Dark and Darker Has An Identity Crisis

Dark and Darker just banned teaming. DOWSEY discusses why this moves the game away from the dungeon crawler we all fell in love with
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[@saeko2212]

L update

[@electrium3556]

I really miss when games were basically "As long as it's not cheating or exploiting, anything goes".

[@zacharyjackson1829]

define "exploiting" and "cheating". This isnt even the first game to make this kind of decision. Im on the fence because people literally queue up for Goblin Caves so they can learn the game and overcoming a 1v2 completely makes it redundant. at that point just make goblin caves permantly set to the hard map with higher mob density and make it duos or trios. The devs just need to pick a lane and stick to it. I do however also dont like the rule change because what if im playing rogue and stalking someone until they get into a fight and i third party and kill the other person after they finish off the guy i was stalking? did i just technically team?

[@lunasagaming5801]

@@zacharyjackson1829 "exploiting" is taking advantage of an in-game bug, and "cheating" is using 3rd party software to gain an unfair advantage.

[@electrium3556]

@@zacharyjackson1829 Yeah the latter part is why I hate rules like this, because they very quickly turn into "playground rules" where it can be enforced however the devs see fit. I'd say that "cheating" would be what most people would be aimbotting, esp, etc , and "exploiting" I would even say only really should include the worst exploits, such as using parts of the game to get sensitive player information, crash servers, etc. Otherwise, I think if it's in the game, you should be allowed to do it. Such as the super jumping out of the map back in Halo 2 to get into weird spots, getting underneath the map in some games, reload canceling, etc. If the developers don't want something to happen, then it's their responsibility to remove it from the game.

[@SloppySushi69]

@@zacharyjackson1829 I agree on making goblin a bigger map and making it duos because people are afraid to play solo it's just sad

[@yamalortiz5152]

@@zacharyjackson1829 That clearly define what teaming was and secretly following a team was not one of them.

[@BucketKingu]

God I just...REALLY want the circle gone, like, in general. It feels so obnoxious fighting with the circle closing in. Not adrenaline pumping, just tedious. Fights feel more like: "I need to get this over with so the zone doesn't kill me" more than anyhting else.

[@Zellaaaaaaaaaaa]

would be harder to stomp timmies so that's not a good idea imo

[@chickenbob562]

zone isnt as deadly like in other games but i agree its making you rush sometimes in different rooms compared to like tarkov just have a general timer for collapse and be where ever you want until then would make even more sense with fixed portals now

[@sw4989]

Chinese based gold farmers, not Japanese, not Taiwanese, not nothing but China-Specific region gamers - Need to simply be banned from all gaming platforms, cheating is something they stream - its normal to them, but people are scared to be called 'racist' This is why free speech is so important, especially when the information is based on 100% proven factual truth.

[@sworn-atracts5044]

The circle is the biggest L of the game you should never spawn in game and have to rush to a zone

[@Jay-cc8xf]

Damn views are low. Wonder when the return to dbd is. It’s inevitable at this point.

[@cromperer]

I actually made some friends through teaming as a solo with another solo in trio lobbies. I've had this problem in other games/servers that enforce this kind of rule and it never ends well. What if there is a 1v1v1 and 2 people decide to prioritize the one? What if there is a lobby stomper with full rubysilver gear and everyone decides to focus him? It's too vague of a rule at the moment and it encompasses too many variables, if they're more specific about what is unacceptable that could help. Also what about the people who don't read patch notes or any updates, what if they just get banned once and the ban explains to them why and they happen to read it, that just leaves them with 1 more chance.

[@ghoul479]

This honestly screams of a snap decision made by a dev that has no experience with how online player bases will act, you cant develop a game assuming players will play the way you want them to you have to assume players will push the boundaries as much as possible

[@bigfungus4203]

RMTer gonna get a new account but the casual people not gonna rebuy if they get banned

[@chopcheesekim]

dowsey can you please give dbd 1 more chance to try chucky even if you never play the game again after i really always loved your dbd content you were my favorite content creator for this and i would to hear your perspective of this chapter at least1 more time

[@CybenX_yt]

streamers *need* to stop uploading unscripted unfocused rants and framing them like theyre video essays. just label it as a stream highlight or make a real video essay, man, come on

[@CybenX_yt]

god, half the video is rambling about tarkov and responding to chat. you're saying *nothing*, man

[@Stelos-]

@@CybenX_yt Did you have your volume on, because he said a lot.

[@vtomb8618]

Fact I can run HR Goblins and not be hunted down by 3 or 4 people running in a group sounds wonderful to me now.

[@hairybellsjr5713]

they did NOT remove player interaction, the fact that you associate teaming with player interaction. They are not the same. EDIT: They also require undeniable video evidence, talk about whining, youre doing the exact thing youre complaining about just you have more influence bc you have a platform.

[@Grandleon]

It may not remove player interactions, but it creates a massive chilling effect. Even agreeing not to kill each other, one of the most common interactions in this game, can lead to unintentional teaming.

[@sunnyysss]

Honestly really scary. Like I love to team and be friendly but don't gang up on people. I usually play bard and legit open blue portals and lead people to them so they can have them. Is that bannable now?

[@inabearsuit2425]

By their own post yes

[@Herokiller21]

“if you are caught grouping with another team to kill other players inside the dungeon, you will be banned” they are pretty clear about what’s bannable just read the announcement

[@canopyjunkie]

I was hoping this game would get better, seems i'll be hoping for a while longer. Drop the teaming rules and get rid of the circle, IMO this game is absolute rubbish for new players as you're forced to get curb stomped or team to take down lobby stompers that are unavoidable due to current circle/extract mechanics.

[@devBMan2023]

To all those who aren’t aware, sdf released a updated response

[@Wellorep]

You would think that the same gamer IDs all queuing up in the same games over and over would be easily identifiable. Even getting just 6 in the same lobby twice in a few games would be sus. It would be cool also if they added something like a PVE only mode that just builds up like tokens where you could get into pve token after x amount of dungeons. Since you have to still do something for it, then perhaps the people who want to just dungeon crawl at least get a few care free runs every so often.

[@Herokiller21]

I feel like if you allow teaming in a game like this it will make teaming up and forming alliances more important than gear or skill.

[@happyaccidentmaker]

I think this naturally balances out, because once teaming becomes normal, the next meta is to betray people for their gear. This will create distrust and change the meta back to every man for himself. It will probably be a cycle.

[@Cjolby]

This is like point for point how we've been feeling, we're going to take a break from the game for a week or so. We're excited to see the new questing system that's rumored to be coming with patch #2

[@AlphaMelGibson]

You just have to look at oceania and asian servers. It is not playable anymore there, period. I notice for myself that it keeps increasing in EU Golbin caves, too. It is harsh and scary, but we have to see what they really do, so far nobody got banned. I am friendly all the time with people, when they wanna fight 2v1 I refuse, cause it was allways cheating to me, so i dont understand this level of outrage, maybe IM should have a clear exception for soloplayers on crypts and ruins. The core issue is RMT though, and this isnt the way to solve it.

[@L0wSkiller]

They need Replays in this game. It would be so easy to figure out if the silent team of 9 is intentionally grouping for nefarious purposes, or if the 2 groups of timmies came to a gentlemans agreement because they are all broke and bad at the game, and just need a W. Yeah it kinda sucks if you have artifact rarity items and get targeted, but at the same time, you have artifacts, if this were real life I'm sure opposing groups could see the benefit of working together to hunt you. And if you are competent enough to have artifact rarity items, i think you are competent enough to wipe the lobby if you don't get sandwiched by multiple teams.

[@Soapromancer]

This, and a team to analyze and actually confirm if this is the case or not

[@Rwnds7967]

"I'm not necessarily right about this." No, no, you ARE necessarily right about this. They need to stop catering to Whiners. They did it with the rogue nerfs, they did it with the ranger nerfs (if you think ranger is OP, you're one of the whiners) and that was all fine, but like you said, people are getting banned now for something that the game was designed to allow. So that's just a "thanks for your 30-50 bucks, see you never." from Ironmace then is it? Just Dumb.

[@pixiri21]

Unfortunately I think the biggest issue here is the devs don't really know what they want from the game and aren't willing to commit in any direction. You can see this with their backtracking on changes constantly. Hopefully they find what they want the game to be and finally develop towards that.

[@djandrewification]

Banhammer on their limited player base. Yikes. If this was on steam they'd be raked through the coals on negative reviews. They need a receptive community manager like OSRS has. The devs seem out of touch

[@Soapromancer]

Here's the thing. This is one of those situations where you can't make everybody happy and the devs are likely doing what the loudest want bevause they are the vocal majority.

[@BigDogTex]

my funnest match was when all the solos teamed up and we got out with hella treasure

[@JarrOdd]

And they already reverted the changes back to how they were before the announcement.... all of this controversy for nothing. These devs are caught in a spin cycle and completely lost

[@Its_Soki]

yeah this is not good, i dont like teaming in general but theres always the odd occasion where it makes sense like oh there two dudes already mobbing around together you are with me now, or even on ruins ive seen multiple people lose their duo partner and then we finish the round out together. i play a lot of caves mostly and again i dont like to gang up on people but i havent even heard anyone talk or anything since this announcement. feels bad.

[@MaKr404]

Yo Dowsey, thats me at the end of the video... Any tips on what i could have done in that situation? I find it almost impossible to do anything against warlocks countering me mid troll fight...

[@dowsey]

just gotta hard push man. you're at at disadvantage in the fight but your two choices are attempt to get the troll onto the warlock and then unlock a door and bail or hard push immediately and fight

[@MaKr404]

@@dowsey yeah alright i guess i tried too late and couldnt catch up to you anymore bc of the debuff... Anyways ty for the tips!

[@CaptainCastle]

Holy shit does anyone else think Dowsey looks like a way different guy without glasses? Thought maybe his evil twin took over the channel

[@JustCopeYaLib]

Cope :) this was a long time coming. Yall are soft get good. U can still be friendly just not have an unfair advantage. I have hated teaming since I started playing. While trying to learn the game I had to deal with this shit. I’m so happy.

[@AlphaMelGibson]

People saying "I cant team with and help new players anymore now" reminds me of the time I got insta 2x judged by 2 clerics, one was ungeared the other all purple godrolls.

[@Stelos-]

Get shafted man, teaming is back xD

[@nealtibbs585]

I always just go my separate way when i run across a non hostile player. Makes it a fun experiance

[@joshuamiller2743]

People forget theres other interactions, OTHER than actual teaming. Cant tell you how much I see in the discord that people complain that there's no interactions for voip anymore. But teaming is only one interaction of many. No surprise it's not brought up here 🤡💀

[@zedfox7880]

Dark and darker would be perfect if you could have a seperate offline/pve only account because it would let people learn the game and incentivises more people to purchase

[@Soapromancer]

I agree, but they'd have to do something like limited item transfer or none at all to prevent people from just grinding the best gear offline.

[@zedfox7880]

@@Soapromancer that's what I'm saying, keep it totally separate, let the tryhards do online PVP and let people that want a dungeon crawler have their own thing

[@diamondchargedgaming9399]

Came to see how the channel was doing after you left DBD. Woooo boy. Channel dead af.

[@char1363]

Its pretty sad to see tbh kinda wished he would still upload DBD but stream dark and darker

[@neonboxdragon3782]

I dont think any of you understand the pain of oce servers the amount of chinese five stack farmers i have come across during highroller matches is actually uncanny

[@futsk01]

Having 'free will' is nice, but you have to consider what it leads to in practice. The game's quickly becoming unfun for 90% of the players, including those who are teaming.

[@Stelos-]

You are wrong,

[@ZeraLord]

I get where you are coming from Dowsey, and I have been watching since I enjoyed your Dbd videos, but the core issue with the game is that people like you (skilled, lot of time to kill A+ gear) should not be in the same que as casuals who maybe play 10 hours a week, low nothing gear. IM I think wanted HR to be that split for skill for unskilled, and HR has right now a huge teaming issue. People won't play HR now unless they are conspiring with other people. I would ask how would you solve it? Because it is unacceptable. When the made the first announcement against teaming several patches ago, there were streamers literally working together to leave each other alone in Crypts and kill anyone else to leaderboard. That type of play needs to be nipped before it spreads. Its like OSRS and Rev caves all over again. 100% agree with your circle take. Too many games, I feel forced into other players when I am trying to avoid the lobsters.

[@usemysoundss3]

Look at the massive difference in views when you played dbd. Bad move by you tbh should of milked it longer to gain as many fans to then move on

[@Stelos-]

Who cares what you think man, this is HIS channel, not yours. As long as he is doing what he likes who cares what you or anyone else thinks.

[@grimsgraveyard3598]

Game needs so much work still. Need to have a ranking system so the sweats can't just come into a match with casual players. I join a match and some douchebag comes in in a full rare set and stomps me and everyone else in the damn game. I even hit him several times and hes just healing through it all until hes closed the gap and I'm doomed. It needs an easy mode where you get to keep some of your gear like you could pick a set amount of items to make safe they'll come with you when you die. You could even make it make sense to the setting. Maybe not an easy mode like this but still one that's basically for new players to learn the maps and game if your ranking is too high you can't join it. They need to finish the skill tree already its been long enough. There needs to be more creatures also not just reskinned tougher goblins or something. In regards to keeping items have a merchant enchant your gear for a price clearly fairly high prices. So they return to your stash if you died and didn't extract which makes sense with this games lore. You think people wouldn't enchant gear to return so their offspring or fellow party members could make use of it. Also considering you apparently return from the dead each time you don't extract the whole enchantment to return gear makes absolutely logical sense.

[@bobthorn7879]

I mean,...It hasn't been an all the time thing for me, depends on situation and if I feel like going that route.. Choices, choices! Always seen it as part of the game..

[@Backstabking]

90% teaming it's about make easy kill and loot, and maybe after "survive"

[@kostadinbodurov]

Why do you call yourself rank 1 Warlock when you only kill troll... kind-a self centered. Have been watching some of your streams and noticed that you have some bad energy and have been mean to people in your chat.. not prospective approach for an entertainer ... just a tip take it or leave it.

[@smaccsi]

what ever happened to Dowsey

[@char1363]

​@@smaccsiloosing his editor most likely turned him sour i also noticed he looks vmreally skinny so he is most likely goinf through a lot if stress

[@nil0ww598]

They changed it right? From my understanding they are only targetting the groups of cheaters

[@bj_cat103]

I totally agree with them on this one, teaming, be it through discord or voip, causes unfair 1vsx fights in a supposedly solo dungeon. And yes, it is possible to win a 1vsx, but it doesn't make it any more fair regardless of the outcome of the fight

[@djandrewification]

People would still team without VOIP or Discord. They shouldnt police how people play the game. Thats an easy way to kill off your player base

[@bj_cat103]

@@djandrewification game won't die just because timmy and tommy can't team up to kill solo players in an unfair fight

[@dowsey]

Teaming via discord and other forms of meta-gaming has always been banable. It’s not the same thing as making genuine connections in game, please don’t straw-man this bro…

[@TheTrueAchilles]

Game isn't fair to start with, big one being gear. Perfect and most common example a geared player in normal goblin caves. Which I think is fine to happen but let's not pretend that them being there is fair to players not geared. Devs wanting to limit organic experiences in game to less and in some cases awkward experiences like having to wait your turn to fight someone. If the Devs actually start banning people for this I'll be done with the game. Don't want to have to worry about if I'm playing the game right. Also why even use voip now after this just to trash talk lol, maybe a funny moment?

[@bj_cat103]

@@dowsey I never said it was the same, I said both aren't good. If you want to have a talk with another player/team or not attack each other, so be it, but teaming up on another person makes it unfair, regardless of it being pre-planned or not

[@Ajbajnificent]

I've been interested in this game and have been following it but honestly, as I see how it progresses, I keep losing interest. I want to play a multiplayer dungeon crawler, not a medieval battle royale. I want a dungeon crawling experience with my friends. What dungeon crawler doesn't have parties? Tf? I'm tired of battle royales and I don't want to see circles and shit like this. So far, I'm on the side of the fence that says " don't buy it".

[@wowolema]

Dowsey teaming with the cave troll, what a scumbag >w

[@451ankitkaushik3]

Hardcore survivors series really missing u are a great dbd gamer and editor

[@originalusernameoftheyear6500]

I don't think they'll stick with it. They'll probably revert it in about 2 weeks or less

[@TheLowFrames]

I hope so... Played all day today there want a single funny interaction. Hurt my soul to have the game so quiet

[@originalusernameoftheyear6500]

@@TheLowFrames maybe if enough players abandon for 24-48hrs they'll revert it even quicker

[@TheLowFrames]

@@originalusernameoftheyear6500 you'll never guess what happened lol

[@originalusernameoftheyear6500]

@@TheLowFrames There's still heaps of Chinese bots flooding matches and group killing everyone?

[@TheLowFrames]

@@originalusernameoftheyear6500 well yea but we can now group kill lobsters!

[@veganboytoy3581]

Dowsey looks like he’s slimming down a lil bit, hope he’s doing okay ❤

[@Soapromancer]

Wtf is that pfp my guy

[@FrostlikeReign]

Nah, man.... got to highly disagree with you. You should not be able to team in solo, and I'm surprised there wasn't already rules against that coming into it as late as i did. Just play duos etc if you're just going to do that shit. The option is right there for you.... why team and screw with other players experience with the game? It's so corny. Considering I've literally stopped playing because of this exact issue. I'd think it is a counter to your argument.

[@Stelos-]

Go play a different game then, This is not a solo game and it is not a death match game.

[@FrostlikeReign]

@@Stelos- This absolutely is a solo game, but there are options for multi people. My comment still stands. You should not be grouping in a solo match, and my comment has or says anything about it being a death match. Wtf are you even on about. Learn to read before commenting.

[@joshuamiller2743]

Another streamer/youtuber horrible take that will affect the devs decision making.. good job! When they revert even more people will leave, just like when they reverted level 15 matchmaking. And just like when they reverted gear cap matchmaking.

[@Stelos-]

Goof thing your take is not even glanced at

[@flavinho-]

Is this game releasing on console? Or did it already did?

[@saeko2212]

Has not released and not realizing any time soon

[@itzdrdabber2115]

probably wont come to console until full release if it does come at all which is probably at least a year away

[@mbeh420]

its not really a game for casuals so console is garbage imo

[@Soapromancer]

​@@mbeh420where does this stigma of console players being casuals come from? I play on whichever is cheaper.

[@mbeh420]

@@Soapromancer because it is? 80% of the playerbase is casual people that have a PlayStation in their living room bro.. this game wouldn’t sell on console. And it wouldn’t really work with an controller either I am sure. Watch JayGriffin he did a controller troll video.

[@Soapromancer]

I wonder if this game will be ported to consoles with crossplay. I think this would be great for that.

[@wowolema]

I dont play this game, but ive watched a lot of hours, and the vibes i get from the game is, the players makes their adventure, and DnD gives them the playground with basic rules, being teamed on is not fun, but it`s a chance you take when you enter the game, the ability to barter with people was part of the experiance, if i ever was going to play the game, i was considering going some kind of support and convince people to take me with them, now that is impossible. idk, i might never play the game, but it can be har to decide whats coinsidence and teaming in the heat of the moment, and innocent people are gonna get banned, people are going to use this as a weapon if there is no pushback for false reports. Time will show what this will do to the game, but at the moment it sounds like an L.

[@COOLJERRE]

it all started when leaderborde was added and the game became to competitive

[@JWL123]

META=Most Effective Tactics Available… meta gaming isn’t always cheating

[@dowsey]

Bro that acronym was made up to explain the term after it was coined. Meta is short for metagaming. Meta in Greek meaning beyond / along with. So the tactics beyond / along with the game. So some of that is tactics along with the game, like stuff that is the best currently, the current meta etc. then some of it is the stuff beyond the game, such as queue sniping a friend on discord to use unfair advantages beyond the game. That acronym came way after and honestly is irrelevant.

[@stevenrobinson7607]

I like this update I don’t like being teamed on I get it in normal with some unkitted players but in hr my trio has been teamed by the whole lobby it’s not fun at all ruins hr cause if you keep going in hr you gonna get whole lobby teamed eventually

[@inabearsuit2425]

9500 people is nothing. Its in a decline

[@ToobRust]

Bro forgot about the 7000 other people in lobby

[@sieuzice]

Oh now I get it.... LUL