Pro Audio Sound Tips #3

[@robertkehlerjr.8258]

Thank you for sharing everything you do ... it’s a nice change to see experienced gentleman like you helping others that are new in the pro audio area

[@DaveRat]

Thank you

[@Auxknob1]

Daisy chaining DI’s for press box feeds. I’m sitting here banging my head going “genius!” So practical so simple. Thank you for sharing.

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

I don't exactly understand that part, can you elaborate it a bit more for me? I've never run into anything like that around here (yet) but it sounds like an ingenious solution.

[@Auxknob1]

djjazzyjeff123 - I hope Dave has an opportunity to respond here as he shared this with all of us. I’ll give it a try (and probably butcher it). Take one of the outs of your console,,,, aux bus, channel insert tap, matrix, etc. and convert the cable path to 1/4” and run it to a passive DI box, a camera can plug into the xlr output of the DI and get a usable send. Use the pass thru 1/4” on the DI to connect a 2nd 3rd 4th, etc. DI box to make as many of this type of feed as you might need. The only issue i can imagine is cable length from the console, depending on the whether or not an instrument cable is used there could be noise insertion on longer unbalanced cables. Like I said I may not have it all figured but I got the concept and I know I can put this to use when the shop doesn’t send a press box. Cheers to all!!!

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

@@Auxknob1 Sorry, I wasn't clear in my question. I mostly understood the daisy chaining DI boxes together, I just am lost about the camera deal. Why would they need or want a mic channel for the camera? Only time I've had people show up with cameras they took care of their audio themselves. But the gigs I do are usually pretty small potatoes, maybe in the medium-large scale venues things are different.

[@DaveRat]

yep, that's the deal. and as far as unbalanced cables, since console outs are low impedance line level, you can run them fairly far, father than you can a guitar or bass without the issues of high impedance low level signals

[@Auxknob1]

@@djjazzyjeff1232 - Ah, my misunderstanding. You've been lucky... Someday a camera op/crew will come to you wanting a live split off the console to get cleaner audio for archive or news needs. Room noise mixed with the PA can make for some rough audio. IMO Dave's solution is the perfect way to throw some splits out in a pinch, when a press box isn't an option or available. Cheers.

[@DcSoundOp]

Really cool to hear about the membership area, thanks for all of the great videos recently!

[@DaveRat]

Thank you and thank you for all your support and cool stuff you do!

[@timotheusmiller]

I like those mini wedges!

[@DaveRat]

👍

[@Dan.Christy]

Thanks Dave ! Your idea are awesome love seeing you make

[@DaveRat]

Thank you Dan

[@alexandrealex2786]

Hey Dave you rock ! Thank you for your generosity !!

[@DaveRat]

Thank you!

[@topekadiyver2]

Thanks for sharing your experience and info with us!

[@DaveRat]

Thank you for hanging out!

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

I REALLY like the practical tips, like the extra inputs on the chart on a local PA just so you have something to fall back on. Also it's easy for us sound people, especially when we have lots of toys to play with, to get caught up in the lights and meters and numbers and stuff and forget to just mix with your ears. If your ears tell you its good, but your analyzers show it as being way out of whack, who cares! There's not a single person in that room besides you who cares what that analyzer curve looks like but everyone in that room cares what it SOUNDS like.

[@DaveRat]

Awesome and thank you

[@cameronfoale8270]

I'm not a sound engineer - if the analyzer curves are wildly out of whack but it sounds good at the desk, does that mean maybe you're standing in a nodal point?

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

@@cameronfoale8270 Yeah it could be, but it's like Dave said in the video the actual cause is probably some sort of a malfunction or something. I was mostly saying some people are like no you NEED to run bass at a 6:1 compression or something, anything lower than that isn't enough. And then maybe you listen to it and you're tweaking everything around and it sounds best when it's barely compressing at all or something, then trust your ears, it doesn't matter what the numbers are if it SOUNDS good, it IS good because that's what everyone is there to experience: it sounding good.

[@BermanSound]

100% pure true. If I may, I would add another point of view for this discussion. Any kind of music has its own eq. Dont try make classical music LOOK like deep house. Any music can sound good- but it dosent have to look good. Use your excellent measurment gear to colaborate, measure and testing your equipment. When it gets to mix and sound- you have two wonderful super-high-end-well-designed machines attached to your brain. Use them.

[@DaveRat]

When looking at analyzer curves the time frame is very important. I will do a video describing it more in-depth but if you look at a very short. Of time when somebody's hitting the symbols and no kick Drum it may seem very bright or conversely if someone's hitting the kick drum and playing bass without guitar symbols or vocals it may seem very dull. The time frame that you look at can be quite long. nothing says that it needs to be totally balanced every second it could be totally balanced over the course of the entire show that starts off bright and works its way to dull and back to Bright again

[@crh054s]

Hell yeah, I’m pumped for the membership, had to pause the video so I could hurry up and get signed up 🤘

[@DaveRat]

Hello Cole and welcome! This should fun, looking forward to adventuring into new topics and hanging w you and all!

[@davegardner7731]

Bloody awesome stuff lovin your info shares

[@DaveRat]

Thank you!!

[@Wizerslapski]

Wow that bit about mic patterns is genius. Didn’t know the “almost behind” wedge trick with hyper card mics. Sweet!

[@isettech]

Much of this is in training materials and in classes. Many getting in the field are flying by the seat of their pants with no formal training. This is much more common than you would think. I've been to many "professional" events where the sound guy was so far from the basics in the console owner's manual it was cringeworthy. Most often this is seen in churches. Most churches use a volunteer from the congregation. I've started providing classes to churches. Most churches are afraid some outsider will mess up the system. Due to this, I bring a system to set up fully from scratch and not touch the house system, then train on that so the house engineer has the skill set to make the needed changes. Most common issue in churches is failure to monopolize the levels. They turn the amps up and the console down and wonder why the sound in the recordings for shutins or video feed is so bad.

[@DaveRat]

Awesome!

[@DaveRat]

I personally try and do my videos to cover subjects that are not in training classes

[@Gretsch0997]

Hey Dave, great discussion on wedge vs polar patterns. I was hoping you’d use your mini-monitors right beside you on the bench as demo’s. But thanks just the same.

[@DaveRat]

They will be back soon

[@Gretsch0997]

Hahh… perfect.

[@DaveRat]

👍👍👍

[@targetpanicrecords]

I will sign up Mr. Dave

[@DaveRat]

Yay and welcome! I have some cool stuff I want to do exclusive!

[@danielfmyers]

No one talks about monitor placement according to mic patterns or mic choices according to monitor setups 👍

[@DaveRat]

Thank you!

[@EJCAudio]

I had the opposite problem way back in the early days - Beta58 in a pub venue; feeding back off the low, reflective ceiling. Tilted the mic down and solved it, no EQ required

[@audiogrouch]

every single Shure microphone comes with a monitor placement chart in the box! Funny how no one sees it

[@jean-philippeedel3861]

Thanks !

[@DaveRat]

Cool cool

[@loudwire3194]

Dave, thank you for sharing your brain waves with the world! Keep it up

[@DaveRat]

Awesome and thank you!

[@BermanSound]

Great info. Thsnks dave! Only a little note about DIs for annoying press. It works only with passive or self powered DIs (batteries etc.). You cant get 48v from a video camera. See you all in the sound-human zone. Im in :)

[@DaveRat]

Great point, def need a DI with a battery of passive. Thank you

[@Espresso101]

I want a whole set of these mini speakers. Monitor wedges, sidefills, and Line Array versions so i can build a mini festival setup, sync em all to Bluetooth and play music. Would be a great conversation starter for anyone walking in and seeing that little setup. Not to mention running experiments.

[@DaveRat]

Super fun! Yes, what I really need to go with it is a tiny mixer with 1/8" inputs and outputs or smaller. A Mon mixer w 8 mixes and 12 inputs would be great

[@Espresso101]

@@DaveRat omg my heart....i would spend forever experimenting on live multitracks, saving snapshots, trying out all kinds of things. I'm ok using trs adaptors to patch into an interface or direct outs to 1/8 into these mini speakers using a DAW till a mixer is available. This seriously would be amazing to have at home on a table to run all kinds of mixes vs going to the warehouse and firing up the PA. May have to go the extra mile a grab a set of Funko Pop Heads of my favorite band and build them a stage too.

[@sbroggie]

Thanks, Dave! Those mini MW15s are rad. Can't wait to hear them in a demo.

[@DaveRat]

They sound pretty darn cool

[@alejo_mixes]

100% support Dave is Good to share that knowleage and if we the comunity can give back some for all this advice plus special tips i would be happy to do it

[@DaveRat]

Awesome and I think it will be fun. More relaxed for me to release info and a tighter knot group. There is a community page on KZbin where I can post member only info and started a member only playlist

[@PPGGEARBOX]

You need to print a small mic stand and mic set for demo..... Get a wipe board behind you....... great video......

[@DaveRat]

Working on it!

[@yogifish4721]

Great info.. Thanks 😎 💪

[@DaveRat]

Glad it was helpful!

[@topekadiyver2]

For those of us who can't afford the $5 a month, can we like, come over and mow your lawn for a years subscription?

[@DaveRat]

Ha! I will still offer free info!

[@blingblingbc]

He only cares about money ... move on their are other great sound guys to learn from ...

[@larryboulware3063]

xCAPTBLUNTx could you name some other great sound guys' channels?

[@aurasalmu7612]

Adorable Nano Wedges!

[@DaveRat]

So fun to make little noise toys!

[@aholder4471]

I clicked for the mini monitors. I want some. Are you going to post the 3d print layout for them anywhere?

[@DaveRat]

I may do at some point

[@aholder4471]

@@DaveRat Those are the coolest things I've seen in a while. I could see a bunch of audio guys wanting those for either portable or computer speakers. Just to be different. Love it. And love the idea of setting up a whole mini rig from them. Could be a great training tool too.

[@DaveRat]

Awesome, yes, I will get back on that project soon. They are fun!

[@isettech]

In regards to feeding media, pick up one isolated pressbox. For events frequented by the media, I set a Horizon PB-8 out for the press area. reverb.com/item/29789103-horizon-devices-pb8-isolated-passive-press-box-rack-mount-1-in-8-out-w-loop-out-pb-8 I have one in a box with a network switch wired to a patch panel so the one case is used to distribute networks and press feed. Set it up on an aux send with the mics live for the event so the press can check the feed before you go live on the console to the house. Otherwise you will have to deal with press complaining about a dead feed.

[@DaveRat]

Def want to carry a method for press and other feeds

[@lerrynhawke3375]

Dave seems as chuffed about his pocket rig as I am!!!

[@DaveRat]

If by chuffed you mean excited, yes!

[@DJmontieljr]

Dave, a discord server would be pretty awesome as well!

[@DaveRat]

Cool, I will look into it, thank you

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

I would love that. I'd browse in there every day! lol

[@dannixon247]

Yeah bro, Discord is a real good way to build a hardcore smaller fan base.... I'd definitely follow that regularly too!!

[@mphillipsmusic]

hey dave! not sure when the membership will be available, but i'm super stoked to join up. im a greenhorn sound engineer coming from a session player background. you've given me so much helpful information in the last few days of youtube binging alone. i can't wait to see more demos with these 3D mini speakers. you're an inspiration!

[@DaveRat]

Very soon, Maybe today or by monday

[@samaBR333]

how come this comment is from 5 days ago?

[@DaveRat]

@@samaBR333 great question! I posted the vid 5 days ago but did not turn on memberships till today. I was shocked when I got a comment. Turns out that if you post an unlisted video and attach to a playlist, people viewing playlists can access. At that point I did not have a members only option. And 9 people found it pre release. Hello Samuel and welcome!

[@samaBR333]

Dave Rat i just love your work and hear you talk. i took a picture with you last time you came to Sao Paulo to a peppers concert. keep up!

[@DaveRat]

@@samaBR333 awesome and thank you. Oh, I can't wait to get back to Brazil!

[@pearldrumsets]

Good to here dave would you condsider zoom meetings were were can share info?

[@DaveRat]

Yes, I will do some live streaming as well as live chats. Probably via youtube but open to other formats if they give better results

[@davidjbarfield]

hi dave, thanks for all the data. wondering if your aes cable sound zoom demo got recorded?

[@DaveRat]

Yes and will post here soon!

[@davidjbarfield]

@@DaveRat great! i spaced the show.

[@danieljamesmcgorry2192]

Thanks Dave! Audio humans unite!

[@DaveRat]

Thank you and yes!

[@jleblan1]

Maybe a limited run on those little scale wedges as some rad little Bluetooth speakers?

[@DaveRat]

Yeah, pondering that. trying to print them so they are less time consuming to finish up. and still testing various speakers. Thank you

[@andrus108]

I have seen videos of monitoring setups on big stages, where monitor wedges are located behind the vocalist, but in conjunction with regular ones in front. What would be the purpose of doing that? Separate signals?

[@DaveRat]

Yes, having sound come from the rear helps increase audibility. the rear wedges are not optimally located but having sound come from multiple directions is helpful

[@TerdFurg3zon]

Count me in Dave. Please let us know where we can help. A+ content.

[@DaveRat]

Awesome. In the community chat area I can chat w members and will be more on top of answers and such

[@enochmarfo2133]

Please what is the membership channel link.

[@DaveRat]

Hey hey Enoch! cool cool, the link is kzbin.info/door/_nJM07b0k7C9CvcM-9OH6wjoin The members only videos up so far are kzbin.info/aero/PLqsPeTx2oVycs5l6Bb4Rbzbu4STpVKuIq

[@fostervf16]

Those monitors would look great for a teddy bear band. Maybe even cabbage patch kids. Lol.

[@DaveRat]

Totally!

[@fostervf16]

@@DaveRat set it up!

[@nicktayloradventures]

Bluetooth mini Microwedges?

[@DaveRat]

Yeah, working on a small stereo bluetooth amp rack

[@VictorRochaGaming]

I'm in. I'm not in the industry anymore but I find your talks fascinating. I used to lug your heavy boxes when I worked for the Ray Woodbury/Kevin Lyman Claremont crew in the mid-90s.

[@DaveRat]

Hello Victor and very cool!

[@magnussoderman6676]

What's the driver in those small MW 15 ?

[@DaveRat]

Still testing several different 2.5" drivers to find the optimum. I will post more as I settle in

[@veeransookoo4514]

hey Dave when would you be sending out the membership info

[@DaveRat]

It should show up in the description, see if this link works kzbin.info/door/_nJM07b0k7C9CvcM-9OH6wjoin

[@thizzyglider555]

Cool

[@DaveRat]

👍🤙👍

[@michaellambie8427]

I would like to that very much

[@DaveRat]

Hello Michael!

[@JohnvL]

9:55 Some artist and singers, specially rappers need a course or tutoring on how to handle microphones. Some point them in the monitor while the guitar is doing a solo or something. Or rappers who put their hands around the head of the microphone. The sound sounds badly (only mid) towards, and more ringing problems. They should delve into the manual of a microphone. I once had an artist where I toured started with those antics. At the moment I was fed up and made extra feedback. Later I thought of quitting that artist. On a very expensive equipment and you try to get everything right and such artists ruin it because they can't handle a microphone. Everybody tries their best to get everything right. Guitarist, keyboard bass, sound people, the makers of equipment. But apparently people do not dare to speak to those singers. Especially for the lead singer, your microphone is your instrument!

[@DaveRat]

Fighting the battle of how to get musicians or any artist to "do things right" when often their art and success has a foundation in rule breaking, is a battle that may not be best won. Often embracing the art and altering technology and creativity such that the art is preserved while the goals are accomplished, can be wise. Early on, as a punk rock PA company, we embraced the chaos and destruction. We built our gear to withstand the abuse and became a favorite sound company for punk and alt rock bands. Then all these punk bands and offshoots got really popular. It was our embracing of the art rather than an attempt to train them, that I attribute much of our success. If we had trained Peter Townsend not to break guitars or Jimi Hendrix not to bite his guitar or Eddie Vedder not to climb the PA and break mic stands, or for bands to never play to loud and so on, where would the greatness of music be?

[@JohnvL]

@@DaveRat Also good point. If it were part of a show, I get that. Especially if they pay the damage themselves. But that is not my point. More the incompetence. But here a sound engineer is blamed for everything that goes wrong. Does not have to do with the "show". Even if someone sings out of tune or someone completely throws away his talents when drunk.

[@alaskaaudioguy35]

What link on the bottom is no good it sends me to a KZbin page that is not in English that was created in 2010. You should remove looks alike spam

[@DaveRat]

I will check it out

[@joshblair8344]

hey Dave whats the chance i can get the STL file for the micro-microwedge?

[@DaveRat]

I may post it at some point once refined. Looking to do an entire tiny PA system

[@joshblair8344]

@@DaveRat Awesome, Thank you for your reply and time!

[@buildr3303]

I just wish we were friends lol

[@DaveRat]

All audio humans are my friends, Hello Bob!

[@weareallbeingwatched4602]

£5 a month is more than web hosting costs. Can't afford that on my freelancer budget.

[@DaveRat]

All good and will still post free videos as I have been with me free time for all that desire free info and observations I have spent my life accumulating. And then also to have the paid area where I can share more current and interactive info should be fun and cool as well.

[@weareallbeingwatched4602]

@@DaveRat the internet needs something like an audio guild, or trade association of sound system people, which does training & certification etc. Same as the difference between wikipedia and a university library, we need an XXX for the AES.

[@fostervf16]

Ugh. Now us starving musicians/sound nerds will have to pay! You're worth it. Well.....maybe.

[@DaveRat]

I hope its enjoyable, will definitely be more connected w members but that said will still offer free vids and such as I to spent many years as a starving sound human. Doing the paid area will help me spend more time being assistive to those that desire

[@owenboyle9473]

The link doesn’t work? Did all the complaining change your mind? A couple of bucks per month doesn’t seem unreasonable, Experience comes with time. Very rarely can you shortcut that. It’s worth its weight in gold.

[@DaveRat]

Hello Owen! Super cool and thank you. As far as the link I don't know why that is could you maybe try from a computer and see if it works there? I would love some help in trying to get the link working

[@owenboyle63]

Dave Rat I was on my iPad I will try from the computer when I get home. Thanks.

[@DaveRat]

Cool and thank you and looking forward to ya joining. It's cool as it's public buffered and also though I've been lagging, will be doing more live chats and such as well as I use the group for guidance into new videos

[@audiogrouch]

link didn’t work for me either

[@owenboyle63]

@@audiogrouch I had to log in on the laptop for it to work. But it worked. Just not on my phone.

[@AtomEcho]

Wow, you are going to start charging people for this.....Ok. Making your videos private on a free platform, huh??? You know I remember when KZbin started. I was amazed that people were uploading and SHARING ideas, videos, information for free... Bringing the world closer together with education, art, and music. I would ask you to re-think your idea of charging money for your ideas. Go some where else, stop exploiting, or stop being a rat bro.... Thanks so much. Have a great day! No videos for money!!!!!!!!!!

[@DaveRat]

Actually, as I mentioned, I am going to continue to post videos and sharing information that I have spent my life accumulating and learning, for free. I am basically, sharing the info that I wish people had shared with me. And, in addition to the free info, I am going to have a space where I dedicate additional time and create additional videos for a core group of people that desire more content and depth. Michael, I am not sure how much of your time you spend everyday or week thinking of, creating and then sharing free information to help others but if it is something you do, I am sure you realize the depth of the task and I would love to see some personal examples you have endeavored on, please send a link to the free content you provide as I truly appreciate and respect those that are willing to dedicate a portion of their time to helping others. That said, one does not need to dedicate all of their time to free help for others, and I respect people that offer quality products and info and are compensated accordingly. And as you ponder this I ask that you perhaps rethink your call for others to provide free work and info and make sure you are practicing what you preach. And hello and welcome Michael!