10 ESSENTIAL CHALLENGING WORKS for BEGINNERS

These "10 Essential Challenging Works for Beginners" come in all different sizes, shapes, media, and styles. It's up to you to decide if you have the time and inclination to take them on--but you will be well-rewarded if you do. That much is certain. So be fearless. Take 'em on!
Handel: Giulio Cesare
Beethoven: Beethoven's Quartet No. 13 in B♭ major, Op. 130 (with Grosse Fuge finale)
Liszt: Fantasy and Fugue on the chorale "Ad nos, ad salutarem undam" (for organ)
Wagner: Tristan und Isolde
Mahler: Symphony No. 6
Sibelius: Symphony No. 4
Bruckner: Symphony No. 8
Bartók: String Quartet No. 4
Schoenberg: Pierrot Lunaire
Messiaen: Turangalila-Symphonie

[@richardwilliams473]

The finale coda of Bruckner s 8th is astounding!!!

[@GBearcat]

"This is challenging music for a beginner, wait a few years to listen to it when you're ready" -- yep, I got that advice back when I was a teenager too. I was asking older music majors what should be my first opera to listen to. "Carmen, Bohème, Traviata, Magic Flute," they said, "-- but NOT Wagner, definitely not Wagner, you're not ready for that!" So of course I rushed right out and bought the entire Ring, and totally loved it.

[@jules153]

Sibelius 4 took me the longest to get into of all his symphonies but boy was it worth the wait. An incredible piece of music 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@mhc2231]

These lists for beginners are all great -- but this may be the best of them all. Bravo for encouraging beginners to jump in the deep end. I remember seeing a video of the great modern dancer Bill T. Jones who was asked to improvise dances to various pieces of classical music (he was not told the list of works ahead of time). All went well until they put on the Grosse Fugue. He physically couldn't make his way through it. He stopped mid-way stating that the music was too raw and emotionally exposed, too painful and it really rattled him. He was shaking and couldn't continue. When I hear the piece now I always picture Jones trembling as he walked off the floor.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That's a great story!

[@falesch]

A power that only music can wield! This is touching.

[@marknewkirk4322]

"Open to the experience" - That's really what it's all about. Music exists in a meaningful way only in your mind. All the textbooks, all the international competition prizes, all the Album of the Year stuff is beside the point. Please don't miss out on so much that is worthwhile just because it doesn't grab you by the ears instantly. In the long run, the rewards are truly amazing.

[@coryjorgensen622]

Wow, great list! I wish I could go back and listen to the Grosse Fuge again for the first time. I had heard lots of Beethoven at that point, but it absolutely blew me away. Excellent "challenging" list!

[@marktanney3347]

Love that Messiaen. I have been listening to classical music for 60 years but I have missed so much. It's really impossible for a regular person on their own to figure out the vast supply of great composers, performers, conductors and recordings to wrap their arms around what is out there. I'll never catch up at this point, but that's life. I'm fine with that. At least I now have your channel to provide the guidance needed to make sure I only focus on the best of the best for as long as I still have ears. Thanks for providing this great service.

[@gooeyrhubarb1593]

This was an amazing talk for me. I love the organ. As a child, I only heard it once a year on a pier during summer holidays by the sea. Bach organ concertos blow me away! Some of the registers sound like choirs of woodwind. Incredibly moving. Can recommend BWV 592-596/ Simon Preston.

[@cliffordbaker4930]

The first music by Bruckner that I heard was the Eighth. I was not connecting with it until the Adagio began and I was simply enraptured by it and became a fan of his work. So, I think you are right to throw some challenges out there for people. You never know what will connect with people.

[@4554-c1v]

Another great video in the series Dave. The funny thing is that Giulio Cesare was my first Opera and one of the works that I listened to when I just got into classical music. The music and vocals are often very energetic and immersive which kept me hooked but I finished the opera in 2 sittings 😂

[@gooeyrhubarb1593]

You are an amazing guide. Thank you ❤️👏🏼

[@Allen_Brass_Banding-mp8jx]

Superb list, Dave. My brother from another mother!

[@robertmorris1808]

The first opera I attended (and stood through) was Tristan und Isolde at the San Francisco Opera in 1970, when I was 21 years old. While it is far from being one of my favorite operas, I'm happy to say that it did not discourage me from further musical adventures. My initiation into the joys of 20th century music (and Schoenberg in particular) came a few years later when I purchased, just because it looked interesting, an English-language version of Pierrot Lunaire with Cleo Laine as the singer/reciter. That led me to the original German version, which has become one of my favorite musical works. A little challenge can indeed lead to great rewards; there's lots of interesting music out there to be discovered.

[@ruramikael]

Great that you mention the "Ad nos...", I heard it in the Kaiser Wilhelm Gedächtniskirche in Berlin back in 1992, but there was too much reverberation in that modern church. It all became muddy (but the Naxos recording is great!). As for Mahler 6, I fell asleep when Ashkenazy conducted it in Copenhagen. Never had any problems with Bruckner 8.

[@laszlostankovics7926]

If i had to describe these great works in one word, Handel - beautiful, Beethoven Grosse Fuge - brutal, Liszt - complex, Wagner - monumental, Mahler - tragic, Sibelius - dark, Bruckner - dramatic, Bartók - special, Schoenberg - mystic, Messiaen - modern

[@MDK2_Radio]

I agree with Giulio Cesare being on this list, because the first time I saw it I was incomprehensibly bored - because I didn’t “get” baroque opera yet. This in spite of having been blown away by The Coronation of Poppea not long before. The point being that I wasn’t prepared for it. Once I understood what it’s supposed to be, I loved it. (It probably didn’t help that my first time the staging was dull as watching beige paint dry.)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Watching other colors dry isn't too exciting either. I hear what you're saying!

[@leestamm3187]

Good list, as ever. I'd say if they can make it all the way through Mahler 6 without cracking up, they're probably ready for most anything.

[@GastonBulbous]

I really enjoyed that video! ❤ About half the list consists of works that are new to me, so I have my homework. Watching this, meanwhile, reminded me of a couple of things I got into far too early in my classical explorations, before doubling back to absorb more of the standard repertoire. Chief among these were the works of Franck, including his Les Beatitudes, a long and oddball but fantastic oratorio that could essily fit on your list. Franck’s works led me into a deep dive into French music, including the works of the composer who would become my favourite, Berlioz. I also started collecting old Melodiya and Olympia CDs so I have a weird grounding in all the obscure Russian composers (gotta love Arensky!) and a strange taste for brassy old Soviet recordings and orchestras. In all, your advice is spot on. As a beginner, listen to what interests you, and everything else falls into place. (By the way, Dave, what did you think of the recording of Handel’s Julius Caesar that was reharmonized for the great bass voice of Norman Treigle?)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's a fine performance for what it is. I still enjoy it. As for strange Russians on Olympia, if you don't have it and can find it, give Gavril Popov a shot. It's pretty wild.

[@GastonBulbous]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks, I will!

[@rogergersbach3300]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Are you referring to Popov's 1st or 6th Symphony as wild, David? Or Overall his music is wild?

[@theosalvucci8683]

There's a lot of Gamelan in the Turangalila, too. I love the damned thing. It is the music of the spheres. Fifties and sixties science fiction sound tracks owe everything to it. I heard a story about Sibelius that he and his friends would play a drinking game where they would all spend time outside in the freezing cold of Finnish winter and then all but one guy would go back into the house. The guy left outside could not come back inside, until the others remembered who he was and called for him. The fourth is like being that guy left outside in the bitter cold.

[@notrueflagshere198]

I have listened to Tristan just once, many years ago. It was intense and insane. So far I have not tried again. i thought it was work of genius. Maybe I'll try again.

[@davidblackburn3396]

Just yesterday there were a lot more comments in this thread. Gee, I wonder what happened to them.

[@notrueflagshere198]

@@davidblackburn3396 KZbin works in mysterious ways. Usually, when I notice, it is my comments which disappear. I don't mean on this channel, just KZbin generally.

[@jameslee2943]

"Ad nos" is worth experiencing live at least once, even if you don't like Liszt, organ music or Liszt organ music. Hang on to the pew/chair for dear life and let the sound waves wash over you!

[@melissaking6019]

Tristan wasn't a challenging opera for me when I discovered it in my teens. I first heard it in the Carlos Kleiber recording starring the ravishing, magisterial Margaret Pryce as Isolde. Pryce's sound is so pure, almost without vibrato, and she's a fine actress. Kleiber's conducting is over the top in places, but mostly the score sounds beautiful. Too bad she didn't record Tristan with Jon Vickers, the best Tristan my ears have ever heard.

[@tkengathegrateful4844]

I was thinking Messiaen once you whipped out Schoenberg, but the work I had in mind was the "Quartet for the End of Time" instead of the Turangalila. If you made an 11-20 sequel, some of the Lloyd, Lajtha, or Harris symphonies that you introduced me to with your "Symphonies by the Numbers" series (I'm in the 8s now!) could be included. Hovhaness's "The Spirit of the Trees" would be in there too ... for me, anyway. Thanks!

[@mr-wx3lv]

Great list. I've always liked the finale to Bruckner 8. That coda is still something else to listen to, but the trumpet fanfares need to be defined otherwise it's just a blurr..

[@danlo5]

I only recently got into Mahler, and it was Tennstedt's live recording of the 2nd symphony with LSO that hooked me. I've since been going through all of Dave's videos on Mahler for recommendations, and have since listened to the 6th and 1st. The hardest part is finding time to listen. Definitely not the kind of music you want on in the background while at work.

[@MDK2_Radio]

Having only *really* gotten into Mahler myself (though being something of a fan of the 2nd for over 20 years), my trick was to listen while walking. I enjoy long walks so it works, though in the case of the 3rd I have to listen to the first movement at home first.

[@elizabethj8510]

For Mahler, I would set aside time late evening and either sat in a darkened room or painted. However, my best experience of listening to Tristan outside of an opera house was scrubbing the bathroom floor during a Met performance. It was an old apartment.

[@leestamm3187]

@@poturbg8698 It is the LPO. David gave it a glowing review when it was released back in 2010.

[@leestamm3187]

@@poturbg8698 LPO label, number LPO0044, originally released March 1, 2010.

[@smallbirdsongs]

Hello! I wonder if anyone would like to recommend a recording of Beethoven's 13th string quartet with the Grosse Fuge finale? Sincere thanks!

[@herbchilds1512]

Is Janacek considered "challenging?" I've always had a natural affinity for his well-known works such as Sinfonietta, Taras Bulba, and the Glagolitic Mass. But also for "Diary of One who Disappeared," his quartets and piano music, and his operas, too seldom heard. Is Janacek an acquired taste, or too far out for most listeners?

[@barrymoore4470]

I think most would argue that, with his scores respected as written, Janáček is more of an acquired taste than an immediate favorite. The composer's music has been described as "spiky", and many of his operas were modulated by the conductors when first appearing outside the Czech lands, to accommodate then prevailing international taste. In more recent times, of course, Janáček's original scoring has been honored, and he is widely recognized as a master.

[@rhonda8900]

Swedish Black Death Metal is challenging but these selections have not been - lol. I have made my way through all of these except the long pieces by Handel and Wagner. I really enjoyed the Beethoven and the Mahler. I liked the Organ selection but doubt I will listen to it often. I am just not warming up to Siblius and have not really liked any of the selections by him so far. The last four did not really stand out to my ears one way or another but I will try them again later on.

[@qnebra]

I love Grosse Fugue

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That's really not the point. I love it too.

[@qnebra]

@@DavesClassicalGuide It is challenging to listen, but still, I like it. And I am quite new to classical music itself.

[@grososiupaul8479]

Hi, Dave, could you do a top 1st Symphony 2end Symphony to 10th? I would like to see a fight between Mahler's Fifth and Beethoven's, or Ninth... You always compare conductors, how about composers?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I honestly don't think there's anything to be gained by that. I compare conductors because they are doing the same music. That's valid and interesting. With composers, each is an individual and the comparisons are pretty much meaningless.

[@grososiupaul8479]

Yeah, I used wrong the terms top and fight, what I would be interested to see is if there is some kind of e pattern of how to write your 1st Sympnony, Fifth... or Ninth which the composers followed consciously or unconsciously?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

There is no pattern at all.

[@barrymoore4470]

I had a friend, passionate and informed about music, who opined that Beethoven's second, fourth, and eighth symphonies are not on the same par with the composer's other six, and contrasted this with Mahler's nine complete and numbered symphonies, each one of which he acknowledged as a masterpiece.

[@masahiromihara1481]

This is a very interesting list. I think that Mahler 7th is more challenging than the 6th.

[@leestamm3187]

Mahler 7 is a challenge even for many experienced, long time listeners, which is why I would not include it on a beginner list.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not emotionally. Harmonically, for sure.

[@geertdecoster5301]

Gosh, that's a list that will put hair on ones chest. Sorry for the Groucho-ism! But... wow!

[@fred6904]

Tristan und Isolde works because Wagner is a wizard!