"Dancing Argentine Tango Socially. A Talk on Milonga Codes", by Josefina Bermudez & Fabian Peralta

[@JeremeSalazar]

Nice social ethics codes, simple it's respect!

[@baalkaan8032]

This lesson should be teaching in every marathon, festival and local milongas.

[@juanpablo-rdm]

What is it a tango marathon? 🤔 ¿Qué es una maratón de tango?

[@mariellapugliese6389]

This is one of the most important video to watch for every milonguero. I really wished they all would adapt these codes and make life easier at the milongas ❤

[@edlee1969]

Many people treat Argentine Tango as just another social dance in the same way that Karate is just a martial art. But in both Tango and Karate, the practice can actually be an entryway into an culture from a different country. That is the sentiment here Argentine Tango teachers Peralta y Bermudez are trying to express in this video. There is an entire culture of Tango beyond the dance that everyone can enjoy and share in the responsibility to sustain. To dance the steps of Tango without knowing the title or meaning of the songs is possible but kind of like staying in the entryway of the Karate dojo without stepping into the inner halls and sanctums to be inside a different world. Sure, you can do what you feel comfortable doing but don't criticize the people and culture of another country or they should cater to you simply because you are not physically there. Consciously or not, you choose enter Argentina or Japan anytime you step into a milonga or a dojo. It is more fun and hardly a mistake to open your eyes and ears to pay attention to what is happening there, show some measure of respect for the regular inhabitants of that world, even try on the habits and behaviors of that world to possibly expand your horizons. For example, in Argentina dancing is only half of the Tango culture. There is an entire segment of Tangueros who do not dance at all but appreciate the music for its cultural and historic significance the way we may sit and enjoy a classical music performance or recording. That is how rich and deep Tango actually is in Argentina.

[@stephenmahood8724]

Keep tango small, keep it elitist, keep the riff raff out.

[@stephenmahood8724]

So tell me are you going there to dance or are you going there to defend your Ph.D. thesis?

[@mrt445]

​@@stephenmahood8724 "keep it elitist" 😂😂 They Argentine Elites were trying to ban the tango and they nearly succeeded. They definitely effected it's development.

[@ohyeah971]

I love the codigos. If the cabeceo was used in general culture we wouldn't need dating apps, it's so brilliant. I feel in the U.S. tango is one of the few places left where people attempt to have some type of polite etiquette. Tango is also one of the few places left where a man will dress well and have an elegant evening with a lady who has also made an effort. I know some say tango is changing and these codigos are falling away but I urge milonga organizers to educate dancers and encouage the traditions. I am in no way a conservative person but when it comes to the art of tango we need to preserve this beautiful culture. FYI - I'm a leader and I try my best to follow these rules. Thank you for this wonderful video.

[@alanhill2758]

Thank-you so much for such a critically important lesson to new Tango dancers. I have heard stories about attending Milonga for a year before dancing and now I begin to understand the code, the culture and the reasons behind earning the privilege to join the ronda. I am incredibly grateful to you both.

[@LisaSoulLevelHealing]

I wasnt aware of this at all. No one told me these rules. But, im sure it changes every location. As a beginner, i dance with everyone who asks me so i can learn and improve. As a beginner, i dont think its the time to be exclusive. When i become more experienced, maybe, but there is also something to be said for making everyone feel inclusive.

[@suzanahas4740]

That’s a wise type of thinking. ❤

[@chrissimmonds4383]

A great instructional video, thanks to you both, a lot of dancers need to see this.

[@chocalot2332]

Just learning tango. Thank you for sharing these codes. GREAT information!

[@dancershape]

Thank you so much!

[@mattdrat3087]

I'll add another thought followers might like to reflect on: If, after having danced and been, hopefully, followed back to the table, don't sit down and lean over whispering or talking in a secretive manner to your lady friends. Not all men have larger-than-life egos and behaving like that can be both hurtful and guarantee that neither you or your friends will be invited to dance again by that leader. If you feel the need to share something after a tanda, you might want to at least wait a a few moments before doing so. This videos main message is that we need to try to contribute to everyone having a nice time at the milonga. Just a thought!

[@soundawn]

Thank you for explaining all the codes. They are super helpful 🥰

[@dancershape]

Thank you :)

[@NiktheGreek7]

if guys followed these rules/codes in all life when interacting with women the world would be a much safer place for women....

[@juanpablo-rdm]

Hola Josefina y Fabián I understand everything pero… …por favor hagan una versión en español. Спасибо! 😉

[@ephemer7942]

Although I dance for years and care about codigos, I have to admit that your detailed explanations and telling the story of your personal introduction to the milongas gave me deeper insight - especially regarding patience and respect, which seem to be inseparable from each other. Thank you! PS: When I first noticed your video has over 35 min lenght for this topic, I rolled my eyes and was tempted to skip it. But it was worth it :)

[@dancershape]

Thank you so much for your comment and feedback!

[@stephenmahood8724]

Women are taking the lead in the social world, not marrying, focusing on their careers, taking the lead in the dating world, demanding and getting more equality in the work place. BUT....we're not supposed to ask them to dance.... because they don't like to say NO.... RIDICULOUS!!!

[@Julie-ns2mq]

Wonderful thanks ❤❤

[@cimensev3385]

Fabulous video👏👏👏❤️

[@missimist]

Very informative. Thank you!

[@molaina1974]

It's a very instructive video. Thanks a lot Dancershape to share this. I really enjoyed understanding many things here.Thanks!!!

[@dancershape]

Thank you so much for your comment!

[@juanpablo-rdm]

La primera vez que fui solo a la milonga fue en agosto del 2020 salude a todas las personas en las mesas que estaban ocupadas hasta que me senté en una pequeña mesa en una esquina. Ordene una botella de agua y esa noche fui a aprender los códigos. Había escuchado de los códigos milongueros y observaba cómo funcionaban los códigos en esa milonga de San Martín de los Andes. Miraba como bailaban las parejas, algunas solamente entre ellos, otras se invitaban entre las mesas cruzando la pista para bailar. Tarde esa noche, una mujer que bailaba muy lindo, se me acerco a la mesa para invitarme que baile con ella. Le expliqué que recién empezaba a tomar clases y estaba aprendiendo. Esa noche no baile. La segunda vez que volví, ya comencé a bailar solo con las mujeres que veía que estaban en mi nivel. Algunas tandas no las baile y mire bailar a las parejas que bailan muy bien. Hasta que en una tanda decidí cabecear a esa mujer que me había venido a buscar a la mesa la vez anterior. Bailamos muy bien. 😌 El cabeceo es muy importante. Me sucedió meses después en el Encuentro Patagónico. Había unas mujeres que vinieron de Bariloche a tomar clases, bailar en la milonga y esa noche compartimos mesa. Le pedí a una de ellas para bailar y bailamos muy apretados en la milonga había muy poco lugar. Pasado unas tandas le pedí a la amiga para bailar que bailaba mucho mejor. Pero no estaba a su nivel y bailamos un solo tango y volvimos a la mesa sin terminar la tanda. Esa noche me sentó. 😔 Unas semanas después, en una noche de diciembre coincidimos con Diego, un amigo del pueblo en Buenos Aires y fuimos a El Beso, el cabeceaba y bailaba con todas. Mi primer cabeceo fue con una mujer francesa, luego con una mujer inglesa y a la tercera con una mujer italiana. Luego vino la Orquesta Misteriosa Buenos Aires. Quería bailar y miraba la pista pero estaba completa. Me tuve que acercar a una mesa en la que había dos mujeres sentadas. A una de ella la había observado durante la noche, bailaba muy lindo y quería bailar con ella. La invite sin cabecear y me acepto. Bailamos los últimos dos tangos del repertorio y me agradeció. La acompañe a la mesa y cuando se fue la orquesta la pista se vació. Con menos gente y más lugar me acerque a otra mesa en que había dos mujeres y un hombre conversando en inglés, los salude e invite a una de ellas a la pista. Sonó La Cumparsita y sentía que ella hacía algo increíble con sus piernas. Me dijo que bailaba muy lindo pero creo que esa noche ella me bailo. 😳

[@suatertem7092]

Thank you for the beautiful video

[@dancershape]

Thank you so much, we're glad you enjoyed it!

[@AmyJill-p9u]

It was interesting for me to watch, and I found the advice to sit until the leader is in front of the follower very helpful. I have had the situation of confusion about who the cabeceo was for from both sides. Sometimes it was for me and sometimes not. I dance in Chicago. It is a small community even though we are a big city, and I am of the opinion to help my leaders. I pretty much never say no, because I want the less experienced leaders to have the help and encouragement of a more skilled follower. I recently had to have "eyes in the back of my head" so the leader didn't dance me into someone, but I hope he felt when I rejected his lead to avoid collision and learned something from it. I also remember when I knew very little, and am grateful for the leaders who had patience to help me. We need to give back and make new dancers and our whloe community feel welcome. Also as far as tripping the follower, that seems much more likely when the intermediate dancers are trying something fancy. Just the other night I ran my heel into my opposite foot because my leader stepped into me too quickly before I finished my ocho, and he knows how to dance. I believe if we make the milonga a welcoming place to be, most dancers will want to learn more. I do appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Thank You!

[@dancershape]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, and for all the beautiful work you do to nurture and grow your local tango community!

[@annap8328]

Great video and demonstrations

[@dancershape]

Thank you for your feedback!

[@leoray1234]

A very helpful video. In case I missed it, what do you say to ladies who are themselves beginners but getting a lot of cabeceos that could make them believe they are more advanced than reality?

[@eleanorlaserph.d2397]

Fabulous tangok

[@DimitrisFrini]

Oh my sweet tango God. These arrogant people, who own their fame and money to mostly european wallets, they point a finger to the majority of the tango cities and say those tango snob advices that end up encouranging egoistic behaviors. Without a geographical approach, then all the parts of this video are wrong. Where exactly are you refered at when you say that "you can go to the milonga and not dance". In a milonga in BA? Sure. Do as you please. But in a local European milonga, in a small town, that is once per week, and it gathers 30-40 crazy tango people, then "not dancing" is hurting the essense of the community. Refusing to "not good enough" dancers is killing the community. Keep the ballances. Use commong sense. Not all advises have universal appliance. Specialy from someone who is traveling the world, this should be understood and noted. I would expect more ballanced advises from these famous teachers. The more I listen the video the worst it becomes. Why is the duty of a girl/lady to "fix" anyones quality? Abusive behaviors must not be tolerated. But beyond those, level and skill elitism are a sure way to kill a tango society. If we love this culture/dance, then we all have responsibility to keep it alive. All the dancers I know, they kept dancing because they were encouraged. No one because got rejected on his first steps. We are not in the 30s. People have already to many problems in their lives, to add an extra layer of approval stress.

[@stephenmahood8724]

As a member of the baby boomer generation, I have been dancing since my undergraduate days i n the early 70's. In the US dancing is on the decline, and has been for some time. Men in the US don't want to dance. AT did not arrive in North America until the early 90's, and I didn't find it until 2004. AT is the MOST unsocial dance of the "social" dances. You will not find the level of rejection in any other form of social dancing in the US as you will experience in AT. I think the Argentines want it this way as they want to control this part of their culture totally. When one dances open embrace he/she is dancing "show" tango, a form reserved for the maestro's at shows and festivals not to be done at milongas. There are a multitude of contradictions about AT most aimed at making sure the follower maintains control of the experience.

[@CW-om2qq]

Spot on. How cute and quaint! Where are these milongas where these unwritten rules can be used? Oh BsAs in Argentina. And in Europe? Yes, a few larger, select, unwelcoming milongas in some larger city. Elsewhere it's maybe 16 to 40 tango enthusiasts in a village hall. And that may have 'atmospheric' poor lighting, an occasional table and limited seating. You can't make out someone's cabeceo across the floor. Agree about that 'walking cabeceo'! If you have to walk over to 'cabeceo', just ask. However, I'll go with 'When in Rome...'. If cabeceo/mirada is being used, and maybe segregated seating, I'll play the game. Why should I be concerned about 'saving face' if someone turns down a dance request? It's the 21st century, so get over it. And any follower can ask me for a dance. It doesn't need the ploy of chatting to my wife first, nor finding somewhere to sit with a drink, or adjust shoes... Can't think of any European milonga that I'd just go to socialise. The aim is to dance. I might take a break and watch some other dancers, or just a comfort break. Local society would have to change significantly in this geographical region to play these games.

[@suzanahas4740]

No, you are not forcing her to say no or yes, if you go to approach her in person. Many times, if you are across the room, you can’t really distinguish if a guy is really doing or not a cabaceo in your direction. A woman approached directly can always excuse herself with a smile and a kind thank you, perhaps later. I need to rest now. And a guy should never take the refusal as a rejection. Is as simple as that..

[@Mrbingles9]

Wow, you misunderstood so much from the video. If you choose not to respect these codes and pieces of advice, please, do so; it will show on the dance floor, if you are not respectful.

[@NilsFrederking]

Thanks for the informative and interesting video. (Minute 26:00) The problem with the advice to first watch all dancers before deciding whether to dance with them is, that if a dancer is new to a location and every lady follows this advice, nobody will dance with him, thus the ladies cannot see whether he is a good dancer or not. I think it is very good to be kind and to a certain extend generous, it is helpful for the athmosphere and beauty of a Milonga. So it is nice, if experienced dancers (male and female) give less experienced ones from time to time a chance to dance together, or if you see, as an experienced dancer, a woman sitting without dancing for a long time and giving the impression to be sad about it, to dance with her, if she answers your cabeceo. I experienced huge differences in milongas, from very warm and beautiful, to cold and antisocial, where in the latter, most of the time, women tend to be tense, which makes the dance much less enjoyable, even, if she is a good dancer.

[@dancershape]

Thank you so much for your comment. We're definitely on the same page. Most of the times, saying "no" to a dancer has nothing to do with their level of experience, it's rather about our own state of being at a particular moment of the milonga. So by all means, members of a community should be kind to each other. We believe this kindness can also be expressed through a nice conversation, through presenting each other to members of the community, through sharing useful information, through a smile and a hug, including through talking about the importance of taking lessons. As improving our dance is also a way of caring about each other, by making our partner feel more confortable when dancing with us.

[@tamerhafez3160]

Regarding the "No" response: I ask the same girl twice, four tandas apart. If I get a second "No" I don't ask her to dance again for several months.

[@gregorgiebel1377]

going to a milonga and not getting any dances doesnt encourage leaders to improve, it is frustrating and encourages them to quit. I am not a beginner anymore, ive been dancing since I was 15 and I am 23 now. And still: whenever I go to a new milonga I feel like many women wont dance with anyone they dont know. I get a partners for my tandas now, but if you havent mastered your cabaceo yet and if you actually dont dance that well its super difficult. Its just a hostile atmosphere for beginners that sucks out the motivation. I dont know why you encourage people to exclude beginners even more. I dont know where you live, but in my area the scene is super old and not that big. Whenever I see young people that are just starting I try to be nice to them and talk with them and dance with them, although I know that the tanda probably wont be that enjoyable. I also do Salsa and I dont know if you realise that but its so much more welcoming and easy for new dancers to get into the scene there. And there are so many young people there. I would wish for milongas to be more like that. edit: also, since you were specifically talking about leaders: I feel like this problem of dancers „only learning on milongas“ and having awful technique even after many years of dancing is much more common amongst followers.

[@dancershape]

Thank you so much for your comment, Gregor. You’re raising a very important issue. Saying ‘no’ is indeed not a must, it’s a personal choice that should be respected, just like a limit you can have in any type of interaction, connection or relationship (sharing a dance implies a connection, as well), and it doesn’t imply not talking to, or being rude to the person you have refused to dance with on a certain milonga night. You can refuse to dance on one night for different reasons, but it’s not forever. Also, saying ‘no’ doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be inclusive with beginners or new dancers in the community. On the contrary, it’s beautiful to take the time and explain the usual codes of the milonga. Also, take in consideration that milonga codes may differ in different communities and of course, it's highly advisable to take them into consideration, and adapt to them.

[@CW-om2qq]

"Also, take in consideration that milonga codes may differ in different communities and of course, it's highly advisable to take them into consideration, and adapt to them. " This is the key point, and should have been the first major point. We're not in Buenos Aires in Argentina. Different default social rules apply. The milonga venue is significantly different. These rules are sometimes just not possible. The key is 'respect' to other dancers and dance partners. Snooty, top-level, city milongas fail with this by respecting 'rules' over people. But, if those are still the current rules in Argentina (it seems to be changing), visitors should respect those.

[@samaval9920]

Does this apply to older Argentine folk dances?

[@faviorodriguez4926]

💪💪💪💪♥️♥️♥️👍👍👍

[@mamborambo]

Although it is understandable for milonga ladies to use rejections to "nudge" the men towards improving, there is also a compelling argument to bring kindness and inclusiveness into the dance floor and helping the community cultivate a friendly non-judgemental space. As a dance teacher I teach the logic of nudging, but as a milonga organiser I disagree with promoting snooty self-importance that create a chilly climate for beginners. In the end the "maestros" may look at Buenos Aires and its 50,000 dancers as a benchmark, but many local scenes may only have 100 regular dancers in a town.

[@dancershape]

Thank you for your comment @mamborambo2! It's a very good one. Of course we need to be able to bring balance to our communities, while respecting our own boundaries as dancers and humans, and doing it in a kind way towards everyone involved, no matter the size of our community. In case we, as a woman or man, choose to say "No", we should always do it in a kind, not cutting way, followed by a conversation, so that the person who receives a "No" understands it's not personal at all, and it's not forever either. Tango is about interpersonal relationships after all, and so we need to be able to empathize with each other, communicate in a non violent away, as well as set and respect boundaries.

[@stephenmahood8724]

How can someone not feel that they are not a good enough dancer when they hear the word ‘no’?

[@TalkingNewt]

​@@stephenmahood8724There are a lot of other reasons someone would say no. Some are personal: disliking your appearance, your smell, your body attitude, the way you asked, etc.; others are not: not liking the music being played, being tired, not in the mood at the moment, having another partner in mind, waiting for the restroom, etc.

[@stephenmahood8724]

So, just like a high pressure singles bar. Wanting to dance with someone else...well why not ask that someone else over to his or her place and dance all night long with that person.@@TalkingNewt

[@peterjd3170]

@mamborambo ... Excellently put! ... It's that very manner that turns many beginners away from tango, because their experience is one of arrogant people looking down at beginners

[@CW-om2qq]

I do understand about the novices being in the middle. It used to be the situation in other dance genres. Except, here in Europe, it seems those who think they're superior, who need more space to express themselves with their 'advanced' moves, grab and monopolise that middle space. The actual better dancers keep to the outer ronda - along with the novices, unless they get squeezed out. Floorcraft and respect to others (perhaps the best summary of these 'rules'), are frequently lacking. I don't see 'respect for some unwritten rule' as important; more about respecting each other within the local culture.

[@cbts0029]

A better dancer can also handle the inner circle, to dance in the outer circle is no indication for a better dancer. To be in the outer circle is only a indication you are ealier than others at the Dancefloor.

[@stephenmahood8724]

Glad that Cabeceo is not universal here in the good ole USA.

[@grzegorzptaszek978]

Hi, It was interesting to watch. It is also something sad and a bit irritatinng in all of that. Women here are just perfect and they are here to teach how to behave and the guys need to apply and please to be welcomed. Is it the antimacho appology now?

[@alanadavies6470]

Tienen algo de mucha importancia a decir. Desafortunadamente, su coconomiento de Ingles es pobre entonces no es claro lo que dicen.

[@sufergieferdy5810]

Should Stop dancing Argentine Tango, ??

[@NeilPenesis]

I have to laugh... If you Want to talk and the music is too loud.Then why have codes... Ah the irony...

[@PAULAGDIAZ]

Digo no cuando no me apetece bailar, pero no por una cuestión de nivel. Todo el mundo tiene derecho a bailar y muchos no alcanzan un buen nivel por mucho que quieran. Creo que hay un problema serio de snobismo en el tango

[@carabosse4]

As a woman, when you are older..you do not dance anymore, because no man invites you... it is just horrible and sad, sitting on a chair, as a flower dying alone...no matter if you dance very well, you do not exist for the others anymore...and some women continue to think that they dance only with men...that it is not true. at the end, the women who organized the milongas leaves ...you see no eye in a milonga..Nobody says hello..sometimes a man invites you, it is a beginner and it is just HORRIBLE...the men do not practice, and it is just HORRIBLE. I could cry yesterday night, and the day before, etc...people are very bad educated...The eyes are always for a young lady just behind me..I should die.They only dance with people they know already..

[@marialanusse3867]

CABECEO IS A MAIN CRUCIAL RULE TO AVOID TALKING. WHAT THE HECK ARE THIS GUYS TALKING ABOUT. YOU DONT NEED TO TALK. DANCERS DONT NEED TO TALK. DKNT.NEED TO SAY "NO". THIS GUYS ARE A SHAME. NK EVEN SPEAK CORRECT ENGLISH.

[@juanpablo-rdm]

NK… 🤔 …is not the proper manner to write in English 🧐

[@teoallen6715]

Very Elites mindset and not forgiving. No wonder in many places, tango community can’t grow and is Aging. What is feel “Safe “ in dancing …??? A poor leader can cause the life danger to the follower ?

[@ludmilaivanova1603]

unfortunately, a poor dancer who cannot keep the balance can cause the lady to fall down or hurt her legs or even those, who dance close to the couple. Bear in mind high heels of ladies....

[@stephenmahood8724]

Here in America there is swing, salsa, ballroom, contra, folk, all forms, the only one where the women routinely say no is AT.

[@ludmilaivanova1603]

@@stephenmahood8724 I did not know this, have been in AT for years.

[@stephenmahood8724]

You don't learn anything sitting on your keester.@@ludmilaivanova1603

[@TalkingNewt]

Poor leading can indeed do much damage, especially in tango. Extreme examples are collisions, less visible ones are back or shoulder injuries. Some followers report having to stop dancing for months because of one bad leader.

[@marialanusse3867]

Para decir si o no es el cabeceo. Tegla innata del tanfo. De que hablan estos dos? Ke verguenza😢

[@marialanusse3867]

Cavemen Regla para no tener ke hablar. Estos chicos ademas no hablan ingles.

[@marialanusse3867]

CABECEO. DONT TALK. DONT SAY NO. THIS GUYS ARE A SHAME.

[@juanpablo-rdm]

Qué vergüenza me da leer… 🙈 …la forma en que escribís en español 🙊