The BAD Of The Wheel Of Time!😞

Am I a biased Wheel Of Time fan? Yes, yes I am. Do I recognize the series flaws? Hesistantly, yes.
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[@DanielGreeneReviews]

I do plan a spoiler filled follow up to this video in the future! Im waiting for the comments from fellow WoT fans who are furious I acknowledge that it isn’t perfect 😂

[@Saucyboy1776]

I dont even care this just got spoiled just happy it happens

[@matthewksiders]

How dare you!

[@Dave-sk9mn]

it is blasphemy, but I get it. Parts of the books can be sloggish. I would argue the Rand chapters are NEEDED, that's about it.

[@MrLemonaiden]

It takes a very special kind of person to see the flaws in something they love, I think you did it justice. I think I love you more because you aren’t blinded by bias. Well said Daniel, thorough and concise

[@mikemorenilla7444]

I actually hope that they don't write the Aiel to be too invincible as Jordan seems to describe them, at least 5 books in. I think Herbert had that problem with the Sardukar in the Dune series.

[@santiagovidal4497]

MAN1: Oh boy here I go being stoic and braverly! Huzzah! Throwing myself in the face of danger with little care! WOMAN1: *frowns, smooths skirts, tugs braids, sniffes,* Oh golly, you men and your brashness! If you throw yourself in the face of danger with little care again, I'll box your ears! WOMAN2: *sighs*, Oh!, but that man sure is handsome! Despite my usual serious demeanour and character type, I will become flustered and behave like a 14 year old asking her crush out. Because of my emotional state, I will act unpredictably and say things that contain meaning that any functioning human can parse, but not the MALE, because he is so wool-headed! Men! EVERY MAN IN FRAME: ...does eye-contact with every other man, before looking at the reader, raising their arms beside their heads and collectively saying "Women, am I right?". They promptly do something dumb and get hurt.

[@Fantozz2]

That's it. That's the entire book series.

[@lord_ishamael]

@@Fantozz2 He nailed it

[@XardasW4]

This comment is seriously underrated.

[@SilkyCayla]

I came here to write something like this. I finished the series but it was a struggle mostly because of stuff like this and i'm bugged Daniel didn't mention it. To me the book series was so drowned in this crap that i couldn't see the forest from the trees. I finished WoT about 3 years ago and to me it was a decent series but not a favorite because i couldn't enjoy the more complex aspects or worldbuilding and character development because of all the junk. Watching some of Daniel's videos about why WoT is great opened my eyes, but because of my personal reading experience, I wouldn't read it again because of this writing style.

[@witchsorrowful1918]

So accurate.

[@mikesbookreviews]

When you get mentioned on a Daniel Greene video it feels like you've hit the big time. Thanks for watching the review, my man.

[@manandhar8064]

Keep up the good work. Really enjoying your content :)

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@manandhar8064 Thank you! It has been a fun ride so far and the fandom has helped make it that way.

[@christinemusson9101]

Seriously enjoying watching your reviews! I'm on my 3rd reread now because of the show.

[@mikesbookreviews]

@@christinemusson9101 Thank you so much. I'm so pleased I can help folks relive that first run through the series. I'm quite sad I'm on the last Jordan book now.

[@christinemusson9101]

@@mikesbookreviews oh to read A Memory of Light for the first time again! Enjoy every word!

[@frank7411]

Daniel is such a die hard fan of the WoT that even when he's talking about its flaws he makes me want to get into the series again.

[@Assassinwolf731]

"You can skim the slog" *Listens to audiobooks at 3.50x speed*

[@somekidwithaphone3345]

*skips elayne chapters*

[@BL4RG4N]

I was gonna say "...But what about Audiobook listeners?

[@tomsharo8457]

@@BL4RG4N we fall asleep and miss anything anyway! LOL

[@samuelleask1132]

*skips Nynaeve chapters*

[@samuelwallace2782]

Honestly, I've started listening to the audio books at 1.45 speed. It takes a while to work up to that until it feels normal, but it makes the entire series flow very well. Even the "slog" feels much more natural.

[@pandamoniumdev]

The biggest thing that's bothered me has been the romances. "We've been a room together 1ce and we're in love from a slight glance at each other....years later I can't forget him..." I'm on book 5 now, but this has been rough. The Rand/Elayne romance is probably my least favorite because they barely know each other. That being said, I like how he broke off Rand/Egwene in a way that feels real when you're developing from a teenager to an adult and those feelings just don't exist anymore--people grow apart but still care about each other. Great video. Thanks for prepping me for the slog!

[@erfanashkan5925]

But at the same time the way Egwene and Elaine planned the "breakup" to manipulate him and make him go to Elaine and how easily he just switched to some one else in that scene. It made my blood boil. Like let the feelings develop..let him get over the other relation first. does Robert Jordan know what a non abusif relationship is ?

[@zidaryn]

Yea, some of the relationships have some major issues. Most are like quirks. But Rand/Elayne is one where it gets weird. Flip, Rand's harem is just weird and makes me want to burn him.

[@honorisalive]

I’m also on book 5 now and I have a bigger problem with Rand/Min (for the same reason - they’ve interacted even less than Rand and Elayne) and Rand/Aviendha (for a different reason). They make no sense to me.

[@watcherofwatchers]

To be fair, a LOT of real life romances ARE like that. They don't tend to last, because the foundations are so weak, but I have personally witnessed more of that type of romance/relationship than ones based on more "meaningful and solid" foundations.

[@KaitlinLuksa]

The worst romance of all is Egwene and Galad. I just do not understand an intelligent and capable woman like Egwene falling so hard for... Galad lol.

[@djsuth7727]

Terry Goodkind disliked this video for daring to say there is no book, or series, that is perfection exemplified.

[@lill1418]

I just started playing pandemic and I cant stop laughing every time the news scroll proclaims him as the greatest author.

[@Charistoph]

@@lill1418, while I did enjoy the Sword of Truth series when it was coming out, once I finished the last book, I felt complete on it and have had zero desire to go back and read it again. It's not that I found the ending bad, in fact it fit in quite well with the entire series, it was just that I felt that it had completed that journey with no need for a reread. Now pardon me as I choose whether to complete my 3rd read through of Safehold, my 4th (or is it 5th?) read through of Honor Harrington or my 8th read through of the Belgariad.

[@allthenewsordeath5772]

Lill I think you mean Terry Pratchett.

[@gingerginger999]

@@Charistoph Amen, I felt the same way. Loved Zedd who was a little mawkish, but a great character.

[@Charistoph]

@@gingerginger999, I will admit, Zeddicus Z'ul Zorander is a character I would have no problem reading more of, or again. It was just Richard enduring pain after pain and pulling the answers almost from nowhere which made it less endearing.

[@J.Schooley]

Egwene and Gawyn together just baffles me. I feel like I can count on one hand how many times they have even hung out together and I'm halfway thru The Gathering Storm

[@areallyboredguy5825]

Anyone remember “the man who calls himself Bors” I mean it’s only mentioned like 15 times in the prologue.

[@martellgomez729]

Yes, and the reveal of who he actually was BLEW MY MIND!

[@joshheard3148]

I love the way Michael Kramer says Bors lol

[@runningcommentary2125]

To be fair to the man who called himself Bors, he only called himself Bors in that place.

[@miad3559]

im gonna be honest i dont remember that at all and i JUST finished the series two days ago

[@CMKloser]

@@runningcommentary2125 Until one of the black sisters calls him that...

[@vellichor7676]

Similar to the criticism regarding romance ("Boom, now they're in love!") I felt a similar way concerning conflict among the characters. Characters would fight, bicker, and spite one another for essentially no reason; the conflict -- like the romance -- would just appear because Jordan needed it to. In later books I was often disheartened to see previously close characters fight with one another without justification. Oh, and Nynaeve tugging her braid and boxing male character's ears 238 times a page. That wears thin pretty quickly.

[@erickalfaro8389]

Ah, seems like you were raised in a healthy enviorment. In my experience this is exactly how a lot of people I was raised around are. Like to the point of stabbing.

[@Stripemas]

and I would have to say, "Boom, now they're in love," is actually a pretty common occurrence in the real world as well.

[@winxclubflora8446]

@@erickalfaro8389 my biggest annoyance is nynaeve being angry and rude for no reason shes acting like a karen whose glorified.but i am on ch 7 of the first book does she get better in later books?

[@erickalfaro8389]

@@winxclubflora8446 yeah, honestly they all mature and grow up. It worth to push past the slow books. I promise.

[@erickalfaro8389]

And that's on book like 8-10 imo. The rest are amazing.

[@cdubbau135]

Minor spoilers alert: The slog: Perrin looks for Faile and says her name 10,000 times in 400 pages. Faile tries to get a Rod, and the Shaido do the Aiel version of politics. Elayne is a bit of a dumbass, Egwene blames Rand for everything, and Mat is always awesome. The Seanchan are there doing stuff. Rand does somethings awesomely but in the last bit of the slog, gets a little boring. The slog ends in the awesomeness that is Knife of Dreams and the last 4 books (while there are a few problems here and there) are amazing.

[@brendanmckenna7613]

The "perrin looking for faile" section is the worst part by far, imo. It just feels like progress isnt being made. I cared a lot more about what was happening to faile than about perrin's attempts to find her. I feel like the could've sidelined perrin for a few books, kinda like they do with one character in the third book (you know who i'm talking about)

[@cdubbau135]

@@Danmeilover69 Are you talking about when Mat was trying to be nice to Berelain by bowing to her? He was explaining that if he had pinched her or somehow insulted her then her rudeness would be warranted. But he bowed to her and she was downright rude about it.

[@Danmeilover69]

@@cdubbau135 Oh! Okay that makes way more sense! I must have been really out of it when I read that scene. I went back and looked at it again. What was I thinking? I am really sorry for being a moron.

[@cdubbau135]

@@Danmeilover69 You weren't being a moron. There are always times, especially in books like these where the author's words tend to bleed together if you read them long enough. And I understand. It took me a bit to warm up to Mat, but give it time. He really is awesome.

[@Danmeilover69]

​@@cdubbau135 I know. But I still feel really dumb for doing that and I could have hurt someone's feelings by insulting their favorite character without having took the time to think first.

[@AsiniusNaso]

One thing that bugs me is all the similar names! Elaine, Egwene, Elaida, Aviendha... I know this is a slight inevitability of epic fantasies with 2200+ characters, but more could have been done to distinguish names. Also yeh, a lot of the romances seem to just sort of... happen.

[@jordanb220]

The worst for me is when similar named characters are in the same area since I'm listening to the audiobooks. Perrin = Verin Mishima = Masema

[@derickkaz6096]

They dont even sound the same How do elayne and aviendha are alike?Egwene and elayne are alike because they start by E?You should have used better name for your argument

[@0xyartes]

Black Ajah hunt with Seine or Siene, wtf was that about... also no one has same name as another? Seriously you have a world where no one named an heir or used anothers name but one person and that was because they were actually the historical figure they pretended to be!

[@greg_mca]

@@derickkaz6096 elayne and egwene rhyme. It says so in the glossary

[@peopleschampiii584]

@@jordanb220 Damani Domani yea i agree 100%

[@harmonierainbow7559]

No one: No one at all: Robert Jordan: [whispering] Now kiss.

[@kriplaniankit774]

??

[@jemsterr]

!!

[@figjam9530]

%%

[@lavranstvinnereim7921]

I dont Get it

[@jemsterr]

@@lavranstvinnereim7921 Google the now kiss meme.

[@corriblehunt4554]

I actually got to a point where I'd want to scream every time he described Cairhien architecture and fashion. Skimming got me through a LOT of these books. No just the slog. If GRRM mentions food, skip a page. If Jordan mentions clothes, skip 2.

[@eloyc4245]

Re: the repetition. I think you make a great point, Daniel. If you’re “binge reading”, for lack of a better term, the entire series, it probably seems grating. But for those of us who were reading it as the books came out, it helped keep details straight (a lot of this was in pre-internet days. No huge character glossaries online. I kept a journal through the years with all the prophecies written down.) I mean, I would re-read the whole series every couple of years anyway, but it still helped. Bug under some circumstances, feature under others. Thanks for the video!

[@jamesmacleod9382]

I feel the same, the books came out every couple of years and sometimes you need a a little reminder of details. Just skip the paragraph if it bothers. Also the editors will actually want a little repetition in case a reader is picking it up to read out of order.

[@Dackad]

I agree. The repetition was a little grating back when I was reading as the books were being released, but it was generally not the biggest issue I had with the series. Nowadays, as I'm in the middle of my reread, the repetition is much, much worse and I end up skimming over much of it.

[@SrikkanthG]

Do you recommend not to binge read the series? I'm asking because I just started with the first book and I'm super bored.

[@eloyc4245]

Srikkanth G well, all the books are out. It is complete, so at the end of the day, reading pace will solely be dictated by your level of enthusiasm. All the books have parts which are slow, and all have parts that move at speed and they have multiple prophecies which hint at future development. Part of the joy for me was keeping track of all those prophecies and all the theories and seeing them each get ticked off the list in wonderful ways. But we each have our own tastes. I’d recommend reading the first 2 books. If you’re not hooked by then, then reconsider. Book 2 is awesome, Book 3 is slow, book 4-7 are awesome, 8-10 are the slog, 11-14 are the glorious, long awaited ending. And, like Daniel says, only read New Spring after book 5

[@SrikkanthG]

@@eloyc4245 Wonderful. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm finishing up the first book and it's only towards the end that my interest is peaking. I'm not a prophecy or theory person. I just read and let the narration take its way. May be that's how I read as I'm new into the Epic Fiction Genre.

[@JeevesAnthrozaurUS]

"People who slowly read books don't mind repetition" Well, that's me

[@LukaMagda1]

Me too. I wasn't aware there was a 'slog'. And since I've reread the series many times I guess I really don't mind repetition.

[@ApequH]

I don't read fast and I hate repetition. I makes the story even slower

[@pratyushbzr]

One thing I'd like to tell the characters of The Wheel of Time after reading 6 books: Can you guys just like, TALK TO EACH OTHER for once!!!! Really it gets annoying especially with Nynaeve and Elayne

[@witchsorrowful1918]

Same

[@Psykogarv]

Yes! Exactly this! On my 3d reread and I get so frustrated with the lack of communication! So many problems that could be avoided if they just talked and explain their point of view, not ASSUMED that everyone saw things their way! And then be pissed when people don't.

[@lokodout7514]

I actually enjoyed this because of how well it mimicks real life lol

[@jmace2424]

With A Song of Ice and Fire it is so easy to tell who is who and where you are at all times. With Wheel of Time so often I have to be like “Who is that?” And “Where are we?” that eventually I just stop caring.

[@Alec-xk4th]

I was that entranced by the series on my first read through that I didn't even notice the slog.

[@davidr5380]

My two biggest criticisms of WoT: 1. Too many adjectives, not enough verbs. 2. You can't spell Faile without Fail. I just wanted her story arc to end in her death about midway through.

[@mattbinkowski2095]

I sort of half expected him to get with berelain until FAILE came back and I realized that multi book whole jealousy arc was just to waste my time👎

[@Noridaii]

My biggest issue is that Jordan obviously only ever met one woman in his life. All his main female characters have the exact same personality, way of expressing themselves and even dialogue. They feel like he has a female template that he dresses differently, gives them a different backstory, but they all act the same way.

[@iamqtpie2825]

That's kind of how I felt too when I first read the series years ago. I couldn't relate much to the female characters (which was a little weird as a female) and didn't think they were different enough from each other to really be representative of the many personalities women do have. However, there are certainly women who behave similarly to his characters, so I didn't let it bother me overmuch. I'm still a huge Wheel of Time fan for a bunch of other reasons just like Daniel Greene.

[@pipsqeak7104]

Eugene and moraine are a little different though.

[@RushavMohanty]

I always appreciated what others have called the "slog".....I always appreciated that maybe by chance or by Jordan's own plan, the "slog" part accurately mimics for the Reader the kind of frustration Rand must have felt having to "slog" through petty national politics when all he wants is to spill some blood on the some rocks and get the whole ordeal over with

[@nvwest]

Rushav Mohanty I like this viewpoint

[@nickcooke2955]

Agreed. That and it was sort of a placeholder while he positioned the world for the conflict incoming, although he could have spread it out more and interlaced it,he did what he could.

[@Henry-jp3mc]

The slog was just Jordan milking the story cash

[@brandonmusser3119]

@@Henry-jp3mc of course he was that's what a capitalist does we've got to write books we've got to make things we've got to bro things we've got to manufacture things just like he did with these books that's what makes him great

[@ahorrell]

I'm almost done with book 4, and the thing that gets me the most so far is the female characters. His descriptions of women are often very 'breast-centric'. Necklaces are never worn around someone's neck, they're worn above breasts. Hair doesn't run down past shoulders or backs, it runs down over breasts. People cross their arms above or below their breasts. And don't even get me started on dresses. Whenever I see it, it always knocks me out of a story that I'm really enjoying and makes me go "Aw, c'mon RJ, did you have to write it that way?"

[@pipsqeak7104]

Yeah that is pretty annoying alongside the general nyniyeve gender war stuff

[@bradleygalo4775]

@@pipsqeak7104 What Nyaneve gender-war stuff?

[@joeyjerry1586]

Ngl though I do respect how Jordan sees breasts as just a natural part of a female’s body rather than being used as a form of sexualisation or being inaporopriate. Breasts are treated as casually as arms and hair and it’s refreshing to see

[@flesruoYkcuFoGuoY]

The books are for adults, be an adult. Get over it.

[@ManSeekingMeaning]

I respectfully agree with the two comments above; A) it’s an adult book series, meant for adults to be consumed as such, and B) breasts are just another body part to be acknowledged. It’s not sexualization to talk about hands and hair and eyes as often as Jordan does, so breasts (covered, at that) should be no exception.

[@TheNum8274444]

I finally gave up to the pressure, I'm gonna start reading The Wheel of Time! I'm both excited and intimidated to start this lengthy journey. (Great videos btw lol)

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Given the enormity of the task, Sanderson did an excellent job with the last three books, bringing the series to a more than satisfying conclusion. As a fan who intends to re-read the series, I never felt "the slog" in the middle since there are definitely some great moments in those books, but I do think Jordan's writing would have benefited from some editing to cut down on description in places. I love your insight about Wheel of Time being a bridge between classic and modern fantasy.

[@samuelerickson1815]

I can’t wait to read WoT again in two years when I have finished my other list of books and am out of college

[@NoMereRanger73]

TubLar Good luck with college! You can do it!

[@lepragunner1586]

Same over here, bro

[@joshheard3148]

Listen to it! Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do an absolutely amazing job on the audio book and you can control the playback speed.

[@Rennies-World]

The big thing that bugged my about the series is that Jordan's idea of female empowerment seemed to be the ability to abuse men in whatever way they saw fit.

[@TokyoBlue587]

Yes! This! I hated this about the series.

[@kevlar1482]

I don't think you get it. A lot of people don't. He flipped the power dynamic from men to women and the results are the same. Ever heard the saying absolute power corrupts absolutely? In our world, historically, men in power treated women badly. Do you get it now? It wasn't supposed to be about "female empowerment" at all.

[@Rennies-World]

@@kevlar1482 And how do you know that? Because that is definitely how it comes across to me. And clearly to other people as well. I honestly think he thought that women would find the Mat/Tylin situation amusing, but we definitely don't.

[@keriant]

This is just my personal taste but I am currently on book 6 and I think the books would have not lost much if they had been shortened by a good 30% for readability and pacing purposes. For someone who likes to follow plots and stories, I'm often discouraged to continue because I feel like there is so much pointless description and especially bickering between characters. I know that for a lot of people, that's "establishing the characters" and "developing them", "giving them fully fleshed personalities", which are very valid points, but I think Jordan often exaggerates a bit to a point where people just disagree with each other to extents that I find not only unrealistic but also a bit exhausting for the reader. I personally don't care much about the different interactions and relationships between characters and the "conflicts" related to it as much as I care about the wonderful worldbuilding, setting and plot Jordan created. I wish he could have done "more with less", if that makes sense? Maybe I'm just being too picky, I don't know.

[@mycaleb8]

I don't care what anyone says, most of the female characters are insufferable, at least early on.

[@mountainbikemayhem1833]

Truthfully I only liked 2, Moraine and Min...

[@kalebvanallen5369]

Yeah, it's pretty rough. I'm almost through book 13 now, and I have found most of them female characters don't become interesting until Sanderson took over. But I really enjoy the female characters in Sanderson's writing, I think he does a great job.

[@naughtscrossstitches]

I find as they start to get a purpose that actually drives them they become less insufferable because they have someone/something to direct their stuff towards.

[@ktbaduk]

Egwene always remained insufferable

[@boki1693]

Early on? the entire series.

[@Avarn388]

The whole concept of the slog in WOT I find fascinating because I argue that’s a tendency of a lot of long running series books, movies etc. there will come a point where things seem really stale and one note. For example I love One Piece. It’s one of my favorite manga series of all time. But ever since its time skip I felt it was a slog. Now recently it’s gotten really good and I see now that Oda was taking his time. Yeah I have criticisms of those arcs but they build upon one another beautifully. So to get back on topic if Robert Jordan did something like this I have no gripes about that.

[@pokedoctor2087]

Only Dressrosa felt sloggy, but the end of it and the allies they made there were awesome, not to mention the Rise of God Ussop!!!

[@Avarn388]

@@pokedoctor2087 Not really. Fisherman's Island was pretty meh as an arc. A good beginning and ending but a horrible middle part. Dressrosa was bad because it was too big of an arc and Oda could have accomplished all of it by breaking it down into multiple arcs. That said, it does set up a lot of the current arc as well. Overall, I find most of the post-time skip a mixed bag with Zou onwards actually being very good. And is a step down from pre-time skip.

[@sukanatkanchanabhogin3565]

damm...I need to get back to watching one piece then....I pretty much stopped reading the manga during the punk hazard arc

[@pokedoctor2087]

@@sukanatkanchanabhogin3565 read the manga, it has better pacing

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

If anything, the length of the series is my favorite parts. You can get an expansive, detailed world and a plethora of developed characters that simply cannot be achieved in a shorter work.

[@Devin_Stromgren]

If anything it's too short.

[@nslater1388]

Ok, this is going to be a rant, and I apologize in advance. I’m at book 7 and, while I will say I am enjoying myself, I’ve been on a steady decline since book 5. The fact that I seemingly have yet to hit the slog does not bode well, as I often find myself getting impatient with the plot, events and characters. I’ll try to to elaborated a little. 1. In the prequel novel there’s an entire section of buying dresses that goes into ridiculous detail about color, cut, material, sex appeal and the power dynamics of client and shopkeeper. It’s pointless. Similar scenes happens several times throughout the books. Characters are introduced, their day to day life gone into detail, and then they leave without affecting much of anything. And repetition of plots details and conversations does play a part as well. 2. This is a tad more tricky to explain, but here we go. I initially really liked Nynaeve. Her feisty, overbearing big sister personality was a nice dynamic to character interactions. But then she got stuck in the position. She was always angry, always fighting, always insulting men, always pulling her braid out by the roots, always ready to hit someone and, worse, bully them with the power. And many of the other women began always doing that as well, many times at the cost of common sense. “Don’t tell the men this very important thing that we are pressed for time to accomplish because they don’t need to know and only get in the way blah blah blah.” “Let’s use the One Power to bind/gag/hit/whip/thump the men we love because violence against their person is evidence we care.” 3. A continuation of 2, really. I very quickly grew tired of how many times Robert Jordan drew attention to how low cut a blouse was and/or sweaty the women’s shifts were. Listen, I get it, bosom is great, but I don’t need to read over and over how scandalized Nynaeve is at seeing a woman wear something indecent, or how the bloody Daughter Heir wants to wear this revealing dress or that low cut blouse. Half the time Rand walks into a room, there’s a naked woman standing there proud as you please and I get to spend the next ten pages reading about how awkward he’s feeling. Am I exaggerating? Maybe, but still! 4. The forced character conflicts. Light, I am sick of these fights. No one gets along! Every conversation starts to devolve into verbal fencing, sniffs of disapproval, forced power struggles and one character (usually a man) unable to understand why the other character (usually a woman) are so mad at them. It was interesting at first, and made the conversations engaging, but it all feels like it’s stuck in a loop now. 5. One character straight up gets raped by a queen at knife point and I nearly gave up. There’s cat and mouse games, and then there’s starving a man, backing him into a corner, putting a knife to his throat and having your way with him. And it’s treated with that bizzare nonchalance Jordan has whenever one character acts violently towards their significant other. And these are characters I’m supposed to like! And...I think I’ll stop there.

[@adamchristensen2648]

When you talk about Knife of Dreams I remember reading the third entry in The Song of Ice and Fire. I Feel the same way about A Storm of Swords. Best book I've ever read. I don't have anything else to say. Martin cemented his name in history with that book. A Game of Thrones is shocking and incredible. The payoff, stakes, and story in ASOS is so off the charts I measure every book I read by it. Hats off to Sanderson for the Stormlight Archives...its the closest I ever come to reading its equal.

[@stevegoldston1225]

I hope Perrin gets a more interesting arc in “the slog” in the TV series because he was one of my favourites.

[@jaygrewal]

Failll!!!

[@HairXX]

Apparently i am in the minority, but for me Perrin started to shine in "the slog". He stops thinking and for once takes control of his own fate.

[@jaygrewal]

@@HairXX but Faile.

[@HairXX]

@@jaygrewal more like "BUT FAAAAAAILE!?!!!!!!!!!"

[@jaygrewal]

@@HairXX touche

[@leifmiller8241]

When you're reading the wheel of time for about the 6th timre

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

Leif Miller I don’t know how many times I’ve read it. I know it’s north of 8, but I’ve also just reread specific closer to 15 times. Shadow Rising I’ve read at least 12.

[@leifmiller8241]

@@DanielGreeneReviews That's impressive. It's a pretty great series

[@Mangles91Tv]

@@DanielGreeneReviews Im the same .. Ive read EOTW like 9 times but AMOL only twice I have to say my favorite and least favorite book is The Shadow RIsing.. I love it because of all the progress the main chars make and the great scenes in the book... I hate it because the Waste is so Desolate it gives me a dreadful feeling thinking about being there

[@marcusone1]

I started reading it when book 3 was released. After book 6, 2 year gaps between books started, so I would read book 1-6, before 7, then 1-7 again before 8, all the way up to book 14. I've since read 1-14 every couple of years. Just finished again a few weeks ago :)

[@jameslightfoot1872]

I've read all 15 books 3 times. I love this series. The slog is not so bad on the reread. But back in the day when we were waiting 3 years between books only to have half of the story's plotlines advanced by a week was tedious. 10 years of the plot slogging along was brutal. Reading it now that it is completed is not bad at all.

[@Tom-bs3zh]

The Wheel of Time changed my life, and I'm not even exaggerating.

[@talmanes4589]

I can see where some of the repetition would be a problem now, with all the books published and you can go straight from one to the next. It was much less an issue when I first read the series and was waiting 1-2 years in between each book. Some reminders about things were helpful then.

[@christianemden7637]

Daniel I love your Channel, and the Passion you have for the Wheel of Time makes me feel bad that I couldn’t even finish the eye of the world, after about 3/4 I was bored with the book.

[@ChristmasLore]

Never did the trick for me either. Yet strangely, I rather enjoy hearing Daniel sharing his passion for it.

[@kunalsinghal1247]

Eye of the world you need to reach Camelyn. Once you reach Camelyn it becomes good. Author dragged the escape from Shadar logoth to Camelyn so much that anyone will feel bored since nothing great is happening.

[@christianemden7637]

@@kunalsinghal1247 I ended listening to the whole series as audiobook, that did work for me and I bought the remaining novels. But the series only became more appealing to me when Jordan changed Mat from an annoying character to an awesome one.

[@eladhen2]

You actually kinda made me want to go back and reread the series. I grew up with it, and the end of it came out quite late for me. I was lost to the slog. I read the Sanderson ending and enjoyed it after a fashion, but mostly felt like "meh... can't believe I once thought this was the greatest thing ever written". So yeah, maybe a reread?

[@Colonel_Overkill]

Love the series, last several times through the series I just flat skipped the later perrin and pregnant elaine parts....

[@jacksonlynch1731]

Man, I can't like this enough. The slog killed Perrin's character for me, and I never really got over it. I thought the Perrin/Faille romance was the worst executed, and the Faille kidnapping and Perrin Whitecloak plots were the weakest in the series for me. And I honestly thought that the only way to redeem Perrin's character was to have either he or Faille die in the final book. Pregnant Elaine was just maddening to read, as well. This was a situation where I felt like she was making terrible decisions just to move the plot along, and "because hormones" was basically the explanation for why a politically savvy young woman suddenly became dumb. It seemed like conflict for conflict's sake, rather than an organic development of plot and character.

[@NoorAhmed-nk2jq]

I'm now on my first re-read up to LoC, and already skimming Elayne stuff...I'm gonna breeze through the slog if I just skip her chapters ...yes I will miss an important bath or two but it is a price worth paying lol

[@scottgorsuch9893]

Bruh why you gotta hit me with that spoiler in the comments. To be fair I probably deserved it for reading comments but it is nice that on Daniels vids there usually are not any

[@iulia5677]

I got through the last 4 books with the help of the audiobooks. Love reading and listening to the audio. I cried like a baby reading the last one, as I got attached to the characters. I took me about two years to finish it, but it took me through some rough times. Indeed, it's a hard to read series, a ton of characters moments, etc. And yes, Mat is amazing!!!

[@StevenJohnson108]

My top question is: where did you get that amazing looking collector's set? In love with those book jackets.

[@ChristmasLore]

It's so beautiful! I lost all my hardcovers and paperbacks personal library some years ago, due some...sad, even tragic life event; and till this days, I do miss my physical books dearly. Some years ago, I made the "choice" (forced mainly by monetary concerns) to reconstituate it almost to the last title, and even some more new additions, as download e-books. It is fantastic, yet... somehow, it doesn't feel the same, and I will always regret my beautiful shelves full of colorful books...

[@WhyName]

Having a pretty good understanding of how sword combat works, most fiction that includes it is just cringy. I actually prefer the more vague approach. Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about, but he mostly avoided writing blatantly absurd shit. Also the fact that he didn't put swords on a pedestal is nice. A dude who has practice swinging a long stick will absolutely destroy you if all you have is a sword.

[@minimumviableplayer1402]

I read Eye of the World, and what bothered me the most was how little character development there was. There is little internal monologues, the ones we have seem repetitive and even less character interaction. If I could rename the book to how I felt after finishing it, it would be "Aes Sedai, should you trust them?". This isn't to say it is bad, just that at this point I can't say that it hooked me for the long run if it is going to mostly be a telling of events that occurred.

[@tungdilthethird9614]

The problem is that it is a 14 part series. So there can be a lot of fharacter development in 1 single book

[@seekeroftruth1970]

Worse, what was up with the cornball language? All of a sudden Rand starts replying to Ishamael and Shaitan like "I defy you prince of evil and will never succumb to your wiles", etc. What the hell was that? Character development was not Jordan's strong suit. And I loved the series.

[@c.camillejones5331]

Yeah I skipped Eye of the World when I was one my first reread. I was really irritated with the amount of whining and the general oblivious nature of my main characters.

[@joeleek9976]

Eye of the world was more about character discovery than development. You start getting character development in the next book or three. Shadow Rising is a pretty big book for Perrin's character. Matt gets some ok development later on in the series. Rand has pretty steady character development throughout the series.

[@roguewriting]

@@c.camillejones5331 They were oblivious... they were essentially children, going from a tiny village life, where they had next to no real concerns to having the weight of the world thrust on them suddenly and with little to no explanation. This stuff is essential, because the core of each of the main characters is based on who they were. One of the final interactions between Rand and Egwene is them basically sticking their tongues out at each other, because no matter how far they have come, they aren't that far from Emond's Field. Same with Mat and catching that fucking badger when he goes to meet with Perrin. The contrast is important. No one starts out being the most intelligent, rational, person. You say and do dumb shit, until you learn otherwise. These characters had to grow more in a few years than most people grow over their entire lives (just look at this comment section for reference). The depth of these characters is staggering, and more realistic than people seem to realize. They're all faced with insanely difficult choices, and consequences. They all do the best they can, but there isn't always one right answer. Sometimes, there isn't a right answer, just a ...less bad answer. I can't stand how most writers make their characters these paragons of morality. They have 2 choices, do good, or do bad. That's boring as fuck. They obviously choose good, and they keep choosing good, and there's no grey area. The choices Rand makes, or Elayne makes, or Egwene or Perrin or Mat make, are very often murky as fuck, because, just like real life, there is never an option where everyone will benefit. Someone will always be unhappy with your decision. Yes, some of the characters whine about dumb shit early on, and it can be annoying, but the characters ARE annoying. They're young dumb village kids that think everything is fairy tales. Egwene becoming the crazy strong Aes Sedai/woman during her time as a captive in the White Tower literally gives me chills every single time I read it. Her character arc is probably my favorite out of any of them. She literally fights to save every Aes Sedai, over and over, then ends fighting to save the world. A far cry from the mayor's daughter sticking her tongue out at Nynaeve behind her back. There are flaws in his writing, and some of it is cringy at times (I feel most of the "cringy" parts are extremely out of character moments where I find myself thinking, "They wouldn't say that..."), but overall, this is one of the finest examples of realistic character development. Full goddamn stop.

[@jimluebke3869]

Robert Jordan was literally sleeping with his editor. He married her, so that's more OK than it could have been, but she was easier on him than she could have been.

[@DAGDRUM53]

Harriet was about 10 years older than Jim.

[@cepopeye]

The thing about skipping the slog, is that when the pipe lights at end, you’ll long for more time in Jordan’s realm

[@martawolna6027]

I was reading 8,9,10 books for like 3 months, and then I've read 11,12 and 13 in a week heh

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

marta wolna a true fan experience ❤️

[@michaelscott4521]

Oh god on book 7 now its about to get bad?

[@paniklewe]

@@michaelscott4521 yeah it's viewed like this. I think 7-9 or so. I haven't read them. I guess not really bad but rather slacking as I heard

[@talmanes4589]

@@paniklewe I really like 7 and 9 but 8 and 10 are pretty rough. Especially 10.

[@rikgales123]

@@michaelscott4521 i would say those are fine but 9 and 10 are sooo slow especialy 10. I would almost say you can skip that book

[@lukea5067]

It took me a good three years to get through this series: I really valued the repeated content.

[@samanthaa.6055]

That 4 book slog where Perrin lost... something was so damn terrible. And I still don't really understand the timelines. Can't be skipped, but THAT storyline should be 1 book.

[@joeleek9976]

You didn't mention Jordan's portrayal of women in general. Makes me wonder what sort of relationship he had with his mother and wife.

[@deecsnissassa]

thats because in the world of the wheel gender dynamics are shifted. Men have a pretty hard time to stand up for themselves after what happened with saidin. in general you could say that those female characters you dont like are just machos

[@joeleek9976]

@@deecsnissassa i hadn't considered the cultural shift. That still doesn't cover all of the ground IMO.

[@derickkaz6096]

@@joeleek9976 its the world is more misandryst instead of mysogyniste and for pretty good reason

[@enaidealukal9203]

pretty much all the relationships in WoT are basically the same (woman calls man "woolhead", man thinks about how women are impossible to understand, etc), and I would bet a ton of money that they're all modeled on his relationship with his wife.

[@mousermind]

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET TWOT SERIES WITH THAT STYLE COVER. 😻

[@Turgon92]

Its from a specific company that does covers for books,he had made an entire video about that,but you have to search it on your own im too lazy to do so myself

[@angiep2229]

I've said this in a number of your videos. I find Jordan's writing intolerably sexist. I watched this whole thing while you listed issues that don't bother me very much at all, but you didn't touch on sexism at all. I know I'm not alone in this opinion, so I really just expected it to get brought up.

[@SpiceWeazel]

Amen! This was the primary reason I stopped reading. In the first book, Jordan really seemed to set up a cool dynamic where women hold most of the magical and political power due to their superior magical abilities. It also seemed like the female characters would have a major leadership role as they grew. But then, suddenly, it turns out men are just stronger and better at magic and natural leaders, while women swoon over every handsome man that crosses their path. They also became irrelevant because every conflict was resolved by Rand spontaneously developing a new power and obliterating the enemy.

[@mattwarden7854]

It was sexist to both sexes. It painted women as swooning idiots who couldn’t decide who they love and men as fumbling idiots who wouldn’t know how to tie their shoes without a woman to show him. It literally had me cringing

[@whhhhhhhhh]

Yeah i hate how men in the series are always being controlled by the smarter women

[@mariadocarmocandeias2640]

@@SpiceWeazel I'm so glad I've found someone who feels this way too! I liked the WoT tv show and so decided to read the books and was shocked at how sexist they are. The women have power, but not really, as in a lot of ways society still works the same way ours did and still does, women having domestic chores and the men having more to do outside the home. In the Two Rivers, the village council and the mayor have the official power, and it's said the women's circle has power indirectly by influencing the council, not directly. It's the old argument that has been used in our world to convince women to accept their domestic role, because they can have power through men (traditionally their husbands and sons). The women are written as manipulative and arrogant and men are written in a 'boys will be boys' way, some people say that it's sexist for both genders, but the way it's written, the men's behaviour is excused, and the women's isn't really. And why is he always describing random women as 'plump'?? Basically, I love the world, I think it's so well constructed, but I hate the characters. And it feels like the big message of the series is that gender roles are good, that women and men should have different roles, and that those two roles combined are what gives balance to the world. Which, just, no. Again, that is a classic argument that has been used in our world to convince women to accept their domestic role and accept not having direct influence in society, and also, individuals are individuals. A person doesn't fit a role just because they are a man or a woman. Each individual has a different personality and talents that define the role that best fits them, and they should be allowed to choose that role. I think the premise of this book could have developed into a strory of breaking free of gender roles, how doing that frees everyone of all genders, but it doesn't seem like that is what has happened...

[@samuelwallace2782]

I'm genuinely curious how far you read into the series

[@TheSkyGoat]

I totally relate to the Mat one. I started reading WoT in November, and I absolutely got bored in Mat's pov, but since the end of book 3, Mat has been one of my favorite characters, not just in WoT, but in all fantasy series

[@Ruzzky_Bly4t]

And I would say that Elayne is my least favorite one. In books 7-9, her politics were *so* boring.

[@ParchedGoddess]

I actually starting reading WoT when I learned that Brandon Sanderson was selected to finish it... don't doubt my love for the series though, my oldest son's first name is Perrin.

[@rashkae1]

Reading the wheel of time, I always felt as though Jordan wallowed in negative stereotypes for the female characters. It was strange in a book that was portraying a matriarchal society, it actually felt a little misogynistic to me. That was one of the most immediate differences I saw with the shift from Jordan to Sanderson, all of a sudden, the female leads were much more relatable and reading their arcs more enjoyable.

[@blues4509]

I'm only on the first book rn but I have to ask since I've seen it throughout the comment section. Are the women really that bad in WoT? Also what do you mean by negative stereotypes if you don't mind

[@blues4509]

@Josh Nonya oof I suppose I have noticed such behavior so far but I assumed that was just part of Egwene and Nynaeve's characters. Since Moiraine seems rather reasonable and collected.

[@boxbo7926]

Blues idk I haven’t really ever had a problem with it, but I can also see where people come from when they complain about it. I always really liked the female characters but everyone has their own opinion 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@blues4509]

@@boxbo7926 I'm liking the female characters myself so far, especially Nynaeve and she's the most bratty out of the girls so far. So I hope the way the women later in the story don't become needlessly cruel with their banter and actions towards men Josh above me mentioned. Here's hoping I continue enjoying all the ladies just like the guys. I like Lan and Thom so far too.

[@gator7082]

In the greater context of the story there is a reason the female characters are the way they are, and since some of those females go out like a boss, I'm ok with that.

[@whhhhhhhhh]

I'll die on the hill that robert jordans way of describing combat will always be GOAT. From duels to battles, his way of description allows your mind to create it, much like how in horror not showing the monster makes it scarier, not showing word for word tge combat adds to the epicness

[@timschommer8548]

I listened to the WoT on audiobook and only one of my two big criticisms of the series was addressed. *spoilers* 1. The point that was talked about was the ending. For me, the ending was deeply unsatisfying. Not only did Rand going "I guess I'm journeying on my own now" feel like a REALLY sour deal, but it felt like it failed to provide any sense of closure. We barely even got any idea of how things changed and fell out after the final battle beyond a rough head count of who lived and who died. I think the closest we got to that was finding out who was put in charge of the White Tower. 2. This was the big one for me, and it bothers me so much that, to this day, I genuinely wonder why I ever bothered to finish the series: 90% of the characters are so bigoted/biased that it is like they have blinders on. As one example: he made different cultures. That is great, but when every single member of those cultures refuses to ever see the possibility of things outside of those cultural views or to adapt their view based on their experiences, that rings extraordinarily false and dissatisfying. The other big example is how 99% of the women in this series treat/view any male, with the possible exception of their love interest. Birgitte was such a breath of fresh air because she differed from nearly every other female in the series on this and was willing to call them out on it. Is the first of my examples realistic or not? I have no idea, 2020 has weakened my faith in humanity, but it was still absolutely obnoxious.

[@GallowglassVT]

I'm up to Dragon Reborn now and I still think Jordan has some issues with how he writes women. Don't get me wrong, these are some great female characters, but still, the repetition of the phrase "folded her arms under her breasts" got pretty distracting at times.

[@benghis_kaan]

Yes!

[@landocalrissian8758]

I remember seeing the cover for knife of dreams, especially after book 10, and was just like oh no....but dang if those last four weren't great

[@FrusEldar]

Dunno, I read books 1-4 and gave up. And then I just read the last three books and I didn't feel like I missed anything. Perhaps I read a few summaries online and seriously, I am glad I skipped those inbetween books. The slog exists and it is quite bad...

[@deathsride1818]

Got to book 4, and if Nynaeve tugged her braid one more time in a scene, I was going to explode. Take out the tugging braids, and this series is a whole book shorter. There are so many other things like this too, its honestly ridiculous.

[@philippschmidt80]

I just started The Eye of the World and finished chapter 3 yesterday, so I have a looooong way to go but I'm looking forward to it. I've heard about the slog years ago and I'm a bit worried but knowing that skimming is ok and that one of the best books follows the slog definitely helps.

[@ytyler2012]

Philipp Schmidt I’m in a similar boat, friend. But I’m on book four of my first read through. You’ve got this!

[@0xyartes]

Slog is mostly just a few character arcs but they are long, I envy you, try waiting several years to get a book then it's several books of slog, you can condense them into one book probably. You'll run into them and think "what the hell were those chapters even about... what a waste of space, all that space for that!??!?!"

[@ytyler2012]

0xyartes I’ve gotten into the habit of rolling my eyes when I get to a chapter about Nynaeve, Egwene, or Elayne because I feel their arcs just aren’t as interesting as the ta’veren.

[@0xyartes]

Ty Young even as far back as TGH, their arcs are mostly useless foder, I still think he wrote them as some look women can do important things too but when you see what they did it's mostly worthless busy work. I will say though Nyn was by far the worst till about 5, of the women she has an arc and is called out by another woman and eventually is second on women characters only to Min at finish.

[@ytyler2012]

0xyartes see, I love Thom and I feel he was being wasted being bullied by the those two.

[@pullt]

The "slog" was mostly a problem for those who read it in "real time".... I'm not one of the few who read the series starting in 90/91, but I did pound out 1-3 in summer 92 then pretty much hit each one right on release. So the 8-9-10 "slog" lasted damn near a decade....

[@HistoryDave1]

There are mini-slogs in nearly every book, especially after book four. I was totally in love with this series through book five, eagerly awaiting each release on a yearly basis. By the time I finished to "Crossroads at Twilight" I was done waiting for a completion or at least plot progression. It was an exercise in Jordan self-love. I waited till Sanderson completed the series, then read all the remaining books, mostly from the library as I was tired of paying for the ridiculous filler in most of the books. Sanderson did a good job of wrapping what could have been an amazing work.

[@k.b.peterson8022]

I feel like if I can push my way through Feast of Crows and A Dance with Dragons, I can push through the Slog. Because, man, those books were a chore to read, not going to lie about.

[@FreddyChoppins]

I forced myself through Feast with the assurance that Dance returned to the characters and plotlines we wanted to see and even Dance was a slog. Not quite as bad as Feast but my god I never thought it was going to end. Those two books honestly killed my interest in even continuing the series, and this was in like 2011 when everyone thought Winds of Winter was a few years away. Oh how young and naive we were...

[@Nebol]

The slog stopped me the first time I read the series. Came back a few years later (gotta finish it!) but I remembered too little, had to restart from the beginning. Stopped again at the slog... 😀Damnit. It's reassuring though that I'm not alone in feeling this way. Will try again soon...

[@ZatoichiBattousai]

My problem getting into this series was just the same as LOTR, OMFG WTF WITH ALL THE EXCESSIVE DETAIL, did the author never hear about APPENDIXES or Accessories? Why the Excessive Info-Dumps? I have never gotten over the whole thing in the first chapter where Cleric says she's gonna tell a story, AND then proceeds to tell said story for the next 3 pages when 2 small paragraphs of summary would have been enough. Why the constant excessive detail, even HP Lovecraft knew when enough was enough.

[@stevenguitink5947]

I appreciate when someone can criticize something they love. It shows a maturity of character and a desire to see things done better in future things. One of things that really frustrates me about fandoms is when they function like religions; daring to speak out against something loved is tantamount to blasphemy and those people should be excommunicated. However, at least for me, the slog started from Book 1. There was so much needless minutiae in each book, so much needless description that added nothing for me except background fluff to the nth degree. I don't have a problem with a focus on minutiae but when you're stopping the plot to do so, I feel its detrimental to the scope of the series as a whole. Personally I don't have a problem with long series, when they revolve around a myth arc. I love the Kate Daniels books for being contained stories that nevertheless have a solid myth arc floating in the background that slowly gets revealed. With Wheel of Time, it felt like a needlessly large commitment to remember every single character, event, magic system etc for what amounted to "Defeat Satan." I'm a bit surprised you didn't tackle the whole men/women dynamic but given how much of a minefield that is, especially the current day and age, I don't blame you. But I will say that one of turn-offs for me was how little of a shit I gave about the characters. Stubborn, shallow, short-sighted, arrogant, naive etc. I'm a big believer in character-driven stories, especially ones that can bring a mediocre story up to something good and for me, the characters turned me right off the books. Got to book 3 and stopped giving a crap.

[@desired397]

11:00 YUP, the ending of the series really made me want another book, or three. Its ending, (I'll be vague, no spoilers about what actually happens) saying that everything is done, its peaceful and then laying down this potential for some amazing character interactions to come and even a new/revised magic system. Its felt like "wow, there are so many more stories that could be told but because the author has unfortunately passed, we will never read them" . It reminds me of finishing the LOTR books, and imagining all the new adventures that could happen in that world, and yet knowing there are not going to be anything really new (at least's not on the same level) coming. its hard to let go when you know its not really the end of the world, but just the end of the main story arc.

[@Dhowlan]

For many...myself included, The wheel of Time series impacted our lives. Greater praise cannot be bestowed. I feel sorry for those who cannot say that.

[@meithstorm7662]

I'm sorry I am too busy tugging my braids to listen you.

[@ElrohirGuitar]

I read all of Jordan's WOT books, but after waiting so long for the Sanderson books, I gave up. I decided to reread the series so that I can, then, read the remainder of the series. I was amazed that so much I remembered from the series was in the first two books. I am only on book for now, but I have gone through "how can anyone like Mat", I remember how much I liked the side characters, and that every time I encounter the Whitecloaks, I want them all dead.

[@michaelperillo9316]

My biggest issue with the series (in book 10 now) is the little plots that amount to nothing...theres so many little scenes and cliff hangers that dont get brought up again or amount to nothing or are brought up again but half a book or more down the way and my intrest from that plot thread had dissipated

[@nathanaelfriday7596]

HOT TAKE: [spoilers] Sanderson gets a lot of heat for erasing some of Mat’s character development, but also his fondness of Perrin manifests itself in making him overpowered with his casual dimension-hopping abilities. His game of hide-and-seek with Slayer gets more screen time than it should in the Last Battle.

[@janaanklassen87]

Thats because in someways his last battle scenes are more important than mats and about equal to rands if perrin fails for a moment against slayer rand will die and the wheel would be consumned

[@johnnemesh5459]

The biggest "flaw" for me is the length of the series...and how it just DRAGGED from like book 7 through book 11. Brandon Sanderson managed to finally wrap it up, and the pace of the last two books only emphasized how SLOW the previous ones were! Now, this perspective is from one who hasn't read through the series in over a decade, but these are my memories of it. I am rereading the whole series now, so maybe my feelings will change.

[@toddhall5137]

#1 when Jordan repeats himself it’s a progression and where the current focus toward becomes. #2 Jordan was an old man whom brought out the 1800’s / 1900’s dating where a smile or slight of eye were the foundation of life long relationships occur.

[@warl0ck_st0rm7]

BUT I JUST STARTED...

[@jayallanbennett8483]

It's still well worth your time. Just be prepared there are rough parts. It's worth it for the characterization alone. Jordan is probably the most brilliant at being able to bring characterization to the societies and then bringing nuanced characterization of people within each society. I have never seen anything like it in all my years of reading epic fantasy.

[@ScottT248]

I agree. Do not give up. It is a great series. Yes there are flaws as Daniel has mentioned but it is still great to see the characters growth throughout the series. Believe it or not, it is even better on a reread as there is so many things foreshadowed that you didn't pick up on the first time through. Good luck on your journey and hope you enjoy it.

[@boxbo7926]

ScottT248 yesss there are so many little things sprinkled throughout all the books

[@zanepye711]

I just finished yesterday with the audio books, ( I think about 5 or 6 months) and had no gripes with it) I think it was incredibe.

[@anacastro5283]

I only consider one book of the 3-4, the slog, and you know which one it is. The one where only 12 days go by. The Faile kidnap debacle. that is the one book that got to me, specially because I can't skim. I agree the slog is greatly exaggerated, it's the one book out of 15.

[@michaellee6537]

The only female characters worth reading are Faile and Egwene. I was surprised to find his main editor was his wife, because I would have thought she would have pointed out the writing of almost every female character as an arrogant bully.

[@DPS31762]

I have to admit, I have very mixed views on the series. The short version would be that I love the world-building, but hate the characters. By that I don't mean that the characters aren't described well, it's just that I find almost all of them unlikeable, even the one's we're clearly meant to like. Very unlikeable, in most cases. Beyond that, one thing I didn't like when I was reading them as they came out was that the pace of releases got so slow. Not counting the prequel, the first 6 books all came out within 5 years of each other. Each new release came out soon enough that prior events were still fresh enough in my memory that I could jump right in. But after that, there was never a book that came out within a year of its predecessor (Towers of Midnight just missed being within a year by a week or so) with some gaps of up to 4 years. I had to go back and re-read the previous released to remember who most of the supporting cast were, and the longer the series got, the more that was a problem. But it wouldn't be a problem for someone picking up the series today. There is also the whole question of how Jordan viewed women and relationships between men and women. People often accuse Jordan (or at least his books) of being misogynistic, though I always thought the opposite was more true. Probably best to leave this alone, beyond noting that it's a topic which many readers will find problematic.

[@teleriferchnyfain]

The characters don't GROW. They are well-conceived & fleshed out, but their journey takes them nowhere, maturity wise.

[@EpitomyofShyness]

I saw Martin at a book signing once and he answered some questions. A guy stated he'd never met a woman like the female characters in Martin's books and Martin stated that the guy must not know women very well. I was only like 13 at the time but it sounded... incredibly smug and condescending to me. And as a woman it made me incredibly uncomfortable since the thing I loathe most in the books is the way he writes women. Take that as you will. It's still a fantastic series, but I get really irritated when people dismiss out of hand the criticisms people have for how Martin wrote women.

[@StarspangledHeart]

I just finished Towers of Midnight for the first time and I can say I've never felt more conflicted about a series. I absolutely hate most of the female characters and the romances. Definitely a weakness of the series for me. It's way too much politicking and too many characters for me to keep track of on a first read through so there's huge sections where I either don't care about the characters/side plot involved or I have no clue who the characters are and so I don't care. Can we just move on with the whole saving the world bit? And I'm so happy that the braid tugging, fiddling with clothing and crossing of arms under breasts is toned way down under Sanderson. But then there's an ending like the one in Towers of Midnight and I feel like my brain exploded with awesomeness. If I didn't have the assurance from fans that the ending is worth it, I probably would have given up a long time ago but I do feel like I will be very happy that I persevered when I finish it.

[@arte0021]

have fun reading AMOL. it was one of the most epic books ive ever read

[@richmondamoah4536]

Tower of Midnight did have one of the best endings. It had me screaming in excitement

[@jonathonwhitington402]

If you enjoyed the ending there, you should try some of Brandon Sanderson's own books too. He's a damn good author in his own right and has some of the best and most exciting books I've read over the past decade or so.

[@StarspangledHeart]

Jonathon Whitington Sanderson is my favorite author! :)

[@Matt-gs5yo]

It took me seven years to get through the series. Skimming through about one book in total is pretty much how I got through the slog so I totally agree with you!

[@annakobuk3618]

This is a series where almost every character either is or become insufferable after some time. It is one of the reasons I stopped reading it around part 6 or 7. Except Mat, because he becomes more interesting with time.

[@alexderksen1213]

wait i was suppose to imagine the sword form names as actions. Ive been failing this whole time.

[@randomchild4223]

I live WOT but my biggest criticism is that way Jordan wrote his women characters. I honestly think he was trying to write strong female characters but the majority are incredibly bossy/hypocritical and they suddenly become obsessed with thier looks the moment they find themselves attracted to a man, even if looking attractive was not something they were concerned about before.

[@Soy309]

My biggest issue with WOT is the gender essentialism implications of the magic system. Men being domineering and women submissive and if a woman isn't submissive their magic fails. Plus a major villain is basically a transgender man.

[@kingjayded4752]

The Slog, Pregnant Elayne, Berlain love triangle, Faile, The Shaido Edit: Spelling

[@paniklewe]

Please mark as spoilers Great now I have un-know this

[@rikgales123]

@@paniklewe believe nothing is spoiled here

[@typhoonzebra]

@@rikgales123 comment was edited so maybe it was

[@edwardcohen1184]

The romance! Oh my God, the romance! 🤦‍♂️🙄 Men can’t understand women. And the women think the men are idiots. And Elayne stays away from RAND FOR FIVE BOOKS AFTER THE SHADOW RISING. And we are supposed to believe she loves him?

[@davetheblade]

I agree about skimming the slog, I did this on my first read through, many many years ago.

[@Moshbearpig]

I hated WoT on my first attempted readthrough (listen-through I only do audiobooks) but I recently started all over again and I am loving it. I use VLC media player with the speed up set to 1.75x faster. Listening to audiobooks at a much faster pace helps me tremendously because it's more interesting to my brain.

[@dedf15]

Loved the little armored skeptic homage there

[@Parmandur]

For me, what made the slog hard was the years of waiting between books in the early Aughts. Waiting two years to get Crossroads of Twilight...woof. Re-reading, not so bad.

[@mikeb8441]

8:00 Don't you mean "not in your wheel of time house"

[@joshuakinnear4202]

I have the complete series. I started reading many many years ago but finished up the whole series from book one again over the past 12 months by listening to it as an audio book. It was a great way to be involved in the story as driving or working. Hell, even making dinner. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone who is having a hard time getting through it or has little time to sit down and read for hundreds of hours at a time as I do.

[@sebberg3362]

I find my problems with the series have changed as I have aged. I was 10 when I started reading, I'm in the middle of my third reading, just finished fires of heaven. This is where it starts to slog for me. A lot of things happen, but the pace seems to shift. The last few chapters are a whirlwind, so maybe that could have been spread out a bit. Different aspects resonate with me as an adult, maybe more of the morally ambiguous situations, rather than the black or white scenarios that worked for me as a teen. Some of my fav characters I now find bland, and I am drawn to some of the characters I barely noticed before. So maybe some of the "flaws" with the series are just things that didn't work for someone at some time, but if they worked for another reader, can they be called flaws? To me, Brandon Sanderson did an excellent job, some characters seemed a bit off, but I doubt anyone could have done it better. My biggest peeve with the series is how much time is spent on characters that I just don't care about, it feels like I get 100 pages of the 100th most important character... I would have preferred it center around maybe six or seven characters, with just short interludes into others, where needed to develop some certain situation.

[@samuelsmith5027]

The eloquent sword form descriptions are based on Chinese martial arts where description in an artistic ways help add to the beauty and grace hidden within the movement. Eg 'Parting the Silk', 'Brushing the Horses Mane' etc. I love that Jordan took inspiration from this but took it into his own fantasy world to give it his own spin.

[@ShannonTan76]

I actually loved Robert Jordan's style of describing combat. It is actually similar to what the best selling Chinese Wuxia novelists had been doing for a long time.

[@robbybevard8034]

The slog was also a lot worse *when the books were coming out* and there was a two year gap between them. It's not so bad on reread.

[@barbeeska]

True!

[@paalandreashaddal4320]

I dropped out during the slog. It's as you say, it got repetitive and I stopped. Then I read Terry Goodkind and stopped reading fantasy altogether till I came across Song of Fire and Ice. Now I'm slowly warming up to fantasy again.