Darkening Age : The Christian Destruction of the Classical World

In this journey Catherine Nixey takes us into the early Church and to the very heart of the Roman Empire.
From fanatical zealots attacking and destroying temples to harsh laws put in place by theocratic officials we see the origin and destruction of not just the classical world, but classical civilization itself.
In Harran, the locals refused to convert. They were dismembered, their limbs hung along the town’s main street.
In Alexandria, zealots pulled the elderly philosopher-mathematician Hypatia from her chariot and flayed her to death with shards of broken pottery. Not long before, their fellow Christians had invaded the city’s greatest temple, smashing its world-famous statues and destroying all that was left of Alexandria’s Great Library.
Today we refer to Christianity’s conquest of the West as a “triumph.” But this victory entailed an orgy of destruction in which Jesus’s followers attacked and suppressed classical culture, helping to pitch Western civilization into a thousand-year-long decline.
From exploring her work and research to discussing how her work was received we cover a vast array of topics and viewpoints.
Support our guest at these links below!
Get a copy of her book : www.amazon.com/Darkening-Age-Christian-Destruction-Classical/dp/0544800885
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Twitter: CatherineNixey
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About the author : CATHERINE NIXEY is a journalist and a classicist. Her mother was a nun, her father was a monk, and she was brought up Catholic. She studied classics at Cambridge and taught the subject for several years before becoming a journalist on the arts desk at the Times (UK), where she still works. Author of The Darkening Age, which won the Jerwood Award from the Royal Society of Literature, she lives in London with her husband (the journalist and author Tom Whipple) and their two children.
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[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong, or unusual, about a journalist taking a point of view. They’re not judges, who have to be “fair to everybody”. Besides, these events are true, as are the later wars of religion after the Reformation, and writers have taken many viewpoints on those. I hate it when people make blanket statements about how religion is always evil, or always good, religions and peoples use of them are just as complex as any other aspect of humanity.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Loved this and now it’s pinned!

[@ZorroinArkham]

Religion is evil, I hate it when people can look reality in ths face and deny it is there.

[@jacksonfurlong3757]

There's something inherently problematic with a religion that teaches that the material world is doomed to destruction any day now and the only solution is to follow that religion or else they will be destroyed and/or tortured by the god of that religion. It reduces the world into a place where the faithful are to wipe their feet on their way to the afterlife. A place that it is okay toi allow to fall into disrepair, to treat it however they'd like because their god is going to come back and magically solve ALL the world's problems after destroying the place. This is a core concept of Christianity. Not all religions are created equal. Some are just legitimately garbage on the face of it.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@jacksonfurlong3757 You are more describing Gnostic religions than Christianity here, in Christianity the world is reborn and the evil within it is purged.

[@goodaimshield1115]

The events portrayed in the book are not true, lol.

[@harshitrampal7785]

It's fascinating that when Christianity came into this world Every great civilisation destroyed Including mayans, ancient Greeks, romans, vikings Because they all were converted in Christians Pagan temples were destroyed

[@saimbhat6243]

LOL, Christian europeans fought two world wars just to destroy each other. So did egyptians who declared wars on other people just to make them slaves. So did the mayans and aztecs etc. Chinese used to keep on fight for centuries until whole cities were abandoned and depopulated. Fighting is a natural for civilizations. Do you think there was a place were one power didn't try to dominate another power for one reason or another by one method or another? So saying that it was Christianity that made europeans to invade other people then you need to get a history lesson. Fighting and domination was rule not an exception in pre-modern world. You can present a case for different historical states being tolerant to non-state religions by different degrees, but fighting and domination is common for all historic states.

[@gilmsgabriel]

I'm Pretty sure Mayans weren't converted to Christianity

[@mervincrasto6867]

But also made many empires that stood the test of time and against other rivaling kingdoms. The most popular and flourishing being the Byzantine Empire of the East until the conquest by the Ottomans.

[@cowabungga]

@@gilmsgabriel the Aztecs were forced to convert to catholicism tho. That's why so many Mexicans & other Latinos are catholics today.

[@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700]

Good

[@mohankrishna8948]

2 minutes silence for those who are still in denial mode. Calling her biased. Atrocities of Christian missionaries in the name of the "only God", are rampant in India even today. Can totally relate to what she says.

[@pij6277]

But the media owned by those billionaires in the West keeps saying opposite and otherwise.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

The people calling her Biased aren't just Christians but actual academics. The archeological record doesn't support a primarily fear induced conversion that she claims, neither does it support destruction of most temples/shrines while they were in use. Over 90% of the shrines we have discovered in Europe were abandoned not destroyed.

[@Jonas-ej7id]

Hinduism is a vile religion but I do agree with what you're saying. The way Christian missionaries trick the masses is still very much the same today as it was in the mediveal ages.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@Jonas-ej7id da fuck is wrong with Hinduism?

[@wizardwiz9218]

@@ikengaspirit3063 Proof ? State your sources Professor Edith Hall, a professor of Classics at King's College London, described the work as "Engaging and erudite... offer[ing[ both a compelling argument and a wonderful eye for vivid detail" and "a triumph" in an interview with Nixey to promote the book. Professor Tim Whitmarsh of Cambridge University described it as "a finely crafted, invigorating polemic against the resilient popular myth that presents the Christianisation of Rome as the triumph of a kinder, gentler politics. On those terms, it succeeds brilliantly".

[@holgere.]

The actual amazing and demoralising fact is that the early christian hooligans have destroyed a diverse cultural landscape that has until today still not been rebuilt.

[@BasileosHerodou]

The toughest, biggest fattest pill to swallow when doing historical research

[@thenaturalpeoplesbureau]

as a caucasian person who lives amongst christians, the thought of fanatical zealots knocking down my door, destroying my statues of vishnu, is indeed a thought that crosses my mind not unregularly..

[@srebalanandasivam9563]

Where did Vishnu come to you in Europe or America in the classical era?

[@nishantingle1438]

@@srebalanandasivam9563 Just read about pre-christian european gods, they are vedic gods with different names

[@srebalanandasivam9563]

@@nishantingle1438 Again Vishnu and Shiva not mentioned in Vedas anyways

[@Jonas-ej7id]

@@nishantingle1438 No they aren't. Mythologies and deities that aren't related to hinduism exist.

[@smokeyhoodoo]

Was christianity too blond for you?

[@AbbeyRoadkill1]

Love your channel, don't ever stop! Great stuff.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks Whammy! I love your support and people like you make it all worth it!

[@NorthEngine666]

It is ALWAYS abrahamic religions that do this.

[@hamiltonian4698]

#endMonotheism

[@kudjoeadkins-battle2502]

They are both absolutist religions

[@RedPigSpartan]

Oh yeah like as if Polytheistic religions don't do the same thing

[@kudjoeadkins-battle2502]

@@RedPigSpartan they typically don’t. You never had a crusade against another polytheist religion.

[@RedPigSpartan]

@@kudjoeadkins-battle2502 Ah yes, it's only monotheistic religions that did all the killing and Polytheistic religions are innocent little souls

[@brober]

Amazing how quickly the persecuted became the persecutors.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

Well, they had good teachers.

[@solidus1995]

Wonder why they kept monotheists oppressed. Just like the Japanese they knew their strength was in martyrdom so you either blacken that eye or totally avoid.

[@solidus1995]

Btw fuck monotheism

[@justinallen2408]

@@solidus1995 agreed cults were allowed in the roman empire because everyone was allowed different ways of worshipping but the monotheistic religions wanted dominance from the beginning and subverted the entire empire to their will.

[@topologyrob]

Nice story, but the real world is far more complicated than this cartoon

[@holgere.]

I read the book. It was a real eye opener! Compliments Catherine to this courageous new angle on history. I'm working on countering violent extremism and the parallels with today's extremists were daunting.

[@topologyrob]

Only problem is that it's not historical - very unreliable indeed. In the words of Oxford's Averil Cameron, "a travesty".

[@tuele4302]

Indeed. It is an eye-opening take on some of the methods of cultural vandalism of the Christians.

[@SagesseNoir]

We're facing this in the USA nowadays. Books are being banned by LAW in many states of the United States. Bans imposed on schools and public libraries. There have been some book sporadic burnings. And this destructiveness is largely fueled by politics largely saturated with Christian Right.

[@Siegfried5846]

@@SagesseNoir I have no love for the christian right, nor the left. Both of them are antiwhite.

[@kloa4219]

The Christian Right is bad for Christians as well. Nazism banned Christian denominations

[@SagesseNoir]

If we really have lost all but 1% of Latin writings and 2% of Greek writings, I wonder what culture would look TODAY if those writings were not lost. What if at least HALF of classical writings survived? How might that have affected the development of culture and intellectual life? One can only wonder now

[@magouliana32]

Carl Sagan had said that if they were allowed to survive instead of being destroyed today we would be traveling to distant stars with classical Greek named spaceships…

[@SagesseNoir]

@@magouliana32 He may be right. But now we will never know

[@gabrielclark1425]

Most Writings are just clerical records.

[@CroElectroStile]

You know that all the writings we do have were because of the Church scribe tradition? Tom Holland goes over this history in Dominion, also check out How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by historian Thomas E. Woods. Everything you enjoy today in western civilization has it's roots in Church history - be it human rights, hospitals, universities, scientific method or just advanced agriculture. So the Church restored things in Christ and build most of the cities you know of in Europe with making churches, cathedrals to which then people would flocked to as they (monestaries) were centers of learning.

[@Brandazzo22]

This was a good video. I definitely learned some good stuff. I was very surprised of the ancient history documents they destroyed or was lost. Funny thing is when I was child, I asked people at church all sorts of stuff and they would reply "The devil just put there to tempt you." They said a lot of stuff like that. I didn't question it until I got to college and I realize that I was stupid for accepting those answers as true. Ugh its hard to get past religious biased when talking to people about religion

[@justinallen2408]

The reason why some are "lost" is because people took them to hide them from the zealots.

[@smokeyhoodoo]

You can talk about jews genociding Europe and atheists will tell you "the devil put that in your heart to tempt you"

[@SagesseNoir]

You weren't stupid since you were a child when you believed in religious hogwash. Had you continued to believe it even when your college education gave you an opportunity to see through the junk misguided adults indoctrinated you with as a child, well....

[@lumberpilot]

The early Christian fathers recognized the value of classical literature and works of art but they wanted to co-opt it. So there is the famous "forgery" by Pseudo Dionysius written in the third century but was treated as if written by a disciple of Paul. Also, consider all the statues and ornate paints from the early church. They didn't really want to erase the works of antiquity as much as claim it as their own.

[@SagesseNoir]

For those reasons Christians were more tolerant, even appreciative of some pagan works of philosophy and literature than others. Plato had a better chance of escaping Christian disdain than an atomist or materialist philosopher. And even classical writers whom Christian values as useful, were valued only because they were useful rather than for their intrinsic value.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@SagesseNoir well, duh. So called value for intrinsic value isn't really something that I have seen ever as the institutional reason anything is valued. Things are valued for their ability to do stuff in relation to other things.

[@SagesseNoir]

@@ikengaspirit3063 In classical culture there was an understanding of intrinsic values, especially among Greek thinkers. When Aristotle speaks of the "good" he speaks of goods that are purely instrumental, things good only for what we can get by means of them. There are goods valuable partly for their own sake, and partly as a means to something else. And there are goods which are valuable for their own sake only. With the rise of Christian dominance, a classical work of philosophy, art or literature can be valuable only if they can be used to advance the Christian religion. Classical works that do not serve that purpose are disdained, sometimes banned or burned. So, the narrow view that classical works are valued only for their utility diminishes the culture, and diminishes freedom. In her book, Nixey admits that some strands of classical philosophy were preserved in the hands of Christian philosophers, but it's not the same. Something has been lost. For now on philosophical ideas are compelled to agree with pre-ordained doctrines of the Church. But that means that FREE philosophy, free thinking (without which you don't have genuine philosophy) is over. Philosophical and artistic work are no longer seen as having intrinsic value, but is valuable only to the extent the it serves the interests of the Church.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@SagesseNoir You know what, I don't know enough about this topic to argue further so you win.

[@mervincrasto6867]

@@SagesseNoir you are correct. However, the book should have at least mentioned one para or at least few sentences on Boethius for preserving the works of Plato and Aristotle, and writing 'the consolation of philosophy' inspired by Cicero, Seneca, Porphyry, Plotinus, Proclus and even St Augustine. Speaking of St Augustine, the book only depicts St Augustine's statements against pagan worship, but the upheaval and upliftment of classical philosophy and knowledge by making these ideas accommodate the Christian scriptures, doesn't get a mention.

[@Jonas-ej7id]

"Religion of love and tolerance" my ass. I can't fathom what those native populations went through and this not being talked about enough makes me so sad. It'd be so awesome if all of these native religions and cultures were still around. Japan was one of the very few countries that did not get Abrahamised

[@mervincrasto6867]

Would you say the same some years before the portrayed time of the book at the face of the persecution of Christians by the awesome Romans?

[@Jonas-ej7id]

@@mervincrasto6867 The Romans accepted worship of other gods and deities. Heck they even worshipped the gods of the regions that they ruled over. This is in stark contrast with Abrahamic cults that destroyed the native religions of every culture they invaded. Because intolerance towards other religions and ideologies is at the very core of their belief. Christians, jews and muslims are great at playing the victim. They will point towards the persecution but will never talk about the WHY.

[@mervincrasto6867]

@@Jonas-ej7id Cassius Dio sums this up in a speech he gives to Augustus’ friend and counsellor, Gaius Maecenas addressing the emperor: “You should not only worship the divine everywhere and in every way in accordance with our ancestral traditions, but also force all others to honour it. Those who attempt to distort our religion with strange rites you should hate and punish, not only for the sake of the gods … but also because such people, by bringing in new divinities, persuade many folks to adopt foreign practices, which lead to conspiracies, revolts, and factions, which are entirely unsuitable for monarch.” (Dio Cassius, Hist.Rom. 36.1-2)

[@mervincrasto6867]

@@Jonas-ej7id The Romans never worshipped the Gods of the Germans and druids although both the pantheons had a lot of similarities. This list could include Jews who they kept under the their dominance. There are a lot of writings from different Roman historians who mention the rising of different cults and they also mention the absurdities of their practices in contrast to Roman religious traditions. The one by Dio Cassius is just one abstract.

[@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700]

Tolerance has never been part of Christian dogma, tolerance is a necessary evil but nothing else in Catholic and Orthodox traditions. And your beloved Japan will end up becoming Christian by the simple demographic logic and the interest of the Japanese themselves for Christianity (notably on Christian marriage)

[@andybeans5790]

I've just finished David Reich's "Who We Are..." so this is the perfect time to grab "The Darkening Age"

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Always a pleasure to see you with us Andy! I really want to get Reich on the show.

[@KevinArdala01]

Amazing book!!! I'm just hoping as more information comes out he does a follow up book for the rest of the world with higher resolution; in fact, it's probably the best book I've ever read, completely paradigm shifting!

[@charlenegraham1923]

I haven’t read this book but David Reich is not always an unbiased source so make sure to check him with other reliable sources. This historical period has been well-studied and documented so there’s a lot of good information out there.

[@zereimu]

Just make sure you see the reception from other historians on review, the book is riddled with errors, intense bias and exaggeration.

[@andybeans5790]

I'm not sure why people are recommending historians for genetics. Apart from the unabashed political correctness around "Ancient North Indians" I thought it was an interesting journey through his and other work on ancient DNA. When coupled with linguistics it shows a fascinating and clear counterpoint to the various national and regional biases that have plagued history.

[@olinayoung6287]

Another excellent post! Thank you for hosting Catherine Nixey and exploring this difficult topic. I’ve studied & support her perspective but definitely getting her book anyway. Have a good Sunday ☘️🌷🌸!!

[@ianmcdonald3053]

I had never heard of her, such a wonderful and interesting insight, I’ve never looked into this time period spoken of, what a fantastic rabbit hole to go down!

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks for watching Olina! Your comment means the world and it was truly an honor to host her.

[@LaLaLonna]

I love her point of view in telling this story because it's not heard enough in today's world. Christianity won so we have plenty on the view that christianity is the one true and and that's not correct. It's not the only way to be and think and it doesn't mean you're evil or bad if you aren't christian. Criticism helps keep us in check. All power and all holy is a really dangerous thing to give one group for man kind. I appreciate and thank her.

[@justinallen2408]

Apparently there's a lot of people that would rather stick with Christian sources rather than the sources the Vatican hides from us within their vaults.

[@justinallen2408]

I for one would really like to know what's going on in there.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@justinallen2408 Historians are periodically given access to sources from the Vatican, they can request for any source from the Vatican which thy can get from their references and records of book collections.

[@smokeyhoodoo]

@@ikengaspirit3063 The jewish literature kept hidden in those vaults would make mein kampf look like a response

[@ManjitSingh-pg9qz]

Abrahamic monotheism and their civilization worldview creator is distanced from creation, killed off Greek classical civilization world of Plato , Socrates and the deities , only India left holding out admirably against Abrahamic proselytism .Greek Roman pagans & Indians creator and creation are one in the same , no God head above . God force is what we experience in and around us in the present.

[@CroElectroStile]

If you like the pagan India so much, go and live there, Christianity surely made our civilization worse with building cities and stuff, just look at all those Dominicans and Carmelites inventing hospitals and building churches that became vibrant centers for gathering and social connection. Those wretched Monastic communities, with their vast landholdings that were instrumental in advancing agriculture that boosted our populations and preserving knowledge throughout the ages with their nasty scribe tradition. Let's forget how the Church was pivotal in the birth of modern science, invented the university, and laid the groundwork for free-market economics long before Adam Smith - that never happened and oh yeah and the Church didn't humanize the West by emphasizing the sacredness of all human life by using Christ' teachings - the first ones who abolished slavery that was universally practices and still practiced in your beloved pagan nations - it surely had nothing to do with that stuff. Worshiping cows in India is deff better, idk why they flock to nations that have a Christian heritage, tho. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@carnival8789]

I am a Roman Pagan Myself, please help us restore the idgenous religon of Europe! Even if you are an Atheist

[@hamiltonian4698]

i agree. we will end the catholic church and turn the vatican into a temple to the old gods! what glorious day that will be!

[@Metanoia7-J]

😂

[@Pax-Islamica]

Lol, get replaced lil bro 😅

[@CroElectroStile]

no, Christ is King!

[@Teutonicredneck]

"The Darkening Age" is up there with "The Myth of Andalusian Paradise" in it's lack of sources and the fact that actual historians think they're silly.

[@Teutonicredneck]

@Black Wolf You can't prove that.

[@Teutonicredneck]

You can't really prove who was more moral because all of those groups are made up of different people. Pagans and Christians disagreed on many things but also agreed on many more. Can't say christianity is more moral when many pagan faiths held similar values at the time. Books like "The Darkening Age" really cheapen the discussion and only serve to keep harmful myths alive by trying to view the religious tension of the late Roman empire in a vacuum.

[@Teutonicredneck]

I hate the internet

[@painreliever1728]

@Black Wolf Yes.Jesus marrying a prostitute is very moral.

[@ScooBdont]

Both of those books pale in comparison to the unsubstantiated and extraordinary claims of the Bible. People will readily defend it and actually even consider ignoring any scrutiny, skepticism, critical thinking, or rationale that may undermine a belief in those claims as virtuous and are applauded and encouraged. The willful ignorance and hypocrisy is staggering

[@ikengaspirit3063]

She says she doesn't know how/why Christianity could be so adamantly against Paganism but I think it can be gotten from 4 places, The Roman, The Jew, The Personal and The Theological. The Roman. As she explained, the Romans mostly accepted worship of non-roman gods and use of non-Roman cosmologies because those fit pretty nicely into the Roman worldview/religion. When the Jews came around and their religion didn't mesh with the Roman world view, they were harassed for this, but they knew to be keep isolate from others and their religion agreed enough with Rome that it could be let go, but when Christianity arrived, in many important places of theology, it frictioned with Roman belief, so you get the periodic persecutions and disenfranchisement. Roman worldview and Christian worldview while not opposites, certainly didn't mix, so Rome persecuted them and vice versa. Another thing is that most Christians at the end of the day were still Romans, as she said, Rome and Romans solved alot of their problems with violence, just because they had started converting to Christianity didn't mean that this attitude of solving problems with violence just vanished. So now we have Romans with the Christian cosmology not the Roman one. The Christian cosmology is less fluid than the Roman one and still being Romans they still solved all their problems with violence, so their issues of religion whether under Roman or Christian religion were both still solved with violence. Edit:- To update this, Christianity was the only religion the Romans violently persecuted, they did it to Manicheans who they Persecuted to extinction whose similar theology to Christianity and Buddhism and Persian origin made it theologically less compatible with Roman Paganism and reminiscent of their eternal enemies to the East. The Romans also persecuted the Druids to extinction, similar thing as above with political and theological(well, the Roman writers that defamed wrote as if it had this issue as well) misalignment with Rome and its traditional religion. The Theological. As I said, Christian Theology is significantly different from Roman cosmology and as she said, they considered many of those gods demons, false prophets, tempters and the rest. In many of this cases of attacking the temples (but not the people), it would have been seen as rescuing the people. In a religion that valorizes self sacrifice and helping people to such an extent that some early Christians were even debating whether killing should be legal or not, there were few avenues to be violent and releasing that violent energy on statues and the rest was the acceptable violent release. The Jewish. At the end of the day, Christianity is a Jewish religion and what do we see in the Jewish Bible?, The acts of driving out heretics from the religious community, purifying temples and killing false prophets and from the above point, destroying the devils, idols and their allies are well represented in Jewish scripture as good. Like this is basically all you need. Like Christianity doesn't have the same extent of justifications to be violent as Mosaic Judaism, so the natural societal violent actions would be maximized at those few acceptable outflows of violence. And just before Christianity's rise we had seen examples of extreme Jewish zealotry from the Maccabeans to the Jewish Revolts. That energy didn't just vanish when the first Christians were just Jews. The Personal. We need not forget that the Diocletian persecutions were the largest, most consistent and most extensive persecutions Christians had ever faced, tho at this time, as the author said, Christianity had grown too much for this to be expected to be able to have ended (tho, Hindsight is 20/20). Many of these Bishops that would attend with Constantine had been the people most fanatically Christian, willing to take any extreme suffering for the religion. Is it a surprise that having gone through a process that pushed such people to the creme of the crop, they responded with their fanaticism when in power?. Edit. One could also add in a fifth point in The Decline. Like with the Republic, the late Empire saw increased violence which while not as well documented if anything like in the Republic we should expect ideological gangs killing people to be quite common and expected.

[@Bhilithinn]

Great video and interview! I just went and bought her book. Can't wait to read it. Not that I really need more books, but the subject is too interesting to not get it.

[@doubleplusdanny]

I loved her book and would also recommend The Art of Forgetting by Harriet Flower for similar practices by other ancient cultures and The Commissar Vanishes by David King for a contemporary comparison.

[@ericvulgate]

the subject matter is fascinating, but the sound is too muddy for me to follow for long without captioning..

[@dreamdiction]

The presenters over-acting is absurd, he's trying to make himself sound like a horror B-movie.

[@tubamirum007]

Her voice is lovely, but it has taken a few minutes to tune my ear to her accent, which I actually love!

[@Machster10]

I bought the book and anxiously await it. You sold me on it. Great interview!

[@ianmcdonald3053]

I don’t wish to offend because I really love your work but this lady is absolutely wonderful and be far the most interesting interview I’ve watched in years ANYWHERE! Your introduction was set the mood beautifully, absolutely fantastic interview , I’m 15 mins in and I’m already drooling of the thought of another rabbit hole to go down! Love it it! Great surprise for my Easter Weekend!

[@marksimons8861]

I agree. She's a very fluent and persuasive speaker.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Your comment means the world Ian! Thank you for watching and I absolutely adored hosting her. We had a fun and long talk off camera about Gibbon and old historians. Truly a great time.

[@topologyrob]

You'd be better off reading real history by real historians.

[@justinallen2408]

@@topologyrob bro give up you're reading shit that a Christian scholar wrote who is as if not more biased than she is cx. Those "scholars" probably even censored half of what they copied down and burned the rest to be forgotten for all eternity. Keep coping with the lies whilst the rest of the normal people try to find out what really happened during the transition from pagan to Christian.

[@topologyrob]

@@justinallen2408 You're off with the fairies dude, I'm talking about mainstream historians. Why are you so desperate to cling to nonsense by a journalist non-historian that historians reject and project onto others your problems? Copium not working for you? You sound like a fanatic with a massive axe to grind.

[@edwardhamm5535]

This is a warning for our times. Absoulute faith equals abosolute fear and spiritual genocide. Do not apoligize for your insight.

[@romance234]

Wonderful , I just discovered your channel and its very interesting content, really impressed :). Do you have any discussions about the influence of Greek civilisation (incl Plato and Aristotle) on the shaping and emergence of Christianity. I am very interested in learning more about this and it would make a great video. Thanks so much and keep up the great work

[@thinkinaboutpolitics]

What an interesting topic. You're comment section is going to be fun!

[@randasalines6]

This was painful to watch, and also I'm amazed how quickly this destruction went on...and I know that a lot of people love to throw his neighbours over a bonfire ...

[@justbe1451]

I've been waiting for this topic!!! It's about time to wake up! It was difficult to hear some of what she said, the accent plus an echo left me frustrated.

[@saoirsedonnelly2352]

Jesus and Christians don’t seem to be a whole lot alike.

[@getmeabeer803]

thank you...this is very important fact for our people.

[@Zockopa]

Monotheism works better as a manipulative political instrument than polytheism. It offers way more possibilities for supression of individual freedom.

[@Zockopa]

@pablobarroso2063 As a educated person you know there are always exemptions to any rule.... Well,joking aside you are right about the Aztecs. If they were not such totalitarian and hybris riden idiots the spanish would have had a much harder fight effing them up.

[@adi-rv7qv]

I have read Catherine nixey's book and i wanna say that I respect Jesus but what Christian missionaries are doing in Bharat (India) is wrong. They are converting people in the name of education, medical treatment, and in the name of gifts and financial help. They are injecting hate for their own culture and because I have seen all of these in my own neighbourhood it makes me anxious for my country. We respect all the figures of every faith but why these missionaries can't do the same. I even pray to Jesus to please save my country.

[@dewd9327]

The Classical world didn’t end in 476, it continued in the eastern Roman Empire (which was Christian btw) and in 1453 it was reimported back to the west. History is never black and white.

[@SagesseNoir]

Burt in the Eastern empire the academies where Plato and others taught were shut down. Eventually philosophy was practically outlawed, and no one was allowed to question religion or any matter upon which the established church had taken a position. Free thinking was essentially over, and freedom to think and reason was perhaps the greatest gift of classical Greece.

[@dewd9327]

@@SagesseNoir Plato's academy was destroyed in 88 bc during the Roman Sack of Athens. The Great Library and University of Constantinople contained untold amounts of classical works which were copied and shared with the arab world as well. On top of that precious classical artworks were preserved in the city, sculptures by Lysippus, Phidias and other classical artists all existed within the city. Even the Statue of Zeus from Olympia was held in the Imperial Palace of Constantinople. As for free thinking, the people of the Eastern Roman empire were free to think as they wished and women too were afforded an education (a far cry from the polemics we hear about Christians despising women). Moreover, these were the Romans not some strange state that popped up overnight following the collapse of the western Empire. While western europe fell into barbarous darkness, the east continued, it is no coincidence that the renaissance began with the fall of the eastern Roman Empire. Not to mention the countless advances the medieval romans made in the fields of science and technology (apparently this is a great shock to westerners who believe the Byzantines were backwards due to their Christian faith). Shocking though it may be, the Christian faith as a whole is not to blame for the loss of much of Classical tradition, I would rather blame the Latin Catholics for that because they oversaw the destruction of many ancient works of philosophy and art when they sacked Constantinople in 1204. Much of what people believe to be backwards about Christianity is just bs developed by the Roman Catholic church to rule the uneducated masses of western europe in the middle ages. The Roman Empire in the east never had this issue because of the widely available education and the refusal of the Eastern church to bow to Rome's posturing.

[@SagesseNoir]

@@dewd9327 Wars are enemies of culture, and I've no doubt that much was destroyed in Roman conquests. There was some destruction of the library of Alexandria by Caesar's soldiers. This was the kind of looting that often happens in war, and need not always be a deliberate attempt to blot out culture. But the Academy of Plato recovered, as did much of Athens, and the Academy continued for at least five or six centuries after the Roman conquests. Romans as well as Greeks were studying in the Academy for centuries after Roman sack of Athens. The Academy was finally closed down under the eastern Christian emperor Justinian. It may nonetheless be true, as you seem to infer, that the destruction of classical culture was more thoroughgoing in the western than eastern empire. The barbarian invasions certainly played a big role, and was certainly more destructive of culture than the Roman invasion of Greece. But it may not be unimportant that the Germanic barbarians who conquered the western empire were also Christians either before or not long after they overran the western empire.

[@mervincrasto6867]

@@dewd9327 that's absurd of you to claim that the Catholic Church was only responsible for the destruction of classical works whereas the actual reason would be otherwise. The clerics of the church of the western Roman Empire also had maintained large libraries of Greek, Roman and Christian works. One such library was maintained by St. Augustine which was burned by Germanic raids. Later, during the reign of Charlemagne, the schools opened by him, triggered the Carolingian Renaissance in the 8th century. Such preservation caused later brilliant minds to rise like Thomas Aquinas, Anselm of Canterbury, Albertus magnus and many more.

[@mervincrasto6867]

@@SagesseNoir I think you are undermining the contributions of emperor Julian in reviving paganism even after the Theodosius made Christianity official. I agree that a most works were lost in the Germanic raids and conquests, who were Christians. The difference here was that the Germanics were predominately converted to Arian sect of Christianity, which was the major rival of the mainstream Christianity (earlier Catholicism) that we practice today. Namely the Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals and some other tribes. However, the most fatal blow to the overall condition of the Roman Empire including culture, was the conquests by Huns. The Huns had descended the Alps, into the Italian peninsula and were either ravaging, destroying or extorting a huge amount of gold from the kingdoms and only stopped after they offered them another huge tribute and their queen Honoria.

[@KevinArdala01]

Wow, so pleased you got Catherine Nixey on, I loved her book; it was a great introduction to the topic, I've recommended her book to tonnes of people. Another person you might want to consider asking to joint you on your channel is Edward J. Watts: he deals both with this same period and also the end of the Republic era. These would be great topics to explore more on the channel. 👊😜✌️

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

I had a blast doing this EP and that’s a great idea! I’ll look into that!

[@hebrewenglishbibleread9941]

Excellent book. Thanks for this interview.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Most welcome! Thanks for watching!

[@SagesseNoir]

@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Nixey is a good writer too.

[@moloch3213]

Hello there this was a very interesting content By the way I have just subscribed to your channel today Looking forward to the next video 😈

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks Moloch! We have great things coming and I hope you continue to enjoy what we do!

[@HoundofOdin]

Indigenous religions around the world: exists Christianity: And I took that personally.

[@HoundofOdin]

@Black Wolf That whenever Christianity (or any Monotheistic religion for that matter) encounters another religion, especially a Polytheistic one, it's first course of action is to eradicate it.

[@geoffrobinson]

@@HoundofOdin I'm OK with eradicating paganism.

[@HoundofOdin]

@@geoffrobinson As a practicing Pagan, I am not. But then I would expect no less than advocating for genocide from a Monotheist.

[@geoffrobinson]

@@HoundofOdin I'm not advocating for genocide. But I see nothing wrong with getting rid of paganism.

[@geoffrobinson]

@@HoundofOdin destroying demonic and oppressive systems like paganism is good for the world. These ideologies held the world in darkness for centuries.

[@tinewordsmith126]

Hello good sir, May I please know where did you get your sweater?! 💕💕💕🥺🥺🙏🙏😁😁😁

[@anaconda470]

A very interesting interview. I'm reading a book about Julian the Apostate by Aleksander Krawczuk now. And...i just formally became an apostate myself!

[@puma7171]

As Julian said pagans are no apostates, but Christians are double apostates; actually bad pagans (because they converted) who became bad jews (because they got stuck halfway).

[@antinoofromgreece6560]

I'm following the same way.

[@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700]

Apostatized after reading the story of a guy who got killed because he didn't have the sense to put on armor. Your faith must not have been very great

[@anaconda470]

@@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700 You misunderstood my reasons. There were several philosophical, legal and historical points for leaving the Catholic church. The lecture of the book just accompanied the whole process. I'm interested in ancient history and culture. And it's quite possible (according to some historians) that Julian was murdered by Roman Christian soldier.

[@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700]

@@anaconda470 "The lecture of the book just accompanied the whole process" A book filled with lies and error therefore helped you in the pursuit of your errors, logic. "And it's quite possible (according to some historians) that Julian was murdered by Roman Christian soldier." I would like to have the names of the historians in question because the pagan historian and friend of Julian, Ammianus Marcellinus, who was present at the time of the events, said very clearly that Julien was killed by an unknown Persian soldier. Even if the version of a Christian soldier who kills the apostate emperor is poetic sublime, but it remains poetry and not history.

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

I'm saddened and disgusted by how far some early Christians deviated from the way of Christ to spread his gospel. The whole point was for the word of God to change a person from within, and for them to convert because they wanted to - not for Christians to force a conversion through violence and threats.

[@CCP-Lies]

You wouldn't be christian now

[@ozzy5146]

Truly unfortunate how often guests have 100% KRAPP audio.

[@annaboudreauwoodside4723]

OH MY GOD, the beginning HURT me.. it hurts to imagine these things happening. Sigh.. I FELT HURT - so you did great??

[@TheCrestfallen59]

Great interview

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks candle!

[@DavidWilson-hd6iz]

Roman tolerance of other religions? This probably didn't include a Druid symbol on the coexist bumper stickers of Roman chariots.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

Well, as the author explained you should see it more as Roman tolerance for other gods, metaphysical ideas and ritual practices as the "religions" of that era are radically different from what we call religions today.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

You know what, I changed my mind it is more simply Roman Tolerance for other gods, localized metaphysical ideas and localized rituals. They didn't really much take in other metaphysical ideas or cosmologies, instead they imposed their metaphysics and cosmology over the gods and rituals of the locals. They were also against more organized religious systems like the Druids or Jewish temples, I assume for their ability to organize a resistance to Roman cultural, military and political domination.

[@DavidWilson-hd6iz]

@@ikengaspirit3063 I agree with your assessment; anything that wasn't a threat was "tolerated", more out of expediency I think, then quietly assimilated. Judaism and "Druidism" also had sophisticated legal systems that organised and regulated society, so there would have been a major clash in jurisdiction (who controlled "the system"). I think that's the thing that would have irked the Romans the most, as they liked to run things by there own rules. Personal beliefs were probably a side issue for them, as long as they got their taxes. Sounds a lot like today actually :)

[@andywomack3414]

I wonder if these ancient polytheists didn't consider their gods in some way similar to the way the sports fans today regard their favorite teams. That discussions between those with differing opinions on the subject could, at times, become passionate, even violent.

[@josephang9927]

Gods were projections of the archetypes. Just as God now is projection of the Self archetype according to Jung.

[@robertmagee2106]

You don’t have to look at polytheists... what about Byzantium’s Greens and Blues?

[@smokeyhoodoo]

@@josephang9927 Yahweh is a personification of racism and communal narcissism

[@rursus8354]

Well, if you would like to know where the notion of learned monks and nuns came from, then the Carolingian Renaissance would be the best place to look at. If I remember correctly Charles the Great *forced* the monks and nuns to copy books, such as the Bible.

[@vanshsharma1656]

Both egypt and Greece faced this destruction by abrahmic religions

[@ikengaspirit3063]

And what is your evidence for this bullshit claim?

[@vanshsharma1656]

@@ikengaspirit3063 there culture is totally destroyed there are no egyptian religion followers left now

[@nicolasdemarchenoyr3700]

India will become an Abrahamic country in a few centuries

[@xiuhcoatl4830]

@@ikengaspirit3063 the only bullshit here is abrahamic religion

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@xiuhcoatl4830 Cope.

[@michaeldeaton]

Have this book. Was a great read. Great to see you interview the author. Excited to watch this later when I can. Thanks for the upload.

[@VSP4591]

Indeed a great book. Congratulation to the author.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks for your comment of support Michael, hope you enjoy it!

[@SagesseNoir]

It was a good read. And she's a good writer

[@belialord]

It's a shame her audio is so bad, a cheap Samson Q2U would make all the difference

[@olracsobi8352]

The worshippers of the corpse on the cross may believe they have exterminated us but we do continue to exist and offer sacrifices to the Gods and the First Principles.

[@Metanoia7-J]

@@olracsobi8352 keep coping

[@olracsobi8352]

@@Metanoia7-J I don't know exactly what you mean, but I don't have to cope, thank you very much.

[@skyl4rk]

Have you found any references to closing the garden schools of Epicurus?

[@karenabrams8986]

Exposing the Christian’s ancient fake victim playbook on Easter is perfect. Love it. 😂

[@gianlucarossi5672]

What a hater!

[@ΕλέησονΑμαρτωλόν]

Ignatius of Antioch. Πολύκαρπος of Smyrna. Fake? ...Cyprian of Carthage. Fake?

[@majidbineshgar7156]

Actually it is thanks to the Catholic monastries and their monks that have managed to preserve the classic works of philosophy and literature.

[@thelastmanleftbehind1142]

After the other 99% was burnt by early xtians, yes.

[@michaeldeaton]

You destroy 99.9999% of everything. Then pat yourselves on the backs for saving .001% of whats left. Not buying it.

[@majidbineshgar7156]

@ilesos"Black African "people have contributed nothing to human civilisation at all , but there had been Greco-Roman ( and Phoenicians )colonies across north Africa ,

[@majidbineshgar7156]

@@michaeldeaton "Roman" Catholic has incorporated most of classic roman culture ,which is why the American evangelicals tend to be so hostile to Catholics, one should note that the radical Protestants regard anything beyond" Sola Scriptura " pagan / heretic.

[@user-ez9is7lb9p]

@ilesos do you mean the Mali rebels, because that wasn’t the Europeans who torched the libraries

[@seastorm1979]

If I understand correctly, the early christians fell into different groups themselves and there was a lot of in-fighting. There was Marcionism, the Ebionites, the pneumatomachi etc.

[@danesovic7585]

Sometimes I wonder where we would be, if Christianity never came along and the Roman Empire instead entered the industrial age.

[@herodotus945]

There was zero chances for the Roman empire to start an industrial revolution, they had more than enough cheap slave labor to do their jobs.

[@joellaz9836]

The civilisation potential of Roman Empire was Qing China at best lol

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I’m always grateful to experts who appear on your channel, but perhaps you should require that they use microphones. There are several things this lady says that I can’t understand at all, even with the captions.

[@Laucron]

Oh boy, more Gibbon bootlicking

[@topologyrob]

Yes, the old myth of the Dark Ages. I thought it had gone to bed by now (well it has amongst professional historians).

[@alvinleong173]

The lesson to be learn is never neglect your poor and uneducated masses...

[@painpeace3619]

Christianity as it self destructive in nature

[@Machster10]

What is the pre-christian religion she is talking about starting at 12:00 min? I could not understand her?

[@SagesseNoir]

I really LIKED her book. Yes, it has it's own perspective, an unconventional perspective which some might regard as "bias". But that's would be true of any book. THE DARKENIG AGE offers a different point of view. A point of view that challenges dominant points of view. A part of the story that we generally don't get

[@helenamcginty4920]

Ironically the Renaissance in Italy and later European learning owes a huge debt to Islamic scholars who discovered and translated what ancient Greek and Roman learning into Arabic and Latin and developed the ideas even introducing new mathematics. Eg Algebra. And then somewhere along the line some religious leader started to denigrate learning and Islam lost its place.

[@NathanNavarrete-r5m]

Would love if you can get classical philologist Dr Ammon Hillman on your channel

[@uppjdw]

Great content. Please fix the audio.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Unfortunately I tried but it was one of those issues that couldn’t be helped. Thanks for enjoying the content!

[@yerusalem4832]

If Catherine would have just used earbuds instead it would be better. Idk what people are thinking, they work fine.

[@spitefulwar]

Guys, neither the roman empire nor the greek polis states were humane or enlightened.

[@leonieromanes7265]

They definitely weren't humane, but they did respect knowledge and wisdom.

[@spitefulwar]

@@leonieromanes7265 Interesting point. Can you give a few specific examples? Like what is the deeper wisdom in keeping slaves? Is it a good idea to condem your philosophers to death when they question knowledge or morals?

[@joellaz9836]

That’s a myth. Greeks and Romans didn’t always respect knowledge and wisdom. For instance, Anaxagoras (5th century BCE), claimed that the Sun was "a fiery mass, larger than the Peloponnese” charge of impiety was brought against him, and he was forced to flee Athens. Reportedly , in Protagoras' lost work, On the Gods, he wrote: "Concerning the gods, I have no means of knowing whether they exist or not, nor of what sort they may be, because of the obscurity of the subject, and the brevity of human life." The agnostic position taken by Protagoras aroused anger, causing the Athenians to expel him from the city, and all copies of his book were collected and burned in the marketplace. Diocletian also burnt all the books about chemistry when he took retook Egypt because he was angry that they had rebelled. *James Partington’s 1957 book entitled, A Short History of Chemistry. In this book, Partington explains that little is known today about ancient chemistry because much of what was written down did not survive antiquity. He says that the word “Chemistry” first appeared in a Roman edict in which all books of the Egyptians in Alexandria on the topic of chemeia are ordered to be burnt.* *Diocletian sought out and burned books about this. [It is said] that due to the Egyptians' revolting behavior Diocletian treated them harshly and murderously. After seeking out the books written by the ancient [Egyptians] concerning the alchemy of gold and silver, he burned them so that the Egyptians would no longer have wealth from such a technique, nor would their surfeit of money in the future embolden them against the Romans.* There’s many examples of this. Christians didn’t invent books burnings. Pagans did. In fact during Christians persecutions, the pagans would always have all Christians works and writings burnt.

[@topologyrob]

@@leonieromanes7265 As did of course the early Christians, if you don't cherry pick and distort as Nixey does. Her simplistic reduction is kind of like saying "all Europeans are violent - just look at the mafia!"

[@tuele4302]

By the standards of their time, they were. But by the standards of the Christians of the time, they were pretty tolerant.

[@yesitsron]

Which lost treasures are being held at the Vatican?

[@herodotus945]

There are no lost treasures, just stuff they bought or received as gifts while some was looted by Napoleon.

[@tubamirum007]

The Roman Empire did not end, the power was transferred to the Vatican...

[@puma7171]

Nope, it remained in Constantinople until the Bishop of Rome sent a punitive action to destroy Constantinople (basically). Power in the West was never transferred to the Bishop but to the King of the Goths, who wasted it.

[@carlomagno7092]

@@puma7171 it didn't wasted, the eastern part of the empire attacked the Gothic Kingdom in Italy

[@puma7171]

@@carlomagno7092 yes, but Odoacer declined the attributes of imperial power, which then remained in the Eastern Empire until its demise.

[@puma7171]

@@carlomagno7092 yes, but Odoacer declined the attributes of imperial power, which then remained in the Eastern Empire until its demise.

[@dorzentatu]

Excellent discussion.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thank you!

[@gypsybill]

This was a really good interview

[@kaarlimakela3413]

Talking about real Christian Cancel Culture huh ... Thanks for this one very much.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Interesting parallels. Thanks for watching Kaarli!

[@gianlucarossi5672]

@Joseph Percy This Christian cancel culture is nothing compared what the woke and PC brigade and Big tech, are doing today. Christians were tame compared to what Non-Christians did before them and after them.

[@remingron]

@@gianlucarossi5672 Sure they weren't. Pathological lier

[@ivongrey9047]

@@gianlucarossi5672 Christians and woke are the same thing, different side of the same coin.

[@gianlucarossi5672]

Wokes hate Christianity and want to get rid of it. Stop living in Lala land. In fact, Christianity is the antidote of wokeness. It's obvious you're clueless about authentic Christianity.

[@DIBBY40]

"Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you" . Fanatics of any kind are bad news; especially fanatics with the power of the State. The church should acknowledge its sins.

[@samroconnor]

Pretty much dusting off old Edward Gibbon's overly simplistic view of history then claiming it as a 'new' idea.

[@marvelfannumber1]

I absolutely disagree with her take btw that Gibbon is "what historians should want to be". Gibbon was not scientific in his approach, he very much put his conclusion before his research, even when the narrative he was telling was contradicting his conclusion. This does not mean Gibbon wasn't important, he wrote his works in the 18th Century after all, but he was a product of his time. Modern historians should never try to emulate his style of historiography, his approach was not one any academic should seek to emulate in the modern world.

[@samroconnor]

@@marvelfannumber1 very good observation about Gibbon's contribution. To me, he's the Enlightenment version of Herodotus. Excellent read but too often alters the narrative to fit his premeditated moralistic view of history which leaves a lot of holes as you say. This moralistic style wasn't really broken down in the West until the late 19th century by historians like William Stubbs who started thinking more correctly terms of institutional change. Personally think ancient Chinese historian Sima Qian approached a model of sorts for historical method and he was writing in 100BC!

[@willmosse3684]

So what do you think she is wrong about?

[@samroconnor]

@@willmosse3684 it's not that she's completely wrong but her work recycles Gibbon's broad moralistic-based argument that early Christians destroyed classical civilization and caused a dark age. Most modern historians consider such a Classical vs Dark Age distinction as an overly simplistic view of European history.

[@willmosse3684]

@@samroconnor Fair enough. Though I think there is some value in the “dark ages” moniker, even though mainstream academia turned against the phrase. I think there was possibly an over correction regarding what was originally an overblown concept. As she said, there is no doubt that a lot of intellectual achievement was lost. But still, I take your point.

[@billykotsos4642]

The worst thing about this is that it is 'little known'. Which means that it can happen again.

[@bishalbhattarai5284]

It might not be happening in your part of the world but where Paganism survives in it's various forms, it's a everyday phenomenon.

[@zaniwoob]

Clean up the sound and re-upload it.

[@marktrain9498]

Can’t fix a bad laptop mic and closet echo.

[@JRondeauYUL]

You bring a point that is mis regarded and completely forgotten :> Dark Age is the direct consequence of Extreme christianisme rather then germanisation of the western Roman Empire. 👍 I’m sure the Christ never wanted his religion to turn that way.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

Like are you being serious? Compare any other Empire that truly and utterly fell to barbarians or internal ruin and the historical works preserved does not even begin to compare to what was preserved by the Christian monks after Rome fell. We have basically no Texts from the Sassanids, Axum, Gupta, Zhou or Maurya. Christianity wasn't a factor in the collapse of any of those but they were all highly literate societies. If anything, if Christian monks weren't around, Roman works would have ended up like those. Virtually non existant.

[@joaofranciscobento00]

The Classical World is not only about religion, things like writing, law, engineering, social hierarchy was not destroyed by the Christians, look at the Byzantine Empire, adoption of roman customs by the Franks. If was not for the norman invasions the Pope by the time would maintain the roman aqueduct. Indeed Christianity did "kill" the paganism within the Roman Empire but what was compatible and useful were kept. Interesting is that many of those people who complains about the destructions of those pagan temples, don't really care about churches being turned into bars.

[@AbbeyRoadkill1]

Churches are being turned into bars? Why have I not heard about this trend and how can I help accelerate it?

[@saptakmukherjee7615]

Jesus is a demon. Christianity is a primitive death cult.

[@DIBBY40]

We had a church in our town turned into a Tesco mini-market. It was an old methodist church. I had a real revulsion to seeing it even though Im not Methodist. Sacrilege. I expect that's what the pagans felt too seeing their temples desecrated.

[@SagesseNoir]

Interestingly, it was a Jewish philosopher who brought Nixey's book to my attention.

[@lambroyannoulatos964]

Anyone drawing a parallel with today's happenings like the burning and defacing Christian churches (temples) by the new incursionists of Europe? eg. Notre Dame as the biggest one to-date?

[@SagesseNoir]

ONe wonders why some classical works of philosophy and literature survived and others disappeared. Ms. Nixey notes that Augustine makes use of Cicero, and I recall Augustine's positive allusion to Cicero in the Confessions. And there were other classical writers who were felt to be at least compatible with Christian beliefs, and others not. Was Christian approval or disapproval a significant factor in determining which classical works were more likely to survive and which more likely to disappear?

[@stefanodadamo6809]

Coming from a religious family and "discovering" maybe doesn't make for the most equilibrate point of view about the issue, by reaction... Anyway, in places early Christianity got VERY destructive to Hellenism. It did, interestingly, when it got overtt Imperial sanctions AND support by figures of power in the context of local struggles of power. Egypt with the well-known case of Hypatia is the prime, but not the only example.

[@herodotus945]

Sure, it was destructive to hellenism. That is why New Testament was originally written in Greek, why all those early ecumenical councils like in Nicea and Chalcedon were conducted in greek, why Orthodox monasteries in Meteora have Aristotle and Platon painted next to saints and why theologians like Aquinas used greek philosophical terms and Aristotelianism to explain their beliefs.

[@stefanodadamo6809]

@@herodotus945 destruction of "idols" does not equate with an utter refusal of extant philosophy and high culture. The Byzantines showed great respected to their Hellenistic heritage, for that: especially writers from which they copied the style, trying to "freeze" the natural evolution of the Koiné into Modern Greek. Anyway I was referring mostly to the Egyptian context, where we positively know that the last phase of Christianization was marked by intense social strife and deliberate destruction of previous religious sites. That the ability of understanding hierogliphic script, which had suvived for centuries and centuries among Egyptian traditional priesthood while everyone actually used demotic of even Greek for day-to.day activity, went lost around the year 400 and quite suddenly, is no coincidence.

[@a.ereuthalion183]

I love this channel

[@boxerfencer]

Loved the interview! Thanks for sharing! I bet OTeil and other apologists are burning typing away at their warrior keyboards.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks boxer! Glad you loved it and yes, I bet they are ;)

[@justinallen2408]

You have no idea cx they're everywhere yet none ask what's inside the vaults at the Vatican cx they surely won't be told.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@justinallen2408 I just don't buy the whole ancient knowledge trope that you seem to do. No, the Burning of the Library of Alexandra and of the Library of Bagdad didn't set us back a combined 2000 years.

[@ericmay7722]

Yahweh was a jealous God. It reminds me of the woke fanatics pulling down Confederate monuments .

[@marksimons8861]

Another fascinating interview, Nick. My thoughts are by the time Islam began its expansion in the 7th century there simply weren't any pagans to speak of in the Roman world, and when they advanced towards Iran there they mainly found Jews and Zoroastrians. The only pagans they would have come across were those in the Arabian Peninsula.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks for watching Mark! It’s all extremely interesting.

[@skipinkoreaable]

Fascinating video.

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Thanks Craig!

[@donnysandley6977]

Great video but the echo is terrible 🤯

[@tewekdenahom485]

interesting video topic. This could be a whole series

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Couldn’t agree more!

[@Redbeardblondie]

Love the idea of an “Iconoclasm of Antiquity” series!

[@srebalanandasivam9563]

@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Century by century, Decade to decade, the destruction of the classical world needs to be documented. "Was the destruction pre planned or a sequence of consequences" will be a good premise to start the series with.

[@juniorberns]

Happy Easter

[@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449]

Happy Easter!

[@rickyyacine4818]

@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 pagan heracy holiday

[@k4pdb911]

When monotheism can be seen at its true nature as a Male dominanting perspective. Only then a desire for truth and not doctrine can a more accurate portrait of history can be visualized.

[@KevinArdala01]

...oh, I hope she writes a book about Gibbon's work, his ideas, and how it intersects or contradicts contemporary scholarship etc. 👍

[@erikhoffa966]

Nick! Please the interview becomes completely irrelevant when you don't hear what your guest saying,,,,, gaaaa I regularly tune in on your site cause the revelation of the true story behind the grandeur.

[@jackarnon5483]

When I first saw the title of the program the name that came to mind was Hypatia the brilliant Ancient Greek philosopher and Mathematician who was murdered by a mob of Christian Zealots.

[@herodotus945]

She was murdered because of political reasons since she supported prefect Orestes, himself a Christian. Not to mention that Hypatia actually belonged to a philosophical scho0l that rejected scientific empiricism.

[@thomasdobbs6676]

A group of schismatic monks who were condemned both by the Roman Prefect and by St. Cyril of Alexandria, who also led the mourning of her death, as did her Catholic Philosophy students...

[@ashishpatel350]

great work.

[@karenabrams8986]

Big sad for all the lost work. I love the idea of forgetting about religion and just live your life. That’s what I do. 👍

[@leonieromanes7265]

Me too🙂🕊

[@mikeh8808]

Minute 12:07 what was other religion you mention ?

[@marvelfannumber1]

Very cherrypicked and outdated takes here. By the way, I find it very odd how the author here claims that this supposed destruction of Pagan culture is 'unknown' or 'not told'. I believe these narratives are the mainstream ones in popular culture. For proof of this one only has to look at how her book has gotten quite good responses from unacademic sources, but has been completely torn to shreds by historians for being inaccurate and unscientific (admitting to being unscientific does not make it better by the way). I also think posting this video on April 4th is quite inflammatory and shows some degree of spite or bad faith on the uploader's part.

[@marvelfannumber1]

@Joseph Percy Like I said, just because you admit your work is more of a polemic, does not make it better if it is spreading misinformation. People read books like these and believe them wholesale because they're easy to read and because they're very confident in their assertions. I don't think stuff like this should be shrugged at just because the author admits they're not being scientific.

[@MrWig100]

@Joseph Percy Tim O'Neill ( historyforatheists.com ) has written a survey of both Pagan and Christian texts which were lost in the period of late antiquity, and earlier, and found the amount of Christian writing lost is slightly higher than that of Pagan works which were lost. Unless they were continually recopied texts would disappear, easily since they were hand copied at considerable time and expense, and as Tim says the early Christians were not duty bound to preserve everything for future generations. Nixey seems to think they were.

[@carnival8789]

It is my humble opinion, That Christianity is the reason for SO MANY PROBLEMS in our world today, it destroyed the Religion of our Ancestors, Say what you will about the Roman Empire, but at least they didn't destroy people simply for being a different religion, Oh your a Celt?(Im of Celtic descent) myself Sure your a Barbarian but go ahead and worship your gods and your ancestors

[@earlgibbs7083]

After reading Catherine Nixey's book The Darkening Age, Christianity should be charged with crimes against humankind for the self-serving destruction of ancient art and the libraries of the classical world.