Dangerous Last Moment 2nd Train Activation At Dymchurch St Mary's Road Level Crossing, Kent 27/10/24

[@tibsie]

This is why it's the lights, not the barriers, that tell you it's safe. You shouldn't go until the lights go out, of course people go the second the barriers go up, but they shouldn't.

[@CristiNeagu]

It's a bad design. The barriers should not go up.

[@clockwork3494]

Indeed, I've only ever gone before the lights shut off on one occasion, and that was when a dumbass truckie was too lazy to stop and instead decided to scare the blazes out of me by blaring his horn loudly at me until I moved off the road.. I was thinking he had braking issues until he pulled up 10 meters away from me for a cigarette break. I was not happy that day.

[@kevinzz276]

The red lights continue until the barrier reaches about 45 degrees. If the second train strikes in after the barriers start to rise but before they reach the cut off point, the lights will continue to flash, indicating a second train coming. As stated elsewhere on this post, cars should not proceed while the lights are still flashing, but we know they do as soon as they can get under the barrier. Unfortunately from my railway experience with road users, they more likely to ignore the lights at a level crossing than at a normal set of traffic lights.

[@GlenHoff-p2v]

Inform H&S of this issue to prevent accidents. A wise move.

[@beeble2003]

This is a dangerous system, because it gives mixed messages that encourage drivers to make mistakes. Why do the barriers go down? Because it's not safe to cross. So why do they go back up again? Must be because it's now safe to cross, right? Wrong. Wait, what? The barriers shouldn't look like they're saying "go" while the lights are saying "stop".

[@VRTrucker]

I'd say the most dangerous aspect of this is the car that has been parked about 15 feet from the barrier.

[@rayjennings3637]

You'd have thought that there would be double yellows there!

[@tahrey]

Eh, I think perspective foreshortening is deceptive here. That car looks to be decidedly further back than where the front of the black Juke stops (itself reasonably clear of the stop line), maybe even behind it entirely. And we can see that there's space for not only the Juke but the silver MPV to fit between the stopline and the track boundary on each side. So you've got a good two-car gap on the far side. If you're driving something longer then it's kind of on you to make sure there's space on the other side before starting across. Of course that doesn't mean some idiot won't tailgate the first two cars across who have to then give way to what's oncoming, just as the lights come on, but they've then got the better part of ten seconds to sort themselves out before the barriers are fully closed, and another thirty to forty after that to negotiate a way out around the half-bars or wiggle into the car-sized space between the far stop line and the track boundary. How long a safety gap should we have reserved each side of this well engineered crossing of a low speed miniature railway with what looks like good sightlines for the train drivers? (sure, it's fast for what it is, but if they're doing more than 10-15mph i'd be surprised) ... at some point you have to cut it off for practical reasons, and to not unnecessarily inconvenience the local residents. (edit: Actually, taking a peek on google maps ... looks like the white line itself is about 30ft from the boundary, and the front of that car might therefore be 40ft or more. I don't think it's far enough for a maximum-length HGV or bus to fit, but St Mary's Road doesn't look like the kind of road you'd take either of those up anyway... it's a back country lane that'd be lucky to offer a continuous two lane width, and ultimately meets back up with the same A-road that it comes off at the coast. This is basically the limit of the built up area and the only other civilisation inbetween are farms, a tiny hamlet, and a caravan park... the vehicles parked within likely going in and out the other way, but would all fit in the gap anyway)

[@williamarmstrong646]

@@tahreyYou'd be surprised as to speed then. I don't know whether the trains have a speed restriction re level crossings but they will go up to 25mph, the maximum for a light railway.

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@VRTrucker The "Dangerous" aspect of the video is actually the Re-lowering of the barriers. Some drivers do not wait for the Wigwags to stop flashing so they presume the crossing is safe to cross when they see the barriers raising. However the Re-lowering of the barriers will not be expected by the driver, therefore there is risk of the barriers landing on a car or a person. This can be demonstrated with the car seen in the video not waiting for the lights to turn off. However do take note that this is a fail safe system which indeed happened in this video, if this system was not fail safe the crossing would have fully deactivated and the train could have crossed a crossing that was not activated IF the train couldn't stop in time.

[@stevebarlow3154]

@VRTrucker There is nowhere for the local homeowners to park, except on the pavement.

[@bjornkeizers]

I was not expecting the pint-sized train; that's adorable.

[@trevormillar1576]

It's the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway in Kent.

[@fritz46]

Probably the longest and fastest 381 mm (15") gauge railway in the world.

[@picanto12]

​@@fritz46thanks for the information. I read the end as "railway (pause) in the world" ala Clarkson.

[@keithcornell692]

But in the second world war one of these little trains claimed a German Messerschmitt 109 the pilot saw a train dived to attack it then realised he was to low & crashed

[@garyellis8836]

The trains were armoured and armed in ww2

[@TomsWorkshop42]

I think the title is misleading… should read “dangerous drivers endanger numerous lives by ignoring red lights at level crossing…”

[@beeble2003]

No, the crossing is unsafe. A safe system would not allow people to make this mistake, by not simultaneously suggesting that it's safe to go (raising the barriers) and unsafe to go (keeping the lights on).

[@TomsWorkshop42]

@ it is not safe to go until the barriers are completely stowed. The barriers are a backup, the lights are what tells you it’s safe to go.

[@tooleyheadbang4239]

@@TomsWorkshop42 This is correct.

[@traveller23e]

@@TomsWorkshop42 A backup system shouldn't fail before the primary system though

[@TomsWorkshop42]

@ it hasn’t failed… it raised because nothing was in section to activate it, it automatically raises when there’s nothing within a certain distance, then the next train approached which activated the next sequence. Think of an automatic door closing while you’re walking towards it and as it’s almost shut you activate it so it starts to open…

[@russelltaylor7779]

The sign actually tells people if the lights continue then another train is coming.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Even so , the barriers should not have been raised until the other train had passed

[@mjt8199]

​@@peterwilliamallen1063 It looks like a case of unfortunate timing. Under normal circumstances this wouldn't have happened based on the railway's timetable (looks like the autumn gala weekend) however any deviation from the timetable can lead to an occurrence like this. It's incredibly uncommon for it to happen even on the mainline railway. The crossing worked as designed, the sirens continued to sound and the lights remained on. The signage is clear. The only dangerous parts were the dummies ignoring the red lights. Nothing to see here, move along now.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@mjt8199 This is still bad practice concidering what has happened in the past on these crossings where at least two loco crew have died having collided with cars on these crossings, on the main Railway if another train is comming even with the same sighnage the barriers do not lift and stay down due to the speed of trains and the chance of a vehicl being hit with the barriers only going back up when the last train has passed, the times I have sat at a level crossing waiting for ages for the barrier to raise just because another train is comming. With Human nature no matter what the sighn says if the barriers go up people will jump the lights as happened in the video which would end up with a collision

[@ruairidhmunro]

Niether drive had obviously read the clear signs, which specifically say that if the light continue to flash that they should wait.

[@beeble2003]

A safe system shouldn't depend on people reading the signs. There is a natural assumption that the gates, sirens and lights are all conveying the same information so once the gates are lifted, people will naturally assume it is safe to cross. They shouldn't be given the opportunity to make that mistake.

[@RushfanUK]

@@beeble2003 Lights activate before barriers and it clearly states that if the lights continue to flash then a second train is coming, you should never assume in situations like this, a red light means stop irrespective of the barriers and it's not about opportunity it's about drivers lazy attitudes and the standards of driving which have gotten worse.

[@beeble2003]

@@RushfanUK No, it's about design of safe systems. If a system relies on "drivers not assuming" to be safe, then it is not safe, because people WILL assume, even though they're not supposed to, and even people who know to wait for the lights WILL sometimes make mistakes.

[@AudieHolland]

We have practically the same system here in The Netherlands. Drivers learn at their own peril. Are you in a hurry? Are you so much in a hurry that not waiting a few more seconds till the lights have gone off is more important than continuing with living?

[@911HRW]

@@beeble2003Red lights go left and right on a closed lane on a motorway too. I suppose we shouldn’t rely on a legal warning system, we should wait until we hit a stationary object then moan the system isn’t safe

[@ginvr]

The only dangerous things were the buffoons who jumped red lights

[@jackwalker4874]

Unfortunately it's necessary to consider morons when designing things. If car drivers could be trusted to obey the rules then the crossings would still be AOCLs

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

But also the barriers should not of raised creating a dangerouse situation

[@MonaroTravels]

Why do so many drivers think it's OK to pass a red flashing light like this. Used to see it all the time by a fire station we lived near!

[@beeble2003]

Fire station is a different situation, as there are no gates, there.

[@MonaroTravels]

@beeble2003 It’s not about the gates, its about the alternating flashing red lights

[@beeble2003]

@@MonaroTravels The crossing is a badly designed system. Safe systems don't let users make mistakes. This system gives mixed messages: the gates appear to be saying "It's safe to cross" while the lights are saying "It is not safe to cross". That enables drivers to make the mistake of crossing when it is not safe. The law says it's not about the gates, but the gates are the thing that's right in front of the driver, while the lights are off to the side.

[@mike-charlesjim-sadler3559]

Mostly because thety are bellends and can't be arsed with the rules!

[@MonaroTravels]

@@beeble2003 The gates are no excuse for this bad driving. There's even a big sign saying that another train will be along if the lights continue to flash. I bet these drivers would do the same thing at the fire or ambulance stations too, I've seen it too many times, it's pretty shocking!

[@witzendoz]

In Australia it’s illegal to cross until the red lights are completely off

[@steveC2]

It is here

[@Renard380]

It is everywhere. The barriers are a means to physically prevent you from going through, they are not a signal. The red lights are what drivers must obey.

[@pengo34789]

Yet lots of people still do it in Aus, most drivers just look at the boom gates and if you follow the lights you might get honked at for being too slow

[@swills9]

Same in the UK

[@AudieHolland]

Don't know if it's illegal in The Netherlands but if a motorist crosses while the lights are on, chances are they won't be doing any driving in the future.

[@ClovenCake]

My teacher once said "Everything can be dangerous if you're stupid."

[@TheHoveHeretic]

Most usually, dangerous for other people.

[@CristiNeagu]

This is just bad design. If the lights stay on, then the system knows there's another train coming. If that's the case, why even raise the barriers?

[@captainbimble]

Exactly what I thought!

[@Reggyrail]

I think there is a design issue there I agree.

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@CristiNeagu the thing nobody noticed is this is a "fail safe" design. The Tiny floodlight (located on the back of the offside wigwags, one is visible in the video) is an indicator to anyone with a keen eye. You can see it turns off, this is done when the level crossing starts its Deactivating Sequence. However part way through this sequence it Re-Illuminates This being the Activation Plunger Operated by the Station Dispatcher was pressed, This Would Activate The Crossing Normally OR if there is another train would Cause The Level Crossing to go into "Another Train Coming" mode where the barriers stay down and lights continue to flash however the alarms speed up as an audible warning. This didnt happen simply because the plunger was pressed too late as the De-activating sequence had already started and the barrier had to finish rasing before being able to lower again. To clear up any other confusion, the "Dangerous" part of this video is the fact that the car almost could of got hit by the unexpected re-lowering of the barriers NOT the timing of the train reaching the crossing. To answer your question about Wigwags, they usually wont turn off until the barriers have raised to just under 45°

[@paul-ie6wi]

@@RH_TransportPhotographyand there are people dying in war zones…famine…drought and all your interested in is your stupid wig wamps (whatever there called) you boring freak of nature 😂😂

[@rogerphelps9939]

Absolutely. It is designed to cause confusion because most drivers very rarely come across anything like this.

[@Simon-Davis]

People have been killed on crossings on this railway, and it has ALWAYS been the road vehicle at fault by failing to obey signed instruction. The sign clearly reads "ANOTHER TRAIN COMING if lights continue to show", the danger is the retards in the cars failing to obey signed instruction and crossing while the lights are still showing, which is also a breach of driving laws. Those laws state "You MUST always obey the flashing red stop lights" and "You MUST wait if a train goes by and the red lights continue to flash. This means another train will be passing soon". Relevant laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 40. Report those drivers for breach of law and dangerous driving, this video is evidence of that.

[@captainbimble]

Then the barriers should not be raised until the second train has passed. Very poor designed crossing.

[@peterhanahoe4913]

@@captainbimble You should not pass red lights, that is pretty well universal where such things exist. The way a UK crossing works, which I'm sure you know,, is to flash amber (which people should stop at but don't) then double flashing red (which people really, really should stop at but don't always) then the barriers drop. (some people still don't stop) I'd like to have railway crossings just have normal traffic lights which people re far more familiar with. Those drivers would be far less likely to proceed if they had a normal red traffic light in front of them. I don't understand why the barriers lift when the lights re still red either.

[@beeble2003]

@@peterhanahoe4913 Yes, of course you shouldn't pass red lights. But this crossing gives mixed messages: the gates seem to be saying it's OK to go while the lights still say stop. A safe system wouldn't let people make that mistake.

[@TX200AA]

No. The railway should fix their crossings so that barriers only rise when the lights stop flashing.

[@Simon-Davis]

Once more for the idiots in the back, and I choose my words carefully there, because idiots have cost people lives....the barriers are there to prevent access, the LIGHTS control traffic. The barriers have NO relevance in the control of traffic. Or would you pull up to a lights controlled crossroads, but drive across on reds because there is a huge gap in the crossing traffic that you would easily pass through? How about on the same crossroads, but there is a lollipop for school kids crossing. Do you drive on because the lollipop has moved out of the road, or do you check the lights first? That is literally all these barriers are, an automatic lollipop. How on earth would you deal with an ungated railway crossing? Because these and dozens of other crossings used to be ungated. Do you drive across while the lights are flashing simply because the train has passed? Or how about when you encounter these lights at a fire or ambulance station and you've seen one drive out but the lights are still red? Seen that happen too when the second emergency vehicle drives out but people have already decided to drive on.

[@doctordeej]

Quite clearly states that another train is coming if the lights continue to flash.

[@dogmannz]

And if this is a problem then the signals should be modified so the barriers don't raise until the lights are out. It's not rocket science.

[@mf8023]

Similar crossings on the mainline don't seem to have this problem. If another train is coming the barriers stay down.

[@ArxCyberwolfPC]

Most mainline crossing are manually controlled and thus the operators know another train will be approaching. (all quad barrier crossings are manual.) This one is automatic, the second train hadn't reached the activation loop before the crossing began deactivating after the first train cleared the circuit. It's not a fault with the crossing itself, just unfortunate timing.

[@mf8023]

@ArxCyberwolfPC thanks 😊

[@fetchstixRHD]

​@@ArxCyberwolfPC: At least on the "mainline", if I recall correctly, it should be such that if "...another approaching train is so close that a minimum of 10 seconds road open time cannot be achieved[, then] the barriers [at AHBs and ABCLs] should remain lowered and the intermittent red lights should continue to flash." I would be quite surprised if this didn't need to apply to "other" railways...

[@iainstenhouse8399]

@@fetchstixRHD​​⁠​⁠Strike ins are sited at circa 40s from the crossing to give you circa 30s minimum + 10s Minimum Road Opening Time. The two scenarios should be, second train strikes in before the first strikes out, barriers stay lowered. Alternatively, second train strikes in, after first one has strikes out, barriers raise and remain there for 10s before lowering.

[@esww88]

Love that railway, many happy memories from my childhood were made on that line.

[@SeagullPete]

It's quite clear than no-one understands how railway crossings work from the railway perspective. The crossing goes through a cycle, and only when the lights are flashing red, and barriers fully down does a white flashing light show to the train driver. The train driver will stop the train if he hasn't got the correct authority to proceed.

[@garryferrington811]

Those little engines are powerful!

[@richardananedickinson4812]

I presume this is the Hyde and Dymchurch railway and both the lights and with the audible warning with the barriers are safety critical as a mishap here involving a car would lead to a horrendous casualty rate

[@stuartbrewer1207]

There’s no confusion here. The lights were still going and there was another train coming, as per signage

[@Mike-xq1cq]

I used to have a caravan in New romney, and i could hear the trains whistling every morning i was there!

[@Rob1972Gem]

I think this is the miniature railway we’re in World War II. It was commandeered by the war department and some of the rolling stock had anti-aircraft guns or something like that attached to them and there was a German plane that was shooting at the railway misjudged his height in the plane because of the smallness of the railway And accidentally flew into the ground. I think it’s something like that. I’m pretty sure you can go online and find photos of this railway back in second world war with the role in stock all painted up in like army drab green

[@garryferrington811]

That's quite an amazing story. I can see that happening!

[@richardhunt1384]

Been years since I went in this railway. Need to take my boys on it at some point. 😃

[@picanto12]

Probably the cutest railway (pause)...in the world.🚂🚂

[@TheShanampan]

It is. I was lucky enough to travel on the RHAD way back in the '60s, happy days😀

[@nigelanscombe8658]

It’s in the Highway Code that you should “Only cross when the lights go off and barriers open.” “… Rule 293 Controlled Crossings. Most crossings have traffic light signals with a steady amber light, twin flashing red stop lights (see ‘Light signals controlling traffic’ and ‘Traffic signs’) and an audible alarm for pedestrians. They may have full, half or no barriers. You MUST always obey the flashing red stop lights. You MUST stop behind the white line across the road. Keep going if you have already crossed the white line when the amber light comes on. Do not reverse onto or over a controlled crossing. You MUST wait if a train goes by and the red lights continue to flash. This means another train will be passing soon. Only cross when the lights go off and barriers open. Never zig-zag around half-barriers, they lower automatically because a train is approaching. At crossings where there are no barriers, a train is approaching when the lights show. “

[@beeble2003]

Right but safe systems don't let people make mistakes. The barriers lower because it's unsafe to cross. So it's a natural assumption that, if the barriers open, it's now safe to cross. Thus, one part of the crossing is giving a message that is naturally interpreted as "it is safe to cross", while another part is giving the message "it is not safe to cross". That is unnecessary confusion, and it induces people to make mistakes.

[@wilhelmvonn9619]

​@@beeble2003 Exactly.

[@jantjarks7946]

People made a license. If they are unfit to keep the license, some walking (to the train station) might be the better option for them.

[@AudieHolland]

I live in a village in The Netherlands that has a train station. The railroad is actually pretty heavily travelled both by local trains and fast trains. At the railroad crossing, neither car nor bike moves untill the lights have completely gone off. EDIT: sometimes, another train will come only just after the barriers have been lifted. But like in this video, the only danger is that a barrier may hit a car, which will cause negligible damage to the car. Trains do not appear suddenly, only after the barriers have been completely lowered again. And the reason the barriers only reach for halfway across the street is that it will allow any unfortunate motorist that was 'caught' while in the act of crossing, to drive on after the barrier has been lowered.

[@InvictaView]

Good comment Comrade. Problem here is a lack of discipline. There was a time, as in most European countries too, you just don't break the law, but its rife all over nowadays. In my experience in Belgium, nobody would ever cross the road, ever, on a green light, even if the roads are completely empty, no one would move, except us Brits, we'd say, what the hell, its all clear! I digress. Discipline is out the window today. 👍🇬🇧💯🤔

[@AudieHolland]

@@InvictaView Not so much discipline as simple will to survive methinks. Dutch pedestrians and bicyclists do not wait for one second if a light is red and there's no traffic. However, everybody knows trains are no joke. So we respect trains, so we live.

[@InvictaView]

@@AudieHolland That surprises me. In Antwerp, I had a policeman, with a side arm too, tap me on the shoulder with his baton, which stopped me dead, because I wanted to cross an empty lane on the red man signal, right outside Central Station. He was not amused. Lesson learned that day, only 6 years ago. 👍💯🇬🇧😎✔

[@AudieHolland]

@@InvictaView Well, in Amsterdam, just go with the flow. You're safer in the herd and police are not enforcing pedestrian rules. Cars won't attack when confronted by superior numbers.

[@InvictaView]

@@AudieHolland Sounds like standards have slipped everywhere these days. Red lights in the UK seem to be treated as an inconvenience to be ignored at will these days. Take care. 👍 🇬🇧😎

[@TattedFaceJoey]

If you look at the signal across the track, there is a white light on it. I think this is to say the signal is activated. When the first train goes by, the light goes off for a second then back on. This tells the barriers to lift. There must not be an interruption detection mechanism, so the barriers have to complete lifting to go back down.

[@Froggyman145]

There's literally signs saying "ANOTHER TRAIN IS COMING if lights continue to show". Some people need their licenses revoked and their organs sold on eBay.

[@OlafProt]

😂😂😂 right?

[@BrianClark-m4t]

Idealy there should be two barrier on both side of the crossing and should have stayed lowered until the second train has passed.

[@johnjephcote7636]

I live by the GN main line. We have full barriers and despite long weights between trains (owing to a long signalling section) vehicles simply have to wait.

[@johnjephcote7636]

Waits...typo.

[@garryferrington811]

Why do the trains have weights between them? Are they too light or something?

[@deccomcg]

Not dangerous if you know the highway code. Sadly many don't...

[@gwishart]

Even for drivers who don't know that particular part of the highway code, there's still a massive sign that tells you that another train is coming if the lights keep flashing.

[@petergaskin1811]

Or indeed if you can actually read the signs.

[@talltim10]

To all those saying that the crossing shouldn’t start the opening sequence in case there is a second train, how long should it wait to check?

[@Mounhas]

My family used to have an old bungalow near Greatstone, garden was 50% stones, and this line was behind the back garden. At that time the Ashford to Dungeness BR line was parallel to the RHDR (as my memory serves me) and my dad returning from work would get dropped off between New Romney & Greatstone.

[@MartynJones-o2m]

Two cars went through a RED light

[@ginobragoli1448]

Was expecting an intercity 125 or something similar to come through at top speed not Thomas 😊

[@fp6343]

So, two cars crossed even though there was red light.

[@Sonya_Makepeace]

That made me LOL! I was expecting something bigger.🤣

[@cmaburns]

Thanks for posting I have reported this to the railway

[@davidpnewton]

What do the signs say? "ANOTHER TRAIN COMING if lights continue to show" What did the lights do? THEY CONTINUED TO SHOW! What does that mean? ANOTHER TRAIN IS COMING!!! Now ideally the barriers should not have raised, and that is something which needs dealing with. However both drivers were fundamentally at fault here. They ignored the signs. They ignored the flashing red lights. They ignored the warning claxons. Both drivers committed the offence of dangerous driving. Both should ideally have been prosecuted for it.

[@officialmcdeath]

There are loads of level crossing videos from Switzerland where the barriers are down for several minutes before the train passes - the design here plays to the impatience of the British driver \m/

[@beeble2003]

Same here in the UK: the train cannot be given a green signal until the barriers are down. This means that, on a high-speed line, the barriers may come down about two minutes before the train comes past, because that's how far back the signal has to be to allow the train to stop. Here, though, the train is running at a maximum of 25mph, so less time is required. And the second activation is apparently for a train leaving a station, which will be going even slower.

[@officialmcdeath]

@beeble2003 all good points - I should've added that, in the Swiss case, quite often the barriers stay down for quite a while after passage of the train, even on a medium speed single track route \m/

[@beeble2003]

@@officialmcdeath In the UK, they generally rise pretty quickly after a train passes, unless there's another one coming. Here, the issue is that the barriers had begun to rise just before being triggered to lower again by the next train.

[@officialmcdeath]

@@beeble2003 all true. There's a regional dimension that needs to be added: as a Londoner, I'm used to cars lining up bumper to bumper, contrast this with what I see regularly in coastal resorts, where there are often multiple car lengths between each vehicle, a reflection of the slower pace of life there. As such, it wouldn't hurt for RHDR to delay barrier raising for a few seconds as a matter of course \m/

[@TonboIV]

At first I was confused and surprised when such a tiny train arrived on such wide tracks, and I wondered how a second train was going to come right after on a single line. It was only when the second train came that I realized I wasn't looking at one wide set of rails, it was two very *very* narrow pairs of rails!

[@cafsixtieslover]

What cute little trains!

[@karl7427]

This is 100% dangerous design. There is no reason why this can't be changed so that the barriers only lift after the red lights stop. As soon as the barriers start rising subconsciously you get ready to move. If there's a queue behind you theres also a psychological pressure to move.

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@karl7427 the design wasn't 100% dangerous, Yes there is the risk of the barriers lowering on top of a car however this crossing is fail safe protected, meaning the red lights still flashed and the train did not pass a fully deactivated crossing. However drivers do not wait for the wigwags to turn off before proceeding, they see the barrier going up and think it is safe to do so, when in cases like this it isn't.

[@InvictaView]

​@@RH_TransportPhotographyI can see your point but why are the barriers raising and lowering in quick succession? Far safer to keep the barriers down and let the second train go through. This happens everyday near me, at Aylesford Station crossing, the barriers come down as two trains are due withing a minute of each other. Any delay with the trains themselves just adds to the frustration for all the drivers, as the queues can be ridiculous at times. And there are eight of these crossings on the Medway Valley line. Nomwonder so many drivers get angry and lose patience. But that's todays H&S for you. 🤔

[@beeble2003]

@@InvictaView The barriers started to lift once the train was clear of the crossing. At that point, no train was detected approaching from the opposite direction. The lights are timed to go off as the barriers are rising. However, before the barriers got to that point, another train was detected. This meant the lights stayed on and the barriers started to lower again. But the design is unsafe: people will obviously interpret raising the barriers as meaning it's safe to go, but they're actually supposed to wait for the lights to stop flashing.

[@RushfanUK]

@@InvictaView I regularly cross the ECML with 125mph trains and at the crossing point the barriers always lift before the wigwags stop, on very rare occasions I have seen the barriers start to raise and then come back down, the saving grace on that particular crossing is that there is a long hold between activation and train coming to the crossing because of the train speed.

[@AudieHolland]

We have the same system in The Netherlands. There will always be some people who will try to cheat Death because "they're in a hurry."

[@goodmaro]

Those are some mighty compact locomotives!

[@Bournemouthbear]

Wow such a cute little train

[@jackpayne5101]

What lovely little chuffers! 😍

[@Nigel_Broatch]

Was the video shot at 30 FPS then edited at 25 FPS? The train looks very jerky as it moves across. It's good you posted this video, it reminds us to heed the sign on the right (Another train coming, etc...).

[@captainbimble]

Id say that the design of these crossings is dangerous. If another train was coming, why did the barriers raise? They should have stayed down.

[@tom201090]

It could be the position of the 2nd train. Dymchurch Station is nearby so it may depend on when the train leaves (or arrives) at Dymchurch.

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@tom201090 you are indeed correct, if the dispatcher of the 2nd train pressed the plunger for the crossing 2-4 seconds earlier the crossing would have not raised and it would have entered "Another Train Coming" mode. "Another Train Coming" mode or "ATC" mode is where the crossing stays down and the alarms at the crossing speed up as an audible warning for pedestrians.

[@Renard380]

This comment section shows that most people don't know the rules but still drive. Even rules as basic as "the lights are red, you stop". Scary.

[@InvictaView]

​@@RH_TransportPhotographyYou do admit though, those barriers should have stayed down? No amount of comments here on the legality of the lights/alarms going will sway drivers from gunning it as soon as the barrier raises. Its the way it is everywhere, especially if you're waiting for ages for trains to arrive/depart. This is especially so with todays mainline crossings. The barriers come down some three minutes before a train arrives! The traffic hold ups this causes has gotten ridiculous. But it doesn't matter, public transport safety is top priority. 👍💯🇬🇧🤔

[@InvictaView]

​@@Renard380I think they know the rules, but that can't be right, those barriers raising then lowering in quick succession. Something is not right here. 🤔

[@paulbessell6154]

Well - that was a surprise when the first train appeared! 😂

[@NorthWestLevelCrossingsChannel]

Great video 👍 I've seen this happen before in one of Nathan A RF's videos.

[@thephilpott2194]

Yeah. Watch the lights. gentlemen, as well as the barriers. Also, for comedic purposes:-.....'These ones are small, those ones are far away. SMALL.......FAR AWAY'

[@dtrain1634]

Sign on the right says it all…

[@AutoUnder]

In all fairness , that is why you should wait for the lights to go out first but I am surprised the barriers didn't stall and it didn't trigger double-stay

[@NWLevelCrossings]

Wow, that’s dangerous that is. Great Video!

[@ArtieArchives]

What country is this in?

[@InvictaView]

UK brother. 👍🇬🇧💯

[@alias9025]

There are good reasons for the crossing grade whistle signals in the US: two long, one shot, and a long held through the crossing.

[@048christine]

With auto half barriers the standard was minimum 10 seconds Road open time if you can’t achieve this barriers shoul no be allowed to raise, suggest either an issue in the logic or in the measurement of road open time. Please post an update Steve b

[@fetchstixRHD]

Finally, someone who's pointed out the 10 second road open time...

[@Icefumy]

Recommended video, It took me by surprise a little train was passing instead of a full-size one. Pretty funny!

[@hotelmario510]

The noise I made when I saw the size of the train was not human.

[@ericemmons3040]

Those little tiny locomotives have more substantial whistles than a lot of the standard gauge UK locomotives I've heard. . .

[@imbethondion4572]

Wow, those little things were rattling along! There's a 15" gauge railway near me but the trains don't run anywhere near that fast.

[@alidycepaisley3829]

"SURPRISE!" Yelled the loading gauge as the train went by.😂

[@shaunwest3612]

Amazing railway, great memories of visiting it👍👌

[@dopolous]

Is it me or is eight seconds rather tight if a pedestrian is crossing while using a mobility aid if there are full width barriers?

[@southcalder]

The dangerous thing here is people who got their drivers licences free with 6 packets of Corn Flakes. But the big issue here is that the second train has struck in immediately after the road opening sequence has commenced. Same thing can happen on the mainline, a design flaw which couldn’t really be overcome without adding secondary treadles much further out from the crossing (that would only be active if the crossing was already closed), hence the addition of the signs warning of second trains. AHB barriers won’t stop half way and come back down, they need to complete their sequence, but the light part of the sequence just continues and skips the yellow section as it has already been proved. Same thing happens on the mainline railway, but with much bigger gaps as the timing is set further out. Doesn’t usually happen with controlled barriers however, as they have often a Minimum Road Open timer which usually allows a few cars through before the sequence restarts.

[@squeaksvids5886]

That needs to be reported, possible irregularity with the operation of the barriers.

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@squeaksvids5886 the crossing entered fail safe mode, nothing mechanical went wrong.

[@wyvernmodelrailway]

To be fair, the barriers should not have been raised between the two trains.

[@tahrey]

I think it's just a coincidental artefact of how the sensors are placed on the tracks and at what time the trains happened to hit them. Replaying the start of the video, there's a good five seconds between the red lights coming on and the barriers starting to come down (the yellows are on for maybe 3-4 seconds, but irrelevant here as we don't see them later), a deliberate delay to allow traffic to either stop short of the crossing or clear across it without getting hit by them. If it's an electromechanical or simplistic electronic circuit then that's probably a completely fixed period with no variation possible for edge cases like this. The barriers take less than five seconds to go up, and the lights stay on until they're maybe 2/3rd or 3/4 the way up after the second train. It's less than five seconds from them reaching that point the first time, to starting to come down again. Between that and how long it takes for each train to arrive at the crossing at what looks like full line speed, it seems reasonable to assume that the second train hit its own track block sensors _just_ as the barriers were about halfway up (or maybe just as they were about to rise, if we account for the unseen yellow phase, that would be overridden by a second timer governing the "lift barriers" sequence). If it had been a second or two later you'd have seen the lights go off as well for a moment then restart the entire sequence - or at least flick to yellow again just for a second - as well as the barriers moving, and if four or five seconds it would have been very obvious. If it had been a second or two earlier the barriers wouldn't have lifted all the way and the cars may have clonked them if their drivers didn't respond fast enough. If THAT had been four or five seconds, they wouldn't have moved at all. Either way, doesn't really matter. The system is working as intended, and any slight glitchiness from that simple but extremely robust timing system design is more than accounted for by how the barriers were fully down for more than thirty seconds before each train's arrival. If it was actually a "last moment activation" then we'd have heard the signed last-moment whistles being blown before the barriers were down...

[@richmayes8451]

The first train is triggered by a sensor on the train. The second train is departing a station, so they rely on someone pressing a plunger on the platform to trigger the barrier. This is probably greater than 1 in a billion occurrence, so it could be years before it ever happened again.

[@stephendudman1422]

On the main line this would be a serious fault.

[@tahrey]

@@stephendudman1422 Good job it isn't, then. How would it have gone there if a second train triggered the crossing whilst it was already in the process of raising after the first one?

[@fetchstixRHD]

@@tahrey: tl;dr "it wouldn't*" They should be set up such that there's at least 10 seconds minimum between the crossing reopening, and the crossing activating again and showing amber to road traffic for another train. If this couldn't be achieved, then the crossing would remain closed, with any barriers present remaining down. * there is the exception where, for example, a train passes a signal at stop, where the crossing will activate straight to red flashing lights immediately and half barrier crossings will start to lower. (this is ORR guidance quoted, though of course, "not legal advice" and the likes...)

[@JPLCUK]

Nice one I didn't know crossings would do that

[@develyntwocentshenderson5739]

If I had a little doggie I would stand a bit further away... .. and apparently now a second train warning... heck, that is a cute little train...

[@MegaZsolti]

This will just happen at automatic crossing signals; different signal systems from different countries deal with it differently. There are some French, (East) German and Czech examples.

[@zostrelling_]

model railway across a public road with a full crossing is wild

[@GFSTaylor]

This is the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch railway, in Kent, England. It's built to 1/3 scale but it's a functional railway that takes passengers between several towns. You can goggle it for more info. It's fascinating.

[@DGQ1Q2]

Thanks for the video, I learn to not trust the barriers after watched this, I never saw that issue. looks like a bad design. as the comments below. "Check the lights before proceed". now sorry for the drivers behind me, "I will wait for the lights" pretty sure, I will have beeps, horns. gestures. and who knows what else. But I will wait.

[@davidhartwell4826]

Ignore the impatient morons.

[@PeterLGଈ]

There is zero danger in this setup. The lights flash, 20 seconds later the barriers drop, 20 seconds later a train passes, the barriers raise to let a car through, then drop again, then 20 seconds later a second train passes. A driver would have to stop on the crossing (a vague possibility with that bloody car parked so close) in direct violation of the signage posted in order to get clobbered. Even then, these trains are low-momentum enough to stop short if a car driver was that stupid.

[@simonfunwithtrains1572]

I think this would constitute driving through a red light.

[@billbadger8654]

Does that AHBC not have ATC treadles??

[@Bobtidbury]

As the lights were still flashing WHY did the barrier lift and then go down again ,it would have been a lot safer if it stayed down all the time .

[@pedward1313]

The problem is a simple one to resolve - don’t raise the barriers if another train is coming! The barriers should automatically stay down until the lights have stopped flashing. Otherwise the system is seriously flawed.

[@ADJLfanatic52]

Most drivers in the U.S. also ignore the lights completely and go when the barriers go up.

[@das5813]

The most dangerous thing is the raising of the barriers whilst the warning lights are still on red. This false act would've made the signalman culpable if there was an accident.

[@ROGER2095]

The two drivers shouldn't have gone through while the lights were still flashing BUT the remedy is to adjust the program so that the arms stay down until the lights stop.

[@rogerphelps9939]

The barriers should never have been raised between trains. Poor design.

[@RushfanUK]

Drivers shouldn't cross when the red lights are flashing.

[@tonytheantony]

..did you not see the red lights, nor hear the warning sound? Also the wavy big sticks might also tell something's on it's way. Wavy sticks shouldn't of gone up...but there were warnings. It's not a poor design, it's about human factors, and that's impatience 🙂

[@rogerphelps9939]

@@tonytheantony Wrong. It sends mixed messages and that is poor design.

[@tonytheantony]

​@@rogerphelps9939what are the mixed messages? How can you engineer to guard against idiot behaviour? Let's say someone destroyed those barriers? Okay, end of. We are both wrong.🙂

[@rogerphelps9939]

@@tonytheantony Don't be ridiculous.

[@SteamTech_4468]

The Control system for the barriers probably should of interupted the barriers raising, however the lights where still on so the drivers are 100% in the wrong. I just don't get why people treat Wig-Wags as different from regular traffic lights.

[@BlameAmes]

"why have i heard of dymchurch, it rings a bell but i can't place it"

[@seanwilson471]

Light were still red. You must not procceed through a red light. Traffic law. You must wait until the lights stop flashing. If lights are flashing it means another train is coming. These type of crossing are activated by a pedlar system as the train passes over it.

[@folksinger2100]

One for the Signals dept there I think

[@aussieslotcar]

Someone didn't read the wash label on that Loco

[@davidwookey3792]

Question is, why did the barrier raise!!

[@MichaelMcFerrin]

That was close !

[@2760ade]

Good job none of the vehicles was an HGV or something similarly long!! Should be double yellows the other side of the crossing also. Allowing parked cars that close to the crossing is asking for trouble?

[@BRLCATUK]

That’s mega rare!

[@morganlefey]

This is one great surreal movie! ❤

[@malcolmabram2957]

Those cars are parked far to close to the crossing. In heavy traffic the way round could be blocked a following car going in the direction of the parked cars could end up being blocked on the crossing.

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

that is why you do NOT stop on the crossing and you should wait behind the white road marking before it is safe to cross.

[@malcolmabram2957]

@@RH_TransportPhotography Have you ever followed a vehicle through at a junction or a roundabout to suddenly find unexpectedly it stops for no apparent reason, leaving you stranded mid road?

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@malcolmabram2957 that is a roundabout, not a level crossing, where trains take much longer to stop.

[@topher1976au]

That is exactly why you do not go through when the lights are still flashing.

[@The_Untitled]

Pretty funny that miniature railways still get priority over road traffic

[@tahrey]

I count 40 seconds between the barriers starting to come back down, and the second train arriving. That's basically the same lead time as there was for the first train, and more than the 30 seconds minimum that you're supposed to get with mainline standard gauge trains. How is that "last second" or "dangerous"? Seems likely that the first train was clear of the sensors on the near track for a good few seconds before the second one hit the sensors for the far track. So the crossing is working exactly as expected, and whilst the drivers should have waited a couple seconds longer for the lights to clear (after all AFAIK _flashing_ reds are something you can't legally cross even on a blue light emergency call), they weren't in any actual danger either. We can probably give them benefit of the doubt of being much better able to see up and down the line than we can from this camera angle, and so seeing that there wasn't anything nearby on the second line. After all, the kid on the pavement seemed to find something worth filming almost right from the start of the video. The speed that the trains are approaching you could probably dodge them within sight distance, too, and their own braking distance may not be all that long. Similarly we hope the drivers may be able to see that the gates are down and/or have a line-facing signal of some kind to confirm that so they know the crossing is properly guarded? (Nevermind being able to see whether a 2020s crossover barge that's taller than the train is sitting in the way) What was maybe a little late was the proper whistle from the second train, less than 5 seconds from the crossing when the first one gave a good 10. But maybe it took a moment for the driver to realise their initial, earlier toot was a bit too short and quiet, and it's only a belt and braces final warning anyway. Slightly curious that the lights stayed on the first time until the barriers were fully raised and a moment longer, well before they started to come back down, but the second time they clicked off before the barriers were all the way up? Maybe the local drivers are more used to the second behaviour (so, if the barriers are up, you're clear to go, maybe pending a look up and down the line) and by the time they may have registered the difference they were already moving, and if you've started to foul the tracks the best idea is to just continue over as quickly as possible as a regular size car (or bicycle, pedestrian) will get out of the way quicker like that vs stopping to reverse or turn around. (edit: OK so having looked on Google Maps for another comment ... the sightlines for the first train are exceptional, it's an easy eighth of a mile if not more even from the near stopline, you can probably see it around the same time the lights come on if not before. It's not so great in the other direction, at least assuming all the hedges are as high as what we can see here. But, it's like 150 metres to Dymchurch station, which presumably all trains stop at because it's the second of only three stations on the entire line, the other two being terminii. If the first train isn't already braking for it by the time its tail has hit the crossing, then it must be able to stop pretty smartly, running speed to a smooth passenger-friendly halt in 150m. The second train will have been still accelerating unless it can similarly get up to running speed in that distance - and, whilst the stoplines are hidden until quite late, the driver would be able to see if the crossing itself is clear or blocked from about half that distance, so able to throw the brakes on from probably less than full speed. I wonder even if the start of the sensor block is placed right after the end of the platform, so the lights are on right from when the train has started to move, and the barriers dropping very soon after, or if it's even manually triggered along with the starting signal so the train is prohibited from moving until the crossing has been put in motion? It wouldn't make any sense to have it further back, but that then might cause a truncated period of fully closed barriers before a non-stopping train reaches the crossing... Unless it could be locked out and ignores the presence of a train if the station signal is red, which would essentially have the same effect as having it linked to a starting signal?)

[@beeble2003]

The dangerous part is that the barriers began to rise and then suddenly lowered again. The whole design of the crossing is unsafe, because opening the barriers is naturally interpreted as meaning that it's safe to cross but it's not actually safe to cross until the lights stop flashing.

[@Sowerbylads]

The car drivers need to revisit the highway code. While the red lights are flashing the cars should wait behind the solid stop line irrespective of where the barriers are, up or down is irrelevant.

[@LetsTalkLogicOfficial]

Have you reported this to them and police?

[@NuVibes.]

"Time flies by when you're a driver of a train Speeding out of Trumpton with a cargo of cocaine..."

[@TheCatOfWarCSGO]

i don't see how its dangerous at all, there was plenty of time between the barrier and the train in both activations and the barrier isnt going to hurt anyone even if they're misled by the initial raise

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@TheCatOfWarCSGO for starters there is no physical indication for it going back down, 2 it is misleading for drivers as they think it is safe to proceed when the barriers are coming back down occasionally nearly hitting them as seen in the video.

[@TheCatOfWarCSGO]

@@RH_TransportPhotography there is an indication it's going back down, it's called the flashing red lights and sirens. the signs literally state that red lights=train coming, and the red lights were showing. there is nothing ambiguous about this. and also, the barriers won't hurt anyone even if a car drove into them as they fell. there's nothing dangerous here, stop being overdramatic 🙄

[@RH_TransportPhotography]

@@TheCatOfWarCSGO but are most car drivers in 2024 that smart? no. As an extra by looking at your channel it doesn't seem like you have alot of knowledge about level crossings therefore i wouldn't be trying tell someone how a level crossing on a heritage railway works.

[@TheCatOfWarCSGO]

@@RH_TransportPhotography you don't know shit about my knowledge so get off your patronising high horse. what does the content of my yt that I haven't posted to in 6 years matter to this lmao

[@Je22345]

THE lights are still RED they stay RED so its the idiotic drivers who pay no attention to the RED lights

[@stephenmawby]

The drivers should have waited till the lights had stopped flashing before proceeding to drive across.