Repertoire: The IDEAL Beethoven String Quartet Cycle

[@andrewfearnley3388]

Hi Dave. I have been watching your channel for around a year now and have made many purchases based on your recommendations. Your choices are spot on. There is so much repertoire out there so your channel makes it so easy to make purchases. I won't buy box set symphonic works rather the separate symphonies by different conductors and orchestras which then make up the perfect collection. PS. Love your down to Earth no bullshit straight talking. The Mahler recommendations are played very loud in my classroom😂 Good luck with your channel and may it keep on growing. All the best from a damp Yorkshire in the UK.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you!

[@johnwright7749]

My absolute favorite for all 16 is the Takacs Qt. I grew up with the Budapest and heard them in college and got to meet them. They were wonderful, but so are the Takacs!

[@dianamcdougall9251]

I have the complete Beethoven string quartets by the Vegh Quartet, 1970's cycle, and I love their recordings. Lush, expressive, relaxed, and very passionately performed without being over-performed. I'm very satisfied with them.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Fair enough.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@sirsamfay99 No, actually, they don't lack those qualities.

[@siegfriedderheld7806]

As a young man, I loved orchestral and operatic music. Chamber music didn’t appeal to me until I attended a concert with the Guaranri Quartet. They began with the Beethoven “Harp” and finished with the Schubert “Death and the Maiden.” I had never experienced such passion and precision with 4 musician-I was hooked. I now own 4 sets of the complete Beethoven SQs and several sets of the late Schubert SQs. Please consider sharing your thoughts on Brahams’s chamber music. To me, his genius shows in the piano trios, piano quartets, and piano quintet more so that his quartets-just a personal opinion. Mike, aka Siegfried.

[@stpd1957]

The Quartetto Italiano box set is my favourite recording of the 16 quartets, it is fabulous.

[@michaelfurbank3504]

Fantastic review, thanks. Hans Keller has been immortalised if for nothing else but his infamous interview with Pink Floyd - "Why does it have to be so terribly LOUD!!!".

[@stevenklinden]

Oh, he's that guy. I did like Roger Waters's answer - "I don't suppose it has to be loud, we just like to play it loud" or something like that.

[@Warp75]

When he said that Keller might have well been 400 years old.

[@NN-df7hl]

"Completely honest in what it is," "nakedness of expression," "let's it all hang out," "lack of shame" -- the late quartets sound like a guide to self-acceptance. :) Btw, I saw your post down below that you "ain't talkin'" about Ebene Quartet. But I hope you do someday.

[@harinagarajan2296]

Superb post Mr. Hurwitz. My favorite is the complete cycle by the Vegh queartet (1952 recording). The Talich quartet is fantastic as well. Never paid attention to the Julliard quartet. I will try and get this. Many thanks. Hari

[@stevenmsinger]

Thanks, David. This is a good survey. I wondered how you could go through each individual quartet. It makes much more sense the way you did it. I admit I don't have strong feelings about the early quartets, but as much as I agree with your recommendations, I'd probably add the Budapest Quartet for the middle ones and either the Busch or Hollywood Quartet for the late ones. I know the sonics aren't as good, but those are some really special performances that contain insights I wouldn't want to do without. The Budapest version of the Razumovsky quartets is so muscular and powerful. I think the Hollywood Quartet is even better in the slow movements than the Vegh. The Busch is like listening in to another world, but we're splitting hairs. These are all amazing performances.

[@marnieesjolander1831]

Guarneri Quartet for the early ones. RCA has a 1969 set out and it is warm and clearly recorded. Yep, Quartetto Italiano for the middle. And for the late ones…Alban Berg Quartet! One the disc that has no.13, they recorded the original version (with the Grosse Fugue as the finale) and had the published finale after it. Wonderful rendition.

[@markmiller3713]

Thank you for this review. I think what I liked the best was your comment on the Julliard String Quartet: "..they took their time..." That's a good lesson for all of us, for anything really. Except if someone is having a stroke, then you want to be quick, but you get my point.

[@rafaelmijares369]

My absolute favourite for all of Beethoven's quartets is by far the Talich Quartet. They demonstrate an incredible coordination and balance between all 4 musicians. Also, this ensamble's rendering of the Grosse Fugue is absolutely sublime. The best interpretation of this fugue I have ever listened to.

[@fred6904]

Dear Mr Hurwitz! Thank you very much for making this talk. I also like the first theme in the first movement of op 59 no 1. By the way all three of op 59 quartets are amazing!. The intensity of feeling in the slow movement of op 59 no 1 is unparalelled in my view. Best wishes!

[@vKarl71]

Thank you, David! This was great to listen to and I've also enjoyed the comments very much. I agree with several who pick Budapest for their mono recordings of the middle quartets The Budapest Quartet had a sense of confidence, directness, naturalness - combined with a completely unforced tenderness. To me they play with a single consciousness and don't need to fuss over each phrase because they've so completely understood the music as a whole. It's hard to describe this feeling but there is a sense of inevitability at every moment and always a strong sense of the whole piece coming through each phrase, a holographic sense of unity, the connectedness of every note with every other note. But we're lucky to have so many different fine performances available on recordings.

[@parissimons6385]

Thanks very much, David. Really enjoying so many of your videos! Mahler symphonies, Beethoven symphonies, Shostakovich... I may be a masochist of sorts, but as a non-musician I rely on what I can hear in this music. And after listening to Beethoven's quartets on and off for over 50 years, I have a fondness for a number of quartet cycle sets, as well as some selected recordings of early, middle and late ones. My complete cycles include the Amadeus Quartet and Quartetto Italiano, as well as the Takacs, Emerson, and Prazak Quartets, plus two Tokyo Quartet cycles (one old and a newer one on Harmonia Mundi). All of them have their charms! Which I listen to partly depends on my mood, too. In addition, I have enjoyed the 'hip' Quatuor Mosaique playing all 6 of Opus 18, and a box of CDs of the Borodin Quartet playing a selection (but not all) of the cycle, and even have discs of the Miro Quartet playing the middle quartets. The most extreme Beethoven quartet CD I have is the Arditti Quartet playing the Grosse Fuge (mixed amongst other contemporary works). And of course, I have been thrilled by many of the live performances I have heard from many of these groups and others over the years, too!

[@elagabalus-imperator]

I otherwise would not have known where to begin. Thanks for the video. PS: interestingly, my KZbin will start offering examples of Beethoven's quartets shortly after your posting (must be those algorithms).

[@raycatellier2079]

I absolutely love the Quartetto Italiano. It is such a wonderful set and one of the most listened to sets of anything in my collection. I also really love the Takacs Quartet set for a different take. Including, a particularly great, kick ass Opus 135 (for the Takacs).

[@quinto34]

I have 14 or so cycles and have no distinct favorites..I listen to wonderful Elias live recordings these days, need to buy Julliard, Talich and Berg and I'll be set ;) I never get tired of these quartets

[@Don-md6wn]

My 2 favorite sets of the complete Beethoven quartets have been the Talich and the first Tokyo, with the Gewandhaus Quartet close behind. But now I'm working my way through the Alban Berg studio set that I bought recently and it is also superb. It's basically splitting hairs to pick among them. The Talich set seems to me to be on the introspective side and has the feel of listening to performances played in a living room. The other 3, particularly the Alban Berg, are more like performances projecting to a concert hall. You could buy the complete Talich, Tokyo, and AB cycles for around $75 total, which is kind of ridiculous. One thing to note is that with the Tokyo set (in an RCA slim box on 9 discs) you also get the quartet arrangement by Beethoven of his Op 14 #1 piano sonata and the Op 29 string quintet with Pinchas Zukerman playing the extra viola. I wouldn't put either of those works at a level with the Op 18 (or middle or late) quartets, but they're still enjoyable.

[@ThreadBomb]

I've made a playlist of the quartets, featuring selections from the FIRST cycles of the Alexander, Alban Berg, and Tokyo Quartets. There's some gold in them thar hills!

[@agathos7186]

My pick would be: op.18 -- Emerson Str. Q. (DG) op.59 -- Miro Q. (Pentatone) op.74 -- Juilliard Str. Q. (Sony; '60s) op.95 -- Miro Q. op.127-135 -- Juilliard Str. Q. Best complete recording, still: The Juilliards of the '60s. Uncompromisingly modern & neat -- and recorded very directly (close to the Microphone) --, yet with a discreetly old-fashioned sound of the instruments … wunderbar.

[@maudia27]

And it is time to launch the "However Award" for the best 2020 releases.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Love the concept!

[@ThankYouKiwi]

My favorite recordings of the Razumovsky Quartets has always been the Tokyo Quartet's. To me their playing feels a bit more gentle and calmer than most interpretations.

[@AlbertMena]

Totally agree! They have a sort of uncomplicated discipline and rigour to them that convey all sorts of elegant but deep emotions. They are my choice for the Razumovs for sure!

[@UlfilasNZ]

I agree. The first RCA set is my favourite, I don't understand why it's not mentioned more often. It's extremely satisfying to my ears. My favourite, along with Alban Berg and Quartetto Italiano.

[@Bezart34]

@@UlfilasNZ I also love the Tokyo Quartet's set - yes - the earlier RCA one. Also on my shelves are the Takacs, Juilliard (the set David highlights) and the Alban Berg, which was my intro set, way back in the 1990s. It's a great set, but after several years, I just wanted to hear more and varied interpretations.

[@ThreadBomb]

I thought the Tokyos were better in the late quartets.

[@robeken9579]

Thank you David for this excellent survey on this wonderful, wonderful music. Turns out I could have stopped buying after my third set. Hah! I'm now up to set no. 31! Silly, I know. But I love them all (well, almost). Always curious for new sets. The QI was my first set and immediately I was hooked. It's been too long since I have listened to them. I am going to listen to them in the weekend.

[@dennischiapello7243]

I came to chamber music relatively late, and the Italiano was my introduction to Beethoven (for the Rasumovsky group, and the late A Minor and C# Minor. New to the peculiar sound world of string quartets (as opposed to the easy-on-the-ears string orchestra,) I felt that I was taking the plunge with the Italiano, whose tone strikes me as the opposite of voluptuous. But the challenge certainly paid off.

[@piano2750]

I have been enjoying the Guarneri, as good as any and my favourite at the moment (AND I have Juilliard live, Hungarian (both), Vegh (both) and Tokyo first recording and all the Busch they did.

[@joshgrumiaux6820]

Biased American here, but I hope you've got the Guarneri, Cleveland, and Tokyo among that stack of boxes. If there was one classic reference recording to own of the complete cycle, it would have to be the Guarneri's first go-round on RCA. The Cleveland Qt. can't be beat for beauty of sound, true to Telarc sonics (and their Op.18s are something special). The cheap Tokyo Qt. box (American in style if not country of origin) on RCA is amazing (not sure if that was their 1st or 2nd Beethoven cycle). It's a crime that Phillips hasn't re-released the Guarneri's 2nd Beethoven cycle in a box (their late quartets along with Opp.74+95 are THE best) and RCA STILL hasn't released the Cleveland's first Beethoven cycle on CD (or any of their dozen+ LPs, for that matter....)

[@robeken9579]

The 2nd Guarneri Quartet cycle of Beethoven String Quartets (on Philips) has been reissued in 2008 by Brilliant Classics. It is still available (used) via Amazon.

[@porcinet1968]

This was a lot of fun to watch as I am (gleefully) a Beethoven obsessive. I have a lot of different complete cycles and I rate that early Juillard set very highly as I really admire their playing just generally. The Takacs cycle on Decca and Alban Berg quartet cycles are also marvelously intense. The Italiano quartet version of the Harp is SO beautifully played. I want to put a big good word in for the Artemis Quartet whose playing I find very clarifying because their intonation is so good, even in the climaxes with the trills in the Grosse Fuge they manage to make it not quite the ugliest piece ever written!

[@porcinet1968]

just started listening again to the Italiano Quartet version of the Harp, the mini violin concerto in the coda of the first movement, one of the most perfect resolving/culminating passages in all of music (IMHO), is so well done. It feels like you have arrived somewhere.

[@micolsen9824]

Great video. Got my quartet juices flowing once again.

[@maudia27]

Many years (decades...oh god) ago...the first big box I bought in CD format was The Tallich box - I was hearing for the first time the Beethoven's quartets - and was luck to choose this box.

[@williamrobinson6059]

Same with me for the Mahler symphonies... Bernstein 3 (DG), MTT 7 (LSO), Boulez + Bernstein (Sony) Mahler 1, Solti 6, and the Ozawa/Boston box. All from personal interest and talks with my band director and English teacher. Beginners luck!

[@zenonorth1193]

Thanks for this posting! I enjoy your videos so much. I didn't initially with the first couple I watched. That was for 2 reasons: 1. I didn't fully get your humour at the time (particularly your use of hyperbole and sweeping generalizations) and 2. These were record reviews written by someone other than me (I'm referring to the record reviews I write in my head!) After watching more I've come to really enjoy them. As a piano-player and choral conductor, it's really interesting to hear someone talk about orchestral repertoire with (where appropriate) a particular accent on percussion. Very educational! Best wishes from me and my cat (Dunbar) to you and your cat.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you.

[@brithgob1620]

Your viewers may want to supplement their Beethoven Quartet collection with what was for me a happy recent discovery. I was pleasantly surprised when I finally got around to listening to Beethoven's String Quintet, Op 29. I have the Guarneri Quartet CD.

[@ThreadBomb]

For the string quintet op.29, I would recommend either the Fine Arts Quartet (with the op.104 quintet arranged from the 3rd piano trio), or the Nash Ensemble (with the op.4 quintet arranged from the early wind octet). But I must confess I haven't heard the Guarneri recording.

[@johnoconnor683]

Great post! I agree about the Julliard, Italiano, Vegh, and Talich. But the Takacs and the Budapest (especially their Sony mono set)? These are really great cycles.

[@johnoconnor683]

PS Looking forward very much to future videos on Beethoven's quartets.

[@jacquesracine9571]

Takacs +1

[@jeremyberman7808]

I would choose the Quartetto Italiano for the Early Quartets (although I enjoy their Middle Quartets too). I'll go with the mono recordings of the Middle Quartets with the Budapest Quartet. For the Late Quartets, I choose the Busch Quartet. Recordings from the 30s, I know. But really excellent readings which I think truly "get" the feeling of those difficult pieces to play and understand.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't find them difficult to understand at all--certainly they are easier than Op. 18, in my view.

[@murraylow4523]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Suppose it depends on what parameters are supposed to be "difficult". But your view is provoking me to listen to OP 18 more to sense why. By the way, what a shame the Busch Quartet didn't leave us Haydn recordings (as far as I'm aware).

[@Wolfcrag85]

I enjoy the Hungarian String Quartet cycle on EMI, from the 60's. What's your opinion about this one? Thank you.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I"m not commenting until I do another talk on the best cycles. All I can say is that if you enjoy it, then that's what matters most.

[@johnhopfensperger3843]

I got the 3cd set of the Emerson quartet playing late Beethoven when I was a kid, and now that’s how I expect the music to sound. The Talich quartet is just too refined for me in this music.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

So let me get this straight...whatever you hear first is how it has to sound for the rest of your life? That is rather sad, I think.

[@rolandonavarro3170]

Hi, dear Hurwitz: I am not very familiar with chamber musics, but I enjoy so much Budapest Beethoven Quartet cycle. A friend of mine who has an studio recording made the transfere from Lp to digital and gave it to me. I don't know if it exists in the market. Thanks for the post. Very instructive.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It has been released on CD, if you're curious, but it is a very fine cycle, so you are in a very good position.

[@saraband2004]

Hagen string quartett completed the recording of all late Beethoven quartets by two different labels over the years. I think Hagen is the best. It is sharp, fresh and exciting. It is also pretty close to the score.

[@murraylow4523]

I really like the Talich - a couple of years ago I did a comparative listening to the Op 131 Quartet across various sets I had and their finale was the most exciting, somewhat to my surprise! Of course, I haven't heard all the sets out there. On the Busch Quartet, at least for the late Beethoven performances that are justly revered, I just checked and you can get the big Busch box on Warner on Amazon Uk for less than 25 pounds! (16 discs) You get these amazing Beethoven performances (Razumovsky 3 is there also, and Op 95, but oddly not Razumovsky 1, presumably some licensing thing). You also get acres of other really great music making, in Schubert and Brahms especially: the Schubert "Death and the Maiden" and the Brahms Clarinet Quintet, in particular, are so in the zone of being the best performances. Fantastic bargain and so much pleasure - the sound is old, but clear, and to my ears really is just fine.

[@NN-df7hl]

I was put off by the description of Talich being very "refined" and making the Grosse Fuge sound almost "beautiful." Not sure if the Fuge is meant to be either of those things. Still, I am curious and will have to give them a whirl.

[@micolsen9824]

3:21 ....but it should happen! I would love to see a 15 (16) quartet list. I'd be so 😊

[@zaoria123]

Always great to hear your recommendations, David. I recently bought the Janacek QTs by Talich based on your recommendation and I absolutely enjoy it. So thanks for that too! I'm happy to hear you mention three of my very favorite String Quartet sets, Julliard, Italiano and Vegh (stereo.) I don't have the Talich, but based on their Mozart and Janacek sets, I just might need to get it. One other thought, have you considered doing a video on culling? I imagine you've had to cull your collection numerous times and I'd love to hear anyy tips you have.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Culling! Oh, the pain...

[@ThreadBomb]

@@DavesClassicalGuide The big problem for me is just what to do with the bodies.

[@DC-fx7uq]

Excellent comment regarding the playing of the Quartetto Italiano (and Claudio Arrau). The Italiano set is my favorite but since there's no repeat it would be Early - Alban Berg; Middle - Tokyo; Late - Italiano. I'll definitely give a listen to the Talich per your recommendation.

[@kend.6797]

There is a box that recently came out with the Smetana Quartet on supraphon that is on my list of items to purchase. I do not know the performances, and so I look forward to checking them out.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They are wonderful. I was considering them too.

[@kend.6797]

@@DavesClassicalGuide thanks for letting me know. I will be purchasing that set shortly.

[@indranilpoddar7195]

@@kend.6797 Wow was hoping for a hint on the Smetana Qt cycle...ordered from the usual sources online in the UK...I Love the old Vienna Konzerthaus Qt and as for op 59 no 1, my sentimental favourite the Vlach Qt on Supraphon with a fine op 18 cycle. I somehow never warmed to the Juilliard approach in the early quartets...exciting sure but I crave for more warmth...

[@Clementkouroukis]

Dear David, please do a review for ‘THE BEST’ Beethoven quartet cycle. There are so many cycles that need to be spoken about! Thank you.

[@michaelhartman8724]

It's a crime that Sony never released the Julliard 1966 Bartok quartets on cd. I still have to listen to the vinyl. (How about doing the Bartok quartets...?)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They were released on CD.

[@oldfogeymusic4248]

…and, last time I checked, they’re still available as digital downloads from Presto. Wish the same could be said for the same ensemble's early-'70s versions of the Debussy/Ravel and the Schubert Quintet In C, both of which were passed over for "all-digital" '80s remakes that couldn’t capture the spirit of the earlier versions.

[@iraeich]

What about the Yale Quartet for the late quartets?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

What about them?

[@lawrencerinkel3243]

I like the Juilliard and Talich, but also the Takacs a lot too. Dislike the Italiani. But for the lates, my favorite is the Yale Quartet for its beautifully judged tempos and patrician musicianship.

[@michaweinst3774]

You should do the Shostakovich quartets next! (Not necessarily ideal cycles though)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

There are no bad cycles. Take you pick. I think I would rather talk about individual works in this case.

[@quinto34]

Borodin!

[@Bezart34]

@@DavesClassicalGuide The Eder Quartet set (Naxos) is fabulous! Excellently recorded, too.

[@mathersdavid5113]

I have the original Calliope release of the Talich set. It has some of the worse audio I have heard on CD. This completely undercuts the otherwise fine playing. I understand that the newer release has improved on the metallic quality of the original but it is still not at the audiophile level.