Daniel Predicted the Timing of the Messiah

[@TestifyApologetics]

The prophecies of Daniel and the book itself are very controversial. I get that. I'd recommend this blog post by Jonathan McLatchie on the authenticity of Daniel and for a defense of the common Christian position on Daniel. jonathanmclatchie.com/the-authenticity-of-the-book-of-daniel-a-survey-of-the-evidence/

[@mikeyant2445]

What are your sources for Tacitus, Seutonius, Josephus quoting Daniel?

[@truncated7644]

@@ziphos You know Mike Licona disagrees with you and he DOESN'T have the presupposition you believe critical scholars have. That's because critical scholars don't need to have this presupposition, they have many other reasons and Licona and other Christian scholars understand this. I won't say you are strawmanning critics, but I don't think you know their arguments fully.

[@Hannodb1961]

You know, I've been binge watching a series on Jewish history from a Jewish perspective, and there was one event that really stood out for me. Some years after the destruction of Jerusalem, the Romans erected a sanctuary for Jupiter on what used to be the holy of holies. At the same time, they imported Roman farmers to work the land. But, they used incorrect farming techniques, causing all of Palestine to besically turn into a desert. Something that would not be reversed until the state of Israel was formed. When I heard that, I immediately thought of "the abomination (altar to Jupiter) of desolation (the desertification of Israel)"

[@ExNihiloNihilFit319]

The link isn't working.

[@Greyz174]

@@ziphos mclatchie's article says that your polemic of "they just dont want to accept prophecy" is super cringe. Make sure you dont skip the part at the bottom about daniel 11:40 thats one of the big red flags about a late date, and Jonathan admits he cant do much to dismiss it

[@quicksilver7532]

Jesus is lord ✝️🙏

[@friendlyfire7509]

Maranatha. Come quickly.

[@protorhinocerator142]

Lord of Lords and King of Kings. The alpha and the omega. There is none like our Savior.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

This seems to be why so many modern Jews stopped believing in God's promised Messiah. If they are taught Jesus was not Christ then there is no other possible candidate.

[@christianjohannsen01]

Yes, sadly so. In their quest to justify the non-divinity of the Jewish messiah, they have became very non-biblical, even so far as disavowing their own long religious history and tradition. This happens and became strong since the period of Maimonides.

[@farmercraig6080]

Daniel is such a fascinating book. One interesting piece I've read is that the total number of days works out to be the date of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem. The terminal event of the 69 weeks is the presentation of Christ Himself to Israel as the Messiah as predicted in Zechariah 9:9 “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, you king is coming to you; he is just and having salvation, lowly and riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey”. On the following Friday, April 3, A.D. 33, Christ was crucified or “cut off”. This is based on using the decree found in Nehemiah 2:1-8 that refers to the city of Jerusalem. (The argument is that it is the only decree that mentions the city of Jerusalem, the others refer to the temple) This event occurred in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes. He began his reign in 465 BC. The twentieth year of his reign was 444 BC. When we add the two totals 49+434, in Daniel 9:25 these equals 483. (The 7 sevens, and the 62 sevens). 483 years, each year equaling the 360-day year* (173,880 days). The only years whose length is given in the bible are of 360 days, twelve months of 30 days. Starting from 444 BC, adding the 173,880 days, that's 33 A.D The difference between 444 B.C and A.D 33 then is 476 solar years. By multiplying the 476 by the 365.24219879, or by 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, 45.975 seconds one comes to 173,855 days. This leaves only the 25 days to be accounted for between 444 B.C and A.D. 33. By adding the 25 days to March 5 (of 444 B.C), one comes to March 30 (of A.D. 33) which was Nissan 10 in A.D. 33.

[@lark8356]

Grace and Peace to you. This matches what Bible Study Tools says. It's the most impressive prophecy in scripture in my opinion

[@farmercraig6080]

@@lark8356 yes it is. Great stuff

[@j.gstudios4576]

@@farmercraig6080 this is amazing but I'm having trouble as to seeing where we get 490 years when 70 weeks is barley a year

[@farmercraig6080]

@@j.gstudios4576 well the weeks are changed to years to get the totals.

[@histguy101]

@@j.gstudios4576 The word used just means "Sevens," so like "70 sevens are decreed"

[@sjappiyah4071]

Love your videos of Jesus & OT prophecies such as Psalm 22, Firstfruits, conversion of the gentiles, and now Daniel. Too many Christians are lazy and just spam Isaiah 53 in a comment section and pat themselves on the back lol. Whilst that’s certainly an important passage I appreciate that you provide a more comprehensive and wholistic set a of arguments. Great work.

[@johnpratts2856]

I felt that. Somewhere... Maybe in a place where I need to see a doctor. But I felt it. We as believers must be more educated on the Word.

[@Christislord421]

The saddest part is that modern evangelicals have taken this awesome prophecy about Christ And made it about the antichrist

[@TestifyApologetics]

True.

[@sciencescholar3440]

May be because, the Antichrist is an imposter, so he will try his best to copy the true Messiah. Revelation 13:3, : " I saw that one of the heads of the beast seemed wounded beyond recovery--but the fatal wound was healed! The whole world marveled at this miracle and gave allegiance to the beast."

[@kylec8950]

It's even sadder because they made up a super villain called "The Antichrist", when the Bible never speaks of it as singular Boogeyman

[@moviestoshare813]

@@kylec8950 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5

[@kylec8950]

@@moviestoshare813 2 The 2:7, this "antichrist" was already alive and at work in the 1st century. Not in our future.

[@thetheoreticaltheologian2458]

This is amazing stuff! I’d also like to add that Jesus told us when the Jewish Temple would be destroyed “because they denied Him” when He speaks about His resurrection and relates it to the sign of Jonah who was in the belly of the whale for 3 days so also the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth and resurrected 3 days. We also see that Jonah preached 40 days till Nineveh be judged/destroyed. Like this video, most of the time when prophecy is given in the amount of days, it’s usually equal to the amount of years “40 days = 40 years” you can find this in a couple different scriptures “you’ll just have to type in the day to year prophecy verses”. So we have Jesus’s ministry starting around A.D. 30 and the Temples destruction is in A.D. 70 which would make it 40 years after Jesus proclaims this is when it actually happened! Jesus is Lord and Savior of the world!

[@chubbyclub2502]

Well it could be that but also keep in mind Jesus was on the earth 40 days after His resurrection. So it probly doesn't mean years.

[@ItsJustAdrean]

The prophecy is true. Christianity DID conquer Rome in a mere 300 years. Without bloodshed!

[@hydrofake9574]

Video: Great Thumbnail: Iconic Hotel: Trivago

[@stutteringdisciple1919]

I’d love to see more videos on prophecy of the resurrection. I really liked the last video about first fruits of the resurrection

[@sylviesherman4797]

Accurate and super interesting. Excellent as always. No "helping hand" to do the drawings. I like it either way. The hard work and organizing the research is much appreciated. Enjoy your channel.

[@Golfinthefamily]

I always appreciate your putting together of the data to explain it. Keep up the good work, brother! Daniel prophecy is pretty awesome.

[@jaredjones7818]

Always love your videos, Erik. Keep it up.

[@oskahh9141]

Absolutely incredible to me that you don't have more subscribers and views. How much time and research do you put into your vids? Do you have a background in history or theology or something like that?

[@jamiehudson3661]

Awesome job explaining all of that in 10 minutes!

[@servantofjesuschrist8606]

Erik, are Richard Carrier's arguments for Jesus mythicism good? I've heard Bob Price's arguments and they were very weak.

[@TestifyApologetics]

I think Richard Carrier is a smart guy who says a lot of incredibly incorrect things.

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

Great video, and on a subject that nowhere near enough people talk about considering its gravity, but I have a small nitpick. I think you said something like "where did Jesus get this idea from?" referring to the plan for him to be sacrificed. I've seen Brant Pitre write something similar. That might be how a textual critic would describe it, trying to avoid veering into statements of faith, but clearly the precisely dated fulfillment of this prophesy supports the claim that Jesus is God (among many other strong indications of his divinity). Given that he is God, he doesn't get ideas from the Bible, but vice versa. The Bible records Daniel's vision, which was given to him by God, who is Jesus. And Jesus later references and fulfills the prophesy that he himself planned. I'm sure it's not your intention (nor Pitre's) to imply otherwise, but I think the average non-Christian would hear "where did Jesus get this idea from?" and assume that it means Jesus derived stuff from the Bible, like any ordinary preacher might.

[@FriedMetroid]

I agree with you, but I'm not sure about one detail. If Jesus in His incarnation began as a man with a human mind, wouldn't He have had to study the scriptures same as anyone else, excepting special revelations given by the Father?

[@Ruperdepuup]

How do we know the decree to rebuild the temple was issued in 457 BC?

[@thadofalltrades]

Because the Bible records the year it happened and we know when that was

[@daylightsober6138]

@@thadofalltrades What’s the reference?

[@thadofalltrades]

@@daylightsober6138 Ezra 7 is when the final and most expensive command was given by Artaxerxes. It happened in the 7th year of his reign, which we can pinpoint using Persian records to 457bc

[@daylightsober6138]

@@thadofalltrades: Ah okay, thanks!

[@DanielApologetics]

B-E-A-utiful!

[@maxalaintwo3578]

Simply, wow!

[@stutteringdisciple1919]

im unable o find ay information proving that in 457 there was a decree to rebuild the temple, it seems like theres a debate over it on the internet, can someone please help me?

[@Nov_Net]

I just watched useful charts video series "who wrote the Bible", where he went through Daniel and revelation and now you just posted a video regarding Daniel as well. Very interesting...

[@friendlyfire7509]

Music is good. Helps me focus. TY

[@Real-pn7mj]

Not just that but the number 490 has a meaning its self, Daniel 490 years untill the death of the Messiah, Peter tells Jesus how much shall he forgive his brother only 7 times? And Jesus tells peter this Matthew 18:35 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven." Which is what 490. This number is used for a purpose and all over the old testeemont it pounts to or about The lord Jesus Christ.

[@arenmoore2516]

This is awesome! And also shows the goodness of God. Because per the Daniel prophecy, we would have expected to see a great majestic being come down from the heavens and immediately crush the Roman Empire... and He did. But in the most human, relatable, yet spiritual way possible.

[@jonathanspangenberg1563]

That was great thank you. I have been struggling with all the weeks and dates.

[@marksmith6885]

Great work!

[@hermanessences]

"490 years, or about 70 weeks of time." What? ...

[@thevfxwizard7758]

In this case, a “week” is representative of 7 years.

[@margaretrutherford5548]

A 'week' is a period of time called a seven. We know in this case it refers to seven years because the period of time from the issuing of the decree to rebuilding Jerusalem is 49 years (7 x 7 weeks)

[@FromValkyrie]

Leviticus 25:8 ‘And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years.

[@williambillycraig1057]

Great video as always.

[@mikeyant2445]

Three Facts About Jesus Christ You Need to Know...Before You Refuse His Salvation. 1 The Servant Songs of Isaiah promised that Someone other than Israel was going to die as an atonement for mans sins, and rise from the dead. The result of which, would be that Gods salvation goes viral among the Gentiles, with many being forgiven and being made right with God. 2 Daniel prophesied that a worldwide atonement for sin would be connected with the death of an anointed Prince, right before the destruction of Jerusalem, and the 2nd Temple. He also prophesied this would happen during the time of the Roman Empire. 3 At that promised time Jesus Christ came, performing miracles like Moses did, and through His atoning death and resurrection started His Church, through which Gentiles by the millions have come to worship the God of Israel.

[@micahpond6895]

This is a good video, but please explain to me how dose 70 weeks equal 490 years if there is only 52 weeks in one year??

[@TestifyApologetics]

In a nutshell, the number "seventy" appeared earlier in chapter 9 when the prophet was reading in Jeremiah about the desolations of Jerusalem having ended after "seventy years" of captivity (v. 2). According to Gabriel's message, there would be "seventy sevens" or "seventy weeks." If the "seventy" of Gabriel's message played on Jeremiah 25:11-12 (see Daniel 9:2), it is reasonable to assume the "sevens/weeks" also played on Daniel's 9:2. "Seventy seven weeks" probably meant 490 years (70 x 7). Many if not most scholars think that he's referencing 490 years.

[@micahpond6895]

@@TestifyApologetics Okay that makes sense. thank you for your comment. numbers are never my strong suit lol. BTW thank you for your channel!

[@FromValkyrie]

Leviticus 25:8 ‘And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years.

[@ChevySamk]

how do you work this out with the dating of jesus' ministry being 27 - 30 AD as more likely from evidence in the gospels (especially luke 3)

[@WilliamBranhamsermons]

God bless you

[@grantlayton3089]

How do you combat the claim that the church added or changed these verses to fit for Jesus arrival?

[@TestifyApologetics]

For starters, they're in the Septuagint which is a manuscript that is 200 years before Jesus was born.

[@realityhits3022]

@@TestifyApologetics what would you say to those who say that this was a self fulfilled prophecy? The manipulated the events to force the fulfillment of the prophecy.

[@SugoiEnglish1]

@@realityhits3022 So Jesus knew the dates from Daniel and came into Jerusalem at that time? Well, it confirms Daniel's timing then doesn't it? i.e. that among the Jews in Jesus time there was an expectation of the Messiah. So now your question should be about whether or not Jesus was who he claimed to be!

[@HistoryNerd808]

​​@@TestifyApologetics Not to mention they are also in the Dead Sea Scrolls, I believe(could be wrong). As the DSS dates to around 100 to 300 BC, they definitely precede Christ. Also, the fact that they were valued enough to be considered scripture by the Essenes(who were the holders of the DSS), a very conservative and secretive Jewish sect suggest they had been around for quite some time before that. Would be weird if they had valued something that much that had just been written.

[@brianhartwell8728]

How did you calculate the 70 weeks to 149 years?

[@HistoryNerd808]

He didn't. It was 490 years, not 149. 70 weeks=490 days(days were often used as weeks in prophetic language)=490 years. -457+490=33=33AD

[@truncated7644]

@Testify, I read the Mclatchie article, while I disagree with him, I thought it had a balanced and informative tone. He concludes with "Because the evidence for an early date raises the probability that Daniel’s many specific prophecies are genuinely predictive, which in turn raises the probability that Christianity is true, evidence for an early date may be taken as evidence directly supportive of Christianity." Am I beating a dead horse here with the observation that a loving God wouldn't make this so hard to decipher? I just can't fathom that God wants us to love him based an a probability, especially one that is based on an understanding of facts that could honestly be viewed in an entirely different way.

[@TestifyApologetics]

This isn't the one piece of evidence that should push everyone to believe, it is a cumulative case. If Christianity is true then the proper response would be to love the one who loved you first in spite of your sins. Where I might differ from Jonathan is I think Christians can normatively experience God in some kind of way. I don't believe based solely on a set of propositions and historical facts, I also believe because I think I've encountered God in real and personal ways. The question arises why he hasn't done that for everyone and the answer is multifaceted, complicated and beyond my ability to completely answer to your satisfaction, I'd guess. I'd just say to the individual to think through that answer themselves through their own introspection.

[@truncated7644]

@@TestifyApologetics That is a very sincere and welcomed response. At this point, you probably know I have a seminary degree, did missions, have a christian family, etc. I believed I had normative experiences of God's presence, forgiveness and love when I was a believer. If there is an all loving God who has a wonderful plan for my (eternal) life, I truly want to believe and follow him. It's incredibly disappointing to no longer have that belief. Why my understanding of the evidence for belief has changed mystifies and surprises me, why now, after so many years? I am not expecting answers from others, as you rightly point out. But it stings that I ask God to grant me faith, and even to overcome any willful suppression of the truth due to my unrighteousness, yet the more I learn the less I have confidence in the Christian story or its interpretation of the Hebrew bible. As much as this troubles me, what does it mean for believers who hold that those who seek will find and to those who knock the door will be opened? It seems to me that the only defense is to say that those to whom the door wasn't opened never truly searched with sincerity. I am curious if you disagree with that, and if you do, how do you avoid a Calvinist view of salvation?

[@funstuff81girl]

@@truncated7644 I would simply say that your story isn't over and God knows the heart. I do have a calvinist view of election however. I would add this: The scriptures intentionally display God's hiddeness, it is the described nature of the Biblical God. This can be confusing but biblically (and experientially) I believe its because conscious assent to the existence of God is not salvific. God could theoretically do more to prove his existence, but proving his existence is not important. I had a prophecy given to me about meeting a husband in two years. I told all my friends including several athiests. Multiple have met me and my husband and acknowledge this is inexplicable. None to date have changed their views and none have even investigated Christ! So I think God's hiddenness can be mercy sometimes. I think we overestimate our rationality. Not that you're like my athiest friends, but, I think God is hidden for good reason. I'll be praying for you and for God to supply you with the confirmations you need. Please come back ans lmk if he does!

[@truncated7644]

@@funstuff81girl Thank you for the kind words and well wishes. I appreciate that. While I now have many reasons to think Christianity is not true, (bible errors, contradiction in facts and theology, and changing moral practices) I acknowledge that when I was a Christian, they weren't deal breakers for me. The thought of an all powerful God loving me overcame my most troubling doubts. I no no longer think that an internal conviction of God's love is epistemically strong enough to justify belief. The reason being that people from other religions have similar experiences. If billions of other people believe false things based on their inner convictions, I want evidence strong enough to keep me from being misled in false belief. God would have to reveal himself to me in a way that convinces me of his existence and love in the same way everything else in my life is revealed, through verifiable, testable and repeatable observation. If your God for some morally justified reason chooses to be hidden, then I see no way forward by which I will be chosen for election. Why would he make me this way? Am I damned for wanting sufficient evidence?

[@funstuff81girl]

@@truncated7644 Well, I assume you could be convinced. That would be how you can be elected. Let me say as someone who confidently believes that whether you've received enough evidence can be a matter if perspective. For example, I mentioned one miracle to you earlier. I have seen and been told of many others. The existence of YHWH is undeniable to me, as he as proved himself via wonderworking. Athiests will handwave this claiming shocking coincidence or disqualifying anecdote. They discard miracle claims all the time. From my perspective, this is utterly foolish. From their perspective I am. However, the evidence is the same. And indeed, msny Indonesians have attested to miracles and not been saved. I think the idea that God must provide "enough evidence" assumes that we are very rational. That we recognize good evidence when it comes, and kneel to it, and know it. Human history proves this is not the case. In short, I would say that if you are convinced there's not good enough evidence you could examine what biases you may have in tbe standards you apply. I believe the Lord Jesus sometimes shows his wounds to doubting Thomas - but is it possible that would not satisfy you? What I'm getting at I suppose is that for me, doubt is more than a rational belief but also an intense emotion. Some of the worst doubt I've ever had has been unassociated to any logical beliefs. And I think God wants his people to experience doubt, the presence of doubt does not preclude belief. Nor will it disappear in the face of truth. I think this is why there's so much goal shifting (not saying you're doing this). "Why is there no evidence of God." "Well miracle evidence might just be super crazy naturalism, why is there no healed amputations." Sorry I'm rambling, but I think the summary is that your doubts are not necessarily true or necessarily a reason not to be saved. Does that make sense?

[@TFBentertainmentR]

For someone that has been so meticulous and accurate so far in the reading of scripture, it puzzles me how you add 7 + 62 and you turn it into 70. It's 69 weeks and the Messiah is dead. The 70th week is in verse 27 and describes the abominable of desolation, which Jesus quotes in Matthew 24:15 when responding to the question "what is the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?".

[@jamescummings6703]

Where do I start???? The 4th Kingdom is actually the papacy and as you can see it still controls the worlds religion. It changed times and tradition, And his power will become strong, but not through his strength (Dan 8:24). Son of Man is saying the one approaching the ancient of days is literally a man. Why is the word anoint used in Dan 9:24, but in Daniel 9:25 it's changed to Messiah? Now the King that will give the word to rebuild is Cyrus King of Persia, he is the anointed King spoken of in Daniel 9:25. According to Christianity Jesus is supposed to come back, but in chapter 26 it says the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more. The bible says on several occasions that the anointed King is Cyrus, not Artaxerxes.

[@andrewcarroll2100]

Not the entire 4th kingdom, just the little horn. It’s what all the reformers believed.

[@jamescummings6703]

@@andrewcarroll2100 Yeah that's true.

[@kaleryan-1005]

A note I would make about Daniel’s dating: according to Wikipedia, anyway, parts of Daniel 2 may or may not date back to the traditional time of authorship. So, worst case scenario, even if the rest of Daniel was a later forgery, I think you could still make a case that the prophecy about the statue was legitimate.

[@None-if3mo]

Wikipedia isn't a good source to find informations.

[@FromValkyrie]

If any chapter in Daniel is a forgery, that would discredit Jesus. Because he kept referencing Daniel.

[@gregkirschke5559]

The 70 weeks of Daniel 9, do not refer to a period of years. These are literal weeks and days that span from a time in John the Baptist's ministry (John 1:23) and through a shorter ministry of Christ or the Acceptable year of the Lord (Luke 18-19 ( perhaps about 62 weeks)), through Christ's crucifixion and resurrection ( the 70th week). Finishing with the 40 days Jesus was seen of his disciples (Acts 1:3) plus the eight days he was not seen of his disciples between visitations with his disciples (John 20:26). This adds up to 48 days (part of the 7 weeks) after Pass Over which brings us within two days of Pentecost. That accounts for the 70 weeks, without forcing years out of weeks ( an old error). Pardon I really am not trying to be pretensious. Just sharing.

[@FromValkyrie]

Leviticus 25:8 ‘And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years.

[@gregkirschke5559]

​@@FromValkyrie...but you are not practicing good eschatology. You are conflating the years of Leviticus 25:8 with the weeks of Daniel 9. There isn't any direct correlation. That both passages are in multiples of seven is not sufficient to connect them.

[@FromValkyrie]

@@gregkirschke5559 You're gonna teach me "good" eschatology? If Daniel is writing for a Hebrew audience, you think it isn't assumed that his audience knows exactly what he means with all the terms he uses based on their previous scripture? Because Í don't understand your presentism.

[@gregkirschke5559]

​@@FromValkyrie I am not trying to teach you anything. I am making sure others know that you can not conflate the Hebrew word 'sanim' (translated years) in Leviticus 25:8 with the Hebrew word sabuim (translated weeks or seven days) in Daniel 9:24. Nor can you conflate the law of Jubilee in Leviticus 25:8, with the vision about the time of Messiah in Daniel 9:24. These are not interchangeable. Good eschatology requires consideration of contexts not simply seeing multiples of seven and turning them into a math problem. Note also that Leviticus 25:8 uses both sabuim and sanim separately, so that sanim (years) modifies the normal use of sabuim (weeks) to give this special use that refers to the law of Jubilee or 49 years before the 50th year of Jubilee. But that dichotomy does not exist in Daniel 9, because years have nothing to do with Daniel 9:24-27. It's 70 weeks or seventy sevens. Assumption is always problematic. Be blessed.

[@FromValkyrie]

@@gregkirschke5559 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ If the weeks in Daniel are literal calendar days, explain to the house why the messiah didn't arrive within a little more than one calendar year after the prophecy. Quickly.

[@Christian_Maoist.]

Thanks for the video. I heard of this argument but avoided it due to the controversies that surround Daniel. Btw, do you know any good books that talk about the textual corruption of the NT?

[@TestifyApologetics]

The book Reinventing Jesus has 3 chapters on the topic that are helpful.

[@Phobos1483]

Beautiful

[@MultiMobCast]

Great video! God bless you.

[@DavidStirneman]

Great video as usual. I know that the dating (and interpretation) of the Daniel 9 passage is debated but you mentioned that it coincides with Jesus' crucifixion in 33AD. You rightly ascribe this prophecy to His crucifixion imo. However, in addition to v26 mentioning Him being cut off, it also references it again in v27 regarding the timing, "But in the middle of the week He shall bring and end to sacrifice and offering." This is because He was the final sacrifice to end all sacrifices. It was also evidenced by the veil being torn in two. The Jews did continue sacrificing until the Temple's prophecied destruction but His was still the final sacrifice in God's eyes. So although the end of the 70th week would be in 34AD (no year zero), His crucifixion would have been at Passover in 30AD which was approximately 3 and 1/2 years into His ministry. Also, another great resource for the book of Daniel is the late Bill Cooper's, "The Authenticity of the Book of Daniel."

[@biankapaloma]

Awesome

[@rossjpurdy]

It does not say during the time of the last kingdom, but rather the time of those kingS!

[@aaronsullivan1628]

Daniel wrote of the image which was a clock explaining time. And he also spelled out the finer points with regards the King of the South and North. Regards the clock, we are now in the feet of the image and the clay of the “sons of mankind” via immigration have infiltrated the King of the South, the dual Anglo-American Empire, and those who live in that empire feel the result. Regards the Kings of the South and North, Daniel explains how the King of the South would battle against the King of the North with “ships” and be victorious at the end of the Second World War. With the King of the North (Germany) out of the way, the King of the South (USA & GB) would “flood over and pass through” and gain control of almost everything. Now the King of the South lays the groundwork for the final battle as he plants his “palace tent” in the Middle East by Holy Mountain. We await the time when “news” will reach his ears concerning “the east and the north” (China and Russia) and then the King of the South “sets out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many”. Daniel says “he will come to his end and no one (NATO) will help him”. All should heed the warning.

[@andrewcarroll2100]

Messiah is cut off in the midst of the last week, not right at the end. And there’s no year zero, so it ends in 34 AD. The last week was 27AD to 34AD with 31AD being the crucifixion. Stephan was stoned in 34AD, officially ending the probation of the Jews.

[@ah_hispanvs]

If Jesus was born in 4bC did he die at age 36 then?

[@waipancholwaingor]

Good explanation

[@shanthalperera5216]

Didn't appreciate Sri Lanka being removed on the world map :D

[@TestifyApologetics]

Oh, they're not my drawings. Just a program!

[@shanthalperera5216]

@@TestifyApologetics I know... but don't worry, the gospel has reached the pearl of the Indian Ocean

[@richardrogers156]

I've heard from some so easy a child can understand it.It helps to study.The people that don't study won't understand they will follow a man thinking he will save them.Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Ezekiel 13.Strongs concordance bible dictionary in Greek and Hebrew helps to understand King James Bible.💪😇🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@Equal_Dust4934]

But wasn’t the Olivet discourse about end times?

[@Paladin_440]

No, it was about the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple, and the second coming afterward.

[@Equal_Dust4934]

@ the second coming is the end times friend.

[@Phobos1483]

A beast with ten horns and a lamb with two. Makes twelve horns. Like the twelve tribes of Jisrael, of whom two were kept apart to receive Christ, and ten were kept apart for another purpose. But there is a beast with 10 horns, and an antichrist with two horns, just like this written above. But, this beast with 10 horns, three of them hornes go, and one takes their place.

[@andrewcarroll2100]

457 BC to 27AD = 69 weeks/483 years 27AD to 34AD = 70th week/7 years 31AD = middle of week, the crucifixion There’s no year 0 490 years is cut off from the 2300 in Daniel 8:14

[@fa1509]

Can you explain each of the timeline better and the meaning

[@miroslavmatijevic6185]

"A large number of scholars believes that the abolition of sacrifice and gift offering relates to the prohibition clearly directed against the law of Moses. However, a word that has been translated to cease convey the thought of rest, repose. That word appears 71 time in the Old Testament, and it is always associated with the doing or realization of Jehovah's will, except perhaps in two cases [24]. The context also testifies against the idea that the abolition of sacrifice and gift offering means misfortune! 1. Seven weeks is set aside for a joyous event - the restoration of Jerusalem. 2. At the end of 62 weeks comes the Anointed - all the more reason for joy. 3. Holy covenant will be strengthened for the one week - undoubtedly great news for God's servants! Does the abolition of sacrifice in the middle of last week deviates from this pattern, and is it possible that the covenant is strengthened by the ban which prevents doing of Jehovah's will? The answer is simple, but stunning to ancient Israelite: ELIMINATION OF ANIMAL SACRIFICES SIGNIFIES THAT JEHOVAH'S ANCIENT INTENT IS REALIZED AND HIS WILL WAS ACCOMPLISHED!!! Almost eight hundred years in advance, Isaiah prophesied: " But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, and because of his wounds we were healed. " (Isaiah 53: 5,12) The servant of God was supposed to die in order to liberate man from the worst disease - sin [25]! Anointed Leader should be cut off after 62 weeks from restoration of holy city. Does not the words " and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease " give us the reason, the real meaning of this death? Should not the magnificent weeks end with complete victory over sin, and is it not reasonable to expect that the words which ends the description of these weeks should provide the cause for everlasting joy?" archive.org/details/treegenerationsandappointedtimes.7z

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

>jehova opinion rejected

[@loganpeterjones]

Very interesting! One question though; while 490-457 does equal 33, you’re forgetting that our counting scheme does not have a “zero BC.” Rather, it goes straight from 1 BC to 1 AD. Because of this, the distance between the two dates is subtracted by one. Which means if you start at 457 BC, and then go 490 years later, you’d actually end up on 34 AD (which is not when the Gospels say Jesus died).

[@samuelhunter4631]

When do the Gospels say Jesus died?

[@loganpeterjones]

@@samuelhunter4631 It’s tricky. It was either in 30 or 33 AD. This is calculated by the fact that Jesus was either killed on Passover or the night after Passover. We can know when this because the gospels describe it as being a Friday, and Passover is always during the full moon. Therefore, we can use math to figure out which year had a full moon on a Friday during the month of Passover, and thereby figure out which year had Passover on a Friday. And the years that work during the time that Pilate was governor are 30 or 33 CE.

[@nsptech9773]

@@loganpeterjones The interpretation shown in this video is actually incorrect. From 457 B.C, 69 weeks(483 years) were determined until Jesus started his ministry. Now this gives a starting date of 27 AD in which Jesus began his ministry(There's no 0 AD). Daniel then says in the middle of the 70th week, Jesus would be crucified. Count 3½ years from 27 AD and bingo that's 30 AD.

[@DavidStirneman]

I agree that the 70th week would end in 34AD. The 70th week began when his ministry began in 27AD. But remember that Jesus was cut off (crucified) in the middle of the 70th week which would put his death at Passover on 30AD which matches precisely with the prophecy.

[@nsptech9773]

@@DavidStirneman Yeah.

[@julianwalker217]

This prophecy was about jesus not the endtimes

[@andrewcarroll2100]

There’s no reason the pretrib rapture and anti Christ covenant theory should exist based on this.

[@friendlyfire7509]

reject the papacy.

[@csmoviles]

💖🙏💖🙏💖🙏💖

[@currnhyde3123]

One thing I'd correct is the word in Daniel that you said means "honor" actually means "glory". The Son of Man was given glory by the Ancient of Days. This is massively significant because God says in Isaiah 42 and 48 amongst other passages He will give His glory to no other/ He will not give His glory to another. The Son of Man cannot be "other" from God who spoke in Isaiah. The Son of Man is one with the Ancient of Days.

[@friendlyfire7509]

Is YAHWEH a trinity?

[@chubbyclub2502]

​@@friendlyfire7509Take a guess.

[@lior38]

In Daniel 7:17-18 it explains that the "son of man" is actually not the Messiah, but a representation of the nation of Israel (like the animals represent the kingdoms). How do you respond to that?

[@jonmkl]

The title “The Son of David,” which Jesus also called himself, was an unquestionable messianic title referencing the offspring of David whose kingdom God would establish eternally. It’s a moot point. He’s the symbol of the kingdom, and he is the messiah, and the king of the kingdom.

[@jaserader6107]

This is false. Daniel 7;17-18 is referencing the the holy people of the most high, ie god's followers, ie Christians. Stop with your blind faith skepticism.

[@NotChinmayi]

Dan 9. Son of man is messiah

[@mikesandlin2967]

You shouldn’t count 70 weeks from decree to Crucifixion. It’s 69 weeks and Messiah was cut off. There is 1 week left yet future, the Tribulation.

[@SugoiEnglish1]

That can't be. John, said he was in the tribulation in the first century!

[@davidmpoyi472]

John was transported to the future! That’s why it’s only 69 weeks

[@andrewcarroll2100]

There’s no reason to cut off and throw it in the future. 69th week (483 years) ends in 27AD, there’s no year 0 27AD - 34AD is the final week 31 AD middle of the week/cross Futurism was an attempt to discredit those who understood that the Bible pointed to the papacy as the little horn. The covenant in the midst of the week has nothing to do an anti Christ but is about Jesus himself, the end of animal sacrifices.

[@PhilipWilson2]

I dreamed about that image of Jesus coming to earth promoting Gnosticm. And he had the Aliens 👽 with him. And he was walking in the sky like an Egyptian walks. Because that is why he came here. Then I met the REAL Jesus Christ in another dream. And he looks just like an Ethiopian looking guy.

[@mikeyant2445]

Isaiah promised a worldwide event...the salvation of the Gentiles, associated with the atoning death and resurrection of the Servant of YHWH. Daniel describes a worldwide atoning event in the time frame of the Roman Empire, and shortly before the destruction of the second Temple. In that time frame comes Jesus, a Greater miracle workerthan Moses, Who dies and rises from the dead. To me, its too much by far to be coincidence...Jesus Christ is exactly Who the Gospel writers said He is.

[@CMGigas1803]

Yet, neither Isaiah or Daniel mention Jesus. Once understood there is no reason to believe they forsee Jesus either. Paul and the gospel writers used these sources (Isaiah and Daniel) to develop the narrative and theology associated with Jesus. The suffering servent who would take on the sins of his people was constructed to apply to Jesus. These writings of Isaiah likely originally referred to Israel as a people. Even if Isaiah was pointing to a messianic figure in some of its original context there is no reason to identify this with Jesus. Do you think it's possible the writer of Isaiah knew of other figures who were abused and suffered? Secondly, the writer known as Mark associated Jesus with the Son of Man in Daniel. This title Son of Man was later used and applied to Jesus by this writer. There is also good evidence to think that the writings called 1 Enoch applies the title to the biblical hero Enoch. In a similar way that the writer of Hebrews associated Melchizadek to Jesus. The prophecy of Daniel was being applied to numerous figures in the first century, including the Roman Emperor Vespasian (see Josephus, Tacitus, and Seutonious). The abomination of desolation occurred during the time of the Macabee revolt. Reapplying this to the Roman Jewish War is taking it from its original context. You appear to be viewing the gospel narratives of Jesus as historical and then showing amazement that they show connection to earlier jewish scripture. Rather you need to understand that the gospel construction of Jesus is created from these earlier scriptures not the other way around. What is the more reasonable hypothesis? What does it mean to say the Gentiles received salvation? What are they being saved from? Other than Christianity becoming one of the largest religions in the world how has Jesus fulfilled any of the messianic expectations? Has he brought peace? Does the wolf lay with the lamb? Have men turned their swords into plowshares? Has the kingdom of heaven manifested in any observable way? I would without reservation say no. Paul and Jesus also predicted he would return in the first generation. Yet this failed and has continued to do so for 2000 years. If the unsaved are damned to hellfire and the saved are promised an afterlife in heaven then this is only a claim. It is not provable or verifiable in this world. In fact nearly every claim of christianity that could be verified as failed or not occurred to this point. Remember, there is a reason most jews rejected Jesus.

[@mikeyant2445]

@@CMGigas1803 I need to understand... I disagree. The Servant Songs of Isaiah clearly teach about the salvation of the Gentiles, and associates that salvation with the atoning sacrifice of the Servant. Daniel plainly promises a great atonement 490 years after a commandment to rebuilt Jerusalem, and right before another destruction of that city. Also, he promises that the Kingdom would come during the fourth empire, which would be Rome. To top it off the prophets promised a personal effect of this salvation that can be personally experienced. I see all three of these data points are met in Jesus Christ...I personally experienced what was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

[@CMGigas1803]

@@mikeyant2445 As far as I am aware, the majority of jews do not dispute the idea of the Gentiles eventually coming to their God. So this does nothing to prove or disprove if Jesus is the promised messiah. What is certain is that the messianic fulfillments have not come to pass. Their is no permanent peace or restoration of the temple. In fact the opposite occurred. The temple was destroyed and the Romans took control of Jerusalrm. Their is no " kingdom of heaven" that is observable or verifiable during the Roman period. If it is purely invisible and undetectable than it is an irrelevant christian creation to anyone but believers. In other words, it has not manifested in any truthful way. I noticed you did not address the elements that could be verified in christianity. Why no return of Jesus? The new testament clearly communicates this should have happened in the first century? I would argue that christian ethics are built on this failed promise (turn the other cheek, love your enemies,, lend expecting nothing in return,, do not return evil for evil or revenge oneself,, do not worry about getting clothing or food,, do not marry if one is able,, do not store money/ treasure on earth, etc.) All of christianity is a promise with scant evidence to back up its claims. Your beliefs concerning the "suffering servant", 490 years ensuring Jesus' fulfillment, and Rome being the fourth kingdom are just hopeful guesses. All of these are endlessly debated by scholars and believers with no agreement. Which is why I continue to point out that Christianity fails on all its verifiable predictions and claims. I could discuss this much more but a comment section is likely not the best place.

[@mikeyant2445]

@@CMGigas1803 The fact that a thing is disputed can mean it is obscure, or that there are many that dont like its implications. I believe that the latter is the case in this situation. It is because of the contested nature of these passages, I appealed to their minimal points. The aspects of those passages that cannot be honestly contested, and even in them, Jesus comes out as the fulfillment. It cannot be seriously contested that the Servant Songs describe a viral worldwide effect. It cannot be seriously contested that this effect is religious/redemptive in nature. It cannot be seriously contested that this salvation is associated with the atoning work of the Servant in chap 53. It cannot be seriously contested that the Servant is distinguished from Israel in those passages. It cannot be seriously contested that Daniel gives a timeline for a great atonement, and that the timeline ends with the destruction of the Temple. It cannot be seriously contested that Jesus came and lived as the gospels described. Whether the Jews agree or not is of little import to me...it looks like Jesus is the fulfillment of this aspect of Old Testament prophecy. And finally, it cannot be seriously contested that the new birth experience fits very well with the description given of Gods salvation described in Jeremiah 31:31-33. So, for me and my house, we believe.

[@joerandle4818]

☀️😎✝️☀️✝️☀️✝️😎☀️

[@j.gstudios4576]

I searched it up and 70 weeks is bearly a year so how'd you get 490?

[@stutteringdisciple1919]

so in daniel each week is 7 years so every day of the week is 1 year, so go 70 weeks (years) X 7 you get 490 years

[@Greyz174]

A perspective on why this is not divine fulfillment of preductive prophecy The knowledge that [a reinterpretation of] this prophecy was supposed to be fulfilled during the first century kicked off a bunch of messianic movements. And Jesus, out of the many dice rolls, was the one that got the best / most successful followings. This mixed with the debate on specific dates (and the ad hoc harmonizations, like postulating a gap between the 69th and 70th week such that thr final one hasnt happened yet, or all of the events being fulfilled within the 490 years except for the temple destruction being moved to 30 years after the 490 year deadline) are what you would expect from completely naturalistic self fulfilling prophecies as oppsed to a divine ordering of events; human expectations made it sort of happen, and then harmonizations take care of the extraneous not-clearly-fulfilled details. The Dr Michael Brown approach of "we can debate about the details bur in general it must have worked out like this" only work on Jews that have a priori commitments to the word of God being fulfilled somehow. Atheists however can look at the details of proposed fulfillments (Orthodox Jewish or the varying Christian ones) and discard them because they aren't specific enough for this to not look like a completely human creation. And theres no anti supernatural bias needed, you can in theory believe in prophecy and also see that fulfillments of this one are ad hoc all around.

[@charlesnunno8377]

No he didn't.

[@TestifyApologetics]

but he did

[@charlesnunno8377]

@@TestifyApologetics No he didn't. You are a liar and a comfortable liar. Who has no motive to actually see what is there and not what you want to see.

[@charlesnunno8377]

@@TestifyApologetics "But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh"....and you might re-think your arrogant feel-good fantasies and assess all the mitigated possibilities which make such a prediction meaningless nonsense.

[@Phobos1483]

*-{.ן.}-*

[@Phobos1483]

How about this: things will not change, until we choose the change of the belief on Christ, God.

[@TheLastOutlaw-KTS]

Cyrus was the messiah who Daniel was referring to in Daniel 9…Christian translators changed the phrase “messiah” to “The Messiah” to make people think the text was talking about Jesus. The word messiah is used several times in the Old Testament and there are many different messiah’s and there is no definite article in the Hebrew Language….nor are there any capital letters used in the Hebrew language. The book of Ezra comes right after Daniel in the Torah but Christian translators again tamper with the Torah and separate Ezra from Daniel to trick people….cause Ezra makes known than Cyrus was in fact the messiah who would deliver the Jews from Babylon.

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

Cyrus, being a king, was indeed a messiah (annoined one), but he can't be what Daniel is talking about for his prediction of the four kingdoms.

[@TheLastOutlaw-KTS]

@@tafazzi-on-discord you can believe whatever you want to believe I am going based on facts. This is why they don’t teach Christian’s to speak Hebrew in Bible school cause they know Christians would figure out all these interpolations and lies that Christian preachers tell them.

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

@@TheLastOutlaw-KTS You can believe all the conspiracy theories you want, learning hebrew and ancient greek doesn't get you closer to God, it's kind of pointless when we have serviceble translations, no sunday school would waste the students' time for that. Now do you suppose cyrus fits the description of the stone that shatter the statue? If not please explain to me that prophecy.

[@TheLastOutlaw-KTS]

@@tafazzi-on-discord I dont know if Cyrus is the stone. Cyrus was just the messiah being spoken of in Daniel 9. Jesus is not the messiah. Jesus does not meet the requirements in the prophecy of Isaiah.

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

@@TheLastOutlaw-KTS So you see that your theory fails to fit the text, while ours can. I think that the interpretation that explains the biggest amount of Daniel should be preferred to yours.

[@anordinaryperson537]

Almost none of these prophecies have come true, so daniel made a mistake because no roman king has overthrown the three kings. Or Rome didn't hold the holy sites for 3,5 years. Besides, it's not Jesus that's mentioned there, it's Israel.

[@TestifyApologetics]

Is this supposed to be an argument?

[@brooks3376]

Really? Then why is it not mentioned ONCE in the “new testament”? You would think such a clear sign pointing to jesus would at least be mentioned….Answer: that “prophecy” was a later invention by christians.

[@briandiehl9257]

We have copies of it before Christians

[@justjuol3703]

It is mentioned... Also, how can it be a later invention when we have documents before Christ

[@brooks3376]

@ the prophecy of daniel is mentioned in the NT? Where?

[@doxholiday1372]

You can always tell who's actually studied the bible, and who's just repeating mainstream propaganda. Jewish caroenter boi? Jesus was a Galilaean Israelite, not a Jew, in fact there was no such thing as a Jew in Jesus' day, there were JUDAEANS, the inhabitants of JUDAEA were called JUDAEANS. Iodaioi in Greek. "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a Jew, or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or Hebrew." -The Jewish Almanac, 1980, p3 He wasn't a carpenter either, he was from a Royal family and was gifted a treasure of gold and costly spices when he was born (Most likely from relatives from Parthia). Of course their understanding of his position was a little fuzzy, while they knew he was born to be king, they mistakenly assumed he was to be King of Judaea due to being born in Bethlehem of Judaea. What they, and amazingly so many others (despite having the entire account at their fingertips) didn't understand is that his mother gave birth to him while traveling from their home in Nazareth of Galilee to Bethlehem of Judaea to register for the new Roman tax. Not because they lived in Bethlehem. For more context, his great uncle Joseph of Arimathea was a DiCurio who owned tin mines in Cornwall, and was gifted a large amount of untaxed land by the British King (Arviragus). So, he definitely wasn't whittling cabinets and chairs to make ends meet. There's actually some evidence that he accompanied his great uncle Joseph to Britain on some occasions.

[@austinapologetics2023]

Wow, I just left Walmart. This was close. Anyways, do you know anything about Bart Ehrmans claims that the New Testament writers wouldn't, or couldn't, have used scribes to write. He said that there was zero evidence that they could've used scribes in the first century in his debate with Darrel Bock and it caught me really off guard as I had never heard this before.

[@TestifyApologetics]

I don't get it. Paul used scribes, the scribes identify themselves in several of Paul's letters. (Romans 16:22, for example) Why would it be different for other NT authors?

[@jamiehudson3661]

Ehrman will do anything to try and win a debate - even lie. IP has a video that shows Ehrman saying that the Apostles were to illiterate to write, but then in another clip talking to someone on a podcast, he says that they could have used scribes.

[@Christian_Maoist.]

@@jamiehudson3661 do you know the video?

[@servantofjesuschrist8606]

@@jamiehudson3661 I always respected Ehrman for being a great scholar but never knew he was so dishonest!

[@jamiehudson3661]

@@Christian_Maoist. I will try to find it and post the link here.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

I would also recommend checking out this channel called rockislandbooks... They explain prophecies in the bible through passages...