t think about the ethics of what they’re doing half the time.

[@wadnold123]

As a true crime fan and someone who has been watching Stephanie’s mukbangs for a while, I now understand the harm it causes to the victims/victims families and I will now be very conscious of how I watch true crime content. I never thought about the monetization aspect but it is very messed up how random people not connected to the cases get money off of the said cases instead of the victims and their families. Like that alone needs to be one of the main focuses of true crime. Supporting the people still alive today who are still living with these cases. Thank you for making this video and I hope more people can shift true crime into a better direction.

[@Kanakdev99]

Thats why i like Mr Ballen true crime. He also does lots of cold cases and the imp part is he tells the story from victim side not the serial killer. The story gives more insight of the victim than glorifying the murderer. He also donates a part of the income to the victim family and overall does good investigation on these incidents.

[@adamalberts6175]

My problem with the Dahmer series was that they sometimes seemed to make you feel bad for Jeff. (Yeah, he had a shit life, but that's not what I mean) He came off as a shy guy who just wanted a friend. Don't get me wrong!!! They still portrayed him as a horrible monster, but take the first killing, for instance-- they totally left out the sexual motive. They left out that he immediately masturbated over the victim after hitting him over the head with a barbell. In the episode, they made it look like he really regretted it. He even CRIED.

[@devonmunn5728]

I don't plan to watch the show. The families have been outspoken in not wanting this made. Sure Ryan Murphy did try to contact the families and none responded but I wouldn't make something like that with no input from the families. Plus there's already enough material on him and other well known serial killers. Someone I follow has said in their view that true crime needs to die and while I obviously have complicated feelings about that statement due to my history with the genre I can see where they're coming from

[@miranda4996]

Regrettably I sometimes found myself feeling bad for him until I remembered who he was and why the docuseries exists. Maybe that was the goal. I’m not sure.

[@bonelesschickenwings]

Im so glad you’re covering this. I got into a huge true crime kick after my dad passed away. I think i was struggling a lot with understanding death. My dad died of an overdose. So his death tore my family apart. My mom tried to cover up their addictions so his death was shrouded in secrets. I watched true crime to channel that pain and curiosity into any death other than my fathers. I became really disgusted in how certain people handled the topics. The only people I’ve grown to trust handling these topics are Kendall Rae and crime weekly podcast with Stephanie Harlow.

[@tcl09110]

I also watch a lot of true crime, I think Eleanor Neale does a wonderful job of explaining the cases without romanticizing it or joking about it. If you haven’t checked her out, you should!

[@pascacristina6173]

I wrote my thesis for my Bachelor's on how media portrays people like Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy and how they capitalize and display more of this kind of harmful behavior. Like, it's mindblowing how some people are glamorizing horrible people and their actions.

[@sierrabrady2795]

So happy you shouted out Kendall Rae!! She’s been one of my favorites for a while.

[@thechromasystem7476]

Best way to spend a night, with a new Kristina video

[@tte8894]

its even worse when people are dressing up as Jeffery D. during halloween.

[@veronicaquiros7482]

Thank you for educating queen. Personally I consumed a lot of non ethical true crime. I really appreciate you bringing this up and calling us out

[@megan5786]

Check out Bailey Sarina’s dark history podcast. It is super informative and still interesting. She talks about Japanese concentration camps to the origins of birth control

[@martawroblewska7703]

🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@vickyisthicciana]

Honestly Bailey Sarian is iconic 💅🏻

[@miranda4996]

Bailey’s dark history stuff is I feel more her style. Her dark humor fits it more. Sometimes I would find her true crime videos disrespectful because of some jokes she’d make.

[@delidonadona8004]

When they don’t research properly, the whole story goes upside down. The shorter it is the more twisted it becomes. If you can’t do it right just don’t do it at all

[@valerieysabel123]

I’ve also heard so many people say ‘eh this wasn’t gruesome enough’ like they want a slasher type series. When I pointed out that there are people alive that LIVED this they didn’t care cause they wanted sensation… that just rubbed me the wrong way so badly omfg

[@laurencarlson1235]

I really like Hailey Elizabeth because I think she has learned a lot about how to create content ethically. She used to do makeup while doing true crime for “visual stimulation” to make people pay attention to the stories. However, once she realized that it was disrespectful (she’s only like 19), she completely shifted away from it. She also emphasizes the importance of honoring victims and spends about 2/3 of the episode solely on the victim ❤

[@orangeworm]

I was one of her early subscribers, but I stopped watching her for awhile because something just rubbed me the wrong way. I guess I should check her out again.

[@miranda4996]

She is very very inaccurate with the information. I have a totally opposite opinion of her. Which is fine! You’re allowed to feel the way you feel about her. It’s fine. I just personally find her uncomfortable to watch. The information in her videos is inaccurate and she is always mispronouncing names. I also feel like she is one of those people who clearly shifted to true crime because of the popularity that comes with it. She used to do pop culture commentary which I loved. But since she switched her content to true crime it rubbed me the wrong way since she seemed to do that right when it was becoming popular on TikTok and stuff.

[@laurencarlson1235]

@@miranda4996 dang,, that was something i def didn't know. it makes me really sad to hear that she's inaccurate. I did notice in her video about Omaima Nelson that she had information about FGM wrong, but I had no idea it was a pattern. I just kind of like how victim-centric her videos have become recently, but I really appreciate you letting me know about the mistakes in her work. I want to consume true crime as ethically as possible to accurately portray the lives of the victim. Thanks for letting me know

[@bridgetcaton2881]

I personally don't like how light hearted Hailey is in her videos.. idk. The only true crime KZbinr I watch is Elenor Neale. (idk if I spelled her name right) I like her because I feel she is very sympathetic and gives the information in a very respectful and informational way

[@lydiaboll2872]

@@bridgetcaton2881I stick to Boze vs The World these days.

[@sydneym-y]

Eleanor Neale is a really good tituber to watch for true crime she also makes a desclaimer about what will be mentioned and she always emphasizes the family and the horror of the persons actions. She also talks a lot about cases from the UK because that’s where she’s from

[@jordankerr6609]

I liked how the Dahmer series used Glenda and focused in on her experience. It’s interesting because she wasn’t actually Jeffrey’s neighbour, she lived in the neighbouring apartment building.

[@justthetruth3950]

She spoke against the series tho

[@marissar30]

I thought it was an interesting topic. Me myself who is not a true crime person, but I thought this video was educational. I learned what mukbang was today. 😅

[@hologr4mgf]

mukbangs kinda nasty tbh

[@KristinaMaione]

Hahaha I’m glad I could introduce you to the art of mukbang I’m sorry it had to be in this context tho lol

[@iMelSchwolow]

I just have to say, I'm loving the semi regular uploads lately! I hope you're doing well. ❤️

[@BNL07604]

Obviously, sound fixed! And I just wanna add that I do watch true crime for the catharsis, but I really try to consume stuff that is ethical. So I just wanna recommend 2 people I think are worth watching if anyone's interested: Eleanor Neale and Brooke Makenna. They both seem to research/take the cases seriously and make it about the victims; they will also occasionally ask viewers to sign petitions for certain cases and victims. Oh, and also Disturban. They're all wonderful and, if you want, check 'em out.

[@adriameadvin6466]

Eleanor is so respectful and always takes TIME to research, never turns it into a joke, as she should. i enjoy watching eleanor

[@danapierce4951]

Eleanor is like one of the only people I watch.

[@devonmunn5728]

I've actually seen people criticize her. From what I remember people have kept commenting on something and she doesn't seem to care to take it into consideration so I unsubbed plus I wasn't watching her much anyway. If anyone asks I'll try to find the video cause I didn't watch it but I did read the comments

[@JohnDRuddyMannyMan]

Great video. The irony though right as you’re talking about content creators having merch with profits only going to them and an ad break pops up right in the middle of it.

[@kirstenstewart5758]

I’ve just discovered your channel, thanks Barbie 😂 and want to thank you for this thoughtful video. True crime has always felt like a shameful vice and I had not linked it to my trauma. I have never understood the need I have to watch or listen to these stories, particularly the ones involving SA where my trauma was born. You have helped me understand this about myself and at 54 I’m so glad I’m still learning. The whole issue has been particularly difficult in the last few years after I met and became close friends with someone who lost their mother to murder at the hands of her sister. Recently there was a vile incident where a real estate post was posted on Facebook advertising a house for rent where this murder took place. Knowing my friend and what she has been through I was appalled by the post itself, nothing could have prepared me for the comments!! Seeing behind the curtain, if you will, you f true crime and watching my friend’s suffering at the hands of a bunch of online ghouls has upped the guilt I have had. Again, thanks!

[@bellaparkes1749]

baileys video is nothing about the makeup, is just so she has something to do while she tells the story

[@issiep327]

I love your videos they’re always so well thought out and insightful!

[@garycpriestley]

Great topic. Such a voyeuristic concept and worth some self-reflection noting how we "consume" entertainment. The wider issue of how MSM skims across complex issues for clicks is part of the wider problem too. Good stuff 👍👏

[@diobrando6949]

Personally I like true crime and and watch documentaries and/or KZbinrs who talk about it since I am a Forensics student, however I do agree. People should really watch out for these people who just profit off deaths and or use Jeffrey Dahmer (and many other serial killers and psychos) for profit.

[@nicocurtis2632]

I think your points and perspective on this topic is very insightful and eye opening for true crime consumers or those just learning about true crime. I think being respectful towards the victims and fully acknowledging that these even are real, they have impacted real lives and the pain caused by these events never fully goes away is important to consider and to put in place when creating or consuming true crime content

[@mylife-23]

In defense of multitasking when talking about true crime, it's more engaging. I garentee if nobody did anything else accept talking I'd lose interest because my ADHD. When watching true crime on tv I'm constantly on my phone glancing back & forth because it's just talking. True crime doesn't make me feel anything. Ik it's all sad and horrible but I react to death differently, not because of watching cop shows or true crime, it's because my brain just processes things differently. Ever since I was a kid I had a huge interest in psychology and studying ppl & figuring out how others think or why they do what they do. If something is styled like a college class I won't pay any attention my mind would just stop caring and go to something that's fully stimulating like texting.

[@sarahdelaneyy]

I used to watch a lot of true crime KZbinrs but after a while I realized a lot of them were being disrespectful to victims and their families so now the only person I watch is Kendall Rae because I love that reaches out to the families and allows them to speak in her videos. She truly is the most respectful true crime KZbinr on the platform and is actively trying to help rather than just tell stories which is what a lot of true crime has turned into. She’s one of the only people I trust when they say “proceeds go to the family” I absolutely love her and how kind she is. I think we could all use more influencers like her that truly do care about the topics they speak on. Similar to you when it comes to politics, I trust you as a source because you’re well spoken and you have factual evidence that you provide, vs other people just making jokes about conservatives. That doesn’t help anyone but you have given me so much information that I’ve researched outside of your videos and it’s helped me form my own coherent thoughts about shit. Idk it’s hard to find that fine line of what is and isn’t okay but once you find it it’s hard to ignore and go back to the same stuff. Random example, I loved Shane Dawson as I was growing up, met him twice, and when shit started coming out about him it made me sad, but now I can’t watch his videos or see his face without feeling icky. I saw the line he crossed and it has forever changed his content, much like with a lot of true crime youtubers

[@GinaBlythe]

I remember the Dahmer story on the news in the early 90s. There weren't a lot of details then, but enough was given that I will never watch anything about him. Same with Bundy, Gacy, BTK, Zodiac, etc. Unless it is a documentary that has the approval of the families. It is sickening that people forget that these were real people. I remember the UF killings in 1990 (lived two hours away) and only watched 1 documentary on that and it was how they found the killer. I don't understand the fascination with serial killers as "gods".

[@melissadean6874]

I'm just wondering if you reached out to these other youtubers that you brought up. Bailey Sarian for instance, talks a lot about cases no one ever knew about or cold cases. Of course she's done the story of Jeffrey Dahmer, but I think it might be interesting to see their side.

[@megan5786]

I agree 100%

[@krscartwright4951]

I think people have more of an issue wuth how it's covered vs it being covered at all. There's countless examples of people who were family members of the person who's deceased and have issues with the way someone covered the story, has been retraumatized by how its handled, or even just wanting to correct misinformation and simply can't because they're either bullied off the page ny the creators fans or can't get the creator to respond. There's just a lot of ethical arguments to be made, regardless of intent or "their side" or even peoples plain curiosity. I think instead of being so quick to defend a content creator because we like them and what they do, a larger conversation can be had and there's a huge opportunity for us to sit back and contemplate about it

[@devonmunn5728]

I personally don't watch Bailey Sarian because I have heard too many negative things about her

[@theblackkittie13]

I used to watch her content but couldn't continue, it feels like gossip and exaggerated nonsense. Like, gasp and, oh my god, and can you believe that?!? These are people's lives that have been viciously cut short, not an episode of some bloomin' soap opera

[@earth2kira]

@@theblackkittie13 i was never a subscriber but i watched a few of her videos and i was so turned off by that. i was already weirded out by her making videos on such horrific cases while doing her makeup, but the way she talked about them was what really grossed me out. just disrespectful and not handled with very much care, in my eyes

[@thetonytaye]

So… genuine and perhaps controversial question: is it unethical to empathize/sympathize with killers? Like knowing that they’re shitty people but also having listened to their life stories and feeling bad for some of the things they went through earlier in life?

[@gracedicken8708]

I don’t think so. It is natural to empathize and sympathize with people. You can look at a killer who was abused horribly in his/her childhood but still not let that cloud your judgement of them. It is a natural reaction to feel bad for people and as long as you don’t allow it to be an excuse for their actions and don’t begin to view them as a poor victim instead of a killer and criminal, I don’t think it is wrong in any sense

[@truecrimelover2022]

my dad was violent i have empathy for the things that happened to him as a child but none for the things he did to me or that i witnessed so i think it depends on what part you feel empathy for and also if you think it excuses their horrible behavior

[@mcsmaria28]

IDK…. It’s a tough question. I think Dahmer had a lot of problems and difficulties, especially with alcohol I think… But, there are lots of people on similar circumstances who aren’t pieces of shit like Dahmer. That’s where my sympathy goes out the window.

[@Amy-oo7mm]

I can't remember exactly when I lost even the morbid curiosity regarding true crime, just that it was before I graduated high school. I find the idea of anything that turns real deaths into entertainment nauseating. To be clear: I agree with you about not passing judgment on people who do consume such media. I just get so overwhelmed by sympathy for those left behind that I can't understand how anyone can enjoy it.

[@lesvaguesetlesheures]

Absolutamente de acuerdo contigo! En estos tiempos tan violentos en los que vivimos, instalar esta banalización del morbo y del crimen es cuánto menos bien preocupante.

[@justthetruth3950]

Exacto

[@justtheeditingtip2131]

i remember in high school, i got really into watching true crime docuseries/shows. but then i was watching one day and i recognized the parents of a young girl who was killed, and realized it was my friend's older sister who was murdered like eight years before. it completely changed my worldview because, as awful as it sounds, i hadn't seen them as actual PEOPLE, more like they were characters. it was a really sobering experience and completely changed my view of shows like that and, because i was a stupid kid, i asked her about it at school the next day. she told me that the forensic file people were really nice and they took her to get ice cream while they were interviewing her parents for the show. i wish now that i hadn't asked, because i'm sure it brought up horrible memories. it's one of my biggest regrets

[@k.yleenicole]

Im a true crime girlie, but i did not watch Dahmer nor do i really watch the netflix docuseries. I watch mainly documentaries (i know its not any better than tv shows) i personally dont like tv shows based on crime events because they arent always factual. I also mainly watch documentaries because the psychology of it is a very fascinating topic. I also watched forensic files growing up, knowing the process of how everything was done in the investigations were so interesting to me. I used to watch stephanie soo when i was maybe 14 but stopped when i realized it was taking a toll on my health. I dont revolve my whole life around true crime, every month i will choose a documentary (or even trials) to watch, just so i can take breaks from them but while also learning from them. In october, i was watching the Darrell Brooks v wisconsin trial. Next month im going to be watching a documentary on Diane Downs. I feel like 12 documentaries/current trials a year is reasonable 😂❤

[@kyriross5145]

I used to be a total true crime junkie until I came across the show about my close family friend who was pretty brutally murdered. They made a PUN in the name of her episode. It just crushed me to see what they reduced her life to. I realized all at once how exploitative true crime is. I quit cold turkey.

[@nairobicataluna]

My mom likes stuff like Forensic Files, Investigation Discovery and even stuff like Mayday. Because of this I grew up with that since I also enjoyed watching them to see how the muder was solved etc My mom and I noticed the Jeffrey Dahmer thing on Netflix and we were like "Let's give it a try." It was okay t'ill it got to his teenhood and adulthood and idk about my mom (since she was doing other stuff while it played on the background and wasn't really paying much attention to it) but I was so like disturbed by it, I think it's cause my heart was giving sympathy as if it was a fictional character who just so happens to be a murder but my brain then snapped me back and I realized "wtf this is a real person who killed real people" and I just couldn't watch it anymore. My mom end up getting bored of it cause what my mom likes is seen the investigation on how they get to finding out who did and hearing the victims and/or the family members and since it had none of that she stopped watching. We stopped watching it at like episode 2-4 I think?

[@Bubba.mitchell4603]

I’ve been a true crime consumer since high school, at least 4-5 years. And never in my time have I ever heard of ASMR or Mukbang true crime, that’s too much. I don’t get disturbed by makeup and true crime because it’s more of a two birds one stone and it doesn’t feel wrong, or watered down.

[@ElleDiablo]

Unrelated but Kristina has the most gorgeous eyes. She legit looks like a Disney Princess🥺

[@truecrimelover2022]

i love danelle hallan she does a lot of cases of indigenous and poc and always shows lots of respects she does a lot of unsolved crimes or sometimes why tf did they not prosecute the person that they know for a fact did it and have tons of evidence to try and put pressure on them to prosecute the slime that did it

[@miranda4996]

Absolutely love Danelle.

[@Conor_Lyons]

Slayyyy Kristina!!! Also love how you mentioned Ohio it’s crazy there.

[@Steifmaister]

Sound is back, great. This video was also great, i was for a while thinking about watching the dahmer series, cus im curious about what happened. But having listening to this video made me think a Little and now i think ill try find a documentary to watch instead. Ive been a bit worried about you, Kristina, thinking whether or not you're okey, at the same time i ofcourse understood you've had your life to think about and other stuff (editing videos among them). But its good to se you again on KZbin editing videos, it helps a bit the next time one might be concerned about you that you're back at it again doing what you're good at and your talent is being expressed and used. Keep it up, hope to see you soon 😊

[@mathildeb2710]

I love Kendall Rae she and Mile Higher are my favorite!!! Also LOVE Swoop and how she does her docs. I totally agree withyou - I didn't even watch the Dahmer show out of respect for the families as they did not approve of it being made. Thanks for covering this sensitive topic, needed to be said! We have completely commercialized true crime and we need to remember it is SERIOUS... as Swoop says.. "it's not Drama, it's Dangerous". Love you Kristina!!!

[@marcjsolis]

I think you points for “ethical true crime” are fair and valid. However, how do you judge when enough time has passed? I largely agree with the point but how much time is enough time? Different people move at different rates. These killings all happened well over thirty years ago and it re-traumatized these people. Thirty years is a rather long time. A lot changes in three decades. This was a major event that happened. If we can’t talk about it now because it still traumatizes the unfortunate families, how long is long enough? Are we supposed to wait until these family members die as well in forty-seventy years?

[@devonmunn5728]

It is a bit complicated to talk about when to talk about it if at all

[@marcjsolis]

@@devonmunn5728 right and that’s my point. Things like this and the Holocaust are going to be difficult to talk about even after some time passes, making it hard to judge how much time is enough.

[@werearewolves]

Usually asking for consent from the family is the best tell. If one family doesn’t want to be talked about just mention the name but not the details and move on.

[@miranda4996]

I have been watching true crime on KZbin since I was in 6th grade. I am now a freshman in college, so I feel like I’ve had my fair share of true crime viewing and knowing what KZbinrs do a good job at it and which others make me uncomfortable. I’m so glad you mentioned Kendall. I’ve watched her for years and she is absolutely phenomenal. Another KZbinr I respect is Danelle Hallan. She also has a lot of fundraisers and focuses on cold cases, specifically having a focus on cold case murders against Native American women since it is such a huge under-covered issue. Danielle Kirsty, although she does makeup during her videos, covers crimes with a lot of empathy and respect, and she has a degree in criminal justice and law. She hasn’t been around for long but I believe she’s done a fundraiser or two. They’re the only 3 I watch and continue to watch because of their initiatives and the research they put into their content. As for KZbinrs I do NOT like, I have quite a few. Hailey Elizabeth was a pop culture commentator who focused on KZbin scandals and TikTok scandals. I believe she began doing true crime content after making a video on the Lopez brothers and how they’re pedophiles. It is very obvious that she only switched to true crime because of the monetary value that comes with it. Her videos are extremely underresearched and a lot of her facts are wrong. I just don’t like her vibe either. Additionally, Kendall Rae and her husband Josh have a podcast that they talk about conspiracy theories on as well, and I listen to it. I’ve noticed that there have been podcasts of theirs that have come out and then the following week Hailey Elizabeth makes a conspiracy theory video that has almost the exact same title as Kendall and her husband’s podcast. Like she talks about the same thing they do and blatantly copies their content from time to time. I will admit that I don’t watch those videos because I don’t want to support her anymore so if she has given Kendall credit for her content, I’m unaware of it. But at that point don’t even make the video if it is going to be exactly like someone else’s content. Be original. Another KZbinr I used to like that I now dislike is Eleanor Neale. I used to find her respectful but within the past year or so her videos have been 1) full of inaccurate info and 2) a bit insensitive. Insensitive because instead of saying something like “family and friends describe her as ____” she says “she was ____”. This is important because it is as though she is telling a story as if she personally knew the victims. And she does not. And I’ve read comments by family members of victims she’s talked about that they feel disrespected by this approach she takes when story telling. If family members feel disrespected, that’s enough for me to stop watching someone. The last KZbinr I’ll talk about is Bailey Sarian. I used to enjoy her and the way she told stories, but now I realize she tends to be disrespectful and tells the stories like they’re more gossip than real life tragedies. And that’s just not say with me right. This was a very long comment and if anyone read it all I thank you 😭 I’m glad to see you back making content, Kristina. We missed you!

[@Geshtafshnifka]

No one is mentioning Stephanie Harlowe and the good she does, it’s maddening to me.

[@miranda4996]

I’ve watched one of her videos before and really enjoyed her. What kinds of things does she do that is ethical? Just wondering so I don’t feel like shit supporting her haha

[@Geshtafshnifka]

@@miranda4996 she is a bit low key I think, she doesn’t sensationalize, doesn’t disrespect, doesn’t glorify, she advocates for the victims, she’s the only one I watch, so I know she’s not those mukbang or makeup or get real with me kinda true crime people , she’s also very honest and blunt, which I appreciate. I can’t express myself well, but she’s legit

[@rheasummer5806]

Don't know if you will see this but I have been watching your channel for a while now, maybe 3-4 years and your channel is a comfort zone for me. Thank you so much for making your content. It must take so much work to edit and create the videos. Thank you. Especially when I was living in Germany and I had to deal with some racist bull****, I would come to your channel for comfort. Maybe they are not nazis anymore, but a LOT of germans are really racist and it's just awful. Thank you Kristina.

[@BoboHobo69]

One of the saddest things about the ppl making dumb TikTok’s on the series is that how disturbing even the first victims in the show who got away’s situation was, imagine that like how it ACTUALLY happened. Those tiktokers are truly distusting

[@heyheyitsvey]

There is an overall lack of empathy in the world and people will make anything into a meme, joke, or a trend

[@hurricanefrid]

There should be like a true crime version of the Bechdel test, and one of the criterias should be that the producers have to get consent from the victim's loved ones

[@LelynnsSquirrels]

how did i NOT getta notification for this video?

[@maiapologies2262]

For anyone who watches true crime videos out of curiosity, a creator who covers true crime stories very well is Danelle Hallan. She makes her videos to raise awareness on a lot of recent unsolved cases. May be worth checking out!

[@dampestsphere8355]

Kristina love your videos, thank you for taking about the ethics of different topics specially in such a time were a lot of the ethics is put to the size in a discussion. I wanted to know if you can do the ethics of veganism?

[@marcjsolis]

I don’t mind people profiting off true crime at all. I do not mind people watching true crime for entertainment. If I were a victim of a violent crime at the hands of someone like Dahmer, I wouldn’t care if my story appeared in something like the Netflix series. The merchandise and many of these youtubers are a bit strange and cringeworthy. I would never buy the merch. Also, I live in the immediate Dahmer grew up in. You’ll be hard-pressed to find anyone wearing any of this Dahmer merch.

[@puppyhowler]

this video reminds me how much i love and respect the hell out of Kendall Rae, she does proper research on the case she's talking about, and at the end of every video she does a tribute to the victim of the case. and in a similar manner to shows like Unsolved Mysteries, she puts information in the video like the police department of specific counties for people to contact if they have more information on the case. as someone who consumes true crime content, i always avoided the creators who put on makeup or eating a mukbang, that kind of shit always made me uncomfortable, it's just distasteful. as you said, if i went missing i would rather someone discuss my case with respect and care, not doing a smokey eye tutorial... or eating a chicken mcnugget...

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

I have never liked true crime, personally because I don't like hearing tragic and dark stories. A big part of it is because I am way too sensitive to get into true crime, personally. I tried watching a Charles Manson doc on Hulu and I actually couldn't stomach it. I do understand why people find true crime interesting, though because they want the truth and they want victims' families to get justice. I have watched some of Kendall Rae's content and she is amazing and actually does support the victims. I have also seen some of Stephanie Soo's videos and while I can definitely see why genuine lovers of true crime have a problem with the way she talks about them, I personally never had a problem with how she talked about them because I think she tries to take into account some people in her audience that might not handle listening to the tragedies. Plus, just talking about the tragedies is mentally exhausting enough which is probably why, for her, eating while discussing the crime is a good distraction for her. Not saying it's right, but I understand, to an extent why she does it that way. I used to watch her content because I liked watching her eat and tell a story because 1) I enjoy eating too and 2) I enjoy talking

[@alyssahirsch2330]

Coming to bat for Bailey Sarian: her dark history podcast is seriously one of the best educational tools for learning the stuff you'd never get to hear in a classroom setting. Her episode on residential schools in Canada included links to survivor testimonials and other resources that would allow people to dig deeper into a series of events that the Canadian government covered up for decades. The comments section was overwhelmed with individuals who felt seen and heard. Nothin' about how to perfect a smokey eye.

[@arm2675]

I love her! I never heard her podcast just her KZbin channels. I'm trying to get more into podcast. I don't pay attention all that well so with her I do. I love her dark history on yt! But I do like her original yt it just makes me engage in the story more. Even though I don't wear makeup the story on how she tells it it helps cuz not everyone is going to be calm and collected when telling the stories. She makes it (for me at least) more human like.

[@Prickly_Cactus_1993]

I love true crime but only from one KZbinr, Mr Ballen tells stories well but he started a charity for the victims and other victims of true crime.

[@gurlmadeincanada]

Danelle Hallan and Kendal rae are some of the few that actually help families and try to spread the word about missing people and cold cases. I prefer the interrogation analysis and like JCS inspired content.

[@kiki9627]

I feel like you stated a lot of opinions that are based off of assumptions when it comes to certain youtubers. I feel like you didn't actually put in the time to find out how these KZbinrs' processes work and instead made a lot of assumptions based off of hearsay or a thumbnail. Bailey's videos are not makeup tutorials, she does her makeup while she covers topics. And she calls out the cops or CPS or whatever government agency could have prevented or stopped the crime when they failed to do their jobs. Whenever she's covering the crimes that these monsters committed, she doesn't go into detail. In fact she usually starts that segment with saying something along the lines of "I'm not going to go into too much detail because it's horrific" and tells enough information to make sure the audience knows what's going on and puts more emphasis on how painful and scary that must have been for the victims and how disgusting these criminals were for committing these crimes. And as far as selling merch, I think it's a smidgen delusional to think that because someone's covering true crime they shouldn't sell merch. To budget for the cost of a team to do research, to budget for the time it takes to do research, to budget for production cost, you have to make money somewhere. Unfortunately we live in a capitalist society which means we need to make money somewhere and the merch is not disrespectful to any of the cases or even connected to any of the cases. I'm focusing more on Bailey's channel because she and Stephanie Harlow are the only two I watch. I just feel like if you're going to call out damaging media you should have focused more on the multi-billion dollar company that made a sexualized and drama-filled garbage heap that the families of the victims actively ask them not to do rather than the KZbinrs that sell enough merch to be able to cover their bills. Edit because I paused between KZbinrs and the Dahmer show: you clearly didn't watch a single KZbinr's video but then you went and watched the ENTIRE Netflix drama. And then you proceed to complement how the Netflix drama was as "respectful" as it could be 🙃 ??? Edit 2: BY YOUR OWN ETHICS STANDARD, BAILEY PASSES YOUR TEST. She never covers cases that are recent. She mentions the victims and talks about the lives they lived before they were cut short and humanizes them so they you know this was a real person who was put through more trauma than any of us can imagine. And when talking about the monsters of these cases she NEVER puts them on a pedestal or glamorizes them. When she did cover the Dahmer case I lost count of how many times she reiterized "pick better idols. Do not idolize this guy. He is a monster. He only got away with so much of it because he was an average white guy." Every time she covers the case where there's one of these guys that society likes to idolize, she reiterizes time and time again "do NOT idolize these pieces of trash. Pick better idols. Do better." Listen, I typically agree with you on a lot of topics, I typically appreciate how much research and time you put into making sure you're educated. This was not one of those times. I find it incredibly disrespectful and rude to drag much smaller creators names through the mud and then compliment the multi-billion dollar company that actively and purposely re-traumatized so many families.

[@snesuzanna8769]

THIS!!!!!

[@LelynnsSquirrels]

👋🐶 hello, to Stevie.. 🐾🐾 💕 & Hello, to the Queen of Kings.. 👑

[@tomtheriault9720]

Love this video and you, every point was spot on

[@teardropcrystals]

19:10 i know you meant Cannibal by Kesha ("Be too sweet and you'll be a gone-r, yeah I'll pull a jeffrey dahmer), but i did not realize that Dark Horse (the line you sang instead) also had a reference to him... huh. Really weirdly normalized :/

[@KristinaMaione]

Oh god there’s more than one song with a dahmer reference?? 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ That’s so crazy!

[@RyansChannel0203]

Dahmer working at a chocolate factory was in the Netflix series.

[@marcjsolis]

Maybe he took inspiration from Willy Wonka

[@KristinaMaione]

Really?? I didn’t catch it, was it when he was on prison release? they mainly focused on him at the meat place which he never worked at

[@RyansChannel0203]

@@KristinaMaione It was just before they arrested him for child molestation.

[@babyinvasion]

@@marcjsolis 😂

[@kaybadberg534]

My favorite kind of true crime content is the kind that makes fun of the murderer and laughing at the shit they say in the interrogation rooms.

[@rubyle6668]

Me watching this November first 🎄🎅🤶🎁💝

[@AdriaStaley]

I have recently seen a situation where a creator who doesnt cover true crime become so enamored by this series to actually kick people out of their community quite publicly and rudely because the members were incredibly disturbed by the fetishizing the series and the actor playing Dahmer. Then go on to double and triple down on social media to try and trigger people even more. It isnt edgy or cute. A person can appreciate an actor and their work or true crime but when it is to the detriment of their audience, and utter disrespect and lack of care to the victims of this real life situation you have to ask yourself, is this really the hill you wanna roll down?

[@PlusSe7en]

I knew from the second I saw the title screen that I would never be able to watch dahmer. I felt like it was rly upsetting to have it advertised to me after every movie for a while.. I got rly scared and had to run to stop it bc it rly made me feel sick. And that was before anyone was talking about it here but now that I know everything I feel like I could just feel the bad energy around it

[@allisoncastle]

I used to watch alllll kinds of true crime. Probably like two dozen different KZbin channels ha and lots of documentaries on Netflix and stuff up until about 6 months ago when people started talking about this (the ethics of it and all). Once i listened to people talk about it, it’s like it clicked in my mind and I stopped watching almost all of it pretty much immediately. The only channel I still regularly watch is Kendall Rae. I think hands down she is the most respectful BY FAR. She very often includes the victim’s family members in the vids, never makes jokes/goes off onto random different topics and rambles, solely focuses on the topic and doesn’t do makeup, eat, etc, & more. Oops I commented too soon ha!

[@heyheyitsvey]

I agree completely, I hate the true crime fad and watching other people become desensitized is disturbing

[@MiscellaneousVariety]

People monetizing tragedy. Shocking.

[@levylotus5538]

you never miss King!

[@genevieveselkirk2236]

I know personally I watch true crime because I’m interested in why a person kill another person, like person A killed person B because of this reason and I’m also interested in serial killer and how they turned into one. I also feel weird if I see a asmr video or a eating video on true crime so I don’t watch those.

[@Screenfunfacts]

Yes! Forensic files was my favorite true crime. Exactly how I wish all true crime would be.

[@devonmunn5728]

I have it on in the background since my mom cut cable. One thing I don't like is them showing pictures of dead bodies uncensored. It's probably cause I watch reenactment shows but I prefer to not see photos of actual dead bodies

[@christinemc0]

I tend to watch certain utubers for their personality, but my favorites are Stephanie Harlowe, Kendall, and 10 to Life! They do it the right way in my opinion.

[@willowwhisps1339]

Danelle Hallan is another really good true crime creator. She covers a lot of small unsolved cases, including cases involving corruption or racism. She always Always begins the case by talking about who the victim was. You always feel like you know the person by the end of the video. And she always talks to the family while making the video. She gives her proceeds to the family and leaves ways for her audience to do the same in the video descriptions. I always enjoy her videos.

[@codyseelye8352]

Happy Halloween!!

[@SaimaHirvonen]

i wanted to start using wren but it didnt accept my card for some reason :(

[@jeremylaster9317]

Great video Kristina

[@HobieInTheBox]

I'm starting to really think it's unfair that Stephanie Soo is still being put in the thumbnails of these kinds of videos, since she's changed up her content. She's not doing gruesome true crime mukbangs anymore. She does confession stories from her subs or other kinds of "spooky" or conspiracy videos while doing a mukbang. Ofc, people would know this if they actually did some research, not everyone does and still puts her in the thumbnails

[@phalonschleppe8852]

I’m shocked the Bailey fans haven’t come for you. I agree whole heartedly. Her doing her makeup while telling these tales and making jokes is extremely inappropriate

[@KristinaMaione]

Oh I got quite a few comments very angry at me lmao, my video didn’t get enough views for the whole mob to attack me like they have to others. It’s crazy, we should be allowed to at least discuss how inappropriate it is or our opinion on it without getting hate!

[@vianey97]

I wish people would take true crime as an education purpose like when we learn about the history of certain events such as the holocaust. These are real life events that the victims went through that now and days most people are talking about it to get more followers and likes for their channel. Money can be donated to the victim's family because they went through so much suffer that I can't even imagine. Now, my opinion on having a memorial for the victims, I don't think there should be one due to the fact that most people would just go for entertaining their viewers instead of paying their respects to the victims.

[@brandonhaworth98]

The main reason why I’m distancing myself from true crime and the morbid curiosity is the fact that Monster: The Dahmer Story sexualised Jeffrey so hard. Which is not surprising coming from Ryan Murphy but still it was appalling. The first episode opens up with his arrest which was solid but instead of the next scene focusing on the families reaction to that they show Lionel Dahmers and his wife’s reaction first then later on we get a full on backstory into Dahmer from childhood to his first victim all the way up to his arrest and not only until he is arrested do we actually see some focus on the families. I know about the Stephen Port case because again morbid curiosity but the difference with BBC iPlayer and Netflix is that while the BBC do get some royalties from their projects they don’t actively seek it. Netflix is a massive streaming giant and it’s become clear in the past that to them profits matter the most. No true crime is a pleasant watch because I STRUGGLED to watch Four Lives on BBC iPlayer, it was heartbreaking and it made me so angry how the police did nothing. They still continue to do nothing when it comes to crime in the LGBTQ community. Netflix knew what they were doing with Dahmer and it is too blatantly obvious by how dramatized the documentary is, they just wanna profit and exploit and not think about morality or ethics. I keep thinking to myself “how many documentaries do we need to know how awful these tragedies were?” Jeffrey Dahmer’s name is more famous than his victims families. And that is the problem

[@fueledbymusic100]

Great video I agree with so much of what you said. Also… you resemble Camilla Mendes so much!!

[@gundarose631]

Omg!! Yesss Kendall is amazing 😍

[@jurassicsmackdown6359]

It's fucking sickening that Netflix would go so low as to make a show like this without even telling the victims families. But that's Capitalism, babey. Profit over people.

[@cococovers1333]

I have also seen edits on tiktok of people simping over literal serial killers just because they're "hot", and put music over it like "sweet but psycho" by ava max or "criminal" by britney spears. And other tiktoks are of people reenacting the serial killers mugshots or court appearances which is disgusting.

[@nina_bofina9427]

Kristina has such a lovely voice ☺ I already agreed with most of what was said in the video, but it was still an interesting watch