Cheap Copy or a Luxury Bargain? | Lewis vs Trickstuff Brakes Compared

[@DaleStone]

It's an easy decision if you remove price from the equation, but can a deal be too good to be true? 👇 (also these Maximas will officially be for sale once I return from the holidays, thanks again Eric!)

[@Ferrari255GTO]

Deals CAN be too good to be true, it's just that sometimes they are real. I once traded a 3€ Karambit from AliExpress for a PSVITA, then sold that PSVITA to buy an air carbine that originally costed 300 bucks (they gave me 70€ for the console given that i sold it at a shop and not privately). Sadly i sold it to buy a good but used derrailleur wich turned out to be clapped so i esentially lost all of the benefit by the end. For anyone curious it was a Gamo G Magnum Jungle

[@heywood165]

Have you been watching Eric’s new channel? I think he’ll return to BCpov eventually, but at the moment Una Moto is a refreshing change.

[@DaleStone]

@@heywood165 of course! I believe that Una Moto will see a level of global success that was never possible in the mountain biking niche.

[@therealridedmc]

The big take away for me is that Shimano/Sram need to up their game. Lewis is coming for their customers.

[@DaleStone]

I fully agree. 🎯

[@mindless7377]

Not really…Sram and shimano make most of their money selling to OEMs. I highly doubt we will see lewis brakes on a stock specialized or santa cruz in the near future.

[@feedbackzaloop]

Naaaah, Shimano, Sram and Magura sell predominantly OEM, they have their own competition. It's TRP, Hayes and Hope who are in danger. But Hope has still an edge.

[@DaleStone]

I don't see why we couldn't see Lewis brakes on OEM builds within the next few years. Kona infamously specced Al Honga brakes, and TRP is becoming more and more common too.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@DaleStone because we don't see ARC hubs, LTwoo shifters, etc on any western brand bike. They all continue working with Taiwanese suppliers of which Lewis is not, unlike Alhonga or Tektro.

[@Ferrari255GTO]

My man's kickstarting WW3 with this one 😂

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

No worries the party censors are chilling out. Chinese people just want to do business with us again, the start of the decade wasn't too advantageous for them too. Everyone got screwed. Let's get back to business 🎉😅

[@orestisvas7277]

That title is going to get you some interesting comments, that's for sure

[@daveharris39]

Lol, yes. I have strong opinions on the topic, but this isn't the place for it... unless the incindiarily suggestive title was designed to create both clicks and comments...

[@Baddecisionaquatics]

I just ordered a set of LH4s of week or so ago got them in the mail a couple days ago and could not be happier with them cannot wait to go riding

[@petererbse6253]

I would love you to review the Formula Cura. I have them on my bike but it would be interesting hearing your take on them since you have reviewed so many brakes so far

[@sans_2031]

Same! I really liked the Curas, both 2 and 4 piston. My only conplaint is the cheap levers that have tons of play. I think the FCS levers are a great upgrade, ridiculously expensive tho.

[@HannyDart]

As it stands I would just wait one or two seasons and then buy lewis, when their product is more mature.

[@kai_v_k]

Or buy Trickstuffs now and pay them off for two seasons ;-). My math feels about right.

[@michaelrogers9809]

Dale, I really appreciate the work you put into these reviews. A number of really exceptional riders in my neck of the woods are using Formula Cura brakes, and seem to really like them. I've ridden them in the parking lot, but not on any steep trails. They are priced very reasonably, and I'd love to hear your opinion on them, as I'm considering them for next year.

[@DaleStone]

I appreciate the kind words! Curas are on my list, but at this rate they'll be a mid to late 2025 kind of thing. Sounds like they're pretty good though. 🙂

[@5DEV]

Where's the popcorn? Comment section is going to be LIT! 😅🔥

[@DaleStone]

Oh hey, you make a surprise cameo in this one! 😂

[@MTBJaySwitzerland]

Some 5DEV brakes anytime?

[@DirtlovR]

You had me with the title, thought you're going political. Personally I wouldn't choose either of those brakes. Trickstuff is way too expensive and Lewis is just shady. If we keep rewarding the strategy of coping and slightly changing original designs we soon might find ourselves out of designs to copy from.

[@DaleStone]

That's a very logical assessment, and I don't disagree with the trend.

[@feedbackzaloop]

That's called convergence, nothing shady about it. Every living creature eventually evolves into crab, all brakes turn into cheap Trickstuff.

[@DirtlovR]

@@feedbackzaloop This is not convergence. Using your example Lewis took a crab, copied it, modified a bit and sells it as not-a-crab. There was no evolution at all. Somehow Lewis is the only brand whose brakes turned into cheap Trickstuff. Weird isn't it?

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@DirtlovR no, Trickstuff was not a crab from the begining as well. They started with basic axial design like 90% of all brakes and happened to stumble upon perfect lever pull ratio you can now see in newer iterations of Hope. Neither they were the first to use ball bearings, CNC, mineral oil, etc. (can't be sure about plastic master pistons though) But they have all these mutations combined into what is an alpha now, so no wonder its genes are so obvious in Lewis. Also, "modified a bit" is exactly how evolution works. It's the revolution that starts off of a clean slate. (And ends with a clean plate)

[@TheS4jordan]

Say that to all the FSR systems

[@NBM397]

I ordered the Maximas yesterday, now I just have to find a longer Goodrich hose for the front (I have a Ti Omnium already, and a wider fit (tyres) ti omnium ordered too. I can't wait for the whole setup to come together with a 223 mm rotor up front and a 203mm rotor at the back.

[@DaleStone]

You're going to love them! 🤘

[@georgeforeman89]

I just bought the Lewis brakes out of both curiosity and in the spirit of tinkering. I have Saints now, but I can’t seem to get them right again after the first few bleeds. I don’t know if Lewis will solve any problems, but I’m down to be an early adopter and maybe have something a little different than many. I would love the maximas, but I can’t justify $1,500 brakes. Hell, I just sold one of my 2 year old mountain bikes for that much. I’d gladly get 3 or 4 other brake sets to tinker with than 1. But that’s just me.

[@behnamkakavand]

Great comparison. But I must say that it’s hard to watch the video without constantly rewinding and admiring the nice lines you take and insane controlled moves you make on those gnarly trails haha

[@DaleStone]

Perfect, watch time goes 📈 😆

[@kizbish]

Interesting that lewis came back and said they were going to make 3 particular changes, including low strength thread locker! Wonder if they were reading your comment section 😂😂

[@jakebguth]

Had my LV4’s for a year now. Very impressed with their build quality, performance and durability. There are a few flaws in part, due to how quickly they were put into production. The handlebar clamp uses small torx hardware that can be impossible to access when using their shifter adapter. Shifter adapter has virtually no adjustment unlike the big S’s. But not an issue once set up. Was in line to order TS Piccola, purchased theses as a temporary fix while waiting the 18 months TS pre order

[@djjmann]

Bike-Doc can get you a set of Piccola in a week...

[@jakebguth]

@ nah they’re still out of stock. I’ve checked with bike24 also n/a but I wouldn’t buy them now anyway, happy with the Lewis LV4’s

[@davidbolam71]

I 2nd Formula Cura brake test, I like mine better than Shimano’s XT.

[@marcinbalcer1772]

mine curas2 broke after one season, cannot recommend them

[@pengujedi4559]

ive read some old forms about shimano lever and magura caliper frankensteined brakes. im too chicken to do it on my own would love to see you do it.

[@DaleStone]

Once I get through the standard options I'd love to get freaky.

[@FluxStage]

Sliding in an idea to make a similar series about 38 style forks from the companies. Maybe huck in a Formula there too

[@DaleStone]

I'd love to, but the armchair suspension experts are the most insufferable kind.

[@comeridewithmeAE]

I would love to see a review of the Hope V4 with the Vented rotors. I've heard interesting things about them.

[@DaleStone]

I'm not sure my weight category is their target market haha, we'll see!

[@hananas2]

The Lewis brakes, while certainly a lot cheaper than the Trickstuff ones are definitely still way beyond many people's budget (including mine) so I'd love to see some more budget friendly brakes again, the Magura MT5s more specifically. Edit: also if I had the money, I wouldn't buy Lewis brakes because for me there are plenty of other options in that price point with more than enough performance without being in a weird grey area, and I'd probably go for something special like Magura MT7 calipers on Shimano XTR levers.

[@sheadleeful]

Virtually identical performance for a 1/3 of the cost. Mamma didn't raise no dummy. 😂

[@DaleStone]

It's the hidden costs that matter in the long run! 😆

[@-IE_it_yourself]

i hope you too will also get replaced with the cheapest option available. trickstuff designed the brakes, then got ripped off and produced by cheaper labor and less regulation. honestly, i would just run hope's if i really wanted nice brakes.

[@HannyDart]

Regardibg warranty: In Germany you have to have a 2 year warranty on any product youre selling

[@DaleStone]

That's a great law to protect German consumers, thanks! They just need to mention it so that non-citizens are also aware. 🙂

[@HannyDart]

@@DaleStone fully agreed :D

[@OxxidCZ]

@@DaleStone it obviously has to be priced in by the manufacturer. So you can't say it is outright great.

[@DaleStone]

If it's the law, then every company has to abide by it to sell within Germany, creating a level playing field that is an absolute win for the consumer.

[@keinschwein8467]

There is a catch to that type of warranty ("Gewährleistung", which is different from "Garantie"): Only within the first year, it is assumed that the product had already been faulty when bought - the seller has to prove the opposite (if they so wish). After that period, the burden of proof switches to the customer. So for all intends and purposes, the customer gets one year of warranty - after that they depend on the seller's goodwill or have to fight (which may just not be worth the hassle).

[@spartanmtb2640]

I question how much innovation actually goes into any of the brakes currently on the market. All of them are quite similar in how and what they do. And I bet even maxima copied some elements from others…it’s not like they invented brakes. IMO it’s more the case of western world trying to protect their chunky profit margins throwing wild claims towards cheaper newcomers

[@DaleStone]

My argument is that I don't believe they share nearly any of the same customers, so there's not much to protect against financially. Trickstuff definitely learned from others as well, every good brand does. 🙂

[@sevenninthsfabmachine]

Agreed. Much of the hydraulic brake designs in the bicycling segment was borrowed directly from motorcycle lever and caliper development. Even the cnc’d industrial design aesthetics can be seen first in the moto world, preceding bicycles by a decade or more.

[@SoGoMTB]

@@DaleStone Yeap you had mentioned it at the tailed of this video.

[@TheOtherPlayer]

The correct answer here is the hope tech 4 v4. Gotta respect the OG of cool cnc brakes, plus they have proper color options and the easiest full service ability.

[@pizzapie4me]

Hayes get my pick, but the new Hope is VERY close for me.

[@djjmann]

T4V4 are great, but compared to the Maxima there is no comparison in quality and function. I ran the T4V4 for a season and now have two bikes on Maxima and one on Direttissima.

[@DaraParsavand]

I think I’m still going to get cura 2 as I just don’t need as much stopping power but I want high quality and haven’t liked what I’ve read about Shimano 2 pistons. I’m still on lousy Avid Elixers which I need to replace before they start misbehaving again.

[@davidbolam71]

I ride with Cura 2, more modulation and power than XT.

[@moynge]

@2:41 "But the Maximas have a more premium feeling Christmas..." -Dale, love your brake reviews and riding videos massively, but really curious about your coffee recommendations -come on', it's gotta be some stellar stuff. You are so steasy with the verbal flow rate, slapping subjunctive berms and all... imagine the debriefs at Trickstuff and Lewis HQs! Guaranteed that they are slowing the video playback rate, but still confused. For their sake, you might provide video transcripts so that their respective design teams can have an accurate account of your excellent reviews. Meanwhile, coffee?

[@DaleStone]

😆 I had a good laugh. It's a fine balance between going too quickly and losing people's miniscule attention these days. You'd never believe that I basically only drink water from this review! 😶‍🌫️

[@moynge]

@@DaleStone Ha! Well, I enjoy the brisk tempo... don't change a thing.

[@piotrmielnik1404]

I was eyeballing LHP ever since I seen them and now after Lewis claims to fix the issues in them it means that I'll wait some more. And as for Maximas: biggest problem with that brakes is that even if you can afford them you often can't buy them as the batches are still small.

[@DaleStone]

More than half of the variants are in stock as I write this. Their crippling supply chain woes appear to be a thing of the past. 🙂

[@Doggepp]

Maximas has been in stock, and still is on several german sites, in both colorways for pretty much all of 2024. Piccolas however, I havent seen them in stock at all, and i've been checking a few times a week since early this year.

[@GaborEID]

Cool review, thanks, no wonder they sent you the brakes for free. Can it be that the power difference comes from the metal braided brake hoses on the Trickstuff?

[@DaleStone]

I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. Hope claims there is minimal performance benefit to their braided vs standard hoses, though maybe not publicly haha.

[@TheS4jordan]

Heh Dale, great video and obvious you now have LHT Nebula's so are we going to see that review soon

[@DaleStone]

Those are actually my LH4s that I reviewed previously. 🙂

[@TheS4jordan]

Ah ok but didn't you say you had a pair of LHT's to review anyway

[@DaleStone]

I do, but Lewis may send me an updated pair for review after they have revised the interference problem, so it doesn't make sense to review the pair I'm currently borrowing.

[@ivanopolese7546]

13:50 i kinda love lewis because they treat their customers like a friend and actually listen to the community. not being a POS is actually good for business... who knew?

[@DaleStone]

If Lewis treats the average, anonymous customer the same way they treat a creator like myself, then I absolutely agree. But I have no way of testing that out haha.

[@pintsizer]

If you can get your hands on them, try a set of Radic Kaha brakes. Think you’d like them.

[@DaleStone]

My PO box is open if they'd like to send over a set. 🙂

[@a8f235]

Initially I was expecting this set(Lewis LHP) to be what I'm looking for, but my head hurts just thinking about the cooling fin solution for the calipers, so I just don't want to touch it at all. I am looking to upgrade my brakes for the coming season, and the LHT set looks to be the best option right now in my mind. I am curious though if their new split hinge clamps is a direct fit for the LHT as well or if they have some kind of individual fit just for the LHP or not, because if the new split hinge clamps fit I'll just order them together just for some peace of mind. I do see the LHT being offered now in the Nebula color option, but I'm hoping to see more options as well, and was hoping for the camo option to drop at some point. After that I can finally get rid of my Shimano XT brakes lol 😏

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

You're not obligated to run these pads.

[@DaleStone]

The fins are independent of the pads.

[@a8f235]

@@LaurentiusTriarius The fins are not attached to the brakepads at all, and you would have to split the caliper to remove them(if you wanted them out. It would be fine if it was possible to remove them, but the calipers cannot function without them or else the pistons would just pop out because there would be too much play). I just don't want to deal with this solution because it's an extra hassle in terms of cleaning and servicing these calipers. The other aspect is the extra beefy pad spring that has to have the right tension to avoid rattling noise. For me this is an overcomplicated design, and is a headache I would like to be without. That's why, in my personal opinion, the LHT is the better choice.

[@jonanolakers1567]

​@@a8f235 Is there a possibility to remove the fins and use Hope vented rotors to build back the thickness lost? Just thinking out loud.

[@a8f235]

@@jonanolakers1567 I do not know any exact measurements of the fin thickness as I do not own these brakes, but my gut feeling tell me you'd need a pretty chonky disc to fill in the void, and that disc doesn't exist. The whole thing is just not anything to even consider. That's why I feel their best design so far is the LHT set.

[@randomdudeontheinternet4389]

I'd really like to see a Hope Tech 4 V4 (and E4) review, as I'm kinda interested in getting those.

[@myrideclips5033]

They’re really good

[@robvanduren761]

I have the HOPE brakes on my 3 bikes including the floating rotors. Awesome

[@l2l791]

I would love to see comparing to XTR and Saint :) ❤

[@DaleStone]

If they release both new models this year, that's a real possibility...

[@hindesite]

I'm struggling to understand why Lewis is getting all this oxygen. Onirii IIIPro IV4R are bloody amazing, and a fraction of the price. Second time out on mine was a 1200m rocky descent (Carricktown) and they far far exceeded my expectations. Shimano and SRAM really need to up their game, theyve been ripping us off for years.

[@DaleStone]

Lewis is putting a significant amount of time and money into successfully marketing their products, whereas I've never seen a single piece of IIIPro marketing ever. I am still keen to try them though!

[@KyleHammerquist155]

Paying people to review them🤷🏻‍♂️

[@DaleStone]

I believe many yes, me no. 🙂

[@Emolokz]

We gotta see that SLX M7120 review next!

[@DaleStone]

I think Shimano will beat me to it with new brakes! 😆

[@Emolokz]

@DaleStone I'm only so eager to see that SLX one since you've got a score for it there already, and it's stellar, but we don't know why yet!

[@hippotek1]

PLEEEEASE, review the ZTTO Team brakes next

[@TheMTBRider96]

5:12, the massive spring, does it work with v4 pads? because the one on LHT does not fit on galfer pads as it's too narrow

[@DaleStone]

The spring fits on both Lewis OEM and Trickstuff pads, so I can only assume that it also fits on V4s, haha

[@TheMTBRider96]

also, like the LHT, do you need to file/drill galfer or other brand pads to make them fit?

[@TheMTBRider96]

@@DaleStone I’ll try with other pads on my colleague’s LHT as the first ones, red galfer V4 shape, did not work out of the box, and the Lewis spring did not fit at all being slightly shorter

@@TheMTBRider96 Yes, the radius on the bottom of Galfer pads is too small. Don't know about the other brands. It is inconvenient if you just bought the pads, and tried to install them before the ride on the parking lot.

[@TheMTBRider96]

In wondering if it’s a Galfer / Lewis matching issue given that the Galfer pads fit Hope and Trickstuff brakes without any modification needed 🧐

[@poket74]

Next brakes should be the TRP DHR please. Curious about your feeling on it

[@DaleStone]

One day!

[@BermUnit]

@@DaleStone been on mine, the evos on the e-bike, since the start (5 years).

[@mynamejeff8940]

You need to try shagura

[@DaleStone]

Once I run out of OEM options I'd love to mix and match.

[@NQpov]

I remember everyone were hating on these breaks, and i still haven’t tried them but they look pretty bloody good haha.

[@DaleStone]

Other brands around their price point should be taking careful note!

[@jordanpanich]

Nice review! Makes me interested in picking up a set of Lewis brakes for comparison to my current setup.

[@rickb.1656]

TRP dhr evo next.

[@jonanolakers1567]

I'm still waiting on the full Hayes Dominion review...

[@DaleStone]

It has become a priority, but I also make no promises!

[@Tekniq1210]

Ask your doctor if Lewis is right 4 you takes the biscuit tonight wtf haha

[@aaronenduro3168]

i think the "more complains percapita" may be related to the accessibility 😅

[@DaleStone]

In a way, yes!

[@diveaddict6885]

I’d buy the Trick Stuff

[@heywood165]

Aww, this is kind of embarrassing because the answer is Intend Trinity… isn’t it? 😂

[@feedbackzaloop]

Wait till they hear about 612 Parts

[@Doggepp]

@@feedbackzaloop 612 parts are nice. But their levers are not it, the clamps are too thin/too little material. I have seen several of them bend, and they for sure cant take a crash. They are also more expensive than Intend Trinitys, and on par with Trickstuff diretissimas. So I see no reason going with them. Otherwise, the quality and workmanship seems nice. Afaik they are CNC'd in the same place as Intend

[@DaleStone]

@feedbackzaloop 👀

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@Doggepp it can't be that 612 is sharing production with Intend. Because it's allegedly a 1-man shop in Switzerland.

[@TheMTBRider96]

@@feedbackzaloopalso got all the geo and numbers from the Maximas, it just have a different piston rollback supposedly giving a firmer bite point 🧐 as far as owners say on the internet

[@mtlaprade]

Do both Lewis and Trickstuff offer product liability insurance if they fail?

[@mtlaprade]

Also, there is no IP protection in China...Trickstuff has no way to stop them if they want to...

[@DaleStone]

You mean a warranty? Insurance is typically for a business, not for their customers. And regarding IP, regardless of what the rules may or may not be in China, if they're selling in a different country they need to abide by their rules. I could not find any evidence of intellectual infringement in my research.

[@djjmann]

Next Review: Radic Kaha. 😉

[@DaleStone]

If enough people ask them to send one over! 😉

[@JC27813]

@DaleStone, another great technical comparison. How would you compare the outright power and initial bite of the Lewis LHP's to the Hayes Dominion A4's?

[@DaleStone]

I believe the Hayes have a lighter lever action and a similar peak power, leading to better modulation. Similar bite softness.

[@JC27813]

@DaleStone Thanks my man. I thought they might be a tad more powerful if they are so close to the Maximas.

[@DaleStone]

@@JC27813 honestly they might be. It's been a while. 🙂

[@bullit4x]

I have the LHT’S. Fabulous brakes. The only thing I can complain about is the lever needs some texture. That’s it. Can’t wait for you to review them.

[@knott4me561]

I bought a jewellery kit and carefully marked out where j wanted some dimples. Covered the lever in masking tape and marked 8 dimples using a diamond tipped dremel piece....it was more time consuming than say drilling holes but I wanted to retain the levers integrity strength

[@eXaviar]

ATM I am on Shigura and pretty happy. Since I just went for my first full sus, I might get faster and the need for more braking power might rise 😅 then I would take a good look at Lewis's offerings

[@gravityprospect]

@dalestone i love to watch your videos and the break reviews are some of my favourites because of the detail and journalism you got into, especially with the Lewis breaks! The only thing which sometimes makes it hard for me to watch / listen, is the low hum in the background. You can hear it from the start all the way till the voice cut at 14:03 and it starts again all the way at the end at 17:15. Heard it also some other videos and thought i should mention it to make watching your videos even more enjoyable.

[@DaleStone]

Always appreciate the feedback. This is the first I've heard of it, but I will see if it's something that I can fix!

[@greenmindmtb7653]

Any brakes made in the USA, Canada, Europe and/or Japan.

[@DaleStone]

Why do you assume that higher quality must be exclusive to these countries?

[@greenmindmtb7653]

No assumptions, just attempting to support countries that are hopefully moving in the right direction 🤞🏻

[@Trade2Invest-]

Which brake id rather have? Id stick with my code rsc, hayes a4 and xtr shigura. Codes are super cheap now and i have plethora to extra parts too😊 i do have the knock off of the lewis brake made by iiipro model: iv4r, and i put my xtr lever on it and its now as good as my code and hayes. I dont know why but i just prefer the lever feel of the Hayes and XTR

[@DaleStone]

IIIIPro has been doing this long before Lewis entered the market haha. I believe their design is heavily inspired by both Hope and Trickstuff. Impressive performers though! 🙂

[@Manetty6]

This is the LIKE BUTTON FOR SHIMANO SLX.

[@fivetool]

Great stuff, Dale

[@notpablo8369]

Maxima vs Saint?

[@DaleStone]

Don't have recent Saint experience

[@benjaminhauck4150]

you should review some trp dhr evo's

[@DaleStone]

I'll keep my eyes on my mailbox 🫡

[@rcotrim29]

Not in the same league as these ones i guess, but would love to hear your thoughts on Formula's Cura 4 😎

[@thevapingpolisher9717]

The formula cura brakes are awesome plenty of stopping power .

[@BermUnit]

confusing thumbnail, thought this was going to be about mushrooms, but i guess that's a "morel" dilemma... I'll show myself out.

[@DaleStone]

You may have stumbled into an untapped market opportunity... 🍄

[@BermUnit]

@@DaleStone SE1E1 Season Premier/Finale: "Will This Fungus Kill me?"

[@DaleStone]

@@BermUnit conveniently that'll be the title of every episode if I'm in charge.

[@BermUnit]

@@DaleStone should have a new host every time lol

[@nimachogyal]

are maxima brakes handmade?

[@DaleStone]

I believe they are hand assembled if that's what you're asking.

[@BrilooPAD]

Can you please do Hope v4 brakes next

[@DaleStone]

They're on the list, but I also make no promises!

[@cegalleta]

no doubt the Trickstuffs are better, but not 200% better. Honestly, Lewis has disappointed me with their attitude and blatant plagiarism, but so does Trickstuff, with their overpriced brakes that haven't had an update in years.

[@DaleStone]

That's fair. Thankfully you don't have to choose between these two options! 🙂

[@TheLelol]

But still in see Lewis' business strategy very very critical! I would never question the build quality or current engineering effort, but their starting point of development was clearly just copying the trickstuff brakes. It's not necessary to reinvent the wheel, but this is too much!

[@paulandersson6120]

When will gen 4 arrive?

[@DaleStone]

Haven't a clue, but the trend says about 8 months.

[@21armyn]

come on dale!! radic kaha!! LFG!!

[@DaleStone]

👀

[@packerja]

I'd love to see you review the ZTTO Team brakes! (available on Ali Express)

[@DaleStone]

Eventually that'd be fun!

[@tomalbert3299]

Thanks for the comparisson. Sounds like you sped up your talking a bit too much.

[@DaleStone]

Believe it or not, there is no speeding up here haha. I do agree I should probably slow it down a bit though, but people have short attention spans...

[@tomalbert3299]

@@DaleStone 😄Wow, wouldn't have expected that. But you're about the duration of attention. Uhm, what was the video about?

[@n.a.3734]

In AliExpress exact replica is sold?!!! Wonder if any good?!!!

[@DaleStone]

Of Lewis? Or IIIPRO?

[@MW-ud8zp]

What handlebar width do you run?

[@DaleStone]

760

[@RatluBoogerbag]

I'm glad you mentioned that critisism based solely on the fact Lewis is a Chinese company is xenophobia. It would be for this reason that Lewis would be my choice.....if I hadn't just put together a Shigura setup.

[@dylan-5287]

I think it's less xenophobia as much as anger over repeated and consistent intellectual property theft.

[@DaleStone]

This is a common misconception. If you can cite specifically which IP Lewis legally infringed upon, you'll be the first. I was unable to find a single one through my research. 🙂

[@RatluBoogerbag]

@@dylan-5287 A German patent is not enforceable in China. If Trickstuff didn’t apply for a patent in China, that makes the design fair game. This is the same for american, British, Canadian etc patents.

[@RatluBoogerbag]

@@dylan-5287 And you have just demonstrated exactly why it is xenophobia. Xenophobia is the fear or hatred of other countries or peoples from other countries based on a lack of understanding or knowledge.

[@dylan-5287]

@@RatluBoogerbag apparently KZbin doesn't allow links because my comment keeps getting deleted. This isn't a one off problem but a long and consistent issue. I'm American, no idea what the situation in Germany is. Lewis seems to have actually gone out of their way to differentiate themselves, kudos to them for doing it right. It's not a case of companies "forgetting" to file patents, it's corporate espionage and straight up theft. If you want access to foreign markets, you play by their rules. Now the idea of tariffs, which have their own problems, are gaining massive popularity in the US. To take all that nuance and history and dilute it down to "xenophobia" is ridiculous and extremely simple minded.

[@marcinbalcer1772]

Okay, so the main controversy is the price. Would you rather buy Lewis if Trickstuff price was $500-600 for the whole set?

[@DaleStone]

The main controversy is not the price, the price is merely the temptation to turn a blind eye.

[@marcinbalcer1772]

@@DaleStone Yeah, I get it, but the main point is that Lewis showed their "reverse-engineered design" taken from Trickstuff apparently costs less than the original. Hope brakes are also beautifully machined CNC "jewelry" made in GB, work very well, and cost half as much as Trickstuff. I wouldn’t buy Lewis because of the moral aspect, and I wouldn’t buy Trickstuff because of the price.

[@WelkySchullin]

It could definitely affect the second hand market of trickstuff unfortunatelly for the owners..

[@DaleStone]

Interesting idea. I would be that DT Swiss fixing their inventory issues would have a bigger effect on resale values than Lewis existing, personally.

[@PhilipMuehlbauer]

i just installed my brand new lewis lh4 nebula brake set a few days ago and i am coming from magura mt5s and because i am still waiting for a part to arrive so that my bike is ridable again i have not yet been able to ride the lh4 brakes but just by the feel of them i already like them more then any magura brake that i have ridden in the past and also a friend of mine says that they feel way better than his shimano xtr brakes

[@DaleStone]

I'd agree with your friend about the lever feel. Bushing vs bearing!

[@21armyn]

1st time i used my lhp-u4 yesterday and coming from maven ult, id prefer this LHP's vs the maven. power is the same but the lever feel is so good! for the price i think this LHP-U4 will be hard to beat..

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I also prefer the lever feeling. That's the major selling point to me.

[@MrIh8hondas]

Is it really xenophobic when you live in a country where your only option when it comes to most things is cheap Chinese disposable garbage? They have a well earned reputation here. It becomes even more evident after visiting Europe and experiencing the difference in philosophies. In Europe, you can actually find consumer goods that are made to last instead of just being as cheap and shitty as possible. It's not a dig at the Chinese. It's a dig at what we've made them build and therefore what they know will be successful in this market. We love cheap trash, and we need to stop it and pony up the coin to incentivize quality instead, regardless of country of origin. If we stop buying cheap crap, they'll stop making it.

[@wanderer2246]

What" legal requirements" can you require from the country trying to own every market in the world?)

[@DaleStone]

I don't follow. Can you specifically cite anything that has been done illegally in this case?

[@zavierscozzari27]

I would struggle support a company that simply copies other products

[@SoGoMTB]

thrickstuff did not invent the hydraulic mtb brakes, they too copied from somebody.

[@zavierscozzari27]

@@SoGoMTB good point, but it's fair to say these look almost identical

[@eve-llblyat2576]

I would never support the chineese copy business. Its not about to copy the same product. Its about making the same product cheaper. Reduction in developing cost. reduction in manufacturing cost. The goal is to push other company out. They dont bring anything new to the market. For the consumer there is no decission which companyx they prefer. Its only , would you pay more or less for the same product. If this buisiness strategy pays of, western company will suffer. In this reyponse the have to adapt and follow, the same stategy. In the end no company will develope something new, because that wont gain anything, when others can copy you cheaper. Support companys who try to improve the sport.

[@DaleStone]

In general I agree, but I think Lewis has brought some tangible improvements to the table (with their bite point adjustment), and I don't believe they are targeting the same customer with their price point and marketing strategy. Many boutique product customers are customers BECAUSE they are expensive, it's a feature as much as it is a bug. 🙂

[@robvanduren761]

People will buy the Trickstuff whether Lewis exists or not.

[@-IE_it_yourself]

god damn i wish i could just order a front brake.

[@jonienglish3231]

There is also a copy of trick stuff radial brake

[@coldwill4021]

If I buy Lewis brakes on Ali Express are they real?

[@DaleStone]

To my knowledge Lewis has not sold them on AliExpress in the past.

[@kmaxxfagyan5740]

Wouldn't it be funny if the trickstuff machine's were built in China

[@mfmeow206]

As the brake review pro can you drop $100 and give your take on the Ali EXPRESS IIIPRO IV4R

[@DaleStone]

They're on the list, but no promises!

[@cerniworks]

Assembly of LHp+ U4: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipXdqnyqiLuKf7s

[@BruceLeeroy-p6w]

Lewis LHT 🙏🏽🤙🏽🙌🏽☕️

[@hsmythi]

I get the joke and what you're hinting at, but honestly, China is ultra-capitalist these days. Much more than States, for example.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

All the worst of both systems with "some" advantages. Gotta respect the people who hustle in that environment 😅

[@MrLince-hr4of]

that's so ridiculous! even my old v brake rim brakes always make my wheel lock up whenever I want it to.

[@DaleStone]

Citation needed for which part this comment refers to, haha

[@eve-llblyat2576]

No they wont. Even the 1300 brakes will not always fully lock up the wheel. And dosing the braking power is iportant. The strenght to push the levers. Heat conduction. And the trick is not always lock up the wheel. A locked wheel is losing 100% grip. Its like saying. I can always lock up my wheels on my old corolla. Why would i need more capable brakes on an F1 car.

[@MrLince-hr4of]

@@DaleStone Not on your intelligence, haha

[@RiderNambaLast]

Capitalism vs Consumerism(Capitalism)😂

[@DaleStone]

In a way, yes. 😂