DAPs are overpriced for how they perform (battery life/software/user experience) | Pros & Cons

DAPs generally have very poor battery life, with the exception of Sony ones, a mediocre UI/software/user experience (sluggish, unresponsive) and they barely sound better than a phone, if any better at all. The Android ones are all running on older versions of Android, not the latest of Android 14.
In terms of value you can get an LG phone that is cheaper than a DAP but has superior UI/software/user experience and battery life. My Samsung Note 9 does a pretty good job for music playback but is lacking in power/volume. I've ordered an LG V60 for test/comparison as I was curious. I might get the Fiio M23/iBasso DX260/DX320/Sony NW-WM1AM2 (Japanese uncapped) because I am curious as to whether they sound any better/noticeably better. I once tried a modded Hiby RS6 (£1400) and there was hardly any/barely detectable difference between it and my Hiby R5 Gen2.
In the coming weeks I'll be selling the Hiby R6 Pro II and the Hiby R5 Gen2

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

Hiby M300 is only $200. Smart phones are way too huge for my DAP needs. I don't want internet or a big screen and I already have a flip phone to use as a phone.

[@Veedthetg]

I use my Hiby M300 everyday. I love it. No way am I dumping big bucks on anything that costs more.

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

@@Veedthetg Me too. To me, it's just a replacement for an ipod with way more memory, so I don't have to decide which 1/10th of my library to put on it. I had Hiby R3 II and sold it. It might be a good entry level high def player, but many convenience problems, especially the Hiby OS. But, I don't do lossless. I've tests oand can't hear any difference vs 320cbr mp3 files.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I had and sold the M300. It is good value, you're right, but it is still inferior to a phone in terms of battery life, etc. Mine ceased working with Usb Audio Player Pro too. It has system wide upsampling, which I also don't want. Get what you're saying though, which is why I have the Sony as a small portable DAP.

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

@@PerputuallyCensored Well, yeah, it's going to have less battery life and using the small screen for some things is harder. Small and daily use convenience as a music player only are its 2 primary features IMV. Works fine with Pocketcast and Poweramp. Better than my old ipod OS. All that audiophile stuff lost on me. I don't own any sound reproduction on which you can hear it. I did tests years ago when I had a nice component stereo and I still couldn't hear any difference between 256cbr mp3 and anything higher quality. My experience dabbling in being an audiophile long ago was that it's a treadmill of consumerism and perpetual dissatisfaction. Did not enhance enjoyment music itself for me. Quite the opposite.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

Completely agree on that last part.

[@asotomayor]

After several mid-tier DAPs with mediocre battery life, I ended up using my LG V60 the most 😅 I got it because of the 3.5mm jack, sounds great and the battery runs many circles around any serious DAP. It’s unwieldy but so is a serious DAP, but in terms of battery life it’s not even a contest. Need more power and/or a balanced connection? Get a decent dongle dac/amp and you’re set!

[@wahid-lg1kk]

Exactly correct. This m300 is a great transport, plug your dongles in, and also, it sounds great by itself on easier to drive IEMs, for sitting in coffee shops or at the beach.. I have totally gone over to the dongle side, the Dongleverse is good.

[@barkingspider2007]

I just ordered the LG V60 brand new in box $209 (Ebay)

[@wahid-lg1kk]

@@barkingspider2007 That's a good deal.. If you like ess dacs.. Hint.. Minimum 75 ohm headphones to get all 4 dacs running, or find the manual setting inside to turn them always on

[@barkingspider2007]

@@wahid-lg1kk I have Philips Fidelio Headphones X2HR 30 ohm (I will manually turn on the 4 dacs) Thanks for the tip! 😎👍

[@lonels9166]

My note 9 never failed me when it cones to music playback,the 3.5mm on this thing is pretty decent and can even be used to power some less demanding high end headphones

[@AliAkbar-oh5dy]

Still rocking my lgv20 with android 8 with 1tb sd card and still running buttery smooth with poweramp and usb audio player pro with 17k songs stored locally running my good ol mate sennys.

[@Rezzzn0r]

Great video and I agree with your thoughts. Recently I bought Samsung S10e and I am pretty amazed how it sounds in comparison to my Fiio Q15 and other DAPs I recently tried (Hiby R6 III for example).

[@Rezzzn0r]

Edit: now I remember that the only player I really enjoyed was Shanling M8. Unfortunately it became really slow, using Tidal on it was a nightmare so I sold it. I would like to try M9 but it's too expensive. Sound wise M8 was something magnificent, you should definitely try Shanling sound!

[@springersound1844]

Agreed - having very sensitive ears and having tried many different portable players, I can honestly say they all sound similar. The BIG STEP for me was to connect LINE OUT to my Pioneer SA8800 and listen to my HD58X on the lowest volume setting. WOW! such a difference - black background with powerful impact.

[@TheLeftistOwl]

I just got the Hiby R3 II. Doesn't use Android, but it does last an incredible amount of time. During my 12 hour shift, I let it play from 72% and it lasted pretty much the whole time, only dipping to 23% before I charged it up the last hour.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I don't regard 15 hours, the R3 II didn't even manage that for my testing, as good battery life. That is pretty poor, especially for a non Android device. If you're happy with it then that is all that matters. Different strokes for different folks.

[@hixyhicks]

I use my note 9 uap into a fiio q11, and it sounds awesome .

[@PetetheSweety]

Thanks for the video! I still have the FiiO M10 but I've put an eye on the M23, because of the seperate power USB for use at home. I'm happy overall with the M10, especially because it was the only one with 2 SD card slots. I had one SD card for music only, the other SD card for audiobooks. The M23 is supposed to get Android 12 soon'ish. If you get the M23 please make a video about your degoogle'ing of the and your experience with the player.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I'll not be degoogle'ing the M23, if I get it I'll be putting USB Audio Player Pro on it. Fiio Music is pretty good but it doesn't allow you to add an album as a favourite, which is something I want. Unfortunately you can't run UAPP without google spyware.

[@PetetheSweety]

@@PerputuallyCensored Like you've showed in your FiiO music App video, it shows all the songs of an album in the fav. List. For now I just favourite the first song of an album and switch to the play album view after. I hope FiiO will change this in future revisions.

[@beepover]

I have a note 9 and a One Plus Nord 30. I also have 3 R3 Pro, M6 Pro, and 3 phinstec s7 and a few other daps. What I find is Both cell phons sound fine plugged in and are convient for android play in the car but but it's hard to beat a balanced connection for pure sound. I have well over a dozen chifi IEMS so I have decent experience.

[@mokisan]

You should try the moondrop phone

[@residentzero]

It might be a security hazard.

[@davida7229]

The title says it all! I was looking into the Hiby RS2 but what i was expecting to see was an obvious bigger battery life more than anything compared to its clearly previous models like the R3 and below. Its got relatively the same dimensions as them so its super portable. It's a chunky brick but fits on the palm of your hand. Battery life? Literally the exact same as the Hiby R3... The double SD card slots is a nice addition but c'mon, i dont know how they overlooked the battery life part. Oh and its price is $400+.

[@charlescdt6509]

It would be interesting to see how an LG V60 compares.

[@Tkarma77]

It depends on your headphone .. cheaper headphones and easily powered IEMs will rarely sound different with phone or dap etc but full sized headphones will hear differences with a higher grade dap.. as will more expensive harder to drive iems.. so if just using easy to drive iems prob not worth it..

[@monsterrun]

i had a fiio m7 for quite some time and it did offered somewhat a different to my motorolla phone at the time.. but honestly i don't think 44khz 16 bit will make much of a difference. most of the music i listen to on my dap is 24 bits / 88,2 khz. ( i use a fiio M11 now, old model) background subtilty and soundstage is more clean and does not lose focus. phone chips have a tendency to lose precision with higher res files, like missing instrument reproduction. (sound cards wise " 40 ms of buffer, 2500 ms length and 128 "voices" or samples in one instance.) this is an exemple of lower quality decoding. the amp on phones and dap's are very similar, but the dac are nowhere near the same.

[@LorenzoFrausto]

Why not use the power saving option?

[@uttammanohar7701]

What is the app you are using on note 9/shown in the video for listening music ?

[@PerputuallyCensored]

USB Audio Player Pro

[@howardroark3670]

I just tried my new Shanling M0 Pro. It replaced my iPod Shuffle 4th Gen. All I can say is WOW! It makes my IEM's sound waaaay better. HUGE difference! I can't imagine what something "better" would even sound like. I'm relatively new to Hi-Fi stuff. Like I said I've been using an iPod Shuffle and was totally content. I had no idea what I was missing. I can't see myself upgrading because there is nothing better that I've heard of that's around the size of an iPod Shuffle. Anyway thumbs up for this video. Very interesting topic.

[@privacyhelp]

ipod is just average. People like it because of its small size, but its output is no better than a smartphone.

[@michaelscully2975]

Issue I have with phone audio is that I have a pixel 8 and it's absolute dogsh!t for wired audio. Hates all the dongles I've tried with it and none of the workarounds I've tried seem to help. Only recently upgraded so I need something for the next two years. I'd also say that the power output on some of the more recent mid range DAPs (the M23 that you mention and the Shanling M5 Ultra) means that the options for over ears is better than almost all the dongles out there. Horses for courses obviously and always good to hear other opinions.

[@pinoylanggaming9449]

another amazing honest review thanks bro! I am also in the market for a new DAP. I cannot wait for your review for that LG V60 and Fiio M23. I am still using my iPhone 10 max (bought it brand new back in 2018 - 72 % battery life now) as streaming Quboz and Apple Music using Fosi Audio DS1 (no 3rd party apps) with full charge I get about 10-12 hrs. all streaming. Thanks again for your HONEST review.

[@laurentwiedemann283]

Here's an honest review of my M23. Got it 3 days ago. I don't have the play pause issue, weird. BUT - Turning it on for the 1st time : impossible to choose language. The screen won't respond, but I could click on the "OK" button though. I didn't because Chinese was selected. 15 mins later, I could select another language. WTF - Volume touch panel went crazy on its own, first time I tested it. My finger was 5 mm away and it would go up and down. Fixed after 1.0.1. - Volume down BUTTON works.... SOMETIMES. Only if I push it hard. - After installing an app, the icon wouldn't show up on the main screen. Only after 10 mins or so, it appears by miracle. Until then, I had to launch it through Play Store. - So I turned it off to charge it efficiently. While plugging it in, it went on. So I shut the M23 down, AGAIN, and AGAIN, it went on, and kept turning on as long as the cable was plugged. Never seen before on any device, because usually the goal of turning it off, is to turn it off. - After 3 hours of listening through "normal" basic jack 3.5 with a Soundlink mini (don't judge me, that's all I had at that moment haha), no EQ, no Hi-fi amplification, no compression, not any fancy parameter activated, all SIMPLE AND BASIC on Tidal + Wifi, went from 100% to 65% battery, and the M23 was HOT. Not burning, but hot. How so ??? - And the best : I activated "pure music" mode. Got the error "com.fiio.android stops working". Since then, I simply can't change the mode any more. But wait, there's more : the bottom Android touch buttons "main menu" and "task management" don't work AT ALL ANYMORE. Restart won't help. Nothing. So there it is, just so you know what you're buying guys :) Sorry I didn't have time to judge its sound quality, because it just feels like an unfinished pain in the butt.

[@MrBlackJava]

Will it have 4,4 balanced headjack?

[@Lead_Foot]

DAPs don't sell enough volume for them to order a higher end SoC from qualcomm. I use my Rog phone 7 as a dap but after a poor customer service experience I may switch to an xperia 1 vi when it releases.

[@shadowside8433]

Was that The Unbelievable Truth there? Great band!

[@PerputuallyCensored]

Yes, good spot!

[@wahid-lg1kk]

I agree with this videos conclusions.

[@delan7687]

Hahahaha I got the exact same DAP as yours (R6 Pro II & Sony A306 JP Ver.), and I agree with you, the battery life is atrocious thanks to the combination of power hungry AKM 4499EX and Class A Amp inside. The reason that I still sticks with it is because of the smooth, neutral warm-ish sound which is perfect to tone down my IEM collection which mostly has aggresive tuning, the UI/UX (Hiby's DAP got the best UI/UX IMO) and the beautiful, curvaceous design. The Sony A306 is the exact opposite, it's warm, bassy, only have one SE port, small enough to put in shirt pocket, has long battery life, and laggy UI which in turn makes the user experience sucks. But what I like about it is that perfectly complements my R6 Pro II. I might upgrade to Fiio M23 soon too just because it has desktop mode, despite already owning Magni/Modi stacks which is good enough even though it only has single-ended port.

[@GoufinAround_]

Honestly, the most I'd ever spend on a dap is about 180 or 200 dollars on one of the hiby daps that are just for listening to music. I don't need an almost phone for a dap otherwise I'd just buy an old phone

[@thecon_quererarbitraryname6286]

Luckily the my daily driver phone (redmi note 8 pro) still has a headphone jack and a micro sd slot. And you know what ? The output of the headphone jack sounds really good actually. If you use high quality headphones with it it's a really nice experience. The downside of course being a fat dangly cable that's very unpractical at times...

[@ROCKSTAR3291]

Get a premium dongle DAC to use with your phone, it's small and sounds just as good as a $1000 DAP. You will have to spend a lot more on DAPs to get any meaningful upgrade in sound quality over a high quality dongle. Your phone also runs a lot faster and smoother, and get regular software update, and it's far more easier to replace the battery when you need to !

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I don't want a dongle.

[@motivationmore7025]

dude, seriously, what are you talking about? about the RS6 pro: the play time using a 3.5mm is nearly 8h, it is ONLY 5 hours if you use class A with a 4.4mm BAL. That is pretty good. What do you expect? If you are obsessed with battery power, then you have to move up to over 1000$ devices! I am not a big Hiby fan, but got the R6 III and this brick although looking ugly is pretty strong, good sound and the battery is not bad at all!

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I am talking about my direct experience owning the Hiby R6 Pro II, which trumps anything you have to say on it regarding battery life.

[@Leo-yn5fx]

What do you ultimately recommend? My iphone 13 pro max doesnt last enough for longggg listening sessions

[@PerputuallyCensored]

For most people I would recommend the Hiby M300 or the Sony A306. Hiby is cheaper with zero noise floor and more power but the Sony has better battery life. 30+ hours vs the 20 on the Hiby.

[@Leo-yn5fx]

@@PerputuallyCensored damn all i need is 8 hours really.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

@@Leo-yn5fx In one sitting. If you do that frequently then you’ll have to charge the battery more frequently on a device with less battery life, which shortens its lifespan. That call is yours to make. Personally I always opt for the longer battery life device for longevity.

[@Leo-yn5fx]

@@PerputuallyCensoredRealistically its about 3 hours listening unless i fall asleep with it playing

[@raksh9]

A Fiio X3 II is tiny, sounds fantastic, and can be loaded with at least 512gb microsdxc. It gives far more control over lower volume levels compared with a smartphone. Battery life is about 9-10 hours. I wish Fiio had continued this line.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

You can still get Hiby and Shanling equivalents.

[@nabilchaouli3489]

I recommend shanling m3 ultra, it's portable, battery life is great and the sound is awesome. I use it every day and I charge it once every 3 days, the sound is on the warm side but the punchy bass and the crispy treble makes it really smooth and it gets along with a variety of IEMS and it powers my hifiman sundara just fine. the one MAJOR con is in the shanling music app, it doesn't have gapless playback and the songs always start half a second late and it's unacceptable !!! So I use power amp music app on Android to play music and it has gapless playback and a good EQ and more, so if you decide to get it Poweramp is a must

[@PerputuallyCensored]

People seem to like Shanling.

[@benjaminjwilson6694]

I think I may just go with the new sony phone when it gets announced on the 17th. I agree that daps are too pricey now.

[@andrewhendrick3347]

I agree. I just started using my new (unopened retail box new) LG V60 phone for hires listening. Much better experience than the very poor interface experience on my HiBy R3 II. Only $200 for the LG plus it's replacing my pixel 6 pro which has a cracked touchscreen ($260 repair quote). Selling the HiBy.

[@BavarianM]

R3ii is great No issues with mine and sounds great trough the 4.4mm output

[@dawiddabrowski3279]

I have fiio btr 7, it is small whit great performance

[@motivationmore7025]

the Fiio m23 has a 10 h battery runtime, but running ON SINGLE ENDED! so you are comparing apples to oranges!

[@Gadgetibles]

Best daps for me are ibasso , astell & kern and shangling and sony ..but they are usually expensive

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I very nearly got the DX320

[@fredbloggs1472]

I reckon that I fell for the hype when I bought the Sony A306. I will admit that compared to an iPod classic, it has more tech. The iPods were much more expensive. But For casual roaming use, a flash modded iPod has a quicker UI, and a more powerful analog output compared to sub 1,000$ US DAPs. My A306 is only useful to me as a transport, and needs a dongle headphone amp for outdoors use...defeats the point. In general, I don't think DAPs are a good value, certainly if one has an old iPod classic or mini laying around.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

Apple would sell a boatload of iPods if they revived them. As long as they could properly handle lossless files I would definitely get one. The modded older ones seem to have a few issues so I wouldn’t get one.

[@MarxasThomas]

​@@PerputuallyCensored I was looking at a modded iPod classic and decided not to bite, I heard mixed problems with them.

[@robertschneider8808]

What are those problems you heard of with flash modded iPods? As far as I know they are actually quite reliable as soon as you get them going.

[@BavarianM]

iPod classic sounds like utter crap compared to a modern DAC No point in using an obsolete and limited device

[@robertschneider8808]

@@BavarianM Absolute BS especially 5th gen iPods are regarded for their good sound. They won't be good with high impedance, hard to drive Headphones but for easy to drive headphones they are quite amazing.

[@LWLW44]

I sold the dx320 found it a bit boring I prefer the hiby r6 pro ii

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I’m convinced that I’d be underwhelmed and unimpressed with the sound if I got one.

[@LWLW44]

@@PerputuallyCensored I would demo the fiio before you purchase fiio is also a bit boring in the sound department

[@cthis4786]

If you want best bang for the buck in terms of dap, get those DIY ones that come with better specs than the big name ones.

[@veryannoyingname]

Any pointers as to which one you are talking about please

[@ubacow7109]

I mean ur driving IEMs.... They dont need power. At most your probably drawing like 30mw.... You get a DAP for the power.....

[@Cirillion]

In my experience there is a significant improvement in Sound with pricier DAPs. Also in regard to dongles. The RS6 is maybe not the best DAP, but technically better then Hiby R6 III, the Chord Mojo 2 or Fiio Q15 (or dongles). I understand your points, but I think, it’s important for others to know, that on the one hand the quality of the IEM and it’s synergy will be critical and on the other hand the definition of „better“ or „significant better“ sound. I mean a 7hz Zero2 (or let‘s say something around 200 bucks) can be for someone the pinnacle and after that there is for them „no difference“.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I disagree. The Hiby R6 was £1400, probably more the modded version I was listening to, and there was barely any difference between that and the £500 R5 Gen 2. So that's nearly 3x more with virtually no improvement. As for the synergy point, I'm not a believer in that. I think it is largely a gimmick/marketing ploy to get "audiophiles" to chase something that doesn't exist, perfection. The barrier of entry regarding prices and allegedly hearing "significant improvement" has one purpose, to get people to spend more money on more expensive products. People will say you must spend over X to achieve Y. You've done this in insisting that one must get a "pricier dap" to hear differences/improvements. It also gets done with IEMs, such as you can't get "holographic imaging" for under £2000 or insert arbitrary extortionate price. Or that you won't hear differences/improvement unless your gear is over X price point. The reason I paid £1149 for some IEMs was to test the assertion and it has been proven to be false. They were good but not really better or an improvement over significantly cheaper gear. It isn't just a case of diminishing returns but a case of more expensive doesn't mean better alot of the time in audio, probably more often than not. A lot of audio stuff is overpriced but people pay it so it is what it is.

[@Cirillion]

@@PerputuallyCensored You have a very interesting view on that and you should be lucky for not hearing to much difference. In my tests I discovered clearly differences between (for example) 10 dac/amps and one pair of IEMs (or headphones/loudspeakers). Not only that they sound different because of synergy (some pairings are better, some worse), but usually I could hear better quality, refinement or technical performance with higher price (but there is no particular price point for various sound phenomena). That doesn’t mean that it sounds „better“ in regard of tuning or personal preference. I also think, that a lot of things are stupidly overpriced and like or prefer a lot of cheaper equipment. But „technically better“…hell yeah. How much better and is it worth it…these are the other questions, which need subjective or objective definitions. And yes, there are always enough exceptions. 😊

[@PerputuallyCensored]

So you're confident you could pass a blind A/B? I'm yet to see anyone who makes these claims prove them@@Cirillion

[@Cirillion]

In the matter of fact I did blind A/B tests, also with „non-audiophiles“ respectively people who didn’t know any prices. And there was more often a correlation in regard of pricier=better. Of course not always. (Jay and Golden Sound did some videos about this topic.) But what does it mean, that someone passed blind tests adequately? Is that really the last solution or proof? I don’t think so at all, because these tests have their own problems and limitations . It’s great, if you subjectively don’t have that perception. But saying (more or less objectively) that there is no synergy (what would always result in equal sound no matter the source) or that more often pricier items are not better, if at all, is clearly not the opinion of most people, reviewers etc. or the result of most tests.

[@PerputuallyCensored]

Oh yes, 2 guys on KZbin who advocate spending thousands on audio gear made content to support their position. What are the odds... Must also be a coincidence that neither has ever done a properly controlled blind A/B that supports their claims about various pieces of equipment. I hear you, so you're not confident but that doesn't matter as the tests have "problems and limitations". "But saying (more or less objectively) that there is no synergy (what would always result in equal sound no matter the source) or that more often pricier items are not better, if at all, is clearly not the opinion of most people, reviewers etc. or the result of most tests." I never said nor implied that, only you did via your comment. An appeal to authority won't help your claims either. Another assertion that you've made, "most people...". My position is this, any difference there is between certain equipment/pairings is typically miniscule, barely detectable and those who assert there are clear audible differences ought to provide evidence for this assertion. Ultimately the "synergy" point is based on unique preferences and unique physiology so can't be argued. If you believe in it great. I don't. It is as simple as this, if you're telling me X is the case then you should be able to objectively demonstrate that X is the case I think. I see "audiophiles" make claim after claim after claim with zero receipts.

[@axelfoley1768]

Have you sold it yet?

[@PerputuallyCensored]

If you are talking about the Hiby R6 Pro 2 that hasn't been placed for sale yet.

[@axelfoley1768]

@@PerputuallyCensored when are you ready to sell?

[@PerputuallyCensored]

After I have received a Fiio M23. Could be weeks yet as the item is still showing as pre order. Keep an eye on my EBay: www.ebay.co.uk/usr/lure-1286

[@axelfoley1768]

@@PerputuallyCensored scam. What country are you in. Explain to me why it's available in my country already (the M23) and I'm not in America

[@PerputuallyCensored]

No UK retailer has it. I've checked. It isn't a "scam", it is just not released wideley amongst UK retailers yet.@@axelfoley1768

[@kamysmith79]

Can u review Tempotec V6

[@PerputuallyCensored]

I'll not be buying that. They run on Hiby OS and I don't like Hiby OS.

[@sxyisky]

I think v6 run android iirc ​@@PerputuallyCensored

[@PerputuallyCensored]

You can have Hiby OS on Android... It has a Hiby OS skin on it identical to the Hiby R5 Gen 2. Both devices run Android 8 and the other specs are pretty much the same. The biggest difference is that the Hiby gives you 30 hours + in battery life. The Tempotec V6 will give you less than 15. The newer V3 runs exclusively on Hiby OS.

[@Joniyah444]

Very very much. You get cheap Chinese garbage that doesn’t last past 1 year. It’s harder and harder to find these days

[@SileDevil]

they truly are, there are so many cheap good sounding dognles nowadays that you cna pair with your phone that it makes daps redundant

[@cynthiaj.simmons870]

Great video!!! 🤗❤️🤗❤️🤗❤️ I live in the us if you do $150.00 that's us dollars I would definitely buy it from you as a late Mother's Day gift to myself. I can send you my mailing address to buy it from you too.