DAVE FILONI RESPONDS TO ANGRY FANS ABOUT SABINE BEING FORCE SENSITIVE - Ahsoka

[@koylar]

the problem people have is saying “i’ve been training jedi for hundreds of years and sabine has the lowest force sensitivity i’ve ever seen “ to IMMEDIATELY force pushing and pulling at a very high level OUT OF NOWHERE. Couldn’t budge a cup at all to force pushing ezra hundreds of feet in the air .

[@knightheaven8992]

Its called bad writing

[@aliwantizu]

Sabine had spent lots of time training with Ahsoka before the series took place, and all that time and training paid off once she was able to "unlock" her latent Force connection after her most recent time spent (re)training with Ahsoka.

[@liamphibia]

​@@knightheaven8992 And Dave has become a shit writer.

[@repticare101]

@@aliwantizufound the shill!

[@Evokai6419]

Eh...@@IndependentShrimp

[@CommanderDude18]

One of the reasons Sabine was my favorite character in Rebels. Is because she was a badass without having to use the force or anything like that. In Ahsoka she lost almost all of her fights trying to be a Jedi. She was way better when she was using her pistols and explosives. What was up with that in Ahsoka? She never used explosives when in Rebels she was using them all the time. I would have been okay if once in awhile she used Ezra's lightsaber if someone got to close or to cut a door open. But seriously making her a Jedi is a terrible idea and it just ruins her character.

[@dereklopez9060]

My biggest problem with Sabine throughout the entire show is that she suffered no consequences for her actions and selfishness when she decided to doom the entire galaxy by letting Thrawn escape to the main galaxy just to say "Hi" to Ezra. And then Ezra, the guy who sacrificed a decade of his life to take Thrawn off the board, never finds out her culpability. Furthermore, she undid his sacrifice and her being stranded in the other galaxy means that she doesn't have to deal with any of the fallout from her decision.

[@adayamongstmartyrs]

thats a good notion. what comes to mind for me is going on the example of using the force like martial arts everyone has their own style to make them develop. and knowing how mandos are heavily proficient with weapons what if sabines ability was amplified because she stopped thinking of the force as a mystical element but just as another weapon in her arsenal? kind of like the show avatar the last airbender when aang was having trouble with earth bending and he had to connect with the ability in his own way? idk that seems kinda cool

[@mar_speedman]

Now that you say it like that, it's the Luke Skywalker treatment. "Oh look, your cool badass is a shell of their former selves." Not even girls are safe from that treatment somehow!

[@LaraA55]

I don't mind a character changing or evolving but you are right, she was bad ass in her Mandalorian ways and people did want to see that side of her in Ahsoka.

[@Ajedman1027]

I’m really glad someone else caught this ur a W

[@noble6339]

I would be okay if Sabine had extremely basic force powers. Allowing everyone to be a Jedi takes away the magic of being one.

[@XEzomoX]

Having the force has nothing to do with being jedi

[@Fulcrum1313]

Agreed.

[@danielsuarez3198]

George Lucas already stated everyone has the potential to use the force. Just some have an easier time to tap into it .

[@matthewmason7792]

Jedi and Sith are religions. Basically cults that have a bias towards one side of the force. Being a Force user does not a Jedi make but I do get where you’re coming from. Force users used to be incredibly rare but it’s kinda like how Saiyans are everywhere now in DBZ despite the fact they’re supposed to be extinct.

[@mattanderson5627]

But all she has had is basic force abilities. So far all we have really seen from her is inklings of a feeling and a force pull and push. It doesn't get any more basic than that. She's not masterfully deflecting blaster bolts back at their shooters, using a mind trick on stormtroopers, peering into the thoughts of another, or projecting herself. She has struggled to get the most basic concepts done and the show really hammered that in. I don't understand why people can't see that. Force push is always one of the most basic force abilities as is force pull. This goes from the films with even someone like Luke struggling to use it, the video games where it's usually the first ability you get, and books where they show training of young Jedi. So you did get what you want. So what's the issue?

[@carmgitto]

Sabine's quick mastering of the force reminds us how rey was given tremendous force ability without asking. Even if Lucas said what he did the fact that anyone can use the force so effectively and easily dilutes the magic of the force in the prequels/OT sad really Disnee has made it so mocking what was prior

[@IAmTheSenate_66]

Oh I agree 👍 I don't make sense at all,Dave Feloni is just following orders from KK

[@carrastealth]

Quick mastering = Two Jedi teachers and over a decade of trial and error?

[@carmgitto]

@@carrastealth yeah couldn't move a cup on the table, fast forward a couple episodes, moving stuff like there's no tomorrow

[@carrastealth]

@@carmgitto Luke - Heard the Force was a thing, and within a few hours is deflecting blaster bolts blindfolded, and within 24 hours destroys the Death Star with a 1 in a million shot despite never seeing space combat or dogfighting before in his life. Yet is one of the sole survivors of an attack against the deadliest weapon of galactic destruction the galaxy ever saw. The Force is The Force. Things click into place when you free your mind and 'trust' in it. Even before The Force pull, when she was trying to deflect blaster bolts with her lightsaber, some were ricocheting off her helmet while Ezra and Ahsoka could do it fine. But once she broke through, all the rest of that training started to click into place. The block she had was mental and emotional. Once that was set, all the stuff she'd learned over the last decade clicked. It's a story that's happened hundreds of thousands of times before and in STAR WARS where someone can do the impossible because "The Force", is the least ridiculous thing. Sabine was like an overall of 69 but with a potential of 99. That's why Ahsoka was scared of what would happen if/when she broke through. It's in the narrative that once she got past that block she'd have a high potential that worried her Jedi master.

[@carmgitto]

@@carrastealth yeah that's true but Luke was Anakin s son so that should be considered i like you rated Sabine a 69 and corrected it with more ratings 😉 👍

[@jameslikesit]

I just think it takes away from her story that she develops force powers. It would be much more interesting (IMO) if she stuck more to her Mandalorian roots and learned to fight force users with other methods, it would make her a more compelling character than just relying on her new force powers. I guess we'll see where her character goes, but it just wasn't implemented well in Ahsoka.

[@XEzomoX]

Did you not watch the show? She was using the force, and it wasn't working so well, then went back to her blasters

[@kardona_3]

@@XEzomoX She barely used them

[@joven_niuton]

I find it more interesting to have a mandalorian pseudo force user training to be a jedi and overcoming the lack of abitiliy with the force with other skills.

[@Splitgamer74]

​@@kardona_3She used them frequently along eith Ezra's lightsaber

[@rubioalvin]

I 💯 agree . She should stick to her roots( a very strong roots btw ) . As was shown in the Rebels episode where she was training to use the dark Saber

[@TheCatWatches]

As Luke says in The Mandalorian, “Talent without Training is nothing.”

[@hagank1111]

I like how the EU did it where people who had an aptitude for the force but were not powerful in it became Naval Officers. It gave them foresight and allowed them to be better Commanders.

[@justinwilliams7068]

Some people speculate that is why Han Solo was such a good pilot. He wasn't pushing things around or mind tricking people. But his ever so little foresight in the force helped him in such events like the Kessel run.

[@fiddlechips8555]

EU was done so dirty.

[@aracelymoran2504]

@@fiddlechips8555 Agreed !!!!!!

[@thebrowneyesofmandalore]

I’ve never had a problem with what George said. It makes sense and works. I believe Dave is warping it into his own personal desire to make Sabine Force Sensitive when she’s not. What George said is simple. The Force is in everything and everyone. It goes back to the Midichlorians. They reside in everyone therefore making everyone attuned to the force in some respect. But that’s where the line begins and where the similarities end. Those that have a higher Midichlorian count (aka “talent”) are those the Jedi will pick out to train. Those without this “talent”, a lower Midichlorian count, are not trained. It’s like what Darth Plaguise did in his novel. He killed people to harvest their Midichlorians and even remarks on individuals with a higher count, how they were able to hold him off longer. If two people train the same and their hardest, where one has the talent and the other doesn’t, the one with the talent will ultimately supersede the one without talent. So in the case of Sabine and other regular, non “talented” people in the galaxy, they can only achieve what their abilities allow them too (their Midichlorians). Those with the “talent”, (a higher Midichlorian count or “force sensitive”) are the ones the Jedi and Sith train. Ultimately Sabine can only achieve what her “talent” allows, which is not much, so what they did in the show was wrong. The best she could achieve with training is perhaps faster reflexes. Absolutely not any telekinetic powers like force push or pull. That is Dave pampering his character to what he wants, yet breaks Star Wars continuity.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

This! This is it.

[@liamphibia]

Man Dave, for a writer you've turned out to be a real sonuvabitch.

[@rmw9420]

one of the few stupidly long comments i've actually read and it was well worth it.

[@thebrowneyesofmandalore]

@@rmw9420 🤣 cheers

[@deadfromhell1235]

I would love to see where you get the information on, what midichlorion count restricts, how it restricts and where the line for force pull and force push is. As you seem an expert in denying this possibility surely you must have a source on where it says it's impossible without your bias getting in the way.

[@Christommyfmx]

Not sure how to feel about it still. I just think Sabine deserved more investment on Dave's part. So tired of just hearing "it happened off screen". Not to mention Hera was completely sidelined as a character. You know what? I'd have preferred Hera to be force sensitive instead

[@captainDJ87]

I dont think Hera was sidelined, she was just busy running around the galaxy reminding everyone she was a General.

[@martymcflurry97]

That’s just as bad If not worse

[@Christommyfmx]

I mean compared to her character in rebels and all she had to do yeah, that's kinda sidelined lol. Also I don't think it would be "better" but at least Kanan and her son are..gifted in the force I guess I'll say now. This just all opens up a bunch of cans of worms. With this new logic (I get that it's not new and came from George but we've never seen it until now) why didn't Kanan try to unlock Sabines "force potential"? But in the end it's Hera who he spent most of his time with. What, was she just like "nah I'm good"? Silly decisions being made imo. Again, just an opinion lol

[@mikorist1804]

In Star Wars Rebels, she feels Kanan's force ghost touching her shoulder and she puts her hand over his ghostly hand. Hera's ability to hear Ahsoka and Anakin's lightsaber duel in the World Between Worlds hints at a deeper connection to the Force.

[@mikorist1804]

I even think that Zeb is force sensitive. There is one episode where he navigates the Ghost to Lira San with a stick.Blindly purely by feel.

[@xanthus_4222]

One kinda iffy thing you could consider is that she was using the dark side in that moment. Using easy emotions for her to call upon like rage and aggression (or even the fear of losing Ezra again when he put his trust in her to push him). Because the dark side is the shortcut, the quickest path to power. That doesn't mean she should have had sith eyes or whatever, but perhaps she was relying on her raw, strong emotions to compensate for the lack of power.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

People still believe Dave will save SW and was Lucas’s apprentice. Well to be honest, George trusted Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy. Look what that got him.

[@mirkecWii]

I dont think you can save star wars, but tbh the prequels were massively hated and Filoni pretty much turned the opinion around on that

[@Needler13]

I still believe that to be true. Dave has all the good and the bad of Lucas

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@Needler13 George was better in the OT because he had a team that challenged him. When that fellowship broke, the results were different. Episodes 1 and 2 show that.

[@rubyrude.infinite]

​@AncestorEmpireGaming Oh god there's that same stupid lie again. People challenged George plenty of times in the prequels. And got overuled plenty of times in the OT, the director is top dog minus producers (typically). You cannot claim that creative control is bad in this circumstance and then claim its a tragedy when studios take it away. It's one or the other. And in the end I'm choosing creative control.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@rubyrude.infinite lies according to who? Screen rant and their gawker knock off websites that sold their dignity so they can share the same propaganda articles from we got this covered? I remember the prequels very fondly and remember that fandom wars during that era. George didn’t have the same team dynamic then as he did during ANH and ESB. There were more yes men and women during the prequel era. The only saving grace at that time was the expanded universe, which cleaned up the messes from episode one and two. (Jar Jar got the worst punishment possible. He got to see his people put down and his planet subjected to planetary servitude) As for creative control: Bob has the final say, he is the Vince McMahon of all Lucasfilm projects.

[@exe16]

IMO the problem isn't how strong was the push, but how soon she was able to do such a push. She wasn't even able to move a cup a few episodes prior. It took Luke 3 years to pull the saber after concentrating for a few seconds, and he's the son of the Chosen One. I can see Sabine doing a push like that... if she is a decendant of Vizla AND she trains for a few years with Ahsoka. Not out of nowhere, in the heat of the moment.

[@Basilisk2077]

She pushed a 180 pound man 200 feet up into the air like it was nothting..

[@varonvan6336]

All this “everybody can have powers” makes Luke feel worthless. Having the force is special. Not some “believe hard enough” type shiii.

[@toddblankenship7164]

I agree but it's having control of the Force not "Having the Force" as you put it.

[@Needler13]

I mean, the OT also said everyone has the force in them Even the earliest EU books had people learning to use the force without being born sensitive.

[@Ally.Cat.252]

Not really. Luke is still very special because he’s one of the most powerful force users ever.

[@Needler13]

​@@Ally.Cat.252aye, even Lucas said everyone had the potential to use the force. But some people are more prone to it than others. Hence being more force sensitive but that doesn't mean you can't learn to use it.

[@RomanPhilosopher]

How does it make him worthless? I don't follow that at all.

[@matthewwilliamson1775]

Honestly , u can’t tell me that she chose to train Sabine over Grogu or even Jacen and expect me to be ok with it. Sure I get his reasoning , she didn’t serve any purpose imo in the show and did it less credit as much as it’s other faults

[@TheGreatestJediOfAllTime]

Jason will be trained. It’s not one or the other. Point irrelevant.

[@lordfoul6259]

And you forget by the time she met Grogu she had already stopped training Sabine and the reason she didn't train him was because back then she still had that fear that anyone she trains would go to the dark side and become the next Darth Vader

[@josephnienstedt9745]

I like to think Force Ghost Anakin was just hanging around helping them out. Like, he saw Sabine about to attempt the force push, and he assisted from behind😆

[@nerderonofficial]

I think it would've made for a more compelling story if they ragged on Sabine for having such absymal Force potential and her trying really hard to be a good Jedi Padawan, but eventually decide that being Force sensitive doesn't define her as a warrior or as a person. She can be just as valuable and as skilled and influential with her own unique skills and abilities. Maybe its just me, I don't think it is, but I feel like that would've been a more inspirational message.

[@LaraA55]

Love this comment....this is what it should have been

[@nerderonofficial]

@@LaraA55Glad you think so :)

[@Hohrd]

I didn’t hate that Sabine was force sensitive but what bothered me was that she wasn’t able to use it until it was convenient to the progression of the story. It would’ve been far better to have had Sabine think she helped Ezra jump to the star destroyer, then turn around and see that it was Ahsoka to actually do that force push. There just wasn’t any struggle for her after she first was able to tap into the force it just seemed to come easy and why would Hoyang say she was pathetic when she could actually use the force quite well when “forced” to 🙃

[@ghostface4404]

Power respons to a need. Not a desire. It's a pretty old concept.

[@kurtmccathron3781]

@@ghostface4404what doesn’t follow is thay she didn’t need it. When training with the dark saber she uses her cord to pull it back to her. She could have done the same thing here. They decided to ignore that as a mandolorian she is a walking arsenal/swiss army knife. She didn’t need the force in that moment. It was contrived.

[@ghostface4404]

@@kurtmccathron3781 well, I'm fine with her learning. I have no issue with it.

[@ghostface4404]

@@kurtmccathron3781 as far as e know. this was Foreshadowed twice in Rebels.

[@enzoamore8971]

I would've had her be able to move her lightsaber a little bit, but not being able to pull it enough to save her in time. Ezra would end up saving her. That would've still been an impressive feat for her.

[@DavidM_10]

From the prequel era onwards, George has made it clear that you have to be Force sensitive to be any sort of capable Jedi, and all of canon has reinforced that rule up until now. Stories like Jedi Fallen Order are based on the concept. Filoni retconned everything because he wanted another one of his OCs to be a powerful girlboss. Trust me: that's the logic. Filoni loves putting his own desires first. He thinks he's inherited ownership of the IP.

[@mar_speedman]

I don't think this was Dave's doing. Sounds like Kathleen to me.

[@gorkamorka999]

Even in the OT it was I'm a Jedi like my father before me" and "The force is strong in my family, my father has it, I have it, you have it." Clearly not something that was random or universal. Also kind of goes against the idea of a 'chosen one' if anyone has the same potential.

[@mar_speedman]

@@gorkamorka999 A- Just because Luke and his family has it, doesn't mean only they have it. Others can have it too, but they inherited it from his father B- They don't all have the same potential. The point is they don't. People who aren't force senitive are on one end of the scale with the least amount of potential (But an amount of potential) and people like Anakin the chosen one on the other end of the scale have the most potential. Potential isn't skill or power. Potential without training is just potential. Potential with training becomes skill and power. That's why Luke and Anakin had the same potential but Anakin was more powerful. That's why Yoda had less potential but was much more powerful. So Sabine could very easily still be a Jedi in theory, but in practice it had to take her a lot more work than she put into it

[@Andalaeknir86]

Or this could be the belief of the jedi st the time plus it would be easier to train someone with higher midichlorian than say less than typical jedi.

[@mar_speedman]

@@Andalaeknir86 That's such a weak argument though. Anything can be retconned by saying 'oh they were just wrong' but that doesn't change it's a bad retcon. Like I could just say "Oh they thought they'd die if they went into the sun, but turns out it's okay" to justify why my character survives just that, but it's still bad justification.

[@Gundam4]

It just Harkens back to syndromes line: when everyone is super, no one is. Sabine did not need the force.

[@roserichards1460]

Okay so I'm gonna purpose a theory. So Ahsoka fears that Sabine might fall to the darkside because the potential is there sure but what if Sabine is already using the dark side? The dark side in its most basic form is emotion and passion these are things Sabine lives her entire by and we know that the dark side is a faster rounte to power. So what if when she actually uses the force to grab the lightsaber and push Ezra she was actually calling on something like her emotional need to protect and save her friend thus she's actually using the dark side to bolster her powers unknowingly during these scenes?

[@HellDuke-]

I have no problem with Sabine using the force, but the problem is how strong she got. Not even necessarily how quickly in general, just that it was nothing all the way to the point we saw. It's one thing if she got the hang of it and can force pull the sabre to her or disrupt opponent movements with a push, but shove Ezra over such a gap seems a bit of a reach.

[@poindexterflex3528]

Her ability to use the Force should never have been the issue for any basic Star Wars fan. The problem is the extent in which she could use it. It should've been a miracle for her to move a pen let alone a massive force push.

[@theonlysaj61]

This is exactly why I did not rejoice alongside the majority of fans when Dave was given his new position. Although we all love the clone wars, the facts are that Dave rewrote canon at his own whim, and has a pattern of violating canon materials. Dave also has gone on to say that it’s OK that there are Inaccuracies across different medias because star wars is in accumulation of stories told by different people, so it’s OK if there are mistakes. Dave is not the answer, he is just like Kathy and the others. We need new people altogether top to bottom. If anyone can train long enough to become fluid in the force, why didn’t the emperor just have giant schools across the galaxy to train up armies of four sensitive troopers? The whole point of midi-chlorians was to set limits on this stuff based on potential. Now that’s gone

[@Gundam4]

The fact that he's going to be working closely alongside Kennedy did not Inspire confidence. It inspired dread,

[@Batmanhunter5959]

The emperor also follows the rule of two if emperor had more than one sith he would have to worry about every one challenging him since the Darkside tendencies want more power to be at the top ...grievous had no sith powers no threat and he switched the rule of two by having anakin kill dooko

[@Batmanhunter5959]

Dave filoni is the savior of star wars ahsoka and Mando so good Dave filoni is the next best thing to george Lucas case and fact

[@BibFortunasBarber]

THIS! Anyone who’s paid any attention to daves interviews would know he’s just as bad as KK.

[@Aikurisu]

Filoni is a hack who somehow managed to convince a lot of folks that he's the best thing to come out of Star Wars when reality shows he simply stole from far more talented authors and STILL managed to screw up their ideas, while hiding behind George with excuses that the latter signed off on. It's time folks stopped giving the guy a pass for unintelligent work.

[@grahamjones3259]

To be fair to Dave it was always hinted that she was throughout Rebels. I think the only issue was that they could’ve stretched Ahsoka out more with another three episodes at least. That would’ve allowed them to put more meat on the bone with her struggles. I did like the arc they created for her, but it could’ve leaned into her trauma more about her family perishing, and played on that anger becoming a block to her connecting with the force. She’s a unique person, because she is a Mandelorian training as a Jedi. That was a great starting point for why she was having so many issues connecting. In the end it was a threat of life, in a galaxy far, far away that allowed the connection to happen, but the journey could’ve been a lot more interesting. I still think she will be the one to ride the Mythosaur, and Dave is setting her up for that, possibly in season two or in the Mandelorian movie.

[@aim4thehay33]

I honestly loved it. Especially Sabine. It's showed her failure. It showed her constantly struggling. But when she "Let go" of the anger. The Force manifested itself so strong in that moment it helped her with the push.

[@toddblankenship7164]

imo devalues the abilities if everyone can have it, basic economics of value

[@aim4thehay33]

@toddblankenship7164 that's like saying that the Force is just strong with a select few from the start. And everyone else is just sol. SABINE spent literal years honing in on her powers. I don't see why she can't be worthy of the Force when other characters similar to her are super op right off the bat.

[@riptide914_5]

I would've been fine with Sabine's force push if she had engaged it WHILE Ezra was leaping. The fact that she waited until AFTER Ezra had crested his jump and started gaining downward momentum makes that push so much more powerful. I feel like a lot of us wouldn't be bothered by this if it was simply performed or shown differently

[@Smokey348]

or you know just have sabine jump and ezra force push her?

[@informationservices]

I wasn't bothered by it at all b/c I don't watch disney star wars, I just watch disney star wars hate online for free

[@namenull7399]

I'm able to play basketball, I'll never be on a professional team. In the same respect, any living creature in the star wars galaxy can use the force, but that doesn't mean they can become a Jedi master (or even a Jedi knight).

[@TotalTholdios]

one of my biggest things is.. if he jumped off the other side of the tower, he would've reached the other side of the hanger just fine by himself.. ezra literally chose the side of the hanger that was moving away from him instead of jumping toward the side coming towards him 🙄

[@toddmattson516]

I think it would have been better to have them do the force push thing but Ezra starts to fall and then Ahsoka runs up and follows up with a second push to get him the rest of the way.

[@MrEffectfilms]

I think what would have maybe been a good compromise would be for her to use the force in a very general sense, sensing and being aware of her environment, feeling the thoughts and emotions of those around her, maybe even being able to telepathically communicate, and of course using force augmentation to increase her strength, speed, agility, awareness, and allow her to properly use a lightsaber. But aside from that she leans more into her Mandalorian side, improving her tech, fighting skills, combat weapons and training, and later on use her new abilities and training in the force to compliment this. That way her training in the force is important, relevant, and still engaging with a good payoff but she never loses sight of the fact that she is a Mandalorian and always will be.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

I agree. If a character is not force sensitive, the force should not manifest visually. I would be fine if Sabine could get small senses here and there

[@kalancosta7650]

“Size matters not” …… which implies that the mass of what you are moving doesn’t really matter “its in your mind” as yoda says

[@kalancosta7650]

And honestly a push and pull are basic abilities

[@Itzkyr0]

@@kalancosta7650I agree with this,telekinetic abilites are basic for a Jedi,it would’ve been different if Sabine used energy manipulation similar like how Ahsoka did to sidious

[@kalancosta7650]

@@Itzkyr0 yeah I don’t think she’ll be able to do that….. I’d imagine a saber wielding mando, that can deflect blaster bolts and do some push, force jumps (if her jet pack gets damaged)

[@Itzkyr0]

@@kalancosta7650 same but that’s what I meant by the example of a different scenario

[@scareez1821]

George also said that Ahsoka should die. What George says doesn't change the fact that it's lame.

[@memlordnord567]

I think it was fine to let her be force sensitive but to be able to force push Ezra as well as she somehow managed to was too far fetched to be believable, not to mention she only managed to pull an object to her and managed to successfully push Ezra on the first try, the nostalgic dynamic of the way Ezra and kanan used to do it is cool but later on when it's actually makes sense to do so since Sabine now seems to be able to have the full arsenal of force powers at her command instantly without having any prior practice or training with the force, and well I can't help but feel like a certain "someone" pulled some strings for that bit

[@krishkrish8213]

Bud, we had Luke skywalker beat an experienced and trained vader, and people said yeah, that's fine. But Luke never did any actual jedi training. All he ever did was some push-ups and sit-ups, that's it like it was some video game cheat code and dude beat vader.

[@wickdaline8668]

Ezra still barely made it. Sabine can't be too powerful.

[@codystephenson3774]

⁠​⁠@@krishkrish8213So Luke had some sort of training with Obiwan…or are we just gonna forget a New Hope That and I believe his training with Yoda was more like a month long. Even at the end of his training Yoda said Luke was not ready to face Vador. Sabine was just able to use the force as the op said when it was convenient for her to do so with nothing shown to the audience that she had some sort of training. Thats where the issue lies.

[@krishkrish8213]

@codystephenson3774 The training Luke had with obi Wan was literally him just blocking a probe droids attack , that's it. In comparison to Anakin or Asoka or any jedi before the empire where every single one of them had proper actual training, learning all of the theory of the jedi, the various lightsaber forms and trained in their preferred form. That's every jedi. If you compare Luke and any jedi from the Republic, each jedi would smack Luke around. When order 66 happened and the vader killed the jedi in the temple, we had to remember that vader was fighting trained jedi masters, knights, and temple guards, etc. Now you are telling me in Return Of The Jedi, Luke, who doesn't even have half of the training that a younglin gets beats vader on the death star. Now we have to take into account that vader has fought Jedi masters and knights who have survived order 66 and have bested them, and you're telling me that Luke, who has no jedi training and the only training he ever did was he did some push ups and sprinted around daigubah and the same luke beats Darth Vader, no chance. Now, if we see Sabin take on a force sensative warrior or dark jedi and stand her ground without any proper training then yeah I'm gonna have a problem with that, her using a force push I'm fine with.

[@codystephenson3774]

@@krishkrish8213 Right, but thats all you saw in the movie. Just because they didn’t film more training doesn’t mean it didn’t happened. So what you are saying is that luke did one probe droid exercise, couple pushups and situps and boom. Good to go. I understand that Luke didn’t get proper training like other Jedi. But your making it seem like these events happened right after one another between episode 4 thru 6. At least we get a sense that more training happened whether that was with Obiwan, Yoda, or what he had learned from them on his own. Compared to Sabine who just did it when it was convenient and the audience had no prior viewing of training. It just happened like anyone could force push like it was nothing. Im not saying Lukes arc was without flaw but I think this occurring with Sabine is even worse.

[@Kai-ow9gi]

Sabine was a good warrior and a excellent scientist, 2 traits she could have used to overcome her obstacles. I feel she would have been better without force powers.

[@mar_speedman]

You can't be an expert on all fields. You're either halfway good at everything, or really good at one (or two) things. For Sabine to be a Jedi, she needs to dedicate her time to being one, completely abandoning her love for explosives and her identity as mandalorian. In other words, if done right, Sabine would have to sacrifice herself to be a Jedi.

[@Kai-ow9gi]

@@mar_speedman which is why I’d her character having no deeper connection to the force beyond what we saw in rebels. She’s cool as a warrior and scientist as it is. Feels like they’re just adding more roles when she had enough if that makes sense.

[@mar_speedman]

@@Kai-ow9gi Yeah, it does. If you think of it in terms of archetypes, Sabine already fulfilled not one but two roles. She didn't need a third.

[@Kai-ow9gi]

@@mar_speedman yes

[@Predatorwarrior18]

I don’t have a problem with non Force users learning and developing Force abilities. It’s that Sabine’s abilities took way too much of a massive leap. The saber summon was one thing but the giant force push? It’s like anyone can become insanely powerful in Star Wars now for the sake of plot convenience.

[@dragondrakage2402]

It's fine to give everyone able to use the force, whats not fine is allowing them to use it with no real struggle. Problem with sabine was she was still struggling with basic telekinesis days b4 the final fight. Yet she was able to magically do all these force powers with ease at the most convenient time

[@Semiq2001]

Personally I didn't have problem with Sabine being force sensitive, especially if we consider her connection to Tarre Vizsla. I still think the biggest problem was that she got force powers too quickly, like from no using force at all to huge force push just a few days later. They were in trouble, needed to get on Thrawn's ship etc. etc. so maybe she got something like "force boost"? Like with regular humans, in certain situations we get adrenaline boost and we can be much stronger than usual.

[@naysunhuang]

between rebels and ashoka though, sabine could have been training with ashoka for years. I don't think she got her powers to quickly. I think once she was finally able to properly connect with the force, it just basically brought everything together and her utilize her training to it's fullest.

[@chrisl.5519]

Maybe reuniting with Ezra helped her tap into the force. She was in a positive mindset upon finding him. Also her and Ahsoka patching things up between them as master and apprentice. That moment of desperation when she was being choked to death opened the window and then once she realized she was able to do it, she had the confidence to know she could do it again.

[@aracelymoran2504]

+ @Semiq2001 That was some hard coping there buddy !!!!

[@Basilisk2077]

She force pushed a 180 pound man 200 feet up into the air like it was nothting..

[@manz7860]

Her old characters jetpack wouldve been awfully useful in that situation......she didn't need force powers. She was already extremely capable.

[@olivermendonca9545]

She was also training in Star Wars Rebels with both Kanan and Ezra. There were times in Rebels where she was able to hear things and sense things that the others could not, so this has been hinted at since Rebels.

[@Unknown.Skymaster]

Wholeheartedly agree Sabine absolutely does know how to use a light saber because of her training with the dark saver but no, she would not be able to literally force carry Ezra. Like if the force manifested itself in other ways, like maybe her reflexes are more heightened than they should be, or maybe even her having the same kind of struggle session that Luke had been trying to summon his light saber. Or she could just use all the Mandalorian text she has. Even with the explanation of the force exist in all loving things. Too many fans, I think I can say this confidently. It just seems like another attempt to justify ray’s absurd level. Even if Sabine was secretly a descendent of the Vizla clan. It doesn’t matter training is everything. And besides, we all knew that that was going downhill, when Sabine literally got stabbed and survived. It would’ve made a little bit more sense if she had gotten a huge scar somewhere on her maybe she lost a limb. But no. Because of how closely this align with the stupid excuses, people have tried to make to justify reys abilities. It’s making a lot of people lose faith and they felony because for many of us they felony was the guy who knew how to do Star Wars, right .

[@Unknown.Skymaster]

Yes, I know this thing is full of AutoCorrect problems. You don’t need to wind it out.

[@RomanPhilosopher]

Her low midichlorine count means she'd have less ability to hear, influence, or affect the force, not that she'd be unable to use the force ever in any meaningful way. She can use the force as much as anyone else, just not as naturally or as easily as others.

[@Unknown.Skymaster]

@@RomanPhilosopher exactly at the very least she could’ve had maybe a little bit better reflexes, but they should’ve kept her as the Mandalorian who could use a light saber, but not use the force. I mean she was already incredible with the gadgets she had.

[@RomanPhilosopher]

@@Unknown.Skymaster disagree. Her low midichlorines makes it harder to communicate with the force but not impossible. I viewed the force push as the equivalent of an adrenaline rush allowing a mother to lift a 1200 lbs metal off of their trapped daughter momentarily. We see things like that throughout nature. It was fight in flight and she was nearly killed and was then able to use pull and push in that moment and right after it. Yoda even said the Suze if an object matters not. Sabine finally fully believed and she had that adrenaline rush.

[@Unknown.Skymaster]

@@RomanPhilosopher gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

[@Skyraider_23]

The best thing we got from the sequels is Harrison Ford saying “That’s not how the force works!” Honestly that quote from George Lucas kind of messes with his own cannon and puts plot holes in a lot of stories within the universe

[@rector0455]

George changed his mind a lot. In TPM the Jedi believe the Sith to be extinct, yet at Qui-Gon's funeral are apparently aware of the Sith Rule of Two. If you know of the Rule of Two, you know the Sith are purposefully being covert and not exposing themselves needlessly.

[@Skyraider_23]

@@rector0455 that’s a really good point

[@rector0455]

@@Skyraider_23 Coincidentally, I just finished the Plagueis book for the first time today, and they do specify in it that the Jedi were aware of the Sith rule of two at the time. That came out in 2011 just before the sale of the IP, so it looks like George identified this plot hole and at least put a bandaid on it long ago.

[@Camuleus]

If anyone can use the force, what’s the point of order 66 and hunting down force sensitives after ?

[@Itzkyr0]

Order 66 was to execute the Jedi of the republic,not all force users are Jedi yet apart of the republic at the time

[@skepticalsmurf]

good point,in the real world there are gifted people & others with rudimentary skills…

[@silverpc4611]

Rogue one. The guy whacking troopers. "I'm one with the force, and the force is with me".

[@manz7860]

Remind me when he used force push. He was letting the force use him. And paid with his life. Hard to stomach I'm part of the same Fandom as some of you

[@eloyevd]

If she was force sensitive how did Kanan not sens this? Sabine had been in the Ghost crew for years and Kanan and Sabine knew eachother in and out. Kanan even did some jedi training with Sabine when she got the darksaber and still did not sense anything.

[@TaraCicora]

There's actually a line where it points to him actually being aware. He says that she is 'blocked'. That being said, I'm not a huge fan of how it was done in this case.

[@eloyevd]

@@TaraCicora yea could be, I always thought it had to do with something mentally. When she had that outburst during training it showed she was struggling with pent up emotions.

[@TaraCicora]

To be clear while all of it makes sense to me, I'm not sure that I totally agree with how the show(s) decided to show her evolution with the force. @@eloyevd

[@eloyevd]

@@TaraCicora yea right with you on that

[@carrastealth]

"Everyone has the Force." - George Lucas I think once that barrier that allows someone to truly start tapping into The Force and bending it to their whim. The floodgates open. Luke went from pulling a Lightsaber to Yoda thinking him capable of lifting a ship and it was Luke's focusing too much on the size is why he failed. It means that when the floodgates open, it can go 0 to 100 with The Force at times. Ezra was flinging people around with little to no Jedi training and nobody's complaining about that so... Sabine also being capable of that would also explain why Ahsoka was afraid of her potential, should those floodgates open.

[@Mr.Cstopmotion]

Being a Jedi requires immense discipline and training. Sabine’s midichlorian count was non-existent in Huyang’s eyes. I believe her character already was pretty good without having enhanced abilities. All I can say to George’s rule is “To each his own.”

[@Andalaeknir86]

Well higher midichlorian means it's easier to tune in and train in the force

[@Fiasco3]

But we suddenly discovered that she really has powerful force connection in her, she was just hiding it lol.. Pretty convenient writing there. Almost Filoni level.

[@Mr.Cstopmotion]

@@Andalaeknir86 exactly my point dummy

[@dougiemonday]

I think the scene in Empire strikes back where Luke struggles to get the light saber. I always looked at it like he was hurt and freezing, cold and distracted, and that’s why he needed to focus not because of a lack of power.

[@MatCaveGaming]

I like that abilities can be learned, but I also agree that Sabine's abilities increased way too fast and too much. Personally, my hope was that we wouldn't see her use the Force at all until the very end of the season in a scene with the cup again. Then right before the camera cuts to black, we see the cup move slightly. Like, I'm talking just a tiny bit, similar to when Captain America moved Mjolnir. Then leave that as a cliffhanger for the next season where we could see her train more.

[@mar_speedman]

Yeah, that was the way to do it. I would've accepted even more than slightly even, as long as it looked like she was struggling. Have her lift the cup, I don't mind. Not force push an adult man 30 ft in the air from 30 further feet away. So not only does Sabine look too strong for the amount of potential she's supposed to have, but that scene with the cup has been made redundant by them not going back to it again

[@lankyboy90]

Or the end scene of X-men 3 where Magneto is supposedly 'cured' but you see the chess piece wobble just a tiny bit before cut to black!

[@mar_speedman]

@@lankyboy90 I can't believe we're using X3 of all movies as a positive reference xD

[@manz7860]

Nah she never needed the force. She was already kind of a Mary sue before and extremely capable

[@lankyboy90]

@@mar_speedmanI did vom in my mouth a little as i was typing it....

[@ichiban308]

If you think about it, Sabine only used the force in a life or death situation. When Ezra was about to be killed she was able to use the force. Once that "i can never use the force" wall was knocked down she was able to use it. Like Neo in the Matrix "she's starting to believe"

[@raziel88]

Given Dave’s history with his work, I’m fairly certain Disney meddled with the Ahsoka script. Sabine’s move was probably forced in the story. Otherwise, idk man…he’d be falling off

[@jemckellar3405]

Absolutely. 'Ahsoka' as a series needed to do three things: 1. Introduce Ahsoka and explain her relationship to Anakin and the old Jedi, 2. Introduce Thrawn and Ezra to general audiences, and 3. Kick off a new plot arc for Star Wars. Sabine-as-padawan could be a good support character for the series, but making her the main protagonist, with her decisions and abilities driving the plot, just weakened the impact of the series. The show needed to make normies excited about Ahsoka, Ezra, and Thrawn, and it just didn't have enough runtime after Sabine's plot arc to do that.

[@herooflight7931]

Agreed

[@Raii_Chu]

My head cannon: [[TL;DR: Planet Peridea's Force connection is more prominent, therefore Sabine could use it stronger than she should have]] Sabine has the knowledge of how to connect to the Force, but emotionally and spiritually she is struggling to connect. She showed zero progress until she made it to Peridea. The planet of Peridea is clearly a prominent location in the second galaxy, some kind of relation to the Mortis gods. I believe that being on Peridea helped (amplify) her connection to the Force making it easier to do a stronger Force push in that moment. Also, keep in mind that Ezra was already at a high velocity that he created with Force jump and being just body weight I think this added on to Sabine's ability to continue that momentum with her Peridea-amplified-Force-connection.

[@jaceyking47]

I could be more willing to accept this if it weren't for the fact that a) _Rebels_ already established Sabine not being able to use the force, and it was kind of cool to see a Jedi training someone to be a warrior without the force and b) it felt way too rushed and forced (no pun intended) in _Ahsoka._ If _Ahsoka_ ended up being a 3-5 season long show, I think Sabine starting to develop powers maybe in the second or third season would work, and becoming more powerful by the last season or last few episodes. After a LOT of training. But most of her backstory with Ahsoka happened off screen, and then we see her only training a couple of times with Ahsoka on screen before she's able to use the force at the end of season 1. Not a good set up or pay off. So even with "George's Approval" as it were, it still doesn't work for me. Disney just isn't good with pay offs. They want to eat their food before it's done cooking, and we all end up with food poisoning.

[@SkittleBombs]

I like the monk from rogue one, he doesn’t “use the force” for powers but he trains and the force is with him

[@Grasher134]

It was fine. I know they are not canon - but Swtor already had all protagonists (even not force guys) use the force somewhat. I feel like Sabine deserved (character-wise) 75% of it. She trained with Kanan and Ezra a bit. Then with Ahsoka for an unspecified amount of time. And then pushed herself hard AF the whole show. But yeah, she should be very limited in her potential.

[@katomamundara8106]

Only clairvoyance and push? Yeah. That's still pretty limited thus far.

[@rector0455]

I don't recall my imp agent or BH ever using the force, I call bullshit.

[@lightborn9071]

"pushed herself hard AF" You'd think a mandalorian (force sensitive as well) would be able to hit more than two targets max. with a blaster throughout a whole episode.

[@Grasher134]

@@rector0455 well.. play a bit further into Kotfe/Kotet expansions

[@adamyounis93]

She was a great mandolorian warrior.. keep her as such

[@timothyhenegar7484]

Now to note about her sensitivity, and Ezra. It is possible that Ezra and her developed a Force Bond with each other in Rebels. By the time it took for the Ahsoka show to come around. That Sabine knew how to fight with a lightsaber, but it took Ahsoka to mentor that connection through her bond with Sabine. Once Sabine encountered Ezra once more, that bond came natural again to connect easier to the Force. That is lore and theoretically plausible.

[@starwarsskran]

Everyone has the force does not equal anyone can use the force. FILONI is twisting the concept. In the archives quote George said “ some people CAN’T because they just don’t have as many midichlorians “.

[@troglodytezero1697]

Agree, and sadly the force has become cheap tricks under Disney Star Wars.

[@kurtmccathron3781]

It’s not just that she force pushed Ezra a ridiculous distance after just using the force but she wasn’t even tired. Using the force to a huge degree is draining. Luke died projecting himself. Yoda lifted the x wing and it clearly took a toll. Sabine pushes Ezra and then just continues to battle with zero fatigue but as always she suffers no downside to her actions.

[@krishkrish8213]

Yoda was old by that point, pre empire yoda was flipping around and taking on dooku and sideous. Not to mention Luke with even proper jedi training. All he ever did was some push-ups, and sit ups was fine as well.

[@grimundoing598]

In Felony’s own show, a 25,000 year old droid said she would suck at being a jedi.

[@rector0455]

The droid who had helped train literally generations of Jedi.

[@Wabiske8]

Sabine was just a very minor gripe in an otherwise great show, from my memory she wasn't teased at being force sensitive in Rebels other than when Kanan said her mind was blocked off to it when he was training her, I only wish if they were going to go this route they should've showed a little more progression towards what she does in the finale, or maybe they could've had a moment where Ahsoka and Sabine push Ezra together. That would've been a much more believable moment and a great master and apprentice moment, but as a said it really doesn't bother me too much with everything else that was done great in the show 😅I gotta give credit where it's due and Dave did Rebels a lot of justice.

[@Maine03]

blud thinks the show was great

[@XxOM3GA75xX]

​@@Maine03blud has an opinion just like you🤯

[@Maine03]

@@XxOM3GA75xX juss cause u eat shit doesnt mean i have to respect it

[@bromothymol]

When people say "George said anyone can use the force, so cope" is kinda silly because George introduced the concept of midi chlorians, and also said "some people can't use the force"

[@Grap3_S0da]

could she have made a leap in ability because she is channeling her anger and fear and actually tapping into the dark side. Also I do want to point out that Luke trained with Obi-wan for like a week whereas sabine trained with Jedi for years. and IMO once she got a taste for it she actually is tapping into the dark side in order to use her abilities.

[@ACE112ACE112]

we didn't get that at all from the show

[@tomhaas7078]

It may be George who said that but it was Filoni's choice to actually make it that way.

[@BalaamsAss]

In Rebels, it wasn't disclosed that Sabine wasn't force sensitive. She was so Mandalorian though, to the point of being completely shut-off from the force.

[@ThatWorks]

I have a lot to say about this. I kind of agree with you but also...she is on a planet and Galaxy with new rules perhaps. The force could be much stronger there. That planet could have channeled something in her. After she does the first force move it made her believe she could do the push. Believing in herself fully is the key to all force abilities isn't it? Also I watched this with my wife who literally was in tears when she pulled the saber to herself. Seeing that moment mean so much to her made me more ok with it.

[@karrdrock1323]

I really wish we would have got some exact numbers on how long Sabine trained with Ahsoka before the show. Yes luke was trained by obi wan but (in George's movies) just on the ride to the death star. On hoth we are see Luke's efforts of him trying to learn on his own. If Sabine had trained for years I could see her using the force. Not throwing guys around and levitating thing but taping into it. I agree the show took it a little too far. But I don't think the concept or her using the force is completely terrible. But they spend no time in the show justifying or explaining why or how she got as far as she did.

[@katomamundara8106]

While we lack enough numbers, it's clear she was taught longer than Luke. Shouldn't have taken more than a day, MAYBE two with Obi-Wan, Sabine was implied at latest to have started at end of RotJ and stopped latest maybe a year later as 4 ABY = ROTJ and the bombing occurred between then and 5 ABY. Considering this was done before Jakku, as that's when the Empire as it was known 'died', that reinforces the year max period. It's pretty clear it wasn't an instant betrayal of Mandalore either. The Empire needed time to get their shit together following the Emperor's death. No matter how you cut it, definitely longer than Luke's one, maybe 2 days best.

[@john90392]

I think it could even be more than that. If she began training with ashoka around the time of RO/ANH 2-4 years could've passed before the Purge & ESB. And a bit more if they temporarily resumed after RoJ. 🤔

[@lightborn9071]

We have seen her IN the show having made no progress at all.

[@katomamundara8106]

@@john90392 We only see her 'join' Ahsoka during the finale. Which occurs post Death Star 2 destruction. But yeah...

[@katomamundara8106]

@@lightborn9071 Because of a mental block. One can have all the skill in the world but fail because of a mental block. Musicians are a great example. Having taken karate I can say that not being in the right mindset can affect your skills too. What ALWAYS stopped her from using her abilities was her mental block.

[@JediGuru556]

If sabine was only able to "barely move" the saber, I would have not mind it as much. Her able to push Ezra onto a star destroyer was a complete joke.

[@Roundsideup]

Why didn’t palps create a force sensitive army??? Bro could have went into hiding and trained a bunch of random ppl

[@cptn_rex3386]

You have such a balanced way you view Star Wars content. That’s something I’ve been struggling with and I really appreciate your perspective and the work you put into it!

[@LocrianDorian]

Doesn't really matter what he says, of course he would try to justify his decision somehow, doesn't make any more sense though.

[@kalancosta7650]

Well he’s correct lol and the fans are incorrect

[@MrDangs]

It’s just silly, why would Sabine ever be able to excel in the force so quickly

[@TheGaboom]

@@kalancosta7650 Technically; The writers are always some form of correct. It can still be piss. It can still be overindulgent. It could still be contradictory writing. Just because they are correct doesn't mean they're right.

[@RYOMENSUKUNA2018]

@@kalancosta7650 Sabine using the force like she’s a natural is contradictory to almost all of the source material. But go off ig.

[@kalancosta7650]

@@RYOMENSUKUNA2018 if you go back and look she used both hands and they were shaking….. it literally took everything she had and Ezra still came up short….. basically that’s was all she could do…. Someone like anakin could prolly do that with one hand and Ezra would have made it all the to the platform ..

[@davidvines3883]

We know George will retcon himself (Han/Greedo shot first). My question is, didn't George retcon the idea that anyone can learn the force and it's like martial art when AFTER that he said everyone has midichlorians but you have to have ENOUGH in order to use the force, meaning everyone has it but not everyone can USE it?

[@jaydulce99]

tbh ever since he gained control of his projects they been hinting of the idea of jedi and mandarins coming full circle and im not mad of the idea Ive grown to admire it animation and movies have always been different the only thing hard to get over was how quick her powers grew in seconds some say its cause of her mandalorian training but the force is different so idk

[@isisbarfuss558]

There are TWO major issues about this Sabine situation that not many people are talking about. My first issue is that most of Sabine's training and relationship with Ahsoka was OFFSCREEN and TOLD to us. That is NOT good storytelling. Ever heard of "show don't tell?" It also makes it very jarring for us fans who've seen Rebels, where Sabine and Ahsoka never interacted. I would have been far more interested to watch and learn justification for where Ahsoka and Sabine where during the OT, their first meeting, their training, their "breakup", backstory for Baylin and Shin, and Ahsoka's first meeting with Luke. What we actually ended up getting with the Ahsoka show should've then been season 2, and would've had WAY more of an impact, since there was actual setup for the characters, so we would've understood their history and tension AND we would've seen Sabine's "offscreen" training, which maybe we would then be more accepting of her using the force. My second issue is that ever since Sabine could use the force, everyone is acting like she's a Jedi. But having the force doesn't automatically make you a Jedi, there's more to it, like how you act. And Sabine doesn't act like a Jedi. For example, she gave into her selfish desires and emotions to save Ezra at the risk of the safety of the galaxy, similar to Anakin's obsession to save Padme. So if anything, Sabine acts almost like a Sith. Overall, it feels like Dave Filoni did NOT execute his story in a great way. It often felt like a rough draft, felt dragged out at times, lacked proper character setup, and told us things instead of showing us. This show definitely shook my trust in him.

[@lightborn9071]

Terrible writing, simple as that. Bad decisions and bad execution.

[@Sangth123]

George said this in a 2013 documentary about RoTJ which he later *retracted* and said that manipulating the Force was NOT something anyone could learn to do.

[@jackbingle9307]

My opinion about the force, is that it is about how deep you are digging. She loves Ezra,and didn't want him to die. So, she dug deep and found a way to push him. A lot of force users have found power in love and despair.

[@AstroNerdBoy]

There was no reason for the Jedi to maintain a highly classified archive of Force sensitive beings for the Jedi to take while they are still toddlers if being a Force sensitive wasn't anything. Heck, why reject Jedi training to those "too old" (Luke getting an exception due to desperate times calling for desperate measures). Even Anakin was considered too old to train as a Jedi. But adult Sabine? Not a Force sensitive, but whatever. She can use the Force with the best of them as soon as the plot demands it.

[@rector0455]

Felony and his fans are too stupid to comprehend how this lights the entire lore on fire.

[@CujoHyer]

George said it in the 1970s, when the lore was still being made. It breaks everything if you can spend a week trying to move a cup, then can be a full fledged Jedi out of no where. It breaks the lore. It breaks the galaxy. It destroys everything and is ACTUALLY just a decision rooted in 'The Force is Female' and women can do everything better than you. It is more terrible Filonism for Star Wars, and ruins the entire f'ing galaxy. If anyone can do what Lady Bean can do, then Luke is a TRUE FAILURE for not having rebuilt the Jedi Order, when he could literally recruit ANYONE to be a student of the Force. It is a terrible decision, a dumb joke, and further PROOF that this dude is a cancer tumor on Star Wars. Furthermore, yes everyone is connected to the Force, but if your Midichlorian count is too low, then you are not able to wield the Force as your ally. That is the differentiation, and the KEY to how it all actually works. Yes Sabine has connection to the Force like everyone else, but her Midichlorian count is too low to wield it. That's how this works. That is how this is supposed to work. Force SENSITIVE means you're able to learn to wield the Force because your midi count is high enough to accomplish it. Making Force Sensitives RARE is a massive key to the galaxy's mythos. This decision was beyond bone headed, and just more intersectional feminism on the march.

[@phdspencer9852]

I miss jedi having unique powers others didn't have. Like how the dark woman could teleport or how Plo Koon could use electric judgement. There's not much variety in force now

[@Kryptarch]

He's trying to "well technically" it, which is why I'm disillusioned with this decision. Good. Quality. Writing. That's what I want.

[@20th_century_Ghost]

Star Wars Universe Laws: Existing. Disney Staff: Changes Them. Fans: WTF? Wait a minute! Disney Staff: BIGOT!!

[@Sacrengard]

Scrap the force push thing.... why have Sabine help Ezra? why he doesnt just use force jump? show how badass he is with the force instead?

[@DavidM_10]

That would have been so much cooler and more logical. Ezra is a legit Jedi who spent a decade alone honing his Force powers. They could have gone all in on him being a Force "mage", using the kinds of Force abilities we see in games like KOTOR.

[@Hellaframes]

Dave is the reason I cancelled Disney+

[@theeroyaltgaming]

I think it should’ve been Ezra who force pushed Sabin. That way it makes more sense. She could’ve use the force to pull the lightsaber to her but she would not been able to have force push Ezra. Now you have Ezra and Ahsoka stuck to face Baylan and Shin Hati. Sabin makes it back to the galaxy to warn everybody. That way you force the focus on Luke to save everyone by stopping Thrawn. Sabine gets the Mandalorians to help fight.

[@theeroyaltgaming]

Sabin‘s jet pack is slightly damage which is why she can’t make it to the Chimera and that’s why you need Ezra to assist with a force push.

[@anthony7697]

It all to me basically comes down to season 2 - if we get it made clear that this is Sabine using the dark side, even if unintentionally, to make shortcuts to suddenly make use of the force like that (as it's been said it can get you more power quicker), I'm fine with that, also falls in to the fact of why Ahsoka was afraid to continue her training. If not, well, yeah, then I'll, be highly unimpressed, and want to know who's call it was - Dave or one of his bosses.

[@Elyseon]

I doubt he'll let one of his pet characters suffer any reproach or consequences.

[@Revan-N7.]

I think it would have been better if Ezra successfully did the Force jump on his own. He has been defending himself literally ONLY with the Force for years, he even tried to claim that's all he needed. Being that in tune with the Force as he -truly should have been-, a massive Force-jump would be believable.

[@cameronpraete8080]

It was a very emotional moment and I believe that due to her high emotions she was able to in that one moment use that massive force push.

[@mar_speedman]

Ehh... Maybe if she drew power from the dark side? Makes sense, but until it's officially addressed, we're just filling the show's plotholes

[@michaelfincham2749]

I use to use the analogy, that everyone can run. But most Jedi are Olympians.

[@StillSaber]

I think with the whole Force jump/Force Push thing that Sabine did with Ezra, I think Sabine had some help in that situation and that situation came from non other then Anakin, I think Anakin was watching the whole ordeal with the Nightsisters Tower and gave Sabine a little bit of boost to get Ezra going.

[@brooklyntiger]

Dave is trying to use what George said as a cop out. .but its not congruent at all. Yea, George said everyone is force sensitive but he also said it takes training INCLUDING chosen ones and those with high midocholrian counts. Even then it takes training. Sabine jumped way too fast with that force push. I think we are all slowly realizing that Dave is NOT the guy

[@bobafett1313]

Glad more people are understanding how lazy “everyone can use the force” is. Lazy writing. It used to be having the force made you extremely special and it was like The Force itself bestowed its gift to these individuals which made it mysterious. Creators like George Lucas can make bad decisions, all because he is the creator doesn’t mean everything he does is flawless look at Jar Jar for example.

[@DavidM_10]

Filoni's reasoning aside, this is an example of Disney pushing the "everyone is special" narrative. *No* -- Jedi are gifted (or cursed, depending on how you look at it); to an extent they're like Marvel mutants. They have a potential power that most don't possess. That's how it's always been in canon stories, no matter what George said originally. He changed his mind, and it was the idea of Force sensitives being special that took hold and that the fanbase accepted.

[@benn2026]

I agree except for the bit about Sabine being “too powerful too quickly” in my mind, she was training with Ahsoka for years off screen, and yea she was never able to access the force, but then once she did, when it REALLY mattered, when Ezra and Ahsoka are fighting for their lives, she tried pulling the saber. She focused herself and did it. At that point it “clicked” she had all the theory from training with Ahsoka (again, for FAR longer than just the length of the show, as they said she was training for years and then there was a falling out) so that’s why she was able to push Ezra so far. And keep in mind she was BARELY able to get Ezra up there. Remember he nearly missed the ledge. So it wasn’t “instant” or JUST over the duration of the show. She was Ahsoka’s apprentice offscreen, not to mention her training with Kanan (granted that was just saber training). Anyway, I didn’t see anyone acknowledging that it wasn’t JUST over the course of the show

[@chadcat420]

the force itself could have gave sabine that power momentarily for plot progression lol

[@chrislutz7557]

I think that when she finally tapped the Force, because it was in the heat of battle, that it was the dark side she channeled, and I want to see her deal with the repercussions of that. I'd love it if they took this path.

[@scuffandy8723]

George also created midichlorians making it genetic

[@verse2304]

Proposition: throughout the first season of AHSOKA, Sabine Wren is haunted by the loss of her family, and Ezra Bridger in particular. Sabine's attachments could have interrupted her focus and weakened her force abilities. Furthermore, Sabine is a trained Mandalorian who has shown she's capable of centering herself, except when dealing with attachments. (See REBELS, Season 3, Ep 15) There is a noticeable change in Sabine's confidence (focus) after she's reunited with Ezra. Also, the infamous Force Dyad introduced in the sequel trilogy is worth consideration; being (physically) closer to Ezra (literally or figuratively) could have empowered Sabine, strengthening her concentration and connection to the Force. (If either is possible, they do not excuse Filoni's poor execution, so neither was made clear to the audience.)

[@Andalaeknir86]

I think they should have jad a lot more focus on her training in between even flash backs would have helped

[@esteban20969564]

I was ok with using the force to get the lightsaber, but for the jump scene, I would had made her gave Ezra her bracer with the extensive cable to jump and do a "spiderman" to the ship. she could said something like "Keep this for me until I return" that would had created a constant reminder to ezra of sabine just like Ezra lightsaber was for her while he was in the planet, full circle. "is like poetry"

[@kevingt7777]

Sabine has been around the force push in an episode of rebels where kanan and ezra both pushed her so she had that in the back of her mind for a long time

[@TriskelArts]

Seeing people rage about this just makes me feel old. George was literally talking about how anyone could be a force user as far back as at least 2004. I guess there’s a lot of lore tidbits from back then that haven’t stayed mainstream. It was great to see a lot of the older Nightsister lore from the early 2000s also brought into the show.

[@sinistavoicez]

If I start training martial arts in my late 20s no way I'd be a black belt in 2 weeks, 2 months, hell 2 years.

[@rmw9420]

especially if your doctor says your "bones" are the weakest he's ever seen

[@theInvincibleOne-1]

I didn't mind her using the force to grab the lightsaber, but the force push was total BS.