Repertoire: The BEST Beethoven Fourth Symphony

This is probably Beethoven's least popular, most misunderstood symphony, but it is no less masterful than the "Eroica" (No. 3) or the Fifth. From a purely technical point of view, it represents Beethoven's full maturity as a symphonist, while its expressive radiance, muscular energy and feelings of happiness and contentment mark it out as unique among its companions. Here's a brief guide to the work's special qualities, and the recordings that realize them most effectively.
Musical Examples courtesy of Supraphon Records

[@debbie94510]

Thank you for this. The 4th has always been my favorite of the Beethoven symphonies!

[@b1i2l336]

I love the Fourth. Bruno Walter's stereo remake is my all-time favorite, but all your choices are A-1, as per usual. Lorin Maazel shared with me a story about how he was called in by the VPO to take over performances of this symphony from a petulant and infuriated Carlos Kleiber, who drove the orchestra nearly mad by endlessly rehearsing that motif you mentioned in the slow movement, and they never got to his satisfaction, causing his abrupt departure. Maazel heard what had happened, and the first thing he did was call for a rehearsal of the slow movement. He started by having them repeat that motif and telling them that no, they were not together. The orchestra was nearly beside themselves until he said "Gentlemen, you've got it wrong: You must sing to yourselves 'Maa-ZEL, Maa-ZEL, Maa-ZEL' as you play it! They then erupted in uproarious and appreciative laughter, and the concerts went without a hitch.

[@andreashelling3076]

Its only Maazel who could have done such thing, LOL

[@woomichen1378]

The..rese...The..rese...Maa..zel...Ma..azel...haha...I love this anecdote.

[@chlee3831]

A great and funny anectode

[@jacobstarling734]

Thankyou so much for all these engaging repertoire surveys! I'm an 18 year old college under-grad who's only just getting into classical music, and these videos have been so helpful for me in building my collection. I look forward to many happy decades of listening to Beethoven's 4th.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You are so welcome!

[@andreashelling3076]

As an orchestral musician I must say this in an terribly fun piece to play as well, thanks to the humor and refinement B put in there as...

[@ang_gguENT]

*Great*

[@corgansow7176]

@@andreashelling3076 kind of depends. I would imagine its a nightmare for string players to play, especially the fourth movement

[@michaelhartman8724]

question asked of Mozart: "What sounds worse than a flute?" Mozart: "two flutes!"

[@classicalperformances8777]

Actually it's cherubini who said that

[@cpeters6494]

I need to mention another fabulous 4th that's often overlooked: Konwitschny's. His Beethoven cycle with the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig is one of those obscure ones that surprise everyone who hears it, and the fourth is perhaps the absolute highlight of the cycle. Lean and muscular to the max, just like you described your other favorites in the video, yet never heavy. In fact, it sounds more "modern" than many other, more famous recordings that came later. Konwitschny also gives the music a wonderful vocal quality, no doubt helped by his background as a great opera conductor. You can really hear the dedication that went into the playing and conducting. Maybe it had something to do with the recording being a bit of a prestige project for the GDR. Philips was invited to the other side of the iron curtain, one of the first big east-west collaborations in the classical music industry.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Very true, all of it!

[@jaystone4816]

I've always loved the Beethoven 4th .Thanks for giving me even more to love about it.

[@estel5335]

It's happy! Yes! That's why I adore Nos. 2, 4, 6 & 8! My favourites so far are Kletzki/Supraphon (Good Lord! The wind & string sections are pure bliss in my ears! It's singing and frolocking! HOT HOT HOT!), Vänskä's/BIS (crystal clear textures, almost chamber-esque), Haitink/LSO (totally surprised me. Great textures, really poignant, passionately played) Böhm is a really intriguing pick, especially for me since I really adore his Schubert 5 which has a similar singing, happy nature.

[@josecarmona9168]

Böhm's symphony box (complete Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart and Schubert cycles) is absolutely amazing. I recommend it to you wholehearted.

[@neilcameronable]

Thanks so much for giving the 4th some much needed love.Its always been my go to Beethoven Symphony in times of trouble.And dare i say i love it much more than 3 or 5.Its Beethoven saying "Hi the names Beethoven heres my card".

[@nicholasjschlosser1724]

It is such a wonderful, beautiful work. I remember being surprised years ago when I looked at my ipod and noticed that the 4th was the Beethoven symphony I listened to the most. I never consciously thought of it as my favorite, but my subconscious obviously knew better. Such an underrated, unjustly neglected work (thanks a lot Schumann)! My personal favorite recording is Bernstein's with the NYPO. It shares the same qualities as his Haydn recordings: propulsive, spontaneous, humane, and just plain exciting.

[@johnmontanari6857]

Thanks for the Jochum, which is superb. Moreover, thanks for the frequent reminders of what a great conductor he was. I've shared the Walter rehearsal cut with my fellow choristers after we've lazily triplitized dotted rhythms like this. Even for the pros, it's difficult to maintain the energy and focus to stay on top of such details.

[@d.mavridopoulos66]

The second movement, when performed well, is one of my favourite pieces of music. Really inspired.

[@classicalperformances8777]

Symfono

[@mercedes932]

It still baffles me that the fourth is still so underperformed (in fact I fear that it would turn up even less if it were not for the sake of completeness on cycles) and so unpopular. When I first listened to it in my youth I preferred it over the "Eroica" and indeed still do. I think that the culture surrounding these symphonies has built up the reputations of the fifth and third to such an extent that people almost feel "obliged" to like them the most (thereby overshadowing the fourth) and yet, as you rightly point out, they are no more technically mature or intricate than the fourth itself. I am glad you gave it the proper respect and praise that it deserves!

[@christophersmith6841]

I know David that you're a fan of Szell's Beethoven, and I loved the drive, energy and punch of Szell's 4th, 7th and 8th. They're the ones that really stand out for me. There's a CD that couples Szell's 4th with the 7th, and both are absolutely first rate. Essential listening at a bargain price!

[@JohanHerrenberg]

Beethoven will be glad with such a champion. Another marvellous video!

[@pierrevigna]

I love the fourth. For its organic consistency that you describe so well, and for its wonderful rythm. I discovered the symphony through Carlos Kleiber (the Orfeo CD, and then the video with the Concertgebouw). But now, the one I really love to come back to is Skrowaczewski. His overall set of Beethoven symphonies is very enjoyable, but the 4th I think is really fabulous. Pierre

[@Sulsfort]

I bought the single CD of Skrowaczewski's recording (coupled with the first). It's a comparably modern recording - concerning interpretation _and_ recording. The tempos are quite swift. The Adagio might be slower for my taste, but Skrowaczewski doesn't destroy its character. And the orchestra is recorded quite clear and detailed, which makes it essential for me. Perhaps the sound of the orchestra isn't perfectly blended. At least there is a moment in the Scherzo (which is repeated), where the oboe sticks out in a slightly irritating way.

[@Sulsfort]

Ok, I was wrong about the tempo, Skrowaczewski chooses for the Adagio. It's almost 10 minutes. Only Herbert Kegel takes more time with ten and a half.

[@karlevans8200]

Thanks Dave. After your advocating this symphony so warmly, I can't wait to hear it again with the benefit of your advice.

[@ChristianP06]

My favourite Beethoven symphony!

[@q1.280]

I have to go with Paavo Järvi/DKB here: very muscular and energetic, and the finale, although very fast, isn't muddled at all and played with great virtuosity and excitement. And the timpani are amazing, especially in the live version!

[@chlee3831]

On the advice from Dave from this video, I loaded the whole Bohm Beethoven set. I'm thoroughly enjoying Bohm's Fourth. Superb sound and musicianship. Thanks Dave.

[@robertseath3133]

I have enjoyed the Toscanini and Klemperer in the past and look forward to exploring your other suggestions. Thank you for highlighting the qualities of this wonderful symphony.

[@gabep6848]

I absolutely LOVE the 4th as well as the 8th and it boggles my mind why the 4th is so overlooked. I too am not a huge fan of the 3rd. Love these videos so much and they make my mornings so much better!

[@petersommer4522]

That opening actually reminds me of the opening bars of Haydn's Creation. Minor key mystery with legato and staccato, that goes on a good stretch.

[@carlconnor5173]

I’ve listened to the 4th quite a few times since first watching this video. And I appreciate it more each time. The Haydn extrapolation (if that’s the right word) is right on! The 4th is almost like a Haydn Symphony explosion. I hear quite a bit of Haydn’s influence on Beethoven in other works as well. Some of Mozart’s too, of course. But mostly Haydn.

[@AlexMadorsky]

Sublime, masterful, misunderstood - you've selected very fitting adjectives for this very wonderful symphony. I'll go with two Ks here - the delightful Kletzki we fortunately have samples from, and the Klemperer because it has similarly characterful woodwind performances. I've actually never heard the Jochum, but it sounds like a true powerhouse - that will be next on my list when I keep on listening!

[@jimyoung9262]

David I bought the Kletzki cycle after seeing you recommend it on so many of your Beethoven videos and it's been a good one!

[@saltyfellow]

Just heard one of kletzki recordings and my God the sound is so amazing! The basses are so powerful and defined!!!

[@patrickhows1482]

Another splendid talk on my favourite Beethoven symphony. Where else can you get such a marvellous combination of energy, joy and lyricism? I first got to know no 4 through the Jochum recording that DH recommends on a DG Heliodor LP 43 years ago, the friendly, helpful manager of the classical LP department of my local music shop (remember them?) recommended it, saying it was better than any in stock, and knowing I was on a limited budget was less expensive. It arrived about a week later and it blew me away with its beauty. Beethoven wrote it a creative peak in his life, look at this clump of masterpieces: Op 57 Piano Sonata in F minor-'Appasionata' Op 58 Piano Concerto No 4 in G major Op 59 The Three Razumovsky Quartets Op 60 Symphony no 4 Op 61 Violin Concerto in D major. I have the Böhm symphony box too, I am about to listen to it.

[@josecarmona9168]

I love the 4th. I have always thought that is the energetic joyful other side of the energetic darkness-to-light-journey 5th. And I quite agree with your opinion about Böhm's recording: it's absolutely wonderful!! And yes, it's surprising to find this joy and playfulness in the germanic Karl Böhm, but then I remember his smiling and singing Mozart and Schubert and everything seems just logic.

[@pokerandphilosophy8328]

Isn't it equally surprising to find this much joy and playfulness in the germanic Beethoven? ;-)

[@cayrephilippe2416]

Thank you for this analysis which enabled me to know why the Fourth has always been my favourite Beethoven symphony. As far as I'm concerned, Bohm's comes first. I couldn't agree more.

[@artistsf1]

great comment. I, too, loved - as in LOVED, felt it in my heart - this particular video. I have always felt that the standard 'Beethoven in a less than magnificent mode' regarding the 4th and the 8th was way off base. In this short clip, with good wit and lots of clear examples, Hurwitz helped turn that fallacy on its ear. There are NO small Beethoven symphonies. I love THE FOURTH.

[@fred6904]

Hello everybody. Do not forget to listen to Beethoven's piano trios. They include some of his greatest music. Best wishes Fred from Sweden

[@melodymaker135]

Dave, I LOOOVE your opening talk about how Sad is easy and Happy is underrated. Totally applies to rock/pop music too, which is the field I practice in.

[@ammcello]

Awesome explanation of t motives/unity/bass line etc ... love it! I’m not sure you mentioned, but Berlioz thought that the slow movement of the 4th was the best movement of any Beethoven symphony. The ingenious use of developing/double variation, surprise and key moments, purely genius. My favorite of the 9 symphonies!!!!

[@s28101]

Thank You so much for this, and the about 700 other great videos. I love and adore the 4th, and your talk and suggestions are great. For me it is not so important if the 4 th is better or worse than the others. I won't be without any of them. But I could suggest a nickname for the 4th, the Finished symphony. But of course it is not from Finland. Maybe I miss the Szell, but not so much the Kleiber. Few month ago I played the Kleiber version with the Concertgebouw, my wife looked at me, with angry eyes, he is joking. And right she was again 😊when he started the 7 th, she left the room. I stopped the player, and she and her good Ears comes back. The 4th is a great number in symphonies. Beethoven, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler, Sibelius, Nielsen, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich. All high on my list.

[@johnmarchington3146]

I adore the fourth and have always felt it hasn't been given the credit it richly deserves. I have all the Hiatink LSO SACDs of the symphonies, and I have to admit that some of them are rather less than ideal , but when I first heard his fourth I thought WOW! I agree with you entirely that the coupling of 4 and 8 is the highlight in the set

[@marcelobriones6551]

I just heard back-to-back the 4th with Böhm/Vienna vs Jochum/Berlin. The Jochum version is stunning. Although the DG Jochum box contains several MONO recordings this 4th is in glorious STEREO. Don't think twice grab the Jochum/Berlin version ASAP. It is worth every dollar.

[@artistsf1]

Thank you, David. I have been listening to you for over a year - plus - and have been stretched into greater awareness in so many areas of music, regarding both the composers/pieces and the many performances available. This presentation is, for me, one of the best of the best of the best. I long ago dumped this 'slender greek maiden betwixt two norse giants' rubbish and knew THE FOURTH! as A BEETHOVEN SYMPHONY - and one that I prefer over the Eroica, though I have kept that heresy to myself. Everything you offered on the structure, the play of rhythm and texture, the idea of gesture, were things I sorta kinda knew internally but had never tried to articulate, nor would I have with the clarity, insight, and as much simple appreciation and reverence as I heard from you here. I did listen immediately after to the Böhm Vienna recording and loved it. and THEN, followed that with the Blomstedt (I sang chorus under him here in SF way back when) Blomstedt and Dresden Staatskepelle - and the sun appeared and the world came into balance for me. Everything you mention; the deliciousness of the woodwinds, the balance of high and low, ie a very present bass section, tempi which allow one to hear the music, the size and thrust of the writing, the endless playful nuances that round out that size - this is not a little brother to the better known symphonies it is a full on big deal of a piece. That longish moment with the tympani, leading back to the recap was miraculous and that magical second movement is suddenly one of my favorite movements in the entire cycle. Thank you.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank YOU!

[@jimyoung9262]

Your "happy" thumbnail on this video is hilarious

[@haroldvail3343]

Bohm won me over immediately years ago when I heard how he had the underlying thump-thump-thump whacking away under the crescendo at about 3:10 in the first movement. I've never heard it so prominent anywhere else, and it just underlines the relaxed good nature of the performance. Bohm had a lot of recordings like that - odd that his photos were almost always so severe.

[@martinhaub6828]

Another reason not to take the finale too fast: those wickedly difficult bassoon solos which have been fumbled by some great players.

[@hwelf11]

I've seen the Schumann quote translated as "a slender Greek maiden between two Nordic giants." Liszt said something similar about the middle movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight" Sonata, calling it "a flower between two abysses."

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Or the crack between two butt cheeks.

[@rbmelk7083]

While I like a lot of Schumann’s output (mostly the stuff that doesn’t get played all the time), I question his musical criticism. He said of Lachner’s Sixth Symphony, “a masterly order and clarity, a lightness and euphony. In a word, it is so mature and well-wrought that we may safely accord the composer a place near his favorite model, Franz Schubert, compared to whom he falls short in variety of invention but at least equals in talent for instrumentation.” I cannot find a performance of this particular symphony, but if it is anything like some his others that I have heard, it is likely pretty dull and lifeless.

[@hwelf11]

@@rbmelk7083 But he did hit the nail on the head at least once with his review of a set of variations on Mozart's "la ci darem la mano" by a young little-known Polish composer ("hats off, gentlemen - a genius!")

[@bigg2988]

@@hwelf11 The less wordy, the better?..

[@artistinbeziers7916]

Thanks Dave, for such an illuminating survey of one of my fav. LvB symphonies, and one of the first ones I became familiar with in my burgeoning love for classical music as a young teen in the 1970s, through acquiring a vinyl of Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt and the VPO! Yeah - weird, I know! Klemperer - I think he "nails it" too... I look forward to, and hope you'll do a survey of symphonies 1 & 2 - perhaps as a "buy-one-get-one-free" presentation..... 2 in 1.

[@yoshiono5366]

I vote for Schmidt-Isserstedt, whos is even better than Boem

[@melodymaker135]

Okay, now you’re really rocking me as you talk about proportion between movements in larger works. Some of my favorite classical pieces (hell, some of my fave composers - oh hey Tchaikovsky) almost completely lack this quality. And the music is so great that I put up with the flawed proportions. Glorious exceptions: Mozart 40 and 41, Beethoven 7, Schumann 4, Dvorak 7 (and maybe 8 and 9), Brahms 3 and 4, Prokofiev 5… nothing by Berlioz or Mahler as great as they are, probably nothing by my beloved Tchaik except maybe the 6th. Anyway, thanks for getting me back into Beethoven 4, it’s been a while!

[@edopetti]

The Peter Maag recording on Arts is another outstanding performance in my opinion. It has a wonderful, long-breathed singing line in the Adagio and two genuinely ebullient outer movements. The highlight of that cycle, also recorded sound-wise.

[@rsmickeymooproductions4877]

I love Paavo Jarvi in the 4th. A modern recording so punchy. The excitement is released in the 4th movement to the max with every bit of the orchestra being heard. It is nimble and energetic. The music is bold and with some absolute brilliant sound engineering thrown in.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Agreed!

[@classicalperformances8777]

The orchestra deserves a lot 9f the credit here!

[@steve.schatz]

I laughed my way through the first 3 minutes. Wonderful Dave.

[@carlconnor5173]

I just heard a recording by Muti that I enjoyed. It may be what you’d consider very good but not great. Anyway, as much as I love the 6th, and as much as I’d say the 9th is incomparably his greatest, the 4th has become my favorite. “Athletic” IS the perfect word for it. Those gestures you refer to are so entertaining. And I find it to be his most tightly knit and the most interesting of his Symphonies. I’m going to have fun listening to the other recordings you recommend that I haven’t yet!

[@alessandrodimeo6570]

Wow, I am proud of myself. When I, as a dilettante, tried to explain the fourth symphony to a friend who is a professional musician and teacher, I said to him that it was remarkable, because different than usual it is a Beethoven symphony that is happy from beginning to end, guess I was right!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

👍!

[@alessandrodimeo6570]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for always being enthusiastic about classical music!

[@robj7386]

i dunno, the beginning of 1st movement is pretty foreboding and menacing, but then happy

[@markstenroos6732]

My favorite Beethoven symphony, and a piece I never tire of hearing. You recommend Toscanini - I am a big fan of AT, but I have yet to hear a transfer of his B4 where the exposed bassoon solo in the Finale is comfortably audible. Any suggestions? I currently have it only as part of the second issue of the Complete AT on RCA.

[@MarauderOSU]

I appreciate this symphony more thanks to Bruno Walter. :) BTW, speaking of him, I just finished listening to that entire big box set. (It took me three weeks.) Is there any chance you'll do a talk about it in the future?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I reviewed it on ClassicsToday.com.

[@micolsen9824]

Love the fourth, thank you, Dave for this video. I wonder if you'll ever do a worst recordings of the eroica...could be 😊 fun.

[@ayethein7681]

Thank you. I always rated the 4th highly, but your talk raised its' stature quite a bit more.

[@stuartclarke4683]

I don't agree that sad/tragic is 'easy'. Melodrama is easy. Saccharine is easy. But 'good' sadness is difficult. Of course you're right to say that convincing triumphant happiness is still more difficult. Have always loved this symphony - and yes, I do play it more often than the Eroica. Thanks again for your time and efforts - this page is pretty unique.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

OK, maybe I was exaggerating just a bit for the sake of the point...

[@stuartclarke4683]

@@DavesClassicalGuide No problem. Loved the Toscanini. I'm also a big fan of his Eroica. I'd say that was the definition of 'muscular'. There's one from the 1930s I find tremendously exciting. I've always enjoyed Harnoncourt's 4th too. Love the Klemperer. Yeah, bass lines!

[@carlconnor5173]

Very illuminating!

[@Nyssa337]

I love the fourth! The finale could easily be an overture to an opera buffa. Many great versions but I love Mackerras/Royal Liverpool the best.

[@301268bmh]

One can certainly hear those base lines in the 3rd movement in Giulini's performance with the La Scala Philharmonic (also in his performance with the VPO, which is available on KZbin).

[@HassoBenSoba]

Totally agree with your assessment of this greatest of symphonies. When I started learning Beethoven's 9, at age 14...armed with my Schirmer piano reduction and the RCA Toscanini set... I IMMEDIATELY found myself drawn to #'s 2, 4, and 8 (already knew the 6th from Disney's "Fantasia")..much less so by 1,3,5, and 9 (but 7 was always cool). So what makes us all tick, I wonder? For me, the Eroica is shock and awe, the 4th is True Love! I'll check out Haitink and Bohm. LR

[@ruramikael]

The slow movement requires a good conductor, it can fall flat.

[@michaelstearnes1526]

Just an honorable mention: Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt V.P.O.

[@carlconnor5173]

The Toscanini is fabulous. The sound is surprisingly clear, even with the ambient noises. Just great. The Klemperer is a tad too slow for me. But you’re right, Dave: he makes up for it with clarity of sound. (I can’t help but be reminded of his brother Werner, who played the hapless Colonel Klink on Hogan’s Heroes. Quite a good actor in serious as well as comedic roles). I think I’ve listened to the Bohm at least twice already. I’m going to give it another listen to decide if it’s ‘the one’ for me.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Werner was his son.

[@carlconnor5173]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Oh.

[@Lange10we]

Wow. Your best and that is saying a lot

[@danielo.masson353]

Spent 1 hour - with pauses and rewinds - listening to this enlivening video. B4 a work I always found difficult to listen or 'understand'. I mean I 'sensed' a little the relationship between the movements without direction or meaning and knocking my head with that idea it was not 'quote'. My simplistic 'take" (I mean before your enlightenments) on the introduction was to relate it to the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata (which is may be a little a more lengthy morbid albeit impressionistic introduction to the quickening, may I say after you, gesture of two following). Also, live in Berlin for B4, seated by two well-to-do ladies who went on their conversation during the whole introduction under Rattle lost all of it when I tried my attention. But one lady told me so it was ok, since not Karajan ("the orchestra has lost sfumato"). Serious listening attempt promised.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Well, thank you for making such a serious effort. I think you'll find a lot to enjoy in the 4th this time around (or at least I sincerely hope so). "Sfumato" wasn't the only thing the Berlin Phil lost after Karajan, but that's no excuse for chatting through the Beethoven 4 introduction, even if Rattle was conducting.

[@vinylarchaeologist]

With that tam-tam stick behind you your head looks like a musical note. How fitting 😊 Thank you for all these great videos, Mr. Hurwitz.

[@marcelobriones6551]

PS: Beethoven's 4th with Bernstein/New York is also excellent.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, it is.

[@carlosshosta9040]

The Vienna Philharmonic is the ideal ensemble for this work. I prefer Bernstein´s but Böhm´s is also amazing.

[@hbicht5051]

I always thought that the scherzo sounded weird and the finale sounded kind of light-weight, especially after that sublime slow movement. Turns out I've been mostly listening to period or period-style performances that play those movements very quickly. If you really take the "ma non troppo" seriously (like Böhm), the finale makes much more sense. Also I never noticed that bassline in the scherzo before lol.

[@shawnhampton8503]

I was listening to my Böhm Beethoven box the other day and had forgotten that it has overtures included. But there is an interloper!!! The Leonore III is NOT played by the Vienna Phil but is an older recording with the Staatskapelle Dresden. DG scammed us. hahah. I have the single disc of the Böhm 6th and it has that same overture paired with it. The times match exactly. The box set does not give The SD orchestra credits.... just lumps it in with the rest as Vienna Phil. I am always fascinated by recording venues... interestingly the 9th in the Böhm box is not recorded in the Musikverein but in some venue I have never heard of... not Musikverein, Sofiensaal or the Konzerthaus Wien.

[@ralphbruce1174]

William Steinberg has driving me crazy in this symphony,

[@davidmeyer3565]

The òpening of the 4th is indeed wonderful, nothing like it at the time in symphony. But doesn't it perhaps remind you of Haydn's 'representation of chaos' at the beginning of the Creation.?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, not at all.

[@Ludwig55555]

Dave, did you hear the remastered? Karajan 2014 1963 cycle the third and fourth symphonies on the same CD to me it's obvious which one is better it's the Eroica.

[@chrismoule7242]

Ah Donald Tovey. What do you think about his assertion that there is a superfluous extra bar at the end of the 1st movement?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't think about it at all.

[@tanaraci92]

Teşekkürler.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you!

[@mostresticator5]

I agree the Bohm is the best 4th. There's a passage, idea, theme, call it what you will, around the 8 minute mark of this symphony that he uses in the Violin Concerto intro, which happens to be Op 61 composed in 1806 like the 4th Symphony, op 60. See if you can hear it :)

[@williamwhittle216]

I have the Kletzki box, and have enjoyed it very much; I just find the sonics on the bright and thin side, but not detrimental to meaningful listening.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I think it sounds fine.

[@saltyfellow]

I adore the basses! So powerful and yet so defined... it takes you on the "Big Ride " immediately

[@micolsen9824]

Agreed.

[@s.k.angyal3768]

Karl Böhm it is, I agree 100%

[@classicalperformances8777]

How right you were about the flutes. Cherubini said ,the only thing worse than a flute in an orchestra are 2 flutes in an orchestra. But Beethoven worshiped Cherubini. Any reviews on him?

[@gyulahunyor8267]

Thanks David, informative and passionate as usual! One question: what do you think about the live Böhm/VPO version on Orfeo from Salzburg Festival coupled with a smoking Schumann 4th? Recently I developed a fairly strong sympathy towards the Kubelik/Israel PO version on DG too.

[@murraylow4523]

I’m not Dave but after watching this, this was the performance in my collection I thought about! That whole disc is really worth hearing :)

[@murraylow4523]

That Bohm disc, I mean...

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You're not? Huh.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Actually, I prefer the studio recording, although it's very good.

[@lmanna]

I have to confess that I always thought the opposite .. that happy music was easy until I listened to Haydn last Symphonies which almost had no equal in the "Happy music" repertoire. Ultimately a composer transmits his feelings ... and if he's sad most of the time (like Beethoven or Schubert) well you get sad music. Haydn who had no economic worries sounds much happier ... there's room for both in the Human Spectrum.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Beethoven was no sad most of the time. Neither was Schubert. The vast majority of their music is overwhelmingly cheerful. Where on earth did you get those ideas?

[@alanfekete1545]

How do the different Jochum recordings compare to one another? Are the others significantly different?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I leave it to you to discover them (don't worry, they're all good).

[@williamwhittle216]

Reheard the Kletzki and retract what I said it being too bright. Did my hearing aids have a senior moment?! Sound is ok.

[@micolsen9824]

I agreed with your first assessment. Sure, it sounds good but I've heard fuller recordings too.

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

As to rithm and overall consistency, I rather pick up Scuricht/Paris Conservatoire interprétation of the 4th

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Why not?

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I awe you the discovery of Schuricht as Beethoven's interpreter!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@michelangelomulieri5134 I'm so glad you are enjoying him. He is wonderful with the Paris orchestra.

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

@@DavesClassicalGuide there's an highly regarded Italian critic who recently wrote an essay about Beethoven's symphonies. As to the origins of the so-called Beethoven sound he points out what you already said in your video about the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra and its direct link to those origins!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@michelangelomulieri5134 Well there you go. Great minds think alike!

[@weewee2169]

4 and 6 gang deeeeefinitely better than eroica by far

[@chadweirick67]

Oh come on this was posted only 3 minutes ago and already nine views I'm never going to be the first viewer I keep trying lol