Daikin Altherma 3 Heat Pump and Home Assistant

After Octopus Energy installed my Daikin Altherma 3 air source heat pump in December, I obviously wanted to make sure it was integrated with Home Assistant. In this video I give you an overview of setting up the cloud integration between Daikin and Home Assistant, I show you my ESPAltherma gadget which is used to transmit local data from the heat pump straight to an MQTT broker and onwards to Home Assistant, and I show you Emoncms and how that is broadcasting data publicly to heatpumpmonitor.org. Configuration examples are on my site here: www.speaktothegeek.co.uk/2024...
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ESPAltherma Repository:
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github.com/emoncms/emoncms
www.heatpumpmonitor.org
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[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

IMPORTANT! Once again a video is immediately out of date as soon as it's published! Daikin have very recently changed their API and from 11th March 2024 the cloud integration shown in this video will no longer work. There is an alternative out there (Daikin Onecta: github.com/jwillemsen/daikin_onecta ) which does work, I've tested it, but for the moment it's using generic temporary access keys. Daikin are working to fix this and hopefully later in March there will be a permanent solution. As soon as that solution is finalised I will of course bring you a new video guide.

[@JohnR31415]

Grr - Be really nice if manufacturers joined together and integrated mqtt directly…

[@bazcurtis178]

Does the new API have more data? I would love to add the device you made to the heat pump, but I am no solderer. Does anyone sell it pre made?

[@GreenPowerMatt]

I can't locate the Daikin Onecta integration on HA, has it been removed do you know?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Same data from what I can see. And no, I'm not aware of anyone selling a pre-made one sorry. They're not difficult to make though and you can usually find pre-soldered ESP32 devices for a bit more money.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

You have to add the Github URL (in my pinned comment) as a custom repository to HACS and install it that way.

[@matbantube]

Thank you! Having my heat pump installed right now. It is at the commissioning stage and thanks to your video it is now connected to HA via the cloud integration.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Glad it helped, enjoy!

[@klauswesthauser5883]

Very good. Thanks a lot ! Please more Daikin/HomeAssitant videos and tutorials. Thank you again,

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Thanks! There will be more, they just take quite a while to put together!

[@1240Connor]

That's great! Our Octopus ASHP was installed 3 weeks ago and I hadn't come across ESPAltherma - that's just what I was after. Like you say, polling the Daikin cloud is slow, doesn't include much data and they break it as and when they see fit. I guess with the ESPAltherma being local and wired directly to the unit, it should just sit there working indefinitely streaming data to HA. Thanks for the video!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Provided your wifi strength near the inverter is pretty decent it'll be reliable. Mine's borderline so I need to add another mesh node to boost it at some point...

[@DavidBarker-fv1vg]

Thank you. Great to see efficient COP stats on your monitoring for those weather temperatures. I will ‘watch this space’ to see whether the new Daikin cloud API offers the opportunity to collect and graph data and calculate SCOP. The more complex ESPAltherma gadget as a local hard wired solution is beyond my skills and I’d wouldn’t do it as a learner, as I’m sure it invalidates warranty if things go wrong!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Glad it was helpful! I don’t think it invalidates the warranty but it certainly is grey area!

[@Richardincancale]

Very interesting! I’m just about to order an emon and HA system so it’s great to see that I can get data from the Daikin system - I even have the same wifi adapter as you!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Don’t forget to read the pinned comment! The HA integration is dead from 11th March and the replacement solution isn’t very reliable yet

[@Richardincancale]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I did see that - thanks. I presume (maybe I shouldn’t) that a new solution will replace it and become stable in the next months…

[@Dale-11]

Very good geek!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Thanks Dale!

[@geoffreycoan]

Good that with a bit of work you were able to get your heat pump integrated to home assistant. For my LG Therma V it looks like I have to add a modbus adaptor to the ASHP. It doesn't look that straightforward so remains on the "future project" list....

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I've heard there's a modbus option for the Altherma 3 too but it's expensive and complicated!

[@stevenbuil8836]

Great video, just what I would like to add to my Octopus install. If you could do a more detailed step by step video at somepoint, it would be greatly apprechiated for the more novice amongst us.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I will do at some point. The Home Assistant integration I used will stop working in a few days so I'm going to need to do a guide on the replacement solution anyway.

[@JurassicJungle]

I am just starting to play with Home Assistant but also just about to install Loxone with a Modbus interface to the Daikin. Now way do I want to start soldering things on the new heatpump. The Modbus interface gets all of the data and control with 2 simple wires into the MMI. It is not a cheap way of doing things as it needs several bits of hardware to integrate but I hope more solid than a hobby integration. I am really looking forward to the visibility and control I get but more important for such a critical home function it will be local and not relying on cloud or hobby integrations that may well just dissapear at any time.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I’ve been looking into that Modbus adapter too, it would be perfect. Costs about £350 though and also requires a separate ‘hobbyist’ Modbus to TCP adapter too. The ESPAltherma solution I’m using does not require any soldering on to the heat pump. It’s just push-on DuPont cables

[@symonchester]

Great video as always, shame we can't calculate COP with the standard integration, still nice to have all the other info in HA though.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Thank you. I've not given up on trying to calculate a COP in HA. I've not figured it out yet, but as soon as I do I promise I'll publish something. The big problem is that HA doesn't like storing one value per day, but there's rumours it'll be possible later this year.

[@symonchester]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I guess as HA reads the data from the cloud and Daikin doesn't send the heat produced data there then we can't calculate it

[@drbyte2009]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTechI think this is possible with Node Red !

[@gopikrishnayogarajah]

Nice video thanks ! would you be making your emoncms data public ?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yes it’s up on heatpumpmonitor.org

[@1240Connor]

In the footage of your MMI controller, I can see your unit was configured as a 'fan coil' emitter which is the same as ours from Octopus. Do you have any insight into why they are set up like this? In the installer menu there is an option for radiator emitters, so knowing that is a supported option, I'm puzzled why Octopus configure it to think it's powering a fan coil unit?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Honestly I hadn't noticed that before! I'll contact them to ask...

[@TheBadoctopus]

Good stuff. Can you control anything via the esp or is it read-only? Do you have to rely on the cloud for control?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I covered that in the video, it's read-only for the implementation I have built, but you can add on relays to control on/off and a few basic other functions (see the project readme). You can't set the room temperature that way though, that is currently cloud only.

[@olninyo]

I reserarched trying to tap into our vaillant arotherm's ebus with an adapter to control it from home assistant, but Im absolutely terrified it will backfire horribly as I have no idea what Im doing. might have to bite the bullet and buy a £200 official internet gateway from vailliant if I want remote control. Which is pretty annoying as its a) expensive, and b) cloud based. really good to see an equivalent set up, thanks for sharing.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I agree it's not ideal, and I've heard the Vaillant integration in Home Assistant tends to break regularly after it's updated (someone I know complains about this to me regularly!). It's a real shame there's no standard for local control on these devices :(

[@bazcurtis178]

The M5Stack ATOM Lite looks like an interesting option. The Shelley comes with the right number of clamps, correct. I can see it on Amazon from around £90

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

The M5Stack is a neat looking little unit if you do need to get something especially. I'd already got some ESP32 dev boards and cases so it made sense to use what I had. Yes, the Shelley EM Pro comes with 2 clamps - I got it direct from Shelley though as there seemed to be a bit of a mark-up on Amazon.

[@deannigel1963]

Hi there, any idea when you will get round to an in depth video on the espaltherma integration just what im looking for to give the data and upload to Heatpump monitor website so I can track and compare efficiency with other installations. Great content by the way.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

No date yet sorry, I haven't even started on a draft.

[@deannigel1963]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech No worries I was just being lazy. Ill figure it out as Im an IT person but no ESP32 experiance :)

[@RaoulTeeuwen]

I also have a Daikin Altherma 3, am interested in connecting the ESP, but can't find a video showing how to open the Daikin and wire up the ESP. Also am interested in how you forward info to EmonCMS

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I am planning on making a video of this, but I won't be making it until closer to summer because I don't want to be opening up and messing too much during the cold and rain!

[@EliotBeer]

Thank you for this - I'm currently waiting for a planning decision for my Octopus ASHP installation, and seeing your series of videos has been really useful! I had been (rather casually) looking at potential ways to monitor the unit's performance, but wasn't aware of this route until your video. The other approach seems to be installing a full-on Open Energy Monitor system, complete with heat meter, etc (at £500+). Did you consider that approach at all, or do you have any idea how accurate the Daikin's internal sensors are compared to an external system?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

The method I’m using is not as accurate at all as the ‘MID’ monitoring used by the proper Open Energy Monitor solution. If you want accuracy and have the budget then that’s the way to go. I just didn’t have enough money spare to spend on that so this is the next best thing. I think I caused a bit of controversy on heatpumpmonitor.org because my system is showing as performing better than it should be. They’ve greyed out non-MID systems like mine now to make it clearer that the accuracy isn’t up to scratch :)

[@EliotBeer]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Well that's frustrating! Would be nice if the Daikin's internals knew what was going on, but oh well.... Yes, adding several hundred pounds more to the budget is not ideal, and I've been umming and ahhing about whether to get one. Will see if the council ends up demanding anything for noise mitigation, and how the budget is looking after that....!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Good luck!

[@martynbarnett2463]

Hi @SpeakToTheGeekTech. Just about to choose my ASHP and your original video convinced me that Daikin Altherma 3 is the way to go (I am equally "a little but obsessed" with HA). But one thing I am not clear on - can you help? - you mention that the CLOUD API changed and now we need the Onecta Integration for cloud control/monitoring - but does this only affect cloud? I was considering getting the BRP069A62 LAN Adapter for local control/monitoring (which I assume to be instead of your suggested ESPAltherma). Do you have any experience of this, and the HA integration needed for it ? Many thanks

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yes, the cloud API change only affects the cloud control/monitoring. For either cloud or local monitoring/control though you do need a LAN adapter such as the one you have mentioned. My LAN adapter (BRP069A78) does not support local access at all but the one you mention has an integration available for local access (github.com/tadasdanielius/daikin_altherma). I can't comment on its reliability or functionality though sorry because I've never used it! In theory it would mean you can get the same data locally that an ESPAltherma device would give you. You have to consider this is all pretty experimental though and any of our Home Assistant solutions could stop working at any moment without warning... so always make sure you have the official control methods working too just in case!

[@martynbarnett2463]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thank you, I think you confirmed my thoughts. Essentially the BRP069A78 is a WLAN adapter that works with the cloud and the internal wall mounted MMI2 (therefore providing the "official control" you mentioned), and using a BRP069A62 LAN adapter as a secondary interface will give me the bells and whistles via HA through that integration you linked. My other line of thinking is that whilst the "Smart Grid" functionality all sounds wonderful, I think I can achieve all that clever stuff through HA Automations - such as knowing when there is Solar available or knowing when there is a cheap rate tariff and firing up (or down) the Daikin accordingly. My only other slight doubt right now is that the BRP069A62 LAN Adapter manual says it wires to an "indoor unit", but in my case my Alterma3 would be a monobloc without an indoor unit, so I am not sure how to connect it to he ASHP at the mo.....

[@stevenbuil8836]

Hi - I have got to the stage where I have everything OK so far as obtaining all the info into HA via the Altherma sensors entity but I cannot work out how to then spilt them up into invidual entities. Would you be able to give me a steer? Thanks

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

It’s on my web site in the template sensors example section: www.speaktothegeek.co.uk/2024/03/daikin-altherma-3-heat-pump-and-home-assistant/

[@tobbenb]

would love a video how to export the data from HA to openenergymonitor

[@tobbenb]

have another brand but have similaf sensor data in HA

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yup I'll be doing one on that in the future. It's very easy to export the data, processing it in emoncms for the Heat Pump app is a bit trickier to get your head around though.

[@matbantube]

What insights has your Shelly energy monitor given you? I'm monitoring mine with an extra clamp on my pre-existing Emporia Vue monitor. The heat pump seems to have a 22W background draw. The Emporia energy figures are quite different to the figures on the MMI. DHW only at the moment. Yesterday: daikin 2kWh, emporia 1.16. Today daikin 1kWh, emporia 1.67kWh.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yeah usually about 2kWh/day for hot water. It's also using 0.01kWh/hour in idle consumption which I thought was quite interesting. Makes me wonder what the old boiler and controls used to use just sitting there doing nothing! The consumption for hot water is reasonably similar but the MMI only ever reports whole numbers and rounds to the nearest one! 1.49 becomes 1, 1.51 becomes 2... so the inaccuracies on the MMI can add up!

[@matbantube]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I measured my boiler energy usage (pump and all controls) - very old non condensing gas system boiler. When off it consumed 2Wh when on about 50Wh. In January that meant about 225Wh a day average. I never measured it but I think combi condensers would use a fair bit more as my one in my previous house seemed to be aggressively pumping air and water around long after the burner had stopped. I hope that the cumulative stats in the MMI are the sum of non rounded hourly figures.

[@62Womble]

Has the HACs integration disappeared as I can only find the second one.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yeah, try this one instead kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6qkmKh7aNJjmqc

[@jamesabbott9606]

thanks Oliver, Ive been using the ESPaltherma for a while now. But not the EmonCMS, how would I forward to the sensors? Do you have yours running locally or via the cloud?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I have emoncms running locally on a Raspberry Pi, and Home Assistant forwards sensor data to it with the following config: emoncms_history: api_key: MYAPIKEYGOESHERE url: 192.168.1.84 inputnode: 2 whitelist: - sensor.ashp_energy_daily - sensor.espaltherma_flow_sensor - sensor.espaltherma_indoor_air_temperature - sensor.espaltherma_inlet_water_temperature - sensor.espaltherma_lw_setpoint_main - binary_sensor.espaltherma_3way_valve_on_dhw_off_space - sensor.espaltherma_leaving_water_temperature_before_buh - sensor.espaltherma_heat_power_out - sensor.ashp_power - sensor.espaltherma_outdoor_air_temperature - sensor.outdoor_module_temperature

[@jamesabbott9606]

Thanks again, how did you create the binary sensor for the 3 way valve and then show it in in emoncms. (Status of Hot Water circuit (non-zero when running)@@SpeakToTheGeekTech

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Oops, I forgot to include that part of the config on my article. I've updated it to add that binary_sensor entity right at the end of the config sample: www.speaktothegeek.co.uk/2024/03/daikin-altherma-3-heat-pump-and-home-assistant/

[@jamesabbott9606]

Thanks so much! its showing in Emoncms as either O OFF or 1 ON, is there anything special you had to do in the 'process list setup'@@SpeakToTheGeekTech

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

That’s it, just add it as the DHW sensor in the heat pump app setup and it figures out the rest. On means hot water cycle is running, off is heating.

[@garethmcquillan]

Can you show how you removed/replaced the cover on the heat pump plz?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Maybe in a way future video. It was just several screws, then it slides down. Getting it back in and aligned was quite fiddly but doable.

[@thesimonm]

Great video! Getting my Daikin installed soon & keen to do this, though not having much soldering experience, is there a video anywhere you know of showing the process of soldering the 4 wires onto the ESP32 board in the right place? Would be very helpful!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

No video on that (yet) but it’s especially tricky for a beginner unless you get an identical ESP32 module. There are so many variants with slightly different pin outs that you can’t rely on the physical locations in a tutorial, you have to look up the pin out diagram for your specific module to find the PIN numbers. Usually they are marked on the module but not always. The PIN numbers to use are in the ESPAltherma GitHub instructions

[@thesimonm]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks, now making more sense. I'd misunderstood that it needed soldering, but the Dupont cables just push on I now understand, This seems more achievable! The Shelly Pro - is that self-installable into the consumer unit or should it be an electrician? Hoping to persuade Octopus to pop it in whilst installing, but officially it's a no apparently

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

@@thesimonm Officially it is a no, same with my install... but I had a chat with the electrician and he made sure that there was a free slot in the consumer unit he installed outside next to the heat pump. When he'd finished, taken all of his photos and done his readings, I turned the power off to it and slotted the Shelly Pro EM in. I had to loosen the bus bar a bit and wiggle it around to fit the Shelly in but it's just like installing any other MCB/RCD and the bus bar provides the live power. You just have to wire in the neutral to the neutral bar in the consumer unit so you need some wire for that. Easy job but you don't want to do it wrong! If in doubt ask a friendly local electrician to help for a callout fee!

[@thesimonm]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Makes sense, thanks. On the ESP32 board I see there's a few GND's - presume you can connect to any of them?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

@@thesimonm Yes, all the ground pins on the ESP32 are the same (to my knowledge!). I just picked one near to the other pins for convenience.

[@GreenPowerMatt]

Great video, thank you. A more in-depth video would also be brilliant to help me replicate your great work. Thanks

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

At some point yes, I'll do an in-depth one on both Home Assistant integration (with the new Daikin API) and ESPAltherma / OpenEnergyMonitor. Might be over the summer

[@klauswesthauser5883]

I am new in HomeAssistant and I find in HACS only the „Daikin Altherma“ Repository but no „Daikin Residental for Altherma 3“ Repository. Any ideas, where is the problem ? Thanks a lot.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

The video is out of date now sadly, you need to use the Daikin Onecta integration instead. The problem is, it works ok but it's using temporary API details until Daikin finish getting things working permanently.

[@thesimonm]

Going to buy the Board through your Amazon link - could you confirm is it better to get the ESP32 with CP2102, or the ESP32 v4 with CP2102? And what end are the dupont cables? (MM/MF, etc) And would you mind giving a direct link to the right case on the ebay store? Thanks

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I used the v2 ESP32 module as linked, the v4 is newer and has a different footprint (so needs different cases) and I think has an upgraded serial interface. I haven't tested a v4 so can't comment on its suitability. To connect to the pins on the heat pump you need female ends (F) so as they fit over the pins on the board's connector. As for the end on your ESP32 module, if you're soldering pins on there then you need F on that end too, but if you're soldering straight on to the ESP32 then it doesn't really matter what you use as you'll be cutting it off and soldering on bare wire.

[@thesimonm]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Ah thanks. So on the ESP32, the cables have to be soldered on the top? I'd wondered if the dupont cables could be slid over the long pins on the bottom of the ESP32? Been looking for youtube videos to help guide on the soldering for that board, if you know of any good ones feel free to share! Thanks again

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

If you get a pre-soldered ESP32 then you can just slide female Dupont cables on them. But most ESP32 modules are not sold pre-soldered - you get the board and a pair of headers that you can solder on yourself, or you can solder your wires direct to the ESP32 itself. If you are planning on soldering it yourself and you've not done it before, get two modules or some headers and prototyping board to practise on or you'll likely melt something! It took me several attempts to get it right. Oh, and get some blue-tack too to hold your module still while you're soldering.

[@AntHarris]

Does anyone know if it's possible to control the hot water of an Altherma 3 using Home Assistant? I'm on Octopus Agile and would like it to automatically run in the cheapest slots.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yes it is, use the Daikin ONECTA integration via HACS (see video description) and you get a water_heater entity that you can control. You can even toggle powerful mode that way too.

[@AntHarris]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Great! Thanks very much for the quick reply [leaves to grab snacks for KZbin marathon on HA automations]

[@rolandrohde]

I just don't get why companies are so dead set against offering a simple, local access option via Wifi/LAN. Relying on the Cloud means lots of cost for the manufacturer and the risk of people not being able to controltheir stuff if the internet is out...

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I agree totally, it could save them a ton in bandwidth costs alone. However I do understand why they do it, it makes support easier because all devices report into the same place and it’s easier for the mass market to use. They would probably have to implement both a cloud and local solution but there’s no reason why they can’t have the same underlying solution for both

[@BruceBrendon]

No doubt I'm being dumb, but all this doesn't improve anything - only shows and shares what you've got, so you pay to see efficiency rather than any optimisation? Thanks

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

This video isn't about improving efficiency, it's about being able to view the heat pump's data and control the heating from Home Assistant.

[@darknessblades]

Shame this doesn't work for a " 2MXM40" otherwise I would have used it myself.

[@johngreen1060]

Thanks for the warning about cloud control. No Daikin for me then. Enough with this rubbish.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Not many manufacturers offer local control to be honest. The heat pump is pretty good otherwise though.

[@johngreen1060]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Bad product is a bad product, even more so if problems with it are deliberate and not accidental. In the past I rushed and got myenergi Zappi (another cloud only PoS) and will not make this mistake again.