Review: DG's Karajan Boxes--The 80s

[@natitenor]

David, THANK YOU for your hard work and humor. You brighten my day. Jessye Norman did record the two Tannhäuser Elizabeth arias, “Dich teure Halle” & “Allmächt’ge Jungfrau.” And whilst there are excerpts from Tannhäuser on the “Last Concert” all-Wagner program, the only sung selection sung in that concert, and on the recording, is the Liebestod (one for the ages). The Tannhäuser arias she recorded with Tennstedt & London Phil for Warner/EMI/Angel/Devil/whatever the f they’re calling themselves these days.

[@gavingriffiths2633]

There is also Karajan 'Opera' box that was released soon after the 80's box - Dave, love to hear you review that one....

[@henrymichael13]

For anyone interested, I feel that the Bruch Violin Concerto recording is a fantastic recording. Solo part is excellent while the orchestral part is arguably the best of all.

[@chrisdurham563]

The speed Karajan and the BPO take the final few bars is incredibly exciting!

[@melodymaker135]

“Nielsen needs to be SINEWY. This is like me: fat and lazy” 😂😂😂

[@grantparsons6205]

Hi Dave, it would be great to round off your review of Karajan with a discussion of the warner box surveying his Philharmonia years.

[@ppfuchs]

"Wonderfully arranged in the form of a Swastika!" You had me roaring with laughter, Dave. Beyond being very informed about great music, you sometimes are screamingly funny with your observations! The irony indeed!

[@samlaser1975]

Loved the Swastika comment. Put me in mind of the aerial shot of the dancers in the "Springtime For (You Know Who)" sequence in Mel Brooks' " The Producers".

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, exactly!

[@matthewweflen]

As someone who has all three boxes, I would say the essentials from the 80s box are the Haydn (the Paris are transcendent, the Londons are good), the Brahms (in the balance his best cycle in the best sound) and Double Concerto, the Strauss Alpensinfonie, Tod, and Metamorphosen, the Bruckner (especially the VPO late recordings), the live Mahler 9. I personally quite like some of the odds and ends like the Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and the Peer Gynt, for instance. So yeah, that's 20-30 discs out of 78 that are "must haves." The Planets, the Nielsen, and the St. Saens are indeed bin-worthy. A set like this makes the most sense for someone who doesn't have the other two boxes. You get a full Beethoven cycle which is fine, a great Brahms cycle, some great big band Haydn, and some great Strauss. However, if you own another box or a good selection of his 60s-70s output, you can get most of the great 80s stuff in separate boxes (there is a Haydn box, a Bruckner box, and a Strauss box, I believe) and a few single discs.

[@henrymichael13]

I would argue that the Karajan Gold recording of the Planets, whilst imperfect, is definitive and worth of merit in the most beautiful and tender moments of the work

[@matthewweflen]

@@henrymichael13 I could agree with that. The more muscular passages, however, come off as very weak compared to the HVK/VPO recording on Decca, or, say, Levine/CSO.

[@albastros8829]

And now....The Operas! Go on.

[@MDK2_Radio]

For what it's worth he died in the summer of 1989. I imagine they would have gotten him for the Ode an die Freiheit concert at the Brandenburg Gate rather than Bernstein if he hadn't yet passed.

[@dennischiapello3879]

Too bad he hadn't hung on long enough to see Bernstein get the gig.

[@petterw5318]

Thanks to your video I listened again to that Death and Transfiguration, and it's a TERRIFIC recording.

[@lesgoe8908]

"Their swastika's out of alilgment." (9:20) Classic Hurwitz! Really enjoyed this Karajan box-set series -- informative and entertaining, as usual.

[@heatherharrison264]

I have been waiting for this review, and it is about as I expected. Sets like this are always a mixed bag. The one advantage that the 1980s set has over the 1960s and 1970s sets is that it is available as a lossless digital download from Presto (as of this writing - I hope it doesn't go away). It is split into four parts, each with about 17 hours of music, and surprisingly including a PDF of the booklet. I'm a music hoarder, so I must admit that it is tempting, but I have to wonder if I should be acquiring yet another large set of mixed quality of repertoire that I already have in other performances by a variety of conductors. I can see this as being non-essential for those who have the 1960s and 1970s sets. I just checked Amazon, and those sets are available as mp3 downloads. I wonder why Presto doesn't have those sets. The music industry is quite a mystery these days. The last time I tried to buy digital downloads from Amazon, it was such a pain that I swore I would never attempt it again, and they don't seem to have CD quality FLAC, which I prefer. Maybe I'll take a closer look at the 1980s set. With the 1960s and 1970s sets obtainable right now only in an inferior form and with maximum hassle, the 1980s set could be worth having as a survey of Karajan's style. It might at least be worth separately buying the items that are top quality. Physical copies of these sets aren't really a viable option, as they are either unavailable or cost a bloody fortune. I've abandoned physical copies anyway due to the excessive space that they take up. Hopefully this is at least somewhat useful - these sets are technically available at present, albeit not necessarily in a form that people will want.

[@kaswit007]

Never expect Swastika remark! LOL! Even though I thought disc formation like hong kong action film studio logo at first time I see inside karajan style megaboxes.

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

it was also nice to be re-acquainted with some of the cover-art during these three surveys. For the most part DG were a marvel in this respect :they made a huge impact on me looking through their glossy catalogues in my early teenage years where most of it was out of my reach financially. The Bruckner cycle (frozen wing) and Mahler (rainbow motif) are particularly striking.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

The Bruckner always reminded me of winter road kill.

[@AloySandro-e4y]

Fantastic reviews of Karajan's '60s, '70s and '80s at D.G. I would like a review of the Karajan catalog on EMI and also the complete Klemperer Box on EMI. A greeting from Spain

[@davidaiken1061]

Thanks, Dave for an enjoyable, helpful and fair-minded series. Whether how far one likes the "Karajan sound" in general or in specific repertoire is largely a matter of taste. I hear Karajan's Mozart and Mendelssohn differently that you do, but I agree wholeheartedly about most of the other composers in his DG legacy. As far as his digital Beethoven cycle is concerned, I find it leaner and lighter than his other two DG cycles--a bit more like his first cycle for EMI with the Philharmonia. Just because I was curious about the almost universal critical rejection of this cycle, a few years ago I obtained an interesting set, "Karajan Conducts Beethoven," that includes his digital Beethoven Symphonies, his earlier, analog, set of the compoete overtures, the digital Missa Solemnis (more interesting, though not better sung than his earlier versions), plus a piano concerto cycle consisting of his early stereo effort with Eschenbach and (get this!) the rest with Weissenberg licensed from EMI/Warner. Quite a strange compilation, but in its way enjoyable. But it afforded me an opportunity to sample his final thoughts on Beethoven which are, to my ears, more like Toscanini than his two previous cycles for DG. I still thing his 1977 cycle is, overall, the most consistently satisfying, but the playing, as recorded, is on the heavy side.

[@bbailey7818]

I suppose what the French have is elan instead of Schwung. Since Karajan The 80s doesn't have his opera recordings we don't have to sit through his elan-less Carmen. His much earlier Vienna recording was elan-deprived as well but at least that had some great singing. His odd Merry Widow is oddly schwungless after the first ten seconds. It should have been much better because the Suppe overtures that fill out the cd edition I have are first rate. Go figure.

[@JackBurttrumpetstuff]

Your surveys were wonderful. Thanks. Given all the recorded duplication in his career, I wonder- What works do you wish he had actually gotten around to? I can’t imagine him doing early Mahler, but there were some big things you would think he would have recorded… more Shostakovich, maybe? Curious what you think.

[@folanpaul]

Hi David, Thank you for your detailed review of Karajan's 80s output. Your insights are very valuable and I found the disc-by-disc breakdown to be very useful. On a different note, I noticed that you briefly mentioned Johann Strauss' work in your review. This made me wonder if you have any plans to review the works of other "lighter" composers such as Lanner, the Strauss family, Ziehrer, Millocker, Lehar, Kalman, Stolz, as well as Walteufel and Lumbye (I use the word 'light' with due caution!). I understand that you may have touched on this type of output in the past when discussing the likes of Offenbach and Suppe, but I would be very interested in your thoughts on these specific composers and their output of polkas, galops, landler, and waltzes etc. I apologize if you have already covered this topic in previous videos, but if not, I think it would make for an interesting discussion. Best regards, Paul.

[@markmiller3713]

I liked the comments on the Saint-Saens "Organ Symphony"! I also find the cover art, quite bizarre - whatever that's supposed to be.

[@asheko]

Dear Mr. Hurwitz ! Do you mind doing a comparison Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker and Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra ? I see some similiarities : long time relationships, beautyful orchestra sound ( that vanished ( I think ), than the conductors departet ), great commercial sucsess, but the critics didn´t always like them ... I also wonder, if HvK was somehow influenced by american conductors ( Ormandy ? Stokowski ? Szell ? ) best greetings from Austria

[@dennischiapello3879]

I'm confused about the Death and Transfiguration recordings. I listened again to the disc you showed, and that is the one in which I can't hear the tam tam. But my old and now lost LP that paired it with Gundula Janowitz singing Four Last Songs had the tam tam to die for. But I don't know the dates and can't check.

[@jeffreymilarsky3246]

I spit out my Mint Milano when you talked about the design of the CDs in the box.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I love Mint Milanos. I'm so sorry I ruined one of them for you.

[@leestamm3187]

​@@DavesClassicalGuide Mint Milanos are one of the best "store bought" cookies I know. Definitely not to be wasted.

[@301268bmh]

I quite like the 80s Beethoven and Brahms cycles, in part because of the recorded sound which, as you say, was dodgy to start of with. Microphones are placed closer to the orchestra which enhances the impact and produces a less streamlined quality. Btw, it was during the 80s that Karajan stopped conducting with his eyes closed. Any insights on this?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

He finally wanted to see what he was doing?

[@mrkknsz]

These recordings must have been very popular back in the day as they keep popping up in charity shops on a regular basis. I think I've amassed around 20-30% of this box set over the past couple of years without any difficulty (and minimal expense). Some of the disks I bought were still in their original foil even!

[@TOONACEDRELA]

Re. The Sibelius tone poems remake. Am I right in assuming that the original 60's version of this line-up never made it onto CD? ...... except for its inclusion in the 60's big box?

[@federicorodriguez7222]

You should do a video on the IDEAL Karajan box, just one of the recordings of each work. That I think would be a rather long video but it would be interesting, not to mention useful as your reviews always are. And you can spare us the pain and tell which pieces never suited Karajan's style ever.

[@LekshmipathyBalaji-f1k]

Hi dave, is the mutter beethoven violin concerto worth buying?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

See reviews at Classicstoday.com

[@dmntuba]

Been waiting...OPEN THE GATES!!!!!

[@robertdandre94101]

I followed a lot and bought the karajan-digital discs when they came out. Most of them were ''correct'', some disappointing, in fact I only remember four which really appealed to me the most....: haydn's parisian, johann straussjr's waltzes, sr, offenbach's overtures (germanized yes but what a delight...!) and finally his parsifal. haydn's london disappointed me as well as the remake of beethoven's symphonies

[@ban9nas177]

You are the light of my life 🎉

[@jensguldalrasmussen6446]

Might the French word you were searching for in vain be 'panache' (along the lines of the German 'Schwung'?)?

[@gartenkauz2152]

Sorry, I did not understand the problem with his Mozart. Big Band Sound?

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

recalling Dave's earlier videos, it's more the gluitinous string sonorities, and interprative approach erring towards blandness.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, thank you. Merely "pretty."

[@jimcochran1408]

Great review. The first time I have ever heard Pratt and Whitney in a classical record review. Ha!

[@Warp75]

Much too much Karajan