Neonicotinoid Latest News

An update on two important developments in the neonic saga:
1) Good news, government rejects application for emergency use on sugar beet.
2) Ban news, flea treatments on pets are poisoning blue and great tits
New paper: www.sciencedir...

[@elliotlane3225]

Great news about the sugarbeet pesticide usage. Seems strange that governments of all hues make noise about the UK diets and sugar taxes but then allowed such indiscriminate and dangerous chemicals to be used to protect sugar production. Keep shining a light on the use of these dangerous chemicals whether on crops or pets!

[@Frazinator1869]

If only far more land was farmed for food and not for cash.

[@gingervirus2988]

Answer: Tory Minister Victoria Atkins (Health Secretary) married to CEO of British Sugar. No conflict of interest. Obviously

[@1310Gaytan]

Thanks a lot! I have had a few discussions with our vets in the UK, but it has not worked well... We should only use these treatments when we actually have seen the fleas and ticks.

[@doccox27]

Thanks for this, Dave. Hugely important.

[@denisetaylor4433]

Thank you for this video. Very informative. One of my concerns is packs of hunt hounds defecating all over the place in woodlands and even regularly on SSSIs in the case of the Warwickshire Hunt which regularly trespasses on these sensitive sites. I assume the hounds will receive regular flea treatments and therefore present more of a biohazard due to the fact that they are out in packs of upto 40 hounds at a time four to six times a week for eight months of the year. And noone ever picks up their waste. Do you have any thoughts on this?

[@sashalongworth]

The advice of my vet said to use Bravecto every 3 months to prevent fleas and ticks. I only used to give my dog it in the warmer months May to October, but was told it wouldnt be effective. I was and am concerned about giving my dog this all through the year. I am questioning the yearly boosters as well. Its really hard to get sound advice without being made to feel a bad pet owner.

[@wiztwas]

Vaccines are good they have minimal impact on the environment and prevent lots of terrible diseases in all sorts of animals. Insecticides are bad they poison insects and do damage to the environment.

[@Frazinator1869]

The pet industry including vets make a shed load from the products we dump into our environment.

[@rosieblackburn948]

We are lucky to have an independent vet who uses alternative, holistic methods - in combination with standard veterinary medicine if necessary - and they actually say on their website words to the effect that they don’t prescribe pesticides - because they realise they’re good for absolutely no one (except shareholders). So maybe you’ll be lucky and find someone similar near you - ours is Petersfield Integrated Vets in Hampshire. Ps we use BillyNoMates - seems to work well

[@LittleMiska31]

I absolutely agree, dont they ever frown upon you! Stand your ground. I only had the puppy vacs. My GSD is 7 now but had a large lump of cancer cut out recently. I blame the Bravecto and will be researching and trying natural alternatives from now on. Also my elderly cats started fitting so I stopped using it at once on them. Interesting info on fenbendazole (panacur dog de wormer) emerging now re treating the big C.......worth knowing

[@albert2395]

I am doing my little bit, Dave. I am not using any chemicals in the garden and turned the lawn into a mini flower meadow. And the borders are stacked with herbacious perennials!

[@robinbiddlecombe9202]

Thanks for the update, just commenting for the algorythm really :)

[@c-kcountry-kiwi5294]

Great information. Thanks Dave. When I lived in a frost-free area, where fleas proliferated, my dog's fleas disappeared when penny-royal mint spread through the lawn. When we moved to a colder climate, where penny-royal wouldn't grow, back came the fleas and the need to dose.

[@kaysimperfectgarden.4043]

Over the last thirty years we've continually had pet dogs and never used flea treatments and never had any fleas. Maybe we've just been lucky but it makes me think people have been unnecessarily cautious. I will wait for the problem to occur and if it ever does I'll deal with it, hopefully In a safe and natural way.

[@gingervirus2988]

Thank you for everything that you and your colleagues do Dave. With regard to neonicotinoids getting into rivers, ponds and lakes and damaging the invertebrates it might be worth contacting The Angling Trust. They have had some success in past lobbying of government as they are recognised as the representative body for anglers. Similarly former Undertones frontman Feargal Sharkey is a big voice in fighting pollution of our rivers and may be unaware of the insidious nature of neonicotinoids. I realise that headlice and fleas are not the same but I’ve found that regular combing followed by a good shampoo and conditioner and then combing again works well for two of my three dogs. The problem one is a Jackapoo that has tight curly hair that is almost impossibly blue to get a fine-toothed comb through except when coat is very short.

[@Frazinator1869]

Some good advice there to manually remove pests. Unfortunately, due to human meddling in nature by creating all these different breeds of dogs (and cats) makes it practically impossible to remove pests from some dogs due to abnormal hair growth unless poisons are administered. The market will drag it's feet as usual on controlling these poisons for pet use unless government steps in.

[@alisonbates4901]

Could you give us some links to this research so we can start bringing it to the attention of our MPs and demanding some action? I doubt many pet owners know anything about this. Thanks for all you are doing.

[@davegoulson6831]

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969725000737

[@antonyjh1234]

In a tank of diesel is 636 kilowatts of energy, for me that is around 3 months of electrical energy in the sub tropics with the air con going 24-7, if somebody uses a tank a week for a year, it is equal to 17 years of my electrical energy, along with that we spew hundreds of millions of tonnes of insecticide, pesticide, fungicide, herbicide into a tiny sliver of atmosphere. This energy is going to destroy almost all species and we cause more damage driving to the park than some birds picking up fur to line their nests with. All power to you for demanding action but have you ever heard the saying, doing good work but in the wrong place? This might be water off the forever chemical back for all the good it would achieve overall.

[@th.wegmans5752]

No link for Bluesky?

[@suewright1299]

Excellent news about the neonicotinoids Dave, let's hope it lasts throughout time to keep our Bees and everything else so very safe. With regards to the spot type of flea killers: considering the atrocious numbers of birds we've lost over the years, I'd sincerely hope all pet lovers would only treat against fleas as a last resort!

[@jenliggins507]

I don't have housepets at the moment but I have dealt with a couple of flea infestations in the house in the past, and the cans of poison required to eradicate them was scary. Proper research needed.

[@tamjammy4461]

Yip. Our vet has us signed up for monthly treatments for our dog as part of a general veterinary payment plan.We don't take the treatment, but it's included in the plan and they offer no "opt out" for the flea treatment. Sadly. Don't know how we should deal with the situation as we m told other local vets are the same.

[@hertsengland]

Nit combs, the best solution I found. They work !

[@sarahgriffiths-p5k]

I've had dogs for nearly 60 years, with only two cases of fleas and one solitary tick. Pure luck, maybe? I've always checked my dogs regularly with a flea comb, and as you said, made good use of the washing machine and hoover. The dogs have active, sociable lives in the countryside, they are just not dabbed behind the ears with eau de poison until it's needed.

[@1tuinman]

Thanks Dave, any research into the use of anti-worm tablets for cats and dogs?

[@speleokeir]

I can't help wondering about the effects long term exposure of these poisons on both our pets and ourselves too. Has there been much research into that?

[@davegoulson6831]

There is some evidence that firponil impacts human health, particularly babies.

[@antonyjh1234]

99.97% of the mass of the atmosphere is 62 mile/100 kilometres high, because of gravity. All the mass we put out and the sprays goes into this tiny sliver of atmosphere, these minuscule amounts comparatively that are put onto dogs like the one mentioned, that aren't in the bloodstream but on the skin and then the hair, which is why the impact could be more in humans/babies etc, because of the hair being swallowed, would as a i say be such a small amount of tonnage USA, animals take around one third of one crop, corn, human designated crops are a much more consistent exposure to these sprays, they are the food, the air and the ground which is why everything has it in it. We spray far more tonnage of crops for humans than we do animals and all these sprays don't always stay where they are sprayed, they go into the atmosphere all the insect's fly then wonder where the insects have gone.

[@tinakennard9520]

A step in the right direction

[@stewarth99]

Just look at the length of shelf space devoted to pets in any supermarket

[@CelestialHei]

Love ya Dave!

[@low-keylea]

Thank you for the update! Any advice or research you know of about heartworm prevention for dogs? I have been told that its better to do prevention for heartworm that to have my dog actually get it and then have to treat for it.

[@clairepidoux3108]

Hi, I have fed our cats organic cat food for over twenty years and as such didn't need to use any flea treatment. When one of my past cats reached 18 years old her immune system was a bit less strong so she did develop fleas. I used something natural at the time, can't remember what - something along the lines of billy no mates like Dave mentioned. If you feed good quality chemical free food most animals shouldn't need flea treatment. I know organic is more expensive but we didn't really ever have to take her to the vet. Hope this helps, best wishes

[@MadAsBagOfMonkeys]

Every Solution Creates an Equal and Opposite Problem - Lockwoods Law of Human Progress

[@TheUntypicals]

Flea beetles are parasited by wasps to 98-99%. The weather for the last 2 years has been awful for beets and other crops. So the Tories didn't follow the science and insects etc are worse off since Brexit along with farmers...

[@rosieblackburn948]

We use Billy No Mates on our two dogs and it seems to work - they don’t have fleas and haven’t picked up a tick since we started using it. We haven’t bothered feeding it to them since probably October and we’ll start again in March / whenever it warms up. It smells quite strongly but the dogs - who are generally sensitive beings - don’t seem to care / notice. We stopped using spots on years ago (and never used them monthly). We work on the basis of if there’s a problem I.e. worms in their poo, we deal with it. Though to be honest that never happens either! I know some owners send poo samples away for testing to ensure their animals are okay - in order to avoid proactive application of pesticides (but we’re not that rich!).

[@Earthismadeoflayers]

Alternative flea repellent/killer (I used this on heavily infested stray dogs and small puppies in Greece and it worked): Bathing: used a strong dish soap (fairy liquid etc) -made it really thick frothy on the fur, rubbed it into a thick layer so the dogs turned white with froth! Around the head but not the eyes or mouth. Left 5-10 minutes. This suffocates the fleas. Rinsed very well, then another 'normal' wash with my shampoo (I had no access to dog shampoo) and dilute wash on their full face and wiped in the ears. I boiled eucalyptus leaves direct from a tree, along with lemons (that is not essential oil, it is a tea!), and when cooled rubbed that in them focussing on ears, neck, armpits, groin, tails. The fleas did not come back on this pack of 8 street dogs for the 4 months I was there. Cleaned their sleeping areas. Anything fluffy/carpet like will have eggs in there. Boil it (well actually minimum 60 deg C wash for an hour minimum is fine) or throw it away. Essential oils do work, but you have to know what your doing - they can be incredibly potent, some can burn like bleach (like oregano oil). Cats are more sensitive to certain essential oils especially as they groom themselves and eat their fur - look up whats safe and how much to use as pretty much all essential oils should be diluted they are very concentrated. Teas from boiling plants is fine, as that is already diluted. People have been 'trained' to just use a pill or spray and forget about it until the next month in the calendar - but it is much better to interact with pets very regularly in grooming and bathing than relying on a chemical that fleas etc become resistant to anyway.

[@LittleMiska31]

Thanks for the heads up, I will be sure to share this info. I stopped using Bravecto on my elderly cats as Im sure its what started them fitting. I switched to regular diatomaceous earth powder. Messy but safer and they hardly went outside due to their age. But I have dogs at my smallholding, and where there are chickens there are rats, so was using Bravecto on the dogs in the warmer months. Ill be re thinking for sure now since my 7 yr old GSD had a large lump of cancer removed recently ( some interesting info re fenbendazole emerging on that). Will be trying every possible natural alternative now and may have to prepare for a few bites, time to ditch the poisons I think....

[@tedchoi243]

Oh dear

[@MsMuffin52]

This seems strange because, when people deflea their dogs, they only put the chemical in a spot on the back of the neck. They don’t put it all over the dog. So if they just avoided putting hair from that area out, there should not be anything on it. Interesting information and good advice about bed bedding etc.

[@TyGraigJane]

As far as I understand it, spot on treatments are absorbed into the animal's blood stream via the skin so the treatment is then spread throughout the body, thereby affecting all hair folicles and all the hair. And despite it seeming like a tiny amount, think of it like a drop of vanilla essence added to a cake mixture: a tiny amount of vanilla essence can make a huge difference to the flavour of the entire cake. The flavinoids are distributed through out the mixture. Spot on flea treatments have a similar effect. It's a tiny amount but the product molecules are distributed throughout the animal's body. We need to consider the effect of these products on a molecular level because there is so much about the animal world, especially insects, which we do not yet understand. 🐝

[@MUSTASCH1O]

This has been bothering me ever since I first found out about it. More research into the quantity of insects and chicks that are being killed by these anti-flea poisons is needed to prove how severe the issue is. Also, if it is enough to increase the chances of mortality in chicks, what damage might these chemicals be doing to babies and toddlers exposed to these animals and their fur at home? Probably very difficult to determine any correlation, but surely some caution is warranted.

[@MaryBeton]

Someone should develop a XenTari equivalent for fleas - big commercial opportunity. And maybe it would even be better than the status quo!

[@InkNSap]

Hi Dave, are there any petitions to stop the use of these pesticides in dogs and cats?

[@davegoulson6831]

I don't think so, but I might start one!

[@jerryarmitage206]

@@davegoulson6831 Please do, I will sign it.

[@helenporter7584]

The farmer I follow on KZbin says that sugar beet growers will now use different more toxic pesticides? He also says that sugar imported from abroad may contain 20 pesticides which are banned in the UK. How can farmers control the flea beetle in a safe way?

[@davegoulson6831]

Farmers across France and Germany manage to grow sugar beet without neonics, suggest he talks to them. Or grow something that is nutritious/ healthy.

[@gingervirus2988]

There’s an old country saying “No-one ever sees a happy farmer or a dead donkey”. They promote themselves as the guardians of the countryside; some are, many aren’t

[@iggzistentialism8458]

Apparently, specifically for flea beetles, they use more organic methods - higher seeding rates, crop rotation, biological control, trap crops, row covers, organic insecticides, mulching and precision farming. I know open seeding in an unprotected field will limit the usefulness of these and most of these add costs. For other crops, plant defence elicitors, organic and mineral oils, entomopathogenic fungi, natural insecticides, less impactful synthetic ones (although resistance can occur), and integrated pest management are used.

[@helenporter7584]

@@gingervirus2988 I do know that, I live next to a terrible one!

[@patriciaschubert7616]

Flea combs ? 🦋🥰🐝

[@mmmp5kw3]

I have 2 dogs and literally never have to use flea treatment. What on earth are people doing to their dogs to get fleas?

[@sashalongworth]

I am wondering whether to stop giving Bravecto to my dog. My vet said every 3 months otherwise its not effective against fleas and ticks. Before this I only gave it in the Summer months but was 'told off ' by my vet. I too didn't have a problem with fleas and could remove the ticks by hand . I am thinking it's a money thing. Same with the annual boosters ( my dog is 12) where to get sound advice?

[@waltermcphee3787]

when my cat needs flea treatment it takes here a couple of days looking under the weather, slow and reserved before she gets over it.

[@sarahjameson2110]

@@sashalongworth you are right to question your vets routine use of these products on your dog especially if you have not had a case of fleas and are able to pick off ticks manually. This is what we do. In 25 years of keeping dogs we've had 1 case of fleas when our dogs mixed with others that were infected. We are seeing more ticks now but we just check our dog carefully and remove with a tick remover if seen. There are some herbal treatments - look up Billy No Mates - that people do say help keep their dogs tick/flea free. You also have to think about what that insecticide pill is doing a) to your dog internally and b) to anyone that strokes your dog esp children, and c) to invertebrates your dog may walk/swim amongst in the wild. The vets get a lot of money from routine prescriptions and it's up to us as customers to question that. Ditto with vaccinations. You have to vax against Lepto. But ask your vets about titre testing your dog. This is a blood test that shows how much immunity your dog has against the 3 main diseases the vaccinations cover. If your dog has good immunity you can put off vaccinating indefinitely (if you keep titre testing, every 3 years). My vet was happy to do this. It cost around £80 for the test (not cheap) and more costly than the vax (I wonder why). But I'd rather do this. You do have to inform your pet insurer (who will no longer insure you against the diseases you're not vaxing for) and kennels stays may be problematic since they need proof of vaxing. Obviously you would not want to ever endanger your dog, but titre testing is an accepted way of not vaxing if your dog's immunity is good.

[@low-keylea]

Fleas are so, so common where I live, so depends on where you are, I guess.

[@lisadurham2545]

As a vet and lifelong dog owner, I can assure you people don't need to 'do' anything to their dogs to get fleas. They are common, and happy, well cared for dogs who socialise will often get fleas through no fault of their own or their owners. Nobody is to blame we just need safe solutions. I must also say that fipronil is also used (off license) to treat leg mange in horses (chorioptes). I am ashamed to say that in the past I recommended routine flea prophylaxis, standard advice at the time. As Prof. Goulson says the RCVS and VMD need to look at this issue.