DALY has now Active (Smart) Balancing! Is this the new NEEY?

In this video, we will test the two active balancers from Daly, one smart with Bluetooth connectivity and app and one standard without any connection. We will compare them to balancers we already have, to see how efficient they are, if they transfer the advertised current and if they are worth buying. Can they reach the NEEY Active Balancer level in terms of quality, specs and features?
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[@danielglang6312]

Hi Andy. About a week or so ago I posted a question about why no one makes a BMS which charges each CELL individually (but all at the same time in parallel) rather than charge across the entire PACK in series. This new method of individual CELL charging would stop charging any cell that exceeds the upper limit and as soon as that cell falls below the upper limit resume charging that cell. This would eliminate any need for either active or passive balancing. Since active balancing currently requires discharging a high voltage cell into a capacitor and then charging a lower voltage cell from the same capacitor it is absolutely possible to build a BMS which only charges each cell individually with no balancing circuitry neither active nor passive. I decided to try to make such a BMS myself and in the process, I have learned a few things about how difficult and costly that could be. There would need to be a circuit to take the large "48" volt input from the charger and break it down into smaller voltage paths, one for each cell. This would add additional cost and complexity to manufacture due to the additional circuitry. This explains why chargers currently charge across the entire pack rather than each cell individually, it is simply cheaper and slightly more efficient. HOWEVA, I decided to try to understand the balancing process more precisely and so decided to build my own BMS using an Arduino to control the process. Since my career was in programming, I do have the LOGIC background to know how to write the code for such an endeavor but have had to learn a new programming language to code the Arduino. I also needed some time to acquire the hardware necessary to build a small prototype. Also, since the chargers today are built for the larger voltage across the entire pack method, I will initially use that method rather than charging each cell individually. Perhaps in the future I will try individual cell charging. During the learning process, I discovered that one needs to sample an individual cell's voltage multiple times and then average the readings out to get a more accurate (truer) voltage since the Analogue to Digital Converters (ADC) in the Arduino chip detects a slightly different voltage each time a cell is sampled. Sometimes it is slightly higher (in millivolts) and sometimes it is slightly lower. This brings into question how accurate the ADC samplers are in current BMSs. I have learned that the programming required to create a BMS is in essence very simple and can easily implement both active and passive balancing at the same time. The program simply loops through a series of steps. Step one: ALL the CELLS in a PACK are sampled to determine the highest and lowest voltage cells. Step 2: Charging of the entire Pack is stopped if any cell has a voltage which exceeds an upper SAFETY limit. Step 3: When one or more CELL(s) are above a BALANCING limit and one or more CELL(s) are below the balancing limit, active balancing is invoked to transfer some of excessive voltage from the highest cell to the lowest cell. Step four: If there is a Cell above the limit but no cells below the limit passive balancing is invoked to drain some voltage from the offending cell. CURRENT BMS design usually doesn't utilize BOTH active and passive balancing choosing instead to use only one of the two methods. When utilizing active balancing alone a BMS usually only attempts to balance when the difference between high and low cells exceeds a certain limit and there is one or more cells below the individual cell limit otherwise it would continuously be transferring voltage and draining the entire pack. A BMS using passive balancing alone wastes some of the stored electrons thereby requiring more time to fully charge a pack. Since all the CELLS are connected in series across the pack, only one cell can be connected to the capacitor or draining resister at any one time. In either active or passive balancing, the number of volts transferred depends on BOTH the capacity of the hardware to handle the amperage as well as the time allowed to complete the transfer process. The BMSs you are currently testing may have the HARDWARE capacity to handle the higher amps but have not provided the required time via the SOFTWARE to actually complete the transfer. For the purists, the term amperage is used to define the number of electrons flowing across a circuit being the equivalent to a charge of one coulomb (6.241 x 1018 electrons) per second. In this discussion, I am using the term AMPS simply to represent the number of electrons being transferred. Obviously, this is still in the theoretical, learning, testing, and developmental state and nowhere fully developed enough to say whether or not it can be further developed.,

[@mfgxl]

It would be nice if you could have a learn mode, which would most likely learning that certain cells are always the guilty party, and then it could give priority to those cells. Keep up the good work, and keep us informed. I am very interested in what you learn.

[@grek142]

Good approach, but I think in the long run it would be better to combine BMS and inverter. In the way of a "Cascaded H-bridge Multilevel inverter". This would have only advantages, except for the increased hardware requirements. But this is already being researched (BM3).

[@evil17]

Interesting concept and I like Aaron’s learn mode idea too. It sounds quite do-able, I guess the expense here is in individual cell, high amp, low volt charging gear, but it makes sense if u individually charge each cell to a specific voltage with a set tail current cut off, the dodgy cells will get there quicker perhaps but then u could prevent any further charging to individual cells as they reach their peek absorbtion while the other cells in the pack can carry on charging at peak rate till they all catch up and stop when they reach their set peaks, this would allow for a much more efficient/quicker charging cycle & probably many benefits particularly to solar users/harvesters. I like ur idea, please keep us informed of how u go with it. Cheers

[@evil17]

You should be working with Daly Daniel, we might actually see some better results from these pretty red boxes then!

[@danielglang6312]

@@evil17 Thanks much for your kind reply.

[@adyceapa8924]

Hey Andy, I am watching you for about 1 year and a half. You have by far the most comprehensive channel on KZbin. You are doing for EVERIBODY a HUGE service. I am really impressed.

[@FutureSystem738]

Agreed! 😃

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot for your kind words 😊

[@leonhardtkristensen4093]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I agree with the others. I wish I had your sunshine. Melbourne hasn't been so good lately.

[@00708046]

I recently learned that some BMS do not balance until they have been initiated by the charger and then they will continue to balance when you turn the charger off. Your small Daly (non smart balancer) probably needs the charger to initiate it .

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hmm, never heard about that before. What would be the difference if a charger is connected? It's not a BMS, just a balancer. It should work in either situation.

[@DroneSurf]

Can I buy a 20S Daly Smart Active Balancer and use it for a 7S configuration for the moment. My plan is use it for 14S or may be 16S?

[@AntimatePcCustom]

Stopping active balance when one cell gets below the threshold is a good thing. If you got a drain cell and you start to balance when getting bellow threshold you kill your whole battery pack instead of just one cell.

[@the78mole]

I also purchased a Daly Smart Balance 2 weeks ago. As soon as it arrives, I'll check, if it behaves the same. I should also design a BMS and Balancer... Seems, that there is nothing really good on the market 😫

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

So far, only the JK-BMS seems to be the best option in terms of BMS and balancer combined.

[@the78mole]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Currently in Germany, there is a run on Mini-PVs up to 600W inverter power and 600-900W PV-Peak-Power. Many people ask, if they can somewhere get one ideally with some battery storage. If some ready-to-use low-cost, low-power (200W AC inverter, 1000W MPPT-Charger) on-grid hybrid inverter, integrating MPPT charger, BMS and balancer for a 12V battery would exist, it would be sold out in hours...

[@MichaelBoard-gu5tl]

You are mistaken in the reason why all 4 turn the balancer on. You already discovered that absorption is the key. But you have only a 1 amp balancing current . So when you charge back up a 16 pack the highest cells will start to slow down as the resistance for charging increases that allows the bottom ones to catch up .....this catch up is necessary to bring the whole pack together to a higher Voltage with a smaller differential. Lets say I am out of balance by .650 Volts ....the increase in resistance for the highest cells will bring the bottom closer all the way easily to .100 separation only because of increase in resistance to charging . that is what your charge curve goes steep up.....more resistance ........but when you get close to 3.60 this resistance collapses as you reach the limits of cell . Hence the run away at the top. you can have run away on the bottom and the top. So Daly makes sure that all cells go past the threshold before taken active the balance current of only 1 A ..................you need a lot more current to get a cell voltage split from .750 back to a differential of .100 . You have to come in with over 50 amps for quite some time to get them to reduce the differential all the way down to .100 which is not possible with 1 a or 5 a at all . But there is merit to start at 3.2 Volt , why ? Because you enter the steep incline at 3.2V which you can clearly see, the increase of V slows down due to the resistance building up. So the Balancer makes sure that all cells enter the threshold before the steep incline starts ..otherwise you drag this separation all the way up with you even when you come in with 80 amps ...the lowest cell will stay low , only with enough absorbtion will it change it's position in the pack and they start reacting to absorption vs V raise at around 3.30 V . You are actually already in a slow down of V raise since nominal 3.2 V you can observe that easily. Come in with 80 amps and watch how the diff tightens and the increase in V slows down. if your solar can do 80 amps or more . Than when you drop out of 80 amps later in the day , the cell will drop back and rebalance at where ever the absorb level is comfortable. It might pop back to 3.3 and might than rise again a bit up just while sitting there doing nothing than overcoming the shock of an 80 amp drop.

[@eduardorbike1]

Excelente video. Una pregunta... el ECUALIZADOR queda con un indicador led interno encendido cuando esta conectado? Aunque no este en proceso de balanceo? Es un indicador muy tenue !

[@paulblea3612]

hi can you make a video on the New Daly 5A active balancer?

[@mtay65]

You need UT-210E for small amp.

[@burnzy56469]

Thanks Andy I have been waiting for a review. I will wait till thay make a higher current one. Ps I just brought a companion rover 100ah new for $850 aud so Keen to open and have a look

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Luke, we already have better products on the market. Even the 'normal' capacitive balancers do a better job as the Daly's at the moment.

[@eduardonogueira5457]

Hi, great vídeo, have tou tried any other active balancer (a good but not so expensive one)?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, I have. The 5A active capacitive balancer is great: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/

[@markcupitt8777]

Hi, Wonderful Videos, I'm waiting for my 3 each of Daly 8S 24V Smart BMS's, Smart Active Balancers, 5 Amp Parallel Module .. Ill be paralleling 3 x 200AH Lifepo4 8S systems for a total of 600 Amps capacity. I noticed you had an app with Daly BMS Wire Diagrams, or a web sire, would you mind sharing how to get that? Have been unable to find much documentation at all to be honest

[@centerrightproudamerican5727]

A couple years ago I tried the then-new smart Daly and had nothing but problems with it. I eventually gave up. In the online forums, everyone else seemed to be having problems as well. They have started to die down, but the reports of people having problems have continued since then. About the same time, I noticed that even people with the 'non-smart' Daly BMSs started having problems as well. Something happened to the quality of the Daly products. I lost trust in Daly and I am going to have to see a *lot* of very positive reviews to ever buy something from them again. The 'smart' daily active balancer review by Andy indicated the active balancer works but indicated a few issues and oddities with how it works. Meanwhile, the 'non-smart' review was really bad. Needless to say, I am a long way from being convinced Daly is worth trying again. Andy was very generous in saying many he just got a faulty one.... but I am reminded of the old Monty Python and the Holy Grail line "Run Away! Run Away"

[@Dirt-Diggler]

Here's one 👍 18 months in and my 100A smart BMS still works fine 🙂 Only issue is the BT only works when it's charging or discharging with over 5A, under 5A you need to wake the BT up with the button 🙄 i see it as a quirk rather than an issue ( mainly to make myself feel better about having bought a Daly BMS ) 🤣

[@centerrightproudamerican5727]

@@Dirt-Diggler Good to hear!

[@Dirt-Diggler]

@@centerrightproudamerican5727 i seem to be in a minority though 🤔 I must be lucky cos i have all renogy solar and that all works as well 😮 🤞 😁

[@riaanstrydom2183]

@@Dirt-Diggler 100A? You sure about that figure?

[@Dirt-Diggler]

@@riaanstrydom2183 no 😟 150 🙄 I fixed spelling 4 times and still missed that DOH 😭

[@SkypowerwithKarl]

Andy. They need to send the prototype to you for evaluation. Seems like they are software smart but real world needs ignorant.

[@noelbondad7423]

And they should PAY you for that. Andys Offgrid Garage QA department Lol!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's what they offered to me but wanted me to keep the camera off for that testing. I declined unless they pay for that. I don't have time to test their products for free!

[@SkypowerwithKarl]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Way to go Andy! That’s why we watch you, you tell it like it is!

[@andrepallotta8633]

Hello thx for you videos Very clear and detailed I have issues with daly bms 250A 4s. The parameter end of charge dont work. And the charge stop on the over charge value. If you have any idea your d be welcome.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. So first of all the BMS should not control your charging! This is a task for your charger or solar charge controller. The BMS is simply there to protect the battery if the charger is faulty and keeps charging. The charger should stop charging before the BMS triggers and disconnects you battery. For example, you can set the charger to charge your battery to 3.45V/cell and have the BMS turning off at 3.6V/cell. The BMS should not disconnect the battery unless something is wrong.

[@luciananitulesei]

Hi mister Andy! Im Lucian, from Romania. I need your help , please!! I buy a 16s daly active balancer , and he comes without bluethooth. The seller say,on this model 16s no needs BT. Is that true? Best regards!! Sorry if a disturb you

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks for your question, Lucian. They have got both version, with and without Bluetooth, so it depends which one you have ordered.

[@luciananitulesei]

I ordered the smart version, with BT, but they say that the 16S model does not have the version with BT mode, only the 14s. In the meantime, I tried with a BT module from another Daly bms and I saw that it works, I can use this one for the balancer. But thank you very much for the answer. I want to congratulate you for everything you do, keep it up, you are the best. I have been following you for some time and I want to say that your knowledge and all the tests you do have been very useful to me.

[@farside87]

This all boils down to the design engineers, the firmware programmers, and the app software programmers not actually talking to each other. To get a new product on the market, those people have to work together. Also, where's the Quality Control, and Inspection Testing? Daly is losing face, fast. Other companies are creating better and more reliable products At this state, I'm not sure why they just haven't reverse engineered a HelTek or Neeey, add a few extra or larger capacitors for more amperage, or filtering, and put it in a red case with their name on it. At least this would give the customers what they want, and copyrights laws over in China are not the same as the US.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Exactly. Everyone is just inventing the wheel again instead of building up upon other products already and make them better.

[@julikb]

Hello ,Andy...i am rebuilding an old bionx battery pack wich havent balancing function..it is 11s battery.I am wandering can i connect 2 BMS boards (6s+5s) or using13s bms leaving some wires unused.Please give me an advice.Greetings from Bulgaria.

[@angeloenergiafaidateenonso6722]

hello your Smart active balancer i noticed it is for 16s battery banks but it also works on your 4S battery bank ?? or am I wrong to see and is it a Smart 4S active balancer? I hope you answer me in the meantime thank you. Angel

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Found your question, sorry, just far too many comments to look at in a timely matter... So, the balancer works with 4s and it seems they have just cut off the remaining balance cables from a 16s balancer. It seemed to have all the connections and should also work from 4s-16s batteries.

[@angeloenergiafaidateenonso6722]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thank you so much for the answer and sorry if I asked you the question in the other video you posted but unfortunately I needed to have an urgent answer. I finally decided to buy the other active balancer Where you posted a video and saw that you were really excited about it. it was the balancer of the NEEY. I ordered that because I saw that in your tests it is really very efficient unlike this one from DALY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR AVAILABILITY 😉☺️☀️🔋

[@evil17]

Thanks again Andy, good vid n info, doesn’t look like Daly will ever get out of their rut does it?! JK for the win again. Cheers

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They certainly have still a long way to go. Others are doing a lot better already.

[@dipakthakur1310]

Good

[@tziebe]

I have a problem would be nice if someone could help me with it So my smart active balancer works like I want it to but I have one problem ones it goes in to sleep mode and I'm charging the battery it never wakes up even it's over the set start voltage and deviation unless I wake it up manually by pressing the button on the bluetooth dongle but I can't do that every time I charge the battery I'm trying to find out if there is a problem with mine or if that's how they are designed?

[@chrishessey9733]

I don't know why thay don't put the Bluetooth inside the box.

[@jurasiksafonins189]

daly smart active equalizer

[@twistedthrottle8513]

i have 1 amp daly and didnt relise it was bluetooth is same size as your bigger 2amp one you show that works ,i can use bt module from the bms if i wanted to use it , jk has built in one dont see point

[@uhjyuff2095]

the daly balancer with bluetooth has a circular dongle attached with a wire to the balancer. If yours doesn't have the bluetooth dongle you probably don't have the bluetooth one.

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

Heya, those daly is very disapointing they have still a lot of work to do

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, they do. Don't know why they are still so popular... The red looks good though 😉

[@SiriusSolar]

Can the balancing cut in be set to 3.35? Or only to the 10th position like 3.3 or 3.4?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It can be set to 3.35V or 3.37V for example.

[@SiriusSolar]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia awesome, thank you. Although not perfectly ideal that all the cells have to reach the set point at least we know that they normally do all go above 3.35 when they're approaching full even when balance is pretty far off. I think 3.3 might be a little low but 3.35 would be perfect.

[@paulcurtis5496]

27th like... I'm slipping again

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Oh, wow 😂

[@katakwarvivek8670]

How it's measuring temperature, is this shows accurate temperature

[@SayWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat]

it'sinternal temp. to see battery temps -you need to buy additional NTC temp sensor for daly.

[@katakwarvivek8670]

@@SayWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat explain more on this thermistor NTC

[@Josh-b3c]

Why don't they just make something like that heltech 4 amp one but with a Bluetooth or even a jumper setting that you can change maybe increase that deviation to like 20 or 25 something just five seems a little bit too tight for those super high quality grade a cells Or even that doesn't even have to be a capacitor one it could just be resistors but use bigger resistors have one that can have like a 1 ohm resistor on each cell and have it adjustable also that would be plenty of power I mean the settings that I see that a balancer should have would be the turn on voltage per cell based on the highest cell and then the deviation setting if they made one with those two settings adjustable even if it was just with dips switches

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Many solutions for a good product. They just need to test their stuff before releasing.

[@terratrekker2]

Too much oil in fuel + old gas?

[@theevvlogs7273]

Sir i need your help my daly smart balancer is not working 2 smd is blown so can you please help me to know those smd number?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Send me an email with what parts you need to know.

[@allan95]

Has anyone had a active balancer that wont turn on even i cannot see the bluetooth module, i checked my balance wire voltages and there ok but i cannot see the bluetooth and the green led is not on

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They have two versions, one with BT one without. It only turns on at higher voltage as shown in the video. But BT access should be possible as soon as it is connected.

[@allan95]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia seems i have a faulty unit Daly are sending another :)

[@rcarhouse]

👍👍👍👍

[@haydenwatson7987]

Why do you need to put an active balancer on a pack with a JK BMS? Isn't its built-in active balancing working?

[@DavidHalko]

Andy said he shut his JK active balancing off… he was just testing the new balancers.

[@FutureSystem738]

@@DavidHalko This! The JK was just there for the excellent monitoring via the phone App. It wasn’t balancing, Andy was just giving us a good view of the individual cell voltages. For my money, JK for the win and DALY is a fail. (I now have two JK BMSs and couldn’t be any happier.)

[@haydenwatson7987]

@@FutureSystem738 I will stick with my JK!

[@FutureSystem738]

@@haydenwatson7987 I have a 16s 200A JK BMS which has been flawless. I also bought the 4s-8s JK for a 12v battery when they first shipped, which was initially faulty. However they were quick to acknowledge the problem, knew what the problem was, and replaced the faulty unit (though I had to ship it back to them- they fully refunded me the postage cost.) The only annoyance was the delay in having to ship it back. However I am thus quite happy with their customer service, and love the functionality of the BMS via their phone App.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, stick with the JK-BMS. It's the best solution right now.

[@Stoffe46]

Finally results Not Good

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It still needs development. Good start, but there are better options out there.

[@Dirt-Diggler]

That's the trouble with a lot of Chinese companies, they can copy and make cheaper but cos they didn't design and develop the product the have no actual idea how it works ( or should work) 🤔 I think that's why so many responses from Chinese manufacturers make no sense, it's not the language difference, it that they are googling the answer as they reply 🤣

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, they really should do some R&D on these things before releasing them.

[@Dirt-Diggler]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia but they have you Andy 😁 Best R&D on the planet 😎👍

[@mbr8981]

Neeeeeeyyyyyyyyyy heeeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeee

[@FutureSystem738]

😂😂😂😂 ROFLMAO

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Oh, wow, I have started something here... 😂

[@mbr8981]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yesss

[@offgridler]

Entscheidend ist doch ob der Balancer das macht was er soll. Ob man die Einstellungen nun nachvollziehen kann oder nicht ! Ich entsinne mich da an die für Dich nicht nachvollziehbaren angeblich zu hohen Ladespannungen des Victronladereglers ! Schlussendlich haben genau diese hohen Spannungen sich als zielführend erwiesen !

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Nicht ganz. Wenn das BMS nur funktioniert, wenn ALLE Zellen ueber der Startspannung liegen, macht das ganze Konzept keinen Sinn.

[@jimmy_Ross]

bro i spend under 500 dollars a year for electricity so stop the bull shit you dont need all this shit not until the power grid goes down

[@noelbondad7423]

Thank you Andy. These Chinese products are being rolled out without being fully tested. They actually let the consumers do the testing and wait for problems to come up. Then they apply fixes. In the meantime they have made money from those who dont know and dont COMPLAIN!

[@razvanduta3563]

Spot on.

[@laurentsantaibambu7324]

I completely agree with this, after having tested 2 BMS from Daly, which does not work normally, or not at all! My opinion Daily they just do shit

[@lauriwatson537]

Hi Andy, I have watched your excelemt vedios for a while now I am fascinated by the balance circus. Would it be possible to replace busbars with shunts then have watt/ capacity used to obtain a real ballance between cells.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep, the products are definitely not ready for publishing. DALY reached out to me and want me to test them for them. Off camera. I declined and said if they are not confident about their products, don't sell them.

[@mrtechie6810]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia My Ant BMS won't turn on, and I am looking for a 200A(?) BMS for a 48V Lithium Ion for a 3000W inverter. Which BMS do you recommend?

[@theoff-gridhouseinrome3598]

In the last month I saw my Daly BMS app showing the Active Balancing function, I tried to use but it hasn't work; but Andy give the answer if is good or not to buy or not to buy it.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, a few people asked that question but it obviously does not work with any of their existing BMSes, they just use the same app for both devices.

[@sean6932]

I use Daly smart BMS with the Heltec 5amp works well together.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep, that would work and the active balancer will compensate for the lack of balancing in the Daly BMS.

[@aha5888]

When do you need 1a or a higher capacity like 2-5a active balancer ?

[@onthelake9554]

Why am I not surprised . The delta of displayed voltage to actual is enough for me. That's terrible .

[@good4politics]

I own one of these along with other daly poducts, BMSes mostly. They are ALL crap. IF it works initially, it will fail you in less than a year. Even if the unit works, the bluetooth will fail. Good luck with that. After wasting hearly $1000 US on Daly products, I will never touch them again.

[@josepeixoto3715]

Same here, a crappy Daly , just openned up a Dispute for a refund with Aliexpress, the damm Daly POS barely worked the 1st day, died in the 2nd, won't stay connected, tried, bt button, charge, and short ; my other Jk and Hibms are still working after 2 years; the wires on the Daly are crap too, only 0.005 inch diameter(11 of them) so thin, you can't even crimp them properly; short too, at only 30 cm; they try to save one cent here and there, i doubt the whole package is good; tried one, no more daly.

[@maxmeyer7299]

use JK-BMS all in... nice test, thanks. I didn't understand why daly is used so often? Well, I haven't been following the topic for so long, but JK-BMS has everything, 200A should be enough for everyone at 48V.

[@SiriusSolar]

But JK BMS is expensive. I can get one of these 8s balancers for 30 US dollars. My battery already has a BMS with passive balancing that isn't quite enough to keep it in line and I need some stronger balancing current which is where this one comes in. I'm just looking for the cheapest strong enough balancer that won't cause imbalancing by continuing to balance at all voltage levels.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

JK is definitely the way to go. I was just curious if Daly actually made a decent product. Maybe they will one day...

[@mprelectrical]

I have a daly BMS but it's no match for the 2 JKs I have, it's getting replaced with another JK.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep, you cannot go wrong with a JK.

[@bardassakkf]

Hi friend. I test a daly in new 16s calb 280 ah lifepo4 new pack. Not top balance. I had about 70 mV of differences . I set start balance up then 3.40 mV for cell and i charge at 54.7 v . Daly balance the cells with 20 mV differential. Is very low cost balancer for me is a good solution. With resistive balance of bms i complete the operation and finally i have 0.003 balance in a new pack . Very good. Your channel is the best. Thank you.

[@uhjyuff2095]

Sweet! I like the daly smart balancer too. its great so far.

[@ciciedee5474]

I have been waiting for this video. Have you ever hooked up your scope to the balancer to see if they balance with pulses or linear non switched?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I never did. I'll put this on my list for future videos. That will be interesting!

[@NailHead86]

I don't think that all cells being over the threshold is a huge problem. If your bank has cell under for example 3,2 volt and even one over 4 volts your BMS should cut the pack out. It's not a bummer it is what it's there for. Over 1 volt delta is not faulty balancing design it is faulty cell(s) or complete lack of balancing. You are creating voltage difference by charging one cell by it self and/or discharging one. That is in no way the correct way to charge series battery banks. Functioning packs should not see that kind of difference between cell voltages. On top of that balancer is not behind BMS and it can not provide charge to the pack, but it can discharge the pack. On that sense I would like to see definite undervoltage cut out on balancer as this one has. In general I just think that your example about one cell shooting up to over voltage cutout has nothing to do with balancing functioning cells. That is a bad cell and playing around trying to balance broken cell with set your garage on fire.

[@Hertzsogood219]

Thank you for the informative video. I need a balancer for my 4's 2p 12 volt 147ah lipo4 bank. Do you think the Daly 1amp balancer with Bluetooth connectivity would be a good choice for an active balancer.

[@cristof48]

hi Andy, I thing the setting for your smart active balancer is for lithium-ion (4,25 max / 2,2 mini)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I changed it to LFP but the numbers don't change🤷‍♂️ Forgotten to mention this as another bug.

[@dawiddebinski8728]

I connected 5A Daly balancer 16s to 48v battery, and after few seconds it was smoking. Dont know if those devices are reliable.

[@simoesp]

looks like that all of the other leads of the ic's was populated tried to populate with 16s ? :D

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They come as 24s versions as well but they just cut off the remainder of the 16S version. It looks terrible, maybe they ran out of 4s cables 🤷‍♂️

[@simoesp]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia looks more they manufacture 24s and then cut the rires for 4s making more cheaper the production because in the video the PCB looked to be populated

[@robertmramor519]

Hello Regarding voltage measurements. Have you thought about the accuracy of your instrument? As you have it, you have approx. 5% deviation. You must use an instrument with at least 6 digits and 0.5% deviation. Or even better with 0.1% deviation. Greetings

[@liviupaulet7303]

Hi! What bms you reccomend for a folding bike battery. 12,5ah 36v 10s5p(2500mah cheap cells) 15a controlller. I just need a bms 55..60mm x35mm x10mm. Not very much space and the stock one don't do balancing) i have opened the pack and balanced manually with a rc charger but i want to not open the pack. Just use it with a good bms

[@josepeixoto3715]

Just bought one Daly bms , barely worked the first day, had to remove it the 2nd day, it kept shutting off randomly; the balance was a joke too, ~~30 mA, same as nothing, they must be kidding; the wires, too cheap too, short, and only 0.005 in diameter(x11 strands), (a human hair is half of that), one can barelly crimp them!! also, it will not turn on unless you activate the GPS on the phone, daheck is that!! openned a dispute today for a refund for DOA w/aliexpress; my other BMSes, Jikong and Hibms are still working well after 2 years;

[@lennartjohansson3335]

Hello. Which active balancer is the best, of non-smart ones? Have tested the 100 balancer, not working. Have now bought Daly but it seems to be the same type. Need a simple cheap one for 6S. Many thanks for the help. Regards Lennart

[@marktheunitedstatescitezen185]

Can I use a 24S Active Balancer by DAILY with Their 15S 120A BMS to help keep the 15 batteries evenly Balanced with the extra 9 batteries fully charged as the 15 batteries are worn down by use the Extra 9 3.2v 280Ah batteries can help feed the 15 ! “ what’s you’re thoughts & Wisdom ?

[@howardjack1103]

I knew there was a comments section somewhere as I had previously seen it. then couldn't find it - the secret? Keep on scrolling past all the other video icons/thumbnails. And because I enjoy your videos, info, voice, sense of humour I have joined up. Tells me it starts the day after my 76 birthday! Anyhoo. I have a Daly Smart 250 with BT dongle and I think I may have solved my balance problem Live ion the road in 15" poptop. 540W solar, Renogy DCC50sMPPT, BMS as above. to 400Ahr 4S bank My charger from Ian Goh ( FPV Solar) is set to 14V when on Genset , (will reset to 13,6 if long term on mains) Daly set to Bal open 3.4V, open diff 20mV while charging Cell diff can get over 25mV Balance works starts to work as soon as I turn off charging and slowly gets down to 5mv even 2mV so I think that is reasonable? HOWEVER, following other of your info I have on the way a 4th Gen Neeeeeeyyy active balancer, Why? because it's there and lust to be sure to be sure I look forward with anticipation to seeing the results Cheers

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks for joining!

[@passion-camping-car]

Hello and great thanks for tour KZbin Channel. Sorry for m'y english i'am french. Atcually a have a 16s 105ah lifepo4 batterie pack for my 4600w Solar installation. Actually pu bms is a 100a Daly and a have adds a heltec active balance that i manually start when a imbalance is to high (0.14v at 55.5v and charge at 35amps). I want to upgrade my battery. Please what would you recommand again, neey active balancer or change a Daly bms for to a jk bms ? Knowing that in the future i would Mike add cells to make a 16s2p battery. Thanks in advance

[@csabakertesz3]

Hi. What is your experience, what is a good balancing current for smart balancers? 30mA, 60mA, 1A? (LiFePo4 Batterie 280Ah)

[@darksniper2023]

Hi Andy, can I ask if what was the best active balancer based on your experienced? 100balance, Daly active or any other recommendation? thanks

[@si12volt1]

No serial numbers, no warranty paperwork, if you do both a DALY Active Equalizer and a Daily smart BMS you can't have the setting on one APP you have to use 2 apps and 2 Bluetooth devices 1 for each unit

[@rockermilano]

threshold settings on balancing is based upon average volt of the bank, not on a single cell voltage. it's not a bug , it's a feature.. 😃

[@dtvking]

You say it's Daly's 1st attempt at an intelligent balancer but they are one of the longest-going BMS manufacturers in the DIY market and very late to the party in my view. They should have been one of the 1st and have perfection by now. Thanks for all your testing, good to know what sh*t NOT to purchase 🤣

[@danmc1313]

1st attempt at an active balancer.

[@uhjyuff2095]

Stay away until DALY can update firmware on their Smart BMS. Daly is not the right choice for a smart bms with balancing function.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They are an established manufacturer with a long tradition and lots of experience. Why they develop and release such products is beyond my understanding 🤷‍♂️

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

I have six dalys they're all junk. 5 jk's coming my way now

[@tedhamilton2362]

With the need to have all cells reach a threshold, I would set a minimum value for all cells to reach (ex. if expecting 3.3v to trigger, set to 3.2v). I hope they have the updated firmware in the version I receive...).

[@ranig2848]

I don’t understand why these can’t just trigger based on voltage delta - if it goes above defined threshold, start balancing until it gets below threshold. For LFP, most of the curve is super flat so no balancing should be done. But at the low and high end balancing would help increase longevity of cells if they’re kept balanced. On high end it helps avoid a cell peek to high (causing hi voltage damage), in the low end it will help avoid cell going to low (protecting cell as well). Since with LFP both low and high end are very steep, it should be easy to just use voltage delta to trigger. If delta is not huge I don’t mind some imbalance. Finally, when it is in the low/high end it should be great to have 5 or even 10amp since in those areas the curve is steep so a cell that is much lower or higher needs a lot of “support” to stay close to the other cells - especially when charging pack with >20 amp.

[@milan2931]

Two parameters of level for balancing - low and high level, yes👍

[@onthelake9554]

You would have to have some perfect cells and a strong balancer to keep up at the top and the bottom of the range . High voltage balancing only is the way , at least with the current cells and balancers available . Andy has demonstrated trying to bottom balance a long time ago , you can have one or the other but not both without near perfect cell capacity.

[@SiriusSolar]

@@onthelake9554 I agree, bottom balancing and top balancing on the same set is a bad idea. What if you know your battery is low so you hang out near empty for a really long time trying to conserve power, the bottom balancing is at work for hours and hours through the night and then all at once you charge them up in the day, you charge them so quickly that the balancer can't keep up and you end up with an overvoltage cell because all night the night before it was working against itself.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, you won't do both, bottom and top balancing with a battery pack. We have seen in the many tests, that bottom balancing with an Active Balancer will only give you 2-3Ah at best. If you have a 280Ah pack and are reliant on these 2-3Ah, there is something wrong with your system design. Either get second battery or a larger one if you need more storage. Top balancing seems to work fine with an active balancer once we leave the flat part of the curve, so 3.45V and above works great. Holt the pack there for 30min to give the balancer time to do its job and then fall back to float and a lower voltage.

[@imho7250]

Since a perfect battery doesn’t need balancing after the initial top balance, the first goal should be to make your battery as good as it can be and then set the BMS to do the minimum possible needed to keep it balanced. If you have a 1p battery and one cell has 5% less capacity than the highest, as long as you charge to 90% and shutoff at 10%, you will never really need to keep filling that one cell at the bottom and bleeding it at the top. Just let the balancer deal with the different self discharge rates during each full charge. I have a 20s6p LiFePO4 battery which i tested each cell (which seems to have been pulled from 20 different reject piles) and matched as good as possible. Originally it was going to be 5p but I went with 6p to give me the capacity of 5p even when used at 10-90%. I use the ANT BMS which only has 100ma passive balance (I wish it had 500ma active), but the key is in the settings it allows you to choose from to maintain balance. Since i want the battery to last long and im using my AGM charger which has float, i set the OVP @ 3.5v/cell and release at 3.49v. This blocks the charge for a few seconds, allowing the charger to drop down to float, then opens the port again. The ANT allows two types of balancing. The one i use is BALANCE LIMIT which jist bleeds anything over a specific value. I have mine set @ 3.44v which corresponds to the float voltage. So if i leave it plugged it it will fully balance. If I unplug early it will just bleed off a bit from the cells that don’t have much self discharge. The ANT also has autobalance which can be started manually, or triggered when both CELL DIFFERENTIAL and BALANCE VOLTAGE conditions are met. Then it will balance until cell differential drops below the value in the setting, which I set to 0.001v. I can also manually start autobalance and it will run once until all cells within 0.001v. As you mentioned you should not be balancing when oh the flat part of the curve because it just throws it way out of balance when its time to top balance it. The only thing i wish the ANT had was active balancing that would bleed any cell over the set value (3.44v in my case) and feed it to the lowest cell(s). But only because it would get it all balanced at the top in 1/10 of the time, and save a tiny bit of electricity. But as far at bottom balancing its just best to either match the cells better or buy bigger cells and use a smaller percentage of them rather than charging and discharging the same brick each cycle. Some manufacturers of commercial equipment do use very high amp active balancing to allow something with a bad cell (in a 2p+ pack) to keep going even if one cell shorts and disconnects. Then it sends a trouble call to the company and they go fix the bad battery at the next convenience. But for home use its generally overkill.

[@furcipus]

Thank you! You have helped me a lot! I hope they have better Firmware meanwhile.

[@martinbonta1592]

Anyone got latest version (4.0.3) of smart bms to connect to an android phone?

[@SiriusSolar]

QUESTION? There's only one inductor so does that mean that it can only drain one cell at a time? You asked this question to yourself in the video. I'm real curious about the answer. And then what's with all those other wires? They charge a lot more for the unit that balances more cells. So you asked yourself that question too. What's the answer to that?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I'll test it out...

[@peterking1134]

Did I not see a label marked as ‘Toast’ On the small red balancer?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hahaha, great. I'll make one! Actually, I may use the small balancer in my solar gate project with the Palo cells. That may actually work...

[@antisuru]

Thanks for explaining about cheep chinees products which didn't test by them

[@krg038]

Thanks for your testing. Jkbms is under $75usd and as you know bms and balancer. There is also a 6amp for 8s.

[@noelbondad7423]

JK BMS prices just went down. I bought mine earlier and now theres NEW prices advertised.

[@danmc1313]

@@noelbondad7423 Where is the best place to buy a JK BMS? Alibaba? Direct?

[@noelbondad7423]

@@danmc1313 i got it using Andys LINK. They have sinced come down in prices.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks guys, links and prices here: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/

[@josephcullen2512]

I wonder whether the cell volt high protect setting could be referring to what you want this balancer to do which is begin balancing when one cell is high... or whether this setting could be used in this way

[@davegeorge7094]

Chinese folks frown on their own universities, so they go to USA. Where did DALY engineers go to?

[@FutureSystem738]

Thanks Andy, great test, JK BMS complete with excellent 2A balancing for the win, again! SO GLAD I didn’t ever buy a DALY as I nearly did 6 months ago.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Did you get your JK back yet? Yeah, Daly is still a big brand but the products are not ready for prime time. Unless you need a BMS for 500A, Daly is pretty much the only brand who makes one in this size (except the relay BMS out there).

[@FutureSystem738]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes thanks Andy, received my replacement 4s-8s (12v) JK BMS back, and postage refund. The only SLOW part of the process was postage from this end. Their replacement, once they received my faulty one, was very quick. I have no complaints about their customer service (though I have not yet had time to test the replacement.)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@FutureSystem738 sounds good, thanks for your feedback.

[@FutureSystem738]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia THANK YOU Andy 👍

[@GlaucusBlue]

It looks like it going of average cell volts, when it reaches 3.175 it switched off at 3.225 it switched on, or roughly those voltages I don't think it cares what the cell voltages are just pack voltage divided by cells

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, I haven't paid attention to that. I'll do some more testing and see what I can find out. Thanks.

[@hulkgqnissanpatrol6121]

Are your ones fake? 🤔 The ones I find are all aluminium....

[@peternyberg6150]

I bought one after watching your video, this one I can set when the balancer should start, tried 3.20v and it's no problem 🤗

[@jamest.5001]

For the price seems they wouldn't look so cheap!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The plastic looks very cheap, almost faded from the sun.

[@repairman2be250]

A bit nasty, but those sound like they have empty components inside as well.

[@inmyimage1081]

Another good video. Really wish I hadn’t bought all my stuff while watching Will Prowse. His love of Daly caused me to buy two 250A models. No problems so far, but haven’t put my side into production yet either.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The BMSes are not too bad except from the balancing part. If you add one of these capacitive active balancers for maintenance purposes and activate it from time to time, it will be OK. I have one 250A Daly in use for while in one of my 12V batteries and beat the crap out of it with the Peter inverter and my electric chainsaw. Not problem with this BMS so far.

[@SiriusSolar]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia so if somebody has a Daly BMS and they also want to buy the Daly active balancer I see in the app you can see both but can you see both at the same time? Does your phone then connect to two different Bluetooth devices simultaneously? One at a time? Or does the active balancer communicate through a cable to the regular balancer and then get forwarded through the Bluetooth to your app in your phone?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@SiriusSolar they both communicate through Bluetooth. That is a very good question if the app allows two connections at the same time. I would say you will see only one device at a time. I'll test this as well...

[@inmyimage1081]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Good to know, Thx. As a direct result of your efforts I have decided to get 2 of the 5A Heltec balancers, 1 for each of my pack. Appreciate all the effort you put into these videos.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@inmyimage1081 thank you. That's a great choice, they will work well.

[@smca7271]

Your doing better than me,active balancer never works 16s..bluetooth will only work once after a reinstall of software....smart? Safe? I have no confidence in this saftey system and I'm sorry I bought it. I had a balancer on my li-ion battery for 3yrs,worked great....think I'll put that on my new lifepo4 battery....Hope people watch your channel forwarned is forarmed.

[@martinbonta1592]

I have the smart version but it will not connect at all to my android phone. Older app version on Iphone works. Daly support says that i need to figure it out.

[@edwardvanhazendonk]

Just confirming the JK 4-8S 200A 2A active balance BMS is working like a charm. Really glad you showed us their BMSes.

[@noelbondad7423]

Me too. I only bought this after watching Andys video.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It is a great BMS, right? I really like it a lot.

[@HiltonT69]

Daly: We understand LiFePO4. Poorly.

[@DavidHalko]

I am surprised you did not test a JK active balancer, without the BMS… they make one!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, but isn't that the same as the NEEY just with the same JK app?

[@DavidHalko]

Hi Andy@@OffGridGarageAustralia - Same as the NEEY? I don’t know. The photos of the JK active equalizer boards looks the same as a Heltec active equalizer… they both have 1 & 2 amp options. The JK active balancer board looks different from the latest 4th NEEY active balancer board. The latest NEEY has a 4 amp balancer.

[@ocular57]

No the Neey and JK active balancer (standalone) are different. The JK active balancer relies on delta V setting to turn on/off balancing. The JK active balancer has no setting to turn off below 3.4V .

[@KurtBarcelona]

What is your BMS? Is it Daly? Or would be alright using a non daly bms?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I would not recommend the Daly BMS. Use a JK-BMS: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/

[@theshepard22]

I only WISH I could have my bms settings on my pixel 4a android! The JK bms seems like a good alternative to Overkill Solar's, if they can't fix their app in a few weeks or so.

[@FutureSystem738]

I’m delighted with my two JK BMSs, on the iOS app. Is it not working on your Android pixel phone? Is there a phone compatibility problem with the App?

[@theshepard22]

That's great! No it's supposed to work on Android as well, but only the iPhone app or the PC download works. I only have android devices though.

[@mikasjoman]

Hi dod you get this working? I installed a 20s version (21p) and it shows correctly in the app. But damn if it doesnt really balance anything. It starts for a few seconds (lowest 3.365v and highest 3.45v) but after two days of being connected the difference is the same as before. Wonder if you figured it out - sucks to not have it balancing.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's a software issue and only an update from Daly can fix that.

[@alexandergunda8916]

Andy, it's NOR a HW or a SW issue with the App - it's a firmware issue of the balancer but that can be easly fixed by Daly (if they want)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They got in contact with me... but no sign of improvement with their products.

[@WXSTANG]

You can see that the active balancer has a CPU, and many transistors on the outputs. I would wager it monitors incomming power on each cell and PWM modulates the output of each cell at the same time by switching the transistors.

[@nicklausarakawa4274]

I wonder if it would be a good idea to use a NEEY Active Balancer in the Seploas BMS, as the current could balance the pack quickly and evenly.

[@SmokiesDen]

That's my current plan. I want the seplos to communicate with my mppsolar inverter/charger and the neey for balancing.

[@danmc1313]

was wondering and asked the exact same thing.

[@HG-Pilot]

Could be not a good idea unless you disable the native seplos bms balancing

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

There is definitely enough space to add a NEEY in that box. If it is necessary 🤷‍♂️

[@davegeorge7094]

"Hells Bells", I like that!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

yep, just one 'DOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGGG' of it.

[@insippo]

I connect it to esphome and make grafana graphs in home assistant.

[@typxxilps]

summary: not good at all Why do chinese suppliers fool their customers again and again. Hardware not precise, Software status not really at the point. Crap. Who takes the responsibility ? Luckily Neey had achieved it - and famous DALY sucked again. Say news and so much work with such a bad result.

[@noelbondad7423]

Money, profit, survival! Theres dog eat dog in among Chinese manufacturers at the moment!

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

My Neey is giving me problems too. Jk is the best

[@mansoerkasu2482]

Hi thanks alot for the video I am building a system could you assist on advising what daly bms is best for my application I have Lp44147272 (130ah) 416Wh cells i would like to build to power packs of 8 cells per pack

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

OK, so you would need a BMS for each 8 cells you connect in series. You can then parallel multiple of these pack if you want to (not sure if you have only 8 batteries or more than that). So, you will need an 8s BMS for either Li-ion or LiFePO4 cells (not sure what chemistry your battery has). How many amps, well, that depends on your load and power coming from your solar charge controller. You can go with the 8s version of the JK-BMS which also has a nice active balancer and is easy to setup. Link to the JK-BMS is here: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/

[@Oli83two]

Oh, I am demanding all I said in my last comment and claim the opposite! I think I will buy the neey balancer! Do you think that the neey is able to handle my seplos Mason rebuilt pack with 280Ah cells? Greetings from Germany. ✌

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The NEEY is great and works well. It will have no trouble balancing your batteries.

[@Oli83two]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia is there any android software for the neey 4th gen? On github there is only software available for download for the 1st till 3rd version! Or is the software for the 3rd version already running with the 4th gen neey??

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@Oli83two App version 3.1 should be the latest and will work with gen 4 of the NEEY balancer.

[@dennisyoung4631]

Need to potentially replace the BMS on the Ebike battery, so am doing the research (or trying to). I need to do one of these, too…

[@dennisyoung4631]

Addendum: got one of these on the *repaired* Ebike battery, along with a 60 amp smart BMS. Seems to be working…