Dangerously Close Call Between JetBlue and Caribbean Airlines Converging During Approach for Landing

A JetBlue and Caribbean Airlines flight, both inbound for runway 10 at Port of Spain-Piarco International Airport, get dangerously close on the final while setting up for their approaches. JetBlue was doing an ILS approach, while Caribbean Airlines was doing an RNAV approach and the two planes were converging at the same altitude.
*This video utilizes simulations to provide a better viewing experience*
Audio Source: www.LiveATC.Net

[@ATCPOV]

CORRECTION: Use discount code "Downwind" for 10% off at the store.

[@MrBruce-ep3zq]

One correction : that airport has a modern radar system. It was down for repair at the time. I do agree with your analysis, Clearly, that scenario could have been better treated.

[@lily2016]

If the radar is down then don't have flights coming in around same time. That government has enough money to have proper equipment.

[@gerardsudan292]

TRINIDAD does have radar. It was not working at the time. This was an embarrassing situation for the country.

[@trinidadandtobago7098]

🇹🇹🇹🇹👌🏿👍🏿

[@Redridge07]

@gerand sudan Your comment makes zero sense ... US airports will have radars down and it is not an embarrasing situation for our country. What are you talking about?

[@alexwyler4570]

if the radar is not working - usually it is for months at a time before it gets fixed- it does not have radar.

[@AzovAzza]

ATC kind of seemed all over the place and not very confident, compared to others I’ve heard. Another great video, my friend! I appreciate the time, effort and energy that you put in. I really like the graphics for todays video. Strong work, brother! ✈️👊🏻

[@ATCPOV]

Thanks! 👊

[@dermick]

Very interesting video - I hope the local ATC team sees it and makes some adjustments to their procedures to avoid it in the future. Looks like some opportunities for improvement. Great work again, Lex!

[@ATCPOV]

Thank you!

[@burtmcreavy7695]

This analysis of this situation is right on. Well done.

[@papabear6860]

Another great video Lex, hard to believe a bust airport like this does not have radar in this day and age. Superb overlay of the chart approaches over the map - that made it really easy to understand what went on, thanks.

[@ATCPOV]

Thank you!

[@smythrich]

good video, Piarco has radar, reported in the press that is down waiting for parts. Scarey.

[@trinidadandtobago7098]

We do have an radar system it were down at the point in time for upgrade

[@lily2016]

Trinidad government need to step up. Someone commented that the radar was not working for 6 weeks. Safety of passengers and crew should be a PRIORITY. They should limit the flights coming in especially around the same time until they get a new radar.

[@markbryan9989]

Good analysis. Spot on. Imagine if this was in IMC conditions!

[@ATCPOV]

Thank you!

[@Redridge07]

TCAS spotted the issue ..

[@MeaHeaR]

Wow your Graphic visualisations make this channel so much better, keep up the great work unt thanking you 👍👍✔💯

[@hack1n8r]

Please let the reader understand that my comment(s) are based on the actual *Real Time* ATC comms and ADS-B data. Keep in mind that to keep these videos fluid, Lex (and many others) trim out some of the silences, making it difficult to determine the timing and cadence of the ATC exchanges. BWA521 was 100% at fault because she *did not* climb as instructed. She had just descended thru 5000' when Approach told her to climb, and was at 4400' when she (finally) acknowledged the instruction to climb. JBU1517 was already at 4100 on long final. However, BWA521 continued to descend to 4000' when she should have been climbing instead. At the very least, she should have immediately stopped the descent by pressing ALT HOLD; the plane would not have descended below 4300' if pressed at 4400'. The TCAS on both planes saw each other, and most likely generated a traffic advisory (TA) in both. BWA521 responded to Approach with "traffic", to which Approach told her to climb (JBU had the right-of-way, and priority, because he was lower than BWA, and he was already on the straivht-in final). To be clear, BWA521 was 100% aware that JBU1517 was off to her right AND at a lower altitude. She alerted Approach to her TCAS TA by saying "Traffic?". However, neither aircraft received an RA at that time, so there was NO REASON for her to continue descending *after* she was explicitly told to climb. Because she ignored ATC and continued to descend, it triggered a resolution advisory (RA) in JBU1517, telling him to climb (because she was still descending). JetBlue had just started his final descent and was at 4000' when he got his RA, wheras BWA was approaching 4000' in an established descent. I'm almost positive that at the same time BWA521's TCAS also issued an RA telling her to either descend or maintain her current altitude. To be fair to BWA521, she might have been abundantly cautious because they were flying into a non-radar field. She might have fixated on the TCAS target representing JBU1517 on her Nav Display. Although JBU was showing as off to the right and beneath her, the altitude margin might have been small enough to give her concern. Either way, she should have followed ATC's instruction to climb, especially in the absence of an RA. Despite the blind circumstances, ATC did a stellar job deconflicting the two.

[@rafitod8210]

All this being said I wouldn't fault the bwa521 pilot. I wouldn't fault either of the pilots. I believe the Caribbean pilot was confused by atc instructions to climb which followed an initial approach clearance. She was simply inquiring about the reason she was asked to climb. On the other hand, it would have been of greater prudence on the part of atc to have issued essential traffic information in the same transmission as the instruction given to Caribbean to climb. It is unclear whether or not JBU was acting on a tcas RA but atc again had to be more expeditious in reacquiring JBU on approach frequency and issuing essential traffic information with subsequent instructions. Also, it was quite negligent of atc to have descended Caribbean to 4100ft without acquiring an altitude report from the preceeding traffic. Likewise, in procedural atc, a position report and a report that the preceeding aircraft had checked over a specific fix on the approach is essential prior to clearing a succeeding aircraft for a full instrument approach. Caribbean should've been asked to hold overhead napko until jetblue had arrived at a point safe enough on his approach to allow a succeeding aircraft to begin their approach for the same runway.

[@hack1n8r]

@@rafitod8210 I've "waffled" back and forth on this myself. In the end, in non-radar ATC airspace it's very important to not delay executing ATC's instructions. Having said that, I really do believe that she was being abundantly cautious, and I can't / don't blame her for that. However, had she started climbing when she acknowledged ATC, there wouldn't have been a conflict. Here's where I waffle -- I'd rather her be acutely diligent than to assume that everything will be ok on this converging non-radar approach. And, once she recognized that JBU was climbing, she did the right thing by maintaining 4,000'.

[@glennwatson]

Feels like they should of just had one of the aircraft conduct a hold for sequencing. Based on the reports they knew there was a conflict happening.

[@keatz2726]

No sir I live in Trinidad and we do have a radar and we also have ILS. The radar has been down for about 6 weeks awaiting a part from another country

[@lily2016]

TRINIDAD government need to step up. And fix these problems faster. If radar is down and flights coming in around same time more precaution is needed

[@ronaldgiroux3307]

Piatco isn’t a very busy airport so to see ATC confused with just two aircraft approaching all I can say is thank goodness it isn’t a busy airport!

[@tyrekegordon2492]

Thank you for another great video hope you have a fantastic day

[@ATCPOV]

Thank you, you too!

[@MrJones-uq5cg]

Thanks for the explanation with visuals.

[@smythrich]

they have radar but its not working ,,,,,,,,,

[@gpslightlock1422]

Little bump in your number of subscribers. Congratulations! So now you're monetized? IIRC that requires 10k subscribers. Love the channel. Great getting that ATC perspective. Eager to see the channel grow.

[@ATCPOV]

Thanks buddy and yes. You've been supporting since the beginning and it means a lot. I really appreciate it.

[@gpslightlock1422]

@@ATCPOV IIRC I am subscriber #46 on this channel.

[@carrolinenewtonisaac3234]

This is scary 😮

[@artisanbusiness1314]

Good Channel, deserve a sub

[@philhill184]

That was scary!

[@skylark707]

Great analysis and presentation.

[@IanHorsford]

I agreed with ur analysis but many developing nations do not have radar or the system maybe out of service. I listen to the frequency on LiveATC and these controllers do a very good in managing air traffic coming in from Europe, North America and South America without incident. Controllers all over the world make mistakes everyday which including the United States. Whether it’s a radar or none radar environment, mishaps do happen. They simply learn from it and continue to grow. Crisis averted, thank God. Controllers all around the world have accents, it doesn’t make them less professional or knowledgeable of their responsibility.

[@aviationled_mmix]

You may not have been aware of the fact that TTPP does have Radar but the Radar was not functioning at the time of the incident. The Jetblue aircraft was on the the ILS / VOR approach for Runway 10 and in the number one position and would normally have been descending below the flight path of the Caribbean Airlines aircraft on the GPS/GNSS approach to Runway 10 and number 2 for arrival, as that approach restricts that aircraft’s altitude to 4100 ft until it intercepts the Approach Fix after which it us permitted to descend having executed a descending turn to join its final inbound course into Runway 10. The Jetblue aircraft executed a TCAS alert instruction because its TCAS system detected the Caribbean Airlines aircraft on an interception course from the north and at less than 3 miles closing distance ahead while the Jetblue aircraft was proceeding due east. Because the ATC controller was relying in verbal communication to have situational awareness, the tolerance as to each aircraft’s precise position in space was greater than usual, so the Jetblue aircraft could have been a bit further back in its actual approach or the Caribbean Airlines aircraft a bit further ahead in its location - which would result in the TCAS alert. However, note from the two approach plates, the Jetblue aircraft would normally have begun its descent below 4100 ft before the point where the CAL aircraft would have begun its descent - having reached the Approach Fix on its approach at which it is allowed to descend - and executed a 270 degree turn in order to join the Final Approach course inbound to Runway 10. The issue here is likely that a possibility exist whereby minimum vertical separation would be lost should both aircraft arrive at the same horizontal position at the same time though the aircraft on the ILS / VOR approach would be some 200 feet or more, lower than the aircraft on the GPS /GNSS approach to Runway 10. There was never a serious danger of a collision (as TCAS intervened) though minimum horizontal and minimum vertical separation could be lost in a situation where ATC has no functioning Radar and thus looses situational awareness. It is likely that the procedure for arrivals will have been changed in order to increase separation when such situations (temporary loss of ATC Radar) occurs. NOTE : The above is only my personal opinion. I do NOT represent either the local ATC / CAA authority nor either of the two airlines. The above is only from the perspective of a pilot with some knowledge of IFR procedures who looked into the incident shortly after it occurred.

[@aviationled_mmix]

Apologies for the typographical spelling errors contained in the above comment 👍

[@aviationled_mmix]

CORRECTION : Aircraft on the GPS / GNSS approach to Runway 10 via NAPKO, do NOT execute a 270 degree descending turn after reaching the Approach Fix at which point they are permitted to descend below 2500 feet (at way point LEXOR which is 10 DME from the POS VOR). They in fact instead turn 90 degrees to achieve their east bound course and begin their descent at LEXOR, to descend below 2500 feet, at around 10 DME from the POS VOR. The aircraft on the ILS / VOR approach, via SHARK, prepare to begin their descent at a point just closer tha 15 DME from the POS VOR but descend only when they intersect the ILS. By the time they arrive at 10 DME from the POS VOR, they should be below 2500 feet MSL. Thus as the Caribbean Airlines aircraft was instructed to remain at 4100 feet until it arrived at way point LEXOR, it was the TCAS detection of encroachment within the minimum horizontal spacing that lead to the invent becoming an incident.

[@veterantrucker9063]

I am a big fan of 1 approach per runway. Take a number and line them up.

[@toniblackmore3016]

Neither pilot seemed particularly rattled, as though TCAS incidents happen all the time. The Caribbean pilot sounded a little scornful if anything. Strange dynamic.

[@paulfoster2025]

Cal pilot starts the climb very clearly so

[@neojted]

The fact that the airport does normally have radar means that the controllers were probably not used to working without it.

[@planelover737-8]

The caribbean airlines is old livery on max

[@victorialaing-webber6481]

Great video 👍🏽 👏🏽 good job

[@jjsifo1]

Good one !

[@lulubell2222]

As a pilot it is well known that many airports around the world are virtually sweaty Palm approaches and certainly Trinidad and Tobago are on that list unfortunately.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

did you ever work a non-radar field in your career... my general feeling is, it's sort of like a pilot hand-flying his airplane - it can be done, but the workload goes up 10 fold... is that an accurate assessment???

[@ATCPOV]

Fortunately, I've never had to work non-radar. But I've consulted with former coworkers who have for this video and your comparison is spot on. There's a lot we take for granted because of radar.

[@angelefigueira2138]

Sad but true. An accide nt waiting to happen. They better get on with the program.

[@Rodhern]

Looks like the Jetblue approach is over water. Could ATC have descended them to 3000 ft? Or does that create other problems instead?

[@ATCPOV]

In an ideal situation yes, but I'm not too familiar with the airspace so I can't say definitively. Also, JBU was responding to a TCAS RA, and in the United States controllers are not allowed to give instructions while a pilot is executing the instructions of the TCAS.

[@bcole2353]

Ifr ops start at 4100 ft, highest obstacle is approximately 3100ft

[@Rodhern]

@@ATCPOV Yeah. My *guess* is that the TCAS would have realized there is no immediate danger if at 3000' and the other plane is at 4100'. Guess we cannot know though.

[@Rodhern]

@@bcole2353 Oh, thanks. That explain the predicament.

[@danielchurchill9004]

Lex thanks!

[@ATCPOV]

Thank you!

[@stringandreed]

Atc's all over the place. My question their competency when their radar is not working.

[@Boodieman72]

Lack of coordination between controllers.

[@johnneedham6537]

Are you aware that there is a crocodeer sitting on your sofa?

[@ATCPOV]

Lol, it's actually a dragon 🐉

[@gregorylenton8200]

Say Thats Kinda Scary Stuff

[@Jay-hr3rh]

Piarco does have a radar system. ATC plain out did a very poor job!

[@keepitgrimy]

✈️

[@ATCPOV]

👊

[@aproudamerican2692]

It seems to always take a major crash for change to happen. Non radar controlled airports are ticking time bombs.

[@craigroberson8757]

Jet Blue appeared to be responding to TCAS. Caribbean Air did not seem to recognize the other aircraft

[@christerry1773]

They don’t have radar? Why is there a radar approach then, I’m confused. Either way, this would have been a nail flight crew. Although I don’t think they got close enough for Tcas to be triggered

[@trinidadandtobago7098]

We do have an radar system.

[@rmshivo]

An International Airport without radar....?🤔

[@ATCPOV]

Yup! Smh

[@justsaying4303]

it has radar it was down due to repairs

[@revelmediatt]

@@ATCPOV They do have a Radar, it was unservicable at the time. Please do your research before making statements like this. The ATC however was very poor at managing the situation.

[@Cb86891]

FROM BAD TO WORSE.. WAY TOO BAD

[@raycatlin3554]

HOWDY LEX , 🤠 Siempre - Fidelis , H-O-W would a situation like this be handled ? . .How'd You come across this information . . B-T-W ? ? Who contacts the FAA when these events happen ? ? Mention this info. from time to time , It's good to Know ! Stay Healthy , Good Luck ! Let's Go Brandon ! ~ 👍 . . .💨

[@aeroshutterspeed]

Average Piarco Itl day

[@cameliabrown2955]

Sad, Sad..let's see what the government is going to do moving forward .

[@chickenroti5605]

Meh Brethren....Piarco has radar....It just so happens to be down that day..ease we up na. These thi gs do happen

[@lutchmansakawat4314]

the problem is p n m god bless

[@hillarynewman8220]

Totally bad air traffic control! Wow! Smh

[@virginiaviola5097]

JB was arrogant and wrong. Took it upon themselves unilaterally to climb. The fact that they created a second conflict by doing so, when ATC had seen that and given instructions to Caribbean to climb to avoid conflict and had JB who had no instruction to climb had continued their descent all would have been well. That should be a pilot deviation right there. But they are Americans, so they are Gods, rules just don’t apply to them.

[@trinidadandtobago7098]

ATC POINT OF VIEW YOU NEEDS TO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MADE THIS KIND OF CONTENTS YOU ARE SENDING MISS INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC OUR AIR PORT ARE ONE OF THE MOST MORDEN AIR PORT IN THE CARIBBEAN AT THAT POINT IN TIME THE SYSTEM WERE DOWN FOR UPGRADE SO BEFORE YOU MADE THIS CONTENT YOU SHOULD OF DO YOUR RESEARCH IN A KINDLE MANNER BEFORE MISS INFORMATION TO YOUR CONTENT ABOUT OUR AIR TERMINAL 🇹🇹🇹🇹

[@Lingboysc2]

The radar was down for 6 weeks. That’s unacceptable.

[@trinidadandtobago7098]

@@Lingboysc2 and again you are also commenting miss information at that point in time our system were down for about just an hour.

[@Lingboysc2]

@@trinidadandtobago7098 source?

[@paulymac5513]

They should at least learn better English when you have hundreds of lives at stake like that.

[@ATCPOV]

Well the official language of their country is English, their accent is just different from ours.

[@IanHorsford]

An accent doesn’t make them inferior at their job. Listen LiveATC and you’ll hear the countless accent that passes through that sector on a daily basis and you’ll understand who needs English lessons….smh

[@CaptainGoldberg]

Maybe wait until after your shift to smoke the ganja.